Totally P***** Off with new '02 996

After years of Mercedes ownership and a lifelong love of the 911 I am seriously regretting buying this car. Day 2 of ownership found me roadside at midnight completely out of gas despite the computer and fuel gauge showing that I had 64 miles and 1/4 tank of gas respectively (previous post). Dealer wanted the car back to fix but I was headed to Europe for a week and didn't want my car sitting with them for that long so I booked it in for this week. Well, I got back from my trip after 8 days away and the remote wouldn't open the door. So, I used the key and the car alarm went off. Apparently this is 'normal'. I must have had 20 cars with a remote opener over the past 15 years and this is the first I've heard of a car shutting the system down after a few days to save battery. Anyway, I got in, turned off the alarm, car wouldn't start. Tried everything, called the dealer, cycled the locks, you name it. The remote was now working however and would unlock and lock the doors/trunk. However the engine wouldn't start and given the full battery my best guess is the immobilizer wouldn't allow access. After 9 hours on a flight from Europe my only option was to take a $110 taxi ride home. Dealer says that something must have happened to the chip in the key and the car's not recognizing the code. Totally brassed off as I have had zero problems of any kind in the past 5 years of Mercedes ownership and I have to put up with this nonsense in the first couple of weeks of owning a Porsche. I'm really looking forward to getting back from my next business trip at midnight on a Friday night not knowing if my car's going to a) start and b) if it does, am I going to run out of gas.

I can't comment on all your problems, but the manual clearly states that the remote unlocking system cycles off if it is not used for 5 days to save the battery.

Hi Speed.. Yeah I read that too and I'm not sure why Porsche is the only car manufacturer that I personally know of that needs to do this. So it seems that the only option to enter an $85,000 car after it standing in the garage for a week is with the accompanying car alarm!!

This is quite strange, never happen to me . Let's work the guarantee. So maybe if your'not so happy, perhaps will be better to get back to MB. ....

Ortello: Sorry to hear about your bad lucks, we had a 1984 928S with 135,000 miles,then it started development lots of problems, so we sold it and got a 2002 Carrera C2 coupe. Now 6,000 miles and still not a single problem (knocking on wood * * ) Hope your dealer can resolve your problem once and for all <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Bocky '02 Carrera C2 coupe BTW, we also had very few problems with my daily drivers: 1981 BMW 320i 350,000 miles (except clutch master cylinders!!!)Gift to charity 1984 Porsche 928S 135,000 miles then major brake problems developed (sold) 1984 MB 300SD 245,000 miles then blew a head gasket (sold) 1992 BMW 525i 168,000 miles currently and still going strong as a daily driver. I guess it is the luck of the draw <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> German cars are meant to driven hard.

Somebody said somewhere in some post at one time that "Always carry both your keys with you." Agree it's a PIA to do so, but I've gotten into the habit.

I like the feature that reduces power consumption after 5 days. I am a former 964 owner who had to buy a lot of batteries because that car would just run the battery down to a point where that battery itself would even fail. I suspect that Porsche has more of a problem with infrequent use than other marques. I had the same experience with setting off the alarm on my '02 the first time I unlocked the car with key. Now that I know what is happening it really isn't a problem. Anytime you make a major change like from a MB to a Porsche it takes a while to aclaimate to the new features. Now if I could just figure out how to work this d*mn new cell phone of mine...

Sorry to hear about you pains. I understand why the alarm gose into lockdown mode (Must use key ) I too had flat batterys in the past. Question: Did you walk through an airport Xray with your keys? That might zap the chip.

[quote]I like the feature that reduces power consumption after 5 days. I am a former 964 owner who had to buy a lot of batteries because that car would just run the battery down to a point where that battery itself would even fail. I suspect that Porsche has more of a problem with infrequent use than other marques. I had the same experience with setting off the alarm on my '02 the first time I unlocked the car with key. Now that I know what is happening it really isn't a problem. Anytime you make a major change like from a MB to a Porsche it takes a while to aclaimate to the new features.<hr></blockquote> Exact ditto for me. I had a 93 C2 that would devour a battery every winter during storage. After I set the alarm off on my 02 C4S after not driving the car for a week, I thought "what the hell?". So I sat down, read the manual, and then said, "ahhh...somebody's thinking over there at Porsche." The result.....I have a corallary incentive to drive the car more often and it has been bulletproof through 3000 miles. Lastly, my daily driver is a MB E430 Sport and for the first couple of months of ownership, it was back at the dealer no less than 5 times to fix a chip problem and a series of bad ABS sensors. I nearly lost my enthusiasm for the car, but I was patient and the dealer treated me right during the whole affair. The problem was remedied and it has been a fabulous ride ever since. Hang tough, Othello, your experience is not exclusive to the Porsche brand (fortunately or unfortunately), however, I believe relief is in sight.

Sorry for your issues. I have not had those problems with my 00 Cab that I parked at the airport all the time. In addition, I have not had that problem with my TT that sits in the garage, sometimes for weeks, without any use?? I have not have that problem with my new 02 Cab (replaced the 00 Cab), however, I have not left it at the airport yet. When it's in the garage I leave it unlocked... I'm sure they can fix that for you... Roy

I recently purchased a 911 targa. The dealer specifically mentioned that the 996 drains the battery aftre a few days that it sits idle. He recommended that I buy a charger to plug in when I leave on long trips to ensure that the battery does not run out.

I have an appointment with my MB salesman on Friday and will be ridding myself of my 2001 c2 cab due to oil leaks, new engine replacement required, dust particles in the paint, broken seat heater, rattles, etc, etc. and PCNA not giving a ****. I have had and continue to have MB's and BMW's and can rely on them year after year. My next car will be the SL500. To be fair, the 996 is fun to drive but is too high maintenance for me. For those of you willing to deal with it, I can understand your passion for P-cars.

Looks like you need to know your car a little better, Othello. The Porsche is not like the MB (thank goodness), and each have their own quirks. Sorry to see that the features of the Porsche inconvenienced you, but these are features I find usefull and innovative.

Othello, Sorry about your problems, but I make a habit of reading my owners manual cover to cover after taking delivery. If I have questions on anything I still have time to go back to the dealer, while my salesperson is waiting to receive my excellent rating, to get answers to some of the more complex aspects of Porsche ownership. The cycling of the battery, key usage, and alarm system are issues I went back for additional explanation. Certainly this car isn't as turn key as a Mercedes or BMW, but both of those brands are becoming more complex too. Take a look at the new 745i! Owning my 02 C4S is awesome, and even more so since blowing the doors off of my wife's M-Coupe last night. She swore I went over the 4200 rev limit during break-in as she hit the rev limiter trying to keep up! Just fast shifting and lots of torque!

Wilson: sorry to hear you're going for the SL500 instead of trading yours in for a newer P-car. I still have my name on the waiting list, which I was told is 12 months at the moment. I switched to the P-car from the SL. I drove MB for 14 years and, except for the ML which was trouble in its 1st production year, I've had zero problems with them. Now with my new Targa, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

Everybody (Except Palting, I'll get to you ) Thanks for all of the responses. The car has been with my dealer all day and they tracked the problem to a faulty relay. Apparently, something had happened to cause the car to not know that the clutch was depressed pre-start. They've also fixed the fuel gauge. Should get her back tomorrow. Now, Palting, in my opinion, you don't pay this much money for a car and expect quirks that leave you stranded. I have read the manual from cover to cover and there's nothing in the manual that suggests for a moment that a relay will fail 50 miles from home or that the fuel gauge will be off to the point where you run out of gas at midnight (except the part about disconnecting the battery with less than a 1/3 tank). I'm not sure if you've owned a M-B but having owned over $400,000 worth over the past 4 years and expecting an SL55 AMG within a few months which will increase my investment by a further $150,000 you better believe that I am confident in their ability to deliver on their promises and have become accustomed to a certain standard that is very sadly lacking in my 996. So I'm not sure why you say thank goodness. What you call a 'feature' in my mind is a shortcut to not fixing a major fault. Why can Kia build an $8000 car that doesn't drain the battery after a week or so but Porsche can't? To design a work-around that cuts the systems off requiring an owner to set the car alarm off is a path that no other manufacturer seems to take.

I'm confused. I've left my car for a month or two at a time, all I have to do is unlock the door with the key. No alarm goes off.

Yep, same here. My car has probably going into battery save mode twice a month since I've had it (nearly two years) and I've never had any battery problems whatsoever. Each time I just had to unlock it with the key and everything was fine.

Same here-alarm never came on if open manually. Regards. Mike

Othello, Glad to hear they found the culprit, and that it just wasn't a RTFM thing . No, I have never owned an MB. Not that i've never driven one. My father's car that I was finally "priviledged" to drive was one of a long line of MB's. Although I had almost exclusive use of it through college since he got another one, I don't really consider it a car I have owned. My brother had 3 MBs but sold one. My brother in-law has an MB. My uncle on my mothers side has an MB. Their daughter, my cousin has an MB. My business partner has 2 MBs. Half of the people in my neighborhood have MBs. No, I would never own an MB. "I'm not sure if you've owned a M-B but having owned over $400,000 worth over the past 4 years and expecting an SL55 AMG within a few months which will increase my investment by a further $150,000 you better believe that I am confident in their ability to deliver on their promises and have become accustomed to a certain standard that is very sadly lacking in my 996". I am happy that you have found a marque that you like. I think the problem is that you bought a Porsche expecting it to be an MB. It would be like me buying an MB expecting it to be a Porsche. I know I would definitely be sorely disappointed, if not p####d off . BTW, I have had an incident with the locks on my Porsche. I had just gotten off the track, parked the car, popped the engine cover to cool it off, then locked the car with the remote. The car beeped, as expected with the cover open, but locked the doors. Came back about 40 minutes later, closed the cover, but could not unlock with the remote. Just as the manual said, I unlocked the car with the key, placed the key in the ignition, and went on my merry way .

No problems at 5300 miles. My wife's MB has had several problems with the mirrors, center electrical console that controls the windows and mirrors, and the driver's mirror motor keeps going out of alignment. Not major stuff at all but not expected on a MB...or so I thought. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

I haven't had the alarm problem you describe and my car shuts off every week as I drive it only on the weekend...just unlock with the key, no alarm. And personally, I never drive the car much under a 1/4 tank if I can help...who knows what crud might be floating in there? Having owned a couple of Mercedes over the years I would say that they are hardly trouble free. My most recent one was an early 5-speed SLK which gave me a number of problems. Several stints with the check engine light, supercharger hose blew off, a rattle in the exhaust that took three days to fix and a gear shift which was far vaguer than any in a Ford Ranger. Personally, I find it interesting that you can even compare the SL to a 911. I'd admit that the 911 has gone a bit soft over the years, and I've yet to drive the current generation SL, but they are clearly very different cars in terms of what they are trying to achieve. To me, having first started to drive in the early seventies, the reliability of these cars (all cars) is astonishing, these minor irritations are just that...minor (although admittedly your particular circumstances amplified them a bit). If hassle-free driving is the most important thing to you, perhaps you might be better off elsewhere (although I've found over the years that Porsches are by far the most reliable european sports car available), but I put a premium on performance, and doubt I'd be happy autocrossing in any SL ( excpet maybe a 190).

If you think about it, alot of Porsches do sit for extended periods so the battery saving is not a bad idea. I also heard it had somehting to do with the way the system code jumps for security.. but not sure if its true. As for the fuel problem, there is a known problem with removing the battery with the tank at less than 1/2 and it loosing track of position. The dealer may have inadvertantly done this.. but they should have known better. If thats all the problems you have... be happy. There are plenty of people driving everything from Fords to BMWs and Hyundais to Porsches that have cars catch on fire or lose trannies or wheels or whatever because of manufacturnig defects or assembly problems. I don't believe Porsches is any worse, we just hold them to a higher standard.

Sounds like the chip in his key is not functional. There have been posts regarding the fuel gauge. The gauge was faulty and the entire instrument cluster was replaced. End of problem.

Othello, let us know if your problem is really fixed. Good luck!!! Porsche's are like any other car, some get delivered with defects. When you're paying as much as we have they shouldn't ; but they do. I'm on my 5th Porsche and about every other one comes with little (or most recently big) problems that the dealer eventually fixes. Then knock on wood things are GREAT! My 01 C2 coupe had a similar problem. As it turned out after sitting for about 36 hours the battery was dead. Found out the same way that you did. Got back from a trip and it wouldn't start. Luckily my airport jumps batteries for free. First the dealer gave me a trickle charger and said to leave it on whenever I left the car sitting for an extended period. Stupid answer! Finally, the dealer replaced a bunch of stuff (from the ignition switch to the immobilizer). Things seemed to be better. I could leave it a week and it started (maybe longer but I never tried). Then one day I was driving home and smoke started pouring out from under the drivers seat. Short in the electric seat wiring harness. I think that the short was the root cause of all my problems. I'm on a trip now and hope that my car starts after sitting a week at the airport. Got my fingers crossed. Some times when the remote has turned off and I open it with the key the alarm goes off, sometimes not. Haven't figured out the reason that the alarm goes off some times. The dealer had my car so long that technically it qualfies as a lemon under MA lemon law. But I do REALLY like it. PLanning on keeping it as long as it starts.

I would not hold BMW up as a paragon of quality and service. The reason I have my C2 Cab is that I was in the market for a new car and was quite interested in the new 745i (being a computer geek the all the tech stuff was attractive and it was in a BMW). I really enjoyed the car on the test drive and really didn't have a big problem with the styling. However I started to do some research and found loads of customers with problems that could not/would not be resolved. People on the 745 board complaining about the same thing...spent $80K and loads of problems. Ok so I know what you must be thinking...how did I go from looking at a big fat 745i to a sleek C2? Well I always wanted a P-car and BMW just gave me that little push to go out and get one!

I have to agree that MBs have their share of problems. 2 stories: One of a friend with an ML 55: The car broke down in the middle of the street one day. MB towed the car and found out the engine was blown. Th dealer would not offer a loaner but did offer to drive him to the nearest Avis! Another S500 which had a radio that would turn on and go to static by itself and a seat that would change its settings for no explainable reason while my friend was driving. Took it to a dealer who said they had done a diagnostic and it simply could not be happening - my friend must have been turning on the radio himslef and moving the seat, though maybe not realizing it (they honestly said that). The first year the ML and the S class were launched they both had a large number of technical problems and defects, which were ultimatley sorted out. I guess this stuff happens...

I here for the 04 model year MBZ is going to test market the first "Zero Defect" car. There will be NO factory warrenty, but the car will Be 8000.00 cheaper!, or for the 8k you get the "could be a few defects" warrenty AKA new car warrenty?......I wonder howmany will opt for the 1st option?

All cars have their quirks. I had a friend's friends dad's S420 merc electronic air suspension completely shut off recently in Vancouver-talk about stranded. I have a ML320 and darn cup holders break off like there's no tomorrow(driver/passenger/rear). Thank god I don't have cupholder in my p-car I be writing a letter to PCNA. Gone thru BMW's from 3(loved my 325is) to 7 series(boat-quite comfortable but cupholders with more parts then my Panerai watch)-great cars but they to have stuff going on. Hope it all gets work out. Regards. Mike

How does an AMG-massaged MB stack up against our P-cars?? Othello's picking up an AMG SL55 soon. Are they quirky, or rock solid stable? The more stories I read here about fellow pi**ed off/disenchanted P-car buyers, the more stories I hear about MB/BMW not being any better. Guess our only alternative is that new Saleen S7

Let me just put in my dime, fo what its worth. This is my second P-car which i bought new at the only dealer in Turkey, about 500 miles from where i live.My first was a 98 boxster.I haven't had any big problems at all, only minor ones which i had solved at the regular service,which i have done every 6000 miles.This is one of the reasons why i like Porsche, their good reliability.Believe me i don't want to drive 1000 miles up and down to Istanbul to have something fixed.A friend of mine recently took delivery of his SL 500, and after driving it for a week had had to let it stay at the (local) dealer for a week to get something fixed on that new electronic suspension.before my Porsches i owned a Saab 900 Cab, lots of problems with that car as well, mainly electronics.Seems that most problems with cars are due to electronics, so the more advanced and expensive car you buy, the bigger the risk.thats why not so many problems with a Toyota Corolla. 2002 C4 CAB 2001 CLK 200 k Cab (wife's)

Just found this, check point 67. Not sure how relevant it is... <a href="http://www.alldata.com/TSB/50/00504940.html" target="_blank">http://www.alldata.com/TSB/50/00504940.html</a>

Othello, I think you better switch back to the funeral parlour cars (MB!!!!!), if this stupid problem is bothering you so much <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Kostas Vassiliadis: <strong>Othello, I think you better switch back to the funeral parlour cars (MB!!!!!), if this stupid problem is bothering you so much <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote> Stupid problem? Have you ever run out of gas at midnight driving a bad part of town which is littered with drug gangs and drive by shootings in a high end car? Have you ever been away for 8 days straight leaving your wife with 2 toddlers and, after a 9 hour flight home you call to say you've landed and at that precise moment you hear scream as your 1 year old smacks her head on a table requiring you to get her to an emergency room and, as you try and drive home you can't because your brand new car won't start? Well? Don't talk to me about stupid problems. A stupid problem is when the wipers don't work but you can get safely to your destination or wait the rain out, your radio fails, the cd changer stops changing, the trunk won't open, etc. This is not about MB vs. Porsche, geez I've been buying cars long enough and have enough experience to know the difference and also EXACTLY what I was getting when I decided to get a Porsche. Do you honestly believe that I drove away from the dealership after buying my 996 thinking "wait a second, where's the comfy ride, where's all this engine noise coming from, where's my active body contol switch, etc?" This is about having a car for 2 days and it having a faulty fuel gauge that left me stranded and a car that failed to start the first time I left it alone for a week. Do other high-end cars have problems? Of course they do. Cars are mechanical devices and mechanical things have a certain probability of going wrong. My point in mentioning MB was that after 5 years of owning them and not having a problem you can imagine hoe ticked off I am right now after changing brands I am rewarded with 2 failures in as many weeks that really caused me problems, as 'silly' as they might be.

IMO-I enjoy my car so much that whatever happens to my car I get it fixed and the ride itself is enough for me to justify going thru any quirks which in a way any car ie Ferrari-don't know much about the 360 Modena and it's durability but owners are willing to take the hassles of the upkeep or any problems because they find the ride more rewarding then it's drawbacks . Maybe the P-car isn't rewarding enough for you to warrant going thru any hassles little or small. Good luck. Mike

I've come to realize that Porsche's are expensive due to their performance, handling, and race car heritage. They generally are on the cutting edge of performance technology. They are not expensive because they are problem free. Look at $30 Million dollar fighter planes that still crash during the early years of deployment. Porsche's are the fighter planes of the automotive world. As somebody pointed out, Ferrari's have problems too. Kia can make an automatic window that goes up reliably but Ferarri can't. That said, Porsche needs to work a little harder on the 996 series to prevent stranding good customers like Othello. No automobile marque should do that with a new vehicle... period. One quick observation. I'm very surprised that your dealer didn't go over the key/battery/cutoff. The boxster S has a similar system. My buddy just bought one a few months ago and the dealer went over this for 20 minutes. By the end, I was sitting there thinking "alright already, he's got the picture" but apparently it's very important (as several have found out). I have a 90 C2 which I only drive about once a week... I've found the battery dead a couple times. Pain in the ***, but a trademark of the vintage. Good luck! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Cheers Moose.. echo the sentiment. Latest update is that the part for the fuel gauge came in but it wouldn't communicate with the instrument cluster so new cluster on the way Monday. On the bright side, dealer delivered an '01 996 Cab to my door this afternoon for the weekend and took the Mazda away that they gave me. Having the car out sucks but the dealer is doing the best they can to rectify.

[quote]Originally posted by Othello: <strong>On the bright side, dealer delivered an '01 996 Cab to my door this afternoon for the weekend and took the Mazda away that they gave me. Having the car out sucks but the dealer is doing the best they can to rectify.</strong><hr></blockquote> Now that is a cool dealer....I rarely read of getting a 996 loaner.

I've got to sympathize with Othello's miserable luck. With all the computer stuff, there is a certain early failure rate which I've described as "infant mortality". Once you get over it, then you just deal with normal mechanical wear, an area in which Porsches excel. On the other hand, I don't think it's a Porsche phenomenon. My associate had a similar lock problem on her new MB S500, a friends BMW X5 toasted its engine due to a cooling flaw, and my own BMW 850 has has more than it's share of problems (including a massive and obviously dangerous fuel leak from the tank). It's possible to have the same problems if Othello had just ordered a new Benz, If the tank/fuel gauge problem was due to dealer neglect (they all come off the boat with dead batteries I was told), then the dealer has a lot of making up to do. Hope you get past the glitches and have a chance to enjoy the car. AS

In my Owner's Manual (911 Carrera-page 210), it states that after the car has gone into the 5-day battery conservation mode, you need to use the key to manually open the door because the remote is deactivated. It also states you must switch the ignition switch on within 10 seconds or the alarm will be triggered. Sounds like the alarm is essentially off (maybe the Infrared Passenger Monitoring device draws power) during the conserve mode. So in the conserve mode, it requires you to use the key within 10 seconds to maintain a level of security with the car.

Car still not back. The part they need is in Germany!! Dealer recommends that I call Porsche customer care and complain

[quote]Originally posted by Othello: <strong>Car still not back. The part they need is in Germany!! Dealer recommends that I call Porsche customer care and complain </strong><hr></blockquote>That's funny. When I called PCNA customer care, they said I should only complain through the dealer. Well....call them and see what line they give you

Hey Urbanski, I had the same result. Customer care said that the service rep would call me and I never heard from him. When I inquired after about a week, another PCNA rep said I had to go through the dealer as the service rep would be dealing with the dealer. Then I got an email yesterday from the service rep that he wants to meet me in a couple of weeks when he is in town to discuss my request for a warranty extension since my whole engine needs to be replaced. I don't know what there is to talk about, it's not brain surgery. The engine was defective from day one and needs a new one and I want them to extend the warranty since I never had a good engine to begin with!

I am in my 2nd month of a 6 month wait for a new leather dash. The original has a bubble in the center about 2" wide x 12" long.

By the way that 5 day thing is to f*ck garage queens.

I called PCNA Customer Commitment and they said that they'd take it up with the dealer and respond back to me with 48 hours with a status. It looks like they're wanting to replace the instrument console. The service advisor is telling me that would work and the quickest way to get me back on the road would be to take it from one of the new cars they have in stock, the sales rep is telling me that the GM won't allow them to take from an existing car because there's a law about interchanging an instrument panel, speedo, odometer, etc. (huh?) So I told the dealer last night to forget about the fuel gauge problem and I'd jsut bring the car back in when they receive the part that they need. GM says that they'd "rather not release the car to me knowing that there's a known problem". My response to them is quite clear, the clocks ticking and I'm now 8 days into GA's 31 days in 2 years Lemon Law. p,s, Not sure what you mean by the garage queen comment

What do you think I should do? Let them keep the car until the back ordered parts come in or have them release the car to me knowing that I'll have to take it back in? Anybody been through the Lemon process?

[quote]Originally posted by Moogle: <strong>By the way that 5 day thing is to f*ck garage queens.</strong><hr></blockquote>freaking hilarious man =P Garage queens are those with nice cars that don't drive them....they sit in their garage all the time. I even saw one ultimate garage queen had bought a plastic bubble to keep his P-car in. RE: what to do. I'd let them keep it....but DEMAND a P-car loaner, even a mere Boxster. If you take it "with a known defect" they may use that against you legally, if you ever sue or complain to them again. They could say you made it worse or something. Worst case void the warranty. urb ps. I have yet to hear back from PCNA re: my car/complaint. Been a month now. Oh PCNA folks, are you reading this board? What are you really doing over there in Atlanta???

Latest update... PCNA called me today.. to be honest they really do seem to be on the ball.. they tracked down another instrument cluster and it'll be at the dealers tomorrow. Then I got a call from the dealer say that they can now take a cluster from one of their inventory cars and it'll be ready tomorrow. Thanks for the advice about not bringing it out unfixed. As far as I'm concerned tomorrow is just day 9 towards to 30/31 days needed to lemon it.

well, they harvested the replacement tranny for mine from a C4 Cab, so an instrument cluster transplant should be no big deal. They just need to synch up the odometer.

Well I got it back today. We'll see how it goes.

Thought it was too good to last... Had the car back exactly one week and now the cruise control doesn't work. Excuse my language, but this is the biggest pile of crap I have ever had the misfortune of owning. I have no doubt that I will be lemoning this car before the year is out and will be glad to rid of this piece of junk. Roll on January when my SL55 comes in and I can get back to being a M-B owner again.

I have a C4S, sad to report absolutely no problems, just came back from a 3000 mile road trip, ran flawlessly. Superb car, excellent quality, frightening capabilities. About the battery problems...in the manual it states if I remember right that the sill switches for the hood and engine cover won't work if the battery is dead....duh? How would you boost it if you can't open the hood to access the battery...an I missing something?

I had a great experience with my '99 996 so because of that would stick with Porsche-smile everytime I drive : ). Regards. Mike

OK, I may be asking for it, but after 801 miles and over a month of ownership my C4S is virtually flawless! Life has its ups and downs and once you sour on something its tough to go back. Urbanski and Othello it is probably better for you to find a way out of your cars now, rather than put yourself through an experience that you are determined will be pure hell. I did that with a 740i sport and am THRILLED to be in my P-car! Sorry your experiences haven't met your expectations. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

I don't understand what all the complaining is about. A problem with something that was clearly outlined in the owner's manual? You can expect problems with any car, however I wouldn't call this a problem. As for MB, they are ok, definitely do not have a true sports car feel. My father just got the new SL, however as the saying goes...Porsche, there is no substitute! Regards, Dan

Othello - Yikes! I understand the frustration - I went through it with my MB E430 for nearly two months after new car purchase. I finally had to tell the MB service dept. to "Slow down, think about the problem, analyze it and fix it. Don't worry about getting me the car back within 24 hours." A week later, I had it back and it's been oil changes only ever since. Great car after a horrible start. As for my C4S - just completed a 1,000 mile trek across the midwest over the holiday weekend and the car continues to be dazzling through it's first 4,000 miles. I hope you get there soon.

[quote]Originally posted by targaman: <strong>I don't understand what all the complaining is about. A problem with something that was clearly outlined in the owner's manual? You can expect problems with any car, however I wouldn't call this a problem. As for MB, they are ok, definitely do not have a true sports car feel. My father just got the new SL, however as the saying goes...Porsche, there is no substitute! Regards, Dan</strong><hr></blockquote> For the sake of any children or ladies that may read these posts I'll refrain from describing exactly what I think about your opinion and your analysis of my problems. Where in the manual does it say that the fuel gauge will stop recording consumption at 1/4 tank and the fuel computer will display 64 miles to empty just before it grinds to a halt? Where does it say in the manual that the car will fail to start because a relay will blow after 2 weeks of ownership thus not allowing the car to start as it cannot sense whether the cluth is depressed or not? Where does it state in the manual that after 4 weeks of ownership the cruise control system will fail? So in short, if you have nothing constructive to say just STFU!

I've been biting my tongue (sitting on my fingers?), since my last post on this thread, but I'll forward another opinion on this public forum. I'll try to be constructive . Othello, I don't think your car likes you. It is purposely failing at little irritating things just to .....ahhh.... upset you. A dead battery here, a lock that doesn't work there, fools you with a wrong fuel reading, doesn't want to cruise for you. Next thing you know, the AC will blow hot air, the CD or radio will play rap when you want jazz, the odometer will turn 10 miles at a time, all the alarm lights will go off for no good reason, the window will only roll halfway up or down during a rainstorm...... You'll NEVER enjoy the car. I think you should return the car. Invoke lemon law, personal hardship, whatever. Just get that car out of your hands, and into someone's that the car may like. That's IMHO.

[quote] About the battery problems...in the manual it states if I remember right that the sill switches for the hood and engine cover won't work if the battery is dead....duh? How would you boost it if you can't open the hood to access the battery...an I missing something?[/QB]<hr></blockquote> This was a problem on the pre-2001 996's. Since then one can connect a battery to a terminal in the fuse box in the passenger compartment for enough juice to open the trunk and engine lids.

[quote]Originally posted by Palting: <strong>I've been biting my tongue (sitting on my fingers?), since my last post on this thread, but I'll forward another opinion on this public forum. I'll try to be constructive . Othello, I don't think your car likes you. It is purposely failing at little irritating things just to .....ahhh.... upset you. A dead battery here, a lock that doesn't work there, fools you with a wrong fuel reading, doesn't want to cruise for you. Next thing you know, the AC will blow hot air, the CD or radio will play rap when you want jazz, the odometer will turn 10 miles at a time, all the alarm lights will go off for no good reason, the window will only roll halfway up or down during a rainstorm...... You'll NEVER enjoy the car. I think you should return the car. Invoke lemon law, personal hardship, whatever. Just get that car out of your hands, and into someone's that the car may like. That's IMHO.</strong><hr></blockquote> You know - you could be right man. And it really pisses me off. I can honestly say that I have wanted a 911 since I first set eyes on one when I was around 6 or 7. I promised myself throughout high school that by the time I was 25 I'd buy myself one. Well I got to 25 and could not only afford to buy 911 but practically any car I wanted but didn't buy one. It took another 12 years before I decided to fulfil the promise I made to myself. And now I have one I am only thinking about dumping it. I'm going to the dealership again on Friday and will have them look at the cruise control. This will be day 10 of the 15 days out of service in one year clause in the GA lemon law statute.

[quote]Originally posted by Speed: <strong> This was a problem on the pre-2001 996's. Since then one can connect a battery to a terminal in the fuse box in the passenger compartment for enough juice to open the trunk and engine lids.</strong><hr></blockquote> Another 'convenient' Porsche idea. I mean, come on, this is ridiculous. Why can every other car manufacturer design there cars that don't need to shut down the electrics after 5 days and don't rely on a purely electronic means to open the trunk and hood? Is it such a big deal to have a manual opener to the trunk or engine cover in the event of a battery failure?

Othello, I think you have far more problems other than the ones you describe. Return the Porsche, buy a MB, and be happy, and let this topic finally END!

[quote]Originally posted by targaman: <strong>Othello, I think you have far more problems other than the ones you describe. Return the Porsche, buy a MB, and be happy, and let this topic finally END!</strong><hr></blockquote> More problems? How so?

Enough... we all get it by now... you are not satisfied with your Porsche. Nothing is perfect in life... you got a bad car, your bad luck. Happens to every manufacturer. Sell it already and don't buy another. Hopefully you will have better luck with your next purchase. However, what you should take away from everyone's comments is that your experience is NOT the normal Porsche experience and that the odds of you getting another problem Porsche are remote. <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />

othello sorry about your bad luck--my c4s has 10500mi with NO probs at all. my 2002 mb c32 amg threw a connecting rod at 9100 mi and required a replacement engine. the c32 was too quick for its chassis anyway--very intrusive esp--good riddance! i traded it for my c4s! mercedes is not nirvana--especially amg models--good luck and caveat emptor! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" />

Othello, Man I know how frustrating this is, and I think your best option would be to get rid of the car like someone else suggested. Some cars have this "Christine" curse that never seem to go away. Even if the car is fixed then I don't think that you'll truely enjoy it. The SL55 is a great car and having seen a few of them around I hope you'll finaly get something reliable that doesn't break-down as often as your Porsche does. I know I'd feel the same as you if things kept going wrong. Best of luck

Thanks for the last couple of comments. Got the cruise control fixed. Hopefully that's the end of it. It's a funny thing though, and perhaps where Porsche scores a victory over other marques. There's something about the car that allows it to get away with all of this trouble. I'll explain.... I was at lunch yesterday with a friend of mine who also owns a 996 (an '01 cab) and he's had all kinds of problems too. We were chatting about my experience and then I rode home (I was on my motorcycle). Opened the garage door, there was my car sitting there and I couldn't help but smile at her. It's like my 3 year old. She does some pretty typically 3 year old stuff that infuriates but then there's the moment when she does something that reminds you just how much you adore and love her and you forget all about $500 vase she just reduced to trash. My problem is that I can't drive the car long enough without something happening to get to the unconditional love part. Fingers crossed.

You have described how I feel about the car, Othello. In much the same way I always peek into my children's rooms before I go to bed, I will on occasion peek into the garage . I sincerely hope it will still work out for you.

othello i hope your bad luck is at an end too. beware a mb amg as a substitute--they are not reliable either. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />