981 20" tyres - Michelin or Goodyear? - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I know there is another thread running on a very similar topic, but I though it was worth asking a specific question. I have 20" PZero N0's and I'm not happy with them. They seem to have extremely stiff sidewalls and even though they are only half worn, I'm seriously thinking about changing to the Goodyear F1 N0's as the reviews seem to suggest a significantly better driving experience. My question is - has anyone any first hand experience of the new Michelin PS4S N0's on a 981? I'm particularly interested in the ability of the tyre to provide the flowing driving experience I know these cars can provide. If anyone has moved from the F1's to the PS4S then even better! Thanks.

Cabsi, whilst a bit cheeky, I have 4 Michelin Pilot Super Sports for sale in the 20" tyre section on PH at a reasonable price. There are not N rated: however if you wanted to "try" Michelins, this might be a way to dip your toe...

ClarkeyDiem said: Cabsi, whilst a bit cheeky, I have 4 Michelin Pilot Super Sports for sale in the 20" tyre section on PH at a reasonable price. There are not N rated: however if you wanted to "try" Michelins, this might be a way to dip your toe... Thanks - appreciate the thought, but want to keep the N rating due to my OPC warranty.

Cabsi said: I know there is another thread running on a very similar topic, but I though it was worth asking a specific question. I have 20" PZero N0's and I'm not happy with them. They seem to have extremely stiff sidewalls and even though they are only half worn, I'm seriously thinking about changing to the Goodyear F1 N0's as the reviews seem to suggest a significantly better driving experience. My question is - has anyone any first hand experience of the new Michelin PS4S N0's on a 981? I'm particularly interested in the ability of the tyre to provide the flowing driving experience I know these cars can provide. If anyone has moved from the F1's to the PS4S then even better! Thanks. Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!!

I couldn't see N rated 20" PS4S versions for the 981 on the Michelin website yet. Are you sure they're available?

I don't think N-spec MPS4S are available for many Porsche sizes at the moment. The Goodyears are an excellent alternative - quiet and comfortable.

Koln-RS said: I don't think N-spec MPS4S are available for many Porsche sizes at the moment. The Goodyears are an excellent alternative - quiet and comfortable. Goodyears are a good tyre, Ps4s is a great tyre. remember the goodyear N spec is also not the latest F1 tyre. I liked the F1 for a bit but still binned them on my R and went PS4S non N spec.

Ummm. This is very strange - I'm pretty sure they were listed on the Michelin site a couple of weeks ago - but the Porsche version isn't there now. However, Tyre Shopper lists the fronts in N0 but not the backs... https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyres/235-35-20 Thanks for all the other comments. Guess we've all got our own views on the best tyres!

Cabsi said: Ummm. This is very strange - I'm pretty sure they were listed on the Michelin site a couple of weeks ago - but the Porsche version isn't there now. However, Tyre Shopper lists the fronts in N0 but not the backs... https://www.tyre-shopper.co.uk/tyres/235-35-20 Thanks for all the other comments. Guess we've all got our own views on the best tyres! I think the views come from people who have never had anything but p zero so anything is better lol I have ran every thing on my Porkers, Conti, p zero, Bridgestones, Googyear F1, Dunlop race maxx, MPSS , PS4S and the cup 2, Michelin are the clear winners by a long shot hence why every ring record is on "Michelin" and most super cars even the tail happy BMW ran MPSS to tame them, the CGT a car which would bite you ended up with MPSS also the only tyre to work on the car ! Most of the Hyper cars ran MPSS and new Ferrari are coming out with PS4S on them. So while views might be like belly buttons, the fact is "Michelin" are the best tyres backed up time and time again in every review, only EVO never rate "Michelin" as they never put a PS4S or MPSS on their tests lol they are paid buy Conti imo to avoid those 2 tyres in every car tyre test I can remember. While the new P1 zero N1 might be a good tyre, it's about the only one I have not used, I would not risk buying one going by their history. people also look at tyre reviews and then state that vs an old model which Porsche fit not the new releases. I run 2 cars on PS4S and 2 on CUP 2's, I have also ran at >6 sets of MPSS , they transformed my V8 BMW. when it comes to tyres "Michelin" seem to have it licked, they have now and back 10+ years ago they did with the PS2 of which I must have ran 10+ sets. Continental Sport Contact 6 seem to get good reviews but I don't trust the paid for adverts and have had bad Conti before. to end on a tyre review quote "The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S betters the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in every measurable category, and looks to extend its dominance over its rivals in the maximum performance tyre sector." Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 5th September 10:41

hixster said: Don't the the ps4s are out yet - I was active in the other thread. I settled on the new Pirelli N1s - I have 20" and these new tyres are amazing compare to the old N0 which were on the care previously. You won't be disappointed I'd echo that - you really wouldn't recognise them as the same brand of tyre if it wasn't written on the sidewall. I've tried N0 Goodyears too - better steering feel but too much understeer for my liking.

Porsche911R said: I think the views come from people who have never had anything but p zero so anything is better lol I have ran every thing on my Porkers, Conti, p zero, Bridgestones, Googyear F1, Dunlop race maxx, MPSS , PS4S and the cup 2, Michelin are the clear winners by a long shot hence why every ring record is on "Michelin" and most super cars even the tail happy BMW ran MPSS to tame them, the CGT a car which would bite you ended up with MPSS also the only tyre to work on the car ! Most of the Hyper cars ran MPSS and new Ferrari are coming out with PS4S on them. So while views might be like belly buttons, the fact is "Michelin" are the best tyres backed up time and time again in every review, only EVO never rate "Michelin" as they never put a PS4S or MPSS on their tests lol they are paid buy Conti imo to avoid those 2 tyres in every car tyre test I can remember. While the new P1 zero N1 might be a good tyre, it's about the only one I have not used, I would not risk buying one going by their history. people also look at tyre reviews and then state that vs an old model which Porsche fit not the new releases. I run 2 cars on PS4S and 2 on CUP 2's, I have also ran at >6 sets of MPSS , they transformed my V8 BMW. when it comes to tyres "Michelin" seem to have it licked, they have now and back 10+ years ago they did with the PS2 of which I must have ran 10+ sets. Continental Sport Contact 6 seem to get good reviews but I don't trust the paid for adverts and have had bad Conti before. to end on a tyre review quote "The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S betters the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in every measurable category, and looks to extend its dominance over its rivals in the maximum performance tyre sector." Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 5th September 10:41 Thank you 911R - you clearly have more experience of Porsche tyres than me! I do want N Rated tyres, and my only experience of Michelins was on my 987.2 CS. They were Pilot Sport 2 N2's and they seemed to have very stiff sidewalls leading to poor NVH in the cabin. They lasted well and the steering response and grip were very good, but the road noise and constant fidgeting was an issue for me. I realise that everyone has different requirements from a tyre, so you're right, everyone will have their own opinion. I don't track my car, so I'd gladly give up 10% on steering response and grip if the tyre allowed the chassis to 'breath' or 'flow' with the crappy roads we have to put up with in the UK. Tyres have such a big impact on the enjoyment we get from our cars, and I'm not a millionaire, so I just wish there was a better way of making sure we're making the right choice.

ginettajoe said: Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!! Thank you ginettajoe. It sounds like we have similar requirements when it comes to tyre choice! And my car has PASM as well (which I only use in comfort mode). BCR5784 mentions that the F1's are more prone to understeer - have you found that in the wet or dry?

bcr5784 said: I'd echo that - you really wouldn't recognise them as the same brand of tyre if it wasn't written on the sidewall. I've tried N0 Goodyears too - better steering feel but too much understeer for my liking. Thank you bcr5784. How would you compare the PZero N1's and N0 Goodyears for NVH characteristics?

I ran GY F1 A2 all round on my 2012 TTS after the original Toyos were worn out and found the GYs to be one of the best tyres I've had over 40 years. Also, after 10k miles they had worn only 1-2mm. I've never had Michelins on any car as it happens. Faced with cracking (not in a good way!) PZero N0's on my 981C (20" + PASM) I once again switched to the N marked GY F1 A2s. I don't track either and after 18k miles find them great in wet or dry. They are about half worn now, another 18k to go? I've researched PS4S to the hilt and I would fit them next time instead of the Goodyears but for these things: 1/ Michelin keep saying they're available in 235 and 265 20" N marked but I couldn't fine them last time I looked. 2/ Is there a problem with them, as they should have been out for the 718 launch? 3/ Why did a long serving Camskill tyre expert tell me owners are complaining about them? 4/ Do I want to pay 50% more for PS4S over the Goodyears I've been happy with? 5/ Will I regret spending £1000+ when they don't suit my driving style, whereas the Goodyears are perfectly fine? 6/ Why is it so difficult to find reviews of the PS4S on 20" Cayster wheels when they're supposed to be so good? I too wish to stay with N marked tyres due to my extended warranty.

Cabsi said: Thank you bcr5784. How would you compare the PZero N1's and N0 Goodyears for NVH characteristics? A bit difficult to be definite - I did a back to back test on my car (which has PASM) but with 18" Eagles and 19" N0 Pirellis. The ride was a bit better on Goodyears - but you would expect that with smaller rims - but bump thump was better on the Pirellis. (My tests were done in the dry so I have no experience of the Goodyears in the wet). The big difference between the N0 and N1 Pirellis is the progressiveness. On N0 Pirellis the car was very (excessively imo) "planted" - to the point where I was reluctant to push it because it was unclear how much grip remained. The car is much more "mobile" on N1s and much more playful and engaging as a result. As has been said N0 Pirellis scrub a lot on lock - N1s practically not at all at reasonable temperatures (I have a Winter set of Dunlops so can't say whether there is any scrub in really cold conditions.

bcr5784 said: A bit difficult to be definite - I did a back to back test on my car (which has PASM) but with 18" Eagles and 19" N0 Pirellis. The ride was a bit better on Goodyears - but you would expect that with smaller rims - but bump thump was better on the Pirellis. (My tests were done in the dry so I have no experience of the Goodyears in the wet). The big difference between the N0 and N1 Pirellis is the progressiveness. On N0 Pirellis the car was very (excessively imo) "planted" - to the point where I was reluctant to push it because it was unclear how much grip remained. The car is much more "mobile" on N1s and much more playful and engaging as a result. As has been said N0 Pirellis scrub a lot on lock - N1s practically not at all at reasonable temperatures (I have a Winter set of Dunlops so can't say whether there is any scrub in really cold conditions. I had Goodyear Eagles on my 981 BGTS and thought they were a really good road tyre in both the wet and dry, I also took them on track and they were fine for the odd track day always predictable. I don't think you would be disappointed and it seems the price is right as well.

Cabsi said: ginettajoe said: Before setting off on a 5000 mile trip around Europe in May, I changed from P Zero's to Goodyear Eagle F1's, the P Zeros had 5+ mm of tread! The difference was dramatic, much quieter, much smoother, the ride was transformed, and more importantly, I don't have a hint of "shuffle" even on full lock!! Fuel consumption was excellent, returning between 33 and 40+ mpg! The car is a 981 3.4 S Boxter, with 20" wheels, and PASM. The mileage I have covered now on the tyres, is in excess of 7000 miles, and the fronts still measure 7MM and the rears, 6.5MM of tread remaining!!! Fabulous tyres!!! Thank you ginettajoe. It sounds like we have similar requirements when it comes to tyre choice! And my car has PASM as well (which I only use in comfort mode). BCR5784 mentions that the F1's are more prone to understeer - have you found that in the wet or dry? My pleasure Cabsi, .... well, firstly, I race cars, predominantly front wheel drive, but occasionally rear wheel drive, and have done since 1985, and on top of that, my work is a race circuit instructor, working on several of the PCGB track days, but mainly coaching race drivers! I have no desire to track my 981, and neither do I drive it on the limit on the road, so for me, it is a difficult one to quantify!! "Understeer" is a very subjective characteristic which more often than not is created by the way the car is driven, rather than from the tyre itself! The way I coach, and obviously, the way I drive eliminate understeer, even on very underated tyres!! My evaluation of a tyre may be different to that of other drivers, where I'm looking for a tyre that is reasonably priced, works well in all conditions, provides a good ride, isn't noisy, and has excellent wear characteristics! Hence my admiration for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetric tyre! HTH Howard

Don't think the ps4s are out yet - I was active in the other thread. I settled on the new Pirelli N1s - I have 20" and these new tyres are amazing compare to the old N0 which were on the car previously. You won't be disappointed Edited by hixster on Tuesday 5th September 20:03

I do like the Goodyear F1s, and have run them on a number of vehicles, and found them to be, subjectively, excellent.

Thanks everyone. I think the choice has been made. I'm having a full Geo done tomorrow, and will see whether that enables me to live with the Pirellis. If not (and I suspect not), I will then be looking for the best deal on the Goodyears.

Cabsi said: Thanks everyone. I think the choice has been made. I'm having a full Geo done tomorrow, and will see whether that enables me to live with the Pirellis. If not (and I suspect not), I will then be looking for the best deal on the Goodyears. I'd suggest setting the rear toe towards the most toe OUT setting within spec. It will make the rear more mobile.

I am just about to swap out my P Zero N0s. The performance of them is good in the dry but they are not particularly progressive. After trying the 718S at the PEC on P Zero N1s I will be going for them. Whilst they are different cars, so difficult to fully compare, I found the N1s to be so much more intuitive. You couldn't lean on them quite as hard but they lost traction in a really progressive way. They may not have the ultimate grip levels of the N0s (really hard to tell), but I loved to confidence they gave me to play around at the limit.

bcr5784 said: I'd suggest setting the rear toe towards the most toe OUT setting within spec. It will make the rear more mobile. That's is a stupid recommendation. DO NOT DO THIS...

Porsche911R said: That's is a stupid recommendation. DO NOT DO THIS... Read what I wrote - WITHIN SPEC -ie still toed in. At the other end of the Spec it causes too much understeer and exaggerates the excessively planted feel you get with Pirelli N0s. I wouldn't particularly recommend it with N1s since the rear is already adequately mobile. Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 6th September 07:50

Just to report back - coincidentally my rear toe out was outside spec... but overall measurements weren't too bad. I now have more negative front camber (now outside spec) which has given me more turn in urgency, whilst the rear feels more planted. So its starting to come together. I'll live with this for a couple of weeks before I decide on the tyres. Thanks again.

Cabsi said: Just to report back - coincidentally my rear toe out was outside spec... but overall measurements weren't too bad. I now have more negative front camber (now outside spec) which has given me more turn in urgency, whilst the rear feels more planted. So its starting to come together. I'll live with this for a couple of weeks before I decide on the tyres. Thanks again. If you are happy with the MORE planted feel on the rear of your current setup I'm not sure you will be happy with the N1 Pirellis, or the Goodyears.

Porsche911R said: I think the views come from people who have never had anything but p zero so anything is better lol I have ran every thing on my Porkers, Conti, p zero, Bridgestones, Googyear F1, Dunlop race maxx, MPSS , PS4S and the cup 2, Michelin are the clear winners by a long shot hence why every ring record is on "Michelin" and most super cars even the tail happy BMW ran MPSS to tame them, the CGT a car which would bite you ended up with MPSS also the only tyre to work on the car ! Most of the Hyper cars ran MPSS and new Ferrari are coming out with PS4S on them. So while views might be like belly buttons, the fact is "Michelin" are the best tyres backed up time and time again in every review, only EVO never rate "Michelin" as they never put a PS4S or MPSS on their tests lol they are paid buy Conti imo to avoid those 2 tyres in every car tyre test I can remember. While the new P1 zero N1 might be a good tyre, it's about the only one I have not used, I would not risk buying one going by their history. people also look at tyre reviews and then state that vs an old model which Porsche fit not the new releases. I run 2 cars on PS4S and 2 on CUP 2's, I have also ran at >6 sets of MPSS , they transformed my V8 BMW. when it comes to tyres "Michelin" seem to have it licked, they have now and back 10+ years ago they did with the PS2 of which I must have ran 10+ sets. Continental Sport Contact 6 seem to get good reviews but I don't trust the paid for adverts and have had bad Conti before. to end on a tyre review quote "The new Michelin Pilot Sport 4S betters the Michelin Pilot Super Sport in every measurable category, and looks to extend its dominance over its rivals in the maximum performance tyre sector." Edited by Porsche911R on Tuesday 5th September 10:41 I would echo MrD's thoughts, but just to add OP I was in your situation a few months ago (see my thread) and in the end I went with the Goodyears rather than wait even longer for the heavily delayed PS4 S. While the goodyears are an improvement they are not quite as good as I was hoping when pushing on, they feel a little soft and the tread blocks do move. I find myself accidentally engaging traction control pulling away in the wet sometimes and also engaging the ABS on approach to roundabouts etc. - in situations where it really shouldn't. In comparison my 987 (which has the same engine as my 981) ran Michelin PS2s and was much more competent, and according to my VBOX actually stops quicker and generates more G in the corners. I can only attribute this to the Michelin tyres as there is no way Porsche would make the 981 chassis inferior. I will live contently with the Goodyears for another year, but I can't wait until the N rated PS4 S are out.

n4aat said: I am just about to swap out my P Zero N0s. The performance of them is good in the dry but they are not particularly progressive. After trying the 718S at the PEC on P Zero N1s I will be going for them. Whilst they are different cars, so difficult to fully compare, I found the N1s to be so much more intuitive. You couldn't lean on them quite as hard but they lost traction in a really progressive way. They may not have the ultimate grip levels of the N0s (really hard to tell), but I loved to confidence they gave me to play around at the limit. I changed my P Zero N0's on the 981 GTS recently to P Zero N1's and was impressed with the improvement in ride and feedback...I don't track the car and it's a daily drive so I've not pushed them too hard but they were a noticeable improvement in ride quality immediately. I have X73 suspension so feel everything on the road but did feel an immediate suppleness in the car that I'd not felt on the N0's. The car has also lost the low speed full lock chatter which I really didn't like so positive all round from my perspective

39sl said: I changed my P Zero N0's on the 981 GTS recently to P Zero N1's and was impressed with the improvement in ride and feedback...I don't track the car and it's a daily drive so I've not pushed them too hard but they were a noticeable improvement in ride quality immediately. I have X73 suspension so feel everything on the road but did feel an immediate suppleness in the car that I'd not felt on the N0's. The car has also lost the low speed full lock chatter which I really didn't like so positive all round from my perspective I find your ride comments interesting. I find no difference in ride vs N0 on my S with PASM and 19" rims. I suppose the lower profile tyres, harder suspension and tyre pressures of X73 must make your GTS more tyre sensitive to tyre characteristics. Otherwise I'm in sync with your comments.

Those of you with Michelins, do you have to clear that with insurance co or is it not a requirement to go with N rated?

No. 'N' spec has nothing to do with insurance.

ok that's good to know - i think i'm going to take the plunge and try the Pilot Sports 4S tyres. i have little experience but i really don't get on with the Pirellis, especially in the wet and even more so in the cold. car is in warranty though and i do intend to renew when the time comes (still a good year away). if i keep the Pirellis can't i just switch back if any warranty work/renewal comes up? i have 1st dibs on a lightly used set (of PS4Ss) in good condition and i've seen a few posts on here that seem to confirm what the seller is saying. what's the general consensus on buying used tyres? is it a no no?

I dumped some partly worn Pirellis for Goodyear Eagle on my 981 BGTS and didn't look back . Much better ride quality .Good all round tyre .

JasonSteel said: ok that's good to know - i think i'm going to take the plunge and try the Pilot Sports 4S tyres. i have little experience but i really don't get on with the Pirellis, especially in the wet and even more so in the cold. car is in warranty though and i do intend to renew when the time comes (still a good year away). if i keep the Pirellis can't i just switch back if any warranty work/renewal comes up? i have 1st dibs on a lightly used set (of PS4Ss) in good condition and i've seen a few posts on here that seem to confirm what the seller is saying. what's the general consensus on buying used tyres? is it a no no? PS4S in 20" are supposedly N marked, so Porsche approved. It's getting hold of a set which is the impossible factor. What sizes are the set you've found, and why is the seller getting rid? No good perhaps?

JasonSteel said: ok that's good to know - i think i'm going to take the plunge and try the Pilot Sports 4S tyres. i have little experience but i really don't get on with the Pirellis, especially in the wet and even more so in the cold. car is in warranty though and i do intend to renew when the time comes (still a good year away). if i keep the Pirellis can't i just switch back if any warranty work/renewal comes up? i have 1st dibs on a lightly used set (of PS4Ss) in good condition and i've seen a few posts on here that seem to confirm what the seller is saying. what's the general consensus on buying used tyres? is it a no no? There's an implied assumption that N1 Pirellis are like N0s. They really aren't.

DJMC said: PS4S in 20" are supposedly N marked, so Porsche approved. It's getting hold of a set which is the impossible factor. What sizes are the set you've found, and why is the seller getting rid? No good perhaps? When I looked recently there's still no 20" N rated PS4S available.

DJMC said: PS4S in 20" are supposedly N marked, so Porsche approved. It's getting hold of a set which is the impossible factor. What sizes are the set you've found, and why is the seller getting rid? No good perhaps? these aren't N rated, hence my point about swapping for the original Pirellis when warranty renewal time arrives, or if a warranty claim is needed. the sizes are 235/35/20 fronts and 265/35/20 rears, so the right sizes for the GTS. seller is supposedly selling due to upgrade to GT4 and selling his GTS back to Porsche (which of course requires the original tyres to be fitted). the overwhelming consensus on the Michelins (both is SS and PS4S variants) seems to be that they are a significant upgrade over the PZeros.

bcr5784 said: There's an implied assumption that N1 Pirellis are like N0s. They really aren't. that may well be the case but for me the Pirelli N0s are such a fail that i have no reason to 'reward' Pirelli with a purchase.

JasonSteel said: the overwhelming consensus on the Michelins (both is SS and PS4S variants) seems to be that they are a significant upgrade over the PZeros. I haven't seen anyone post who has tried both N1 Pirellis and Michelins, so I can't see there can be an "overwhelming concensus".

bcr5784 said: I haven't seen anyone post who has tried both N1 Pirellis and Michelins, so I can't see there can be an "overwhelming concensus". i meant with respect to the N0 Pirellis. the N0s - poor wet/cold performance and scuffing at full lock aside - also suffer from the terrible cracking problem. that's a pretty severe list of issues and i don't think i'll be going out of my way to get a a new set of Pirelli tyres any time soon, even if they are slightly improved over the N0s. i could be completely wrong of course and fitting the Michelins will do none of things i'm expecting.

bcr5784 said: I haven't seen anyone post who has tried both N1 Pirellis and Michelins, so I can't see there can be an "overwhelming concensus". No normal car nut would try the N1 , it's bound to be s t lol time will tell I guess but not worth the risk going from history of a load or poor tyres.

Several of us have for a variety of reasons tried them and found them a big step forward, and Much more to my taste than Goodyears. As far as I can see their detractors are people who have no experience of them.

Several of us have for a variety of reasons tried them and found them a big step forward, and Much more to my taste than Goodyears. As far as I can see their detractors are people who have no experience of them.

bcr5784 said: Several of us have for a variety of reasons tried them and found them a big step forward, and Much more to my taste than Goodyears. As far as I can see their detractors are people who have no experience of them. But you have come from the s ttest tyre on the market the n0 p zero and an averge tyre like the early good years, So it's should bloody well be better than either of those s tters lol. The people who have tried em are s t scared N spec wanabe's who have never tried a PS4s let alone the older mpss. Nothing to do with a variety of reason lol We have progress which should be a given, will it really perform vs the current best on the market today, who knows, not a risk I would take, I did that with Dunlop race max s t and binned £1.2k of s t there were.

Sheer prejudice I'm afraid. There aren't many PZ4 PZeros vs PS4S tests and none on Porkers as far as I am aware BUT all suggest PZ4 does run PS4S second and better in some areas. Yes Pirelli have produced some rubbish, but then I could say IMS, bore scoring, GT3 engines or VW diesels etc. You can write off any brand.

JasonSteel said: these aren't N rated, hence my point about swapping for the original Pirellis when warranty renewal time arrives, or if a warranty claim is needed. the sizes are 235/35/20 fronts and 265/35/20 rears, so the right sizes for the GTS. seller is supposedly selling due to upgrade to GT4 and selling his GTS back to Porsche (which of course requires the original tyres to be fitted). the overwhelming consensus on the Michelins (both is SS and PS4S variants) seems to be that they are a significant upgrade over the PZeros. Ah... got you. But what if the car breaks down and because of this you want to claim under warranty, but also to have Porsche come and pick it up 300 miles from your home? Would you instead go to all the hassle of changing the tyres back at 2am on 1st January in a freezing blizzard? If the issue isn't tyre related you should be fine of course... but will you? Personally I think used, non-N marked, tyres are a no no. Used tyres because their usage is unknown. Non-N due to sod's law, as above.

DJMC said: Ah... got you. But what if the car breaks down and because of this you want to claim under warranty, but also to have Porsche come and pick it up 300 miles from your home? Would you instead go to all the hassle of changing the tyres back at 2am on 1st January in a freezing blizzard? If the issue isn't tyre related you should be fine of course... but will you? Personally I think used, non-N marked, tyres are a no no. Used tyres because their usage is unknown. Non-N due to sod's law, as above. these are exactly the kinds of questions i've been asking myself and if i'm honest my conclusion is the same as yours. really don't get along with the Pirellis though and considering the rear tyres have only done about 2k miles i can't justify a full on ~£1k expense for a new set of N spec so i think i'm going to try the Michelins to see if they change the feel and handling in the way that i think they will.

anonymous said: [redacted] Before fitting my full Zunsport set (front rads, side rads, rear) I asked Avril at OPC Sutton Coldfield, who had been a technician and service adviser for 17 years. She advised there was no issue fitting the grilles and they would not affect the warranty. This was during a visit to them to remove a leaf which was fluttering in a side intake cooling fan. When my 981 went in for service at OPC Leics last year the service staff admired the grills and said what a good idea they were. Before my 981 went in a few months ago to OPC Leics for a 111 point check and 2 year warranty extension I checked with the service staff beforehand who said they'd be fine. There were no advisories or comments regarding the grills on the 111 point check paperwork and the warranty was approved with no queries. Hope that helps?

DJMC said: Before fitting my full Zunsport set (front rads, side rads, rear) I asked Avril at OPC Sutton Coldfield, who had been a technician and service adviser for 17 years. She advised there was no issue fitting the grilles and they would not affect the warranty. This was during a visit to them to remove a leaf which was fluttering in a side intake cooling fan. When my 981 went in for service at OPC Leics last year the service staff admired the grills and said what a good idea they were. Before my 981 went in a few months ago to OPC Leics for a 111 point check and 2 year warranty extension I checked with the service staff beforehand who said they'd be fine. There were no advisories or comments regarding the grills on the 111 point check paperwork and the warranty was approved with no queries. Hope that helps? Agreed had similar conversations with OPC Nottingham who have no problem with Zunsport grilles, it also saves on warranty claims for damaged rads.

Geoff39GL said: Agreed had similar conversations with OPC Nottingham who have no problem with Zunsport grilles, it also saves on warranty claims for damaged rads. have they put this in writing? my car had Zunsports fitted when i went to see it and they had to take them off to sell it to me. i asked them to leave them in the car and have since put them back on but speaking to the sales guy he said that it would void the warranty if the problem was in any way related to the engine overheating. back on topic though, have any of you had any similar conversations regarding non N spec tyres? Edited by JasonSteel on Monday 18th September 09:41

JasonSteel said: have they put this in writing? my car had Zunsports fitted when i went to see it and they had to take them off to sell it to me. i asked them to leave them in the car and have since put them back on but speaking to the sales guy he said that it would void the warranty if the problem was in any way related to the engine overheating. back on topic though, have any of you had any similar conversations regarding non N spec tyres? Edited by JasonSteel on Monday 18th September 09:41 Only insofar as they put it through the 111 point check and issued the warranty with the grilles fitted. If you ring PGB I'm sure they'd say no to the grilles! My OPC are firm on N marked tyres for warranty. How tyres could be implicated in a warranty claim I'm not sure. Bearing failure perhaps, or steering failure? Anything connected to the wheels perhaps!! I don't wish to have that argument.

Fellas, what are your views on tyre roar with the various makes? I had P Zero N0s on my Cayman S and now GY Eagle F1s on my CGTS. I think noise from the tyres is about the same. PZN1s any quieter maybe? I think the Eagles give rather a harsher ride - and both cars have/had PASM. Thoughts?

The GYs should give a quieter ride (look at the noise levels on the tyre label) and the ride should feel more compliant. Certainly my experience.

I had the N0 on our Boxster GTS for 12k miles and now switched to the N1's. They are quantifiably better in wet and dry. I also had the N1's on my 991.2 GTS - again nothing but praise for them.

Koln-RS said: The GYs should give a quieter ride (look at the noise levels on the tyre label) and the ride should feel more compliant. Certainly my experience. I did 5k miles on PZero N0 and now 18k miles on GY F1 A2 and I haven't noticed a noise reduction one to the other. GYs are certainly more compliant than the concrete like Pirellis, more so when in the winter when they're cold. By the way... phoned Michelin just now and both 235 & 265 20" N0 marked PS4S are due to launch in November. I said I could already buy the 235s from Tyreleader but they doubted this. They are going to double check. I have no more confidence that Michelin know what they are doing or when/if these will ever be launched than before I made the call! Having dealt with Pirelli and Goodyear customer services previously I have no issues with the way they handle enquiries whereas Michelin customer services call handling makes me question their tyres handling.

Tyreleader have confirmed by email they DO have the 235 35 20 N0 PS4S in stock as per their website 30 minutes ago... ...but when I checked just now (I saved the link) it has disappeared. Could it be Michelin are correct!

DJMC said: Michelin customer services call handling makes me question their tyres handling. lol I doubt the people on the phone even know what N spec is, just people sitting in front of computers pressing buttons. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 20th September 11:56

Thanks x3.

Email received this morning...

Does that mean they may be available in Europe? I wonder!

it's a joke as Porsche will not have tested or passed that tyre for the 981. You can fit a tyre from a front CGT to a rear Cayman and OPC's are happy lol the whole thing is laughable really. better off running non N spec on any older car imo.

Just getting Michelin Pilot 4 S installed on my Boxster 981 after Pirelli N0s !!! Cannot wait to drive off! All N0 approved and also load rating not an issue... see emails below... Regarding your query for the Porsche N0 specification for the MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S in tyre size 265/35 R20 Y 99 and 235/35 R20 Y 92 I can confirm that the MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S comes with the Porsche N0 marking in both tyre sizes. MICHELIN Pilot Sport 4 S https://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sp... Listed below are the article numbers for this specific tyre. 265/35 R20 99 Y : 459004 235/35 R20 Y 92 : 393060 In addition, on this link you can find the nearest Michelin dealers in your area: https://dealers.michelin.co.uk/ You can contact any one of them for availability and price. I hope this information is helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you have any further questions or concerns, we will be more than happy to help. MICHELIN is happy to accompany you on every journey and would like to thank you for your confidence. It is correct that the load index of 99 = 775kg is higher than the 95 = 690kg. Therefore it should not be a problem mounting the 99. The general rule is as follows: For summer tyres you can use the same Speed/load Index or higher - For winter tyres the opposite applies. The same or lower speed index only. But to be 100% certain please get in touch with Porsche, for their requirement. Edited by Sportscarfan on Friday 4th May 16:18

Sportscarfan said: On the other hand Michelins have less noise, no whaling at 50-60 mph like with Pirelli N0 ... and pretty damn good grip! Are you sure about the "less noise" bit...An area which the Michelins are regarded as weak generally.

I've just gone from Pzero's to MPS4S and I think they are slightly quieter on my commute along the M1.

I’ve had MPS4s in for about 1,000 miles. Crabbing is a lot less when manoeuvring and tyre noise is definitely better. No noise on motorways now. Dry grip appears no different. Not been out in the rain yet. Passed my 111 point check with them on. They are good but not night and day different to the Pirellis.

bcr5784 said: Sportscarfan said: On the other hand Michelins have less noise, no whaling at 50-60 mph like with Pirelli N0 ... and pretty damn good grip! Are you sure about the "less noise" bit...An area which the Michelins are regarded as weak generally. The whaling of the first note of “The Imperial March” is gone! ( not saying this because of today’s date!) I mean a real note could be heard.. Now with Pilots there is a different, quieter, a bit raspy sound but no note! Goodyear assymmetric 2 could be the most quiet but it is fairly old tyre. 3 is on the market but no N-rating.

n4aat said: I’ve had MPS4s in for about 1,000 miles. Crabbing is a lot less when manoeuvring and tyre noise is definitely better. No noise on motorways. Passed my 111 point check with them on. Second this! Thumbs up for passing the checks!

Porsche911R said: it's a joke as Porsche will not have tested or passed that tyre for the 981. You can fit a tyre from a front CGT to a rear Cayman and OPC's are happy lol the whole thing is laughable really. better off running non N spec on any older car imo. Porsche's own N-rated tyre list is dated 1/2017!!! Not sure if Michelin would really start a fight with Porsche on this issue by prematurely N-marking the tyres with no understanding that it would not get approval in the near future. Or .. perhaps Porsche has decided not to stock Pilot 4 S while they have their own stock (of Pirellis and Goodyears) to get rid of.. Of course.. you could be right! I'll have a chat with Porsche when I see them next week. If nothing I'll just cancel my warranty starting 1.6. as it has not yet kicked in! On the other hand Michelins have less noise, no whaling at 50-60 mph like with Pirelli N0 ... and pretty damn good grip! Edited by Sportscarfan on Friday 4th May 21:54

Porsche911R said: it's a joke as Porsche will not have tested or passed that tyre for the 981. You can fit a tyre from a front CGT to a rear Cayman and OPC's are happy lol the whole thing is laughable really. better off running non N spec on any older car imo. So, what model takes the 99Y rears? The 981 is 95Y as you know. Is it the 718? Jamie McWhir at Michelin told me two years ago the 20" PS4 was being developed for the 718 launch. I now know this to be piffle. Never seen a 718 with Michelin from the factory. Not being 95Y would put me off the PS4S on my 981. My Goodyear AS2 have been excellent but I'd like to try the PS4S next IF they met the correct spec for my car. Bizarre, unless the 718 is 99Y and they see this as the bigger market?

DJMC said: Never seen a 718 with Michelin from the factory. no idea what the standard delivery tyre is but i remember seeing this when the GTS was launched: https://youtu.be/paa9z9_RM-U?t=34s if it doesn't automatically start at the right point go to 34secs.

DJMC said: So, what model takes the 99Y rears? The 981 is 95Y as you know. Is it the 718? Jamie McWhir at Michelin told me two years ago the 20" PS4 was being developed for the 718 launch. I now know this to be piffle. Never seen a 718 with Michelin from the factory. Not being 95Y would put me off the PS4S on my 981. My Goodyear AS2 have been excellent but I'd like to try the PS4S next IF they met the correct spec for my car. Bizarre, unless the 718 is 99Y and they see this as the bigger market? PS4S is XL tyre (sides enforced) and thus can carry more weight ... so that is OK as the tyre exceeds the Porsche requirement. See Michelin email below. Also, note that n4aat got his/her 981 with Pilots pass the 111 check by Porsche Centre. It is correct that the load index of 99 = 775kg is higher than the 95 = 690kg. Therefore it should not be a problem mounting the 99. The general rule is as follows: For summer tyres you can use the same Speed/load Index or higher - For winter tyres the opposite applies. The same or lower speed index only. But to be 100% certain please get in touch with Porsche, for their requirement. Edited by Sportscarfan on Saturday 5th May 15:35

JasonSteel said: no idea what the standard delivery tyre is but i remember seeing this when the GTS was launched: https://youtu.be/paa9z9_RM-U?t=34s if it doesn't automatically start at the right point go to 34secs. ... this forum needs an easier like/thumbs up button ...

Sportscarfan said: Also, note that n4aat got his/her 981 with Pilots pass the 111 check by Porsche Centre. I’m a boy!

n4aat said: Sportscarfan said: Also, note that n4aat got his/her 981 with Pilots pass the 111 check by Porsche Centre. I’m a boy! Sure... did not check your info!

Sorry for the thread revival but I’m currently looking at replacement tyres for my 981 Cayman 2.7. I currently have 20” wheels with Pirelli P-Zero N1’s fitted - they were on the car when I bought it. I’ve had a few sports/performance cars over the years and always ditched the Pirellis ASAP, usually for PS4 or PS4S, and I’ve noticed a real difference in ride quality, noise, wet grip etc. My Cayman does not have PASM and I do find the ride pretty firm on poor quality road surfaces on the Pirelli’s. I was about to pull the trigger on a set of Goodyear Eagle F1’s (the N-rated ones, AS2) as they aren’t XL rated and thus have a more compliant sidewall than the PS4S. However I do also recognise that they will ultimately have a bit less grip and inferior turn in. The AS2’s are a few years old now of course but I’ve seen a number of Caymans with them fitted when I was looking for mine. Can anyone comment on the Eagle F1 handling/feel compared to PS4S? I’m familiar with the latter but not on a Cayman (actually an Evora). Thanks in advance…..

I binned the Pirelli N1s my car came with as soon as possible and switched to F1s, it was a revelation. In the cold and wet they are vastly improved, they are also a little quieter. I don't have PASM but don't remember much difference in the ride quality. Can't comment on Michelins as they don't come in my wheel size (18"s) but general feedback on here seems to be good (bar the odd one or two who just seem to want to argue for the sake of it.)

My 2020 Cayman GTS 4.0 came on Pirellis. I've done 6k miles on them, and have decided that whilst they are fine in the warm, they just don't have the performance when the temperature drops, or the roads are wet. I've noticed if I really work them, they'll come into some sort of temperature window, but they are horrible when cold. PS4S have been put on the car today; I'll be collecting later! Every car I've had PS4S on has been improved by them. My ML63 has them on as well, and the grip is ridiculous for something so massive. Edited by thecrow on Thursday 27th January 14:09