996 - only buy from a reputable dealer? - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, Any advice would be welcome here (esp from recent experience!) I’m in the market for a good 996 (nothing fancy, a bog standard c2 would do for me) , and a general theme to all the buyers guides I’ve read and watched is: 1) quality and evidence of well looked after is paramount and 2) hedge your bets and spend a bit more and buy from a reputable dealer. This means private sellers are likely to be a bit of a mine field. I don’t have a huge amount of mechanical knowledge, when looking at a car I could spot an oil leak, rust on an arch or listen for a rattle at idle, but that’s as much as my mechanical vetting would go. I would look for invoices from recent work, usual ims /rms being done and full service history etc. I’d also want to get a check by an independent inspector that do through checks and look for bore scoring etc. In your experience do you think this is enough to find a relatively good one or you think on balance reduce your risk and go with a dealer? Cheers!

At 20 years old I can’t help but think any 996 is likely to be a risk unless you are happy to pay a premium from a specialist willing to warranty it. I did none of the above and took a gamble on a car from a dealer with a largely worthless warranty, that needed some mechanical work but had really good bodywork. So far I’m really happy with it.

IMO of buying used Porsches, both for myself & in helping friends, used 996s (& Boxsters) from used car dealers fall in to 2 categories...1. A marque specialist or 2. general used car dealers. If you want peace of mind I think a marque specialist should be the better choice although it all comes down to who it is & how well they prepare their cars prior to sale. Many of the marque specialists now struggle with selling 996s due to the potential level of sales preparation required to bring the cars up to retail standard as well as the normal wear and tear items on a 20+ year old car (even at trade prices). Non marque specialists are less likely to know the complexities of a 996 and their warranties will fall short on a decent sized repair, unlike many marque specialists who stand behind their own cars and either have their own directly appointed technician (such as Friends Green Porsche or 911 Virgin). The obvious issues about IMS and RMS are the main topics although replacement suspension and air con/normal rads will easily chew a decent wedge of dealer margin. Ultimately buying a 20 year old 911 (like other 20 yr old cars) means you have to do your due diligence as most dealers won’t agree to repair minor failures under whatever warranty they offer (unless you spot it as part of the sales negotiation), but only say the bigger ones (& those that are not considered “wear and tear”). If you are intending on buying privately, forums such as PH & 911uk can often yield some good opportunities as a motivated seller will sensibly have had their car serviced before listing & will (if asked) offer the details of their Porsche service specialist so a buyer can ask about the last service and whether they highlighted any possible imminent maintenance items etc. A good enthusiast will have their car inspected annually (regardless of mileage) & the considered opinion is that an average £2k pa maintenance budget is sensible as well as listing in detail when asked exactly what they’ve done over the last few years. Also consider whether you truly want a Carrera over a Carrera 4 as the 4 is often a cheaper car to buy & to most people you couldn’t differentiate them on the road (& there are often more 4 models available).

Nothing wrong with private sellers. Just get a decent inspection.

I wouldn't only buy from a dealer. Despite what's said above there are many specialists still selling them, some like friends Green Porsche who almost exclusively specialise in 996s. The problem is they all charge a premium and I think given the enthusiastic following these cars have you can easily pick a very very well looked after car up off the owners groups, forums or even the 3.4 thread here for a good price. In fact, it's not uncommon for the cars in these places to be snapped up by the dealers and instantly have £3k slapped on top without having to put an oily rag near them. It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.

OP do you have a indy that you are planning on using for work, perhaps you already have a relationship with one, if so have you asked if they know of anyone thinking about selling, many may be thinking but can’t be bothered, a buyer on tap might just make their mind up

jonny996 said: OP do you have a indy that you are planning on using for work, perhaps you already have a relationship with one, if so have you asked if they know of anyone thinking about selling, many may be thinking but can’t be bothered, a buyer on tap might just make their mind up That’s a good shout. I only live a few miles from portiacraft who have a great rep for the work they do but they are a dealer too. Will see if there any other local Indy workshops close by. A few in Essex I think which are not too far away.

[quote=nunpuncher]I wouldn't only buy from a dealer. Despite what's said above there are many specialists still selling them, some like friends Green Porsche who almost exclusively specialise in 996s. The problem is they all charge a premium and I think given the enthusiastic following these cars have you can easily pick a very very well looked after car up off the owners groups, forums or even the 3.4 thread here for a good price. In fact, it's not uncommon for the cars in these places to be snapped up by the dealers and instantly have 3k slapped on top without having to put an oily rag near them. It sounds like you've done your homework and a PPI by a pro is definitely the way to go even if you are mechanically minded. What I will say is that these cars also can't hide when they are mechanically tired. The engine will sound rough or even misfire, suspension will knock, the interior will creak, the gearbox will groan and the car will generally feel vague and loose. My own car has 86k miles on it, is 22 years old and the controls and handling feel tighter and sharper than every brand new car I've owned.[/] Cheers for this. I think to go private sale it does seem like good provenance and a good mechanical check would cover it. I keep an eye on the friends green website, they seem to be priced a little higher than other (good) dealers but it does look like they make sure their cars are good.

I spent ages (2 years) fawning over the FGP website and over time becoming more and more frustrated with the pricing. I remember a while back (18 months?) when they did a video on tiptronic and had a guards red 996 c2 and I expected a high teens/20-21k price and was going to dive in for it. I think it ended up being 25k and it totally threw me. I ended up stepping down my search as a result of this. Yes I am an idiot etc However - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier. I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard. I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car.

conanius said: I spent ages (2 years) fawning over the FGP website and over time becoming more and more frustrated with the pricing. I remember a while back (18 months?) when they did a video on tiptronic and had a guards red 996 c2 and I expected a high teens/20-21k price and was going to dive in for it. I think it ended up being 25k and it totally threw me. I ended up stepping down my search as a result of this. Yes I am an idiot etc However - I guess everything happens for a reason and I managed to strike gold and get a brilliantly maintained car a friend had - Early 996 C2 3.4 Manual It’s got absolutely stacks of history, and whilst the front end bodywork needs a bit of a tidy up - bumper and bonnet respray - I couldn’t be happier. I ended up going for a higher mileage car (135k) that had been brilliantly maintained by specialists during my friends ownership - and had a really comprehensive history before his ownership, including an engine rebuild by Autofarm. I can’t comment how fastidious previous owners were - the Im history suggests they did a good job - but I can’t say a bad word about his ownership. IMO if you go private you want to find an owner like this, and that is unsurprisingly hard. I think, however, if I’d missed this option I’d probably have gone for a FGP car. They seem to do incredible prep, and if I lived near them I’d get them to look after my car. FGP have come a long way and are now even selling a 997 GTS for 58 grand https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255521787136 In their early days I did see some discussion about them on here and some of it wasn't favourable. Clearly they have carved themselves a little niche although they seem to sell a lot less earlier 996 cars now which is a shame but could be because cheap good quality examples just don't exist in my view. I don't know if their prep is that good or they just buy well. Yes I have enjoyed their videos but I see them as more of a marketing tool than particularly informative. I did see a red aero 996 prior to them selling it which was in absolutely pristine condition. I knew the PO and I know what they paid and what they advertised it for. It needed virtually zero prep I'd say as it was in such good condition. I think they did remedy one niggle but I'd suspect there is no YouTube video of their prep for that car but I've not checked. How long have they been around for now, is it 4 or 5 years? Considering they now seem to have a good reputation I think that's not taken them long in the general scheme of things.

Have a look on 911uk for feedback on fgp (unless I've got my companies mixed up and it was an off day for said company)

The 99 ocean blue C4 at FGP is exact same as mycar and i dont think it is over priced , i dont get the FGP bashing

On that point, does anyone know if there is a list of recommended dealers on PH, I feel like this would be lurking in a forum post somewhere. I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on: Ams Portiacraft Friends green Rpm Paul stephens Cridfords 911 virgin

I'm not sure where the market is currently for a nice early C2 Manual Coupe. But generally existing owners believe prices should be higher than those waiting to buy. And I say this being an owner myself.

lemmingjames said: Have a look on 911uk for feedback on fgp (unless I've got my companies mixed up and it was an off day for said company) Whilst I haven’t used FGP, I get the impression they’ve come a long way from their early days & their commitment is demonstrated by having their own techie to not only prepare their sales cars, but also service customers cars. FGP have also been a small part of the reason why the 996 values have gone up as they have targeted early on in their business life the 996 range, whereas many larger specialist dealers had decided they were too old to retail given the necessary work to bring them up to retail standards. The fact that FGP will publish a YouTube clip about the preparation of sales cars I think is quite a bold thing as any would-be buyer can see the extent to which they prepare their cars. I noted another post in the thread and the fact that FGP they can put a mark up on a car that had been listed as a private sale beforehand is a fact of life and also necessary if they are to make a profit and survive long-term (hence being able to support all the customers who they’ve sold cars to previously).

jwbc1984 said: On that point, does anyone know if there is a list of recommended dealers on PH, I feel like this would be lurking in a forum post somewhere. I’ve jotted down the below, I know there would be loads more but currently these are the websites I keep an eye on: Ams Portiacraft Friends green Rpm Paul stephens Cridfords 911 virgin It sounds like you've decided to buy from a dealer?

Not yet decided, still look at PH classified, auto trader too and various Porsche forums. Small spanner in the works - ramp into rebuilt garage may cause low cars to bottom out. So before I look to buy I need to see if a 996 can drive in there. Could be a right arse if not.

OP, a couple of things....there are a few “rebuilt” engined cars for sale that have been to Hartech recently & if you have the budget, they are generally considered the pick of the engine rebuilders although you need to be sure they’ve had a full rebuild. Some sellers (even with rebuilt engined cars) seem to be struggling to find new homes for their cars currently & it might be that a waiting game & some careful negotiation for a car being sold privately delivers you a good Carrera. As for your garage issue, other than getting a friendly 996 owner to test your driveway approach, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper and/or those that have lowered/adjustable suspension i.e. only look for cars running a normal ride height. GLWTS

MrC986 said: As for your garage issue, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper This

jwbc1984 said: Small spanner in the works - ramp into rebuilt garage may cause low cars to bottom out. Perhaps a couple of pics may be good enough to give us an idea of what you're working with

I like this one and the dealer has a couple more for sale too. 22 grand C2 Manual 2000 - levers not buttons for bonnet and boot release https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224984457164

Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though. Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble.

ATM said: MrC986 said: As for your garage issue, I’d suggest you just avoid cars with an aerokit front bumper This I’ve heard this before so good point. I *think* the issue will not be scraping front or rear, more bottoming out when driving over the top and in. An old e92 320, which has about 16cm of ground clearance has about 5 cm of clearance in the middle. It does have a longer wheelbase though. I think I’m going have to source a friendly 996 owner or request a test drive to see for sure. If it does I’ve seen another post that shows well placed speedbumps on the ramp can lift the back of the car clearing the bump. If it comes to that will wheel in the father in law who has been an engineer all his life. My career in marketing has not prepared me well for this.

jwbc1984 said: I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble. I would try some more number plates. I just tried my friends [green] and his is not ULEZ and neither is mine.

jwbc1984 said: Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though. Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble. 996.2!!! Burn him😀, the hassel to get a .1 certificate will be worth it

jonny996 said: jwbc1984 said: Really nice blue, not sure in the tan interior though. Moot point, I have to do a 996.2 as live inside ulez. I know you can get a cert of conformity to prove 996.1 is ok but it’s a bit of a gamble. 996.2!!! Burn him??, the hassel to get a .1 certificate will be worth it It's hardly a hassle. One email to Porsche and boom it's done. Yeah I agree about the burning. We did have a 996.1 owner swing the CAZ ULEZ thing recently which is way more difficult than the TFL ULEZ. OP has not told us where he is but I'm assuming London Town as most people refer to their TFL as ULEZ.

jonny996 said: The 99 ocean blue C4 at FGP is exact same as mycar and i dont think it is over priced , i dont get the FGP bashing I'm not bashing them per se, just do your own research into any company. Maybe they was having an off day with the members on 911uk. When I had my old car, a reputable Indy left the earth strap loose on it so some places do have their off days.

I'd be looking for a hartech build. If its a private sale, ppi it, job done.

Yea, I’m London, about 1/2 inside the new expanded ulez. Already has to sell one car because of it. I love the vitriol to a 996.2!! I would say, the fried eggs of the .1 have aged VERY well, much better than the facelift.

Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set. We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo. If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive. For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars

jonny996 said: Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set. We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo. If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive. For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars The OP didn't mention Hartech so let's not put words in his mouth. I don't want to debate values but I agree with You. We should be more positive. A nice early car is a relative bargain in my opinion. I think the main problem with these cars is their price. Owners don't want to invest too much into them because they won't recover that money if they sell. That doesn't give you a lot of wiggle room. Then buyers come along who want the world for nothing. They want a well maintained car with all new everything, low mileage, the right spec, lovely original condition and low owners. These cars just don't exist.

Apologies OP I never meant to refer to you, it was a more general observation

jonny996 said: Am I the only one thinking expectations need to be set. We’re talking about a recognised apprenticing classic of the most recognisable sports car that has ever been maid for the price of a VW Polo. If it’s going to have a Hartech rebuild, pass a PPI & have good ownership & service history, it’s going to be fake or expensive. For some reason, us 996 owners never like to talk up our cars Correct, but a Hartech build is well worth the money (in my view) and I'd be prepared to pay a premium for the right car. That's just me though. (I don't own a Hartech car btw)

I wanted to get the forums view on risk really. I’ve never owned a Porsche before and I’m now in a position where I can get a good 996 (ignoring garage and incline debacle), but I don’t have a bottomless budget. I have about £25k and like anyone getting one I want a good one with the right looking after will keep going for a long time. I want to minimise the risk of big bills in the immediate future so wondered the best way to go about it. Finding a hartech rebuilt one would be great, but from what I’ve seen, the owners know the value it brings and they tend to be outside my price bracket. A route I haven’t done is give them a bell as I have read they might be able to know some for sale, so I might give them a bell. I know there are cheap 996s out there - I don’t want a £16k 140kmiles cat d eBay special, as I know that’s likely a clanger - and I think I’m realistic about what I get for my budget. I wanted to get the consensus from existing owners if they thought paying the premium from a highly regarded specialist is an imperative or keep my options open. TBH - this thread has been v useful!

I would go indy dealer every time. I’ve had several 987/997 Porsches and I wouldn’t want the lottery of going private (unless a long-term member of PCGB who has cherished their car) and I would never ever buy from a non-specialist dealer. I’ve seen several cars on sale from the latter and they have been absolutely terrible - shoddy paintwork, leaks and generally poor to drive. So bad that I didn’t even bother with getting an inspection. If you buy from one of the better indys (RPM, RSJ etc.) they have buyers who only pick the best cars and will weed out the lemons to save you time. They also tend to have their own mechanics prepping the cars. These are guys who know the cars inside out, will know all the standard issues and sort them out prior to selling. The decent indys also have a reputation to keep so it’s not in their interest to sell duds. Don’t forget hardcore Porsche fans are a difficult bunch to please and the indys need to stay on their side. But I always always always get my cars inspected by a Porsche specialist. Porsche Inspections are the best imho. They will save you thousands in the long term by spotting potential issues. Any decent Porsche specialist will be happy to allow inspections. Walk away from any who don’t. My final parting advice is this: just make sure you budget for bills. These cars can be ruinous to keep in top condition. I’ve just had a water pump and coil packs replaced on my 987 Boxster and the bill was over a grand. This is far from unusual and I usually allow for a couple of grand each year for oil changes and wear and tear items. I get so frustrated when I read stories of people buying ‘cheap’ Porsches and then moaning that they’re unreliable. They’re only unreliable when you buy cheap and scrimp on maintenance. There’s something about Porsches that often invite ill-informed buyers who think they’re a cheap way into sports car ownership. A 911 is expensive when new. The value goes down with time but spares and maintenance stay the same. You’re doing the right thing at the moment by researching as much as you can. Good luck with the buying. They’re fabulous cars and once you buy into the marque you may never leave! I know I never have done and I can’t see it happening in the future.

I think the problem with only going for dealer cars when talking about a 25k 996 is they don't really exist. Not many dealers are in this market. Either because they can't find good stock to buy or they can't make enough margin on these cars or they are too risky at this price point. This is why FGP were unique when they came along. The blue car at FGP mentioned above looks nice to me - link below. I see the YouTube walk around video is from 2 months ago so does this give us an idea of how long they have had the car for sale. The description says 10k worth of prep work. So does this mean they bought the car for 10k less than they're selling or are they making a loss? And why hasn't it sold yet? I'd guess that 10k number is retail pricing and they have 4 or 5k margin in that work. We have to assume they are making money but if it hangs around for a while perhaps they will need to reduce the price and this eats into their margin. This is always a problem for dealers selling cars when the market overall starts to drop. https://www.friendsgreenporsche.com/car/porsche-91... The ad says its a 1 previous owner car. Reading through the list of their prep work is interesting as most of that list is valid for my early car with double that mileage. If they bought that car with Gearbox Whine, a tired clutch, shabby paint, worn steering wheel, leaking expansion tank, leaking RMS etc then it was a bit of a lemon. All of which has been replaced on my car too. So I think that's a good buyers guide to an early car if you're looking to buy one. Interesting also they mention the following which my car needs but I have so far ignored - renew oil pressure sender, renew passenger vanity mirror unit, renew fuel locking rod and guide, renew rear screen seal Finally I'm curious what this one means - install jubilee clip mod to steering rack PAS hose ferrule, It sounds to me like this car has had virtually no maintenance prior to them buying it. Which is similar to my mate's green 996.2 mentioned above. I'll copy and paste it's story from another post I made elsewhere below this one - or perhaps this link will work instead. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... So similar in that it had been owned for many years by the same owner who was not very particular and therefore had very little work done to it so this all then needed doing once it was bought by a more enthusiastic and particular owner. I've waffled on a bit here and not sure I've really made a point so I will try to.... I don't think many dealers would take on a car for sale which needs 10k worth of prep and is only selling for 23k and then sits around for over 2 months without selling. They would need to buy this car for 13k and then they only make their profit on the prep work. I'm curious why FGP even have that car for sale. I'd guess it was maybe a px but I have no idea really. FGP only have one more early car which is another C4, it's had 7k worth of prep work and is up for 21k and they state they sold it previously perhaps giving us a clue why they have it for sale again - perhaps a px maybe where the owner has upgraded to a 997 or something. They used to regularly stock early C2 cars when no one else did and now they don't have any.

Its a minefield IMHO - I'd be using the £25K (or part thereof) as a deposit on something nearly new from an OPC with warranty and fully known costs over x amount of time. Reasons: 1. costs are known, 2. warranty in place should anything truly bad occur, 3. known future value so you aren't fully committed to it long term, 4. no concerns over massive potential costs (engine rebuild etc). Totally depends on your aversion to risk. I'm risk attentive rather than aversive, but wanted some peace of mind on what to me is a significant purchase. Love a 996 4S to look at, those curves are sublime, I opted for a 3 month old 718 Cayman GTS after having test driven 992S at PEC. The 992 was 'flattering' and beautiful, the 718 was more engaging. Will most likely end up with a 996 4S for the other half sooner or later. Good luck with your search and decisions.

The number of “cheap” 996 Carreras has generally dropped massively IMO in the last 3 years. I can remember seeing the odd 100k mile plus C4 coupe privately listed at sub £10k whereas now you’d struggle to see the bottom of the market below at least £12k (if not more). Active dealers like FGP would, we understand from forum “chat”, almost bid to buy cars blind from private sellers and it is very much fastest finger to to the phone, but when the private buyers are more motivated they can beat the dealers to it - forum activity has also helped if people are known to be looking for cars as others will post links up. OP, when you are actively looking, include websites such as Car and Classic as people 996s can get listed on there.

I've got 5 cars outside and they were all bought privately. I prefer to look the PO or owner in the eye and get a feel for the type of person they are. My last 2 purchases I think I did well but I'm far from good at this. I do get excited and just say yes without thinking sometimes. So because of this I now take a friend with me to balance my over exuberance with some balanced well thought out logic. That's the idea. So yes an inspection is good enough if you want to mitigate risk. I'm not anti dealer I'm just saying what's been working for me. If a dealer is offering px then I can understand the drawer. Especially seeing as I hate, really hate selling cars.

jwbc1984 said: Yea, I’m London, about 1/2 inside the new expanded ulez. Already has to sell one car because of it. I love the vitriol to a 996.2!! I would say, the fried eggs of the .1 have aged VERY well, much better than the facelift. I agree with the comment about the fried egg headlights, I own a 986 Boxster, one of the early ones with the orange indicators and initially I wasn't sure about them and considered changing them to clear to reduce the effect but they have massively grown on me and I really love the retro look of them now. I know other 986 owners in the owners groups are now going from clear headlights back to orange for the originality of them.

MrC986 said: The number of “cheap” 996 Carreras has generally dropped massively IMO in the last 3 years. I can remember seeing the odd 100k mile plus C4 coupe privately listed at sub 10k whereas now you’d struggle to see the bottom of the market below at least 12k (if not more). Active dealers like FGP would, we understand from forum “chat”, almost bid to buy cars blind from private sellers and it is very much fastest finger to to the phone, but when the private buyers are more motivated they can beat the dealers to it - forum activity has also helped if people are known to be looking for cars as others will post links up. OP, when you are actively looking, include websites such as Car and Classic as people 996s can get listed on there. Cool, thanks, will add to the list.

The phrase modern classic seems to have become fairly common these days, and it's a fairly useful way of thinking of these cars, I think - there's a hierarchy of things that you need to be ok, shell, then engine and transmission, electrics, running gear, interior. They can be as reliable as they were when they rolled off the line (and be better to drive, with modern suspension and setup), but you're probably going to have to do some work to get them there. I don't think it matters where you buy from as long as the price reflects the value of the car to you - and accounts for what you will need to do with it once it's yours. The other thing none of us can know is what your own standards are - if the boot release lever is scuffed is that something you are willing to accept? (I had mine repainted, they're scuffed again but since I did it I'm ok with it, which I admit doesn't make a huge amount of sense).

Dammit said: The phrase modern classic seems to have become fairly common these days, and it's a fairly useful way of thinking of these cars, The other thing none of us can know is what your own standards are - if the boot release lever is scuffed is that something you are willing to accept? (I had mine repainted, they're scuffed again but since I did it I'm ok with it, which I admit doesn't make a huge amount of sense). Glad its not just me with the boot lever.....

jwbc1984 said: "Finding a hartech rebuilt one would be great, but from what I’ve seen, the owners know the value it brings and they tend to be outside my price bracket. A route I haven’t done is give them a bell as I have read they might be able to know some for sale, so I might give them a bell." I did just this.... periodically over a 14 month period. But in the end, I found what I wanted thanks to the individuals at Hartech.

Thanks everyone for the advice - i'll update this threat as and when i progress!

I am not wanting to bang on about getting friendly with a good indy but it does pay great dividends, I mentioned to the guy I use some 6 years ago that I was looking for one, this lead to a discussion that he had bought a good one a few months ago that needed a engine rebuild, he was going to work on it when he had time as there was no rush as it wasn't a customers car. Turned out that if committed to it , it would become a customers car & he would get the engine shipped off to hartech . We were still talking something like 6 months before I got it but what I got was a Hartech rebuilt engine (new manifold studs) in a car that the guy I trust had sorted & reconditioned (new brakes, M030 suspension) ect. Long story sort is there are other options out there than the finished article

There's a 2002 Hartech rebuilt C4 convertible on AutoTrader that looks nice. My only concern is the description says, "not seen wet conditions" and in one photo it's literally parked in a ford.

Nexus Icon said: There's a 2002 Hartech rebuilt C4 convertible on AutoTrader that looks nice. My only concern is the description says, "not seen wet conditions" and in one photo it's literally parked in a ford. Started out at 23k and has been dropping...

Nexus Icon said: There's a 2002 Hartech rebuilt C4 convertible on AutoTrader that looks nice. My only concern is the description says, "not seen wet conditions" and in one photo it's literally parked in a ford. That looks a complete steal, check the MOT history on it, straight pass with no advisories for past 10 years

Bought both of my 996s from private buyers. Both mature guys who pampered them and were members of PCGB / TIPEC. One guy built Restomod 911s for a hobby and the other used my Porsche Indy for work so gave it the thumbs up before purchase. Again I'm the kind of person who spends money being proactive on maintenance incl full suspension rebuild, switchable exhaust etc. on Iris (the Blue 996 C4) and recently £4k on dropping engine, new brake lines, power steering line, AOS, Service and more on Sabine (the Silver C2 Aero) but you will find lots like me, buy on condition or if buying cheap hold a big contingency. Don't get hung up on IMS or Hartech rebuilds, particularly if looking at Gen 1 3.4s For me if I was selling either (never selling Iris but could be persuaded to part with Sabine as fancy a V8 Vantage !) they would come with a massive file of paperwork and would also happily direct them to the local Porsche Indy who looks after them. At the end of the day pay your money and take your choice but I'd get into the club forum and 996 Owners Club in Facebook to look for a car rather than pay over the odds for dealer and a Warranty that's likely to be worth little. Good luck in the search

jonny996 said: Nexus Icon said: There's a 2002 Hartech rebuilt C4 convertible on AutoTrader that looks nice. My only concern is the description says, "not seen wet conditions" and in one photo it's literally parked in a ford. That looks a complete steal, check the MOT history on it, straight pass with no advisories for past 10 years I recall a car just like that mileage/rebuild being for sale a year ago. The advert included interior photos and it looked really mint. Might be same car. Think it was last seen at £18k

Andyoz said: jonny996 said: Nexus Icon said: There's a 2002 Hartech rebuilt C4 convertible on AutoTrader that looks nice. My only concern is the description says, "not seen wet conditions" and in one photo it's literally parked in a ford. That looks a complete steal, check the MOT history on it, straight pass with no advisories for past 10 years I recall a car just like that mileage/rebuild being for sale a year ago. The advert included interior photos and it looked really mint. Might be same car. Think it was last seen at £18k I'd buy that one at 18k no messing.

JEMAutomotive said: I'm the kind of person who spends money .... on Iris (the Blue 996 C4) Nice Which Blue is this?

ATM said: JEMAutomotive said: I'm the kind of person who spends money .... on Iris (the Blue 996 C4) Nice Which Blue is this? I’ve got a ocean blue non kitted C4 coupe on BBS sport classic II & I’ve never seen another like it before, then you & the Friends Green car pop up in same week.

ATM said: Finally I'm curious what this one means - install jubilee clip mod to steering rack PAS hose ferrule, The ferrule on the power steering hose corrodes, so the cheap fix is to put a jubilee clip on. Amateurs and not what I'd expect from a reputable outfit, mainly because it's horribly expensive to fix. My hose was about £350, the sub frame needs to come off as the hose routes way under the passenger arch. Expect them both to be seized into the rack and your rack pipes likely to be corroded. 2k to fix that lot. If you want it done properly.

ATM said: Nice Which Blue is this? Iris Blue Pearl, it was PTS on standard 996s but believe it was available on the 996.1 GT3 Most Iris Blue cars I've seen are 968 and the odd 993 Love the colour

jonny996 said: I’ve got a ocean blue non kitted C4 coupe on BBS sport classic II & I’ve never seen another like it before, then you & the Friends Green car pop up in same week. Not seen the FGP car, is it on their website ? Ocean a great colour

JEMAutomotive said: Not seen the FGP car, is it on their website ? Ocean a great colour https://www.friendsgreenporsche.com/car/porsche-911-996-carrera-4-manual-ims-done/

jimPH said: ATM said: Finally I'm curious what this one means - install jubilee clip mod to steering rack PAS hose ferrule, The ferrule on the power steering hose corrodes, so the cheap fix is to put a jubilee clip on. Amateurs and not what I'd expect from a reputable outfit, mainly because it's horribly expensive to fix. My hose was about £350, the sub frame needs to come off as the hose routes way under the passenger arch. Expect them both to be seized into the rack and your rack pipes likely to be corroded. 2k to fix that lot. If you want it done properly. This seems to be quite a common problem. My car was suffering from it when I bought it (was picked up in a PPI), Foolishly the selling dealer (non specialist) agreed to fix it properly. They tried to get a new hose made up to avoid the Porsche tax but couldn't get the right fittings so ended up having to buy from Porsche. I think fitting that, the aircon condensors and RMS will have eaten rather a lot of their margin on the car !!! To their credit they stuck to the deal and sorted the water pump when that gave up a couple of weeks into my ownership. I think there's quite a lot of truth in the theory that plenty of traders get burnt by this era of Porsche, thinking they're in for a cheap flip and then hitting some big-ticket items when buyers do their homework properly ! I guess this also suggests that there must be a lot that are changing hands without these things being looked at, and some very expensive first service bills for the new owners !

As I started this thread and I got some great advice along the way, I thought I'd bookend it with an update - I ended up buying a 01 c2 from TWG in Peterbrough. The car was priced at the slightly higher end of the price range but it was a lower mile example (not always a good thing) but also clearly looked after. TWG had serviced it for the last 7 odd years so knew the car well. I agreed a price to include a new RMS, upgraded IMS and new clutch so was v happy with the deal. Only had it a few weeks but obvs so far think its fantastic! Even managed a few trips with my wife and 2 kids in the back - bit of a squeeze but doable. I was worried it wouldnt get up and over the slope to my garage but it clears it with a couple of cms, so maybe changing suspension and dropping it a tiny bit in the future. For now I'm just enjoying it as is.

jwbc1984 said: As I started this thread and I got some great advice along the way, I thought I'd bookend it with an update - I ended up buying a 01 c2 from TWG in Peterbrough. The car was priced at the slightly higher end of the price range but it was a lower mile example (not always a good thing) but also clearly looked after. TWG had serviced it for the last 7 odd years so knew the car well. I agreed a price to include a new RMS, upgraded IMS and new clutch so was v happy with the deal. Only had it a few weeks but obvs so far think its fantastic! Even managed a few trips with my wife and 2 kids in the back - bit of a squeeze but doable. I was worried it wouldnt get up and over the slope to my garage but it clears it with a couple of cms, so maybe changing suspension and dropping it a tiny bit in the future. For now I'm just enjoying it as is. Great stuff OP, sounds like you got a good 'un. Nothing left to do but enjoy it! Although they're not exactly cheap to run and maintain properly, they're still a bit of a bargain in my opinion. I took the complete opposite route to you and bought the absolute cheapest one available, unseen, with no PPI, from a man on the internet I'd never met. And to make it doubly exciting/excruciating it has a chequered history and is a former Cat D. Taking two brave pills a day until it gets MOT'd and inspected this week.