Manual or PDK 718 Cayman GTS - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Undecided on which gearbox to go for. It will be a long term keeper, and used for weekends/fun/Europe. Whilst i appreciate PDK is very slick and makes a quicker car, can’t help but think I will enjoy still being able to manually change gear (daily cars are both auto (Ev and ICE)).. Would I miss PDK?

It really is personal preference and might also depend on what else you drive (manual or auto) and your age… Personally I have only test driven 911’s and Caymans with PDK, having had auto/DSG for the last couple of years I wasn’t keen on going back to manual and ended up choosing a Cayman S with PDK. It’s just a toy and will be used for the odd track day (one so far) and I have to say I certainly don’t regret not getting a manual. Having said that I am off to the Silverstone PEC on Thursday where I will drive manual Spyder and PDK GT4 so will be interesting to see if I feel I am missing out on anything, but I don’t think that will be my conclusion.

Let the religious wars commence ...

I wanted manual before buying a 981 CS, but thought I'd try PDK. Bought PDK, no regrets. Try both and ignore what we all say.

jwo said: Undecided on which gearbox to go for. It will be a long term keeper, and used for weekends/fun/Europe. Whilst i appreciate PDK is very slick and makes a quicker car, can’t help but think I will enjoy still being able to manually change gear (daily cars are both auto (Ev and ICE)).. Would I miss PDK? Hire one for a week and see - manual first and then PDK and see if you miss the manual. No matter what peoples replies are, there is no right or wrong answer, it is what is right for you. Its like asking shall I have a tea or coffee on a forum, what do you want?

Only you can answer that. Try both. Personally I love PDK in my 981. Slap it over in to manual and the gearstick feels like a proper gearstick so you can shift with it, or use the paddles. And when not attacking B roads you can slip it over to auto, it'll double the mpg and turn in to a very comfortable, easy going GT. Given the long gearing you'll barely get out of second with a manual anyway (will hit at least 70mph in second gear).

I tried both, in both NA and turbo versions of Cayman, and Cayman S. PDK is better in absolutely every way. In fact it's a technological marvel. If you ever get the opportunity, try launching a PDK 718 Cayman S off the left foot brake. It's hysterical. (Presumably a 718 GT4 with PDK can do the same trick? Bet that's even funnier!) And knowing all that... I'm on my 3rd Cayman (still have the 2nd), and they are all manual. In my defence, the 981 GT4 only ever came that way, but when it came to ordering a new base model... I know PDK is better, but I prefer cars with 3 pedals and a petrol engine. The objectively correct answer is PDK, but it's a subjective question. Try both and you'll know, as a few have said. Liam

jwo said: Undecided on which gearbox to go for. It will be a long term keeper, and used for weekends/fun/Europe. It’s impossible to answer that question because, as has been said, it is totally subjective, and there is no right answer - we are just fortunate to still have the choice. Some will argue that PDK is a technical marvel, others will argue that a Manual provides more satisfying driver involvement. If you did a poll it would probably be split 50/50. Although, I’ve often wondered if, these days, an increasing proportion of drivers may not actually be licensed to drive a Manual.

Being old school i Was convinced I wanted a manual Cayman as a fun 3rd weekend only car but have to say after the test drive I now will only buy a PDK. Sports cars over 300 bhp need a PDK to match performance but in a sub 300 bhp hot hatch i would go manual all then way though Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 20th February 03:38

jwo said: Undecided on which gearbox to go for. It will be a long term keeper, and used for weekends/fun/Europe. Whilst i appreciate PDK is very slick and makes a quicker car, can’t help but think I will enjoy still being able to manually change gear (daily cars are both auto (Ev and ICE)).. Would I miss PDK? Bolting a flappy paddle gearbox to a flat six engine should be a criminal offence. As you are thinking long term, keep in mind nothing dates a car faster than an automatic gearbox (as well as the PCM). Some people raved about PDK in the 981 when it was launched, but compared to more modern cars (like the 718) it’s pretty dim-witted. The same will be said about the 718 soon, if we aren’t all driving EV by then. Edited by SkinnyPete on Sunday 20th February 07:47

If you think of a PDK as an auto you are selling it short, a PDK is doing manual gearchanges better than you ever could, it is a masterpiece of engineering. Once you understand how it works it is, for my two bobs worth, if anything more fun than a manual. The only people who knock them are either blindly quoting what the experts(?) say or have never owned one.

I’d have to disagree slightly. After years of fun manual cars, I really wanted to try a PDK car, so bought a Carrera T with PDK about 16 months ago. Yes it is fantastic piece of kit and there is no question at all that it is faster in everyday use. It’s just so much easier to be in the right gear at the right time. And I absolutely loved the T. It really is a fantastic 911. But I just traded it in for a manual 718 GT4. The reality is that the PDK and the T is just too good for normal roads and normal road speeds. For me. I would almost certainly have kept the T for longer if it had been a manual. But I’ve scratched that itch, and now I know that a fun car for me has to be a manual. My winter/daily can quite happily be a diesel smoker. But as everyone else says, only you can make that choice. I’m glad I tried a PDK car over a decent period. Now I know.

Manual for fun, sure. If you’re actually using it to compete, either on track or to commute, then a pdk is quicker. There’ll be more hateful EVs around as well, so a pdk will certainly help in out accelerating these (model S plaid perhaps excepted…)

981Boxess said: If you think of a PDK as an auto you are selling it short, a PDK is doing manual gearchanges better than you ever could, it is a masterpiece of engineering. Once you understand how it works it is, for my two bobs worth, if anything more fun than a manual. The only people who knock them are either blindly quoting what the experts(?) say or have never owned one. That last line is usually trotted out by people without the foresight to appreciate that for some, driving a manual is effortless. To add further irony to your comment, I read it while sitting in my PDK equipped car You say PDK does gear changes better than a manual ever could, is that true? Not entirely I don’t think. Sure slow speed changes in PDK while mooching around are quick and smooth, but does that really matter? I can’t ever recall arriving at Tesco’s quicker thanks to PDK. The difference becomes less tangible at higher RPM, and depending on the driving mode. On a balance of smoothness and speed, a competent driver will shift better than PDK in sports plus mode. For context, I’ve done a lot of miles in PDK cars (my cayman is probably one of the higher mileage cars on this forum). I’ve used it for daily driving, euro road trips, track days, and even a bit of light off roading across muddy fields… I’ve also owned a manual cayman, so I can say with absolute confidence that I miss the manual gearbox, and that I would never buy another PDK car. OP, can you heel and toe? Can you double declutch? If so, get the manual. If not; than the GTS would be a great car to learn in Edited by SkinnyPete on Sunday 20th February 10:57

I think manuals will become the next beta max video for the upcoming generation with disposable income. We know less and less are wanting to drive and those taking their test probably only do so in DCTs these days. Manual will become very niche and age/generation related IMHO. NOT that resale should enter the equation of course

SkinnyPete said: On a balance of smoothness and speed, a competent driver will shift better than PDK in sports plus mode. Complete rubbish - but like the rest of us you are entitled to your opinion. I look forward to the return of gear levers in F1 very soon.

981Boxess said: SkinnyPete said: On a balance of smoothness and speed, a competent driver will shift better than PDK in sports plus mode. Complete rubbish - but like the rest of us you are entitled to your opinion. I look forward to the return of gear levers in F1 very soon. It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving.

SkinnyPete said: It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. We won't.

As others have said - this is an entirely subjective question, The car itself is fantastic and both gearboxes are very good at what they do. For me personally the decision is really easy. I want a car with a manual gearbox and 3 pedals. The PDK may well be objectively better and even more fun to some - but it's not what I want, so it's not what I ordered.

Thanks all for the continued responses.. I think I will try both - haven’t experienced PDK box before (have tried and tested ZF 8 speed at mo). Nice first world problem to have, and fortunately won’t be stuck on the M25 in heavy traffic in it, and a car to enjoy and drive for pleasure. Other thing in back of my mind is the longer term relatability of the PDK box - although will have a chat with a few local specialists..

jwo said: Thanks all for the continued responses.. I think I will try both - haven’t experienced PDK box before (have tried and tested ZF 8 speed at mo). Nice first world problem to have, and fortunately won’t be stuck on the M25 in heavy traffic in it, and a car to enjoy and drive for pleasure. Other thing in back of my mind is the longer term relatability of the PDK box - although will have a chat with a few local specialists.. That last point is a good one. Do you intend to keep the car in the OPC network and under the extended warranty? I would say this is a must if you are going for PDK, as replacements are very expensive (there was a thread on here just the other week).

SkinnyPete said: Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Wouldn't argue with anything else you've written as it's all personal opinion, but I'm surprised by this comment. I've PDK in a 981 and it's super smooth regardless of mode. Admittedly I've not tracked the car, but I've certainly used it hard.

NewNameNeeded said: SkinnyPete said: Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Wouldn't argue with anything else you've written as it's all personal opinion, but I'm surprised by this comment. I've PDK in a 981 and it's super smooth regardless of mode. Admittedly I've not tracked the car, but I've certainly used it hard. What revs are you changing gear at in sports plus? In sports plus Porsche deliberately 'mistime' the clutch engagement to dump kinetic energy into the drivetrain to give the car "emotion" (their words not mine). The result is jerky and unsettling gear changes, and in my opinion, makes the car a bit of a handful in the wet because the shock through the drivetrain makes the car susceptible to breaking traction (especially when cornering). McLaren does the same. So yes I stand by my earlier comment, that on the balance of speed and smoothness, a competent driver will get better results than PDK in sports plus.

Better-spaced ratios with PDK, plus PDK 7th is longer than manual 6th, so quieter and more economical at a cruise.

Flame suit on... When I finally get a build slot, I'm going for a PDK (bear with me..). I'll be sharing the car and SWMBO has the mechanical sympathy of a Tyrannosaurus Rex (an angry one with lemon juice in its eye). Plus revs have no influence on what gear should be used when.... so a PDK it is. My M2C (Whimper..) had a DCT and it was a riot when the mood took you but pretty civilised when left to its own devices. For me though even without the moans of "how long are the manual gear ratios?!" the PDK makes more sense, shorter ratios. SWMBO can drive it as lazily as needed and I can whip crack through the ratios when enjoying a drive. The only caveat being if I had a bigger garage (actually a garage..) and more funds I'd go manual and get a Taycan as SWMBO would adore driving that.

T1berious said: Flame suit on... When I finally get a build slot, I'm going for a PDK (bear with me..). I'll be sharing the car and SWMBO has the mechanical sympathy of a Tyrannosaurus Rex (an angry one with lemon juice in its eye). Plus revs have no influence on what gear should be used when.... so a PDK it is. My M2C (Whimper..) had a DCT and it was a riot when the mood took you but pretty civilised when left to its own devices. For me though even without the moans of "how long are the manual gear ratios?!" the PDK makes more sense, shorter ratios. SWMBO can drive it as lazily as needed and I can whip crack through the ratios when enjoying a drive. The only caveat being if I had a bigger garage (actually a garage..) and more funds I'd go manual and get a Taycan as SWMBO would adore driving that. Sounds like SWMBO wants PDK, you don’t…..

PDK is for the lazy, rotund, 50+ driver that just wants an easy life. Manual is for the virile young driving enthusiast.

Olivera said: PDK is for the lazy, rotund, 50+ driver that just wants an easy life. Manual is for the virile young driving enthusiast. PDK? 😃

Olivera said: PDK is for the lazy, rotund, 50+ driver that just wants an easy life. Manual is for the virile young driving enthusiast. Umm based on that statement a manual is for a brain dead moron

A slightly more sensible answer would be intended use , my car is my daily drive so I chose PDK , if it was a weekend toy (which would be a waste) I might have bought a manual , if you can try both

Olivera said: PDK is for the lazy, rotund, 50+ driver that just wants an easy life. Manual is for the virile young driving enthusiast. PDK? 😃

CantDecide said: It really is personal preference and might also depend on what else you drive (manual or auto) and your age… Personally I have only test driven 911’s and Caymans with PDK, having had auto/DSG for the last couple of years I wasn’t keen on going back to manual and ended up choosing a Cayman S with PDK. It’s just a toy and will be used for the odd track day (one so far) and I have to say I certainly don’t regret not getting a manual. Having said that I am off to the Silverstone PEC on Thursday where I will drive manual Spyder and PDK GT4 so will be interesting to see if I feel I am missing out on anything, but I don’t think that will be my conclusion. I’m there on Wednesday to drive the Spyder - will try to look after it!

If your using it for weekend fun, and just taking out for blasts then I'd say manual. If your daily driving and in a city then maybe PDK. Both boxes are good, have both right now, but PDK in the daily and manual in the fun car. I tend to find PDK boring when out driving for fun, manual just gives me something more to do. You don't have to heel and toe, sports plus down shifts with the manual are fun, so you can switch between the too. When on a long hoon I will heel and toe, but when not I don't bother, just leave it in sports plus. The gearing is super tall on the manual though, and as someone said if your not in warranty would you want to run PDK. I don't have extended warranty on our PDK, or manual tbh. You need to drive both and see what lights up the smile more, always buy what makes you smile more if my motto.

NA3pedals said: I’m there on Wednesday to drive the Spyder - will try to look after it! Let us know how you get on!

JayK12 said: If your using it for weekend fun, and just taking out for blasts then I'd say manual. If your daily driving and in a city then maybe PDK. . I’d agree with this, 100% If you do a lot of stop-start driving as part of your daily commute then allowing the gearbox to change gear for you over and over again, is a no brainier. But, if you commute over open roads, or don’t commute at all, and still enjoy including your left foot in the overall driving/clutch biting experience then a manual is going to be more enjoyable. (IMHO) My wife however, would always prefer an Auto, although, I don’t think she had ever used the flappy paddles in any of my old cars. Edited by Hol on Tuesday 22 February 14:20

Hol said: I’d agree with this, 100% If you do a lot of stop-start driving as part of your daily commute then allowing the gearbox to change gear for you over and over again, is a no brainier. But, if you commute over open roads, or don’t commute at all, and still enjoy including your left foot in the overall driving/clutch biting experience then a manual is going to be more enjoyable. (IMHO) My wife however, would always prefer an Auto, although, I don’t think she had ever used the flappy paddles in any of my old cars. Edited by Hol on Tuesday 22 February 14:20 Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling.

SkinnyPete said: It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Couldn't disagree more. As the owner of a PDK CGTS 4.0, I use Sport Plus when in manual mode all the time for the reason that it is smoother than Sport. The power delivery and throttle is also smoother in S+

julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. I must be in the 1% as I use the paddles all the time.

julian987R said: Hol said: I’d agree with this, 100% If you do a lot of stop-start driving as part of your daily commute then allowing the gearbox to change gear for you over and over again, is a no brainier. But, if you commute over open roads, or don’t commute at all, and still enjoy including your left foot in the overall driving/clutch biting experience then a manual is going to be more enjoyable. (IMHO) My wife however, would always prefer an Auto, although, I don’t think she had ever used the flappy paddles in any of my old cars. Edited by Hol on Tuesday 22 February 14:20 Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. I always wanted a bike engined Caterham for track, as they seem to work well in that environment, but I never really used them more than a few times in curiousity in my road cars. If you only had paddles and no autobox, i imagine you would get used to it, and adapt.

I've had numerous fast sports cars with DCT / PDK boxes and use the paddles all the time. In fact I don't ever leave them in auto. Used to be a die hard manual fan, but have realised both have great plus points.

julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. I like Clarkson but I also like to think for myself and make my own mind up, he is wrong in my case. Interesting to note he has now gone into the farming business as people have been blindly following what he says like sheep for years. I use them when going for a blast and would want to change often, I don't use them when going from A to B when you hardly change at all, it's nice to have the choice.

I too am in the 1% brigade.

MrVert said: Used to be a die hard manual fan, but have realised both have great plus points. I came from 18 years of TVR ownership, a car that does absolutely nothing for you, you are very much the driver and yet the PDK has won me over like so many others with a manual only mindset.

Me too. Almost always had the PDK Carrera T in manual mode and used the paddles. This 1% is looking a dubious figure, at least in this community.

both are flawed, I find myself getting frustrated with both . the manual has very long ratios, not sure if the 718 is any different but my 981 Spyder would crack 84 in second gear and 118 in 3rd, 145 in 4th the only gear I could legally use all the revs in the uk was 1st and I could do my local race circuit and only have to change gear once ! Pdk is a great box but in normal mode I find it wants to save the planet and get up the gears too quickly and if you driving quick usually tends to upshift when you don't want it to, in sport it hangs on to the gear too long. My Mrs daily is PDK and can't say I have ever used the paddles and she certainly hasn't. I am in the same position looking to buy another car with a choice and will likely go with the best of the bad bunch and get the manual at least you can control what gear you are in. this was a video on an airfield day of my 981 manual box redlining in each gear. https://www.instagram.com/p/BK3zLdJARK6uLT_KaaBqPg...

jackwood said: This 1% is looking a dubious figure, at least in this community. ........... a bit like the government quoted inflation figures, nowhere near the truth

JeffC said: both are flawed, I find myself getting frustrated with both . the manual has very long ratios, not sure if the 718 is any different but my 981 Spyder would crack 84 in second gear and 118 in 3rd, 145 in 4th the only gear I could legally use all the revs in the uk was 1st and I could do my local race circuit and only have to change gear once ! Pdk is a great box but in normal mode I find it wants to save the planet and get up the gears too quickly and if you driving quick usually tends to upshift when you don't want it to, in sport it hangs on to the gear too long. My Mrs daily is PDK and can't say I have ever used the paddles and she certainly hasn't. I am in the same position looking to buy another car with a choice and will likely go with the best of the bad bunch and get the manual at least you can control what gear you are in. this was a video on an airfield day of my 981 manual box redlining in each gear. https://www.instagram.com/p/BK3zLdJARK6uLT_KaaBqPg... You can control what gear you want in PDK also. It doesn't always have to be in auto mode. This is why I think for most people it is the superior choice.

981Boxess said: came from 18 years of TVR ownership, a car that does absolutely nothing for you, you are very much the driver and yet the PDK has won me over like so many others with a manual only mindset. Same evolution for me...T350C to Boxster 3.4S...both great cars in completely different ways. Still miss the old Tiv, especially the noise! I stayed with manuals in Porsche (weekend cars, 5 x 911's), refusing to go PDK... until I jumped into an F430, then a 458. Different boxes completely but changed my mind towards changing gears with paddles. Then went back to another couple of 911 manuals, Cayman R manual, then finally to PDK in a 981 GTS & a Spyder. For me now they're just as much fun, especially with the gearing on the 981, the PDK is more suited to that car I think. Still have an S1 Elise with a short shift kit, which is great fun on the track banging around the gears. However I know I would be quicker pretty much everywhere changing gear with my hands still on the wheel.

CRB14 said: JeffC said: both are flawed, I find myself getting frustrated with both . the manual has very long ratios, not sure if the 718 is any different but my 981 Spyder would crack 84 in second gear and 118 in 3rd, 145 in 4th the only gear I could legally use all the revs in the uk was 1st and I could do my local race circuit and only have to change gear once ! Pdk is a great box but in normal mode I find it wants to save the planet and get up the gears too quickly and if you driving quick usually tends to upshift when you don't want it to, in sport it hangs on to the gear too long. My Mrs daily is PDK and can't say I have ever used the paddles and she certainly hasn't. I am in the same position looking to buy another car with a choice and will likely go with the best of the bad bunch and get the manual at least you can control what gear you are in. this was a video on an airfield day of my 981 manual box redlining in each gear. https://www.instagram.com/p/BK3zLdJARK6uLT_KaaBqPg... You can control what gear you want in PDK also. It doesn't always have to be in auto mode. This is why I think for most people it is the superior choice. yes I have had multiple versions of both over the years but with the PDK I just tend to stick it into drive and let it do the work, last 4 years as a daily we have PDK and it's fine just find it a typical auto, last 911 I had few times I would go to pass a car , pull out and floor it and it would change up, yes I could have pulled the paddle and at times I did but for me its still not the same as using a decent manual box when you can heel and toe just a bit more involving. Modern cars are a diluted driving experience to start with especially Porsche so taking away the gear stick doesn't help. I am prob just old fashioned all my car collection are what I would class as drivers cars and all are manuals, I tried to spec up a new 718 Spyder and was going PDK as I wanted a car to go touring in and still think for what I want that car to do it is prob the way forward but having now to look around for a used model I would prob have either and will take whatever comes up.

jackwood said: Me too. Almost always had the PDK Carrera T in manual mode and used the paddles. This 1% is looking a dubious figure, at least in this community. A T with PDK? You'll be 'cancelled' by the purist contingent on here.

CRB14 said: SkinnyPete said: It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Couldn't disagree more. As the owner of a PDK CGTS 4.0, I use Sport Plus when in manual mode all the time for b/bthe reason that it is smoother than Sport. The power delivery and throttle is also smoother in S+ It isn’t. While I’ll concur PDK in the 718 is far superior to that in the 981, the principle between the modes is the same. Even Porsche say to expect reduced comfort as you go through the modes. Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport and Sport Plus button not active. When the selector lever is moved to position “D”, an extremely intelligent driving program is activated. Shifting adapts continuously and almost seamlessly to the driving style and route profile over the entire operating range. Gearshifts and gear changing speeds here are changed from economic/comfortable to sporty. Gearshifts are essentially performed with more emphasis on comfort. Also for improved comfort, the engine torque is reduced during upshifts and downshifts Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with very little intermediate throttle application and are therefore hardly audible. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport active An extremely intelligent driving program is also activated in this position and shifting adapts continuously and almost seamlessly to the driving style and route profile over the entire operating range. Basic sportiness is increased with faster pick-up and slower deceleration. Gearshifts are more performance-oriented and the engine torque is only reduced slightly during upshifts and downshifts. Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with intermediate throttle application and are therefore audible. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear. 7th gear is avoided for the most part and is engaged only at higher speeds. Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport Plus active Shift map adaptations are not active in this program. The most sporty map is activated permanently. Gearshifts are performance-oriented with reduced gearshift comfort. Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with intermediate throttle application and are thus very audible. Gearshifts are performance-oriented and the engine torque is not reduced during upshifts and downshifts. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear. 7th gear is not available. The racing start function is available.

SkinnyPete said: CRB14 said: SkinnyPete said: It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Couldn't disagree more. As the owner of a PDK CGTS 4.0, I use Sport Plus when in manual mode all the time for b/bthe reason that it is smoother than Sport. The power delivery and throttle is also smoother in S+ It isn’t. So somebody who owns the car and actually drives it isn't allowed to have their own opinion?

SkinnyPete said: CRB14 said: SkinnyPete said: It’s not complete rubbish, but we could argue until we are blue in the face. Sports plus is jerky, and ruins the car. I’ve met numerous PDK owners at track days who don’t use it for that very reason. It’s like Doreen from driving school is driving. Couldn't disagree more. As the owner of a PDK CGTS 4.0, I use Sport Plus when in manual mode all the time for b/bthe reason that it is smoother than Sport. The power delivery and throttle is also smoother in S+ It isn’t. While I’ll concur PDK in the 718 is far superior to that in the 981, the principle between the modes is the same. Even Porsche say to expect reduced comfort as you go through the modes. Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport and Sport Plus button not active. When the selector lever is moved to position “D”, an extremely intelligent driving program is activated. Shifting adapts continuously and almost seamlessly to the driving style and route profile over the entire operating range. Gearshifts and gear changing speeds here are changed from economic/comfortable to sporty. Gearshifts are essentially performed with more emphasis on comfort. Also for improved comfort, the engine torque is reduced during upshifts and downshifts Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with very little intermediate throttle application and are therefore hardly audible. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport active An extremely intelligent driving program is also activated in this position and shifting adapts continuously and almost seamlessly to the driving style and route profile over the entire operating range. Basic sportiness is increased with faster pick-up and slower deceleration. Gearshifts are more performance-oriented and the engine torque is only reduced slightly during upshifts and downshifts. Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with intermediate throttle application and are therefore audible. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear. 7th gear is avoided for the most part and is engaged only at higher speeds. Driving in selector-lever position “D”, Sport Plus active Shift map adaptations are not active in this program. The most sporty map is activated permanently. Gearshifts are performance-oriented with reduced gearshift comfort. Downshifts in deceleration state and deceleration downshifts are accomplished with intermediate throttle application and are thus very audible. Gearshifts are performance-oriented and the engine torque is not reduced during upshifts and downshifts. The vehicle moves off in 1st gear. 7th gear is not available. The racing start function is available. Yep, that’s all well and good, but what you’ve missed is that I talked about manual mode. What you’ve listed here is in “D” (auto mode). I would totally agree that in auto mode S+ is much more violent. But I’m manual mode it is quite different for whatever reason.

I don't have 'Chrono but I had a loaner with S+ mode recently and found it far too aggressive for road driving. Sports mode seems to me to be ideal for that. I say S+ is probably more of a track mode really? Normal mode is more eco, great for getting 40+ mpg though. I always usually just drive it everywhere in Sport.

julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. I only ever drive the PDK in manual mode, but the gearstick on the 981 is a proper gearstick shape, so I use this to change gear. Never use the paddles.

Love my PDK.

981Boxess said: .......... a bit like the government quoted inflation figures, nowhere near the truth I dont think even this govt would come out with 1 % My straw poll is 100% so far

julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. For most of the time, I sit in the do not use paddles group, with some exceptions. Depending on the circuit and the weather, I may use sports plus and manual mode. That way I can benefit from the reduced PSM and ABS intervention, but I can lift off the throttle between gear changes to mitigate the jerkiness described earlier in the thread…a bit like driving an E60 M5 or F430 (now those are proper auto gearboxes!)! Interesting video from Chris Harris on the unsettling sports plus gearshifts at 6:12 - 7:36 seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npzreAPHa7Y&t=...

NewNameNeeded said: I only ever drive the PDK in manual mode, but the gearstick on the 981 is a proper gearstick shape, so I use this to change gear. Never use the paddles. Shame it is the wrong way around in the 981. Push forward to change up… Wtaf! Paddles far preferable to the hateful ‘buttons’ at least.

Lexington59 said: Shame it is the wrong way around in the 981. Push forward to change up… Wtaf! Feels entirely natural to me but hadn't realised it changed between 981 and 718 - though that switch was earlier! Better remember that if I ever move over.

NewNameNeeded said: Lexington59 said: Shame it is the wrong way around in the 981. Push forward to change up… Wtaf! Feels entirely natural to me but hadn't realised it changed between 981 and 718 - though that switch was earlier! Better remember that if I ever move over. I'd never advocate changing gear in anything other than a straight line, but the benefit of the lever over the paddles if you can change gear with the steering wheel turned. Unfortunately, the paddles in Porsches are fitted to the steering wheel and not the steering column.

Maxym said: jackwood said: Me too. Almost always had the PDK Carrera T in manual mode and used the paddles. This 1% is looking a dubious figure, at least in this community. A T with PDK? You'll be 'cancelled' by the purist contingent on here. I know! The shame! Lol But hence why it didn’t stay around very long and has been replaced by a manual GT4. Had to at least give it a go. And means I can comment on the subject with some real world experience.

Regarding Sport+ manual PDK gear changes, I’m afraid I have to agree that the changes are far too aggressive for fast road driving. Not that they are uncomfortable, but just feel borderline dangerous to me. Upshifts can feel very unsettling. Which is a real shame because on the turbo’d cars the Sport+ mode does some really clever stuff to keep the turbo boosting when you lift off, which it doesn’t do in any of the other modes.

CRB14 said: Yep, that’s all well and good, but what you’ve missed is that I talked about manual mode. What you’ve listed here is in “D” (auto mode). I would totally agree that in auto mode S+ is much more violent. But I’m manual mode it is quite different for whatever reason. Lets hope Chris Harris has covered that in his 2012 video because pretty much everything that has been posted above has come from it word for word. Thankfully Chris Harris also said "drive it and make your own mind up" Have your own opinion, that will never catch on surely

Lexington59 said: Paddles far preferable to the hateful ‘buttons’ at least. I couldn't get on with the buttons, I am sure someone out there must like them(?). The only reasoning I could come up with for having them is that with 4 stalks behind the wheel it gets a bit crowded back there. That said that is easily resolved with a wheel swap to have paddles instead, which is what I did.

julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. have had manual Boxsters, 911's, GT3 and GT4, and also PDK Boxster's and GT3, and for me its now PDK every time. New Touirng has been ordered as PDK As for the 1% using the paddles, never use anything else with PDK, and moving the lever over happens just after turning the key, so another one for the 1% paddle group. I do have a M3 with DCT as a daily, and that does get used in auto (in sports mode) for about 80% of the time as it's commuting and work.

flow99 said: julian987R said: Yep I remember Clarkson saying you'll never use the flappy paddles and though I don't own a PDK, from all those I have spoke with who do have PDK they never use the paddles - I bet for 99% of owners they are just steering wheel bling. have had manual Boxsters, 911's, GT3 and GT4, and also PDK Boxster's and GT3, and for me its now PDK every time. New Touirng has been ordered as PDK As for the 1% using the paddles, never use anything else with PDK, and moving the lever over happens just after turning the key, so another one for the 1% paddle group. I do have a M3 with DCT as a daily, and that does get used in auto (in sports mode) for about 80% of the time as it's commuting and work. Yup I think if you buy a PDK for fun then your likely to use the paddles, but if your commuting then what's the point. I never use the paddles on the daily. If the gearing was shorter on the Manual it would be so much better. Before I brought this GTS I had a daily/fun car which was auto, but it became more of a fun car, I used paddles but just didn't find it engaging, its almost too easy. When I got back in the manual (it had been 3 years as my Radical was also paddle shift) It brought big smiles. There's something about it that just makes it more fun for me. Not everyone is the same though. Has the OP driven both yet?

Had my ‘ultimate mid engine experience’ at PEC today, driving the 718 Spyder (manual) and 718 GT4 (PDK). Was a brilliant experience and they really do let you explore the cars capabilities (slides) without interfering, just offering useful pointers. If you haven’t done a PEC experience I would highly recommend one. Had 45 minutes in each car and took both on the handling, low friction, ice hill and kick plate. Really enjoyed both cars with identical performance (as far as I could tell on these circuits) but very quickly came to the conclusion that PDK is definitely for me. That’s a good job as I recently got a 981 Cayman S with PDK. The long gearing was really evident in the Spyder, easily being able to stay in one gear for the handling circuit (helped by the additional torque of the 4.0). Driving the GT4 I felt more willing to keep moving up and down the gears via the paddles. PSE make a big difference (my car doesn’t have it) and is pretty loud when pushing on. Agree with the comments about Sport + with PDK giving quite violent gear changes, kind of a brutal feeling compared to normal/sport. Can easily feel the power advantage over my 981 S, but other than that and the noise it didn’t feel that different to drive. Sure the cabin is a little more up to date, but it certainly isn’t night and day. Spent quite a while on the low friction circuit, driving in circles playing with under steer and oversteer. The instructor was very accommodating as we got mini drifts again and again, all whilst giving me pointers (I am clearly no driving god…). Had a few pretty good drifts, obviously pretty short but enough to start to get a feel for what it takes to create and keep it. Sadly all good things come to an end and the sessions were over. Before going I was slightly concerned I might get into my Cayman feeling a little disappointed with its 325 BHP, but actually I had a fab drive home thinking its probably enough for me and road driving especially given the price difference to move into a 718 GT4. What I have realised though is that I really liked the alcantara steering wheel and PSE. So I might have to look at a steering wheel re-trim and doing something about the exhaust. Perhaps a DesignTek switchable system which seem reasonably priced. After that just drive and enjoy! Edited by CantDecide on Thursday 24th February 16:00

Not driven either Cayman (PDK/Manual) - that is on the list and being sorted. Ultimately I suspect I’ll put a deposit down and then go to Silverstone to drive both and then lock in order after that.. It is a very first world problem to have - whether I’m being nostalgic wanting a manual in for the weekend I don’t know..

I have a Cayman 981 GTS PDK which I have had for 4 years now originally planned as a daily but now just a weekend/road trip toy. It was my first ever 'auto' but when driving for fun I ALWAYS use the paddles. The PDK gearbox is amazing and allows me to be 'on it' and keep up or often be quicker than friends in more powerful cars on our driving trips. It is a proper weapon! The problem is when I am not driving at 7/10ths or above, I miss a manual gearbox, (previous Porsche was a manual 997S). Also I do sometimes get carried away and drive faster than I should, partly as the PDK allows me to stay always in the optimum rev range, even change gears mid corner easily, or sometime shift to 1st on an alpine hairpin just for a few seconds, (whereas in a manual I would not bother to shift down for such a short period of time). I have a 718 GTS 4.0 on order for delivery hopefully Q4 2022. I still love my 981 which is a fantastic car, (X73 suspension, M&M 200cel manifolds so it sounds immense ), so my main justification for spending an extra £30k to change to a 718 is going back to a manual gearbox. I have my Porsche experience date booked in May for a manual GTS, but also have a friend booked the same time in PDK GTS, so the plan would be to have a go in both just to be sure.... I am worried the PDK will feel noticeably quicker with it's shorter gearing and then make me question the whole logic of changing from my 981 in the first place....

If you're changing for the manual 'box, who cares if the PDK is potentially a touch quicker? The gearing isn't that different really, and certainly not night and day. If you want a manual, buy a manual while you still can...

Twinfan said: If you're changing for the manual 'box, who cares if the PDK is potentially a touch quicker? The gearing isn't that different really, and certainly not night and day. If you want a manual, buy a manual while you still can... I do want the manual... I just don't want my friend to disappear into the distance in his PDK. If the gearing does bother me I would seriously look into a re-gear set like DeMan offer and except the loss of future warranty. (I plan for this car to be a long term keeper.)

Your friend will only disappear if they're a better driver than you However, PDK does have an advantage on unkown roads as you can bang down the gears without unsettling the car.

It really depends on how you want to use it. On track and as everyday car PDK i more convenient. For a fun day out its most be the manual. I drove my first long (500 km) in my new 992 GT3 Touring yesterday. I choose a PDK and had been wavering. Yesterday sitting in slow moving traffic after 5 hours in the car, I was glad that I had a PDK equipped car. The "use case" for a PDK is slightly stronger for a PDK and remember when you ask people on Pistonheads they will all tell you to go manual whilst ordering PDK if they had the opportunity.

hornbaek said: It really depends on how you want to use it. On track and as everyday car PDK i more convenient. For a fun day out its most be the manual. I drove my first long (500 km) in my new 992 GT3 Touring yesterday. I choose a PDK and had been wavering. Yesterday sitting in slow moving traffic after 5 hours in the car, I was glad that I had a PDK equipped car. The "use case" for a PDK is slightly stronger for a PDK and remember when you ask people on Pistonheads they will all tell you to go manual whilst ordering PDK if they had the opportunity. Not me. Given the choice, I'd order the manual every time - because that is what I actually want. That's the beauty of choice, and we should continue to be thankful that Porsche offers us the choice because most other manufacturers don't.

hornbaek said: It really depends on how you want to use it. On track and as everyday car PDK i more convenient. For a fun day out its most be the manual. I drove my first long (500 km) in my new 992 GT3 Touring yesterday. I choose a PDK and had been wavering. Yesterday sitting in slow moving traffic after 5 hours in the car, I was glad that I had a PDK equipped car. The "use case" for a PDK is slightly stronger for a PDK and remember when you ask people on Pistonheads they will all tell you to go manual whilst ordering PDK if they had the opportunity. And not me, manual due next month

SpyderMatt said: And not me, manual due next month Not me! Drove both. Manual was nice but PDK for a daily car was a no brainier.

SpyderMatt said: And not me, manual due next month Nor me, 2 manual Caymans in the garage, most recent collected new back in December. I know PDK is better, just couldn't make myself order one of them even for my latest daily drive. Liam Edited by LiamH66 on Monday 28th February 22:32

981Boxess said: ets hope Chris Harris has covered that in his 2012 video because pretty much everything that has been posted above has come from it word for word. Thankfully Chris Harris also said "drive it and make your own mind up" Have your own opinion, that will never catch on surely You're referencing a 10 year old video on a car which was only released (in PDK) barely 2 years ago. I honestly don't care what anyone thinks of my opinion. I went out in the car again at the weekend and I stand by what I said. In Sport+ (IN MANUAL MODE) the gear changes feel a bit smoother to me. It's not significantly noticeable, but I feel it. What anyone else thinks doesn't matter - they don't own my car.

krispe said: Twinfan said: If you're changing for the manual 'box, who cares if the PDK is potentially a touch quicker? The gearing isn't that different really, and certainly not night and day. If you want a manual, buy a manual while you still can... I do want the manual... I just don't want my friend to disappear into the distance in his PDK. If the gearing does bother me I would seriously look into a re-gear set like DeMan offer and except the loss of future warranty. (I plan for this car to be a long term keeper.) The gearing is only different by a couple of miles per hour. Also, the only reason your friend may disappear into the distance is if they are a better driver than you. If you anticipate and use your gears appropriately you'll find no difference in acceleration between the cars (assuming they are both the same engine). Rather than look at a new gear set, perhaps learn to use first gear? It's good for almost 50mph

CRB14 said: 981Boxess said: Lets hope Chris Harris has covered that in his 2012 video because pretty much everything that has been posted above has come from it word for word. Thankfully Chris Harris also said "drive it and make your own mind up" Have your own opinion, that will never catch on surely You're referencing a 10 year old video on a car which was only released (in PDK) barely 2 years ago. I honestly don't care what anyone thinks of my opinion. I went out in the car again at the weekend and I stand by what I said. In Sport+ (IN MANUAL MODE) the gear changes feel a bit smoother to me. It's not significantly noticeable, but I feel it. What anyone else thinks doesn't matter - they don't own my car. I was agreeing with you and referencing the fact that the resident self proclaimed experts were blindly quoting a 10 year old video. Even if (big if) what was said at the time was right it doesn't mean it is still true today. Speaking only for myself I would take anything posted on here with a pinch of salt, which is why I always advocate for somebody to make their own mind up.

Maxym said: A T with PDK? You'll be 'cancelled' by the purist contingent on here. Add me to the list of sinners… my T is PDK and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Have my name down on the new T if it ever comes and it will be PDK too. I’m absolutely converted living in a city I just couldn’t be bothered having to change gear my GT4 was horrible in stop start traffic.

krispe said: Twinfan said: If you're changing for the manual 'box, who cares if the PDK is potentially a touch quicker? The gearing isn't that different really, and certainly not night and day. If you want a manual, buy a manual while you still can... I do want the manual... I just don't want my friend to disappear into the distance in his PDK. If the gearing does bother me I would seriously look into a re-gear set like DeMan offer and except the loss of future warranty. (I plan for this car to be a long term keeper.) That just means you have to work harder, which means more fun and satisfaction from driving!

SkinnyPete said: The gearing is only different by a couple of miles per hour. Also, the only reason your friend may disappear into the distance is if they are a better driver than you. If you anticipate and use your gears appropriately you'll find no difference in acceleration between the cars (assuming they are both the same engine). Rather than look at a new gear set, perhaps learn to use first gear? It's good for almost 50mph We are very evenly matched as drivers I just need to get my head round 1st gear being a proper usable gear rather than just for pulling away. I love this video with the 911R and 992 GT3 Touring where the driver consistently uses first gear on the tight bends. https://youtu.be/WCVQzQuFkhM

JayK12 said: That just means you have to work harder, which means more fun and satisfaction from driving! I currently have a manual daily and an auto toy, so makes much more sense to now swap that around, (manual toy and then get an auto or maybe an electric daily...)

981Boxess said: was agreeing with you and referencing the fact that the resident self proclaimed experts were blindly quoting a 10 year old video. Even if (big if) what was said at the time was right it doesn't mean it is still true today. Speaking only for myself I would take anything posted on here with a pinch of salt, which is why I always advocate for somebody to make their own mind up. Ah fair enough - a bit of a misunderstanding on my part

krispe said: JayK12 said: That just means you have to work harder, which means more fun and satisfaction from driving! I currently have a manual daily and an auto toy, so makes much more sense to now swap that around, (manual toy and then get an auto or maybe an electric daily...) Makes sense, this is the way I've always done it. Although I don't really commute these days.

krispe said: SkinnyPete said: The gearing is only different by a couple of miles per hour. Also, the only reason your friend may disappear into the distance is if they are a better driver than you. If you anticipate and use your gears appropriately you'll find no difference in acceleration between the cars (assuming they are both the same engine). Rather than look at a new gear set, perhaps learn to use first gear? It's good for almost 50mph We are very evenly matched as drivers I just need to get my head round 1st gear being a proper usable gear rather than just for pulling away. I love this video with the 911R and 992 GT3 Touring where the driver consistently uses first gear on the tight bends. https://youtu.be/WCVQzQuFkhM Yep, Porsche absolutely wants you to use 1st gear. 38mph is probably the max I'd downshift into 1st in a manual Cayman, but of course it depends on the circumstances. One big huge blip on the throttle, can do it smoother than PDK in sports plus too

Aaaarghhhh - I am so undecided about this. I’ve always had manual Boxsters and was looking for the same when I bought my 981 GTS 4 years ago. Then the perfect spec, perfect colour car appeared and I jumped at it - despite its PDK box. It’s been a fantastic car: I’ve loved it and the PDK is brilliant. But I still hankered after a manual so specified it when I placed an order for a GTS 4.0 in August last year (no allocation yet). It’s probably my last new ICE car so let’s go with the full hands on experience I thought - no compromises. Then I started to worry about the long gears and decided to try both a PDK and a manual at the PEC Day at Silverstone. I loved the throw of the manual, the snick of the gearbox and the wonderful involvement of physically changing gear. My decision was vindicated. Out of the manual and into the PDK next. What a gearbox - even better than the 981 version! On the tight handling circuits in sport mode and the PDK in auto it was lightning quick with double downshifts under braking ahead of sharp corners: achieving a single manual downshift would have been nigh on impossible in the same time, let alone two. It enabled me to focus completely on my lines, steering, braking and accelerating away, safe in the knowledge I would always be in the right gear. Tremendous. I left Silverstone thinking that the answer was PDK. But is it? If the gears were shorter, I would almost certainly go manual - I just love the feeling of changing gear. Luckily, I don’t commute or live in a city so stop/start motoring is not an issue. But I do attend four or five track days a year and the PDK would be much better for them. And my wife would certainly prefer an ‘automatic’. Though, of course, it does cost £2k more which could go on another couple of options. And so it goes on. Ultimately, the solution is clear: a manual Boxster and a PDK Cayman. I just need to get a second allocation. Shouldn’t be a problem, should it?