Eibach Pro Springs, now steering is very loose!

Hello everyone, looking for some help or advice here (other than to go back to stock springs!) Recently had my stock 987.1 cayman in to my local garage to install Eibach Pro springs which advertised a 30mm drop which is what I was after. After installation I have the 30mm drop, but the steering has become very, very loose, it feels so bad it feels almost dangerous to drive and feels very imprecise and wishy washy. Before the springs my car steering felt millimetre perfect and you could turn slighlty and had no looseness or play whatsoever. I had the car in for a 4-wheel alignment to make sure it wasn't that and the stats are all looking good on the alignment (with -1.5 neg camber all round and the rest zeros) + the car sits flat on an even surface. Any ideas? My garage have not done a porsche before although they have done springs on many other cars. In hindsight obviously I wish I had found a porsche specialist but now I have to do something to fix it! Is there something they could have gotten wrong or missed out on replacing the springs? I have tried to search for other with similar problems to no avail although I have seen some mention of "bushings" or something which I don't know about. The garage re-used all bits for re-assembly so only the springs were changed. Any help greatly appreciated

First off, welcome to the site! Second, whenever new springs that are lower are installed on a 987.1 Cayman you will have a change in steering feel, ride feel, etc. Now whether or not what you are feeling is just the difference due to the change in suspension geometry or something else I don't know. But your steering should not feel drastically different or become very very loose as you describe, that does not seem right. Did they leave something unattached or reattach it in the wrong fashion? There are things that can go wrong or be reinstalled incorrectly. For example the first time my suspension was done they accidentally broke the auto-leveling plastic arm attached to the suspension for the headlights , but that tripped an error on the dash so we knew right away and replaced the broken part. To just change the front springs they should not have needed to muck up your steering, but they might have if they didn't know what they were doing and either left some part off or didn't get some part re-attached correctly. You may have to go to a Porsche dealership or Porsche expert aftermarket shop to get it figured out as there is nothing obvious that comes to mind.

Hi thanks for your reply, I have read on other forums that Eibach Pro springs on this car should not make a drastic steering difference in feel - so I'm sure they have messed something up as it's just too poor. It's going back to the same garage next week and they are going to have a look but they don't really know what to look for so they mentioned they might check the top mounts - not sure if top mount poor adjustment could cause steering to become so loose? Also wondering what the likely parts are to have been broken on removal or replaced wrongly? Maybe that's just a silly question. Hoping to at least maybe have a few clues to get them to try when it's back there. Failing that will take to specialist!

You mention the camber setting but not the toe. If this is out it will give the sort of symptoms you describe.

fyi current alignment is Camber Left front -1.15 Right front -0.57 Left rear -1.51 Right rear -1.53 Caster Left front 7.47 Right front 7.51 Toe Left front 0.02 Right front 0.02 Left rear 0.03 Right rear 0.03 Total toe Front 0.05 Rear 0.06 Steer ahead 0.00 Thrust angle 0.00 Does this look right? Is there something I should adjust to get steering feeing back? Would replacing top camber plates with built in bushing help? (Read somewhere)

not sure if it matters w/ 30 mm drop??? but swaybar end links could probably use swapping out due to the angle change caused by the drop?? Doubt that would cause what you're describing tho.

Your suspension geometry looks ok and certainly shouldn't cause the problem you're experiencing. Can you be a bit more descriptive as to what you mean by a 'loose' feel to the steering. Does it feel like the front end is losing grip? Does the power steering feel over assisted? etc.

Hi the car doesn't feel like it's loosing grip - it still feels planted. The steering just feels way overly assisted. It also feels like you are having to turn the steering wheel 20 degrees before anything starts happening - like if you are driving in a straight line you can move the steering left and right without turning much. My Honda 4x4 has more direct steering now . Before the new springs every small movement of the steering wheel resulted in an immediate change of direction of the car. I hope this makes sense? I find it hard to believe this is what people have to put up with if they have their car lowered? Surely there is either something wrong or something I can replace or adjust to achieve direct steering again? Then I would have the perfect setup I just wish I knew enough to know what to look for or adjust or at least check. I would like to know if anyone else on new 30mm lower springs has the same problem. Should I have got new shocks too? At this point I'm willing to consider anything I just want my car back ideally if I could keep these springs that would be perfect as the car does look awesome which is currently the only benefit.

how old are your stock absorbers? what did the front absorber bushes look like? (they're the ones that look like white/red foam) I understand that shorter springs work best with an absorber designed for lowered suspensions such as the Bilstein B8.

I had one leak 6 months ago so replaced it OEM. The other 3 as far as I know may have been there all it's life (it's a 2006). Not sure if shocks are replaced under normal servicing it has a full history. Didn't see them do the work but when I go back next week I'm going to watch them take it apart and see the parts - which of this diagram is the front bushes (white/red) that you speak of?

ok after much research and googling I think I have narrowed this problem down to caster angle. I reckon my +7.5 caster is too little and I need to increase it some to regain some feel in the steering. Now I need to find out how I can go about doing that given that apparently it's not adjustable... if I can get my caster to +8.5 I think I'll have my steering back and my ideal setup. Has anyone got any tips on how to increase caster i.e. what parts / where to get parts to allow me to do it? This looks promising Elephant Racing | Wishbone Caster Adjuster | Porsche Boxster/Cayman

I'm not convinced that this is the cause of your problem, but happy to be proved wrong. The simplest way to increase the castor would be to fit adjustable top mounts. I don't know off-hand who does them, but I'm reasonably certain that KW will as I have them fitted to my track EVO.

I think you are probably correct - I just spoke to my local porsche specialist and they told me all 4 springs are "incorrectly seated". So I've had to book to take the car back to the original garage who fitted the springs to sort it out - worrying thing is I'm not sure they know how to "correctly" seat the springs or how to verify if they are correctly seated!?. I've tried youtube in the hope there was some form of guide on 987 spring changes but can't find anything. I should have left it stock lol!

tjfayaz, from what I've observed during my last absorber swap, the procedure for seating the springs is similar to the procedure used for any other car, didn't notice anything special.... you also mentioned you changed 1 absorber? usually swapped in pairs... and the others are 10 years old? the part i mentioned is no9 in your diagram.

yes 1 absorber (front nearside) was leaking so it got replaced on it's own. The others I think are 10yrs old. My car handled IMO perfectly though before the new springs and immediately after the new springs the steering has just gone loose and was on motorway yesterday the steering was so light you have to keep on your toes to keep it from wandering around. So car is booked for garage who did the springs to check it on Wednesday but if you say seating the springs is the same as any other (and I know the same garage has done many of these before just not porsches) then how could they incorrectly seat 4 springs? I will get them to look at the front absorber bushes (no. 9 in diagram) too thanks. Just as I thought I had a simple answer it seems I need to investigate more. Was hoping simply use adjustable control arm bushes to give me 1 degree more caster would resolve the light steering and I could be done with it! Frustrating but when and if I finally get it sorted it will have been a learning curve.

the suspension geometry will be the main fix.. the condition of the bush is just an indicator of the condition of the absorber which is likely another key factor.

Ok well just in case anything is obvious here is a pic of one of the fronts . I think the top of the Spring might need to be higher hence not seated correctly?

You forgot the photo, dude.

oops, here - I'll try and get a better shot in the morning - does the spring look wrongly seated from what you can see here?

UPDATE been to a 2nd porsche specialist who says the springs look to have been installed just fine but took a test drive and agrees the steering is overly light. I'm going to drop my front tyre pressures from 30 to 28 and see if that helps but I always used to run on 30psi no problem before the springs. Garage suggested maybe the springs lowered the rear too much and lightened the front - but these are supposedly Eibach Pro for the Cayman 987 specifically. I'm now emailing Eibach for advice, and I have booked my car in to have the caster adjustable brushes installed anyway.

I don't know if dropping the tyre pressures by a couple of psi will make any noticible difference in relation to you problem, but it's free so worth a try.

haha yeah I thought the same. I just hope Eibach have some ideas or if the extra caster makes up for it. Will update here when done.

Just been looking the car and the rear is looking rather low compared the front. Can someone confirm that the shorter of the springs go in the front? Wondering if they have been fitted the wrong way around I.e fronts on rear and vice versa. The fronts have a label saying "B/R" on each spring but I cannot see a label on the rear springs

Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... When you lowered the car and modified the camber and toe, you made 3 suspension changes at one time. That is a huge mistake. When making changes to a car's suspension, you should never change more than one thing at a time, that way you know whether or not that change is better or worse for the car. When you lowered the car, you altered several parts of the suspension geometry, one of which was to make the scrub radius more positive; which generally makes the steering less responsive.. When you made the camber more negative, you made the scrub radius more positive; which generally makes the steering less response. When you changed the toe from toe out to toe in, you changed how the car responses to steering input and also braking forces; makes the steering less responsive and increases braking distance.... By chance, are you running any wheel spacers? They also make the scrub radius more positive and causes the steering to be less responsive. Here are a couple youtube videos that will give you a primer on what you have done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUDMEd1bMZI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUcZ63unEyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFmUmVWBp0 There is no reason to run -1.5˚ camber on a street car, set it to between -.5˚ to 0˚. Set your front toe back to toe out and the rear toe to toe in. Then drive the car. At least at that point you will be back to stock alignment with only one change; the ride height and spring rate. Then you will know if the spring rate/ ride height combination is the problem or if the problem is the alignment settings. Before making any more suspension mods, peruse youtube. Youtube has a lot of good basic information that is priceless for someone like you that is just starting out. BTW, save your money, caster is not the problem and you don't need the adjustable mounts. That would be making another unnecessary change.

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... thanks some good info here, and I will go through it all. One thing to note is that everything except the camber is the same as before the new springs - I know this because I did a hunter alignment not long before the new springs. So all I have done is (a) install springs and (b) re-align BUT with some negative camber. Immediately after the spring install the steering was mega light hence I went and got alignment. No spacers and everything is stock except springs. So the only thing I can do to get closer to my previous setup is zero out the camber but from what I have read this should not make the steering light. I'm wondering if the installer knocked something or wrongly installed a part after the springs - car is still in garage to have more caster (via caster adjustable bushes) on Monday - sounds silly to have to do this but I'm interested to see what happens - it's actually quite fun learning this albeit NOT fun shelling out for every new alignment and labour. I'm doubtful that an extra +0.75 caster will correct my problem but I'm keen to see the result. I agree though caster cannot be the problem but I've already bought the bushes now anyway (£150 from powerflex). I should also note that the car does take bumps much nicer than stock springs - the suspension seems to re-settle a lot quicker now instead of being bouncy. Just need steering to be direct again. Will update next when when I have more positive caster.

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... Before my springs my front and rear toe were hovering around zero all round. Maybe this was wrong, I just went with the hunter alignment definition for the 987 that the garage loaded. So this part I find interesting and want to try it - but what should the toe settings really be exactly?

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... Hi ok well I'm within all those ranges except front camber is -1.15 left and -0.57 right. Increased caster this morning via caster adjustable bushes on LCA and it made no noticable difference - no suprises there tho. So now other than trying toe out on front and toe in on the rear as suggested above - I don't know how this could work but the next time I get an aligment done I will try it - I've spent so much on alignment fees now I am reluctant to do it right away. So it's a total mystery why my steering has gone very light. surely the nevative front camber can't be the reason? If so I will pay and have it changed again to get rid of the camber. so if it's not alignment and the sprigs are installed correctly then what on earth could it be? Nobody seems to know including Eibach who said their springs on this car should not make the steering light in any way. Anybody else have have any ideas what could cause this? I've run out of options other than get rid of the neg camber

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... 1) Why is your camber on the fronts so far apart? (-1.15 and -0.57) They should be much closer to the same. 2) Why is your rear camber greater than your front cambers? You should have more front camber than rear. 3) When you lowered the car, did you lower the front and rear equally. The Cayman is designed to have rake (rear higher than front). If you did not maintain the correct rake you would lighten the weight on the fronts. Caster 7.5-8.5 is fine. Toe 0-.08 is fine

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... Thanks for your points which make sense. In answer to them 1) & 2) good point, I was wondering about that so I'm going to see if the garage will re-adjust the camber for free since I never asked for it to be unbalanced either left/right or front/rear. 3) I used Eibach Pro Kit. When the garage install these does it give you an ability to "choose" how much you lower the front/rear? I was under the impression that the lowering amount is dictated by the springs. If not how do I adjust the lowering to raise the rear up? To me the car seems about level and if anything a bit lower on the rear! Before I lowered I did indeed have a fairly clear setup of the front being lower than the rear. I will measure the ground clearance front and rear later today and post the results - I'd be keen to see what others have as their ground clearance or if there is a proper way I should measure this? It does indeed feel like the car has lost weight on the front so this could well explain it. I doubt even when I correct the camber the steering will come back to normal.

Re: Get back to the basics of how to make suspension changes.... I've neen reading other threads and I undestand it's possible to tighten the springs while they are unloaded and this can maybe cause negative rake when the car is dropped to the ground due to pretentioning of the springs. What do you think? Could I somehow loosen and re-tighten whatever bolts on the rear to release and compression in the rear springs? Could I just do this on the ground??