Build vs buy, which will make me less poor? - 986 Forum - The Community for Porsche Boxster & Cayman Owners

Hey guys, I've gotten the green light from the Minister of Finance to purchase a 986 Boxster. There are a few requirements she has imposed on the purchase, most notably it must be an automatic, but the search is officially on. Here's the issue. The car that gave me the green light was not only outside of our budget (which is around $12k) but was basically a perfect example of a 986. 75k miles, 1 owner, lots of records, great condition, everything you could ask for. The cars in my area that are under $12k are in rough shape, and range from $6k-$7.5k with varying degrees of neglect. Mileage ranges from 100k-150k, paint could use some work, suspension creaks, tops either are slow or completely missing the motors, the list goes on. I've wanted a Boxster for a long time now, and I was always planning on doing my own maintenance. I know the general school of thought is to buy the best possible example of a car that you can afford, but what about a car that needs some work to get a deal? Let's say I buy a car for $6k that needs $6k in parts plus my own labor in order to get it to a condition I would find acceptable. Assuming I have the time and inclination to do that work, is that a reasonable track to wander down? The reason I am going down this thought experiment is because I recently got back a PPI on a car at the top of our budget that ended up needing a lot more work than we wanted to deal with at that price point. But, if the car were half the price it would have made sense, especially if I could do most of the work myself. I kind of assume any Boxster at this price point will need work, so why not go for the most affordable car and try to price the work into the theoretical total price? Am I setting myself up for a lot of headaches and an empty wallet or is there some logic to this train of thought?

It depends. If you can do your own maintenance, that will make a 986 much more affordable. Changing a water pump or AOS can cost about $150 to $250 for parts and a few hours on a weekend or either can cost around $1,000 at a shop. That said, some people have taken on some major repairs and found that it was beyond their capability or ruined a good engine. With 986s being 20+ years old at this point, buy the best maintained one that you can afford. How well it has been cared for is more important that how many miles it has on it. Keep having PPIs done on cars you are serious about. Consider a few flaws that you are willing to accept: Worn brake pads and rotors are usually a fairly easy thing to replace. Worn out or old tires give you the opportunity to get the tires of your choice. A complete professional paint job can cost over $5,000, but a bumper re-spray or some PDR could be under $500 (in my locality).

Quotes source post: 655939

Totally logical in my opinion. I've bought 3 Boxsters. Never had a PPI done. The first one, a 2000 base, I had a 10 minute road test and bought it for $6500 CAN. I have put a lot of time into it plus about $3000 in parts and another $1000 in maintenance. I now runs great and is a joy to drive. The second one, another 2000 base, supposedly had an overheating problem and had been sitting for 2 years. It wasn't licensed so I could not even drive it. I got it running and bought it for $5000, put a lot of time and about $1300 in parts into it and sold it to a friend for a slight profit (I calculated my labor as a learning experience). The third one, a 2000 S, was a roller with a seized engine, but the seller told me that "it didn't need anything (other than the engine)". Ya, right. I paid $6000, (put a lot of time and) about $1800 for repairs and maintenance on the car and $5400 for a used engine and necessary maintenance on the engine. A little over $13000 all in, which is a bit more than I had planned on. But it is an S with the SportDesign package interior, which includes Sports seats. None of these cars had any documentation with them. I think I was a bit lucky but Boxsters are tough little cars as long as they get a minimum of attention. I have a lot of respect for 78F350's opinions, he may be from Oklahoma, but as far as Boxsters are concerned I think that I'm more of a cowboy than he is

Quotes source post: 655954

The advice I give is based on many other people's experience that I've followed along with. Here's a couple long stories that a buyer might learn from: Running a cheap Boxster, what could possibly go wrong? 2002 Boxster S - This is gonna hurt. Personally I have never had a PPI done or paid more than $5,000 for any of the twenty or so 986s I've bought. I pay cash and enjoy taking the risk. I would not advise a stranger to do what I have done. 'Flood Car" before I bought it: After spending some time on it:

Quotes source post: 655957

Do you have a write-up I can read on this car? Doing some light off-roading is (probably) in my boxster's future (mostly forest access roads and the like) and I'd love to learn more about what does and doesn't work.

Quotes source post: 655957

OK, I apologize, I am NOT more of a cowboy than you and my cowboy hat is off to you. I did not read through all of your links, in what I read I was struck by the comments of AAZCD... that guy knows his stuff. Seriously, my comments were not meant as advice, rather as my experience as related to the question of buying a "questionable" Boxster. The way I look at it buying a 986 is like buying stocks or crypto currency, consider the possibility that the money is lost... and if it isn't so much the better!

Quotes source post: 655962

The info for that car is spread around a bit. It has evolved quite a lot over the years. If I have a quiet night at work tonight or tomorrow, I'll post some of the details. Pics https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjAButx I did a quick search of the Denver area and came up with this one that has some obvious minor issues. Might be worth looking into and making a below asking price offer: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/201345082892763/? and if I was local I'd try a $2k offer on this considering parts value: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/3037764579865666/? *Parting out a 986 can take a lot of time and effort, but if you need parts for yourself a parts car is a great option.

Quotes source post: 655963

No apology necessary, I enjoy following along with your work on the 2000 S project. I just wanted to emphasize that what we do might be inappropriate for for the average first-time 986 buyer. That AAZCD guy has obviously learned from experiencing a lot of mistakes.

Quotes source post: 655965

I've seen this one and it is my front-runner of "fix it up" options. Here is the list of things that I took note of when I took a look. Creaking suspension Strange noise on startup Both side mirror motors do not work The windshield is cracked and needs replacing One of the headlight sprayers is missing The convertible motor is slow and sounds tired. May need replacing soon The front bumper seems misaligned The plastic undertray on the front bumper is partially disconnected and scrapes on the ground occasionally, particularly when reversing The rear bumper is cracked The driver's seat is torn and needs repair or replacing The clear coat is peeling, there are hail dents and lots of scratches and scrapes. Just about every panel has some kind of damage The battery was disconnected when we arrived, no idea what that means Bottle of antifreeze in the trunk The plastic trim by the windshield has hail damage and needs replacing The clear coat is peeling on all four wheels All of the Porsche crest center caps are damaged in some way Most of the lug nuts are rusty Rubber gaskets around headlights look dry-rotted Two tire brands: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season and Cooper RS3-G1, all from 2021 And I'm probably missing other stuff. When I drove it the car seemed fine, but I remember either the gas or brake had a lot of dead space at the beginning. It shifted through all the gears fine and seemed to drive well. I neglected to test the wipers and turn signals, and probably a few other things. There are no reliable records of any kind of service done. Also, the seat was a massive pain to adjust. With the exception of the strange startup noise and windshield, these mostly sound like things I could theoretically take care of myself or just live with. Safelight will install a new windshield for $520, but the strange startup noise is what is giving me pause. It could be nothing, or it could be a serious concern. The bodywork makes it a 20-foot car at best and it's probably more money to get all of that repaired than the car would be worth with half the miles. Honestly, this is the car that I'm debating making an offer on, I'm just not sure what kind of an offer would make it worth all of the known and unknown work. Beyond that, it just seems like a lot of little things and even though I feel like I've done a decent job of searching for all the replacement parts I would need from eBay, I'm sure I'm forgetting things, and the dollar signs are quickly adding up. I already own the book "101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster" and between that, the Youtube channel "Help Me DIY", and this forum it's giving me confidence that any problem I might encounter I will at least have a guide to get me through, but this would still be my first project car and it's intimidating. I'd like to think that I'm reasonably mechanically minded, but I lack experience doing anything beyond oil changes, air filters, and swapping between winter and summer tires. I'd love to believe that I can tackle anything that gets thrown at me, but I also want to be realistic with my abilities. Tutorials are one thing, but they are no substitution for experience. So yeah, hope that wall of text didn't put you to sleep, lol.

Quotes source post: 655970

That is quite a list! On the positive side they are things that are relatively simple to fix. And you can drive and enjoy the car while fixing it, with help from the forums and youtube. Normally I am not put off by things that are purely appearance, but even I am struck by all the esthetic issues, that is not work that I enjoy... and I am not very good at it... but that's just me. If you intend to do your own work you need tools and a place to work, most of the things on your list can be done in a driveway. Anything more complex may need a garage, do you have one or access to one for short (or medium or long, depending) periods of time? Include some money in your budget for tools beyond the standard ones or see if you can beg, borrow, rent or steal them locally. I have accumulated a lot tools. Too bad you are so far away, I have decided to sell my 2000 base Boxster which I have done a lot of work on and which has the maintenance up to date. It is the first Boxster that I bought, as mentioned in my first post.

Quotes source post: 655981

I've got a garage and some basic hand tools already. Jack, jack stands, ramps, socket set, stuff like that. I'm also within walking distance of two auto parts stores that offer free tool rentals as well so I have some options there. Here are all the photos I took of the car. https://imgur.com/a/BdWG7Ih

Quotes source post: 655982

Sounds like you are in a position to take on most of the necessary repairs. I hadn't noticed that it was an S... that makes it much more interesting. Here is my take on your list. Should be looked into and discussed before buying The battery was disconnected when we arrived, no idea what that means Strange noise on startup The windshield is cracked and needs replacing Bottle of antifreeze in the trunk (could be nothing, I keep oil and antifreeze in the trunk just in case) Future projects Creaking suspension (does it clunk on bumps? My base does which I take as its way of saying "do some maintenance". I had it aligned and the tech didn't see anything untoward.) Can be lived with Two tire brands: Michelin Pilot Sport All Season and Cooper RS3-G1, all from 2021 (The good news is that the tires are good. I have often run with different tires front and back, but given my little old man driving habits that doesn't cause any problems. Your use may be different.) Both side mirror motors do not work (adjust manually) One of the headlight sprayers is missing (buy some paper towels and windex The convertible motor is slow and sounds tired. May need replacing soon (is it slower than other Boxsters? May be normal and converting it to manual is free and isn't much of a hassle) The front bumper seems misaligned (may be misinstalled, there are a bunch slots and such that have to be properly assembled. Or could be the result of broken mounting pieces.) The plastic undertray on the front bumper is partially disconnected and scrapes on the ground occasionally, particularly when reversing (I think all Boxsters have broken undertrays... just to varying degrees. Remove them and put them back after you get around to fixing them.) The rear bumper is cracked (not that difficult to repair... I used fiberglass on my front bumper cover (and undertrays)) The driver's seat is torn and needs repair or replacing (put seat covers on till you have the time and/or money) Appearance... how important is this to you? Can be taken care of over time and will not affect the performance on the windy bits of road. The clear coat is peeling, there are hail dents and lots of scratches and scrapes. Just about every panel has some kind of damage The plastic trim by the windshield has hail damage and needs replacing The clear coat is peeling on all four wheels All of the Porsche crest center caps are damaged in some way Most of the lug nuts are rusty Rubber gaskets around headlights look dry-rotted I hope some other forum members will chime in with their opinions (although having the opinions of 78F350 and I is a great start... well having 78F350's opinion is a great start...).

Quotes source post: 655984

I really appreciate the perspective. I think a concern I have in the back of my mind with the laundry list of issues is if they are an indication of the mechanical state of the car. I feel like a PPI, even for a pretty cheap car, might not be a bad idea just to make sure I'm not walking onto a landmine of a car. EDIT: re the top moving slowly, it's compared to other cars I've driven. I hadn't considered converting it to a manual operation, though one of the cars I looked at did have those motors removed. It seemed to scratch up the paint and gaskets in a not-so-great way so I'm a bit hesitant to go that route.

Your review and elgyqc's summary are great. Questions: What does your wife think about that car? You can drive it pretty much as-is, but it is going to take either a lot of time or a lot of money to make it as nice as a $12K car. Is she going to be on board with that? Will she be okay with it as-is for a while? The start up noise; Is it a squeal from the starter (starter lube/rebuild)? Electric motor sound like a vacuum cleaner (SAI blower)? Tapping/rattle sound (could be acceptable or a major concern)? Before paying for a PPI (if you are serious about the car) can you remove the oil filter and get a look for dirt/debris? It can be unscrewed with a tool and examined without draining the oil. *See the 101 Projects book or this article: https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Boxster_Tech/02-BASICS-Oil_Change/02-BASICS-Oil_Change.htm The front bumper and frunk lid may be simply installed poorly or it could have had an accident. I'd want a better look at that or detail it in the PPI. Me? I would make a low cash offer and throw some parts at it that I already have on the shelf. If I wanted some cash back from it, I'd sell the Litronic headlights and put a used set of Halogens in and delete the headlight washers. The headlight washers on most of these cars I've seen are like that or have already been replaced. Bad design.

Quotes source post: 655988

You don't have too remove the transmission motors to go manual. Disconnect a few parts, you're good to go. Manually I operate my top in half the time the motor takes. I'll get around to correcting it, but I'm in no hurry.

There's been so much good advice here already, and I don't really have much to add.... but that's never stopped me before. In truth, I just read the thread about the forum being dead and all the reasons proposed as being responsible for its demise. I find I'm moved to participate, rather than skim. So my $0.02, whittled down to a few words as I can, since I'm typing on my phone; Forget the PPI. Your awareness (as illustrated by your list) is at a pretty high level. Depending on the individual mechanic, a PPI will either confirm what you already know or nitpick the car to its ever lasting death. Neither are useful. Here's my take: unless you are prepared to do even something major as a DIY, you shouldn't be buying a >20 yr-old car. It sounds to me like you're up for it, and recognize the work you'll need to put into it. (Kudos) Mechanical items are all relatively easy, and comparatively inexpensive. Paint and body on the other hand, tend to be more expensive, unless it's your specialty. So find a car that (mostly) looks the way you want it to. Minor work is fine. But you'd better love the color. The only mechanical item on your list that gives me pause is the noise at start-up. Here's what I would do: as 78F350 said, low cash offer. But include in negotiation that you'll leave a good faith deposit while you await the expedited results from Blackstone labs, for the analysis on the oil you're going to send them. That'll tell you if the problem is interior to the motor. Otherwise, buy the car that largely LOOKS how you want it to. I've bought 78 cars/ trucks in my day. From '34 chevy's to 2013 Maseratis to a 2008 and a 2016 Ferrari, including not a single PPI. Only really been disappointed once. Look each car over the best you can, then pull the trigger. Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

As Maytag mentions below, the start up sound is the only worrysome in my opinion. Is the noice like rattle or like screech or something else? - if like a rattle, the chains / tensioners / chain ramps are a good candidate to cause this: engine out and change the parts. Fine to do as a DYI job and don't have to split the crank case nor take the heads off. - if like scheech, then good candidate is that the starter motor pendix wheel return is not workign well: very easy DYI to change the starter motor OR take the starter out, open it, clean and relube and reinstall. I have done both above on my 2001 Boxster and I believe that you can as well. Here's a good video of the starter noice and how to fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ9qnnf2kWU&t=19s

Quotes source post: 655939

I picked up my 2000 986 base for $5000 from Craigslist. I was the first caller (and then the seller was flooded with calls). I wasted no time getting over there to take a look at it.The seller was an older gentleman who found getting in and out more and more difficult. It had 155,000 miles on the clock, but it was the seller's baby, and he was meticulous about its care, substantiated by a thick folder containing all maintenance receipts. So I wasn't put off by the mileage. Everything functioned on the car and it ran and drove like a new one. The Arctic Silver paint, convertible top, and interior were in decent shape. I pounced on the deal like a pit bull on a butt steak, acing a horde of other buyers. I figured I'd have to deal with various random issues as they arose. I do all my own maintenance on my cars. I've rebuilt engines, so I'm no stranger to wrenching on cars. Here's what I've done to my bargain 986 so far: 1. Replaced water pump, $113 2. Replaced regeneration valve, $47 3. Replaced heater core, $109 (not OEM, but identical) 4. Flushed coolant system and replaced coolant, $68 (genuine Porsche brand, because... well, just because) 5. Changed oil with Mobil 1, Bosch filter, magnetic drain plug, $74 6. Replaced windshield wipers, Bosch: $34 7. Replaced Toyo tires with a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 Plus, $805 (including mounting and balancing, which I left to Discount Tires) If Porsche Beaverton had taken care of everything above, I would now have only one arm and one leg left. We're talking thousands in parts and labor. Doing my own wrenching is the only way I can justify having a car like this. Besides, most of the time it's enjoyable. So I encourage you to seek out a well-maintained 986 and then do your own maintenance on it. If you decide to go that route, the service manual is a must. Also, YouTube is indispensable, loaded with how-tos. Good luck!

Lonewolfgal makes an excellent and important point; mileage doesn't mean as much on these cars as maintenence does. I'd go even so far as to say that a well- maintained car with 150k miles is far superior to a poorly maintained one with 40k miles. And avoid cars that haven't been regularly used. A car sitting for 5 years ages a lifetime. Worst money pit you could buy. Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

There is so much valuable advice in this thread, thank you all so very much. I shared this thread with my partner and she commented that everyone here has been super nice and constructive so hats off to the 986 community. It seems like there are two primary schools of thought being presented here, but with some overlap. From where I stand the overlap seems to be that the car needs to have been used regularly and recently, and more maintenance is always better. But that seems to be where the paths diverge. On one side, I see people pulling me towards being patient and waiting to a prime example of a Boxster to show up that basically maxes out my budget. Essentially going down the path of "buy the best example you can afford" On the other side, I'm hearing suggestions that I just kind of lowball people and roll the dice, so long as there is nothing obviously outside of my capability. I'll call these two camps Best Example and poobox Casino moving forward. Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the Best Example camp: 78F350 and LoneWolfGal seem to be presenting arguments for buying the best car I can find. Suggesting PPIs, service histories, and a good record of maintenance and regular use. Here is a quick summary of those in favor of the poobox Casino: elgyqc, maytag, and 78F350 seem to be arguing that buying these 20+ year old sports cars is inherently a gamble, particularly at my specified price point, and that I should embrace the project car nature of where I'm shopping and try to get something for as low a cost as possible so I have more money leftover to repair what needs repairing, though still being mindful of buying a project within my mechanical capabilities. The eagle eyed among you will notice that 78F350 is in both camps, this is mostly because he seems to give advise by the adage of "do as I say, not as I do" because by the looks of it, they only buy cars in the poobox Casino category. Does anyone have any objections to how I've tallied their votes?