GT4 TO GET PDK - WILL SPYDER BE NEXT ? - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

See attached link which states that GT4 is tio get PDK option. Hopefully same will apply to Spyder ? http://gtspirit.com/2015/09/03/porsche-cayman-gt4-...

Are there a lot of unsold cars across other parts of the world that Porsche think will get sold by adding PDK?? Don't understand it in the UK when the allocation has sold out on the basis of it being manual?

rehashed old news from someone who posted about his meet with AP and does not look like it is going to happen as the chap who posted hinted we would know 2 days ago!

I will eat my virtual hat if it actually happens for the 981.1.

Can't believe the online car magazines are naive enough to pick this story up and run with it based on an individuals chat (not meeting) with AP. Whilst it may or may not be true, these magazines are just making themselves look stupid by publishing.

Won't the GT4 race cars have PDK?

mdianuk said: Can't believe the online car magazines are naive enough to pick this story up and run with it based on an individuals chat (not meeting) with AP. Whilst it may or may not be true, these magazines are just making themselves look stupid by publishing. Latest: "Hey guys - sorry about getting the time frame wrong on the release of info. I can not say any more without violating my promise to keep it confidential until they officially announce"

Koln-RS said: Won't the GT4 race cars have PDK? Not sure, but if they do get PDK am i right in thinking that Porsche have to produce a road-going version (PDK)? Also, GT4 class is limited to 6 gears? PDK is 7.

Having spoken to Andreas Preuninger this morning; this is his official position on a PDK version GT4 and requested I share with the Internet: "I am afraid the current GT4 with PDK story is complete nonsense, I never said this to anybody. I generally state that we monitor the market Situation before we plan new models and that future generation GT cars could offer the choice of either manual or PDK, but thats years from today and not decided yet. I have no problem if you share that Information."

Andreas is sitting next to me right now, sipping his coffee. He has red trousers on. He has asked me to type this for him:- "The GT4 will be re-released in November with PDK, more stitching options and an advanced 2.0 diesel flat four as standard. Owners can expect 50mpg on a run and great residuals." I hope that clears things up.

haha, fair enough, at least one of us is telling the truth.

Certainly seems to have been a load of b ks in the first place. No idea on the rumour of more manuals though; I hope there are so I can get a build slot, but equally would have loved to see it remain as limited as the R and Spyder were (987)

mdianuk said: Certainly seems to have been a load of b ks in the first place. No idea on the rumour of more manuals though; I hope there are so I can get a build slot, but equally would have loved to see it remain as limited as the R and Spyder were (987) They were only limited because nobody bought them. They couldn't give them away when they came out. The Cayman R was the most underwelming Porsche release ever. And that includes some of the deisel saloon and 4x4's they done.

jackwood said: They were only limited because nobody bought them. They couldn't give them away when they came out. The Cayman R was the most underwelming Porsche release ever. And that includes some of the deisel saloon and 4x4's they done. ...and yet an absolutely incredible car to drive.

jackwood said: mdianuk said: Certainly seems to have been a load of b ks in the first place. No idea on the rumour of more manuals though; I hope there are so I can get a build slot, but equally would have loved to see it remain as limited as the R and Spyder were (987) They were only limited because nobody bought them. They couldn't give them away when they came out. The Cayman R was the most underwelming Porsche release ever. And that includes some of the deisel saloon and 4x4's they done. yeah. I had a huge double digit discount on the CR for order to spec back then but they are pretty fun to drive. All caymans are really.

anonymous said: [redacted] I actually meant it was an anticlimactic launch. An underwhlming spec. The list of changes were very tame. Everyone was expecting a Cayman GT car and we got the R. Hence it's lukewarm response in the marketplace.

The UK was In the s t all car sales were in record low.

PorscheGT4 said: The UK was In the s t all car sales were in record low. and there was some great deals to be had on 911s,boxster and cayman at the end of 2011 as the 981 and 991 approached dealerships!circa 15% could be had off a new/new preregd 997.2s or even a gts! Was the best time to buy a new car

mdianuk said: Having spoken to Andreas Preuninger this morning; this is his official position on a PDK version GT4 and requested I share with the Internet: "I am afraid the current GT4 with PDK story is complete nonsense, I never said this to anybody. I generally state that we monitor the market Situation before we plan new models and that future generation GT cars could offer the choice of either manual or PDK, but thats years from today and not decided yet. I have no problem if you share that Information." Now, now mdianuk, are you tell us the truth here? Did you really speak with AP? Perhaps, you can share with us exactly where he was when you fellows spoke?

Matttheboatman said: Now, now mdianuk, are you tell us the truth here? Did you really speak with AP? Perhaps, you can share with us exactly where he was when you fellows spoke? Matt, Could you offer a thought as to why everyone misinterpreted your report of your meeting with AP (as posted on Planet9)? Welcome to the bear pit..

Matttheboatman said: Now, now mdianuk, are you tell us the truth here? Did you really speak with AP? Perhaps, you can share with us exactly where he was when you fellows spoke? I certainly don't lie! It was an email response so I have no idea of his geographical location, but interestingly got an out of office response so didn't expect him to get back so soon. Not that I have to prove myself, but if you drop me an email, I'll forward it on to you.

itsybitsy said: and there was some great deals to be had on 911s,boxster and cayman at the end of 2011 as the 981 and 991 approached dealerships!circa 15% could be had off a new/new preregd 997.2s or even a gts! Was the best time to buy a new car Manufacturers like to be able to say, "our great new model only costs £50 more than the old one". To achieve this they tend to go on pushing up the list price of the old model towards the end of its life while offering increasingly bigger discounts.

mdianuk said: I certainly don't lie! It was an email response so I have no idea of his geographical location, but interestingly got an out of office response so didn't expect him to get back so soon. Not that I have to prove myself, but if you drop me an email, I'll forward it on to you. So, let me see if I have this correct mdianuk. You are now saying that you did NOT actually speak to him, but instead he sent you an email. And, after receiving such email, you were unable to communicate back with him because he was out of the office when he sent it. Am I following this correctly? Edited by Matttheboatman on Tuesday 22 September 14:41

Matttheboatman said: So, let me see if I have this correct mdianuk. You are now saying that you did NOT actually speak to him, but instead he sent you an email. And, after receiving such email, you were unable to communicate back with him because he was out of the office when he sent it. Am I following this correctly? I spoke to him on email, as stated. My initial email was met with an 'out of office' reply with a date of return and an alternative contact, so was surprised when he replied the next morning. If you don't believe me, that is fine, I can't imagine you would want to given the information you published on Planet 9 (and subsequently nothing happened a few days later as you said). It is however accurate, I have no reason to lie, I wanted a PDK launch (or more build slots) to be true as I'm still hoping to order. What is quite unbelievable however is that an OPC contacted me the day before I got a response from Andreas asking if I would like to put a deposit down based on information they had, which transpired to be the Internet rumour started by you

mdianuk said: What is quite unbelievable however is that an OPC contacted me the day before I got a response from Andreas asking if I would like to put a deposit down based on information they had, which transpired to be the Internet rumour started by you Heh, heh, coincidentally I spoke with my OPC again today wrt taking my deposit back (last comms 1.5 weeks ago) as the information I was reading on all the best and knowledgeable internet forums was still suggesting I'd missed the boat. However, OPC advised me that I should leave it (deposit) with them as they 'believe' there now will be more cars next year to meet demand (or they just like having my money indefinitely). They would not quote anything official but they have now also taken some new recent deposits which they would not have done did they not expect more cars (their words not mine). So there you go - more unsubstantiated rumour, misinformation / disinformation with a tadge of mystery to put in the pot and spur on the marketing hype. I must add that I am not friends with Andreas (aka Andy) - not even a distant acquaintance, so your intelligence is likely to be more up-to-speed than mine!

Matttheboatman said: So, let me see if I have this correct mdianuk. You are now saying that you did NOT actually speak to him, but instead he sent you an email. And, after receiving such email, you were unable to communicate back with him because he was out of the office when he sent it. Am I following this correctly? Edited by Matttheboatman on Tuesday 22 September 14:41 Why is this any less believable than what you wrote on planet9? There's one big difference - what you said would happen did not. The credibility score is not favouring you.

Given the sticky situation VW have got themselves into re: diesel fraud, I would be very surprised if they did not ramp up production of Porsche models....such as the GT4.

CNW25 said: Given the sticky situation VW have got themselves into re: diesel fraud, I would be very surprised if they did not ramp up production of Porsche models....such as the GT4. Check out the numbers. VW group sold about 10,000,000 vehicles last year. Even if they multiplied sales of 981s tenfold it would still make absolutely no difference whatsoever in the context of their overall Group results.

It might when they have to sell Porsche to pay all the fines and legal charges

It might when they have to sell Porsche to pay all the fines and legal charges

sofaking said: Why is this any less believable than what you wrote on planet9? Ok, lets set the record straight. I did speak with him, my wife and I met him in person, face to face, at his office in Weissach, where he autographed my GT4 and my log books. He was extremely generous with his time, and I found him to be a true gentleman, and passionate car guy. The visit was the highlight of my European Delivery. The only thing I got wrong in my report was when I said the decision to offer PDK would make sense in 3 days. To date, they have not announced the other thing yet, and I agreed not say anything about the other thing so I can not comment now. And, I did post a subsequent correction saying that I got the 3 days wrong. Credible? You decide.

CNW25 said: It might when they have to sell Porsche to pay all the fines and legal charges I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the VW boardroom at the moment - ouch !

RSVP911 said: CNW25 said: It might when they have to sell Porsche to pay all the fines and legal charges I'd love to be a fly on the wall of the VW boardroom at the moment - ouch ! I suspect it will be populated with new people very soon. If they dont act swiftly and decisively this could bring the group down.

mollytherocker said: I suspect it will be populated with new people very soon. If they dont act swiftly and decisively this could bring the group down. I think you're right , I can't see most of the board surviving - quite right too - deliberate and methodical approach to mislead - and as such, I can't believe that they weren't aware at some level and if not , they simply look inept that they didn't know . Agree this will have a profound affect on the company's value - lost 1/3 of their 45 bn valuation already and they've only provided 5bn for an issue that they say could be worth 18 bn - 40 % of the company value , hence the devaluation. I guess the challenge here is how do you put an estimate on what will be spiralling international costs and negative sales , propped up by squeezed margins . I wonder , long term , what this means for Porsche : I think we'll see a concerted move to drive profit and production to help prop up the group P&L - another step closer to commercial mediocrity . Interesting times

mdianuk said: I spoke to him on email D Don't you agree that implying you talked with AP was misleading if you did not? It may not be lie, but its not the truth either, is it?

anonymous said: [redacted] Moose, you boys are a tough lot to crack, so I will not try any further. Believe what you want, but I guess I am the only "random punter" who had the gumpshun and know how to get a meeting with AP. And, to get his signature on my GT4. Random? You decide. Edited by Matttheboatman on Wednesday 23 September 01:54

Matttheboatman said: Don't you agree that implying you talked with AP was misleading if you did not? It may not be lie, but its not the truth either, is it? Nope, don't agree, I accept spoken as any form of communication including email. Clearly trying to pick holes in anything now, just because what you had told the world was inaccurate and has even been removed (blacked out) from your original post, be that a decision you've made, or pressure from a higher power. I reached out to Andreas because I was so hoping what you said was true, as I'm keen to get a GT4; it was sheer luck/fluke that he replied, and emphatically so by calling out what you said as "nonsense"...I bet he wishes he didn't sign your car now! Fair enough you might be a little embarrassed at being outed, and there has been a backlash from members of the same forum, but don't question my moral standing thanks, I've given you the opportunity to email me for a copy of the message received, but you haven't taken me up on the offer.

Given the bombshell that has landed on the VW group, I suspect that their production plans will be seriously reassessed, and Porsche may well be impacted if their diesels have similar issues. How far this will go is anyone's guess. It's become a Europe wide issue now, and there are certainly those who suspect that VW are not the only guilty party. It may be that emission tests are revised as a result - let's face it real world economy is often nowhere near official figures. Until now, I'm sure manufacturers didn't want to rock the boat (they have engine production plans based upon current tests - which favour turbos). But now the cat is out of the bag there may a change in the test regime, which favours different engine designs. Who knows? We live in "exciting" times (or if you are a manufacturer, frightening ones) , and the end result is completely unpredictable.

anonymous said: [redacted] Blow over? I would be very surprised. This story is expanding and growing, and I have no doubt that there is much more to come. Winterkorn will surely fall on his sword today. Theres no choice. Other companies will be implicated, and even Governments too. The whole testing methods are completely inadequate. Its a right mess. Blow over? No chance.

anonymous said: [redacted] VW will need their pots of cash with talk of a possible €37500 fine per offending car since 2009...........

excuse me, but what as all this VW business got to do with my original post ? Interesting though it is!

Todays Autocar says only 50 GT4s for the UK. Must be true..... :

WG said: excuse me, but what as all this VW business got to do with my original post ? Interesting though it is! If VW are in trouble and they (and Porsche?) can't produce diesels for a while (if there was a simple fix they would have done it in the last 6 years) - then the VW group (and Porsche) will have to reassess their production schedules. So anything that has been said about future production will be reconsidered - and what the outcome will be, who knows. So there is little point in arguing about what AP may or may not have said/written/meant.

bcr5784 said: WG said: excuse me, but what as all this VW business got to do with my original post ? Interesting though it is! If VW are in trouble and they (and Porsche?) can't produce diesels for a while (if there was a simple fix they would have done it in the last 6 years) - then the VW group (and Porsche) will have to reassess their production schedules. So anything that has been said about future production will be reconsidered - and what the outcome will be, who knows. So there is little point in arguing about what AP may or may not have said/written/meant. None of which would have any impact on sports cars, as Porsche doesnt really build its diesel cars, does it? Basically Audis.

ORD said: None of which would have any impact on sports cars, as Porsche doesnt really build its diesel cars, does it? Basically Audis. I have no doubt that there is more shared than we know. Especially, technical development etc. Theres a huge virus in VW Group and none of us know how wide this spreads yet. Remember that the cheating software may have been developed by a supplier, like Bosch? It could be industry wide.

ORD said: None of which would have any impact on sports cars, as Porsche doesnt really build its diesel cars, does it? Basically Audis. Who knows? Porsche's biggest profit centre is SUVs - a large proportion of which are diesels. Boxsters are produced at Osnabruck - a VW factory. At the moment it's quite impossible to see how this "virus" will spread, the impact it will have, and how VW group as a whole will try to regain profitability - particularly as we don't even know who the "new" CEO will be. Will it impact on sports car production and in what way? Will it affect Porsche's image or marketing strategy? How can we know? At one extreme VW could go to the wall/be taken over/be split up, at the other (if lots of other manufacturers are guilty) the "authorities" may try to smooth things over with far less draconian impact. The fact that German government seems to have been well aware that something dodgy was going on might seem to confirm that view. Given that diesel manufacture and sales in the US are far less significant than in Europe - US authorities might take a far harder line than would likely be the case in Europe. Far too many imponderables at the moment to predict what will happen. Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 23 September 20:35

Just got back from Frankfurt Motor Show (fabulous event). Spent some time on Porsche stand talking to a marketing guy who stated that definitely no PDK for Spyder. So thgat closes my own thread !! Alos told me that total Spyder production has been sold but wouldn't give full production numbers.

av185 said: VW will need their pots of cash with talk of a possible €37500 fine per offending car since 2009........... Pure hyperbole. No one in Europe is going to be stupid enough to put their biggest car manufacturer out of business. USA will flap about a bit as it's "foreigners" (see also BP and Piper Alpha). No one will be able to prove injury to health Even if VW had to buy back all the cars sold in USA it would only be at their used value - at which point they can be shipped to Africa (or wherever) and sold again. Whilst more than a storm in a teacup I really don't think this will ultimately be a very big deal. Personal opinion - if it gets some stinking diesels off the road that's absolutely fine by me!

WG said: marketing guy who stated that definitely no PDK for Spyder. So that closes my own thread !! Also told me that total Spyder production has been sold but wouldn't give full production numbers. Believe that if you want to. If customers are daft enough to queue up for Special Edition Porsches at full list price I'm pretty confident that Porsche will keep churning them out, each in a slightly different specification for "strictly limited production".

Ozzie Osmond said: WG said: marketing guy who stated that definitely no PDK for Spyder. So that closes my own thread !! Also told me that total Spyder production has been sold but wouldn't give full production numbers. Believe that if you want to. If customers are daft enough to queue up for Special Edition Porsches at full list price I'm pretty confident that Porsche will keep churning them out, each in a slightly different specification for "strictly limited production". Grinch! It seems to have worked well for these daft people so far. Depreciation proof cars!

Well it does seem as if Matttheboatman caused unnecessary hysteria by misquoting AP on PDK coming to the GT4, to the point where he suggests it got him in a bit of trouble with the bosses at Porsche, and made specific reference to it at the Rennsport event: "I read that in the internet as well. There is some individual that had an interview with me, apparently, which I don't know of, and some internet forums stated that there will be a PDK version of this car (points to the gt4 in front of him and he pauses briefly)...No sir, not the case, we will not do it. This is purely a manual car. Maybe in the future generations, when we will go on with this gt4 story, which I hope we will be able to do, we might make to the customer whether (we offer) PDK or not, but at this lifecycle for the 981 we just can't do it...so that was bad information and sorry for that. Caused a lot of trouble for me, believe me...(laughter in the audience)." http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-and-rs/895835-r... He has however suggested an increase in production of the current GT4, though unclear if this is for the US market only. From around 1600 to 2500-3000, but certainly less than 5000! Gives hope to those of us waiting in the wings.

mdianuk said: He has however suggested an increase in production of the current GT4, though unclear if this is for the US market only. From around 1600 to 2500-3000, but certainly less than 5000! Gives hope to those of us waiting in the wings. I thought production was going to be around 2500-3000 in the first place and not as low as 1600! The CaymanR had an overall production of circa 5100 cars of which split c3500 N.America and ROW c1600 of which UK got 15% of ROW cars(240 cars) although on the 987.2spyder the UK got 20% of the c1200 ROW cars(230) and NA c800 cars So even if they build 3000 cars cannot see UK getting more than 150-200 cars of which all allocations are sold so any increase if any must be for the N.America market which must be getting the bulk of GT4s if the CR production is anything to go by! Unless the 1600 refers to cars built upto 31.12.15 and the rest 900-1400 to be built in 1st quarter 2016 when demand/production falls for 981.1 as the 981.2 approaches ?

itsybitsy said: I thought production was going to be around 2500-3000 in the first place and not as low as 1600! I'm not sure, just going off what someone who was at the event said http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-and-rs/895835-r... 3. Worldwide GT4 production originally intended to be 1600. Now will be 2500 - 3000. And that will be it until next gen

Some of those additional cars will surely find their way into UK allocations. I do think there is something to this as my OPC is now at least anticipating more cars. Call it pure speculation, but I think Porsche will want to keep fueling the interest that has been generated thus far and drip feed a few more out the door. Though they definitely won't have PDK. That at least seems to have been made clear

Matttheboatman said: mdianuk said: I spoke to him on email D Don't you agree that implying you talked with AP was misleading if you did not? It may not be lie, but its not the truth either, is it? Give him a break for goodness sake. Just getting a Christmas card from Andreas Preuninger would be impressive.

cardigankid said: Give him a break for goodness sake. Just getting a Christmas card from Andreas Preuninger would be impressive. I suspect he's run away with his tail between his legs already, especially after AP outed him in public; following the statement is provided to me.

itsybitsy said: I thought production was going to be around 2500-3000 in the first place and not as low as 1600! The CaymanR had an overall production of circa 5100 cars of which split c3500 N.America and ROW c1600 of which UK got 15% of ROW cars(240 cars) although on the 987.2spyder the UK got 20% of the c1200 ROW cars(230) and NA c800 cars Uh... no. Are you just making up random numbers? 987.2 Cayman R: 2010: 10 2011: 977 2012: 151 1138 total 987.2 Spyder: 2009: 33 2010: 1418 2011: 493 1944 total Source: Porsche Museum Most of the Spyders went to the USA/California for obvious reasons, most of the CRs stayed in Europe. So there's a chance they'll build more 981.1 GT4 than CR/Spyder combined. Edited by EricE on Thursday 1st October 19:20

FWIW; Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport mit Doppelkupplungsgetriebe Im Gegensatz zu seinem Straßenbruder kommuniziert der Boxermotor im Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport nicht mit einem manuellen Sechsgangschalter, sondern einem Siebengang-Doppelkupplungsgetriebe. Für die Schaltvorgänge muss der Pilot also nicht mehr mit der rechten Hand nach unten greifen. Stattdessen zappt er über Lenkradwippen durch die Gänge. Die Leichtbau-Federbein-Vorderachse erbt der neue Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport direkt von seinem großen Bruder 911 GT3 Cup. Zu einer besseren Traktion und mehr Querdynamik verhilft dem Rennwagen eine mechanische Hinterachs-Quersperre, die es auch für den Straßen-GT4 gibt. Viele Leistungsdaten gibt Porsche noch nicht preis. Geschweige denn Fotos. Mit einem Gewicht von 1.300 Kilogramm – immerhin 40 kg weniger als die Straßenversion, dürfte der Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport etwas schneller auf 100 km/h beschleunigen können. Der Mittelmotorsportler für die Straße schafft den Spurt laut Hersteller in 4,4 Sekunden. Um Fahrt rauszunehmen, stoppt den Renner eine Rennbremsanlage mit im Durchmesser jeweils 380 Millimeter großen Stahlbremsscheiben http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/motorsport/neue...

Worth quite a lot http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-la-m... But it sounds like a genuine race-car - mind you a loss of 40kg doesn't sound like much if it genuinely is stripped out, even if a roll cage adds quite a bit. Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 6th October 16:50

EricE said: Uh... no. Are you just making up random numbers? 987.2 Cayman R: 2010: 10 2011: 977 2012: 151 1138 total 987.2 Spyder: 2009: 33 2010: 1418 2011: 493 1944 total Source: Porsche Museum Most of the Spyders went to the USA/California for obvious reasons, most of the CRs stayed in Europe. So there's a chance they'll build more 981.1 GT4 than CR/Spyder combined. Edited by EricE on Thursday 1st October 19:20 Just noticed this your figures for the spyder are correct but your CR ones are all wrong! For starters none were built in 2010 and going by chassis numbers over 1600 cars were delivered to rest of world alone and more than double went to the states! If you go on planet 9 back to march 2012 the guys in the states were receiving cars with chassis numbers higher than 3500( cannot remember exact number from over 4 years ago) I think it's you making up random numbers the CR was a bigger sales success than the spyder world wide!

I think some humble pie needs to be eaten and apologies given ??

itsybitsy said: Just noticed this your figures for the spyder are correct but your CR ones are all wrong! For starters none were built in 2010 and going by chassis numbers over 1600 cars were delivered to rest of world alone and more than double went to the states! If you go on planet 9 back to march 2012 the guys in the states were receiving cars with chassis numbers higher than 3500( cannot remember exact number from over 4 years ago) I think it's you making up random numbers the CR was a bigger sales success than the spyder world wide! I have no reason to doubt the numbers I posted, they were sourced directly from Porsche by a pff member and are IMO as close as we're going to get to official numbers. source The other postings in that topic back up the information. As of 2014 there were 563 Rs and 826 Spyders in North America according to https://admin.porschedealer.com (again, mentioned on pff) They also state that the Cayman Black Edition shared chassis numbers with the CR and despite that there were still more Spyders registered in Germany than CRs and Cayman Black Editions combined. (500 vs 288) The 10 CRs built in 2010 were preproduction or press cars. Here's a picture of a Cayman R taken in November 2010 at the LA auto show, it even says so in the background. and another link from Nov 2010 with a picture of a car: http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/los-angeles-... WG said: I think some humble pie needs to be eaten and apologies given ?? No thank you, you can keep your humble pie.

I was referring to the GT4/PDK issue with which I started this thread . Some very unkind things were said about the originator of the story and email conversations that did/did not take place!

WG said: I was referring to the GT4/PDK issue with which I started this thread . Some very unkind things were said about the originator of the story and email conversations that did/did not take place! Oh ok, apologies, I misunderstood. Didn't mean to derail the thread either...

EricE said: itsybitsy said: I have no reason to doubt the numbers I posted, they were sourced directly from Porsche by a pff member and are IMO as close as we're going to get to official numbers. source The other postings in that topic back up the information. As of 2014 there were 563 Rs and 826 Spyders in North America according to https://admin.porschedealer.com (again, mentioned on pff) They also state that the Cayman Black Edition shared chassis numbers with the CR and despite that there were still more Spyders registered in Germany than CRs and Cayman Black Editions combined. (500 vs 288) The 10 CRs built in 2010 were preproduction or press cars. Here's a picture of a Cayman R taken in November 2010 at the LA auto show, it even says so in the background. I am fully aware of the CR launch at the LA show November 2010 and there may have been preproduction cars but full production started in Finland early 2011 and switched to Stuttgart later in the year!the info you read on pff de is not that reliable and porsche never posts production numbers so chassis numbers although not an exact science does give a rough idea of numbers.On planet9 someone looked in to the USA numbers and seemed to think there was about 1400 cars delivered there ( seemed to think the numbers started at xxx2000 to xxx3xxx) unless porsche produce the numbers we will never know but imo there was defiiantely more CR than Spyders and in excess of 3000 worldwide even if you include B.E in the build numbers which I am not sure about without seeing a BE chassis number Back to topic