996 v 997 turbo compared? - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Just realised I missed the 996 v 997 turbo comparison article in Total 911 last month and the new issue is now on the shelves. What was the outcome?

Buy the 997. The 996 felt comparatively old and less exciting to drive. The 997 they test drove was a tip whereas the 996 was a manual - to add insult to injury.

Each to their own, no?

Two mags out at the same time with the same test more or less. Same conclusion. But that's only part of the story.

EGTE said: Each to their own, no? What he said, plus, I can't afford a 997 so I'm stuck with my 996...............Not a bad place to be "stuck".

Hi all, ive owned my 996 turbo for 13 years and now it has a 9e30 tune. I also currently own a 997 turbo S cabriolet. Whilst the 997 is a very impressive bit of kit, especially the PDK and launch control and ceramics, it just does not feel as connected as the 996. I will be keeping the OLD 996 and selling the 997.

If money isn't a problem (difference today is even less), just go 997, better at everything, looks better (I like 996 look tho, but interior is just another class altogether), faster, better hardware, 997 aged A LOT better than the 996. The 997 Turbo is just everything the 996 Turbo is, but a lot better/improved. If tiptronic, you have to have a tiptronic tune, it becomes a LOT better, otherwise, it's horrible. MT would be the ideal one.

I tried both and they are both great cars. Some claim the 996 is more feelsome but neither is a scalpel sharp 911 and I didn't feel much difference. The 997 is slightly quicker but both are rapid. I paid 10k extra for a 997 3 years ago and don't regret it - I prefer the exterior looks, interior and seats - now the gap has narrowed the decision would be easier. Both great cars, try both and get a manual coupe

Other than the obvious interior differences, I found the 996T more involving than the 997T. Over 50,000 miles in my 997T and to get the most of out it you have to wind it up to silly speeds - certainly with the factory suspension to get that 911 involvement.

Had both and the 996 was the more fun for me.

franki68 said: Had both and the 996 was the more fun for me. The 996 turbo was a step-change; it really pushed the 911 into super car territory. The car gained a lot of clever tech, much from the 959 project, and prodigal performance. Even today a 996 turbo will happily hang out with the latest 4WD sports cars like the R8. The 997 version was a definite improvement, but more of an evolution than step change. A lot of the personal preference will come from whether you prefer the 997 interior or the definitely more retro 996 version. Both have merits, but having gone from 996 turbo to 997 GT3, I think the older one mo special. Just my take. Yes, steering feel and handling can be a bit inert on both cars, but IMHO the modern turbo is too quickly dismissed as a mere Grand Tourer when, in fact, it's a very clever jack of many trades.

The journal's are not the judges. A pointless exercise as the 996 was origionally slammed by the very same mags that are now praising its qualities. Simply because the rising prices lifts all boats. As most the specialist porch mags are on the buy anything now and sell at a huge profit in 5 years. As most of us know, the yearly cost of this investment can often outweigh the gains . I bought a Panamera, because its better than a 996 or 997. Not faster, not for the track, its just all round better. I still hate the 996, its an ugly pug, is unreliable and will not sustain any value once there is an economic downturn. The 997 values will outperform the 996 in 15 years.

We have just sold our 996 Turbo S which was used daily,and replaced it with a 997 Gen 2 Turbo,which again will be used daily.Both are brilliant in my eyes, and so usable. Nothing else comes close. Cheers

Money wise, I would bet on the 996 to be a better long term investment.

E34-3.2 said: Money wise, I would bet on the 996 to be a better long term investment. I think the 997.1 i the ultimate interpretation of that platform. Styling wise i think the 996 is a very interesting piece of design. Was looking at a 993 turbo sitting next a 996 turbo a few days ago and whilst the 993 is one of my all time fave 911 especially in turbo form the 996 easily held its own in terms of road presence. there's no wrong answer here.

kevs 172 said: We have just sold our 996 Turbo S which was used daily,and replaced it with a 997 Gen 2 Turbo,which again will be used daily.Both are brilliant in my eyes, and so usable. Nothing else comes close. Cheers how did they work out as a daily driver I have a 996GT2 and a TVR supercharded griff both are weekend cars I,ll be retiring in 2 years to UK (living working abroad) and was contemplating a 996 or a 997 as a daily how were the running costs. I willnt have endless amounts cash. cheers .

Isn't this a daft question? If Porsche had not improved and evolved the 996 into the better 997 they would be in trouble! It's a bit like saying a Turbo is everything a 911 should be It's not it's just one take on the theme Any turbo is great Any turbo has its downsides And ditto I would say for every other 911 derivative of every model since 1964 Money no object I'd have one of maybe half a dozen different variants But it ain't so my 996 Turbo will suffice and very nicely too

catsey said: kevs 172 said: We have just sold our 996 Turbo S which was used daily,and replaced it with a 997 Gen 2 Turbo,which again will be used daily.Both are brilliant in my eyes, and so usable. Nothing else comes close. Cheers how did they work out as a daily driver I have a 996GT2 and a TVR supercharded griff both are weekend cars I,ll be retiring in 2 years to UK (living working abroad) and was contemplating a 996 or a 997 as a daily how were the running costs. I willnt have endless amounts cash. cheers . They are great as a daily driver. The 996 was just usual running costs,pcm unit played up every now and again but on the whole very reliable.Computer said 18 mpg so not bad considering it did the school runs everyday. Only had the Gen 2 997 for two weeks but so far enjoying it,the other half reckons the 996 was better to drive because it was a manual though! Cheers

huggies said: Isn't this a daft question? No, its a pretty sensible one, given they are roughly the same price and if someone is looking to buy either they might canvas opinions of comparative strengths from those who owned them. It's what this place is mostly about!

Adam B said: huggies said: Isn't this a daft question? No, its a pretty sensible one, given they are roughly the same price and if someone is looking to buy either they might canvas opinions of comparative strengths from those who owned them. It's what this place is mostly about! True and, lest we forget, whilst it is certainly not the case with the 911 turbo, there are many cases of cars 'going bad' as they evolve; the M3 being a prime example.

As a 996T owner I really like my car. I happen to think it looks better - agreed the interior in a 997 is rather higher spec, but the 996 has some charm. My car is an '04 registered manual with 77,000 miles. Would I swap it for an '06 registered 997T with the same miles? Only if the provenance was exemplary. I would not remotely pay the £10-15K overs being asked for presently for the same. The 997 is ultimately a 'better' car but, as said earlier, only in as much as all new cars are better. For context, I am a bit of a 996 fan and I would rather go on a trip over the Alps in a 996 3.4 Carrera than a 993 so I am not all about harking back to the past.

996 turbo X50 and turbo S both close the gap with 450 to the 997 turbo's 480bhp. Personally I think my 996 has a cleaner shape and far better wheels than the overly fussy 997. No right or wrongs both great cars.

kevs 172 said: They are great as a daily driver. The 996 was just usual running costs,pcm unit played up every now and again but on the whole very reliable.Computer said 18 mpg so not bad considering it did the school runs everyday. Only had the Gen 2 997 for two weeks but so far enjoying it,the other half reckons the 996 was better to drive because it was a manual though! Cheers well thanks for that information. james

luigisayshello said: If money isn't a problem (difference today is even less), just go 997, better at everything, looks better (I like 996 look tho, but interior is just another class altogether), faster, better hardware, 997 aged A LOT better than the 996. The 997 Turbo is just everything the 996 Turbo is, but a lot better/improved. If tiptronic, you have to have a tiptronic tune, it becomes a LOT better, otherwise, it's horrible. MT would be the ideal one. Guess we are all different - I much prefer the 996 interior and exterior to the 997, esp 997.1

Digga said: A lot of the personal preference will come from whether you prefer the 997 interior or the definitely more retro 996 version. Both have merits, but having gone from 996 turbo to 997 GT3, I think the older one mo special. Interesting as I think the exterior looks are more divisive - for me the the classic lights of the 997 were a big improvement and the big grilles were ungainly on the 996 such that I was only considering black or dark grey 996 turbos as they hide it better. Interior wise neither are great compared to a a £30k Audi

Adam B said: Interesting as I think the exterior looks are more divisive - for me the the classic lights of the 997 were a big improvement and the big grilles were ungainly on the 996 such that I was only considering black or dark grey 996 turbos as they hide it better. Interior wise neither are great compared to a a £30k Audi Are you comparing to a new Audi rather than a 15 year old one?

I had a 996 Turbo S. I never really bonded with the car so might be a bit biased against it but I thought the 997 Turbo seemed a bit better looking. Not a bad choice to have tho.

chriscoates81 said: Are you comparing to a new Audi rather than a 15 year old one? my 2008 997 turbo to an Audi of similar age yes - I had a 2007 RS4 - the plastics were much better in the Audi

Adam B said: Digga said: A lot of the personal preference will come from whether you prefer the 997 interior or the definitely more retro 996 version. Both have merits, but having gone from 996 turbo to 997 GT3, I think the older one mo special. Interesting as I think the exterior looks are more divisive - for me the the classic lights of the 997 were a big improvement and the big grilles were ungainly on the 996 such that I was only considering black or dark grey 996 turbos as they hide it better. Interior wise neither are great compared to a a £30k Audi I think of all the 996 variants, the turbo and the C4S wear the 'fried egg' headlights the best. Plus, they got the upgraded, clear lens versions which look better anyway. Obviously this is subjective, but to me, hands-down the 996 turbo is far, far better looking on the exterior to the 997 variant. Whereas, hands-down, the opposite is true on the GT3s, mainly because of the wide-body on the later car, plus a bit better rear bumper styling. All personal preference of course!

Digga said: All personal preference of course! yep totally, both great cars my only major criticism of both is the excessive tyre roar

996 Interior wasn’t put together well. Generally a bit rattly. Issues sorted on 997 imo. Gen 2 997 Turbo in a different stratosphere speed wise to 996 Turbo. My taste says 997 is better looking car. Edited by Carlson W6 on Monday 11th December 12:32

Adam B said: Digga said: All personal preference of course! yep totally, both great cars my only major criticism of both is the excessive tyre roar I agree; there should be more exhaust and induction audible in-car, so you can't hear the tyres so much.

Digga said: I think of all the 996 variants, the turbo and the C4S wear the 'fried egg' headlights the best. Plus, they got the upgraded, clear lens versions which look better anyway. Obviously this is subjective, but to me, hands-down the 996 turbo is far, far better looking on the exterior to the 997 variant. Whereas, hands-down, the opposite is true on the GT3s, mainly because of the wide-body on the later car, plus a bit better rear bumper styling. All personal preference of course! I’m the opposite way round now! I have a 997 Gen 2 Turbo and a 996.1 Gt3 Clubsport,they are all good and you are right saying it’s just personal choice. Cheers

kevs 172 said: Digga said: I think of all the 996 variants, the turbo and the C4S wear the 'fried egg' headlights the best. Plus, they got the upgraded, clear lens versions which look better anyway. Obviously this is subjective, but to me, hands-down the 996 turbo is far, far better looking on the exterior to the 997 variant. Whereas, hands-down, the opposite is true on the GT3s, mainly because of the wide-body on the later car, plus a bit better rear bumper styling. All personal preference of course! I’m the opposite way round now! I have a 997 Gen 2 Turbo and a 996.1 Gt3 Clubsport,they are all good and you are right saying it’s just personal choice. Cheers It would be a boring world if we all saw things in the same way! That said, without doubt, they are all excellent cars; 996 and 997, turbo and GT3. There isn't really a 'wrong' answer IMHO.

Digga said: There isn't really a 'wrong' answer IMHO. many wrong answers IMHO ruffled leather savannah tiptronic wood interior trim leaving the rear centre console in cheap plastic not ticking sports chrono in the 997 and I'm spent

Adam B said: many wrong answers IMHO ruffled leather savannah tiptronic wood interior trim leaving the rear centre console in cheap plastic not ticking sports chrono in the 997 and I'm spent My first 911 (a 996 c2) was Savannah with ocean blue exterior. I quite liked the contrast (not a fan of black and black) but I'd say terracotta is a no go. Not sure if tartan was an option on 996's or whether it (hopefully) died off with air-cooled cars.

chriscoates81 said: Not sure if tartan was an option on 996's or whether it (hopefully) died off with air-cooled cars. tartan not an option for 996 or 997 but is an exclusive option on 991 limited edition models like 50th anniversary edition - back in vogue

Adam B said: many wrong answers IMHO ruffled leather savannah tiptronic wood interior trim leaving the rear centre console in cheap plastic not ticking sports chrono in the 997 and I'm spent Okay! I guess, adding to that, I'd say some of the fad for silver interior bits went a bit far in 996 turbos.

Carlson W6 said: 996 Interior wasn’t put together well. Generally a bit rattly. Issues sorted on 997 imo. Gen 2 997 Turbo in a different stratosphere speed wise to 996 Turbo. My taste says 997 is better looking car. Edited by Carlson W6 on Monday 11th December 12:32 I had more rattles from the interior of my 997.1 C4S than I do from my 996.2 gt3

steven y said: Carlson W6 said: 996 Interior wasn’t put together well. Generally a bit rattly. Issues sorted on 997 imo. Gen 2 997 Turbo in a different stratosphere speed wise to 996 Turbo. My taste says 997 is better looking car. Edited by Carlson W6 on Monday 11th December 12:32 I had more rattles from the interior of my 997.1 C4S than I do from my 996.2 gt3 Yep no rattles on my 996 turbo

I drove a 996 Turbo back to back with my 997 GTS about a year ago...both manual cars and pretty similar in power (bhp at least) output. The owner of the 996 who'd owned it for a few years and I both came to the same conclusion.....he went off to look for a 997 GTS. Turbo clearly had more grunt but the GTS was just a much nicer car to drive...controls were all much nicer (especially the steering as my car was RWD)...and it just felt much more fun when the roads got interesting.

hopefully we can get back on topic and compare the 2 turbo models comparing a 4wd turbo with a 2wd n/a 911 is a different topic

Based on looks I just don't see the 997.1 as worth paying more for. I can't comment on the driving experience, but i'm happy enough with what I have and don't see the 997.1 as a performance upgrade (on paper). a 997.2 PDK is a different proposition entirely.

Andrew Frankels view on it BUYING GUIDE: 40 YEARS OF THE PORSCHE 911 TURBO Panzer Porsche is unstoppably naughty at 40 THERE ARE sports cars and there is the Porsche 911 Turbo. Regarded by many as the ultimate incarnation of the German company’s flagship car, the Turbo is the product of years of refining, tweaking and burnishing by the engineers in Stuttgart. In its lifetime, it has attracted followers like no other car, sometimes called “Porsche bores” because of their obsession with minutiae. This week, Porsche is celebrating the Turbo’s 40th birthday with a line-up at the Goodwood Festival of Speed next weekend. It is a cause for celebration, but the anniversary has also divided Porsche lovers over which model is best. It is an argument that will never be resolved. It’s impossible to measure the aesthetic appeal of the 930 series Turbo against the engineering excellence of the 997. Instead, we’ve asked self-confessed Porsche bore and Turbo owner Andrew Frankel to nominate his favourites and explain why. One point on which all Porsche owners agree: these are not the easiest cars to drive. They demand patience, skill and courage, qualities that most modern point-and-shoot sports cars don’t. The Turbo feels alive and can bite back. Some drivers swear it is the most frightening car they have driven. One point on which all Porsche owners agree: these are not the easiest cars to drive. The Turbo feels alive and can bite back. When Porsche unveiled the Turbo at the Paris motor show in 1974, the oil crisis meant that car makers were for the first time beginning to worry about fuel economy. In Germany there was a speed limit of 60mph to conserve fuel. But it seemed as if no one at Porsche was paying attention: with 260bhp and a top speed of 180mph, the 911 Turbo didn’t so much rewrite the rule book as tear it up and blow it out of its exhaust. When it went on sale in 1975 it was the world’s fastest production car — the German company’s first proper supercar — described by one dumbstruck American reviewer as “a Panzer among Porsches, a street racer that will guarantee you a place at the top of the pecking order in a way that not even a Ferrari or Lamborghini can”. Steve McQueen bought one immediately. Since then, its instantly recognisable bodyshell has been altered but never changed wholesale. Its layout with the engine in the back shouldn’t work but somehow does. Some versions have been better than others but all have been unmistakeably Turbos, all of them “Panzer Porsches”. Happy birthday, and remember: life begins at 40. Search for and buy a Porsche 911 on driving.co.uk THE CLASSIC: ORIGINAL PORSCHE 930 TURBO (1975-89) Porsche 930 Turbo How frightening? At speed in the wet, completely terrifying Cost today £40,000-£70,000 By modern standards, the first 911 Turbo was a pretty ropey car and if you want to understand just how in its infancy turbocharging was in the mid-1970s, there’s no better illustration than this. Below 3000rpm the car is so slow you’d think you’d broken it. Then, with a whoosh, the turbo cuts in and you’re holding on for dear life, desperately grabbing another gear, only for it to turn into Del Boy’s three-wheeler again. The car’s powerband is so narrow it would be hard to keep it on the boil even if it had five gears like every other 911 of the era. But it doesn’t: because its gears had to be strengthened, there’s space in the box for only four. It will lock its brakes with hideous ease in the wet and if you try to drive it fast through some corners you’ll discover it prefers to go straight on or, if you tread on the brakes to slow it down, spin. Not for nothing was it quickly, and only half in jest, christened the Widowmaker. And yet the car has a malevolent magic about it. Learn how to drive it properly and conquering the challenge it presents can be immensely rewarding. It is also beautifully built. The best are post-1978 3.3-litre cars (with 300bhp rather than 260bhp) which, while faster, were slightly easier to drive. Price £14,479 (1974) Engine 3.3-litre Power 300bhp Acceleration 0-62mph: 6sec Top speed 180mph Used example: we found a 1989 model with 60,000 miles for £59,950 Has this car sold? Try a more general search for Porsche 911s to buy THE BARGAIN: PORSCHE 996 TURBO (2001-2005) Porsche 996 How frightening? For a 911 Turbo, arguably not quite frightening enough Cost today £18,000-£30,000 Think what £20,000 buys you today. A high-spec Ford Focus or a mid-spec Nissan Qashqai. Or it could buy you a 911 Turbo that, despite Porsche’s overly conservative claims at the time, would hit 60mph in less than 4 seconds and carry on to almost 190mph. The 996 generation is not just the best-value Turbo of all, but the best-value Porsche, full stop. Why? Because the standard 996 has a terrible reputation, not least for engine failure. But the 996 Turbo engine is different from that used in any other 996 save the GT3, and is based on a race unit so strong it powered Porsche to its most recent Le Mans victory in 1998. It has been unfairly judged for the sins of its sisters. The 996 Turbo is also one of the most dramatic-looking Turbos, with its vast front valance and slots behind the door to feed air to that racing motor. If it disappoints at all, it’s because it’s really not that scary. It was the first Turbo to be fitted with electronic stability control, and with soft suspension and four-wheel drive, it was more a businessman’s express than an all-out road warrior. Price £86,000 (2001) Engine 3.6-litre Power 420bhp Acceleration 0-62mph: 4.2sec Top speed 189mph Used example: we found a 2002 model with 89,500 miles for £24,9950 Has this car sold? Try a more general search for Porsche 911s to buy THE SCARIEST: 997 GT2 RS (2010-2011) Porsche 997 GT2 RS How frightening? Fairly, even when parked. Merciless if you get on the wrong side of it Cost today £180,000-£200,000 There were a few candidates for this spot, including the 993 GT2 of 1995 whose response to the throttle could be so savage it would spin you 180 degrees before you could say “opposite lock”. But if you believe frightening and thrilling are the closest of cousins, the GT2 RS offers the most of both. For 20 years Porsche has kept most of its Turbos tamed by making them quite heavy, providing them with four-wheel drive, and restricting their power to merely awesome rather than apocalyptic. But when its motor sport department was briefed to produce its take on the Turbo, it felt no such constraints. Out went the four-wheel drive and up went the power, all the way to 611bhp. And down went the weight. The effect was monstrous: a 911 that was damn near as quick to 100mph as a McLaren F1. Only the very skilled or extremely lucky stood a chance of controlling all that power, and for many the slower non-turbo GT3 RS was a far better and safer car. Price £164,107 (2010) Engine 3.6-litre Power 611bhp Acceleration 0-62mph: 3.5sec Top speed 205mph Used example: these are rare machines and none were in stock on driving.co.uk at the time of writing. Try a more general search for Porsche 911s to buy THE FAST ONE: CURRENT 991 TURBO Porsche 991 Turbo How frightening? When you realise how easily it will lose you your licence, very Cost today £120,598-£142,120 The only fear factor here derives from the fact the latest 911 Turbo is so startlingly fast. In S guise with 560bhp it’ll take you to 100mph in a fraction under 7 seconds, a reasonable time for a fast car to hit just 60mph. Yet this is also the most luxurious, hi-tech, cosseting and comforting Turbo of them all. Indeed if you weren’t so close to the ground you could forget that you’re in one of the most potent supercars on sale. Until of course the time comes to dispatch a row of dawdling traffic, at which point the car will accelerate as smoothly and almost as quickly as a Bugatti Veyron. But while this is unquestionably the most effortless 911 Turbo made, it is far from the most fun. In trying to make this the quickest and most sophisticated 911 Turbo, Porsche engineered out some of the involvement taken for granted in the previous-generation car. So if you’re more interested in having fun than going fast, save yourself a fortune and buy a standard 911 Carrera S. Price £142,140 Engine 3.6-litre Power 560hp Acceleration 0-62mph: 3.1sec Top speed 197mph Used example: we found a 2013 model with 1,848 miles for £138,900 Has this car sold? Try a more general search for Porsche 911s to buy THE ALL-ROUNDER: 997 TURBO (2006-2012) Porsche 997 Turbo How frightening? Just enough to keep you enthralled from start to finish Cost today £35,000-£95,000 All Turbos up until 2006 suffered from one of two problems. The early cars were all too wild and raw to make sense as ideal daily drivers while, post-1995, they gave up their hell-raising ways and came over all sensible, losing a lot of their original appeal on the way. The 997 is the car that finally struck the balance. It had all the safety features of the 996 but came with a lot more power (473bhp), much quicker throttle response, a far cleverer four-wheel-drive system and a chassis set up as much to make the car handle well as ride comfortably. It might not be the most attractive-looking 911 but this was the first Turbo you could drive all week, enjoying the civility and comfort it had to offer, and then take to a track day at the weekend and near enough guarantee you’d be the quickest thing out there. Prices start at almost double what you’d pay for the cheapest version of the 996 but here you get what you pay for. Price £97,840 (2006) Engine 3.6-litre Power 473bhp Acceleration 0-62mph: 3.9sec Top speed 192mph Used example: we found a 2006 model with 24,000 miles for £47,850 Has this car sold? Try a more general search for Porsche 911s to buy https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/buying-guide-...

This is what 9e can do with a manual 997.1 turbo on stock engine and gearbox https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uKOqutlLV8 Build thread on the above 997 turbo from ages ago https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=14... I'm not sure that its as easy to make a 996 turbo as fast as modern supercars as easily as a 997.1 or 997.2 turbo and turbos have always been about sledgehammer power and torque. The Huracan driver must have had a shock!

996 has same engine, no?

Same engine in 996 albeit the 997 mezger has a few small improvements. The difference is in the turbo technology. Whilst the 997 is harder to tune if you know how to tune them especially on race fuel or a mixture of meth and pump fuel the vid above speaks for itself. Huracan is a very fast car with automated gearbox. For a manual 997.1 turbo to whizz past the Huracan at 130mph like in the vid its probably producing something like 800bhp on a stock engine which the later gen 2 DFI can't do but it doesn't really need to. With a simple flash and exhaust 997 gen 2 turbo is a super car killer for about £5000 of mods. Literally as quick as a 720S!

EGTE said: 996 has same engine, no? As a base unit, they are the same; both use the block derived from the great GT1. As Desert Dragon says, the stock turbochargers on the 997 cars are much more trick. However, in theory there's pretty much no difference to what you can achive with either, given enough money to throw at the job! They care certainly more than capable of being tuned, very cheaply, to keep up with modern stuff - say 450 to 500bhp - and, as DD says, with further mods can really push the envelope.

anyone got a scan of the article available? think it is off the shelves now otherwise would buy a copy was in 9E this morning drooling over the 918 and spotted they had a copy - literally had only 10 seconds to skim and noticed a comment that the 997 was more "involving" as a result of the more modern suspension which was interesting, as the opposite is sometimes argued. Would like to read full article and get contaxt - I am sure it is all relative and hard to notice the for the average (eg me) driver.

A 65,000 mile 2009 997 Turbo PDK or a 2008 33,000 miles Tiptronic both for £65000 on the Porsche website. What would you choose for drivability and future desirability? An respected client of mine is asking and I know he reads these forums so would be interested in opinions. Minimum mileage to be added over 5-6 years. Thanks in advance. Don

Digga said: EGTE said: 996 has same engine, no? As a base unit, they are the same; both use the block derived from the great GT1. As Desert Dragon says, the stock turbochargers on the 997 cars are much more trick. However, in theory there's pretty much no difference to what you can achive with either, given enough money to throw at the job! They care certainly more than capable of being tuned, very cheaply, to keep up with modern stuff - say 450 to 500bhp - and, as DD says, with further mods can really push the envelope. Thanks for clarifying, Gents.

OhThatHurtAbit said: A 65,000 mile 2009 997 Turbo PDK or a 2008 33,000 miles Tiptronic both for £65000 on the Porsche website. What would you choose for drivability and future desirability? An respected client of mine is asking and I know he reads these forums so would be interested in opinions. Minimum mileage to be added over 5-6 years. Thanks in advance. Don Neither of them. Lokk at 911Virgin who have two 997 maunals on 42k miles one of which is a 1.5 spec. Both similar money to the ones you mention and a better buy. If it has to be auto then PDK not tiptronic.

They look expensive in comparison?

OhThatHurtAbit said: They look expensive in comparison? manual gen 1 997 turbos are fast becoming the holy grail of 911 turbos You cannot compare any kind of auto gearbox 911 turbo to them hence the premium. All turbos are now autos. You cannot buy a manual 911 turbo unless you go for a cooking model. Adam only wanting £60k for his is a relative bargain. I'd take his arm off if looking for a turbo

Budflicker said: OhThatHurtAbit said: A 65,000 mile 2009 997 Turbo PDK or a 2008 33,000 miles Tiptronic both for £65000 on the Porsche website. What would you choose for drivability and future desirability? An respected client of mine is asking and I know he reads these forums so would be interested in opinions. Minimum mileage to be added over 5-6 years. Thanks in advance. Don Neither of them. Lokk at 911Virgin who have two 997 maunals on 42k miles one of which is a 1.5 spec. Both similar money to the ones you mention and a better buy. If it has to be auto then PDK not tiptronic. unless you want to mod, tips can take huge power

Am I not right in saying you could buy manual 997.2T - perhaps not S versions? Merry Christmas!

Buy my 36k black/black 997 manual with short shift/sports chrono/sports adaptive seats/lots of leather interior bits for £60k, been pampered and serviced 4 times in last 8k miles since 9E PPIed it and I bought it Edited by Adam B on Monday 25th December 14:01

ScienceTeacher said: Am I not right in saying you could buy manual 997.2T - perhaps not S versions? Merry Christmas! yes (not S) - like rocking horse poo though even 997.1 turbos seem to be 70% tip 30% manual

I've had my 996 turbo for 8 yrs now. Truly great car. Fitted larger turbos and had a DMS ECU remap. Puts out over 560 BHP and 600 ft lb of torque. I think the 'fried eggs' headlights are cool, and make it unique in the Porsche range. After all, its the Pinkie Lai's original design, and that makes it historically important. Anyone who has a 996 Turbo, just the ECU remap will take it to 540 BHP, suggest Porsche Sports Exhaust to improve sound, and quick shift gear lever. I've driven my friends 997 Turbo (also manual) and to be honest I prefer the power delivery on mine. Both great cars though and nicer than the 991, 992 which are now just too large. James Martin (JayEmm) says that 'Speed Yellow' is his favourite, rare, if you can find one. Both are everyday supercars and fairly reliable. 996 Turbo prices will keep increasing over the next 10 yrs in my opinion - buy one NOW!! You wont regret it!

henry boxer said: I've had my 996 turbo for 8 yrs now. Truly great car. Fitted larger turbos and had a DMS ECU remap. Puts out over 560 BHP and 600 ft lb of torque. I think the 'fried eggs' headlights are cool, and make it unique in the Porsche range. After all, its the Pinkie Lai's original design, and that makes it historically important. Anyone who has a 996 Turbo, just the ECU remap will take it to 540 BHP, suggest Porsche Sports Exhaust to improve sound, and quick shift gear lever. I've driven my friends 997 Turbo (also manual) and to be honest I prefer the power delivery on mine. Both great cars though and nicer than the 991, 992 which are now just too large. James Martin (JayEmm) says that 'Speed Yellow' is his favourite, rare, if you can find one. Both are everyday supercars and fairly reliable. 996 Turbo prices will keep increasing over the next 10 yrs in my opinion - buy one NOW!! You wont regret it! I think you are nearly 3 years too late

Changing exhaust is a good mod but Porsche don’t do a sports exhaust for either the 996 or 987 turbo so would have to be aftermarket

Everyone seems to forget that the 996 and 996 turbo were iconic Pinky Lai designs that saved Porsche. The 997 Turbo, to my mind loses some of the simplicity and its lines are not as pure. In 10 yrs time people will be clamouring for the 996 Turbo, with its fried egg headlights! As far as interiors are concerned I again feel that the 996 works better, isnt as fussy. Its functional. Both great cars, but for me the 996 turbo is 'the one'.

Keep talking up your own book I am not sure Pinkie Lai means anything to anyone when it comes to 996 values I am afraid, but the looks will remain slightly marmite due to the break from tradition, which didn't last long

Just put deposit down on 996TT X50 tip, where would be best place for a tip tune and remap as you discuss. I am based near Wakefield, West York’s?

henry boxer said: Everyone seems to forget that the 996 and 996 turbo were iconic Pinky Lai designs that saved Porsche. The 997 Turbo, to my mind loses some of the simplicity and its lines are not as pure. In 10 yrs time people will be clamouring for the 996 Turbo, with its fried egg headlights! As far as interiors are concerned I again feel that the 996 works better, isnt as fussy. Its functional. Both great cars, but for me the 996 turbo is 'the one'. I also much prefer the 996 Turbo design - interior and exterior. I think the 997 (esp pre facelift) interior is aging really badly. 996 Turbo and GT2 are among my favorite modern 911 exteriors (as is the 996 C4S / so all the wide body 996 cars)

Both amazing. Drive

So many buttons and switches on 997.1 interior! I agree with above poster the 996 has a retro interior but the 997 is dated. I believe the 997.15 turbo has the interior of the 997.2 (and maybe the body too?) but retains the mezger of the 997.1 which in manual would be my perfect spec. Not that I'm in the market

996 turbo and 997 turbo above both circa 800PS and 850PS. Amazing how both give up that sort of power with relative ease with their mezgers Both 991.2 turbo s and 992 turbo s in pics had their doors blown off recently at VMAX over 1.2 miles much to owners surprise

I am currently pondering which 996/997tt to go for.. I enjoy taking things to pieces and making them better so the Mezger’s abilities have be all warm and fuzzy inside, 700hp at the wheels you say…

Pistonsquirter said: I am currently pondering which 996/997tt to go for.. I enjoy taking things to pieces and making them better so the Mezger’s abilities have be all warm and fuzzy inside, 700hp at the wheels you say… I suppose if you're going to chuck away the old turbos, intercooler etc, you might as well get the cheapest unit with a manual box?

Hoofy said: Pistonsquirter said: I am currently pondering which 996/997tt to go for.. I enjoy taking things to pieces and making them better so the Mezger’s abilities have be all warm and fuzzy inside, 700hp at the wheels you say… I suppose if you're going to chuck away the old turbos, intercooler etc, you might as well get the cheapest unit with a manual box? well quite, I genuinely have alerts with criteria for ‘cat-*c/*d/*n 997 turbo’. Briefly considered manual swapping a tip as well but the manual box prices start with a 10 and end in lots of zeroes

Pistonsquirter said: Hoofy said: Pistonsquirter said: I am currently pondering which 996/997tt to go for.. I enjoy taking things to pieces and making them better so the Mezger’s abilities have be all warm and fuzzy inside, 700hp at the wheels you say… I suppose if you're going to chuck away the old turbos, intercooler etc, you might as well get the cheapest unit with a manual box? well quite, I genuinely have alerts with criteria for ‘cat-*c/*d/*n 997 turbo’. Briefly considered manual swapping a tip as well but the manual box prices start with a 10 and end in lots of zeroes Apparently, the Stage 3 9E upgrade can be done on a standard tip box!?

Sorry to hijack op, it’s all just a very existing topic

Hoofy said: Pistonsquirter said: Hoofy said: Pistonsquirter said: I am currently pondering which 996/997tt to go for.. I enjoy taking things to pieces and making them better so the Mezger’s abilities have be all warm and fuzzy inside, 700hp at the wheels you say… I suppose if you're going to chuck away the old turbos, intercooler etc, you might as well get the cheapest unit with a manual box? well quite, I genuinely have alerts with criteria for ‘cat-*c/*d/*n 997 turbo’. Briefly considered manual swapping a tip as well but the manual box prices start with a 10 and end in lots of zeroes Apparently, the Stage 3 9E upgrade can be done on a standard tip box!? Yeah the tip uses the 722.6XX Daimler/merc box, very good and as fitted in the v12tt Mercedes’ sl600(?) I just don’t want auto, yet did watch a yt recently I think JayEmm pointed out the auto is better in a 99xtt as you have more concentration available to avoid any widowmaking Conversely I’m currently looking into 996 feasibility because the Vgt turbos on the 7 pretty much double the price of aftermarket options compared to the 6’s wastegate turbos, even though surely the machining to accept a bigger cartridge is identical….. See this 700hp kit is more like £20k sterling with vgt’s for the 7! https://www.markskituning.com/product/stage-4-k24s...

Pistonsquirter said: Yeah the tip uses the 722.6XX Daimler/merc box, very good and as fitted in the v12tt Mercedes’ sl600(?) I just don’t want auto, yet did watch a yt recently I think JayEmm pointed out the auto is better in a 99xtt as you have more concentration available to avoid any widowmaking Conversely I’m currently looking into 996 feasibility because the Vgt turbos on the 7 pretty much double the price of aftermarket options compared to the 6’s wastegate turbos, even though surely the machining to accept a bigger cartridge is identical….. See this 700hp kit is more like £20k sterling with vgt’s for the 7! https://www.markskituning.com/product/stage-4-k24s... That's cheaper than 9E's kit. https://www.nineexcellence.com/996-turbo-stage-3-9... I guess it doesn't include fitting? As for the box, I do prefer the Tip. Once you get used to dropping down a couple of gears, and knowing when to switch to M (manual) and back can help. For instance, when approaching a roundabout or corner, I'll slide it into M (well before the roundabout), let it change down (it does that automatically, even in M) then drop it down a gear so the revs are higher up the rev range, then accelerate out of the corner/roundabout, and pop it back into A (auto) and let it change up through the gears on its own. I do it so naturally now that I had to think about what to type. Similar for launching, into M select 1st gear launch slam it into D I understand that you can't over-rev the Tip box but I don't want to take the risk, so I could leave it in M the whole time? Edit: if it sounds too complicated, all I'm doing is starting in M and changing to D before the box needs to change into 2nd. So it's like a manual box but I only make one gear change. Edited by Hoofy on Thursday 14th July 00:41