Friendly advice from Dubai - Buying GT3's and 2's - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, I thought I would let some of you chaps know about the market for GT3's and GT2's over here in Dubai. I am referring to pre 2014 models...the manual ones...how god intended us to drive. In short, prices here are dirt cheap and when I mean dirt cheap I mean 50% off the price. Bear in mind that JZM recently opened in Abu Dhabi and whilst that is partly because of servicing I believe that a massive pat of this is because Porsche's here are dirt cheap. Yes they are Left Hand Drive..but really, who gives a s t. All the decent cars are LHD anyway. Besides, having a left hooker means you can sell to the European market too and if you are going for an RS then you are prob using it for the track anyway. I come back to the UK every 3 months and have an Integrale there....oooooo its painful when I drive on the roads as it feels like the mounts are going to pop through the bonet. Crap roads. Anyway, keep an eye out on Dubizzle, which is the main site for cars. A major factor is that people here don't like manuals.....hilarious. As such, when you buy a manual car here you can literally low ball the hell out of them with the price. As far as getting it back, you can either do it yourself....or you could get someone like JZM to help or I can put you in touch with people....or even help you source one as a fellow Porsche owner. You can get all the checks done here, overrev test etc. Anyways. Happy to answer any questions and help UK buyers....who it seems get raped when they want to buy a GT2 or 3 in the UK.!! Cheers.

And yes...even with the 20% VAT and 10% import duty...you are still better off. As long as you get a good deal over here off the asking...which you can.

Is this a 4.0? If so, you're right. That's about £100k, then it's a case of adding the taxes and shipping fees. It's whether you can get a European one for a better deal, i guess. http://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/porsche...

Pretty sure I wouldn't touch any performance car from Dubai with a bargepole. I recently spent a couple of years over there and witnessed frequent episodes of everything up to and including Veyrons being treated with absolutely no mechanical sympathy by the resident boy racers. Spent many nights being woken by the sound of a Lambo or Ferrari being revved to the limiter at the lights followed by some fairly inept attempts to demonstrate the car's performance envelope. About the only thing protecting the drivetrain would be the rev limiter and an auto box. The thought of buying a manual GT2 or GT3 would give me some real concerns.

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Randompunter74 said: Hi all, I thought I would let some of you chaps know about the market for GT3's and GT2's over here in Dubai. I am referring to pre 2014 models...the manual ones...how god intended us to drive. In short, prices here are dirt cheap and when I mean dirt cheap I mean 50% off the price. Bear in mind that JZM recently opened in Abu Dhabi and whilst that is partly because of servicing I believe that a massive pat of this is because Porsche's here are dirt cheap. Yes they are Left Hand Drive..but really, who gives a s t. All the decent cars are LHD anyway. Besides, having a left hooker means you can sell to the European market too and if you are going for an RS then you are prob using it for the track anyway. I come back to the UK every 3 months and have an Integrale there....oooooo its painful when I drive on the roads as it feels like the mounts are going to pop through the bonet. Crap roads. Anyway, keep an eye out on Dubizzle, which is the main site for cars. A major factor is that people here don't like manuals.....hilarious. As such, when you buy a manual car here you can literally low ball the hell out of them with the price. As far as getting it back, you can either do it yourself....or you could get someone like JZM to help or I can put you in touch with people....or even help you source one as a fellow Porsche owner. You can get all the checks done here, overrev test etc. Anyways. Happy to answer any questions and help UK buyers....who it seems get raped when they want to buy a GT2 or 3 in the UK.!! Cheers. Hi, when did you move over to Dubai? I was there from 2010-2014, own a GT3 which I bought in 2010 and moved it back to the UK with myself last year. Here is my friendly advice: I have to say with a totally unbiased viewpoint, and with the experience of having viewed countless GT3s and after looking out for and investigating many GT2s that it is a minefield to buy such a car in the Middle East. for me the key in finding a good car is all about understanding the previous owners, how they drove the car, how they looked after it, and also doing some independent investigation with the dealer network on mileage - all of which is more difficult the older the cars get, and the further you are from it (UK being quite far!). Many cars which look good on dubizzle are total dogs when viewed, or their owners are just boy racers with tax free salaries without a clue of how to drive these cars with mechanical sympathy. I have come across GT3s with undisclosed accident damage (one case I met the owner of a GT3 on a porsche club drive, asked him if he got a good deal on his 2nd hand GT3 because it had been in a track accident, to which the look of horror on his face was an unfortunate picture), clocked cars (one GT2 I imvestigated had 19k on the clock from Kuwait originally, I called Porsche Kuwait and they told me the milage was 27k on its last service a year previously!), cars which had not been serviced which had magically lost their service books, cars which had sat in outdoor car yards for months on end in the summer literally roasting, the list goes on. There are a few gems out there, usually cars owned by western expats, older gentleman who know how to drive and with the budgets to look after these cars beyond the monthly payment plans some of the younger chaps extend themselves to in order to get the car of their dreams. I found my car in Abu Dhabi after months of searching, owned by a 63 year old Brit who was a former single seater race driver. On the test drive his Rev matching and heel and toe put mine to shame, and he had renewed the Porsche warranty the week before. Car had full history and paperwork matched dealer records. He was only selling as his wife wouldn't drive it and so he bought something a bit more soft (TTRS). To be honest, I didn't see many more cars like this in the 4 further years I was there. I'd say that if you were to find a low mile car owned by a Porsche club member with warranty extended then that's a start, most of the cars on Dubizzle will be crap, and stay away from EVERYTHING you find in Al Aweer or any of the used car dealers in Dubai for that matter. The best cars will be 20-30% more than the Dubizzle dogs, and may not even be advertised for sale, but the right guys will know of the best cars for sale, as I said the Porsche club is prob the best way to find these cars, again something difficult to get involved with and network with if you live in the UK, Just my 2p, but the cheap cars over there are by and large cheap for a reason....

hondansx said: Is this a 4.0? If so, you're right. That's about £100k, then it's a case of adding the taxes and shipping fees. It's whether you can get a European one for a better deal, i guess. http://dubai.dubizzle.com/motors/used-cars/porsche... Hi, that is not a 4.0, it's a 3.8 RS. Ok so let's assume that's a good car. You need to engage a local business to actually buy the car on your behalf (unless you have a close contact you trust who can buy it on your behalf), so after fees to this local outfit etc let's say you have bought the car for £100k. Shipping to UK can be done for around £1,200 but this will be uninsured (and with one of the cheaper outfits). Say another £2k to insure it. This still won't cover scratches and small damage so budget for a few repairs. Then when received in the UK, you need a set of RHD xenons (say £1k second hand) and the wiring for fog light/IVA/MOT/etc let's call it another £700-£800 including towing etc. Thats with doing it all yourself, more if you value your own time and pulling of ones hair out. Want new light on your £100k GT3? You won't see change from £3k roughly. Next you have to consider duty and VAT, which are 10% and 20% respectively if I'm not mistaken as you are importing from outside of the EU. Let's say you get away with valuing on purchase price of £100k, so £30k in duty and tax. Where does that put this car? Around £135k. It will take you around 4-6 months from purchase to driving the car on the UK road (depending on your luck with shipping), after doing the upgrades to UK legal spec, IVA and then UK registration with DVLA. I shipped my car in early December and it was road legal in late March but I was on top of everything, didn't fail any tests or get any applications rejected. One mistake on the DVLA or IVA applications or test and you can put yourself 2-4 weeks back. There is a LHD GT3 3.8 RS at JZM for £120k already registered in the UK, why go through the hassle and risk? http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Edited by S1MMA on Wednesday 25th February 05:30

The costs are actually a bit worse than the example above, as duty is charged on the shipping costs too and VAT is applied to everything, including the duty. Car price £100,000 Shipping and insurance £2000 10% duty on both £10,200 Subtotal £112,200 20% VAT £22,440 Total £133,640

Lads, some notes: - The GT3 RS on Duizzle at the moment isnt good value. Its overpriced. Another similar one (But standard RS) was on Dubizzle a few months back for 320,000 AED (£56,000) I have checked it out, it was a good car. I bought another in the end though. To me, that would be worth the ballache in getting it back, but its up to the individual. - You will find that the standard GT3's are coniderably better priced. Gen 1 and |Gen 2 going from £38,000 to £60,000. Which is a s tload less than the UK. Lump in all the taxes and duties you want, you are still better off. - Like anything, you have to look for good ones, which is the same as anywhere in the world. As per mateys comment above, get one owned by a European...and they are the higher percentage which own them here. You can check servicing easily as you can for crash damage. - I have lived here about 10 years and bought a shedload of performance cars. Yes, lots are sheds and havent been well maintained, but many others are very good. At the end of the day you can simply send a car to someone like JZM, get it checked and then can ship it for you. Its easier for you chaps now the likes of them are here. Of course you could just bend right over the table and let the UK dealers ply open your wallet and take you for another 30-40k if you want! LOL I got my Gen 2 with 16,000kms for half price compared to a UK car at todays prices, thats all I am saying. Full history, expat owned etc etc. You have to look hard, but then again you do for any decent car. Besides, these cars love to be ragged, so its not the end of the world if they have. As long as they haven't got over revs and have been regularly serviced then all good. Cheers

And as per mateys note, if you want contacts in the clubs and chaps that know about cars that arent advertised then I have no issues helping anyone out as a fellow pistonhead.

I don't think its really correct to compare to UK RHD prices, you should be comparing to LHD prices on the continent. Again after duty and tax there will not be as much of a saving as you are making out. See mobile.de to compare. Looks like you got a good deal on your car, but without being on the ground I can't see how someone on another continent will easily be able to get the good cars fast before the expats and locals already based there. It's kind of you to offer to help other pistonhead members, commend you for that but I still don't think the savings will be that substantial if at all over LHD German registered cars. Also another factor is that a German LHD has a certificate of conformity, which Gulf cars do not. One benefit of a Gulf car in the UK is cheap car tax, I only pay £230 odd for my 997 GT3!

Randompunter74 said: - I have lived here about 10 years and bought a shedload of performance cars. Yes, lots are sheds and havent been well maintained, but many others are very good. Nice one, Luke. You've reactivated my dubizzle addiction, you git. One of the great joys of living in Dubai was sweltering afternoons spent cruising the Al Quoz industrial district looking for welding shop/leather trimmer/AC repairman/etc. I once walked into a dealer with no intention to buy and he threw me the keys to a cosmetically tatty Ferrari. Half an hour later we shook hands for an unfeasibly cheap amount and I came home in a Swaters Blue Tubi'd 550 Maranello to a b king from the wife. I'd only popped out for some milk. I had the whole thing stripped down and repainted for a fraction of the UK cost. Many UK body shops would have been put to shame. At the end of an 11 week process, I had a showroom fresh 12 cylinder supercar, enjoyed it for a year then sold it for a profit. I think I would never have learned to race had I not lived there. Despite all you read about straight roads and mechanically unsympathetic locals, it's a petrolhead's paradise. I find club racing in the UK to be massively expensive and a logistical ball ache. Sorry for the nostalgic ramblings. Back on topic, the Porsche Club UAE is (was) very well run and many of the club members are genuine enthusiasts and racers. Good place to get feedback on hidden histories.

Harris_I said: Randompunter74 said: - I have lived here about 10 years and bought a shedload of performance cars. Yes, lots are sheds and havent been well maintained, but many others are very good. Nice one, Luke. You've reactivated my dubizzle addiction, you git. One of the great joys of living in Dubai was sweltering afternoons spent cruising the Al Quoz industrial district looking for welding shop/leather trimmer/AC repairman/etc. I once walked into a dealer with no intention to buy and he threw me the keys to a cosmetically tatty Ferrari. Half an hour later we shook hands for an unfeasibly cheap amount and I came home in a Swaters Blue Tubi'd 550 Maranello to a b king from the wife. I'd only popped out for some milk. I had the whole thing stripped down and repainted for a fraction of the UK cost. Many UK body shops would have been put to shame. At the end of an 11 week process, I had a showroom fresh 12 cylinder supercar, enjoyed it for a year then sold it for a profit. I think I would never have learned to race had I not lived there. Despite all you read about straight roads and mechanically unsympathetic locals, it's a petrolhead's paradise. I find club racing in the UK to be massively expensive and a logistical ball ache. Sorry for the nostalgic ramblings. Back on topic, the Porsche Club UAE is (was) very well run and many of the club members are genuine enthusiasts and racers. Good place to get feedback on hidden histories. I'm out here at the mo. Is there anywhere one can hire car and visit the track?

Dubai Autodrome does arrive and drive. They used to have a fleet of Audis, Subarus and single-seaters. Not sure what they have now. Yas Marina is 45 minutes up the road - they used to have Aston GT4s, Radicals, single-seaters and various Renaults. The Dubai track is a lot more interesting than the F1 circuit, BTW.

Thanks will have to nip down there!

I'm in Dubai myself. Recently picked up a nice manual 2001 996 Turbo as they are fantastic value compared to Europe, US and UK. There are lots of good cars out there that have been looked after, but as has been said, there are many dogs. The key, in my experience, is to get the car inspected and to check the history. Alex Renner Motors is reportedly the best workshop out here. Another consideration is spec. Most in the UK seem to favour dark interiors. Over here, many are spec'd with loud colour interiors and I've not seen many ClubSport interiors, more comfort. I'd have thought with the exchange rate and duties that unless you find an absolute bargain you'll struggle to make any significant savings. Some Porsche cars are more valuable in Europe than UK, so there may be an angle, but again, the exchange rate is against you for now. For those that live here I think they avoid duties when they return to live in the UK and bring the car with them. For these people it makes complete sense to bring a car home with them.

Indeed I brought two back with me. I also sold my 2003 996 turbo to a French buyer in 2012 for the equivalent of around £21-22k before shipping and duty.

991 gt3 look well priced?

ro51ter said: 991 gt3 look well priced? Put your 30% on top for duty and vat, Stick £7k on top for shipping and registration inc lights, then compare to mobile.de. Let me know the difference I'm genuinely interested. The exchange rate isn't great at the moment at 5.6 or 5.7 to 1 gbp. At 7 to 1 we would be talking, but not below 6.

Looks to me the 911 gt3 prices over there are going down not up, one to watch?? Switzerland is also a good place to look for low mileage cars. Let's hope the pound goes in the right direction

Interesting topic.... I have been exporting cars from Dubai to the trade in Europe for around 8 years, mainly selling to dealers in France, Germany & the UK. In the main older Porsche & Ferraris work out as best value although there are some more modern models that will work. The Euro exchange rate is a problem just now as it is 25% down on previous levels, which takes most of the profit out of a Euro sale. In regards to the various comments regarding cars being wrecked by young drivers with too much money and Porsche Club being the place to buy..... Generally most of the GT2, GT3 & Turbo cars from Porsche Club members are heavily tracked and whilst well maintained they are not necessarily well driven so it wouldn't be my first choice of places to buy, in 8 years I think i have bought 2 cars from Porsche Club people. There are a huge number of people who come for three years buy these cars as they could never afford them back home, drive them sensibly on the roads and never track them and then sell them off when they leave, these cars provide a great source of good value cars. There are some cars used hard by the young and rich, some crashed & repaired on the cheap, which obviously need avoiding but there are no where near as many of these as suggested. In terms of dealers most used car outfits in UAE are not experts, they move lots of cars at sensible prices and don't really care about condition that much as long as they can sell at a reasonable profit. If you war to buy form a dealer in UAE there is a Brit guy called Brett running Reem Automobiles who is trustworthy and has a constant supply of nice modern Porsches including GT2/3s, he is also well connected and can source older cars through the independent workshops, I have bought several cars through him. Nader at Top Line Motors also has some nice older cars, but has got somewhat greedy on price recently. For maintenance Al Nabooda & Ali & Sons are the Main Dealer's and cars looked after by them are well maintained and both dealers are very active with the Porsche warranty program so you'll often find cars with extended warranty. In the independent network Alex at ARM is a pedantic German who likes to charge his customers top dollar for maintaining their cars so cars maintained by him are normally in good order, House of Cars & A2B Garage have small but good Porsche workshops maintaining cars to good levels at sensible money, JZM in Abu Dhabi are new and trying to create a name for themselves, any of them could provide a competent condition report, although the cost of a report will vary widely. Used car trade licenses are hard to come by in the UAE so none of the independents sell cars legally but will always have customers who will be selling. If you are looking for a car 10 years old or older, the process is far simpler as there is no CoC or SVA style testing to register the car, you just import it, MOT it, get the NOVA approval and send the paperwork to DVLA, all of which is easy enough for an individual to undertake. For a newer car it can be a pain, ask Harris I how long it took him to get his GT3 registered I would say there are still plenty of good deals to be had in UAE, including the 991 GT3 which is now dropping in price, but you need to deal with trustworthy people, of which there are a limited number

NAS90 said: For a newer car it can be a pain, ask Harris I how long it took him to get his GT3 registered I'm having a flashback. 5 months of shouting and swearing. To be fair, that was a heavily modded vehicle.

Some of the generalisations being made here are rather disappointing, such as "buy cars owned by Europeans":-0 I also find this somewhat ironic given the number of threads we see here of dodgy cars being sold through the dealer network in the UK. I've been living in Dubai for 10 years, bought my RS's (and most other cars) from a "locals" and have had no issues with any of my purchases. Maybe I've just been lucky.

Good post Nas90. I had 10 years in Dubai and ran 997 2S, GT3 (from Al Reem) & finally my GT2 (through Alex Renner). Always used Al-Naboodah for official sevice and then Alex Renner for anything else. The generalisation of driving, quality, etc... of Dubai cars is a little disappointing and all cars should be bought on history & condition. I brought the car back to the UK last year due to very different economics. This being no import duty or tax (I had owned it for long enough in Dubai before importing) and company paid the shipping cost (it went with household stuff), in addition the sale price in Dubai at the time would have only given me around £60k. Overall a no brainier! The import & SVA & reg process was relatively easy and cost effective. I now have LHD 997 GT2 to drive, with full history. A nice car which I have owned for 5 years that was definitely worth bringing back. Anyone in similar situation should not hesitate. Edited by am0611 on Thursday 26th February 11:45 Edited by am0611 on Thursday 26th February 11:46

am0611 said: Good post Nas90. I had 10 years in Dubai and ran 997 2S, GT3 (from Al Reem) & finally my GT2 (through Alex Renner). Always used Al-Naboodah for official sevice and then Alex Renner for anything else. The generalisation of driving, quality, etc... of Dubai cars is a little disappointing and all cars should be bought on history & condition. I brought the car back to the UK last year due to very different economics. This being no import duty or tax (I had owned it for long enough in Dubai before importing) and company paid the shipping cost (it went with household stuff), in addition the sale price in Dubai at the time would have only given me around £60k. Overall a no brainier! The import & SVA & reg process was relatively easy and cost effective. I now have LHD 997 GT2 to drive, with full history. A nice car which I have owned for 5 years that was definitely worth bringing back. Anyone in similar situation should not hesitate. Edited by am0611 on Thursday 26th February 11:45 Edited by am0611 on Thursday 26th February 11:46 hmmm how long do you have to own a car out here before you can bring it back duty free?

You have to be resident of Dubai and own it for 6 months (I think) & then you are not allowed to sell in UK for 12 months from date of import (not registration) that appears on letter from HMRC/customs and when registered it is also on V5C.

Liquid1 said: Some of the generalisations being made here are rather disappointing, such as "buy cars owned by Europeans":-0 I also find this somewhat ironic given the number of threads we see here of dodgy cars being sold through the dealer network in the UK. I've been living in Dubai for 10 years, bought my RS's (and most other cars) from a "locals" and have had no issues with any of my purchases. Maybe I've just been lucky. Don't fret, they have just been watching a bit too much 'Saudi Drift' residential crash/burnout videos on Youtube.

Carl_Docklands said: Don't fret, they have just been watching a bit too much 'Saudi Drift' residential crash/burnout videos on Youtube. That's not drifting. It's actually the road test before handing the car back to the customer after a service.