Which to buy help please - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

o and please do not say look at a boxster I test drove one and hated it, It was just like driving a golf. Yes it does every thing well but i was so board after 5 minutes i said to the dealer can i head back now. It was to slow, felt heavy, common, the dealer said 95% of driver's are women and imo you will always want a 911 in the end. its like buying a 318 bmw and not a 330i lol. Also i have never seen one on a track day. Most i have seen have 18" wheels which ruin the handling and when i asked about sports suspension that blank look said it all. And why spec up a boxster s to 42k when you can buy the cars i have listed. I was very disappointed as the boxster was going to be my next car (until i drove it) who buys these cars, rich x TT drivers?? lol. Sorry to offend Boxster owners but i just do not get them. phew thats that off my cheast :-)

Well just say that a Boxster isn't to your taste, rather than launching off into a schoolboy attack on everyone who owns one. I like neither the clio or the elise, but it doesn't make you a twat in my eyes.

quote "but it doesn't make you a twat in my eyes" hehe does that mean YOU are saying boxster drivers are tw4ts? thats not nice now is it. I just said i dont get who buys them !!!! I am flame proof as sitting here in nomex :-p

I would look into the '99 996 ,,probably the best suited.When I say look into check history,rear main seal etc.. Altrnatively I would check a late 993 C2 or C4 narrow body. My reasons for not preferring the C2 S...it has the same engine & brakes as regular C2 but is heavier due to the Turbo body..This results in it not performimg quite so well and is actually more skittish in the handling department than a base C2. The C4S has the benefit of Turbo brakes,suspension and of course 4wd,,it is a completlely different animal to the C2 S. If you are a huge fan of Jennifer Lopez and insist on that look from the rear in your Pork..just disregard anything i have written above and go with the C2 S. Aplogies to any C2 S owners,but the above is why i like looking at one and never bought an example I looked at.

Far from it. My father drives one, and we're getting fed up to the backest of the back teeth with it (and him) getting slagged by other people. Sorry i don't have anything constructive to add to the thread.

For 6-7 track days a year its got to be the 964RS but for 18k a yr on the road it woudlnt be my 1st choice! yes you can make the ride less bone shaking but then you will be compramising the fantastic track manners. Your £37K budget will buy you one hell of a nice 964RS with enough left over to see you into a nice 968CS for the road miles or look hard and be slighly more flexible with the budget & consider a 993RS its more supple than a 964RS on the road but just as effective on track and a fair bit more forgiving too, which unless you are Derek Bell you may find useful when you have over cooked your corner speed trying to keep up with those pesky Caterfields at a twisty track

David, i think we ' ve allready spoken on the Elise bbs.... (am surprised to see you here after all the mods you' ve done to your Liz!). I used to own a few Elises (2 s1' s & 1 s2)... I do not know which Boxster you test-drove. I only drove the Box S & felt it was fantastically well balanced car. A bit like an Elise S2 but better built, better engine &... heavier. Made me feel confident immediatly. (i test drove it 'hard' on back roads in the South of France close to Nice). Never drove a standard Boxster though. If you felt the Box felt like a Golf, you may not like the 996 at all! i drove a 996 c2 as well & was very very disapointed. It felt so big. Don' t think you will take it for a spin around the house & come back with a grin (like with a Liz...). My drive drives a Range Rover & it felt like one. (all imo). The 964rs is very noisy, uncomfortable. Most of the people i know who own them take them to track days on a trailer as driving them on the road is none sens (a regular 964 c2 or c4 is much better). If you put loads of miles on them, they depreciate quite a lot (unlike regular 964 c2/c4's). Your best bet must be a 993 c2. I drove it & god... i loved it. Much more of a driver' s car than a 996. The engine note is really there, you 'feel' the car. Perhaps you may want to consider a regular 964 c2 with sport suspension, RS wheels & teardrops mirrors. There a lots of them with low miles well below £20k. This would surely be a better choice for your profile than a 964rs. All the above is 'imho' & i do not intend to hurt or insult anyone. As far as i am concerned my choice is made: Box S! Regards, Eric. PS: David if the one you drove was a 2.5 / 2.7, go & drive a 'S' you may change your opinion. There are a few around the £30k mark in the mags.

It was an 3.2s. IT did every thing ok and i could not fault it. It was just not what i had in mind and was very sorry i felt that way about it. as it was top of the list. It just felt dead to drive and the steering wheel was big and high up.

993 is much more of a drivers car than a 996 ????????? you can jump to some strange conclusions driving once round the block! the above comment is assuming it wasn't a 993RS!! >> Edited by clubsport on Sunday 18th May 21:03

why is this lots of money ? www.autofarm.co.uk/car.php3/SB420.html and how much are 933 rs then i have never seen one. TO many models now how can i choose !!!!!

40K for a 964RS I know it's RHD, is fitted with Motec and has low miles, but I would of thought 35ish max would nearer the mark. Still shouldn't complain! My RS is the first car I've owned with is actually going UP in value, year on year.

A 964 RS is no more of a noisy uncomfortable car to live with on the road than an Elise. The right money for an rhd seems to fluctuate from as little as £29k to the Automfarm type price of £40k...Autofarm are not the cheapest in the world though.... A 993 is a totally different "drive" to a 996, it feels a lot lighter and of course more like a "classic" 911 to drive. A 996 is a superbly capable car but the dna has been diluted somewhat. If you've tracked the Elise, a 911 is going to feel very different, more roll, more sense of weight... I think that the best of both worlds can be had with a 993 RS - a little less compromised for the road than a 964 but still good on track. But I'm not sure you'll get one in rhd for sub £40k ALL IMHO of course....

The cheapest heavily tracked rhd 993RS I have seen in the last 18 months was £45k....The road cars in rhd tend to be low £50's to start.....The better lhd cars are now £40k.

The obvious answer to Mr D's question has already been suggested... the 993RS. This has the best points of all the cars mentioned. Better ride than the 964RS and arguably more fun than the other non-RS cars mentioned. Also, may I point out a few facts about the 964RS... 1) It is difficult to live with compared to a standard Porsche, but I used to commute in mine and it is do-able. It is as similar to live with as a Caterham or an Elise that David is already used to... If you love cars and driving, it is no big hardship - just avoid the most vicious speed humps on your route. 2) They are not that noisy. Mine sounded as quiet a 993C2 so I got a sports exhaust to liberate some more sound. They also sound fantastic when you can hear them. 3) They don't depreciate compared to other Porsches, and condition not mileage is the main factor. Even the abused ones with over 100k on the clock fetch high teens minimum. 4) You can get a LHD 993RS for 37k if you look carefully, ask nicely and haggle hard. I know of one recently being picked up for 35k. Cheers Dom >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Monday 19th May 11:11

You might need to do a bit more analysis on this. If you are restricted to 1 car and it must be a 911 of some type, and 37k is the max....then 993C2 or 996C2 will do the everyday 18k miles a year and are good enough cars to make trackdays rewarding. If however you can get back to 2 cars and one must be a 911 , same budget.....then bring on a LHD 964RS and expect to pay 26 to 32k leaving enough for a decent daily drive vehicle. I went from BMW 3 series to a 993C2 to an early 996C2 ( R reg). The 996 is a great car, but if you hate the boxster you might not be up for it. Last year I got a 964RS (lhd) as a second car . Be warned, you will start to fit racing pads (squeaaallll) and agonise over set-up and tyre choices and become addicted to trackdays

Agree 964RS for track use and abuse Something else for commuting. Also, most 964RS drivers I know don't trailer their car to the track but drive it there. That's part of the appeal and what makes the car so special.

David, yes of course... coming from the Liz world... the 964 rs will feel like a 'limo' for you.. :-) The 993rs is obviously the nice choice but they are very expensive. My point about the Box S was that after the Liz i could hardly conceived a car without a roof that goes off! Regarding my comments about 993 & 996, i was talking about non-rs & non-gt3 cars of course as i have never driven either. Waiting for Dom to take me for a spin in his Red-Baron when he' s got it back! :-) David, pls let us know what you decide to go for! Eric.

OK thanks for your replies. I have chosen :-) I would love a 993 RS but as i say 40k so thats a go go. The 964 rs is very nice but as you say a every day not it is not and i do not want to run such a nice car into the ground. So, here is my choice which was not on my list :-) A 933 C4S with a s/s exhaust/induction kit and remap. Just need to find a A1 one now :-) Thanks again David

Sod it. Why not just get the 993 Turbo 4? They are in your price range, believe it or not... LHD one for 35k... I know it seems like I plug Joel at RSJ, but he seems to always have a few in: www.rsjsportscars.co.uk They are a wolf in wolf's clothing, unlike the C4S. The C2S doesn't even have half the extras the C4S has (big reds, 4WD etc.) but it pretty - especially in Vesuvius. But a bit overpriced as it was the run out model with dinky ali bits in the cockpit and a 'ltd edition'. The C4S is a fine choice, but the Turbo 4 is finer!!! Cheers Domster

www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_993_turbo.htm Tell me this isn't the manifestation of temptation itself...

Pah ! Puny, it's not even got the power kit Twin Turbo 4WD 430Bhp Jamie

Dom.............HOW DARE YOU!...THAT IS FANTASTIC, TEMPTATION OR WHAT!! Steve

I've got a mate who's selling his 933 Turbo4, but he wants over £40K for it as it's RHD and mint. He's selling it 'cos he wants to buy a Honda NSX - fine auto that that most certainly is I still couldn't see why he'd want to do such a thing ! Heresy if you ask me ! Jamie

There is NO answer to that,Jamie....he must be mad IMHO! Steve

Yuk. A Honda NSX is only marginally more exciting than a Honda Civic. All anyone needs to know about NSX's is that Elton John bought one.

Well yes a sub 10 second machine would be nice but i am not driving a lhd car for my main car as you cannot overtake anything. So a 933 C4S with aero kit it will have to be. I read that you can get 20bhp+ with the exhaust/induction and remap. And then it will not only look the part but sound the part too.

That is a very tasty vehicle indeed. I wonder if the wife fancies changing alleigance and coming over to the dark side.

With 408bhp you can overtake plenty... The LHD/RHD debate has been raging for years, but as someone who has owned both kinds of Porsche, I can say that LHD isn't that bad to live with (even when overtaking) and even has a few advantages. Aha. Looks liek you have made up your mind... Congrats. Choosing the model is half the battle! A mate of mine bought verysideways nice LHD C4S the other day for 27k. Not sure how much they are in RHD. With all the right bits on it, you may get 295-300, but I doubt you will see any more (certainly not 315). I think you reach the limit of the injectors or something. I may be wrong. It will certainly sound much nicer.

Full exhaust with sports cats & a re-map should see you pip the 300bhp barrier with ease on the varioram engines, with only a whisker less from non varios or 964's on hotfilm.

regarding : www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_993_turbo.htm ... i would not worry too much about LHD... (am French living in London & drive only LHD cars. Even some english mates find it easier to drive: gearshift right hand). My concern would be more: 'Amaranth with flamenco leather'.... Fancy a yellow-ish Hawaian shirt to drive this motor.. :-)) ...tastes & colors... Eric.

mm www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/vehicles/porsche_993_turbo_02.htm i bet he will take 40k ;-)

David, yes that' s the one! You know you want it: right car, right color. Have you put the Liz & the Clio for sale?

That is tempting - what are the running costs like on a 993 turbo of that kind of vintage ?

If Sir needs to ask,Sir cannot afford it... Evo ran one as a long term test car,all detailed in there... Servising is cheaper than 965 if that helps,,,all will be fine until something goes wrong,there are probs with early version gear boxes,beefed up from '97..various top end problems can occurr and of course you have 2 turbos. Looking into potential running costs have put me off of buying one in the past. It is not the car you spend all your money on,,if you spend £40k I would keep £5k back just in case. Their are a couple of top guys on here who own them,,they have huge tuning potential BTW.

The main problem with the Evo long term 993tt was simply that it was a supercar, and no supercar is cheap to run. It never put a foot wrong, never broke down, just needed normal servicing, pads, disks, tracking, tyres, but when you have big red brakes you can't go to Halfords and put some Mini discs onto the hub. It cost them about 4k to run it for the year, if I remember - without anything going pop and without petrol or depreciationbeing considered. I suppose this is one reason why the normally aspirated 993RS and C4S have some popularity - turbo engines are generally more costly to maintain and suffer from more maintenance issues because of their increased complication.

Hey 911s have never been cheap to own or run if something goes wrong...but they don't break the bank when they're running just fine...at the £30k mark a 993 Turbo in lhd form has got to give you the biggest (reliable) bang for your bucks - in excess of 175 mph with ease and in perfect comfort...'nuff said... Jeez even I'm thinking of buying one (note just "thinking") I'm also thinking of buying a 355, a Miura, a Countach LP400, 2.7RS, Aston Vantage 600....

I have a good friend who has owned a 1995 993 TT for the past 3-4 years. I can confirm that every thing that has gone wrong or needed replacing has cost him a small fortune (partly due to his insistence on using AFN, although he now changes his brake pads himself). HOWEVER – He uses the car everyday, regularly takes it on the track and experiences warp factor 9 (in Germany) several times year. Are the costs worth it? IMHO & his + others, you just can’t get much better than a 993 TT, an all-round everyday usable supercar, which still turns heads and looks the absolute dogs, esp. in Black and newly cleaned.

thanks folks - I'm not unused to high maintenance costs but was looking to get some kind of handle on what is realistic for this particular supercar - I fully appreciate that you can always buy a wrongun' and that the more extreme the performance the greater the potential pain if a significant problem hits - I'll root out the Evo piece mentioned (thanks for the tip) - how have people found warranty cover ? endless problems in getting pay out or is it simply that the heavy costs are related to "consumable" items which are expensive in themselves - if the consensus is that with a decent warranty and an annual fund of say £5k over 3 years I would have a decent chance of getting by I'll get test driving

well I test drove the 964 rs today (it had about 295bhp). its was cool very tempted, www.autofarm.co.uk/car.php3/SB420.html Any idea on the 0-100 mph on this car as i cannot find any figures.

0-100 must be in the 10 secs area with the Motec, not sure it will go sub 10 sec though. 0-60 will probabally be fractionally quicker than the standard 5.3 secs.

According to Autocar and Motor who did a full road test: 0-60 in 4.8 secs 0-100 in 12.1 I'm sure with a few tweaks (exhaust, filter, chip etc.) then a 0-100 in the 11s is very realistic. 9M's beasties must be getting on for 10 or even sub 10... Motec is about 320, Motec +1 is about 340 and Motec +2 is about 360, if I remember correctly. Autofarm's drive is a true test of 964RS suspension comfort!!!

£4k a year on a 993TT? Presumably that included all the consumables, i.e. expensive gumballs that Metcalfe & Co regularly ripped orf it? In 3 years, actual running costs other than automotive heroin abuse and other steroidal overdosage, petrol and batteries has never been over a grand. It absolutely is the everyday supercar and certainly appears to have been hewn from the granite face of Olympus by the boy Zeus himself. Buy it, nail it and annexe. SCHNELL!!!

You were skim reading Von Schnaffenburg! I said in the post it included tyres, tracking, servicing, brakes etc. It excluded petrol and depreciation. The bill would have been lower if Mr Metcalfe didn;t use a main dealer to adjust his tracking every five minutes. IIRC he did a full geometry set up about 4 times in the year... at 250 a time that is going to hurt... >> Edited by domster (moderator) on Wednesday 21st May 13:46

Youre right on the tracking Dom....they paid £50k for it and sold it on for £40k within the year...As we know the depreciation curve has flattened for these so there shouldn't be such a nasty shock with respect to that part of ownership.

the ride was find imo, i h8 body roll any way. i just have to think if i can live with no extras. 964rs or 993 c4s o some one please tell me lol

Now you have to drive the 993 C4S... It will be softer than the RS, roll more, but have more toys. Then you makes your choice... I'd take the RS every time, but then I have just bought mine back off the bloke I sold it to, so completely biased

ok i have 2 cars atm S2elise and a clio sport. www.s2elise.co.uk/lls/frontside.jpg I am going to sell them both and buy 1 car a 911. i have short listed 3 cars. and would like to spend about 37k. 1:97R 993 C2S 2:99T 996 C4 3.4 (with a gt3 aero kit ;-) 3:964 Carrera 2 RS Lightweight question, it will be an only car i do 18k miles a year and i do 6 or 7 track days a year aswell. could i live with the 964 ? question 2: Is the 3.4 996 ok or do i need a 3.6 ? question 3: Any advice or things I need to know when i go looking ? Thanks all David