2002 986 S on 140K miles and not moved for 2 years. Buy? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Am aware of a car that up until 2 years ago was doing 100 mile a day trips, but has not turned a wheel since (SORNed and not MOT'ed). Was pretty well maintained up until then, but am not sure of the position re IMS and clutch. Pretty sure the owner has all the paperwork during his time which is around 10 years (and may have more) so I could have a rummage through, if/when it seems like a good idea to even consider the car further. It would be a sunny day weekend car for me, but would also like to do the Northern 500 and make a trip to relatives at the bottom end of France. Having sat outside for 2 years is this simply too big a risk to take or at the right price is it worth a shot?...raises the question of course of what would the right price be!!. Having watched this video I am guessing this guy just struck lucky at the price he paid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ohkh19fsg Also have read through this thread by Rosewood Red, though sounds a little scary totting up all the things he has "invested" in Any guidance/thoughts from the wise souls of PH please before I trek off to take a look (its not that local)?

money pit. Skip it. Its got disaster written all over it.

It stopped being driven for a reason, most likely an expensive one. Budget at least £5,000 to get it fixed.

It was a drive to work car (I worked with the owner), but a change of work meant it was a cycle ride away, and with other cars of the driveway for family duties, it got left...and left !!

3anascooter said: Am aware of a car that up until 2 years ago was doing 100 mile a day trips, but has not turned a wheel since (SORNed and not MOT'ed). Was pretty well maintained up until then, but am not sure of the position re IMS and clutch. Pretty sure the owner has all the paperwork during his time which is around 10 years (and may have more) so I could have a rummage through, if/when it seems like a good idea to even consider the car further. It would be a sunny day weekend car for me, but would also like to do the Northern 500 and make a trip to relatives at the bottom end of France. Having sat outside for 2 years is this simply too big a risk to take or at the right price is it worth a shot?...raises the question of course of what would the right price be!!. Having watched this video I am guessing this guy just struck lucky at the price he paid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ohkh19fsg Also have read through this thread by Rosewood Red, though sounds a little scary totting up all the things he has "invested" in Any guidance/thoughts from the wise souls of PH please before I trek off to take a look (its not that local)? \ Don't listen to all the doomsters here...if it's a car you know, there's nothing that can't be put right. If you are not mechanically minded yourself, then get the car inspected. If you do buy it, then get a major service done at a good specialist who know what they're doing, and have the usual issues addressed, and you'll have years of happy motoring ahead.

14 said: It stopped being driven for a reason, most likely an expensive one. Budget at least £5,000 to get it fixed. It got stopped driving 2 years ago - what might have happened 2 years ago to well reduce peoples miles…. Covid WFH maybe owner had long covid. If 2 years sat worries people please don’t ever watch vice grip garage and similar on YouTube wheee they dig out cars sunk into mud / swamp for 30-70 years they start and get out on the road. 2 years in the UK it’s laughable to think it’s ruined. £700-900k I LOL at the 900k. Another believes it’s £5k to fix it up. Come off it ilyou could buy another equivalent for £5k

3anascooter said: Also have read through this thread by Rosewood Red, though sounds a little scary totting up all the things he has "invested" in Any guidance/thoughts from the wise souls of PH please before I trek off to take a look (its not that local)? You might like to have a read too of the Not A Bargain Boxster thread in Readers' Cars from the last couple of days. I bought a much younger and lower mileage 986 several years ago, based on that experience my guess would be that this one would hit you with similar problems and more to those in the above thread.

Welshbeef said: Another believes it’s £5k to fix it up. Come off it ilyou could buy another equivalent for £5k Based on my personal experience it may need several £k spending to get it properly sorted if you're paying someone else to do it. Some of that may be discretionary - tired/noisy suspension for example - but if you're going to have one of these it needs to be in good order to enjoy it.

I think the devil will be in the detail in terms of its service history. If it's had IMS and clutch replacement in recent times then with a small budget for consumables you might be on to a winner. If it's really tatty and none of the major jobs have been done then it'll likely be a false economy. That said, they don't need to be pristine or on fresh suspension to be enjoyable, it's just that they 'go up a level' when they've had a refresh. It sort of depends what you want out of it... Also, taller people can struggle with them ergonomically. It may be best to have a sit/drive in another one locally before going much further. Edited by KPB1973 on Monday 17th January 09:54

I wouldn't spend money on the IMS if it hasn't been done and there are no warning signs Makes no difference to how it drives. Mine was still ok (3.2 2003) when I got rid at 17 years old. It's a gamble sure, but the odds are well in your favour that it won't go bang.

can you view it before buying? id want to see if the interior is mouldy /wet under the seats (ecus there) and put a battery on it and start it up ...if it runs and the inside isnt wet /no puddles of oil under car id go for it if its the right price

Welshbeef said: 2 years in the UK it’s laughable to think it’s ruined. £700-900k I LOL at the 900k. Another believes it’s £5k to fix it up. Come off it ilyou could buy another equivalent for £5k And this other "equivalent for £5k" Boxster will be as good as gold won't it? Unless you've owned a 9x6, you shouldn't comment. Stick to the 944s you know: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... 3anascooter said: Also have read through this thread by Rosewood Red, though sounds a little scary totting up all the things he has "invested" in The artist formerly known as Rosewood Red here. Which thread are you talking of? My blue 2.7, or my yellow 3.2? Not too much more to say, apart from to go in with your eyes open. It is possible to buy a car for around the £5k mark, which may be fine, but you it can easily consume the purchase price again in maintenance over 18 months. Buying one at say £7k is also no guarantee of a superior car. How the car has (or not) been maintained over the last few years is a better indication than the price point it's advertised at. As with everything, caveat emptor. The IMS issue is blown out of proportion by the way - have heard of more replacement / "upgraded" IMSB failing than I have original items. The IMSB was never designed to be removed, or replaced without splitting the crankcase, and I'd hazard a guess this is a contributing factor. Important things to look out for: - Regular oil changes: A car may have only done 10k miles in 6 years, but hasn't had an oil change. This isn't good. - Suspension: Arms, mounts, dampers wear out. The cars will soldier on, but a car on worn suspension vs not worn (I'm not saying fresh) is night and day - Coolant system / AC: Radiators and condensers wear out, water pumps can go bad (YMMV), coolant tanks split - Transmission: Fluid intervals are 96k miles, but many don't get changed. Clutches are usually worn out by 80k. They'll drive "okay" but will be super heavy. They should be light. Again, night and day difference between worn Vs not worn - Engine: Generally reliable. IMSB issue exaggerated. Do not take well to irregular oil changes or running hot (see coolant system). Still may s t themselves for no apparent reason (the IMSB is not the only thing that can fail). They are however wonderful cars when they're running right.

I love a scrap spares or repair 944 whilst chomping a 9 year old Mars bar .

I bought a 1996 2.5 from a facebook ad last summer and put a deposit down before seeing it. Had done 78k miles, had been in the same ownership for 18 years but little used for last 5. Paid £4k. Drove nicely on a short test drtive. Only obvious issue was the horn press being over sensitive (common - fixes all on line). Having been little used 20 miles later it decided to throw various warning lights and missfire, Northway took a quick look at it for me the same morning and charged me £80 to swap a defective coil pack. It still had a very slight occassional miss and my mechanic son suggested some fresh 99ron fuel - which after a few miles sorted things. It drove the 250 miles home without issue. I spent about £300 with D-911 and got all filters, including fuel, plugs, plug tubes, coil packs. Plus a pair of rear tyres. Local garage serviced and inspected it and said all good. They said the fuel filter was dated 2001 and was full of crap as they dont get changed - so i'd do this on any 986. Car subsequently runs great. Like the moneypit one garage has said the manifold studs are corroded so will need work when the exhaust or engine come out at some point but other than that its been great - smooth, quick and nice soundtrack with roof down. Boxsters are a bargain Porsche at the moment - much faster, more modern and better ownership proposition than a 924/944 for less money. Must have reached the bottom imho. Im treating it as a modern classic as opposed to a car that needs to be maintained to new standards etc... Edited by bennno on Monday 17th January 13:52

jamie w said: I wouldn't spend money on the IMS if it hasn't been done and there are no warning signs Makes no difference to how it drives. Mine was still ok (3.2 2003) when I got rid at 17 years old. It's a gamble sure, but the odds are well in your favour that it won't go bang. That's a fair point and 2 out of 3 of mine haven't been done. I think my point to the OP was badly explained - if the car he's looking at has had it replaced, it does add a bit of inherent peace of mind, and perhaps a bit of value/bargaining power when it comes to resale. When I sold my last one, both people who came to view it said that it was something they looked for when shortlisting - simply because it is mentioned so often in Buyer's Guides.

Welshbeef said: 2 years in the UK it’s laughable to think it’s ruined. £700-900k I LOL at the 900k. What?

Just to add to some of the advice already given, another thing to factor in is the cost of brake replacement. Chances are if stood outside for a couple of years without moving they’d be pretty rusted. Porsche discs on 986 / 987 & equivalent 996 / 997 models suffer from corroded discs, especially on inside faces, on cars that are regularly used. Complete brake refresh, even if you’re competent with the spanner’s, will be a circa £600 job all round. However, having said that, with the mileage at 140k, I wouldn’t expect the IMS bearing would cause any issues, they generally fail at much lower mileages. If it’s cheap enough then get it bought, what’s the worst that can happen?! Probably could break it for more than you pay for it…

Boxstercol said: Just to add to some of the advice already given, another thing to factor in is the cost of brake replacement. Chances are if stood outside for a couple of years without moving they’d be pretty rusted. Porsche discs on 986 / 987 & equivalent 996 / 997 models suffer from corroded discs, especially on inside faces, on cars that are regularly used. Complete brake refresh, even if you’re competent with the spanner’s, will be a circa £600 job all round. However, having said that, with the mileage at 140k, I wouldn’t expect the IMS bearing would cause any issues, they generally fail at much lower mileages. If it’s cheap enough then get it bought, what’s the worst that can happen?! Probably could break it for more than you pay for it… If you are competent with spanners then a full set of disks and pads can be had from GSF for £400. In the case I'd be worried as to why it just got parked up and whether it's been sat in a garage or outdoors for 2years.

Many thanks all. The car is a couple of hours away so not too difficult to go take a look. Of course the million dollar question is "what would a good price be" and that price would differ I guess depending on whether I trailer it away as is, or if its mot-ed and drivable home. Maybe easier to spend £9-10k on a fully functioning one, but as with any used car that still carries risks.

3anascooter said: Many thanks all. The car is a couple of hours away so not too difficult to go take a look. Of course the million dollar question is "what would a good price be" and that price would differ I guess depending on whether I trailer it away as is, or if its mot-ed and drivable home. Maybe easier to spend £9-10k on a fully functioning one, but as with any used car that still carries risks. 2-4K without an MOT, depends if it starts and runs beyond that.....

Agree, £2-4k would be a fair ballpark to work in. If you take a look, maybe make yourself a checklist of what stuff these typically need money spent on. A good deal of the common stuff is mentioned in this thread, plenty of other info about too. "Pretty well maintained", could mean anything from just an occasional budget oil change to fastidious servicing on time plus replacement of any item showing wear as required. If you know and trust the seller you should be able to get an idea of where in the spectrum their maintenance regime has been. If it looks like it's been just an oil change then I'd be very suprised if there isn't a list of stuff that would need doing. Yeah some of it may not prevent the car from being driven but imo there's no point in having one of these if it doesn't drive and handle as it was designed to. And if you decide to look at £9-10k stuff, sensible to use the same checklist! They might look shiny and clean but spending that amount will not guarantee you a 986 that doesn't need work.

Well I might as well chuck my story in here. I bought a 100k 2001 3.2S for £5,100 about 2 1/2 years ago. It is my only car. It had barely moved for a few years prior to me buying it. The story being that it got traded in for a MUCH higher value car, and passed around the trade for a while trying to find the right market for a bottom of the range Porsche, then ended up with the small driveway dealer I bought it from, who kept it for a year or so as an occasional fun car for himself before selling it on. It had a full set of service stamps in the book ... but no supporting paperwork at all. So no idea what (if any) remedial work on the big headline issues had been done. Since then, aside from a couple of services and a set of tyres, all it's cost me is 1 drop link and 1 passenger door lock. Combined those were under £50 (the door lock was 2nd hand). My view is that the IMS bearing is overhyped. If it happens to you, I'm sure it feels like the end of the world. But there's a roughly 9 in 10 chance that it never would (of all the failure rates I've heard, none of them have been over 10%). And of that remaining 1 in 10, a lot of those will have had some form of remedial work done. And with buying a 100k+ car, if it was going to happen, the chances are that it would have already. So those thoughts combine together to ensure it's not something I've ever worried about. Thanks to Covid and all the associated malarkey, I've only done about 7500 miles since buying it ... but I think they've been very cheap, depreciation free miles, with 100% reliability. I have learned that the battery will only hold charge for about 2.5-3 weeks of the car being unused. Through lockdown it did need several bump starts! I now try and give it a decent run at least once a month as well as nipping to the supermarket once a week for my shopping. I'm sure things will improve when I'm back in the office more and doing a little more mileage. So yes ... it could be a money pit. It could also be completely sound and do you sterling service. I'd ignore the horror stories and look more at the general condition of the car. One that needs a lot of work will cost an arm and a leg to put right. But just because it's old, cheap, high mileage and been laid up for a while, doesn't automatically make it one of those. I'd like to think I could get out of mine for at least what I paid for it ... so yes, there can be such a thing as a cheap Porsche. Final thought - keep it on a trickle charger if it's only going to be an occasional car!

Thanks gents...and interesting read from Rotary Potato and others in the Readers Cars thread. Planning to go take a look Saturday week and have a bit of lunch with my old colleague. Will report back

3anascooter said: Thanks gents...and interesting read from Rotary Potato and others in the Readers Cars thread. Planning to go take a look Saturday week and have a bit of lunch with my old colleague. Will report back Good luck! It'll probably run like a bag o' nails after sitting for so long. Don't forget your jump leads, and it might be worth researching how to open the frunk when the battery is flat by using the jumper point in the fuse box.

Thanks KPB1973....i checked with him and seems that he left the frunk chocked open a little, having been caught out before !!

Any update OP?

Might be taking a look this weekend. Owner put a new battery in it, tipped a bit of Mobil 1 in the top (to put a bit of oil up top) and turned the key. It started almost instantly. Left it to idle until the rad fans kicked in and drove it a couple of metres forward and backward (on drive) so nothing was seized He did mention a damp patch in the rear boot. Think he is now considering servicing it and getting it MOT-ed with view to selling as a fully functioning car. Looks like WYAC values it around £3600 so I'd guess a private sale would bring in a bit more. Of course the risk he has is how much will a service and MOT cost, depending on what they find...and would the resale price be high enough to get his money back. Also think he might be of the mind to just keep it if he gets it running again, so lets see what happens

3anascooter said: Might be taking a look this weekend. Owner put a new battery in it, tipped a bit of Mobil 1 in the top (to put a bit of oil up top) and turned the key. It started almost instantly. Left it to idle until the rad fans kicked in and drove it a couple of metres forward and backward (on drive) so nothing was seized He did mention a damp patch in the rear boot. Think he is now considering servicing it and getting it MOT-ed with view to selling as a fully functioning car. Looks like WYAC values it around £3600 so I'd guess a private sale would bring in a bit more. Of course the risk he has is how much will a service and MOT cost, depending on what they find...and would the resale price be high enough to get his money back. Also think he might be of the mind to just keep it if he gets it running again, so lets see what happens See people get hung up on big miles and sat unused but generally cars are far more robust than many give them credit. I guess whatever the outcome here is - it will certainly end with a great car back on the road and not destined as scrap/spares

Yes be good to keep it on the road whoever the keeper is SWMBO has suggested a Mercedes ML350 for the trip to Venice and Budapest, so might be hunting some of them down too. Not much on the Merc thread here about them (that i can find)

Thanks for the update. It's amazing that the WBAC value is anywhere near that. Px values on them until very recently were absolute peanuts because they were considered troublesome and undesirable! The damp patch in the boot might be cracked expansion tank and/or the original screw top failing. I had both with my first 986 S. The former is obviously a lot harder to fix due to limited access.

Well folks, it was a rather quick look. While I am only 5-11 tall, I have a short body and long legs, and the seat won't go back far enough to be comfy. Previously had a Carrera 996 but of course that had more room (as we didn't use the rear seats) So a Boxster is off my shopping list. Car didn't look too bad for being sat outside, though owner had given it a wash and cleaned roof in and out. Usual Boxster issues with slight damp boot, and front carpets (but not under or behind seats). Signs of condensation inside windows and in the VIN number panel. Headlights also showing signs of condensation and rear plastic window has that glazed/opaque look. While its been parked up the displays on the air con panel have both died with a funny pattern on them so would need an ebay replacement. So options now are to spend a bit more (about £8K) on a Z4 or an SL350 as I can't think of any other spacious 2 seat convertibles

Well, on the bright side at least you didn't get carried away and then regret it at a later date. I'm the same height as you and likewise struggled with the position of the steering wheel, but got used to it. I did tend to get knee/hip pain (which isn't totally resolved by swapping to a 987.2) so I have a difficult decision to make. I can't think of much else to recommend for your budget, unless you want to see if a cheapo 2.7 987 works for you? http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2021012081...

I did wonder if the 987 had a little more seat movement/leg room Have taken the Merc SL off the list as they sound potentially horribly expensive to maintain. Have added SLK and Mini Cooper S Convertible to the list....the later being rather different to a Boxster !!

3anascooter said: I did wonder if the 987 had a little more seat movement/leg room Have taken the Merc SL off the list as they sound potentially horribly expensive to maintain. Have added SLK and Mini Cooper S Convertible to the list....the later being rather different to a Boxster !! Where in the country are you? You're welcome to have a sit and a spin in my 987.2 if you're near the East Mids. I'm just outside of Leic.

3anascooter said: I did wonder if the 987 had a little more seat movement/leg room Have taken the Merc SL off the list as they sound potentially horribly expensive to maintain. Have added SLK and Mini Cooper S Convertible to the list....the later being rather different to a Boxster !! SLK 55 AMG what a superb car.

Sadly more likely a SLK 280 post 2008 when there was a bit of a facelift Am in Essex, so thanks for the offer, but a bit too far away!!