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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHAftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Reported or suspected cause
clamps vs
Reported cause
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0
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Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
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Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Read full discussion summary
Leading evidence: 'clamps vs' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'clamps vs' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check carb website' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Use on the
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Unsuccessful attempts
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Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
california doesn't want
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
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Suspected cause
I suspect California doesn't want to allow aftermarket cats because:
Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Check carb website
Suggestion or failed attempt
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Discussions
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
Please check the CARB website before you get rid of your stock intake manifold or take your
Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Test ourselves
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Suggestion
At the risk of coming off as a bit arrogant I gotta admit, after trying about 10 different muffler configurations our cat-back sounds fantastic and makes as much power as anything we've read about :drivingskid: (we are bringing in competietive product to test for ourselves to be sure).
Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Use aftermarket cats and it's also up
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Suggestion
Obviously it's up to you if you want to use aftermarket cats and it's also up to you if you have any interest in understanding the laws before you make your decision.
Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Use aftermarket cats and just eliminating the cats alltogether
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1
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Suggestion
Just remember that according to CARB and EPA regulations there's no difference between using aftermarket cats and just eliminating the cats alltogether.
Aftermarket Cats/ "Sport Cats" etc. and California Emissions Laws
Coverage and how to read this overview
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
15 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Planet-9: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Outcome without a verified action link
Just remember that according to CARB and EPA regulations there's no difference between using aftermarket cats and just eliminating the cats alltogether.
To clear up some possible confusion about "50 State Street Legal" claims made by some
exhaust
manufacturers regarding aftermarket cats for the
Cayman
.
All aftermarket catalytic convertors for the
Cayman
are illegal California if the car is still within the warranty period.
Actually, for any vehicle 2006 or newer, replacement of the OEM catalyst is not allowed for vehicles that are still within their warranty period.
Furthermore, there must be an "Exemption Number" available through the California Air Resource Board (CARB) for any catalytic convertor to be considered street legal in California for any vehicle. You can find this information here
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/afterm...ces/amquery.php
If you live in California please be very careful regarding "50 state street legal" claims regarding catalytic convertors. Beware of manufacturers who are new to the game and have not done their homework or are willing to take the risk of deceiving their customers.
I would hate to see Cayman owners left with a vehicle that is not street legal. At the very least, re-purchasing the stock exhaust setup is a costly endeavor not to mention the hassle.
Here is a link to all CARB exempt catalytic convertors.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/afterm...ermktdevice.php
As you can see, there is nothing CARB exempt that is newer than 2004 and there is nothing in any year for Porsche.
Other states are beginning to adopt CARB's laws. As you know emissions has become a major political topic and there are elctions coming up. I would expect things to get more strict regardless you live.
The bottom line is this. KEEP YOUR STOCK EXHAUST PARTS SO YOU CAN RETURN THE CAR TO STOCK IF NEED BE!!!!
Obviously it's up to you if you want to use aftermarket cats and it's also up to you if you have any interest in understanding the laws before you make your decision.
Also, please remember that there are state laws and there are federal laws. If the EPA decides to enforce their current emissions laws then this whole aftermarket catalyst thing is over. If you can't return to the OE catalyst you will not be able to register your Porsche for street use.
In my opinion (and it's just my opinion), there's no reason to use aftermarket cats as they are just as illegal as eliminating the cats alltogether. Unfortunately, you will have to swap your performance system out and replace it with the OE exhaust when it comes time for street use and smog tests.
Sux to live in California I guess. The whole point of a cat is to scrub the
exhaust
gases. I suspect California doesn't want to allow aftermarket cats because:
1) Protects automotive industry
2) Creates a new way to generate fees and revenue for the state by requiring aftermarket cat certification.
Truth be told the 400 cell
Porsche
cats from the factory originally used on the
Cayman
were just as likely to trip a CE light as a 200 cell aftermarket cat. What does that say about the quality of the OEM product?
The reason I run aftermarket cats is 2 fold:
A) more performance over stock
B) still cuts down pollution vs. running open header with no cat
We could make the argument (and some in california are) that all gasoline powered cars should go away and maybe someday they will and the environment will be better off for it. Until then, I'll try to strike a balance between performance and the environment in a state that allows me the freedom to do so.
In a perfect world if California is going to have emissions limits then they should be just that, limits on certain items found in the
exhaust
stream. Whether you get down to below those limits with OEM cats or a tin can and bailing wire shouldn't matter. If California isn't going to test all cats equally and fairly then what's the point?
I concur very much with your assessment that if you live in California or similar states you should keep your stock
exhaust
laying around. I don't live in California and I still keep mine laying around, heck I might even polish it up if I get bored some day and have extra time!
I also concur that if an
exhaust
maker claims their
exhaust
is California legal that they should show you the documentation that they've passed the tests, etc. and that you'd be legal to install it. Sounds as if from what you are saying above is that no aftermarket
exhaust
is legal in California while a car is under warranty. Of course people will still change out their exhausts...
Actually no.
This is only true for the Cayman or vehicles where the factory cats cannot be employed in an aftermarket system. As you know, the Cayman has 2 cats welded to the exhaust rear section so the only way to get them off is to cut them and this is illegal per CARB.
However on the 997 and 997S for instance, the cats are attached via clamps (as opposed to welds). In this case, we were able to keep the factory cats intact in the same exact locations so the system is 100% street legal in California and does not need an exemption from CARB.
At this point it's actually a rare exception to find a vehicle that has cats welded to the exhaust. Most vehicles use slip fit connections or flanges for their cats making it very easy to create 100% 50 state street legal cat-back exhaust systems.
Unfortunately for the Cayman, all aftermarket exhaust systems are in violation of CARB laws. Accordingly, the exhaust systems are illegal for street use in California and must be for "off road use only" or "track use only". When it comes time for street use and smog tests you will have to return your vehicle to stock.
So the whole issue is clamps vs. welds... sounds about right for California law makers...
Perhaps we can convince
Porsche
to zip-tie factory cats instead.
Crazy California. This should probably be moved to the regional forum as it doesnt pertain to normal states much less the greatest state in the country, Texas.
Unfortunately the federal laws (per the EPA) are very similar to California laws and if they decide to enforce them it will most definitely affect Texas and all states (obviously).
The best way to mitigate any risk is to hold on to your stock
exhaust
setup. Then you're covered regardless becuase you can go back to stock if need be.
Are you reffering to an intake manifold? If so, they need CARB certification as well.
Unfortunately, it seems that you have the same problem with a Plenum that you do with an
exhaust
. It's most likely not street legal in California.
I looked at the CARB database and did not find one CARB certfied intake manifold for the
Cayman
.
Please check the CARB website before you get rid of your stock intake manifold or take your
Cayman
to get smogged with an aftermarket piece.
Garrett - while you make some
points
here, I have to ask you to please stay on the technical/automotive topic here, and leave the politics out of it. In the posting rules we specifically ask members to
not
add politics into these discussions, since it has been our experience that it never turns out very well... feel free to post an automotive diatribe, but please leave the politics out of it.
Please everyone, let's stay on topic here, or it's going to get locked down.
brad
It makes sense from the perspective that removing Cats is almost never going to result in better emissions. I mean, when is someone going to put on a more restrictive system?
But making it illegal to change means it is easier to enforce. After all, you just check to see if things are OEM. If the law were based on actual standards, the testing to prove a violation would make it too administratively difficult. Some of things these are for administrative expendience.
By the way, Solar panels are subsidized in the US by the government, up to 40%. It is actually profitable to have them.
As for what people do in their 20s, well, people are entitled to grow, learn and change their minds. That is what it is all about after all
Thanks for posting this information, David. The DMV websites cover emissions related issues very poorly, and there is a lot of conjecture and hearsay on this topic in various web forums. It's great to see some authoritative info on this topic. Hard to find and accurate info like this is what makes a forum great.
Yes we are up to our necks in
Cayman
exhaust
development at the moment (and loving every minute of it btw).
Per U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resource Board regulations, any and all cat-backs or
headers
for the
Cayman S
are for "off road use only" regardless of the manufacturer.
The difference with the
Borla
system is just that we have made the effort to understand the law and will alert our customers appropriately. After 30 years of success in the automotive aftermarket we have been fortunate enough to attain a high level of consumer confidence and this is extremely valuable to us. We won't jeapordize that respect for anything.
Regardless of the manufacturer, please remember to remove your aftermarket
exhaust
components and return your vehicle to stock when it comes time for street use and smog tests.
At the risk of coming off as a bit arrogant I gotta admit, after trying about 10 different muffler configurations our cat-back sounds fantastic and makes as much power as anything we've read about :drivingskid: (we are bringing in competietive product to test for ourselves to be sure). It's also totally different than anything on the market and employs our patented XR-1"multicore" technology. Our system looks great and makes power but the sound enhancement is my personal favorite. I think you guys will be pleased.
Thanks for your interest :thanks:
Very true and the same goes for the police/highway patrol.
At the moment it's just CARB and the EPA that seem to be focusing on this.
The issue of enforcing these regulations is an entirely different topic but as a manufacturer I have to follow these laws to a "tee".
Just remember that according to CARB and EPA regulations there's no difference between using aftermarket cats and just eliminating the cats alltogether.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.