Have I Been Ripped Off? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Well, as part of my investigation into my misfire, I have been looking at the coil packs. I spent 3h today, removing the arch liners, lights, bumper, intercoolers and heat shilds. I removed the coil packs and found that 5 of the 6 had cracked. OK! Missfire Source (hopefully) identified! So, something struck me. I very recently paid for a major service on my 996TT, including a new set of plugs. The work was done by an award-winning Porsche specialist I have always used. However, there is no way that anyone removing the coil packs to get to the spark plugs would miss the fact that the coil packs needed replacing. 3 had clearly visible cracks and 2 were badly de-laminating. Additionally, there were a few very challenging fastners to undo whan removing these parts. Two in particular, mounting the intercooler assembly, were so badly corroded / fused together that I had to drill them out and fit new ones. I.E. there is no way that the intercoolers were removed 60 dry miles ago... So, I removed the plugs and they look rather dirty, considering I have only driven 60 miles since the service. Probably a stupid question, but is there any way a specialist can replace the plugs without removing the intercooler assembly? Thanks, Ian Edited by Boggie on Sunday 28th August 01:16 Edited by Boggie on Sunday 28th August 01:29

Did spark plug change show on the service receipt? My cayman was 50K interval if I remember correctly. Coil packs also caused a misfire on mine after a period of inactivity.

You say it’s a ‘major service’ so easy to assume that would include plugs, probably best to check before making any accusations or getting cross with anybody though (not suggesting you would)!

Yes. Plugs are itemised at £350 on the invoice

I would first check if the plugs are the same make as they are using now, and take pictures. Then I would arrange to see the dealer principal and ask him if he thinks they are only 60 miles old

Ask the garage the same question you posted above ie can the plugs be removed without removing anything else. My experience of franchise dealerships not Porsche by the way is they love to charge for things and not actually doing them especially if car has done low mileage. Hence now on cars like our mini which is more accessible than a Porsche engine I do the plugs and air filter myself and the air filter box gets a proper clean out!

Boggie said: Well, as part of my investigation into my misfire, I have been looking at the coil packs. I spent 3h today, removing the arch liners, lights, bumper, intercoolers and heat shilds. I removed the coil packs and found that 5 of the 6 had cracked. OK! Missfire Source (hopefully) identified! So, something struck me. I very recently paid for a major service on my 996TT, including a new set of plugs. The work was done by an award-winning Porsche specialist I have always used. However, there is no way that anyone removing the coil packs to get to the spark plugs would miss the fact that the coil packs needed replacing. 3 had clearly visible cracks and 2 were badly de-laminating. Additionally, there were a few very challenging fastners to undo whan removing these parts. Two in particular, mounting the intercooler assembly, were so badly corroded / fused together that I had to drill them out and fit new ones. I.E. there is no way that the intercoolers were removed 60 dry miles ago... So, I removed the plugs and they look rather dirty, considering I have only driven 60 miles since the service. Probably a stupid question, but is there any way a specialist can replace the plugs without removing the intercooler assembly? Thanks, Ian Edited by Boggie on Sunday 28th August 01:16 Edited by Boggie on Sunday 28th August 01:29 Hi Ian, I’ve done a spark plug change myself on a 996 turbo, and it’s a straightforward job, but it’s time consuming as lots of disassembly is required. As you discovered, packaging is tight as rear bumper and lights have to come out, then intercoolers and associated brackets and heat shields, and even then, access to the coils and plugs is limited. I would suggest you cannot remove the plugs without removing all the above parts first. I would think a refund on the work you’ve paid for is entirely reasonable, as I just can’t see how they did the work.

It does all seem to point to the fact that they most likely didn't change the plugs even though they charged for them.

Evening all, OK. So here are the spark plugs: Could they look like this after 62 miles? Also the Coil Packs: Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks...

Boggie said: Evening all, OK. So here are the spark plugs: Could they look like this after 62 miles? Also the Coil Packs: Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks... Those plugs have been in there whole lot longer than 62 miles! Also those coils are scrap, there is no way you'd refit those unless the customer specifically told you to.

Those plugs haven't been changed recently. I'd be checking what else they charged for....

Boggie said: Evening all, OK. So here are the spark plugs: Could they look like this after 62 miles? Also the Coil Packs: Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks... Yes, those spark plugs have been in there a long time. No way they were new 62 miles ago. And nobody would put those coil packs back in. This all suggests those plugs and coils were not removed at the service which you paid for.

“Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks...” Do we get to know who the “award winning Porsche specialist” is? Seems only fair to share who was responsible for such a major miss……..

The Indy I use in N London for both my 996 and 991 will always keep items like this that they remove from the car to show me when I collect and pay the bill. They will often send me a pic or short video when the car is on the ramp to show me each stage and any potential issues prior to carrying out the work. It's an education and peace of mind for me to see these parts after 2/4/6 years on the car and it's an inexpensive and trust building exercise from the mechanic. When my son started driving I called up the garage doing his first major service and requested they did the same, as they recommended changing shocks, gaiters and brake lines on top of the usual fluids, filters and plugs- I said I wanted my son to see the wear and tear that these parts are subjected to and how important it is to maintain them. Any decent garage will do this.

Boggie said: Evening all, OK. So here are the spark plugs: Could they look like this after 62 miles? Also the Coil Packs: Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks... I was in the motor trade for 12 years and any experienced technician could easily tell you those plugs have not been changed recently. I’m shocked some of those cool packs haven’t fallen apart in your hands. My suggestion would be to make the independent aware of your findings and arrange for a full refund on all the works not just the plugs element. If they have missed changing the plugs what else have they charged you for that they haven’t carried out. I would then take your car to another independent, explain what has happened and get them to go through it properly. If they don’t play ball, make them aware of this thread and go to trading standards. If they have genuinely ripped you off they will do it to others. If they have made a genuine mistake they will put there hands up. Just be aware the owner of the garage may not be aware some of his technicians are not carrying out work properly. If they are on a bonus scheme paid for the amount of work they supposedly carry out this can happen.

hard to defend that, they should immediately apologise and do the work for free as well as something else for compensation

GT4RS said: I was in the motor trade for 12 years and any experienced technician could easily tell you those plugs have not been changed recently. I’m shocked some of those cool packs haven’t fallen apart in your hands. My suggestion would be to make the independent aware of your findings and arrange for a full refund on all the works not just the plugs element. If they have missed changing the plugs what else have they charged you for that they haven’t carried out. I would then take your car to another independent, explain what has happened and get them to go through it properly. If they don’t play ball, make them aware of this thread and go to trading standards. If they have genuinely ripped you off they will do it to others. If they have made a genuine mistake they will put there hands up. Just be aware the owner of the garage may not be aware some of his technicians are not carrying out work properly. If they are on a bonus scheme paid for the amount of work they supposedly carry out this can happen. I agree with this. Give them a chance to make good their mistake or oversight of an inexperienced technician, I’m not particularly a fan of needless naming and shaming…

Tech collects parts from stores to carry out the required service / work requested by owner. Tech decides to take a short cut and parts become some of his homer stock ?. Not unheard of. I had it happen to me several years ago at an OPC.

andyglos said: “Surely anyone, let alone Porsche-trained techs at an award-winning Porsche specialist, would see that 5 out of the 6 on the car needed replcing? These are not minor cracks...” Do we get to know who the “award winning Porsche specialist” is? Seems only fair to share who was responsible for such a major miss…….. I don't think that would be helpful or fair at this time. I have written to them to voice my concerns and hear their PoV. There may well be a mixup in the workshop and a disconnect with what I asked for and subsequently paid for.

Oh no, definitely asked for a Major. The car had been in dry storage for some years and I was recommissioning to get it back onto the road. I had replaced the Aircon rads, horn, roof lining, tyres, powder-coated the wheels etc, but there was still lots to do at the specialist: Major Service Brake Fluid Change Spark Plugs Fuel filter Drive belt Gearbox oil Diff oil Brake lines Aircon re-gas MOT Caliper hoses

I spoke to the specialist today and we have cleared it up. I do believe that this was a genuine mistake. Both the owner and workshop manager come across as genuinely good people who are passionate about the cars and their customers. Everything else on the list was completed (of course I have double checked) apart from the plugs. However, I remember they were very busy in the run up to the bank holiday weekend and were trying to get my car completed by the Friday, close of play. Unfortunatey they didn't quite manage it, so the car stayed in the workshop, half done, and they finished the work the following Tuesday. I suspect that this might have been the issue. The workshop manager himself worked on my car and he was convinced he had changed the plugs. However, with the pictures I sent showing the plugs, coil packs and ceased fixings that had to be cut off and replace, he agreed that the plugs had not been changed and moreover he would have not refitted the old coil packs in that condition. They are going to reimburse me of course, but have offered an additional gesture of good will. I am rather relieved to be honest, as I have been with these guys for over 11 years and didn't want to start looking elsewhere. Thanks all for the input. Ian

Very good of you not to reveal the identity of the indy until matters were clarified and sorted to your satisfaction. Even the best people aren't infallible and everyone deserves a second chance unless found guilty of all charges.

Great result. Mistakes do happen.

Quite right; mistakes do happen and we all make them, it is how we deal with resolving the situation that really counts.

Taffy66 said: Very good of you not to reveal the identity of the indy until matters were clarified and sorted to your satisfaction. Even the best people aren't infallible and everyone deserves a second chance unless found guilty of all charges. Well, I think you can be found guilty on all charges, it's how you deal with it that matters. Obviously, some things are unforgivable. But honest mistakes happen and we all make them. So, long as the OP thinks it was an honest mistake and not a conscious attempt to charge for work not done, then I would say this falls into that category where what matters is how the indy deals with it once that mistake has happened that matters most, even if you'd still lose confidence in them if this sort of thing happened again.