£20k 997 vs £15k 996 - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I am looking to replace my TVR with a 911 (Carrera 2, Manual), as it will be a more usable day to day proposition than my Chimaera (firstly, it won't wake the entire street up and secondly will be much nicer in traffic). However, I am in a quandary. My max budget is about £20k, and I have seen a few early 997's for that, but they would likely not be the finest example of 997 there is, I would assume (I haven't been to see any yet so this may be an incorrect assumption). Also, that would pretty much wipe out any pot for "omg disasters" in the short term. Whereas, if I went for a 996 at around £15k (or less), I would then have a kitty for potential issues. I do prefer the look and interior of the 997, but I have only driven 996's (2 - 1 tip and 1 manual, and preferred the manual). I have read a lot about all of the potential engine issues on these, and realise that the cars I am looking at in that "increased danger" range, which is why I am leaning towards the 996 over the 997. So, for example, these are 2 cars that have caught my eye - 997 - http://www.canfieldgarage.co.uk/used-cars/porsche-... (Annoyingly, I think this one has sold - http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... ) 996 - http://www.mr911.co.uk/cars/porsche/911/(996)3.6ca... I have seen a few comments/opinions on Mr911 and they are positive, so would be fairly happy going there, but I have seen nothing re Canfield Garage. Obviously due to the name and shame policy, if anyone has anything negative, please PM me. Any car I go for would be inspected prior to purchase, but I just want to set some realistic expectations right off the bat. So, if a £20k 997 is terrible idea, I'd like to know now.

I went for the 996 option with a small amount of spare funds. I may serve me well shortly! The 997 was very tempting though.

997 all day long... If you cant afford the 997 wait until you can...

Styling is a question of personal taste - I am sure you will have a favourite looker. The sold car had the work to the engine completed so you would like to think that there will be other sorted cars on offer at your price point. This fix would be my 'must have' over any particular options especially when moving from a driver aid-less TVR.

Having had the same dilemma I would and did go the 996 route. Get one that has had an engine rebuild by Hartech, there are plenty around. Leggy 997's are likely to have scored bores and its a big bill. A well sorted 996 C4S would be a better bet. If you can stretch or wait a bit the car to have is the 996 turbo as they are increasing in value.

That 997... "Hmmm, we need a picture of the keys to help us sell it. Where shall we put the sharp metal keys for the photo? I know! The bonnet!"

C4S's are lovely as are the very early pure 996's now. A nice position to be in, make sure you have a good specialist/s nearby.

S5V8 said: Get one that has had an engine rebuild by Hartech, there are plenty around. Are there? I found a single car when I was looking and as it turned out the owner had as minimal a rebuild as possible and the car could still have suffered from bore scoring.

I'm having exactly the same dilemma at the moment. My current thoughts are to get the best 996 C4S I can find, and fund a good engine overhaul and preventative maintenance programme. . . The thing that puts me of later cars is the late type IMS bearing that a lot of web sites say can't be serviced. Very few cars for sale seem to have had the standard of engine overhaul that I'd want if I had it done myself, so I figure it's best to buy the car, then do the overhaul.

I hadn't really considered a C4S, mainly because I'm not looking for 4WD. Although now on further reading, they are potentially the better buy? I've also seen a couple of 40th Anniversary models and didn't really know why they were special until reading up. This is hard! I did of course have option 3 in mind, which was to buy a "cheap" 996 and then just get the engine rebuilt etc with the left over funds.

A good Anniversary is fun 996 to own. Some of them are a bit overpriced. C4S looks better though. It's not very AWD, so don't panic.

I sold my 98 chimaera 3 years ago for a 2004 c4s, a very different car in every way but I can get the kids in the back of the 911

S5V8 said: Having had the same dilemma I would and did go the 996 route. Get one that has had an engine rebuild by Hartech, there are plenty around. Leggy 997's are likely to have scored bores and its a big bill. A well sorted 996 C4S would be a better bet. If you can stretch or wait a bit the car to have is the 996 turbo as they are increasing in value. Likely?

In terms of feedback, steering feel etc. on the road how would people who have experience of both 996 and 997 (C2) say they compare? And do either feel special/raw enough to use as a weekend car? - M030 worth seeking out?

If you are buying outright, i would be applying man maths and financing myself up for a nice 997! I just don't know how you could look at those two cars and even contemplate the 996; the 997 is so much better looking.

My M030 car (40 Jahre) had a lot more feel than our C4S 996. Both 996s give more feedback than the 997s that replaced them.

Monsterlime said: I did of course have option 3 in mind, which was to buy a "cheap" 996 and then just get the engine rebuilt etc with the left over funds. I think you're getting too paranoid about the engine issues... the vast majority of cars out there have never needed a rebuild. Getting an engine rebuilt as a preventative measure is madness IMO.

I was surprised to see how many 997s are for sale below £20,000. Usually the non-S 3.6 which is often seen as the poor man's choice but in reality it's a fine car (it may be 40bhp behind the 3.8 S but it's still 20bhp more than a 3.6 996). I think I'd be looking at those for late teens.

buy a low mileage 996 (we bought a 43k miles Cab for £12k recently check it carefully, check all the service history and receipts (walk away its there's no history (or pay very little for the car)) have it maintained by a good Porsche specialist Enjoy - use it until you have saved up enough to move up to a 997, you will likely find you get your money back

Cayenneand996 said: buy a low mileage 996 (we bought a 43k miles Cab for £12k recently check it carefully, check all the service history and receipts (walk away its there's no history (or pay very little for the car)) have it maintained by a good Porsche specialist Enjoy - use it until you have saved up enough to move up to a 997, you will likely find you get your money back Very poor advice in my experience, the older low-milers have been far more problematic than newer cars, and the money you might have to spend replacing radiators suspension & brakes will eat right into your savings

thegoose said: I was surprised to see how many 997s are for sale below £20,000. Usually the non-S 3.6 which is often seen as the poor man's choice but in reality it's a fine car (it may be 40bhp behind the 3.8 S but it's still 20bhp more than a 3.6 996). I think I'd be looking at those for late teens. I thought the 3.6 997 had the same 320bhp as the 3.6 gen 2 996 And the 3.8 has 355bhp so just 35 bhp more than the 3.6 996 and 997. I have a 996 C4S and recently drove a 997 C2S and other than steering feel (much lighter in he C2S) I really couldn't tell any performance difference despite my car being 35bhp down and having the extra weight and drag of the 4 wheel drive system. Edited by Roberty on Tuesday 27th January 13:25

I have a 996 and 997. For 20K I would buy a 996.1 C2 3.4 Manual coupe in a colour that you like with good service history. In terms of spec I would look for the following (in order of desirability/necessity): -Hartech full rebuild -PSE -M030 The steering feel and balance of the 996 is wonderful and they are currently selling for criminally low prices. Buy the 997 if you worry about what the neighbours think looks nicest/newer or if you can't overcome the whole fried egg thing

Thanks for the advice all. I am going to try and get a drive in both a C4S and a 997 C2 this weekend/shortly, as how it feels and drives is rather important! However, price wise, I'm seeing a lot of C4S's at around the £20k mark. Is this strong or reasonable? There are some others at around £17k, so again, I'd just like to set the necessary expectations. Both of the 40th Anniversary cars I have seen are also at about the £20k mark.

Monsterlime said: However, price wise, I'm seeing a lot of C4S's at around the £20k mark. Is this strong or reasonable? There are some others at around £17k, so again, I'd just like to set the necessary expectations. Both of the 40th Anniversary cars I have seen are also at about the £20k mark. I bought my C4S for £20k a year ago. The same garage where I bought it currently has three C4S's for sale all in less desirable colours (subjective maybe) with similar or greater miles for £22-24k. From this evidence it would seem they may be on the up or certainly holding their value something I don't think you could say about the 997's which were few and far between at this price point a year ago.

Monsterlime said: However, price wise, I'm seeing a lot of C4S's at around the £20k mark. Is this strong or reasonable? There are some others at around £17k, so again, I'd just like to set the necessary expectations. There's a pretty wide spread on these, some of them will be overpriced at £20k. At £20k it needs to be low mileage, good service history and have PSE.

Assuming the OP enjoyed how they both drive equally, I'd be going for the C4S, ideally without PCM if possible. A 6 C4S is a more visually pleasing car from the outside than a 7.1 C2 IMHO, and will hold it's value better. The interior of the 996 is already dated and beginning to look pleasingly retro, whereas a 7.1 interior is now starting to look old and is still dating.

When talking low mileage, what are we talking here? The ones at £20k have around 55,000 miles and for £17k the mileage are at about 80,000.

Mario149 said: The interior of the 996 is already dated and beginning to look pleasingly retro, whereas a 7.1 interior is now starting to look old and is still dating. This is a fair point, considering some of the criticism the 996 comes in for it's interior I was surprised how plasticky the 997's interior was. Personally I like the 996 interior and the C4S got a number of options as standard.

When I was selling the C4S a couple of years ago, I found that conditioned varied a lot more than the pricing. For mileage 60-80k should do much for price. Sports exhaust is highly recommended and sought after. The 40 year cars are overpriced in my opinion. Unlike the C4S, they don't have a big following. I say that as a lover of the car. I really enjoyed mine. The £30,000 is notable in that it doesn't even have the correct wheels.

Roberty said: Mario149 said: The interior of the 996 is already dated and beginning to look pleasingly retro, whereas a 7.1 interior is now starting to look old and is still dating. This is a fair point, considering some of the criticism the 996 comes in for it's interior I was surprised how plasticky the 997's interior was. Personally I like the 996 interior and the C4S got a number of options as standard. Yup. I came out of a Maser 4200 into my C4S back in 2009 or so - the Maser's interior was very pretty and a lovely place to be, but I didn't feel short changed by my C4S, it just felt a bit more sensible and German. It still had all the leather that I wanted, only thing I would have liked was the few extra silver trim bits (different gear nob and a couple of other bits, forget what the option was called). I got a poverty spec (although it did have PDK) 987 Boxster as a courtesy car once, the interior was more modern but horrible, loads of plastic on the dash....eurgh. Couldn't wait to get back into my C4S. ETA: PSE would be nice but not a deal breaker for me, not when there are options like Carnewal exhausts for ~EUR500

Roberty said: I thought the 3.6 997 had the same 320bhp as the 3.6 gen 2 996 And the 3.8 has 355bhp so just 35 bhp more than the 3.6 996 and 997. Sorry, my mistake. The point still stands that a standard 997 Carrera is just as powerful as a 996, but the car itself isn't much dearer to buy for a much more modern looking package.

The 996 C4S with X51 power pack is a nice car - I've had mine for almost three years and it's easily the best car I've owned... Agreed that the interior on the 997 isn't anything special. 'Pleasingly retro' is a perfect way to describe the 996 interior imho

Monsterlime said: Thanks for the advice all. I am going to try and get a drive in both a C4S and a 997 C2 this weekend/shortly, as how it feels and drives is rather important! However, price wise, I'm seeing a lot of C4S's at around the £20k mark. Is this strong or reasonable? There are some others at around £17k, so again, I'd just like to set the necessary expectations. Both of the 40th Anniversary cars I have seen are also at about the £20k mark. The 40ths are wonderful cars - I live in the USA and own one myself (Nr. 0711). If you'd like more info about them you might check out the 911 40th Registry (I manage the Registry along with some help from two 40th owners in England and another in Germany): www.facebook.com/40jahre911 Best of luck with the search - whatever you buy I'm sure you'll enjoy. Cheers. Ted

Hi All, Sorry for jumping on the back of this thread. But I too am looking at this sort of price range. Would a 997 C2S with 72k miles at £22k put you off. What about when it's done 80k or 90k miles is it going to be impossible to shift?

This is literally the decision i made the other day! After a few months looking at 997s, then 996s, then Caymans, then back to 997s and back to 996s (you get the picture) i bought a 996 C4S. It's been said before and lots of good points are raised in this thread about the 996 vs. 997 debate but i found the following: 997's look fantastic and the design is spot on. Unfortunately i found £20K 997s are not the best examples, normally high mileage or undesirable colours/specs, or there is a reason they appear on the cheaper side of 997 ownership. Spend a bit more (£22k+ ?) i think you get a better example. Due to man maths i found myself saying well if i spend a bit more then i get an even better car and so on and so on, before long your looking at a Gen 2 Car for over £30K! 996s are perfect for my budget (a car i will use at weekends). I love how the narrow bodied cars look so small nowadays, i think they are a future classic but the lack of width at the rear (Hips) sometimes gives them a strange look and it loses out to the aircooled & 997 shape because of this. Early 3.4s are incredible value but theres a good chance you will have to look at quite a few to find a really good well loved car. The really cheap cars are cheap for a reason but there are bargains to be had out there! C4S will perhaps hold there money. The wider body in my eyes retains the shape (Hips) a 911 should have but still remains a small looking car in today's modern cars.

Markanoid76 said: Hi All, Sorry for jumping on the back of this thread. But I too am looking at this sort of price range. Would a 997 C2S with 72k miles at £22k put you off. What about when it's done 80k or 90k miles is it going to be impossible to shift? A 997 with 80k or 90k on the clock will shift but it will be reflected in the price you can get for it.

kel176506 said: This is literally the decision i made the other day! After a few months looking at 997s, then 996s, then Caymans, then back to 997s and back to 996s (you get the picture) i bought a 996 C4S. It's been said before and lots of good points are raised in this thread about the 996 vs. 997 debate but i found the following: 997's look fantastic and the design is spot on. Unfortunately i found £20K 997s are not the best examples, normally high mileage or undesirable colours/specs, or there is a reason they appear on the cheaper side of 997 ownership. Spend a bit more (£22k+ ?) i think you get a better example. Due to man maths i found myself saying well if i spend a bit more then i get an even better car and so on and so on, before long your looking at a Gen 2 Car for over £30K! 996s are perfect for my budget (a car i will use at weekends). I love how the narrow bodied cars look so small nowadays, i think they are a future classic but the lack of width at the rear (Hips) sometimes gives them a strange look and it loses out to the aircooled & 997 shape because of this. Early 3.4s are incredible value but theres a good chance you will have to look at quite a few to find a really good well loved car. The really cheap cars are cheap for a reason but there are bargains to be had out there! C4S will perhaps hold there money. The wider body in my eyes retains the shape (Hips) a 911 should have but still remains a small looking car in today's modern cars. Thanks kel176506 and Roberty - I totally agree with kel176506's view especially about 996s (non C4S). In the end I decided to decline the car I was looking at. I'm sure it's a great car but just not right for me at the moment. If it was a third car that might have been a different matter. Now back to the ever confusing drawing board. Thanks very much for thoughts and advice.