some thoughts about the autobahn

i just returned from a 25 day trip to germany, austria and switzerland including 3800 km driving the new mercedes e class. max speed i saw was 220 kph--about 130 mph. the average speed on long trips was only 110 kph because the highways are even more congested than here in maryland--more like ny or conn. the average driver in germany is much more skilled than here. they almost never pass on the right. why can't we have this same rule in the u.s.? it makes freeway driving much safer! the road surfaces are nearly flawless but the road maintenance is so frequent that it add much to congestion. overall, i was disappointed that our average speeds were nearly identical to those in the u.s. now if only we could adopt better driver training programs!

At 130 + on the autobahn mostly what passed us was motorcycles. No one has to pass on the right becuase you get tickets for not yeilding to over-taking traffic. But in truth we enjoyed the open air rides through the mountains and country side a lot more than the autobahn speeds. But I think we were luckier than you, our autobahn speeds probably averaged 100 MPH+ overall. We were there in late May of 2001.

will i very much agree that the the countryside and mountain drives were much more fun than the autobahn but even rural highways were much more crowded than what i am accustomed to. the scenery and the people were wonderful {except in switzerland-where only the scenery was pleasant!) the overall skill of the driving public is impressive compared to our fat happy country of cell phone users and cup holders. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Just realized. August is vacation month in all of Europe. Got a tour of the Jaguar plant in August of 00, nobody but maintenance folks around, got to go everywhere, see everything. Couldn't figure out why you ran into crowds, heavy traffic, on rural byways.

Lane discipline in the US doesn't exist, sadly. If it did, "aggressive driving" (the media's new favorite anti-driving term) -- slicing in and out of traffic, etc., would virtually disappear since the cause of it would virtually disappear.

[quote]Originally posted by ignacio: <strong> the scenery and the people were wonderful {except in switzerland-where only the scenery was pleasant!) </strong><hr></blockquote> Sorry to hear that! what happen!

andreas i regret to report that the swiss people that we met (unlike the germans or austrians) were uniformly curt, unpleasant and unhelpful. the fact that the prices were uniformly twice as high made for an even worse impression. even the border guards were curt and unpleasant. we stayed at the park hotel vitznau near lucerne. the staff was adequate but the food was awful even though the fixed price dinner was 90 sfr/person without wine. i was also outraged by the prices of the government boats on lake lucerne. to me the whole country appeared like one huge tourist trap. the scenery was beautiful but on balance i never intend to return.

Ignacio, Sorry again..i understand you. When i'm tourist i try to avoid those big tourist places. <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

andreas thanks for your understanding. i would consider going back to switzerland with the porsche travel club--all prepaid-- your mountain roads were magnificent! why weren't the people as friendly as you are? they certainly appear to live well enough <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

You obviously never encountered us Swiss Italians in the South of Switzerland. We are very friendly. (or Swiss French for that matter, huh Bilstein?)

There is one thing in Switzerland that is cheap and that is the petrol. They have lower prices than any of their neighbours. That's about it. S.

[quote]Originally posted by 993RS: <strong>You obviously never encountered us Swiss Italians in the South of Switzerland. We are very friendly. (or Swiss French for that matter, huh Bilstein?)</strong><hr></blockquote> Yeaph! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Ignacio (and others!), next time you plan to come to Switzerland, just let us know! I'd be glad to meet you and show you some less crowded/expensive/unfriendly places. And I'm pretty sure Phil and Andreas would be happy to join for some driving in the Alps!... <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" /> Greetings, --Pierre

Bilstein is right! On another thread I said that we have just got back after an exhilarating 19 day trip round France, Switzerland and Italy. 3,381 glorious trouble-free miles. And still grinning. Everything Judy and I expected, and more. There were many great driving roads especially round Montreux where we stayed for 2 nights and on a circuit taking in Annecy and Mont Blanc (okay I know thats partly France) but one drive stands out. Anyone who gets the chance should experience the S.48 to the west of Cortina d'Ampezzo. 40 hairpins up to the top of the pass and then 40 down the other side trying to keep up with the bikers! And you shouldn't compare prices when you are on vacation - it can ruin everything. The test is did you enjoy spending the money? Sometimes you can enjoy spending �100 on a meal or feel ripped-off spending �2 on a sandwich. Having said that, if you are British, all other European prices look cheap! Biggest bonus: no roadworks and hardly any police. First roadworks we encountered was coming out of the Eurotunnel terminal when we came home! Only one radar trap spotted the whole trip (in France) and the speeds I achieved on the few occassions we used autoroutes were equivalent to how I'd drive on an autobahn.

I just like the scenery in Switzerland. I took a trip there a couple of years ago from Bonn in Germany to Geneva and I enjoyed driving in Switzerland much more then the autobahn. Next year I'm thinking of shipping my targa to France instead of renting cars. Far too expensive in Europe

To the swiss folks out here - for what it's worth, I've always loved Switzerland - the land and especially the people. The one thing I vow to do next time I visit however is to take the train. Driving along some of those very narrow mountain roads in a rented Pugeo Megan was something else - five years later and my knuckles are still white!

pierre thanks for your kind offer. i hope to take you up on it sometime. swiss roads were beautiful as long as you didn't stop to ask directions. i realize that italian and french swiss are friendlier but the contrast between bavarians and german swiss was dramatic and very unpleasant. regarding prices--its impossible not to compare bavaria and the tyrol to prices just over the border for similiar services and accommodations. i like spending money but i hate feeling cheated especially by people who do their best to be unpleasant. <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />

Since I grew up in Germany and also received my driving instructions there, I can tell you that we actually get "instructed" on how to drive properly. I was shocked when I came to the US to find that getting a drivers license was virtualy a non-event. In Germany, aside from months of theoretical class room training, I had to demonstrate my ability to drive on fast autobahnen, country roads, city driving and yes, parallel parking I firmly believe that this education made me a very secure drive with not a single accident on my record. Of course, we Germans also do tend to "focus" on driving, and not sipping coffee, talking on the phone or puttin on makup. elfer

I think elpher hit the nail on the head (as to the reason average driver ability is higher)...ie it's training and the respect for what having a license means. Take any sytem where it costs money, time, and effort, to earn the "privilege" of being able to drive.......compare that to the U.S. where driving is more of a "right" (easily attained, seldom revoked...even at 85, yrs not MPH)....and that's pretty much what ya get.....GreggT

993RS, I�ve been to Lugano at the Splendide Royal and its not only a beautiful region, but you have the best of both worlds: clean and organised like the swiss and the friendly-sociable italian attitude The only bad part is that speed limits are enforced much more than I would like or used too

elpher our u.s. driver's ed is abysmal <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> perhaps reflecting most parent's desires to be rid of their transportation duties. at my house the teenagers had to drive 2000mi with me as copilot before heading out alone. they did not mind because it was fun for both of us. they are all now amazed how badly their friends drive! i'm not

Thanks Carlos, Yes, speed limits are enforced pretty much down here, especially in town, which I find OK. I know where the fixed traps are (there is an Internet link for those) and I have a legal pager which provides me information on mobile traps. Haven't had a speeding ticket in years. Lugano is a beautiful place to visit, if any of you guys happen to pass through, let me know. Here is a view on Lugano from my living room...

Hey Carlos, It seems you well know the kind of radars around Europe. what about Switzerland? I read somewhere that they have unfortunately have the most sophisticated speed traps existant at the moment.. have you tried your radar detector here? it works? Phil , can you send me please the URL fot those speed traps? ..hey nice view you have!.. I did a lot of mountain biking around, just great!. Pierre ,Phil ready for one beer <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> !?

When I visited Germany, I noticed drivers were much more aware of faster cars behind them and would pull over to the left to let the faster car by. Until U.S. drivers start doing that and stop driving 55 mph on the left lane of a 2 lane highway, I'm still passing on the right...

ckl i understand--what other choice do we have? <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />