718 GT4/Spyder - Spec Regrets? - Page 4 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

In terms of big-ticket items, I have the LWBs in my 718 Spyder which look stunning but, in all honesty, I think the 18-ways are a better fit with this car. More adjustability, can be heated, easier entry and egress. Maybe if I had a GT4 I'd prefer the LWBs but I feel that the Sypder has a slightly different use-case (less track oriented?) that tips the balance in favour of the 18-ways for me. In either case, for me the LWBs are just too upright - and when you fit adjuster brackets, which tend to tip the seat back by a similar amount irrespective of which brand of adjuster, the seat then becomes too far reclined. Aargh... You didn't want views on PCCBs so I won't mention that you'd be mad not to spec them, in my view. James

Just had word from my SA that my spec will permanently lock this coming Friday morning, first thing. With that in mind, I was wondering if there's anybody here who ticked options(no matter how small and/or regardless of cost) which after using/seeing wished they hadn't bothered? AND/OR, any options you didn't spec but after owning wished you had (again, regardless of size/cost)? TIA p.s. ignore PCCB in all of this Edited by kmpowell on Wednesday 19th January 09:52

Barring change of colour or trim choices I have virtually everything specced on my 718 GT4, the only exceptions were (and all in my personal opinion of course): PCCBs - too expensive to replace, risk of damage, minimal dynamic benefit BOSE - hardly use the stereo, not in-keeping with the GT car ethos Homelink programmable garage door opener - not needed, car lives outside Climate control panel in leather - rest of the panel is plastic, would stand out if done in leather I would spec the car exactly the same again every day of the week and twice on Sundays, so no spec regerets here as I don't feel anything was pointless to spec. Omitting certain useful items e.g. buckets, auto wipers, climate etc is more likely to cause spec regret I guess?

Don’t forget the garage door opener. £250 well spent. I can’t live without it.

short-shift said: In terms of big-ticket items, I have the LWBs in my 718 Spyder which look stunning but, in all honesty, I think the 18-ways are a better fit with this car. More adjustability, can be heated, easier entry and egress. Maybe if I had a GT4 I'd prefer the LWBs but I feel that the Sypder has a slightly different use-case (less track oriented?) that tips the balance in favour of the 18-ways for me. In either case, for me the LWBs are just too upright - and when you fit adjuster brackets, which tend to tip the seat back by a similar amount irrespective of which brand of adjuster, the seat then becomes too far reclined. Aargh... You didn't want views on PCCBs so I won't mention that you'd be mad not to spec them, in my view. James On a GT3 but I wish I went for the headlight upgrade - I preferred the look of the standard lights but LEDs work better. On the seats, I think the buckets add massively to the experience of it being a special car and are a bit of a bargain (in the grand scheme of things).

Second time around I've ordered reversing camera which I really missed on the first and the GT3 that followed. I always get best lights (LEDs are brilliant), LWBs are great (for me), cruise to keep my licence, and climate so my hot wife can be cool whereas Mr Cool (that's me) can be warmer..

I bought secondhand and fortunately have most options but would hate to be without Rear Camera and leather dash/extra Carbon. Love 918 seats but could easily live without ceramics………until it’s time to give it a clean!

gtsralph said: Second time around I've ordered reversing camera which I really missed on the first and the GT3 that followed. I always get best lights (LEDs are brilliant), LWBs are great (for me), cruise to keep my licence, and climate so my hot wife can be cool whereas Mr Cool (that's me) can be warmer.. Ralph not questioning your wife being hot but I thought being hot/cold was a male/female thing with us males generally being hotter than our better halves?

Rojibo said: Don’t forget the garage door opener. £250 well spent. I can’t live without it. Ain't that the truth

...whilst I'd never spec a car with auto wipers again, though most, unfortunately, have them as standard.

Same. Mine doesn’t go out in the rain let alone winter so I went for the factory delete wipers. The weight saving is essential for chasing those lap times.

Plus 1 on the 18 way vs buckets on the Spyder. Heated seats are an absolute must in a convertible. Then once there pop the ISOfix on so that the grandchildren are allowed out with Pops in his noisy car. GT4 must be buckets and clubsport. The camera is bloody useful, it’s absolutely pants by modern standards but in a Spyder essential. In a Spyder the Burmester is brilliant but in my experience the Bose is poor. So forget Bose in a GT4 and go the whole hog in a Spyder. Climate, cruise, wipers, mirrors etc etc etc just tick all the boxes, robbers. The interior is a personal choice, I had extended alacantara on the doors of my GT4 but that was a waste of money as you could only see it with the doors open. Leather dash and contrast stitching are probably a waste of money on a hard track used GT4 but the market seems to deem it essential. It is essential in a Spyder though as the interior is on display so much more of the time. A lot of the carbon bits seem very superfluous to me but it’s personal choice again. Lights I always tick the best option so I’ve no idea what the standard ones are like. The LED ones are brilliant. I might as well give myself the best chance. That’s it really Oh as for PCCB, it’s a yes from me just because I hate cleaning brake dust off grubby wheels. Shallow I know. It’s easy really.

Speccing my GT4 at the moment and it’s fascinating to read what people deem essential. For me the buckets are a non starter as they are too upright for me and therefore uncomfortable, I accept they look great though. A friend with a club sport was disappointed how the harness was cut though the carpet. PCCBs yes if loads of track work but not required on the road. I had them on my last Carrera S and can be a worry if they chip, pads are much more expensive. Dual zone climate essential otherwise you’ll be moving the temp up and down all the time. Get led lights the standard xenon are adequate but not great. Colour and interior is personal taste. Parking sensors yes but camera not needed and I find it a distraction and distorted image doesn’t really let you know how much space there is. Bose is better than the standard system but not essential. Auto wipers and mirrors useful, folding mirrors not really.

If you’re gonna spec sofas might as well just buy the GTS. Whilst there may be other opinions, they’re wrong.

981SPYGANG said: Ralph not questioning your wife being hot but I thought being hot/cold was a male/female thing with us males generally being hotter than our better halves? We are hotter than our better halves, ?? I’ll not try that line

Rojibo said: If you’re gonna spec sofas might as well just buy the GTS. Whilst there may be other opinions, they’re wrong. Funny, I was just thinking the same thing

SeaBox said: Rojibo said: If you’re gonna spec sofas might as well just buy the GTS. Whilst there may be other opinions, they’re wrong. Funny, I was just thinking the same thing Ha. Me too. I’d never buy a Spyder/GT4 without buckets.

Rojibo said: Don’t forget the garage door opener. £250 well spent. I can’t live without it. Why do you need it, doors are supplied with a small fob.

PGNSagaris said: SeaBox said: Rojibo said: If you’re gonna spec sofas might as well just buy the GTS. Whilst there may be other opinions, they’re wrong. Funny, I was just thinking the same thing Ha. Me too. I’d never buy a Spyder/GT4 without buckets. +1

Porsche guy said: Why do you need it, doors are supplied with a small fob. I was just being an arse. I specced it to find out that it’s old tech and won’t work with my garage door, or anything that uses rolling codes. Yes I could fit an adapter to the garage door receiver but that would be making it less secure.

Have owned my first GT4 for 18 months and just waiting on my new one. What did I do different second time round? Colour Carbon interior (even though to my eye it looks plasticky) Reverse camera instead of just sensors Dual climate (the basic one is a disgrace in an £80K plus car) Club sport Light design pack What is the same second time around: Manual box Steel brakes Buckets LED lights Cruise Leather dash Steering wheel top marker Folding mirrors Smokers package (for trinket box) Fuel filler cap

Thanks all. Much appreciated! I consciously didn’t put my spec up so it didn’t sway anybody’s opinions, and thankfully the comments/opinions have been largely aligned to mine and enough to convince me not to change. I’ll be honest and say that speccing this car has been an emotional and time consuming nightmare(!), there’s too much choice! @finmac - out of curiosity, if, like me, you don’t like fake/plastic carbon, why have you gone for it this time around? My spec, for those that are interested, that will lock on the AM: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNCJKIB2

kmpowell said: Thanks all. Much appreciated! I consciously didn’t put my spec up so it didn’t sway anybody’s opinions, and thankfully the comments/opinions have been largely aligned to mine and enough to convince me not to change. I’ll be honest and say that speccing this car has been an emotional and time consuming nightmare(!), there’s too much choice! @finmac - out of curiosity, if, like me, you don’t like fake/plastic carbon, why have you gone for it this time around? My spec, for those that are interested, that will lock on the AM: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNCJKIB2 Ref the fake carbon, the other choices don’t hugely rock my boat either! Have the dark aluminium presently and it’s OK, however, as the seats are carbon I just thought I’d try that this time round. Time will tell whether it grows on me or not.

finmac said: kmpowell said: Thanks all. Much appreciated! I consciously didn’t put my spec up so it didn’t sway anybody’s opinions, and thankfully the comments/opinions have been largely aligned to mine and enough to convince me not to change. I’ll be honest and say that speccing this car has been an emotional and time consuming nightmare(!), there’s too much choice! @finmac - out of curiosity, if, like me, you don’t like fake/plastic carbon, why have you gone for it this time around? My spec, for those that are interested, that will lock on the AM: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNCJKIB2 Ref the fake carbon, the other choices don’t hugely rock my boat either! Have the dark aluminium presently and it’s OK, however, as the seats are carbon I just thought I’d try that this time round. Time will tell whether it grows on me or not. Had a look at your spec now, price is not a million miles from mine, both have expensive paint (mines blue) and satin wheels - good choice as the black is a pain to keep clean. You have an auto and I have a cage. Cruise is a no brainer for the cost and convenience as are sensors! PARK IT NOW AND ENJOY WHEN IT ARRIVES

@finmac - I read it as having black (satin) wheels, a £387 option. Did you think they were satin Platinum? I'd go for Platinum over Black.

DJMC said: @finmac - I read it as having black (satin) wheels, a £387 option. Did you think they were satin Platinum? I'd go for Platinum over Black. Agree. Great wheel design totally lost with black. I have Sat plat with Guards looks better also with PG imo and is free.

gtsralph said: and climate so my hot wife Pics perlease....

kmpowell said: Thanks all. Much appreciated! I consciously didn’t put my spec up so it didn’t sway anybody’s opinions, and thankfully the comments/opinions have been largely aligned to mine and enough to convince me not to change. I’ll be honest and say that speccing this car has been an emotional and time consuming nightmare(!), there’s too much choice! @finmac - out of curiosity, if, like me, you don’t like fake/plastic carbon, why have you gone for it this time around? My spec, for those that are interested, that will lock on the AM: http://www.porsche-code.com/PNCJKIB2 Lovely spec, great colour. Did you miss dual climate?

finmac said: Ref the fake carbon, the other choices don’t hugely rock my boat either! Have the dark aluminium presently and it’s OK, however, as the seats are carbon I just thought I’d try that this time round. Time will tell whether it grows on me or not. Glad to hear the dark aluminium works, that's what I went for. The standard silver trim seemed too light, the leather trim option seemed out of place with the leather dash and race-tex option, and I just couldn't bring myself to pay £500 for fake carbon, so I'll make do with the anthracite aluminium and get my carbon fix from the buckets instead. finmac said: Had a look at your spec now, price is not a million miles from mine, both have expensive paint (mines blue) and satin wheels - good choice as the black is a pain to keep clean. You have an auto and I have a cage. Cruise is a no brainer for the cost and convenience as are sensors! PARK IT NOW AND ENJOY WHEN IT ARRIVES Black wheels, to satisfy my inner chav. I was debating silver, but Python is too pale for that to work. I took a trip to a dealers specifically see the platinum with Python, but for me the platinum didn't contrast/work well against Python. Python has several hues, and when it looks paler/lighter the platinum wheels looked 'dirty' silver. I've seen pics of Shark with the platinum and I think that works better, Shark isn't as pale though so it balances nicely IMO. SeaBox said: Lovely spec, great colour. Did you miss dual climate? Yup, it's a 3rd car to be used at weekends so the use case 'need' is very slim indeed. When it's hot I'll just whack the air con and leave it. If it had been a car I knew I'd use more I would have specced it, but given Porsche have the nerve to charge for it (as well as Cruise, Rain Sensor and Park assist!), out of principle I didn't bother. 2 from the other 3 items I think should be standard on a car costing north of £90k, will get good use, so I felt I had no option but to spec those (cruise and park assist).

Yep it’s bloody difficult to get past the utter tight wads at Porsche. Totally taking advantage of their customers on the assumption they can afford to pay. My better half has a golf gti that has all this stuff and more as standard including matrix led lights using witchcraft technology which aren’t even available on a 718. Currently speccing my GT4 so share your pain 🤣 However we are truly blessed to have these as problems.

DJMC said: @finmac - I read it as having black (satin) wheels, a £387 option. Did you think they were satin Platinum? I'd go for Platinum over Black. Sorry I had misread, I have black on my current and car and wouldn’t bother again, new one has satin platinum

Another nudge for the auto climate here. It's the one thing I'd change on my GT4 (I bought used). Mine, like yours is very much an occasional (and track) car so not really a huge issue in the scheme of things but the manual heating controls are a PITA in colder weather. You need to whack the heat up high to get the car warm then fiddle around once there to maintain the right temperature. It annoys me that Porsche take the piss with this, it should be standard for gawd's sake. Mine's also got Bose which I probably wouldn't have specced from choice but I suspect it was a good call. The car is very noisy inside - the engine/intake noise is glorious and there's a lot of road noise, I find I have to have the volume up around 60-70% to hear radio/podcasts. You've also not gone for the rear view camera which I find very useful since rear visibility is pretty crap. The other small option I probably wouldn't have thought of is the smoker's pack, which I see you have optioned.

I'm on my second 981 Spyder. Current car doesn't have auto dimming mirrors (first one did). First world problem, but I really miss them. It is a low car, so you seem to be more in line with the headlights of cars behind you. The dipped function is quite dark, so I find myself adjusting it quite regularly, particularly at this time of year. Not sure if this is less of an issue on the GT4 with the spoiler? Enjoy the car.

Spec locked as expected this morning. Production is apparently due to start on the 13th March. That to me seems like a long way away, but I guess given the satiation with the microchip shortages, it's anyones guess as to what is realistic or not?

That's normal. It's usually a couple of months before build.

Twinfan said: That's normal. It's usually a couple of months before build. Thanks for confirming. How long is not normally from start of production until it arrives at the dealers? Somebody mentioned there is a way to track it on the 'My Porsche' app, but seemingly nothing has appeared yet on mine.

kmpowell said: Thanks for confirming. How long is not normally from start of production until it arrives at the dealers? Somebody mentioned there is a way to track it on the 'My Porsche' app, but seemingly nothing has appeared yet on mine. As an example my current car on order went into fixed production on the 14/1/22 and is down to be delivered at my opc on the 25/2/22

Yep, around 6 weeks from build to delivery is fairly normal.

This is my final spec, pretty similar http://www.porsche-code.com/PNDMD7A4 Roll on mid April

kmpowell said: finmac said: Ref the fake carbon, the other choices don’t hugely rock my boat either! Have the dark aluminium presently and it’s OK, however, as the seats are carbon I just thought I’d try that this time round. Time will tell whether it grows on me or not. Glad to hear the dark aluminium works, that's what I went for. The standard silver trim seemed too light, the leather trim option seemed out of place with the leather dash and race-tex option, and I just couldn't bring myself to pay £500 for fake carbon, so I'll make do with the anthracite aluminium and get my carbon fix from the buckets instead. My first GTS4.0 had the dark aluminium and it looked great, I thought. Definitely best choice. The second car, which was a showroom car, so we didn't spec it, has the carbon fibre and it looks in my opinion terrible. Really cheap and tacky. Would certainly get the dark aluminium again.

It’s just a shame we can’t add the new pdk shift lever like the gt3 rs.

Wollemi said: My first GTS4.0 had the dark aluminium and it looked great, I thought. Definitely best choice. The second car, which was a showroom car, so we didn't spec it, has the carbon fibre and it looks in my opinion terrible. Really cheap and tacky. Would certainly get the dark aluminium again. Carbon trim sells most used Porsches especially GT Porsches far better than the dark aluminium in 99% of cases which really is quite telling.

Wollemi said: My first GTS4.0 had the dark aluminium and it looked great, I thought. Definitely best choice. The second car, which was a showroom car, so we didn't spec it, has the carbon fibre and it looks in my opinion terrible. Really cheap and tacky. Would certainly get the dark aluminium again. If you spec. carbon bucket seats then you need the carbon trim to match for harmony. If you don't spec. carbon bucket seats then the trim selection is a free choice.

av185 said: Wollemi said: My first GTS4.0 had the dark aluminium and it looked great, I thought. Definitely best choice. The second car, which was a showroom car, so we didn't spec it, has the carbon fibre and it looks in my opinion terrible. Really cheap and tacky. Would certainly get the dark aluminium again. Carbon trim sells most used Porsches especially GT Porsches far better than the dark aluminium in 99% of cases which really is quite telling. I had carbon in my 991.2 and I thought it looked plastic and cheap. Had brushed aluminium in my last Macan gts which I preferred over the carbon. This time around I’ve opted for leather in my gt4 to tie in with the extended leather.

Wollemi said: kmpowell said: finmac said: Ref the fake carbon, the other choices don’t hugely rock my boat either! Have the dark aluminium presently and it’s OK, however, as the seats are carbon I just thought I’d try that this time round. Time will tell whether it grows on me or not. Glad to hear the dark aluminium works, that's what I went for. The standard silver trim seemed too light, the leather trim option seemed out of place with the leather dash and race-tex option, and I just couldn't bring myself to pay £500 for fake carbon, so I'll make do with the anthracite aluminium and get my carbon fix from the buckets instead. My first GTS4.0 had the dark aluminium and it looked great, I thought. Definitely best choice. The second car, which was a showroom car, so we didn't spec it, has the carbon fibre and it looks in my opinion terrible. Really cheap and tacky. Would certainly get the dark aluminium again. 100% agree on the carbon. I’m pretty sure its faux carbon, unlike the 918 seats which I assume are real carbon fibre?

GT4RS said: 100% agree on the carbon. I’m pretty sure its faux carbon, unlike the 918 seats which I assume are real carbon fibre? I'm fairly sure this was discussed in a recent thread ( can't recall which one ) it's real CF. Can't really imagine Porsche using fake 'Halfords' carbon in their cars

I think it's all CRP isn't it? Carbon Reinforced Plastic?

The appearance of the carbon seats in my car compared to the carbon dash/door trim and carbon door sills is a perfect match. It's good if you like the 'free option' trim but the carbon is a must have for me. Well worth the additional cost.

Twinfan said: I think it's all CRP isn't it? Carbon Reinforced Plastic? I was lead to believe that porsche use a real carbon fibre weave laid over OEM plastic on interior trims. Bit like a veneer of carbon fibre, rather than it being a full carbon construction.

I ticked every option, bar accessories and colour coded key I can’t compare the Bose upgrade to standard, but the Bose is good The only options I “regret” are the interior trim, and purely from a value perception, and the cruise control because the stalk gets in the way It’s very nice to sit somewhere that feels far more ‘swank’, but it’s not worth it. A bare interior car would still perform just as well I’m not factoring in resale value to these comments The must haves for me (I use mine to get to/from the nurburgring and round it): - LED lights - reversing camera - bucket seats - PCCBs Everything else is just style

GT4RS said: I was lead to believe that porsche use a real carbon fibre weave laid over OEM plastic on interior trims. Bit like a veneer of carbon fibre, rather than it being a full carbon construction. Gotcha - the buckets are CRP then and the trim just veneered to match?

dashobbit said: I ticked every option, bar accessories and colour coded key I can’t compare the Bose upgrade to standard, but the Bose is good The only options I “regret” are the interior trim, and purely from a value perception, and the cruise control because the stalk gets in the way It’s very nice to sit somewhere that feels far more ‘swank’, but it’s not worth it. A bare interior car would still perform just as well I’m not factoring in resale value to these comments The must haves for me (I use mine to get to/from the nurburgring and round it): - LED lights - reversing camera - bucket seats - PCCBs Everything else is just style Not sure you can class the ClubSport option with cage and harness as just style

GT4RS said: It’s just a shame we can’t add the new pdk shift lever like the gt3 rs. If you've not seen it already, a guy on Reenlist has retrofitted it. You can seemingly do it yourself if you're 'handy', have the money, and have the patience... https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-...

av185 said: Carbon trim sells most used Porsches especially GT Porsches far better than the dark aluminium in 99% of cases which really is quite telling. In 86.6% of cases quoted on the internet, the stats are made up. In 42% of the 86.6% cases, 63% were based on 23.6% of the 86.6%, which in turn were actually made up of 34.2% of the original 13.4% genuine stats. ...which is quite telling.

Twinfan said: dashobbit said: I ticked every option, bar accessories and colour coded key I can’t compare the Bose upgrade to standard, but the Bose is good The only options I “regret” are the interior trim, and purely from a value perception, and the cruise control because the stalk gets in the way It’s very nice to sit somewhere that feels far more ‘swank’, but it’s not worth it. A bare interior car would still perform just as well I’m not factoring in resale value to these comments The must haves for me (I use mine to get to/from the nurburgring and round it): - LED lights - reversing camera - bucket seats - PCCBs Everything else is just style Not sure you can class the ClubSport option with cage and harness as just style Ditto deviated stitching..... :

kmpowell said: av185 said: Carbon trim sells most used Porsches especially GT Porsches far better than the dark aluminium in 99% of cases which really is quite telling. In 86.6% of cases quoted on the internet, the stats are made up. ...which is quite telling. Good job my example of 99% of cases came within the 13.4% of cases quoted on the internet which aren't made up then. ....which is quite telling. :

kmpowell said: GT4RS said: It’s just a shame we can’t add the new pdk shift lever like the gt3 rs. If you've not seen it already, a guy on Reenlist has retrofitted it. You can seemingly do it yourself if you're 'handy', have the money, and have the patience... https://rennlist.com/forums/718-gts-4-0-gt4-gt4rs-... Ooooo interesting, I will take a look.

Twinfan said: GT4RS said: I was lead to believe that porsche use a real carbon fibre weave laid over OEM plastic on interior trims. Bit like a veneer of carbon fibre, rather than it being a full carbon construction. Gotcha - the buckets are CRP then and the trim just veneered to match? Quite possibly, who’s going put a hacksaw through a carbon dash trim to find out for us 🤪

Twinfan said: Not sure you can class the ClubSport option with cage and harness as just style That’s a fair comment but I’m hoping I never see the value in the cage ;-D

The other value is that you can use harnesses on track, and like you I hope I never test the rollover safety aspect!

MogUk said: GT4RS said: 100% agree on the carbon. I’m pretty sure its faux carbon, unlike the 918 seats which I assume are real carbon fibre? I'm fairly sure this was discussed in a recent thread ( can't recall which one ) it's real CF. Can't really imagine Porsche using fake 'Halfords' carbon in their cars Aye well, it’s a shame it looks like fake carbon then! My Caterham 620R is covered with carbon that looks and feels like carbon unlike my GT4.

Hi. Can anyone tell me why the smaller multifunction steering wheel is not available on the GT4? And are the Porsche finance interest rates negotiable? Cheers.

tidfrance said: And are the Porsche finance interest rates negotiable? For brand new cars, in my experience Porsche finance (VWFS) is on a par with all the lenders when it comes to rates, balloons etc etc In the case of my GT4 order, I got a quote from Porsche then tried various brokers/lenders such as Charles & Dean, Magnitude, JBR Capital, D Gibson etc, and they all came out much the muchness for my term/deposit/needs. Bear in mind that at the start of this month Porsche increased their rate by 2 pips (0.5%) on most cars, but seemingly so have the lenders/underwriters. If you do get a great quote from one of the brokers/lenders, I have been told that Porsche will in most cases match, but I didn't have to test that theory. Edited by kmpowell on Wednesday 26th January 09:51

tidfrance said: Hi. Can anyone tell me why the smaller multifunction steering wheel is not available on the GT4? . Multifuctional steering wheels have never been available on Porsche GTs. The only s/wheel option is alcantara or smooth leather and coloured top markers. The steering wheel size was reduced on the 991.2 from the 991.1 GT3 and is the same on the GT4. Size wise it is perfect btw.

Sorry, disagree. I have a heated multi function steering wheel on my 718 Spyder

WG said: Sorry, disagree. I have a heated multi function steering wheel on my 718 Spyder Yep but as I say not available on Porsche GTs in this context including the GT4 which the post referred to.

Hi. Thanks for the replys.

tidfrance said: Can anyone tell me why the smaller multifunction steering wheel is not available on the GT4? And are the Porsche finance interest rates negotiable?. My experience (not very recent) has been that my local OPC has played pretty hardball on finance, to the extent that I've previously financed new Porsches elsewhere. ISTR they eventually moved a tiny bit on one occasion (by about 0.5%) but I could still get cheaper elsewhere. That's talking rates though, other finance providers have generally had lower balloons so the monthly payments ended up about the same.