981 or 987s - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Currently have a 2.9L Cayman and i'm in the market for a new car in the new year. really like my current car, so thinking with the budget i have in mind, do i go for a 981 2.7 or a 987 Gen II Cayman S ?? opinions please

Not a straightforward decision. The 981 2.7 is a gorgeous engine but does lack the torque to fill those crazily long gears. The platform is even more solid and neutral than the 987, so it's both terrifically capable and confidence inspiring. It's also a bit dull, especially when you combine the fairly weak engine with very big tyres (which is now the norm). Both lovely cars. The 981 is more comfortable and refined.

I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!!

FrankCayman said: I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!! how different is the old 2.9 to the new 2.7 on the road (normal use) ?

Drive both, buy the one you like. It's quite simples :-)

FrankCayman said: I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!! I never noticed that at all. I kept reading about it and thinking 'Are my ears broken?'

rObArtes said: how different is the old 2.9 to the new 2.7 on the road (normal use) ? I didn't notice any difference in performance ...I personally find the 981 gives the same amount of driver enjoyment but with more refinement, better ride over the rubbish UK roads.....much prefer the sound of my 2.7 too ...which doesn't have PSE. Cabin is a huge improvement. It just feels a more complete and coherent design....I always felt the 987 Cayman had the roof grafted on the Boxster as an after thought, hence the need to have acoustic weights hidden in the rear hatch to sort out the weird cabin pressure issue. All my Porsches owned have been my only car and daily drives that cover approx. 25 - 30K per year. Perhaps if it were a weekend car, the smaller, slightly more analog feel of the 987 may appeal. But please don't listen to anybody who says the 981 has gone too 'Audi'...that's just rubbish! Purely my thoughts that probably won't be shared by many on here!

ORD said: FrankCayman said: I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!! I never noticed that at all. I kept reading about it and thinking 'Are my ears broken?' I did get used to it after a few months....but even friends would get in and say it felt like they were in a car with the window down slightly...if that makes sense?!

If I had this choice, i'd definitely go for the 981. You'd have to drive the 2.7 to comment on whether it has enough torque or power for you. But having to work the engine harder in higher revs isn't a bad thing in my mind, means you get to hear the lovely engine more, especially with PSE, and also more involved driving, with less chance of losing your license. Personally I prefer the styling, the 981 looks more aggressive, I prefer the deeper side scoops. And as far as connectivity for audio etc, the 981 is going to win hands down.

FrankCayman said: I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!! That 'ear buffeting' is the most irritating thing about my 987.2 2.9.

DarkMatter said: That 'ear buffeting' is the most irritating thing about my 987.2 2.9. Phew....glad you notice it too! I first noticed it when I had a gen 1 Cayman loaner when my then Boxster 2.7 gen 1 went in for a service. I still bought a Cayman gen 2 at a later date...managed to reduce the effect by fiddling around with the rubber bump stops on the hatch...but never truly eradicated the issue.

I forgot to mention control weights and feel. The brakes and steering in the 987 are notably better. Steering feel is goodish in the 987 and barely there in the 981. 987 brakes are lovely. 981 brakes are strong but getting towards Audi-like assistance and lack of feel. Not sure why.

Having test driven the 987 2.9 last year and having bought a TTS in preference due to cabin ambiance and space, I found the TTS too torquey and peaky so tried a 981 2.7 PDK after reading countless reviews of that and the 3.4 S 981. I drove a 981 3.4S too, around town and on the motorway and couldn't find any real life advantage for a DD other than mid range acceleration which would more easily get me into trouble. As you've no doubt read the 2.7 engine in the 981 is lively and it's the NOISE that makes up 50% of the driving pleasure for me. You get more of this with the 2.7 due to using its revs more. As for manual gearing being too long in the 981 2.7, buy a PDK! I've used my PDK far more in manual mode than in my S-Tronic TTS as you can really rev the engine, plus you get throttle blip down shifts with the PDK even in normal mode (as opposed to "Sport"). My favourite "chance" bit of spec on my 2014 used Cayman is PASM. It wasn't on my "hit list" of spec but it is sublime in operation, smoothing out the crashiness you DO get with standard suspension. Well, to be fair, that's no worse than my TTS but PASM would be near the top of my spec list next time. Not that common on a base car if buying used however. Go try both. Try them in manual and PDK. Take your time. Go back and try them again if uncertain. I take it by "new" you mean used?If so, use the OPCs and don't feel guilty you may not buy from them. They'll be keen to have the chance to sell you a car. I found the three I went to very helpful and obliging.

Personally I'd avoid PDK - there's plenty of time left to flap at paddles and not much left of manual gear boxes.

FrankCayman said: I went from a 987 2.9 to a 981 2.7.....love it ...if you're tall it has more room inside...and you don't get that weird 'ear buffeting' from the old Cayman cabin - always amazed people don't moan about that design flaw more!!! I thought that was a well known and easy fix? Its just an adjustment of the hatch isnt it?

TB303 said: Personally I'd avoid PDK - there's plenty of time left to flap at paddles and not much left of manual gear boxes. PDK is as good as a manual as a manual, even dropping two gears faster PLUS you can "lazy drive" too. Godsend when crawling behind a motorway pile up. Or... get much bigger left leg muscles from that heavy clutch... OP will no doubt find all the "Manual vs. PDK" threads so lets not get into that... or shall we...?

DJMC said: PDK is as good as a manual as a manual, even dropping two gears faster PLUS you can "lazy drive" too. Godsend when crawling behind a motorway pile up. Or... get much bigger left leg muscles from that heavy clutch... OP will no doubt find all the "Manual vs. PDK" threads so lets not get into that... or shall we...? I'm not proposing we do, I'm just voicing my opinion.

TB303 said: I'm not proposing we do, I'm just voicing my opinion. Understood. No worries. Strangely, I've been using the PDK gear lever much more than the paddles. I had a manual Boxster on loan whilst cruise was fitted a few weeks ago and did enjoy revving it. So I tried to emulate the feeling in my PDK the next day with just the gear lever. Far better - no crunched gears, no fluffed take-offs from rest, no leg ache, one finger gear changing, plus the down shift blips.

DJMC said: Understood. No worries. Strangely, I've been using the PDK gear lever much more than the paddles. I had a manual Boxster on loan whilst cruise was fitted a few weeks ago and did enjoy revving it. So I tried to emulate the feeling in my PDK the next day with just the gear lever. Far better - no crunched gears, no fluffed take-offs from rest, no leg ache, one finger gear changing, plus the down shift blips. Both systems have their merits - PDK is going to be more efficient/slick for most people, let's face it. Driving daily in London or for ultimate track times PDK probably makes a lot of sense.

anonymous said: [redacted] I ok...not rubbish....I simply don't agree with it! Is that ok?

anonymous said: [redacted] Think they all have it, hence why they all have the 'bodge' of acoustic weights springing around in the rear hatch....some people may not notice/ears are not effected/have a better tolerance of it...but it's there in them all to some degree (well the 8 or so Cayman 987's I drove in my time). After 80K in the thing, I simply learnt to 'tune it out' and live with it over time....

DJMC said: TB303 said: Personally I'd avoid PDK - there's plenty of time left to flap at paddles and not much left of manual gear boxes. PDK is as good as a manual as a manual, even dropping two gears faster PLUS you can "lazy drive" too. Godsend when crawling behind a motorway pile up. Or... get much bigger left leg muscles from that heavy clutch... OP will no doubt find all the "Manual vs. PDK" threads so lets not get into that... or shall we...? will be manual or me, all the way. my brother has a 997 Gen II with PDK and its not for me yet.

rObArtes said: will be manual or me, all the way. my brother has a 997 Gen II with PDK and its not for me yet. Yep, manual for me too....

mollytherocker said: I thought that was a well known and easy fix? Its just an adjustment of the hatch isnt it? Well....my OPC tried and failed to fix it admitting there really wasn't a lot they can do....and EVERY 987 Cayman I have driven (probably 8) has had it.... You can minimise the effect by fiddling with the rubber bump stops, but that's it. Edited by FrankCayman on Wednesday 2nd December 07:55

anonymous said: [redacted] Unfortunately we mentioned it once and didn't get away with it.

FrankCayman said: anonymous said: [redacted] I ok...not rubbish....I simply don't agree with it! Is that ok? What, specifically, do you not agree with? Do you disagree that the brakes are more assisted than in the 987? Do you disagree that they have less feel? I expect that you in fact agree that they have more assistance and less feel, but that it doesnt bother you. I doubt it bothers more than a minority of potential buyers. They arent AS bad as Audi brakes, of course - the reference to Audi is just to get across that they have moved in that direction.

I'm going to drive my Spyder and see how the brakes are today. There is definitely the grabby snap of a servo when you touch the brakes. The 987's brakes are more progressive and don't have that artificial initial bite. I would definitely prefer the progressiveness of the older car, but it's not something enough to put me off the 981. I can't truly comment on overall feel yet, but I didn't notice them to be lacking.

ORD said: What, specifically, do you not agree with? Do you disagree that the brakes are more assisted than in the 987? Do you disagree that they have less feel? I expect that you in fact agree that they have more assistance and less feel, but that it doesnt bother you. I doubt it bothers more than a minority of potential buyers. They arent AS bad as Audi brakes, of course - the reference to Audi is just to get across that they have moved in that direction. Yes, I think you're pretty much hit the nail on the head! To be honest, I wasn't really being that specific...I was simply saying that I don't agree the 981 has become too much like an Audi.....if people think the 981 is too much like an Audi and has lost feel etc. that's no problem for me...simply keep a 987. Edited by FrankCayman on Wednesday 2nd December 13:49

anonymous said: [redacted] Yep, we all have different priorities when choosing cars....as whole, I find the extra refinement of the 981 and perhaps my own 'issue' with the cabin acoustics of the 987 has been rectified in the 981....so I am a happy chap!

OP...I had a very long test drive in a Cayman 2.7 987.2 and thought it was fantastic couldn't fault the car at all and would have been very happy owning one, but I ended up buying a 3.4 S 987.2 and to put it simply it's just better everywhere than the 2.7 it's so good. Now I did have a go in a 3.4 S 981 for a day or two and it was very nice indeed when I got back in my 987 it seemed sharper plus the steering and brakes had a much better feel. My suggestion would be to look long and hard for a mint low miles Cayman 987.2 S or if your budget can stretch to an R then one of them. You need to go and drive both versions of each model then you will know for sure which is best for you....good luck I hope you end up with a great car.

ORD said: What, specifically, do you not agree with? Do you disagree that the brakes are more assisted than in the 987? Do you disagree that they have less feel? I expect that you in fact agree that they have more assistance and less feel, but that it doesnt bother you. I doubt it bothers more than a minority of potential buyers. They arent AS bad as Audi brakes, of course - the reference to Audi is just to get across that they have moved in that direction. There is nothing wrong with the feel and progression of the 981 brakes IMO. What's wrong for manual drivers (and as moose and others have said of the 987 too) the brakes are too light and have too much travel - which is only an issue if you heel and toe. 981 brakes are absolutely fine with PDK. I'm afraid the term "audified" has become a generic 8 letter word of abuse (which has no more real meaning than the 4 letter ones - or the 6 letter one "diesel"). The brakes on every car I have driven in recent times with a servo have had too much travel and are too light - for easy heel and toeing, it's not specifically an Audi issue and it's not new. In days gone by peak braking effort typically meant 100lbs pedal pressure or more - now I suspect it's half that.

audi comment is valid, they have terrible overservoed snatchy brakes

anonymous said: [redacted] Drive a Caterham then, when you want real interaction - I do! Different league steering, different league brake feel, different league agility, different league practicality. I'll ignore the Audi thing it's brand prejudice when most the rest of the industry is going the same way. It's only a valid shorthand for those with the same anti Audi prejudices (and no I don't work for Audi, have never owned one - but don't see why they should be targeted).

Hmmm...perhaps the OP should consider an Audi TT too?!

alcatraz236 said: audi comment is valid, they have terrible overservoed snatchy brakes So have loads of others - which is exactly my point! Overservoed the 981 ones? I'd agree. Snatchy? - at least the steel (OK cast iron) ones I'd disagree. Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 2nd December 20:10

anonymous said: [redacted] my 2.9 Cayman is now 6 1/2 years old with 46k miles on it. just thought it's a good time to move it on. is it worth keeping hold of?

anonymous said: [redacted] Huh? Surely you don't mean me? Noooo......how hurtful! My car is THE best!!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yep, Cmoose has a point. My 2.9 had 85K, was coming out of warranty plus I loved the look of the 981......if you like what you have, don't change...there's plenty of life in it!

anonymous said: [redacted] As usual your ability to read what is written lets you down. Please read it again.

Coming from a 2012 TTS straight into my 2014 base Cayman PDK I'm somewhat qualified to discuss brake differences. TTS brakes were overly powerful, too much grab for too little pressure and pedal travel. Cayman's brakes are more progressive, more pedal travel, more pressure needed. I have no criticism of the 981 brakes in comparison to the TTS'. They are rather different from each other. I do wish Porsche would Audify the Cayman's front wheels jumping at full lock and low speed though. How did that ever get through testing?

The brakes on my 997 are even longer travel than those on my old 987 (it seems), but they are more linear and so I prefer them. They are firm enough if you stand on them and fine for h&t. I don't mind a longish brake for h&t - you just need decent resistance towards the bottom of the travel and not too much assistance. In my experience, what makes h&t very difficult is brakes that respond in a very non-linear way and/or are simply too sensitive. I think I always press slightly harder on the brake than I intend when I shift to the throttle. I am sure that more skilled drivers avoid this, but it's quite a fine motor skill not to increase the pressure a bit (at least sometimes). I think people refer to Audi for things like this because it was in an Audi that they first thought 'What the f k are these brakes?!'. The reality is that most people love an over-servoed brake pedal because, save in an emergency stop, they never use more than 20% of the travel (just like the throttle and rev range). It always takes me a while to get used to brakes that give you almost all of what they have in the first couple of inches of travel and respond to more pressure with 'You want more?! No can do'. Never actually had any problem stopping, but have had a few moments of thinking that the brakes were f ked. I think I brake quite hard, but I think the Porsche brakes last longer with firm braking than with pissing about. One problem with over-servoed brakes is that, for me at least, they don't inspire confidence so I end up braking earlier and more gently because I don't trust them to respond predictably to the inputs.

rObArtes said: my 2.9 Cayman is now 6 1/2 years old with 46k miles on it. just thought it's a good time to move it on. is it worth keeping hold of? have you driven both yet ? if you want me to tell you what to buy, buy that private R which is for sale at £39k from a PH member here.

DJMC said: I do wish Porsche would Audify the Cayman's front wheels jumping at full lock and low speed though. How did that ever get through testing? That is one of the downsides of owning a car that has a decent suspension set up as opposed to a more mainstream, appease Joe public offering. It's a very small price to pay and is only noticeable during colder weather.

Trev450 said: That is one of the downsides of owning a car that has a decent suspension set up as opposed to a more mainstream, appease Joe public offering. It's a very small price to pay and is only noticeable during colder weather. Are you sure it's not just a case of not following true Ackermann to limit wheelarch intrusion and therefore allow decent footroom? The 981 has a lot of lock for a mid-engined car, but surprisingly little wheelarch intrusion.

I reckon the Audi brakes reference is understood by most. Mind you, they are nothing compared to Volvos set up. They are ridiculous and bordering on dangerous!