Wheeler Dealers - 997 - Hartech rebuild - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Thought I’ve seen most Wheeler Dealer episodes…not this one…stumbled on this 997 with bore scoring episode. Interesting for those with M96/97 engines. Shows the Hartech rebuild process in detail. https://youtu.be/uiT_1cOIgw0

Thanks for sharing. Is it me or is thing a bit off about those Fuchs? I do love Fuchs but those seem a bit odd looking to me.

Yea the wheels don’t look right, styling is a bit gash, and false enthusiasm for the protect a bit cringey track side. Rebuild is interesting though

julian987R said: Thanks for sharing. Is it me or is thing a bit off about those Fuchs? I do love Fuchs but those seem a bit odd looking to me. I think it’s because the whole center is one colour, rather than having the protruding part of the spokes being black.

They're Fuchs replicas, not the realthing.

When did Elvis join? He's great. Really interesting seeing the machining, thanks for sharing.

I've just moved my 992 on after 2 and a bit years of ownership; lots of reasons; limited space due to large scale house renovation project (couldnt handle a roof tile landing on it), the market means I got back 98% of what I paid for it new and having now joined the EV congregation for a daily, my straight line need for speed has been fulfilled. I stopped getting driving thrills from the 992. Why post on this thread? I'm in three different places - I've left a deposit on a 992-T (if one ever comes out - and by which time house should be done with new garaging), or poverty pork - Boxster - to slowly renew and refresh over a couple of years, or 997 'backdate' as really I want a 911 but something a bit more involving than the 992 where straightline speed no longer matters. I watched this episode with great interest, and yeah, a bit too much enthusiasm, but found the Hartech bit fascinating. Overall, I'd probably like to do something very similar, normal .1 C2 - dark colour, suspension refresh, duck tail, reupholster seat centres in houndstooth, pop some updated PCM in (ideally the Porsche one when its out), a bit of alcantara on the steering wheen and box gaiter and get a nice paint job done on some lobster alloys (yes I like them). Over time, get it upgraded to a 3.9l with a raspy exhaust / induction kit. Keeper.

anonymous said: [redacted] Haha

dgswk said: Overall, I'd probably like to do something very similar, normal .1 C2 - dark colour, suspension refresh, duck tail, reupholster seat centres in houndstooth, pop some updated PCM in (ideally the Porsche one when its out), a bit of alcantara on the steering wheen and box gaiter and get a nice paint job done on some lobster alloys (yes I like them). Over time, get it upgraded to a 3.9l with a raspy exhaust / induction kit. Keeper. I’m with you on all the above, except for the updated PCM. I’ve become a real fan of this look : Introduces a much more modern, less cluttered/fussy look to the 997/987 model dash. And with all the apps available on modern smart phones, there seems little point in having a PCM unit, or indeed any aftermarket dash unit that will date, and/or need upgrading in the future. Oh, and I’m afraid I don’t share the passion for the lobsterclaw wheels. Sorry

I maybe wrong but when i was watching that episode i put the vrm into the mot tracker, doesn't add up.

PE56 YBA MOT expired in 2015 would have assumed they would have MOT it prior to selling or as part of the process. I used to have a 996 model and did enjoy the episode as had always worried about the same issue on my car.

The cost of the wheels and ducktail seemed cheap. The engine work was obviously less labour.

Slippydiff said: I’m with you on all the above, except for the updated PCM. I’ve become a real fan of this look : Introduces a much more modern, less cluttered/fussy look to the 997/987 model dash. And with all the apps available on modern smart phones, there seems little point in having a PCM unit, or indeed any aftermarket dash unit that will date, and/or need upgrading in the future. Oh, and I’m afraid I don’t share the passion for the lobsterclaw wheels. Sorry yeah, do like the idea of a PCM delete too, especially as a weekend only car. Lobsters??? 2017 thread added: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Edited by dgswk on Friday 15th October 12:08

anonymous said: [redacted] Yea, it was Elvis’s mate up north I somehow knew what was coming after that….a trip to Hartech

mr pg said: They're Fuchs replicas, not the realthing. They look very much like the Group 4 Fuchs replicas that I have on my 996. I think they look great as the rears have proper dish to them, which was always the appeal of Fuchs wheels (to me anyway !). They are quite colour-sensitive and look better in darker shades - also look better with an appropriate non off-road ride height ! (Price is about right, though I suspect all of the figures are ex-VAT)

Has Elvis replaced Ant (who replaced Ed)?

Is there a new PCM going out for 997 with apple car play etc yet? I know there is one for 996 and I heard one maybe on the way for 997 too... This WD car shows what a brill base 997 is for a Saville Row type project. There will be many more I bet looks fab with Carrera Script and Fuchs Style wheels. Non Porsche person could never tell the difference between them and OEM Sport Classics. Hartech show off British engineering skills brill. I wish I had a 997 Gen 1 C4S with no engine lol!

dgswk said: I've just moved my 992 on after 2 and a bit years of ownership; lots of reasons; limited space due to large scale house renovation project (couldnt handle a roof tile landing on it), the market means I got back 98% of what I paid for it new and having now joined the EV congregation for a daily, my straight line need for speed has been fulfilled. I stopped getting driving thrills from the 992. Why post on this thread? I'm in three different places - I've left a deposit on a 992-T (if one ever comes out - and by which time house should be done with new garaging), or poverty pork - Boxster - to slowly renew and refresh over a couple of years, or 997 'backdate' as really I want a 911 but something a bit more involving than the 992 where straightline speed no longer matters. I watched this episode with great interest, and yeah, a bit too much enthusiasm, but found the Hartech bit fascinating. Overall, I'd probably like to do something very similar, normal .1 C2 - dark colour, suspension refresh, duck tail, reupholster seat centres in houndstooth, pop some updated PCM in (ideally the Porsche one when its out), a bit of alcantara on the steering wheen and box gaiter and get a nice paint job done on some lobster alloys (yes I like them). Over time, get it upgraded to a 3.9l with a raspy exhaust / induction kit. Keeper. You have basically described what I am looking to do.... just trying to find a sub 20k 2S now.... although if going for the 3.9 Hartech option..... Finding just a base Carrera would be ok too.... want a PASM free car too.

They said 3500 towards the end for the rebuild with new liners and 'recoated' pistons. That sounds very cheap. I'm tempted to have a go at building one myself for that money. How hard can it be?

Mankers said: anonymous said: [redacted] Yea, it was Elvis’s mate up north I somehow knew what was coming after that….a trip to Hartech Elvis knows no bounds. In another episode he just saunters into Swift tune and borrows their kit to modify a mini head. He apparently knows everyone!

As someone said, MOT doesn’t seem to add up, but Mike said it was on a private plate and had been mot’d - I thought the most history tracked changes in plates though? Did like the minimal backdating though, black and gold scheme worked well and the duck tail looks great

Have done something similar with my c2s. Tried to do a sport classic replica with carbon folding seats. Gets lots of admiring glances & comments.

ATM said: They said 3500 towards the end for the rebuild with new liners and 'recoated' pistons. That sounds very cheap. I'm tempted to have a go at building one myself for that money. How hard can it be? Elvis did state quite clearly that this was a £10k rebuild, but that doing some of the work himself had led to a big saving. Baz has posted some interesting points on the 911 UK site - fairly clear implication that he allowed them access and some artistic licence, given the obvious benefit to his business.

Kettmark said: Have done something similar with my c2s. Tried to do a sport classic replica with carbon folding seats. Gets lots of admiring glances & comments. Sounds lovely, have you got any pictures, thread, links?

Interesting to see Ed china's mate Paul on the latest episode of his workshop diaries on you tube. Explains that basically he did the car buying and a lot of the unseen repairs too.

dgswk said: I've just moved my 992 on after 2 and a bit years of ownership; lots of reasons; limited space due to large scale house renovation project (couldnt handle a roof tile landing on it), the market means I got back 98% of what I paid for it new and having now joined the EV congregation for a daily, my straight line need for speed has been fulfilled. I stopped getting driving thrills from the 992. Why post on this thread? I'm in three different places - I've left a deposit on a 992-T (if one ever comes out - and by which time house should be done with new garaging), or poverty pork - Boxster - to slowly renew and refresh over a couple of years, or 997 'backdate' as really I want a 911 but something a bit more involving than the 992 where straightline speed no longer matters. I watched this episode with great interest, and yeah, a bit too much enthusiasm, but found the Hartech bit fascinating. Overall, I'd probably like to do something very similar, normal .1 C2 - dark colour, suspension refresh, duck tail, reupholster seat centres in houndstooth, pop some updated PCM in (ideally the Porsche one when its out), a bit of alcantara on the steering wheen and box gaiter and get a nice paint job done on some lobster alloys (yes I like them). Over time, get it upgraded to a 3.9l with a raspy exhaust / induction kit. Keeper. I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04

nunpuncher said: dgswk said: I've just moved my 992 on after 2 and a bit years of ownership; lots of reasons; limited space due to large scale house renovation project (couldnt handle a roof tile landing on it), the market means I got back 98% of what I paid for it new and having now joined the EV congregation for a daily, my straight line need for speed has been fulfilled. I stopped getting driving thrills from the 992. Why post on this thread? I'm in three different places - I've left a deposit on a 992-T (if one ever comes out - and by which time house should be done with new garaging), or poverty pork - Boxster - to slowly renew and refresh over a couple of years, or 997 'backdate' as really I want a 911 but something a bit more involving than the 992 where straightline speed no longer matters. I watched this episode with great interest, and yeah, a bit too much enthusiasm, but found the Hartech bit fascinating. Overall, I'd probably like to do something very similar, normal .1 C2 - dark colour, suspension refresh, duck tail, reupholster seat centres in houndstooth, pop some updated PCM in (ideally the Porsche one when its out), a bit of alcantara on the steering wheen and box gaiter and get a nice paint job done on some lobster alloys (yes I like them). Over time, get it upgraded to a 3.9l with a raspy exhaust / induction kit. Keeper. I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 10/10 and fun wise miles better than any modern car IMO

Haribo Lecter said: julian987R said: Thanks for sharing. Is it me or is thing a bit off about those Fuchs? I do love Fuchs but those seem a bit odd looking to me. I think it’s because the whole center is one colour, rather than having the protruding part of the spokes being black. Think it's because the suspension is too high which makes the offset look a bit wrong at the back and I always think Fuchs only work in 18 on the 996 and 997.

nunpuncher said: I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Absolutely lovely, I really like the idea of sticking with the right period wheels with the painted centers, and that fabric completely changes the ambience of the interior.

nunpuncher said: I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Looks great, do you find the 997 seats more comfortable? I find my 996 seats lack lumbar support and they are too narrow across the top half of my back causing me to sit in a very round shouldered position

nunpuncher said: I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Stunning looking seats! I am a huge fan of the simple look too. Lower console delete, Momo Prototipo and a black snooker ball made into a gear knob.

markh1 said: Looks great, do you find the 997 seats more comfortable? I find my 996 seats lack lumbar support and they are too narrow across the top half of my back causing me to sit in a very round shouldered position They're much better. The 996 seat backs are an odd shape. Too narrow at the top, lack lateral support and have lumbar support just below your shoulder blades. The 997 seats are designed for a human spine. The seat itself is constructed much better with a sprung base, mixed density foam and a plastic former for the foam. They also go lower and slide back further. They bolt in directly but there's a little rewiring needs done.

nunpuncher said: Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Lovely looking car @nunpuncher - tasteful mods - just needs a ducktail now to finish off

CrunkleFloop said: nunpuncher said: I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Stunning looking seats! I am a huge fan of the simple look too. Lower console delete, Momo Prototipo and a black snooker ball made into a gear knob. I agree but even then it is still too busy. That dash design is just too chaotic in my opinion

CrunkleFloop said: nunpuncher said: I went down that same path only with a 996. I wanted to go for a pre 993 air cooled car for the classic styling but the performance v price made no sense when compared to a 996 or 7.1. so I just did a bit of a 996.1 with a few retro touches. I got rid of the ancient pcm and the whole lower console to give it a floating dash like the older cars. Replaced the PCM with a bluetooth continental single din. Pepita houndstooth inserts on 997 seats using fabric from Carbone. Had the period correct twists painted with a lip, load of suspension work and dansk exhaust. Still got little bits to do and still contemplating a ducks arse although I like the idea of trying to make a retro black slated engine cover. The modern models are fantastic daily drivers but too fast, too comfortable, too capable, too convenient and well, too much like driving your daily to be a sensory weekend break from the norm. Edited by nunpuncher on Monday 18th October 10:04 Stunning looking seats! I am a huge fan of the simple look too. Lower console delete, Momo Prototipo and a black snooker ball made into a gear knob. Prototipo added to shopping list. Probably go for a wooden turned gear knob with a short shift, Carrera GT influence? Very much like the console delete on yours and Nunpunchers

I did the delete to give me more leg room, initially. Then fitted a wheel and a chair that meant I didn't need the console delete for functional reasons, but kept it for the looks.

I've put 997 seats in my 996. They are so much better. I've also done the same thing to my Boxster. They sit you lower and further back than the older seats. The difference for me is like night and day. Car feels much much better with the newer seats. I was struggling for leg room in my Boxster which made the car a pain. Now I have no back pain, seat feels snug, car is comfy over longer distances etc etc. It's just all good news and no bad news. In my 996 it's less about leg room but they still feel much much better in the old seats you feel like you sit on rather than in the seat.

julian987R said: I agree but even then it is still too busy. That dash design is just too chaotic in my opinion 996 dash too "chaotic" compared to a 987 C ? Seriously ?

julian987R said: I agree but even then it is still too busy. That dash design is just too chaotic in my opinion It's very "of it's time" with all the unnecessary blobs and swoops. But I think ergonomically it was the first 911 dash that wasn't chaotic. They had a bit of a habit of sticking the buttons wherever the wires reached in the older cars. I liked that double cubby 997 console. Think I'd fit that and hide a Bluetooth headunit under a seat/in the glove compartment. Pity there isn't an equivalent lower console delete for the 997. I hate the tombstone of buttons in silver plastic. Much better in black.

Slippydiff said: julian987R said: I agree but even then it is still too busy. That dash design is just too chaotic in my opinion 996 dash too "chaotic" compared to a 987 C ? Seriously ? Yes seriously, and not in terms of button chaos, more the lines and shapes. I find the area for the radio on the 996 a really odd design. Of its time yes, but still plenty odd in my opinion,.

nunpuncher said: They're much better. The 996 seat backs are an odd shape. Too narrow at the top, lack lateral support and have lumbar support just below your shoulder blades. The 997 seats are designed for a human spine. The seat itself is constructed much better with a sprung base, mixed density foam and a plastic former for the foam. They also go lower and slide back further. They bolt in directly but there's a little rewiring needs done. Thanks for that. My 996 seats are electric and heated and would be really keen to keep those functions!

markh1 said: nunpuncher said: They're much better. The 996 seat backs are an odd shape. Too narrow at the top, lack lateral support and have lumbar support just below your shoulder blades. The 997 seats are designed for a human spine. The seat itself is constructed much better with a sprung base, mixed density foam and a plastic former for the foam. They also go lower and slide back further. They bolt in directly but there's a little rewiring needs done. Thanks for that. My 996 seats are electric and heated and would be really keen to keep those functions! I have same 997 seat fully electric certainly available. Think i may keep them in my 997 hot rod actually rather than swapping to buckets. So comfortable.

markh1 said: Thanks for that. My 996 seats are electric and heated and would be really keen to keep those functions! Might be more difficult and more expensive to source a pair of fully electric 997/987 seats. I think the ones I got were out of a cayman and are heated although my 996 didn't have heated seats so I've not connected the heat pads. I did screw the wiring up on the passenger side in the first attempt and the seat was constantly heating as I thought there were 2 lives for the backrest motor. Wasn't difficult to work out as you can follow all the wires to motors and heat pads. Not like a main wiring loom where parts are hidden.

nunpuncher said: Might be more difficult and more expensive to source a pair of fully electric 997/987 seats. I think the ones I got were out of a cayman and are heated although my 996 didn't have heated seats so I've not connected the heat pads. I did screw the wiring up on the passenger side in the first attempt and the seat was constantly heating as I thought there were 2 lives for the backrest motor. Wasn't difficult to work out as you can follow all the wires to motors and heat pads. Not like a main wiring loom where parts are hidden. Thanks for that! Need to find a 997 to sit in now to check my body fits!

julian987R said: Yes seriously, and not in terms of button chaos, more the lines and shapes. I find the area for the radio on the 996 a really odd design. Of its time yes, but still plenty odd in my opinion,. I'm shocked, I'd have thought an aesthete such as yourself would have understood and celebrated Pinky Lai's design cues. Too much focus on scuffed sill trims methinks Julian "Taco" profile in the door trim/pull handle : And aped in the rear wing profile : And again in the curvature of the dash clock binnacle you dislike so much : And finally in the door mirrors (the driver/passenger only get the benefit of the shape from within the cabin) :

Slippydiff said: I'm shocked, I'd have thought an aesthete such as yourself would have understood and celebrated Pinky Lai's design cues. Too much focus on scuffed sill trims methinks Julian "Taco" profile in the door trim/pull handle : And aped in the rear wing profile : And again in the curvature of the dash clock binnacle you dislike so much : And finally in the door mirrors (the driver/passenger only get the benefit of the shape from within the cabin) : I get the design language of the use of that shape but, like with the Lambo Hex shape splattered everywhere on their cars, its just a bit too much. But I appreciate many love it, and fully respect that POV.

Bump: This episode was on Quest tonight (freebie TV for us mortals ). Surprisingly, the car hasn't had a MoT since 2014 so seems to have been kept and sold on as a trackday car. But the reg is no longer recognised in a DVLA registration and VED check, so has it been exported or written off maybe? I was impressed by Hartech's rebuild procedure, no wonder they get a good rep. Edited by sixor8 on Thursday 17th November 22:19

Slippydiff said: I'm shocked, I'd have thought an aesthete such as yourself would have understood and celebrated Pinky Lai's design cues. Too much focus on scuffed sill trims methinks Julian "Taco" profile in the door trim/pull handle : Looks so much better sans air bag Edited because the first pic dissappeared Edited by ATM on Saturday 8th June 07:43