Looking for a convertible top repair shop in Northern California.....

Anyone know of any good reputable / reasonably price shop that can take out the plastic window and put in the glass window? My rear has some fading and seems like a little piece of the seem is coming apart as well. Thanks in advance.

Hey guys! Just wanted to give you all a bit of an update on some of the things we have been working on over the past few weeks. This past week we have been playing around with our shop 997.2TT trying to find the limits of the stock low pressure fuel system as well as some alternative fuel testing utilizing some of our more recent fuel table discoveries. Many of the discoveries for the 997.2TT will relate to the 991TT in some form or another as well. Both in hardware limitations as well as advancement of Cobb software and the Accessport. We started messing with ethanol blends a bit while we were at Pikes Peak in the 991TT. We found we were easily capable of running a blend of 20%-30% Ethanol without issue. We took all the data we collected from the Pikes Peak winning 991TT as well as the 2nd place 997.2TT and applied some of it towards our fuel system testing here in SoCal on our 997.2TT. Buckle up if you like data because here comes a bunch of it! We at Cobb are always striving to make our product better and supply information to the masses in an effort to help advance the aftermarket as a whole in any way possible. We are in the business to make cars fast and we do a great job at it! But we wouldn't be where we are today with out the aftermarket hard part manufacturers, so please take this data for what it is and use it how you like! Stock Fuel System Setup: Here is a quick breakdown of how the fuel system operates in stock form. The 997.2TT is a returnless fuel system with two sucking jet pumps which pull fuel from the bottom of the tank and deliver them to the upper fuel pump chamber where the low pressure fuel feed pumps live. The two low pressure feed pumps are controlled individually. Pump number one is controlled by PMW from the DME/ECU to a fuel pump controller. This fuel pump controller regulates pump number one based on fuel demand sent from the ECU(between 6-14 amps based on voltage control). Pump number two is either full on or full off without regulation from a fuel pump controller. Pump two is simply switched on when the ecu requests fuel flow of more than 110 liters per hour(lph). Below is the wiring diagram for the relays, pumps, and low pressure fuel pump control unit. Both of these pumps go directly into the fuel pressure regulator which is also contained at the top of the upper fuel pump chamber. The stock regulator is strictly mechanical and is a 5bar(72.5psi) regulator. Once this fuel pressure is achieved the excess fuel is dumped back into the chamber. Another thing to note is that the regulator does not have a vacuum reference like the 996TT or 997.1TT to raise and lower fuel pressure. It simply wants to keep 72.5psi at all times. Testing Low Pressure Fuel Flow: We began by testing the low pressure fuel system flow in liters per hour. I wanted to know exactly how much fuel would flow from the stock low pressure pumps through the stock pressure regulator and fuel lines, which would ultimately end up at the feed for the cam driven high pressure pump. This was done assuming we wanted to know what the output is when the pumps are under full load, meaning both low pressure pumps running at 14 volts. To do this we wired up the two pumps directly to the battery along with a Snap On battery tender to maintain 14.2 volts. I disconnected the low pressure fuel feed line in the back near the high pressure pump and fed that into a measured receptacle. We found that under full load the low pressure fuel system was delivering ~410lph to the high pressure pump (2.50gal of fuel was delivered in 82.75 seconds or 411.70lph) We also tested the flow of a single pump independent of the entire system. Our friends at BBi supplied the stock pump so we didn't have to Frankenstein our basket to remove it. Tested at 14.2v the uninhibited single pump flowed ~235lph(236.95lph), at 11.5v the pump flowed ~210lph(209.65lph). Assuming both pumps are identical based on the part number we can deduce that two uninhibited pumps would produce ~470lph at 14.2v. However, since they have to pump fuel through the fuel filter, pressure regulator (72.5psi) and the remaining fuel line to the rear of the car there is a flow loss of ~60lph. Remember the measured output was ~410lph in the previous test. Calculating Max Wheel Power Stock Low Pressure Fuel Supply Can Support: Math gets a bit intense here so if you’re here just for results please skip to the bottom of this section for bolded results. And for brevity we will do this example just for gasoline. There is a log here containing all of the data used in this section. For this we need to know the following: specific gravity of gasoline, max lbs/hour flow of the low pressure system on gasoline, airflow, AFR, and horsepower. All of which can be deduced from our test above, datalogs, and the correlating dyno plot. There are alternate routes, units, etc to achieve the same results this is just how I chose to do it. To begin we will want to calculate the fuel mass being injected per unit of time. To do this we can use our logged parameter of air mass and AFR to find fuel mass. Porsche 997.2TT measures air mass in mg/stroke per bank so we will first need to multiply that value by 2(2 banks) and then convert that into g/sec. That will give you your mass of air in g/s at one particular point. You can now use that air mass along with actual AFR to calculate fuel mass. Since AFR is simply the ratio of air to fuel this is a rather simple. I also took the average AFR of both banks Now that we have calculated our fuel mass in g/s we will convert this to lbs/hr. Using this and wheel horsepower we can now calculate the specific fuel consumption (SFC) With SFC we can almost calculate the max WHP that can be made from from the stock low pressure pumps at 14.2v, but first we will need to convert the lph flow of the pump test above into lbs/hr using gasoline. This is where the specific gravity comes into play. Specific gravity is a ratio of the density of one substance compared to a control substance. That control substance is generally always water. We will use a specific gravity of .74 for gasoline and assume that 1 gallon of water weighs 8.334lbs. From this we can find the weight of gasoline per gallon. We will also convert liters to gallons at this stage, because our initial test was performed in LPH. Finally we have everything we need to determine the max wheel horsepower the low pressure pumps can support. Using SFC we calculated from before and substituting in the lbs per hour of gas the pumps flow we can find that max WHP. What does this all look like with actual values? Let us choose one RPM to work with from the datalog . I will choose 5920 RPM. At that RPM all these values are gathered: Air mass Calculation: Fuel Mass Calculation: Then to lbs/hr: Calculate SFC – Keep in mind this SFC will be a bit different as we are using it for wheel HP and not crank HP. It will also likely change some under more load. Converting LPH to lbs/hr for the low pressure pumps for gasoline: Finally using the calculated SFC and lbs/hr to find max WHP: In that example using our measurements obtained from datalogs, dyno runs, and fuel pump testing we have concluded that at 4920RPM the low pressure fuel system should be able to support 785.9WHP at 14.2 volts. The datalog here includes data collected from the car as well as dyno data that has been ported over and many custom calculations I made in this process. Using all of the data gathered it is theoretical that the stock 997.2 low pressure fuel system at 14.2v can support 762.3whp at 6496RPM. This however doesn’t mean the car is capable of making that on the stock fuel system. The voltage to the pumps supplied by the relays has not yet been verified. There are also many factors that are yet to be tested with the high pressure system which is exponentially more difficult to test. Empirical Fuel Pressure Testing of the Low Pressure Fuel System: While we had the car on the dyno we hooked up our fuel pressure sensor to the low pressure side of the fuel system in order to gather real world data on the operation of the low side pumps and the impact on fuel pressure under heavy load. Here is a data log with low side fuel pressure added. RPM(Top White), MAP(Top Red), Predicited Air Mass (Green), Low Side Fuel Pressure(Yellow), High Side Fuel Pressure Actual(Bottom Red), High Side Fuel Pressure Target(Bottom White) I have also uploaded this log here at datazap for you guys to play with if you wish. You can see the low side fuel pressure is steadily dropping from the onset of boost to redline. The pressure starts out at the base of ~72.5psi but as the load increase and fuel demand rises the low side fuel pressure falls. Since we found out in the last section that the low side can supply enough fuel for significantly more power at 14.2v it leads me to believe that the voltage reaching the pumps via the relays and ECU control is substantially less than that. We will conduct more testing with the pumps hardwired and post up further results as well as using an external source to datalog the voltage at the pumps in stock form to see what they are getting. Ethanol Testing Mitch has recently uncovered and added some very useful tables in the ecu to make easy ethanol mixture calibrations. These tables will remain internal until they have been thoroughly tested. But for the most part they allow us to adjust fuel based on a constant for stoichiometric AFR. What this simply does is allows us to change the base stoich for the fuel we are using. Stoich for Gasoline is approx.14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel. Ethanol is 9 parts fuel to 1 part air. Knowing this we can approximate the stoich ratio of any blends in between. For instance E40 would be 14.7(.6) x 9(.4) = 12.42 parts fuel to 1 part air. Using this we can make broad adjustments based on ethanol percentages. We also now have full control over fuel corrections which we use to fine tune the mixture after the broad stoich adjustment has been made. So far we have successfully tested many mixtures up to E55! With good gains throughout on a 100% bone stock car! Below is a dyno chart comparing our OTS Stage1 tune on ACN91 to one of our E40 test. We will continue our testing with ethanol as well as some further low pressure fuel pump testing in the upcoming weeks so I will edit this post as new discoveries are made! Thank you all for reading and hopefully you all got something out of this! As always if you need anything at all do not hesitate to contact myself, [email removed] , Mitch [email removed] , or our expert group [email removed] . We are always here for you! Thanks again! -Jon Hebbeln - Cobb Tuning Porsche R&D Calibrator

bascom trim in santa clara replaced my rear window - not with glass, but with another plastic one (2000 cab). they did try to sell me the glass window but i didn't want it as the top is never up. they did a good job on mine. i recall that pricing seemed reasonable (for a porsche....) www.bascomtrim.com

Nice work. you answered one of my main questions. Now the rods?

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Quote: Mines also a 00 Cab. Is there anyway you can double check what they charged you? Ill give them a call later today and see what they quote me but would like to compare what they charged you with what they quote me if different.

Drooling over this data! We have gathered a bunch of this as well and its great to see the data be validated elsewhere but most importantly we can't wait to see the new fuel tables opened up! With the low pressure side sorted with something as simple as dropping dual Walbro 455s the low pressure side will quickly become a non issue and all eyes will be on the high pressure pump. It seems direct injection setups almost always end up running a fixed low pressure side regulator and it seems 5bar is the norm on so many motors from different manufacturers. Looking forward to trying the new fuel tables! Dzenno@PTF

you cannot switch from plastic to glass without changing the fabric top itself. bascom does a lot of pimp my ride lexus and they are all about money instead of advising on what's best for you. i would recommend palo alto upholstery. gahr makes a top that works with glass window. if your top is bad, upgrade. otherwise, just get a plastic window replacement.

Lots of good data Jon did a great job with this! We have lots more coming so stay tuned! -Mitch

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Quote: Thanks for the heads up. This is why I like posting as people have different opinions and different shop recommendations and good to know that Bascom is more about money than anything as I would like to stay away from those type of shops. I may still call and see what they say though. Anyways as for the top mine is in mint condition. Its just the plastic window that is driving me nuts. If the entire top has to get replaced due to get the glass than Ill do as you stated and just replace the plastic window with another plastic! As stated thanks again for the heads up!

This is amazing that you guys have been working on this and are sharing the data. It's great to know that you didn't just come out with the initial tuning solution then move on. I'm super pumped and can't wait to see what my car can do once this is all figured out and a fueling solution is complete. Kudos to Cobb for the dedication and support

I did change my plastic window for $500 two years ago in shop recommended by newport porsche - probably not the cheapest.

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Quote: +1 Great work!

I think if you change to the glass,the window is tiny! I replaced mine with a tinted plastic window. Got it done for $400 and it looks amazing.

I must have been asleep during that class at school , way above my head i'm sure its all great intell for the .2 guys

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Quote: Whats the shop name? Im assuming this is so cal? Quote: Do you have any pictures of it tinted? Dont think Ive ever seen a plastic that was tinted so very curious on looks. What shop ended up doing this for you?

I just re read this (without a hangover) and realized it was a bigger announcement than I originally thought. So much good info and important R&D here. Woot! Can't wait If you guys need any fuel testing (actual specific gravities of diff fuels including race fuels, ethanol testing, octanes, etc) let me know. May be able to save you reverse engineering time

I will take a picture tomorrow. It was a shop in Jersey.

subscribed! Thanks Mitch and company...so gracious for your selfless sharing

Can't remember. In newport beach. I'd call the newport dealer.

Wow! Incredible amount of data and information. I share TWTURBO's sentiments, I must not have breastfed long enough because that is some confusing data, haha.

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Quote: I'm curious as to the shop name also. I got the name Everlast in NJ as a shop that would replace for $350 and when I called they said $700. Every shop I talked to about the window repair said the same thing - the top needs to come off to sew in a window and thats lots of labor. The Everlast guy also explained that the cables are generally worn and some other plastic triangular piece inside the top that keeps it from sliding sideto side sometimes needs to be replaced. I finally gave up and have a new top being installed by a local LI shop next week - A5 German w/ plastic window $1,200.

Bump for updates since its 's been a few months. Any more testing done? Is the project still alive? If I'm using a 125 high octane unleaded and unoxygenated gasoline based fuel with a stoich of 14.3 and a specific gravity of 0.764, and I give you a good 10-15% margin of safety to your theoretical calculation of max whp, do you foresee any problems to make ~650-700whp on the stock fuel system on the current version of Cobb? The stoich is close enough to gas that I don't need your new tables the correct for stoich yeah?

Not true many times. The $500 quotes that people get, do not involve removing the top. Like mine. They told me no need. And they did not. It might be easier for the fellow performing the repair and also involves more labor. Win win for them.

Cobb: 1) Do you still own the 997.2 2) Are you still doing R&D in it or are you leaving it to other Cobb protuners at this stage? 3) Any plans for future Cobb updates to the software? 4) Any plans to figure out the TCM and how that works?

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Quote: Can't beat a new top anyway

Yes we still own the 997.2 Turbo. We are still doing R&D. We won't stop adding updates to software. Not sure on the TCM just yet but this year will be good for the Porsche platform. -Mitch

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Quote: Do you know exactly how they replaced the window without taking off the top?I am told that some aftermarket tops have an easy to replace window. With the heat pressed OEM version/window, other than hand sewing I can't think of another option. It's too late for me but if there's some sort of one sided sewing appartus everyone would use it.

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Quote: Awesome!!

Got the new top this week. They did a nice job...$1,200

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Quote: Has this been done yet? Quote: Has this been released yet so protuners can make broad changes to stoich? Lastly, any testing on the high pressure side?

Nice!