Hmmm.... Why would Porsche UK want photographs... - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

of my tyres and my brakes before authorising a warranty claim on a failed radiator that the OPC has told them shows no external damage and delay the return of my car?

Wouldn't be trying to wriggle out of a claim would they? Who Porsche? Surely not

Ah, "Sorry sir, you appear to have non N-Rated tyres fitted, which is clearly the cause of your radiator leaking.."?

So that they can check you have Porsche brakes and pads, and N rated tyres. So that if you don't they can tell you to poke your claim.

They forgot to ask for a photo of your battery as well... Oh and don't forget the overspeed reading! Reasons why I don't hold a warranty on my car.

5517 said: of my tyres and my brakes before authorising a warranty claim on a failed radiator that the OPC has told them shows no external damage and delay the return of my car? Indicative of track use ? Sorry sir, our cars/radiators aren't covered by our warranty if the vehicle has been tracked. I'd use pictures of a brand new car's components I'd found on the interweb ! Good luck with those warranty claims all you trackday junkie GT4 owners ........

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If it's a 991 GT3 you could understand it. They had some cases of debris from the wheel side damaging rads as I recall. Then they fitted some mesh or similar about the time they were replacing engines.

sleep envy said:

Magic919 said: If it's a 991 GT3 you could understand it. They had some cases of debris from the wheel side damaging rads as I recall. Then they fitted some mesh or similar about the time they were replacing engines. It is a 991 GT3 which is why I don't understand it!!!!!!!!!!!

Slippydiff said: Indicative of track use ? Sorry sir, our cars/radiators aren't covered by our warranty if the vehicle has been tracked. Is this statement based on experience?

Surely Porsche wouldn't contemplate using track-day use as a warranty cop-out on a GT product... Ridiculous - your radiator failed on a year old car so Porsche should just crack on without the BS and fix it.

^+1 The picture thing is something new which I encountered last time as well. Rather boring....

am0611 said: They forgot to ask for a photo of your battery as well... Oh and don't forget the overspeed reading! Reasons why I don't hold a warranty on my car. This is under the standard manufacturer's warranty, not the extended warranty, so entirely different rules apply!!

I dont know any more but in my 25 years driving 911's and using OPC's and having warranty claims submitted I have always come away with a satisfactory result so maybe I should just relax a little and let the experts get on with it and wait for it to be resolved. I was just disappointed this morning as my GT3 addiction has not been fed since Saturday and the withdrawal is getting bad

Magic919 said: If it's a 991 GT3 you could understand it. They had some cases of debris from the wheel side damaging rads as I recall. Then they fitted some mesh or similar about the time they were replacing engines. It could be this. lets wait and see.

5517 said: "Damage caused by outside influences" Namely stones being shot forwards from the tyres into the back of the radiator which looked like it had been shot at!!! £1058inc for new rad fitted. Ouch.

"Damage caused by outside influences" Namely stones being shot forwards from the tyres into the back of the radiator which looked like it had been shot at!!! £1058inc for new rad fitted. It appears that we have all had a recall that deals with this but in some circumstances it cant be stopped. Im no techy but maybe someone who is could have a look at the current set up and see if we as owners can improve it especially those that will be tracking this summer. Edited by 5517 on Monday 23 February 16:11

Disgraceful. This sucks of a design fault and yet we the consumer are left to pay the consequences. Sound familiar???

5517 said: "Damage caused by outside influences" Namely stones being shot forwards from the tyres into the back of the radiator which looked like it had been shot at!!! £1058inc for new rad fitted. It appears that we have all had a recall that deals with this but in some circumstances it cant be stopped. Im no techy but maybe someone who is could have a look at the current set up and see if we as owners can improve it especially those that will be tracking this summer I'm pretty sure my car had some mesh grills fitted while it was awaiting the new engine - is this the recall you are referring to? Do you think this problem occured as part of your track day or normal road driving?.

Trev450 said: Disgraceful. This sucks of a design fault and yet we the consumer are left to pay the consequences. Sound familiar??? I must just say that PCGB have stepped up and swallowed the majority of the costs as good will based on my years as a customer so Im happy enough and now looking forward to getting the car back. Ive never missed an object so much

sidicks said: I'm pretty sure my car had some mesh grills fitted while it was awaiting the new engine - is this the recall you are referring to? Do you think this problem occured as part of your track day or normal road driving?. Yes, thats the recall. I use the back roads to Oulton and its much more likely i picked something up there than at the track however i have no way of knowing.

5517 said: Trev450 said: Disgraceful. This sucks of a design fault and yet we the consumer are left to pay the consequences. Sound familiar??? I must just say that PCGB have stepped up and swallowed the majority of the costs as good will based on my years as a customer so Im happy enough and now looking forward to getting the car back. Ive never missed an object so much I'm pleased that you are happy with the outcome, but this sort of thing should not happen in the first place. Its a GT car that uses sticky rubber. By definition they will fling debris everywhere.

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5517 said: "Damage caused by outside influences" Namely stones being shot forwards from the tyres into the back of the radiator which looked like it had been shot at!!! Sounds odd unless one is reversing at high speed an awful lot

They checked car for signs of an excursion into the gravel trap but it hadn't had one. Edited by 5517 on Monday 23 February 18:20

So in summary.... Porsche make recall modifications to 991 GT3 front wheel arch liners (with fitment of protective grill mesh to eliminate the possibility of any stones or debris being thrown forward into the back of the radiators) which don't actually work! Surely if the issue is one that they saw enough of to recognise a modification was necessary in the first place then their rectification has to be suitable to remove the problem? And it blatantly doesn't work! If you're happy with the level of goodwill then so be it but if I were a 991 GT3 owner I wouldn't expect my radiators to be at risk of damage from track use which is essentially what the car is designed for. Will be interested to have a closer look at Porsche's ineffective solution sometime...

Is there a possibility the damage could have occurred prior to the recall being performed? Was it actually losing fluid from the rads?

There is also the issue of stones being thrown off sticky tyres .... If you look at the wing tops of a lot of racing cars the paint is peppered with snowflake shaped cracks from stones peening the inside of the wings !

Porsche USA seem more generous about these things. A few years back I took my 996 (under extended warranty) to the dealer for a service, having spent the previous day laboriously taking out the roll bar and other evidence. As I handed over the key to the gruff chief tech, one of the young techs strolled past and said "saw your car at Willow Springs last weekend, it was awesome dude!". The chief tech showed the smallest smile I've ever seen, but that evening told me they'd found the water pump was on its way out so they'd fitted a new one under warranty...

How can they refuse any warranty claim on the basis of track use when you have AP saying things like "Track that thing!" in interviews on the GT4?

jackwood said: How can they refuse any warranty claim on the basis of track use when you have AP saying things like "Track that thing!" in interviews on the GT4? Because they exclude track use. It's in the paperwork.

You're happy that Porsche have swallowed the majority of costs?

Soov535 said: Because they exclude track use. It's in the paperwork. What paperwork? In the manufacturers warranty conditions?

jackwood said: Soov535 said: Because they exclude track use. It's in the paperwork. What paperwork? In the manufacturers warranty conditions? It'll be in the bumpf you get with the car somewhere.

I have never seen this. In no where does it say that track work invalidates the warranty on a porsche.

It sounds like a design fault and should still be covered by the warranty. I would refuse to pay for it and say that if you have to stump up, you will do so under protest and will then seek to recover it from them by a small claim in the county court. I don't know why intelligent, resourceful people allow a cack-handed bunch of administrators to push them around in respect of serious amounts of money.

ORD said: It sounds like a design fault and should still be covered by the warranty. I would refuse to pay for it and say that if you have to stump up, you will do so under protest and will then seek to recover it from them by a small claim in the county court. I don't know why intelligent, resourceful people allow a cack-handed bunch of administrators to push them around in respect of serious amounts of money. Because it was explained to me that this was a freak incident and that it was not something the dealership/Porsche were seeing globally or something that was ever likely to happen again.

5517 said: ORD said: It sounds like a design fault and should still be covered by the warranty. I would refuse to pay for it and say that if you have to stump up, you will do so under protest and will then seek to recover it from them by a small claim in the county court. I don't know why intelligent, resourceful people allow a cack-handed bunch of administrators to push them around in respect of serious amounts of money. Because it was explained to me that this was a freak incident and that it was not something the dealership/Porsche were seeing globally or something that was ever likely to happen again. It doesn't sound like a minor detail such as the above would deter ORD from making a claim against someone ! ! Sounds like he'd be suing the council (or perhaps the Highways department) for leaving unattended and unmarked stones on the road........ Remember peeps, where there's blame there's a claim, or I suppose you could just accept that sh*t happens and it's not actually anyone's fault, or is that just too simplistic for the PH massif ?

Porsche wouldn't put a new warranty on a 911 as it had a small nail in its tyre, it wasn't going flat or even showing signs of air loss??? They made the person put a new tyre on the car before they could issue the new warranty.

Slippydiff said: It doesn't sound like a minor detail such as the above would deter ORD from making a claim against someone ! ! Sounds like he'd be suing the council (or perhaps the Highways department) for leaving unattended and unmarked stones on the road........ Remember peeps, where there's blame there's a claim, or I suppose you could just accept that sh*t happens and it's not actually anyone's fault, or is that just too simplistic for the PH massif ? Quite right. Not as though we pay enough for these cars to expect the radiator to have an effective grill...

ORD said: It sounds like a design fault and should still be covered by the warranty. I would refuse to pay for it and say that if you have to stump up, you will do so under protest and will then seek to recover it from them by a small claim in the county court. I don't know why intelligent, resourceful people allow a cack-handed bunch of administrators to push them around in respect of serious amounts of money. Surely, when you use a car on track - even a car like a GT3 that is optimised for track use - then you must accept to pay for any damage incurred..? stones flicked up into the radiator I would consider acceptable damage I compete in stage rallies, and if I cause any damage to my car, its me who's fully responsible I also drive a 991 GT3. Any damage from normal road use I'd hope would be covered by warranty. If I take it on track, then I accept the consequences... Suggesting to take the dealer to the county court over stone damage to the radiator...? Are you serious...?

IREvans said: ORD said: It sounds like a design fault and should still be covered by the warranty. I would refuse to pay for it and say that if you have to stump up, you will do so under protest and will then seek to recover it from them by a small claim in the county court. I don't know why intelligent, resourceful people allow a cack-handed bunch of administrators to push them around in respect of serious amounts of money. Surely, when you use a car on track - even a car like a GT3 that is optimised for track use - then you must accept to pay for any damage incurred..? stones flicked up into the radiator I would consider acceptable damage I compete in stage rallies, and if I cause any damage to my car, its me who's fully responsible I also drive a 991 GT3. Any damage from normal road use I'd hope would be covered by warranty. If I take it on track, then I accept the consequences... Suggesting to take the dealer to the county court over stone damage to the radiator...? Are you serious...? Given what has been said by several posters, it is not "user error"; it is a design flaw. You have your own principles as to what you think is covered by the warranty, but that is not the same as what the warranty actually covers. Does it contain an express carve out for any damage done while driving on track? I would be amazed if Porsche would be that stupid. Of course I wouldn't sue for £1000. But I wouldn't have to, because Porsche would back down and behave decently.

ORD said: Given what has been said by several posters, it is not "user error"; it is a design flaw. Does it contain an express carve out for any damage done while driving on track? I would be amazed if Porsche would be that stupid. Of course I wouldn't sue for £1000. But I wouldn't have to, because Porsche would back down and behave decently. I fully expect a second recall for this problem.

5517 said: I fully expect a second recall for this problem. And rightly so! To build a GT3 which is likely to be used by the majority of owners for track days that allows debris thrown forward from the front wheels to damage the radiator EVEN AFTER A RECALL for a modification that Porsche deemed a suitable solution is madness. If the Porsche recall fix is not effective they need to provide a solution that is.

Is there any mention of track use in the user manual for the car ? From memory the manual for my 996 gt3 mentioned it as a suitable use for the car If it did I can't really see how they can wriggle out of a warranty claim

Its irrelevant whether or not this is happening on track. Debris can get thrown up from the tyres equally on the road!

Trev450 said: Its irrelevant whether or not this is happening on track. Debris can get thrown up from the tyres equally on the road! Thank you Trev

Trev450 said: Its irrelevant whether or not this is happening on track. Debris can get thrown up from the tyres equally on the road! Exactly! There is FAR more debris on our crumbling decrepit roads than there is on any track I've ever driven on. How would they go about discerning that the damage was collected whilst on track? If you are driving on the road or track, and you obviously haven't been involved in any off-Tarmac excursion, I can't see what the difference is re a warranty claim of this nature.