996/997 GT3 how obtainable are they. - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi guys, Odd thread title I know as it's relative to a lot of factors (mainly disposable income). I am currently on the hunt for a BMW E46 CSL or a 1M but a 996/997 GT3 has always been my goal/dream but is obviously another ~£20,000 plus more than both of the BMWs. My question is, how many of you have financed the purchase of your GT3s? (or is it the case of, if you can't afford to buy it outright then you can't afford it?) I'm not in a position of being able to buy something outright and won't be for the foreseeable future as I have a two year old and another on the way (and I'm not a corporate/company director sadly). Plus I have a very large mortgage on a house back in New Zealand (which takes care of itself) Do I keep saving towards outright GT3 ownership or will I not be able to keep up with the price increases these will see in the coming months/years? My gut says, if I don't finance then I'll never quite have one within reach, but on the same note, I've never had finance on a car before I've always purchased outright. Certainly not on the level of any of the cars I mention though, BMW E30 M3/ Ford Sierra Cosworth RS territory is as high as I've been in the past. What ever I get won't be a daily driver, I'm certainly aiming to do at least a couple of trackdays per year in what ever I end up with, the upside of the Porsche over the BMW beside being more 'able' on track is the future values. I'm looking at the very bottom end of what's on offer in terms of GT3s, is Pistonheads, Autotrader and eBay the only places I should be looking for cars I hope my post makes vague sense Am I just a dreamer and should come back to reality or could/should I push to make this work? Cheers, Ollie. [edit-typos] Edited by Geesus on Saturday 27th December 17:24

I'm fortunate enough to own my cars outright at mo, however I've financed lots of my previous cars & I'm still alive to talk about it!! Many here will tell you; Never finance a depreciating asset... Buy a flat & rent it out... If you have to ask, blah, blah, blah... Think about the running costs... The world is about to crash... If you can afford the payments & have factored in depreciation & running costs then i say go for it

GT3's aren't depreciating though?

ferdi p said: I'm fortunate enough to own my cars outright at mo, however I've financed lots of my previous cars & I'm still alive to talk about it!! Many here will tell you; Never finance a depreciating asset... Buy a flat & rent it out... If you have to ask, blah, blah, blah... Think about the running costs... The world is about to crash... If you can afford the payments & have factored in depreciation & running costs then i say go for it I agree with this, everyone's circumstances differ but car ownership costs and those costs are what you need to be able to afford. Depreciation, interest on any loan needed and running costs. Add that lot up with a realistic approach, work out how long you want to own it and bingo, you will know if you can afford it or not.

Its a personal call only you can make. The ownership vs financing is a red herring. That's just a question of how you pay for it, I've always done ownership route as I think it works out better, but arguably with finance rates so low there's not a lot in it. Given all the other costs, the cost difference between ownership and financing is small beer in my opinion. Your question is more about 'how much of my hard earned do I want to spend on my porsche hobby' (assuming you have enough disposable after mortgage has been paid, kids fed, bills paid etc and emergency fund established). Some basic home economics will tell you if its affordable, you then need to decide how much of your true disposable income do you want to spend on a porsche ownership. factor in regular running costs (tax, insurance, fuel, MOT) then 'other predictables' (warranty, tyres, discs etc) and then 'misc' (probably one unexpected bill per year, track days?) then depreciation (though on a GT3 you may be able to assume £0). Someone recently posted a very helpful 5 year ownership cost for a RS60. Take a look. think about how many years you plan to have car and then viola you can work out an annual (and monthly) running cost. Assuming that less than your true disposable income you're in business if you want to be. Given you are asking the question, I'm guessing its borderline so be careful with man maths. J

Don't see a problem with financing a car if you can afford the repayments and it doesn't impose on you or your family's lifestyle. With the way the market is going and if you do decide to dispose of the car before you pay the loan off you may be able to break even as a worst case. I always regret not borrowing the £30k I needed to buy a 993 GT2 when they were around £120k...

I personally dont finance my cars but i wouldnt have any hesitation financing a 96 GT3 if i needed to to get into one. If theres one porsche thats due to spring its this one. In a few years any interest on the finance deal might be virtually negligible compared to the amount by which they appreciate. Seriously undervalued right now imo, esp. if like me, you consider them to be the very best of the water cooled cars. Act quickly imo.

That 996 is a MKI with MKII front end so I'd be finding out why.

Geesus said: Hi guys, thanks a lot for the replies so far. I'm going out on a limb here but surely it's almost a given that both the 996 and 997 GT3s have gone as low as they will depreciation wise? In terms of financing, it wouldn't cross my mind to finance if I didn't think the car would be an appreciating asset. Obviously running costs, tax etc might be a different story but in terms of purchase price vs future resale, surely it will sell for more than what I would have paid for it. In today's market probably, yes. But in tomorrow's market? Who knows? Having lived through the eighties car boom I am wary of bubbles. But in the last 18 months I have sold a mint 1970 2.2s, a good 3.2 and a 996 GT3 at what I thought were toppish prices only to see the market soar further. So what do I know? Check this ad from the last boom for some perspective though. It would take more than two decades for the market to recover to these pre-crash prices again.

m33ufo said: GT3's aren't depreciating though? Hi guys, thanks a lot for the replies so far. I'm going out on a limb here but surely it's almost a given that both the 996 and 997 GT3s have gone as low as they will depreciation wise? In terms of financing, it wouldn't cross my mind to finance if I didn't think the car would be an appreciating asset. Obviously running costs, tax etc might be a different story but in terms of purchase price vs future resale, surely it will sell for more than what I would have paid for it. What are peoples thoughts on the long term investment in terms of 996 vs 997 GT3? It's a dream to own either but I do prefer the look of the 997, but I would still grab at whichever one people feel may be the better long term investment. There's a couple of pretty good cars for sale back in New Zealand, perhaps I should have bought one with me when I relocated back in May 2007 997 GT3 8,600 Mile $140,000 NZD £69,000 GBP http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/porsche/... 2000 996 GT3 60,000 Mile $65,000 NZD £32,500 GBP http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/porsche/... Edited by Geesus on Saturday 27th December 22:45

^ Interesting scan, what was the publication year of the magazine? I was born in the '80s so haven't been on the car scene for all that long, how does the car market/bubble burst? Is it an overnight thing or do prices slowly start creeping down?

IMHO, a 996 gt3 is a safe car to leverage. A. Firstly it should not depreciate further. However, if if there was to be a correction of sorts, what is the worst case - £10k? Anything beyond that is serious systemic breakdown. So, can you fathom £10k loss? You are not going to have a total capital write off (unless you track the car uninsured and have an unfortunate write off accident) The reality is the car will stay same value or rise...so capital is safe. B. Maintenance costs are a separate affair and the more you track, the higher they will be. If the car does not appreciate significantly then these will eat into your 'business case'. Again, the question is can you afford circa £3k+ of maintenance costs per annum of a lightly tracked car. If you can accept A (very pessimistic view) and B (probably optimistic view since if you get smitten you will track more) then go for it! Personally, I would on a 996 GT3. My preference is for the mk2 models, but I know there is plenty of love of the mk1 too. If you find you cannot afford it, you can always jump out and sell it easily. Just buy one in condition that is east to sell (or haggle upfront if it has some issues) Edited by LaSource on Sunday 28th December 08:00

I'd say if you really want one I'd buy one asap! It could be really easy to miss the boat from my own experience when wanting to swop out of my 993 for a 993 turbo several years ago. The cost of change was a little bit outside my comfort zone but if I had, I'd more than doubled my money and plus some now!! Now they well out of reach, but never mind. I currently run a 996.1 gt3 with cage, buckets etc, it's a cracking car and a great occasion to get out in it. I've only done a half track day in it so far and it was incredible and terribly addictive. Like has been said above if start tracking them a lot I think it will cost you a fortune in consumables and maintaince etc. For this reason unfortunately I'm looking into buying a carterham asap as lighter and less expensive all round to track. I say go for it and I'm in the same age bracket as you more or less. Can't see you going wrong with either 997 or 996. My mates 997 sounds incredible as standard. Just be aware of the all in track day costs, soon mount up.

Thanks a lot for the replies so far guys. It seems it's slim pickings in the 996 GT3 camp by the looks of Pistonheads at the moment. Is that the best place to be looking or are there other places to look? 996 GT3 Mk 2 (2004) £54,995 (judging from their website a deposit has been placed on this car) http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... 996 GT3 (2005) £58,995 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... 997 Wise there's only this 997 GT3 (2007) Porsche warranty March 2016 £64,950 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Or this Cat D 997 GT3 (2007) £51,000 http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014... Is there any advantage in a GT3 without a roll cage? It's not like I'd be gaining 2 extra seats for the kids in the back so why have one without a cage? Is a caged GT3 lighter than one without (does it not have sound deadening in the back etc? I must admit I'm very much a novice when it comes to Porsche so if anyone has any links at hand to good articles I'd love to see them. Edited by Geesus on Sunday 28th December 16:20 Edited by Geesus on Sunday 28th December 16:21 Edited by Geesus on Sunday 28th December 16:23

Geesus said: Thanks a lot for the replies so far guys. It seems it's slim pickings in the 996 GT3 camp by the looks of Pistonheads at the moment. Is that the best place to be looking or are there other places to look? Demand is such that some 996GT3s get sold without being advertised these days. Sometimes an owner will casually mention in a thread that they're thinking of selling and next thing you know a buyer contacts them and a deal is done. There was a thread a few weeks ago from an owner thinking of selling his MK1 guards red clubsport. I'll bet that it got snapped up within a few hours of the topic being posted.

The first one you've linked above was mine. My needs changed and I hardly ever got to use the car and whilst I realise it was an appreciating asset I'd bought it to drive and it spent most of its time in the garage along with a couple of other toys. I wanted a 911 suitable for both the wife and I to drive so went for a 997 GTS. That GT3 is a lovely car though and I do miss it. Regards Fred

boxsey said: Demand is such that some 996GT3s get sold without being advertised these days. Sometimes an owner will casually mention in a thread that they're thinking of selling and next thing you know a buyer contacts them and a deal is done. There was a thread a few weeks ago from an owner thinking of selling his MK1 guards red clubsport. I'll bet that it got snapped up within a few hours of the topic being posted. Thanks for the tip, what are the most frequented forums for UK GT3 owners then chaps?

I am in the same boat and seriously considering a GT3. People will always justify their own purchases but as I see it, very much as an outsider,, there is very little price wise between a 996 and 997.1 when you account for mileage etc. Also whilst prices have been rising, I do think the rate of increase has slowed somewhat and the hot market we had for anything air cooled and GT3/RS wise seems to have declined a little. Likewise for E30 M3s and the London property market. Perhaps the slowdown of the Asian economies is having an effect. Peraonally, I am also thinking of something air cooled as well. A decent 3.2 with a few track mods would be quite a machine. Possibly cheaper than a GT3 and arguably as much fun?

I had two 46 CSLs but I could not get the gt3 itch out of my mind so I took the plunge back in June and went for a guards red mk2 gt3. It was right time for me and I was lucky to get in before the market moved I guess. Its a great car which needed a decent service, some new tyres, wheels refurbed, some paintwork and tlc but I want it to be a keeper so will take my time. It had new discs and rs29 pads all round so not bad ;-) Its a legendary car, like the csl, but a very different drive and challenge. Its got 70k miles on the clock as its been used but I wont do more than 2k a year so hey ho. Originally a comfort spec but has half cage, bucket seats, harnesses, new alcantara steering wheel and gear lever as well as sports exhaust. If it was me I would go the extra mile for the porker as it just feels super special when you take it out and they are going up in value all the time. Edited by DasChin on Sunday 28th December 19:29 Edited by DasChin on Sunday 28th December 19:39

Geesus said: ^ Interesting scan, what was the publication year of the magazine? I was born in the '80s so haven't been on the car scene for all that long, how does the car market/bubble burst? Is it an overnight thing or do prices slowly start creeping down? 1990 from memory.

As someone new to this game and who would love a second air cooled, that scan is terrifying.

anonymous said: [redacted] I can agree with that. Which is why I say they are fairly safe to leverage. Inherently I do not see a reason for massive inflation. It is not a 'pretty' car like most collectables (though I personally do find it evocative and attractive). It is more a functional tool. Compared to other expensive 911s, I do think it has a driving experience that is comparable if not better. Therefore there is a bit more upside than downside. The main driver for value retention/appreciation will be limited supply. I think many owners will feel that in the world of flappy paddle, driver aided, blown engined cars there will be fewer examples of analogue road racers. If you got in when they were in the £40s, what let it go unless you need the funds? Of course, people will sell - but less than before.

Geesus said: Is there any advantage in a GT3 without a roll cage? It's not like I'd be gaining 2 extra seats for the kids in the back so why have one without a cage? Is a caged GT3 lighter than one without (does it not have sound deadening in the back etc? I must admit I'm very much a novice when it comes to Porsche so if anyone has any links at hand to good articles I'd love to see them. You can retro fit rear seats and seat belts to 996/997.1 GT3's. By doing this, I have been able to use my GT3 much more frequently.

I would agree the gen 1 or gen 2 996 gt3 is a safe bet for your money if you got in at 40k. Wouldn't be be to sure if I got into a gen 1 997 gt3 at 65k plus.

Geesus said: It's a dream to own either but I do prefer the look of the 997, but I would still grab at whichever one people feel may be the better long term investment. if interest rates go up none will be a long term investment, normal punters who bought cars at 40k are already twitchy about selling and making 20k to 100k depending what cars they own. people are playing with money as it's not worth investing, that will change and the car market will have a almighty crash imo. I could not keep 100k worth of cars in my garage knowing I could net £900 a month from a investment off the money nor will any run of the mill normal earning person. it's not even like they are the best cars to own, better as dream cars imo, owned both the GT3 and the CSL kept both for 8 months and sold at the bottom of the market as the flaws were too frustrating for me to keep them. some times the dream is better than the owning. buy to drive not as investments. Edited by mrdemon on Monday 29th December 10:33

ro51ter said: I would agree the gen 1 or gen 2 996 gt3 is a safe bet for your money if you got in at 40k. Wouldn't be be to sure if I got into a gen 1 997 gt3 at 65k plus. a good 996 GT3 is 55k now and a 997.1 is £75k now, both quite old cars which can give mouth watering bills. at todays prices the upkeep might offset the money you can make. I think a 997.1 at £75k is now a hard sell and could easy cost you 10k over 2 years to run.

mrdemon said: a good 996 GT3 is 55k now and a 997.1 is £75k now, both quite old cars which can give mouth watering bills. at todays prices the upkeep might offset the money you can make. I think a 997.1 at £75k is now a hard sell and could easy cost you 10k over 2 years to run. And that 10k doesn't factor in any depreciation if the bubble does burst.

you just had to get your £10k refresh in didnt you just admit you bought a shi.tter as mines nowhere near the figures you mention I financed mine as didnt fancy saving the money over x amount of years to buy it outright and glad i did now otherwise id have to save for longer to buy it.

Let's not get carried away now. We are not talking about buying the cars as an investment. We are talking about enjoying a car to drive and financing that enjoyment via leverage. The general view is that although leverage has inherent risks, the risks are lower with a GT3. In fact regardless if leverage, even if buying outright, the risks are lower with a GT3. That's it. I don't think there is a big crash to worry about (esp for 996 models) as they never appreciated a huge amount. As for whether the 996 is a good car or not. That's evidenced by the market. People like them and keep them. Some realise they bought the wrong car for their needs. Some just made a mistake and sold on. Most love them. I have bought about 5 variants over the last 6/7 years and kept 2. Nothin wrong with the ones I sold - just natural progression at the time between 996 GT3 and 996 RS...later wanting a cheaper variant when the 996 RS became more collectible. They are absolutely cracking cars depending on your intended use.

I guess we all have our opinion on values and running costs. Only time will tell which way the market takes us.

Anything with the M engine in it is going to be sought after. it's probably the best thing that came out of Porsche since the water cooled era ( CGT excluded). We won't see the likes of an engine built to that specification again in road cars. Could also effect values of 996 and some 997 turbos in time to come. Limited supply and an expanding global market will keep prices high. The world is a very different place to the 1990's. There are a many more times the buyers of classic and desirable cars now by comparison. find a new car thats built to the same specification thats not made of chocolate? Ive put my money into a 997 Gen 1 clubsport because it's still a lot of car for the money - not because it may be a future investment. But if i were looking at values in say 10 years time, I'd still be putting my money in one right now.

My dream was always a gen2 996 GT3 RS, but the way values have gone it will probably never happen now so just think myself very lucky that I managed to buy my 996 gen2 GT3 from JZM early last year when I did, I thought it was a lot of money when I purchased it but I know that buying from there it would be a great car. It was top end of my budget but I would have to find about 10k more if I wanted one to that standard now.

mrdemon said: I could not keep 100k worth of cars in my garage knowing I could net £900 a month from a investment off the money nor will any run of the mill normal earning person. Don't you have a Spyder and a Cayman R in the garage? Surely that is about £90k mrdemon said: I think a 997.1 at £75k is now a hard sell and could easy cost you 10k over 2 years to run. Where do you get this £10k figure from? All mine has cost me in 21 months is standard servicing costs plus new brake pads all round. Admittedly I have spent money on other things like geo and RSS engine mounts and rear brake cooling ducts etc but the car didn't 'need' those items.

I have other cars you know. I guess it dependant on miles driven, but the rs360 SPyder thread showed you that 3k PA is easy done and that was with no big hardware changes. Have you not had your top mounts done yet ? 5k PA to run a GT3 is small fry imo.

lemmingjames said: you just had to get your £10k refresh in didnt you just admit you bought a shi.tter as mines nowhere near the figures you mention I financed mine as didnt fancy saving the money over x amount of years to buy it outright and glad i did now otherwise id have to save for longer to buy it. I bought a minter and only changed front disks and pads on my car !

Just to start a punch up, i would easily take a CSL over a 996 GT3 and pocket the change. As for financing? You only live once. You won't be on your death bed thinking about how fantastic it was making sensible financial decisions.

LaSource said: Let's not get carried away now. We are not talking about buying the cars as an investment. We are talking about enjoying a car to drive and financing that enjoyment via leverage. . Surely "leverage" is not the correct word if you believe the above ? And it is a w ky ridiculous word to be used on a car enthusiasts forum IMO

hondansx said: Just to start a punch up, i would easily take a CSL over a 996 GT3 and pocket the change. As for financing? You only live once. You won't be on your death bed thinking about how fantastic it was making sensible financial decisions. I am a ///M Power fanatic. Have owned the following - E30 M3, E28 M5, E46 M3, Z3M Coupe, Z4M Coupe, E61 M5 and have driven pretty much everything else ever to wear an ///M badge, except the M1. The CSL is a fantastic car, but I would not put it in the same sentence as the GT3. And I have driven a few, and actually had it on my list against the 996GT3 that I currently own. As to finance - I still regret not borrowing £30k to add the 21,000km 964RS that was being offered to me back in 2003...

mrdemon said: I bought a minter and only changed front disks and pads on my car ! Thought the previous owner spent 10k on it and you a further 5k. Anyway, if you can afford the finances and the potential running costs then go for it. If its a good one and the market drops then youll prob lose a few k but itll be like anything else that depreciates

mrdemon said: I could not keep 100k worth of cars in my garage knowing I could net £900 a month from a investment off the money nor will any run of the mill normal earning person. You make 10.8% per annum in the current environment?

Cheburator mk2 said: hondansx said: Just to start a punch up, i would easily take a CSL over a 996 GT3 and pocket the change. The CSL is a fantastic car, but I would not put it in the same sentence as the GT3. And I have driven a few, and actually had it on my list against the 996GT3 that I currently own. "IF" the CSL had a stick it would be a closer contest........ saying that never ever under estimate a local CSL at the Ring in a 6GT3

keep it lit said: Cheburator mk2 said: hondansx said: Just to start a punch up, i would easily take a CSL over a 996 GT3 and pocket the change. The CSL is a fantastic car, but I would not put it in the same sentence as the GT3. And I have driven a few, and actually had it on my list against the 996GT3 that I currently own. "IF" the CSL had a stick it would be a closer contest........ saying that never ever under estimate a local CSL at the Ring in a 6GT3 If only it did, i would be hunting one down...anybody ever converted one? Too true about the nordschliefe and local/knowledgeable M3's .

keep it lit said: "IF" the CSL had a stick it would be a closer contest........ saying that never ever under estimate a local CSL at the Ring in a 6GT3 Dunno about the "stick". I am actually a big fan of SMG II and III, and I absolutely despise PDK, DKG etc As to a local with a CSL at the Ring? For sure - the Bluhm brothers - two white CSLs with huge barcode decals on them used to terrorize the GT3RS brigade for years. Personally, I count myself as a semi local with about 1000laps... Never in a 911 though, so I cannot wait for next year... Let's see if I can do Olaf proud or bring more business his way. I hope the former, rather than latter...

Harris_I said: You make 10.8% per annum in the current environment? you had better re read my post :-) and not just quote a part of it.

lemmingjames said: Thought the previous owner spent 10k on it and you a further 5k. Anyway, if you can afford the finances and the potential running costs then go for it. If its a good one and the market drops then youll prob lose a few k but itll be like anything else that depreciates prev owner, had a damper rebuild, new diff, so while out new clutch, new alternator, new rads and coil packs, bush's and a CG full set up. I had new front disks, new pads new tyres and yet another battery ! next owner has had new rear disks/pads new rear exhaust. no getting away from a 10k refresh on a 2003 car how ever you look at it even on a 997 GT3 now. all basic stuff which needs doing hardly a shock.

TB993tt said: LaSource said: Let's not get carried away now. We are not talking about buying the cars as an investment. We are talking about enjoying a car to drive and financing that enjoyment via leverage. . Surely "leverage" is not the correct word if you believe the above ? And it is a w ky ridiculous word to be used on a car enthusiasts forum IMO Sorry to confuse you. Means 'borrowing'

Cheburator mk2 said: The CSL is a fantastic car, but I would not put it in the same sentence as the GT3. And I have driven a few, and actually had it on my list against the 996GT3 that I currently own. Thought I would join in with hondansx as the fight is getting one sided. Link below has some interesting numbers. http://www.m3csl.de/misc_csl_supertest.php Both great cars. I love pork but CSL is a bit of a Q car and can handle an european trip with Mrs luggage and cases of wine. Needs to be driven on cups to be fully appreciated.

trawler said: Thought I would join in with hondansx as the fight is getting one sided. Link below has some interesting numbers. http://www.m3csl.de/misc_csl_supertest.php Both great cars. I love pork but CSL is a bit of a Q car and can handle an european trip with Mrs luggage and cases of wine. Needs to be driven on cups to be fully appreciated. Stonking car, but trust me, having had a really good poke around a few, driven a really sorted one - PSS10s, Brembos all round, DZ03s (265s square set up on 18s), Supersprint exhaust and headers, DMS remap on the Ring, there was no getting away from the feeling that the basis (although an excellent one) is a saloon car. I thought I would never say that, but then I had not driven a sorted Mk1 CS like mine before. Moreover, on the Continent, where I prefer to buy my toy cars, the CSL has already overtaken the 996 GT3 in the price wars. Lastly, having had a very sorted E46 M3, there is no getting away from the fact that £20k can buy you and build you a street E46 M3 that would be miles better than a boggo CSL. Try that with a standard 996 and a 996 GT3...

I'm with Cheburator, I'm a huge S54 fan but there's no comparison to the sense of occasion the GT3 brings. It feels smaller, more agile and just generally far tighter out of the box. I won't mention flappy paddles as I loved the SMG II and the CSL intake sound is to die for but given the choice I'd pick up a vanilla SMG coupe for 10-12K and spend £5K sorting it. It would be interesting to see what the above ring times would be with a good geo and set of cups on the GT3, I suspect the advantage would be turned around.

mrdemon said: Harris_I said: You make 10.8% per annum in the current environment? you had better re read my post :-) and not just quote a part of it. I think he did read it and understood it the same way as I did - your post implies you think you could make £900 a month from a £100k investment. Presumably you meant that you could buy something and rent it with a £900/month income or something along those lines. That's a whole different thing from £900/month 'net'. Edited by arcamalpha on Tuesday 30th December 10:57

Cheburator mk2 said: hondansx said: Just to start a punch up, i would easily take a CSL over a 996 GT3 and pocket the change. The CSL is a fantastic car, but I would not put it in the same sentence as the GT3. And I have driven a few, and actually had it on my list against the 996GT3 that I currently own. CSL not in the same sentence as the gt3? Can't agree with that at all, the gt3 might be the better car but it isn't by anything the amount that suggests. The CSL is a really great car to drive even if it doesn't have the same badge cachet that the gt3 has. The last proper M car IMO.

ferdi p said: I'm fortunate enough to own my cars outright at mo, however I've financed lots of my previous cars & I'm still alive to talk about it!! Many here will tell you; Never finance a depreciating asset... Buy a flat & rent it out... If you have to ask, blah, blah, blah... Think about the running costs... The world is about to crash... If you can afford the payments & have factored in depreciation & running costs then i say go for it Agreed. You only live once. This thread will give you a view on risks and running costs. £5k per year as Mrdemon says is probably a good estimate and probably the same again for depreciation/ trader margin etc.

arcamalpha said: mrdemon said: Harris_I said: You make 10.8% per annum in the current environment? you had better re read my post :-) and not just quote a part of it. I think he did read it and understood it the same way as I did - your post implies you think you could make £900 a month from a £100k investment. Presumably you meant that you could buy something and rent it with a £900/month income or something along those lines. That's a whole different thing from £900/month 'net'. Edited by arcamalpha on Tuesday 30th December 10:57 In fairness to Demon his post clearly meant if interest rates rise again to a position that favors people with savings again then 100k in cars would be daft.

N Cheburator mk2 said: Stonking car, but trust me, having had a really good poke around a few, driven a really sorted one - PSS10s, Brembos all round, DZ03s (265s square set up on 18s), Supersprint exhaust and headers, DMS remap on the Ring, there was no getting away from the feeling that the basis (although an excellent one) is a saloon car. I thought I would never say that, but then I had not driven a sorted Mk1 CS like mine before. Moreover, on the Continent, where I prefer to buy my toy cars, the CSL has already overtaken the 996 GT3 in the price wars. Lastly, having had a very sorted E46 M3, there is no getting away from the fact that £20k can buy you and build you a street E46 M3 that would be miles better than a boggo CSL. Try that with a standard 996 and a 996 GT3... Interesting prices abroad are still strong abroad I've bought from Germany before & wanted to do the same with the CSL over 8 years ago, but found the uk to be cheaper. Had a discussion with a M engineer in Germany regarding the csl & GTS & he said the cheap way for a track car was to start with a base E46. They are also very disappointed that BMW have not continued with proper M cars like porsche have with the gt3.

trawler said: They are also very disappointed that BMW have not continued with proper M cars like porsche have with the gt3. Oh no, it's about to get messy in here...

LaSource said: Sorry to confuse you. Means 'borrowing' Look it up, it doesn't mean borrowing it means borrowing specifically to make money, your post below shows you think it means "borrowing" and you used the word in all three previous posts, I guess the clever word makes you feel good, just say borrow next time LaSource said: Let's not get carried away now. We are not talking about buying the cars as an investment. We are talking about enjoying a car to drive and financing that enjoyment via leverage. .

Harris_I said: Oh no, it's about to get messy in here... Need to visit cutters for a discussion on proper M cars. Porsche owners are far more sensible. :roll eyes:

TB993tt said: LaSource said: Sorry to confuse you. Means 'borrowing' Look it up, it doesn't mean borrowing it means borrowing specifically to make money, your post below shows you think it means "borrowing" and you used the word in all three previous posts, I guess the clever word makes you feel good, just say borrow next time LaSource said: Let's not get carried away now. We are not talking about buying the cars as an investment. We are talking about enjoying a car to drive and financing that enjoyment via leverage. . Nope. I felt fine before and feel fine now. No need to impress you. However, you seem to have an insecurity chip somewhere. Seems to happen on PH every now and then (ie would not speak to someone like that in a pub, etc - what did you say? Something about 'w ky' language?) You can look it up too. A mortgage on a home is a leveraged purchase too...not always for making money, though usually is used that way in investment language. Anyway, you knew what I meant without trying to be trollish about making yourself feel good. So before someone says 'get a room you two', shall we leave it there? I've little interest in continuing this off topic debate.

Meanwhile back on planet Earth, is my Silver Comfort Mk1 worth 100K yet ??

ArcticGT3 said: Meanwhile back on planet Earth, is my Silver Comfort Mk1 worth 100K yet ?? Who cares! …… Does anyone know what a 2007 997.1 GT3 comfort with PCCB brakes is worth?

The 1M isn't comparable to a CSL/6GT3 imo, it's more on a parr with a Cayman R. Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3. Demon, what clutch issues are you referring to on the CSL ? I ran a supercharger for 2yrs on a std clutch set up with zero issues other than the typical slurring if it's not driven properly/hard enough.

Would have a csl (brakes as standard are a challenge i admit) or 6gt3 many many times over the cayman r. No contest at all imo.

Mmmmm. I'll take a rear engined car over a mid or front/rear drive car in the winter every day. I'd happily drive a GT3 every day in all weathers. I wouldn't feel quite as comfortable in my Elise S1 sport 190 which according to Mrdemon's philosophy has a better dynamic layout. With the correct tyres, I cannot think of any Porsche as not being capable in all weathers in all seasons and in terms of unburtstability the GT3 (991 excluded) will be the best of the bunch Edited by Steve Rance on Wednesday 31st December 11:13

anonymous said: [redacted] I have the exact same sentiments to what you have described, which is why I can't think of any car that could replace my 997.1 GT3. I have driven a 1M and it looked great from the outside but the inside is very ordinary with no sense of occasion or being special. This was compounded by the fact that it had a very dull sound. I think the CSL will have more excitement and sense of occasion with the unique interior and the fabulous intake noise. For me it is these small things that make the car more enjoyable and exciting to drive. The sad fact is that with modern cars becoming turbo and the death of the manual gearbox it is becoming increasingly difficult to buy something new that ticks all these boxes. The only car I have driven recently that came close was a manual R8 V10 spyder however it did feel that bit more disconnected from the driving experience than the GT3.

isaldiri said: Would have a csl (brakes as standard are a challenge i admit) or 6gt3 many many times over the cayman r. No contest at all imo. A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas. I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too. Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box. Does anyone know what dealer fitted options are compared with factory, it's not a term I've heard before Below is an ad for a 1M The car also benefits from the following dealer fitted options: • BMW Performance carbon fibre boot spoiler • BMW Performance steering wheel, re-trimmed with matching Kyalami orange stitching • BMW Performance gloss black kidney grilles • BMW Performance pedals • BMW Darkline taillights • BMW N55 mid pipes (eliminates drone) • Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (which vastly improves grip!)

mrdemon said: As most people on here do have a car for mainly road use it's not great the GT3 comes last in 2 of those :-) Be good to place the R into that list, you choose one which comes 1st in one area and it comes last in another, I place the R 1st in all 3 :-) unless one is rich enough to keep a GT3 at Spa or the ring... the issue is one is a turbo over weight SWB CSL wanna be. (not really fun at all,are any turbo's after a while) The CSL while a fun car, it has s t brakes, you are changing out the RTAB every 6 months and it's an automatic which as all autos wears thin. and is now old with clutch issue. better to have owned one when they were newer imo. (fun to own mine lasted 8 months,the induction noise stays with you for life though) the GT3 is a Spa track car. (fun to say you have owned , mine lasted again 8 months) Add to that while most people seem to have there GT cars tucked up in bed or the 2 BMW are not even usable with this ice on the ground, I have been having fun and using my R every day this holiday. And last if the OP is more interested in money the R might go up also a tad. GT3 and CSL are tick box cars for car enthusiasts and while I can see a want for them both as a car enthusiast myself having owned both, you will move them on. By road car I meant one that say is your main car, driven by both you and spouse, may also be used for everyday trips (the odd school run, shopping, dinners). I have friends who have employ a 1M for this use. Another where the CSL was an outside parked work car. If the use is for weekend drives only, country runs, 2nd/3rd car for special occasion drives, then I would not rate the M cars above a GT3. Though a different person may have a different tolerance level for comfort (higher in an M car) or effort (higher effort required for a manual GT3) or cost (M car is cheaper) (Not sure how you can conclude that all GT3 owners will move them along after short ownership. Never had the impression you considered yourself the same as any other tom/dick/harry enthusiast ) Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 14:36 Edited by LaSource on Wednesday 31st December 14:37

I'm not looking for a daily driver in any of the three options. It would spend most of the winter in the garage. Summer months I'd love to do a trip to Spa or the Nordschleife and maybe a track day or two near me in Southwest London SW14 I think I've sadly ruled the GT3 out as its a stretch too far financially. Maybe when I reach my 40s I'm torn between the 1M and CSL, I like the 1M as it's manual and is a lot newer in terms of maintenace, also how different the 1M looks from other 1 series cars I like the CSL for its induction noise and carbon intake, its seats and steering wheel, not convinced on the SMG although have never tried it. There's not a lot visually separating the CSL from the E46 M3 from an uneducateds perspective. Now I've never driven any of the mentioned cars, and I'm sure the above R eads like a 5 year old writing about his school trip to the race track.

Geesus said: A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas. I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too. Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box. Does anyone know what dealer fitted options are compared with factory, it's not a term I've heard before Below is an ad for a 1M The car also benefits from the following dealer fitted options: • BMW Performance carbon fibre boot spoiler • BMW Performance steering wheel, re-trimmed with matching Kyalami orange stitching • BMW Performance gloss black kidney grilles • BMW Performance pedals • BMW Darkline taillights • BMW N55 mid pipes (eliminates drone) • Michelin Pilot Super Sport tyres (which vastly improves grip!) Dealer fitted options are out of the catalogue book which usually involves sticking bits to the car locally at the dealer. Things like bike carriers and snow chains etc. In this case a load of BMW performance parts.

^ Thanks vallance5 So not a detractor at all then in terms of future valuesthen? Seems strange the factory didn't offer these option considering they're genuine parts

Geesus said: ^ Thanks vallance5 So not a detractor at all then in terms of future valuesthen? Seems strange the factory didn't offer these option considering they're genuine parts I think they make them dealer fit options as they can be retro fitted at any point whether the car is brand new or not.

Geesus said: A Cayman in any guise does absolutely nothing for me, nor does a Boxster. I can't get past their looks to even be interested in how good they might be in other areas. I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially, so I now need to decide on the 1M vs CSL. I would look to replace the CSLs brakes with an AP or Alcon kit and no doubt look at suspension options too. Not sure what the 1M would need out of the box. Can't really say much about the 1M as I never tried one as I couldn't get past the turbo in a M car at the time. By all accounts it is a very nice car though from what I hear from friends who have tried/own one. The CSL IMO is a great car to drive and sound bloody brilliant, the SMG issues are much overblown as well. It is obviously not as much fun as a good manual but it's nothing as bad as some suggest. Would suggest just changing to braided hoses, proper brake fluid and different pads first and see how you find it before going the whole hog to the BBK conversion. It's also a good thing in my opinion it takes a genuine car person to spot a CSL from the boggo M3 in the first place.... Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 31st December 15:08

N Geesus said: I think the GT3 is sadly a stretch too far financially would you consider LHD?

keep it lit said: would you consider LHD? Without question yes, do you have some leads?

45k miles £36.5k .... yummy ! http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/porsche-996-g...

Geesus said: Now I've never driven any of the mentioned cars There is only one way to find out which is for you, go out & have a drive/look round a couple.

keep it lit said: 45k miles £36.5k .... yummy ! http://suchen.mobile.de/auto-inserat/porsche-996-g... Ha! Just to throw a spanner in the works... I wonder if one can get UK finance for a car purchased offshore? Resale in the U.K for a LHD GT3 would be near impossible wouldn't it?

ArcticGT3 said: The 1M isn't comparable to a CSL/6GT3 imo, it's more on a parr with a Cayman R. Bottom line is if you've 30K to spend on a toy buy a CSL, if you've 50K buy a 6GT3 Yes. I've scratched the 1M itch - sold it earlier this year after 5 months. Looks the part, but hugely overrated IMO. CSL - had mine nearly 2 years. Always an event to drive. Not too quick so easily usable. SMG has it's own character that needs a little time to grow on you - horrible in normal driving modes but fun when on it. Great seats, induction noise, handling, feel. Doubt a Cayman R would shake a CSL. BMW at it's best. The GT3 is the one to own though. It's a CSL and a bit more.

isaldiri said: Can't really say much about the 1M as I never tried one as I couldn't get past the turbo in a M car at the time. By all accounts it is a very nice car though from what I hear from friends who have tried/own one. The CSL IMO is a great car to drive and sound bloody brilliant, the SMG issues are much overblown as well. It is obviously not as much fun as a good manual but it's nothing as bad as some suggest. Would suggest just changing to braided hoses, proper brake fluid and different pads first and see how you find it before going the whole hog to the BBK conversion. It's also a good thing in my opinion it takes a genuine car person to spot a CSL from the boggo M3 in the first place.... Edited by isaldiri on Wednesday 31st December 15:08 I agree. The CSL is a very good car and, kept the 996 GT3 very honest. I am not denigrating the 1M but the CSL ( when fitted with decent brakes) can circulate a race track all day long without missing a beat and at very similar times to the 996 GT3. Very few cars could or can do that then without falling to bits or having heart failure reasonably quickly. When we took the 996RS to Spa to test the geo set up there was a well driven CSL there driven by a chap called Tony. I think he went on to race a modified CSL in Britcar. His car was a bit modified but not madly and from memory there wasn't a lot of time between the two cars - about 1.5/2 seconds I think. we shared some data traces and it turned out that i was finding a lot of time at eu rouge because I was still accelerating when he was braking. I think that in time, he could have made a bit of that up and reduced the gap. I was hugely impressed with the performance of the CSL. Wherever we went there seemed to be a few being hustled around quite quickly by different drivers. Many had a lot in common with the GT3 drivers of the time in that they were looking for a pure driving experience which was fast and rewarding. thankfully, I do not recall one conversation about stitching during that period. To me the CSL is an extremely good car - probably one of the very best if not the best M car ever built. A true performance car with serious track credentials. I'm sure that the 1M is very good, but it's far too bulky to be able to circulate at the same pace and reliability as a CSL. It would be like driving a boat by comparison. I'd be very happy to have a CSL in my garage. Obviously, i'd prefer a 996GT3 but if I were struggling to find the budget to buy one, a CSL would definitely be my first choice.

Phooey said: Yes The GT3 is the one Hey up dude

^ Thanks Steve, great reply. My arm is being twisted towards the CSL

keep it lit said: Hey up dude Howdy do Sir

Geesus said: Ha! Just to throw a spanner in the works... I wonder if one can get UK finance for a car purchased offshore? Resale in the U.K for a LHD GT3 would be near impossible wouldn't it? I nearly bought a new Z4M Coupe in Germany back in 2007. One of the chaps on here who does car finance, was more than happy to finance a car acquired abroad. At the end I bought one here. Resale on LHD GT3 impossible?! What makes you say that - given that RHD is impossible to get, I bet there will be plenty of UK enthusiasts who will buy LHD and enjoy the saving if you ever want to sell on. Think of the E30 M3 - LHD only has not stopped it going mental. Similar story with the 964RS. I specifically went LHD with my 996 GT3 CS this is how it was engineered to start with, the driving position is better, you also get the much bigger 89liter tank and last, but not least - your resale market is the whole of Europe not just the UK. The one in the advert has been tuned - aftermarket headers and suspension. Original parts are still available. Has full service history and the owner is happy to provide test drives. Switzerland is another place where GT3s are very cheap. Add 10% to asking prices to account for import duty + VAT... https://www.comparis.ch/carfinder/marktplatz/porsc... £44k landed in the UK with a list of mods and recent maintainence that will make Mr Know-all-need-to-talk-s t-demon spill his porridge.

keep it lit said: at your service https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcpQRqScWH8 f k that BMW sounds ACE! GT3 showing it's higher power-to-weight ratio and long 3rd gear. CSL was like an angry wasp that keeps coming back

The chap in the Porsche was a tad conservative on the brakes ( who can blame him there ) but was certainly pushing on the exits. Never under estimate a CSL

Cheburator mk2 said: The one in the advert has been tuned - aftermarket headers and suspension. Original parts are still available. Has full service history and the owner is happy to provide test drives. Switzerland is another place where GT3s are very cheap. Add 10% to asking prices to account for import duty + VAT... https://www.comparis.ch/carfinder/marktplatz/porsc... £44k landed in the UK with a list of mods and recent maintainence that will make Mr Know-all-need-to-talk-s t-demon spill his porridge. That's very nice, colour is nice too, is it a factory colour (excuse my ignorance). What's the procedure here roughly on importing something from Europe? Can I buy said car, drive it back to the U.K and then start the process?. Or is it more involved like back in New Zealand

I guess I'm in the fortunate position of owning both a 996.1 GT3 CS and a CSL. Both epic cars, with the huge sense of occasion; although VERY different. The induction noise from the CSL is unique. Sure the SMG 'box is an acquired taste but once mastered it feels so right, and lightning quick gear changes too. The brakes are the achilles heel despite being specially developed for the CSL. Thankfully, AP do a 6 pot caliper and big disc conversion for a little over £2k. CSLs are still seemingly good value in the UK (especially when compared to CSL prices in Germany). Excellent cars are ~£40k - but do your homework. The GT3 as most people who owned one will recognise is a VERY special car indeed, agile, tactile and so engaging. Whilst the noise isn't quite as brutal as a CSL at full chat - its utterly addictive. Unfortunately the increased values of Porsches over the last year has put this fabulous car out of many enthusiasts reach - 996.1 GT3 CSs are a rare beast, and to my mind an RS in all but name. I can't remember the last time I saw one advertised for sale, I imagine good ones would command £60k+ nowadays - may be more? A good friend of mine owned a couple of 1Ms, and whilst they are capable cars, they are not 'special' in the same way as a 96 GT3 or CSL is, suffice to say they didn't remain in his collection very long. By comparison to a CSL/GT3 they are a little bland, with no real sense of occasion; albeit a quick point to point road car which could easily double up as a daily driver. I recall the brakes on a 1M are also left wanting after some spirited driving, as with the CSL an AP 6 pot and big disc conversion will address this. With values of 1Ms slowly creeping up, they make a good CSL look like exceptional value.

anonymous said: [redacted] Spot on ..... Another planet just as you say. Feel/feedback, control weights and a strong sense of 'the machine' is KING.

I've just sold my CSL after 4 years, longest I kept a car before that was 12 months. The only reason it's gone is I'm overseas a lot and when I'm home and need a fun car I have the GT3 RS sat there. In a lot of situatios the CSL is more fun than the GT3. Especially on a UK B road. If I had missed the boat so to speak with gt3 prices or just couldn't find a good one I certainly wouldn't feel short changed by a CSL. Hell of a car... (With APs fitted )

Phooey said: keep it lit said: at your service https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcpQRqScWH8 f k that BMW sounds ACE! GT3 showing it's higher power-to-weight ratio and long 3rd gear. CSL was like an angry wasp that keeps coming back Cracklng to watch. I would say the CSL driver knows the circuit a lot better, GT3 is on the brakes too soon quite a bit.

Great vid but left wondering as to both drivers experience and track knowledge would have been really interesting to see the CSL go in front for a lap as the driver/car seemed better the the squiggly bits. Personally I'm still coming to terms with all the weight sitting out back which makes me nervous to push to hard. Great watching though.

How does a tweaked 993 or 964 compare? I assume they won't be as quick as a GT3 or CSL but would be as much fun, particularly on the road? I am thinking aspects such as feel, handling etc.

SidewaysSi said: How does a tweaked 993 or 964 compare? I assume they won't be as quick as a GT3 or CSL but would be as much fun, particularly on the road? I am thinking aspects such as feel, handling etc. Hi Si, interesting idea. I do love the 964 and 993, visually more than the 996 and 997 but it would have to be a turbo and those are both well beyond my reach until I win the lottery.

Steve Rance said: I agree. The CSL is a very good car and, kept the 996 GT3 very honest. I am not denigrating the 1M but the CSL ( when fitted with decent brakes) can circulate a race track all day long without missing a beat and at very similar times to the 996 GT3. Very few cars could or can do that then without falling to bits or having heart failure reasonably quickly. When we took the 996RS to Spa to test the geo set up there was a well driven CSL there driven by a chap called Tony. I think he went on to race a modified CSL in Britcar. His car was a bit modified but not madly and from memory there wasn't a lot of time between the two cars - about 1.5/2 seconds I think. we shared some data traces and it turned out that i was finding a lot of time at eu rouge because I was still accelerating when he was braking. I think that in time, he could have made a bit of that up and reduced the gap. I was hugely impressed with the performance of the CSL. Wherever we went there seemed to be a few being hustled around quite quickly by different drivers. Many had a lot in common with the GT3 drivers of the time in that they were looking for a pure driving experience which was fast and rewarding. thankfully, I do not recall one conversation about stitching during that period. To me the CSL is an extremely good car - probably one of the very best if not the best M car ever built. A true performance car with serious track credentials. I'm sure that the 1M is very good, but it's far too bulky to be able to circulate at the same pace and reliability as a CSL. It would be like driving a boat by comparison. I'd be very happy to have a CSL in my garage. Obviously, i'd prefer a 996GT3 but if I were struggling to find the budget to buy one, a CSL would definitely be my first choice. Another excellent post. 6 GT3 & E46CSL are icons, and will be even as new GT3's & CSL's are introduced 1M's shine will fade with the M2.

Geesus said: SidewaysSi said: How does a tweaked 993 or 964 compare? I assume they won't be as quick as a GT3 or CSL but would be as much fun, particularly on the road? I am thinking aspects such as feel, handling etc. Hi Si, interesting idea. I do love the 964 and 993, visually more than the 996 and 997 but it would have to be a turbo and those are both well beyond my reach until I win the lottery. I'm very much in the same position as you but realistically don't want to go much beyond £35k or so. One of the many "RS like" 964s may not be a bad answer-maybe lightened, caged, add a chip and a LSD and you are mostly there. Of course another option is a Lotus, in particular an Exige S2 which is easily in budget. And they hold their value pretty well too... Lastly, perhaps sacrilege for some but a modified 996 C2 e.g what RPM have done here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Edited by SidewaysSi on Thursday 1st January 17:13

SidewaysSi said: How does a tweaked 993 or 964 compare? I assume they won't be as quick as a GT3 or CSL but would be as much fun, particularly on the road? I am thinking aspects such as feel, handling etc. For me significantly more fun on the road (especially UK roads) ... and crucially, fun for a hell of a lot more of the time. Edited by jackal on Thursday 1st January 17:35

ttdan said: Phooey said: keep it lit said: at your service https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QcpQRqScWH8 f k that BMW sounds ACE! GT3 showing it's higher power-to-weight ratio and long 3rd gear. CSL was like an angry wasp that keeps coming back Cracklng to watch. I would say the CSL driver knows the circuit a lot better, GT3 is on the brakes too soon quite a bit. P seems to overslow all the time and have a problem commiting speed into and through the corner ? Maybe tentative because of being new to the cct or maybe a setup trait ? CSL maximising his brakes much much better too. If you swapped the two drivers the P would probably disappear after 3 bends !

Slippydiff said: ttdan said: TB993tt said: LaSource said: Anyway, you knew what I meant without trying to be trollish about making yourself feel good. You said the word in every single post, presumably trying to make yourself feel good about the leveraged (I am guessing but probably correct given your obsession with the word) purchases in your profile - I f king hate the way that so many people are just into these cars to make money and not to drive and enjoy them for what they are..... anyway HNY to you and all Somewhat sad and probably misinformed assumption based on a "word" in someones post...Why is this place so vitriolic at times. In fairness to Toby, that's BS. I really don't think you could accuse him of being vitriolic "at times"....... ..... much fairer to say he's consistently so. Given the chance to belittle anyone, Toby's always been more than willing to step up to the plate. T'was ever thus. OP. Have owned M3 CSL, 1M Coupe and Mk1 GT3, and would love to comment on here, but I think PH has pretty much reached the point of no return. Posting on here these days is akin to a broken pencil ........ Edited by Slippydiff on Wednesday 31st December 00:34 Brutal, but my sentiments exactly.....nicely put Slip.

Read all the comments and to me it seems it depands whether you are into road use or road + track. I'm only doing road work and i've had M3s and other Porsches and to me the 6GT3 is not only about the performance/handling and build integrity but also the whole ambience of sitting in the recaros and seeing the cage when you're driving and looking at the car as it sits in the garage and smelling it as it cools down. It speaks to you! Love it to bits!

I used finance so I could buy a gen 2 997 gt3rs in feb 2014 for £89k I used it as a daily driver, drove it to Le Mans, did a couple of track days and generally had a great time covering 6000 miles in 4 months In month 5 I was offered £125k so I sold it , cleared the finance and bought a 1M with the change The market is weird right now, get in using whatever method works before these terrific cars become unobtainable Ps my 1m is for sale, if you're interested pm me

anonymous said: [redacted] On the contrary, I think the second buyer made £25k off our poster by buying a car now worth £150k+ off him Anyway, lovely car the 1M. Should not be difficult to find a buyer.

Well I've lost an absolute fortune on cars over the years, its payback time (AKA luck and very careful selection) Edited by SteelySteve on Monday 2nd February 17:02

Finance helped me buy my GT3 two years ago, after selling my 993. If I had waited till I'd saved enough, I would've already missed the boat. Now, with the value where it is, I've realised I could do a lot more with the money, than it sitting outside, on the drive. I feel I've had my fun in it, Spa, Ring and an epic road trip to southern Spain. Now I see it as a fat deposit on a Buy to Let. I've never owned something, that's risen so much in value in two years, apart from my first house in 1987, but then plumitted two years later, and never owned a car thats practically selling itself, with just a mention on here I'll probably be one of those PH posters in a few years, who say I should've kept that GT3, but sold it in 2015 when they were worth 55k

Saw on Facebook that Camerons Porsche have 4xGT3's due in this week: 1 x 996 Mk1 1 x 996 Mk2 2 x 997 Gen 1 Not affiliated to Camerons Porsche but wanted to let anyone know who is potentially on the lookout. George

douglasgdmw said: Saw on Facebook that Camerons Porsche have 4xGT3's due in this week: 1 x 996 Mk1 1 x 996 Mk2 2 x 997 Gen 1 Not affiliated to Camerons Porsche but wanted to let anyone know who is potentially on the lookout. George Anyone fancy selling a 997.1 CS privately drop me a line I'm on the hunt after parting with 996CS