GT4 PCCB or not PCCB - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, Just had a January build slot confirmed for my GT4 and need to lock in the final spec. Has anyone taken delivery of their one and selected the PCCBs? Are they worth the money? Gutted can't get the LWB seats.

kenny_smith81 said: Gutted can't get the LWB seats. What reason did they give and can't you defer the build until available?

Personally I'd consider delaying the build for the LWBs - how much would this delay taking delivery?

Supplier can't supply enough. No option to defer. Either go without or lose the car. Plenty of demand for the car so if people aren't happy without they will easily find someone who is happy to go without them I suppose.

On the subject of PCCBs I'm a big fan, love the feel, low brake dust, and zero corrosion issues. Weight saving I doubt I could ever tell the difference TBO. However I have gone for steels on my GT4 as they also feel great, and I plan to do quite a few track days, and prefer steels for that reason. If only road use I'd have gone PCCBs. PS - The steels can be prone to a bit of squealing at low speeds, if that bothers you. Edited by Sandy59 on Monday 26th October 19:49

kenny_smith81 said: Are they worth the money? The car has zero depreciation. Order what you want. It's free. The only time you can go mad on the spec is now.

Nothing is ever free, however hopefully the car will hold the value. If Porsche do decide to release more then some people may get a surprise that the car value might drop. I was 12th on the list and managed to secure one so maybe the demand isn't as high as everyone thinks.

R1nur said: The car has zero depreciation. Order what you want. It's free. The only time you can go mad on the spec is now. Do you think a PCCB car can fetch £5k more than a steel shod car 2nd hand ? So while it might be free, man maths ;-) , come resale time I doubt you will get the £5k extra back. if cars atm can fetch £30k overs in the right spec, can specing a £85k car really return £115k or is £115k just now too much for a Cayman ? Specing PCCB was 8% of the cars value after all. If the car had 991 S brakes or worse normal Cayman brakes I would have ticked the £5k box, but the GT4 has 6 pot 380MM GT3 brakes, is that lacking ?

After nearly a year of waiting for my GT4 i am expecting delivery next month.This has given me plenty of time to deliberate over my final spec.A day before order lockdown plucked up the courage to change from steels to PCCB knowing it was final!. Reasons for speccing PCCB was on advice from Autocar and to keep car as light as possible as well as LWBS but no PDLS or clubsport to save weight.PCCB saves 17kg,LWBS saves 14kg,PDLS adds 6kg and clubsport adds a whopping 26kg! Also at £4977 a bargain relative to GT3,GT3RS at £6248.

Sandy59 said: On the subject of PCCBs I'm a big fan, love the feel, low brake dust, and zero corrosion issues. Weight saving I doubt I could ever tell the difference TBO. However I have gone for steels on my GT4 as they also feel great, and I plan to do quite a few track days, and prefer steels for that reason. If only road use I'd have gone PCCBs. This. Thank you Sandy - I would have written almost exactly this. After 3 PCCB cars in a row - including my current Cayman S - I've spec'd the steels for my GT4. I'm not really expecting to notice the difference other than when cleaning. My car arrives soon - I'll let you know if regrets surface!

If I was speccing a GT4 (sadly not), I'd definitely want the pccbs. They have numerous dynamic advantages and IMO a GT4 with pccbs will be a better car than one without.

Taffy66 said: After nearly a year of waiting for my GT4 i am expecting delivery next month.This has given me plenty of time to deliberate over my final spec.A day before order lockdown plucked up the courage to change from steels to PCCB knowing it was final!. Reasons for speccing PCCB was on advice from Autocar and to keep car as light as possible as well as LWBS but no PDLS or clubsport to save weight.PCCB saves 17kg,LWBS saves 14kg,PDLS adds 6kg and clubsport adds a whopping 26kg! Also at £4977 a bargain relative to GT3,GT3RS at £6248. PDLS adds weight because of the much bigger wash bottle> empty it and you would lose most of the weight. clubsport weight is unavoidable if you want harnesses and will add rigidity to the chassis. did you add the lithium battery option as that saves 13kg as well? The thing to note is that some 19" wheels are going to be able to fit over the steels and if you get true forged wheels, the weight savings will be more significant. with pccb, i believe 19" wheels are no go. even considering the above, i, too, splurged for pccb. somehow, the allure of having 918 brakes are too great.

PCCB's saves 17Kilos x the unsprung rotational mass factor -- is this four or five times ? I ask the question because I'm sure that somebody will come along who knows ... The faster you go, the more of an advantage PCCB's become. As for the Lithium battery, I liked the sound of it, but worried about the practicality in Winter. Sure it saves 13 kilos but it's only around a third of the capacity ?

PorscheGT4 said: R1nur said: The car has zero depreciation. Order what you want. It's free. The only time you can go mad on the spec is now. Do you think a PCCB car can fetch £5k more than a steel shod car 2nd hand ? So while it might be free, man maths ;-) , come resale time I doubt you will get the £5k extra back. if cars atm can fetch £30k overs in the right spec, can specing a £85k car really return £115k or is £115k just now too much for a Cayman ? Specing PCCB was 8% of the cars value after all. If the car had 991 S brakes or worse normal Cayman brakes I would have ticked the £5k box, but the GT4 has 6 pot 380MM GT3 brakes, is that lacking ? I kept the Cayman R over 4 years. I often appreciated the PCCB's --- and not just for their braking capacity. Passengers often said how balanced and well connected my car felt, and it gave me real confidence. So if no added value, the cost to me was £10 per month. But I would look for a secondhand car with PCCB's ... my MP4 12C had them.

If you can afford them great, if you can't, tell everyone online that they are an idiot for adding them. Ok maybe thats a bit harsh, but really, if you want them, giving my past experience on GT3's, you won't regret it (unless you have zero mechanical sympathy perhaps).

I had also specced lightweight battery,black wheels and PDLS before adding PCCB but when i added PCCB on top car went over my self imposed price limit!I was torn between carmine and guard red but chose guards because its free and one of the best colours in the GT4.My decision on getting PCCB forced my hand on other choices.Being a tightfisted welshman forbid me from speccing clubsport at £3000 as its free on GT3.I am not intending to track my GT4 often so feel my spec suits me!

Basically it's not a question that has a right or wrong answer IMO.

As already said. If you intend to track your car buy steels. Ceramics give you no performance advantage and are quite easy to damage.

Sandy59 said: Basically it's not a question that has a right or wrong answer IMO. I've had a car with pccb and they are indeed impressive but I didn't pay for them new, my reasoning for not ordering them on my GT4 was that I didn't feel the yellow will go with GR and the caliber sizes are the same as pccb so look just as good though I appreciate the disks aren't as large. It Also meant I felt more inclined to spend extra on luxury interior parts such as carbon and swathes of alcantara. My build came to 73.5k so quite sensible . As sandy has said no wrong or right answer

Steve Rance said: As already said. If you intend to track your car buy steels. Ceramics give you no performance advantage and are quite easy to damage. Ditto and while saving on unsprung weight is always a good thing, remember that each wheel and tyre weighs over 20kg and you can add quite a bit to that for the suspension components - so percentage-wise the difference is not as great as you might think. The weight of different tyre brands varies by 3kg a wheel or more too.

ChrisW. said: I kept the Cayman R over 4 years. I often appreciated the PCCB's --- and not just for their braking capacity. Passengers often said how balanced and well connected my car felt, and it gave me real confidence. So if no added value, the cost to me was £10 per month. But I would look for a secondhand car with PCCB's ... my MP4 12C had them. Every R is connected and well balanced ! As you know I run both, and as you well know PCCB on the 987.2 platform was worth it 10 fold, as the 987.2 car is under braked. as for the 12C they are not 8% value of the car. It was a hard choice for me to go steels knowing how good my Spyder is on PCCB but that was for other reasons not the normal PCCB vs steels debate. My GT4 will be 200 kg more than my spyder anyway it's not a light car. As every one has said no right and wrong, but where the 987.2 platform you get a massive performance advantage so you see a bit of value, on the GT4 you are paying 8% value of the car for No performance advantage. looks alone though some might say they are worth it :-) and of course less dust, and as the car fetch's overs with man maths they are free. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 27th October 08:24

It seems to be widely accepted that, if the car is intended for mainly track use, then go for steels, changing to aftermarket options when they're worn out. But, for primarily road use, pccbs are easily worth the cost IMO - fantastic performance (hot or cold), no dust, no corrosion, massive life (discs - pads similar) significant unsprung weight saving (the biggest dynamic benefit).

You also forgot that they look awesome.

The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds.

franki68 said: The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds. the pec PCCB car was crap, no idea why :-(

franki68 said: The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds. The PCCBs I tried fine at Silverstone PEC (no squeaks). That said I can't say that I noticed that the brakes were any better than the steels on my S (which are fine too) at the fairly modest speeds you get up to at the PEC.

franki68 said: The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds. That's usually glazed pads - steel or ceramics - I've had it on both.

Geneve said: franki68 said: The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds. That's usually glazed pads - steel or ceramics - I've had it on both. I'd agree with that, previously had this as well.

Geneve said: franki68 said: The car I drove at my pec day had pccbs and they squeaked the whole time at all speeds. That's usually glazed pads - steel or ceramics - I've had it on both. I found that new PCCBs can be squeaky until you've done a few hard braking exercises to sort it out!

I understand the "kitty litter" can damage carbon/ceramic brakes but aside from that why would you not want them? They are fade free versus steel discs and normal pads which could fade perhaps?

xjay1337 said: I understand the "kitty litter" can damage carbon/ceramic brakes but aside from that why would you not want them? They are fade free versus steel discs and normal pads which could fade perhaps? Early versions of these discs seemed to wear quickly on track (due to drivers not managing hear build up appropriately (apparently)) meaning that it was very expensive to replace them and the 'longevity' benefit didn't actually exist in practice. I think later versions are much improved in this regard.

xjay1337 said: I understand the "kitty litter" can damage carbon/ceramic brakes but aside from that why would you not want them? They are fade free versus steel discs and normal pads which could fade perhaps? £4k a disk to replace and they don't take the heat on track that well plus 8% of the cars value to spec them. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 27th October 11:06

Ahh ok I would imagine they would be OK now, maybe not back in Mid 2000s when they became a bit more "mainstream" ? Although suppose you could always retrofit the carbon ceramics at a later date if you wanted.

PorscheGT4 said: ChrisW. said: I kept the Cayman R over 4 years. I often appreciated the PCCB's --- and not just for their braking capacity. Passengers often said how balanced and well connected my car felt, and it gave me real confidence. So if no added value, the cost to me was £10 per month. But I would look for a secondhand car with PCCB's ... my MP4 12C had them. Every R is connected and well balanced ! As you know I run both, and as you well know PCCB on the 987.2 platform was worth it 10 fold, as the 987.2 car is under braked. as for the 12C they are not 8% value of the car. It was a hard choice for me to go steels knowing how good my Spyder is on PCCB but that was for other reasons not the normal PCCB vs steels debate. My GT4 will be 200 kg more than my spyder anyway it's not a light car. As every one has said no right and wrong, but where the 987.2 platform you get a massive performance advantage so you see a bit of value, on the GT4 you are paying 8% value of the car for No performance advantage. looks alone though some might say they are worth it :-) and of course less dust, and as the car fetch's overs with man maths they are free. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 27th October 08:24 it's not 200kg more than your spyder unless you throw every option at it. And you don't even have clubsport. on a like for like basis, it is 65kg heavier but i'm sure ac/stereo and other luxuries will push the weight up. plus i bet the 1275kg quoted weight is with pccb and lithium battery, ac/stereo delete and no other option. most spyders weigh above 1300kg. anyway it is a moot point, i'll weigh mine as soon as I get it.............

Ceramics in the GT4 are probably one of the very few cars today where on track one is relatively less worried about wearing them out as the rotors are huge and the car is very underpowered compared to the other 3 cars that the brakes are fitted on so the thermal absorption that the brakes are put under is going to be far less compared to the other cars in theory the brakes are designed to be able to cope with. Personally I'd definitely not have ceramics on a car as you have far better range of rotor/pad choices with iron brakes and I'm not hugely bothered by brake dust but that's just me. It's always easy to find a reason to justify something like that with all manner of reasons whether accurate or not. OP if the cost is not much of an issue and you like the things, go for it.

PorscheGT4 said: the pec PCCB car was crap, no idea why :-( which one did you drive? I thought you drove the yellow one ?

isaldiri said: Ceramics in the GT4 are probably one of the very few cars today where on track one is relatively less worried about wearing them out as the rotors are huge and the car is very underpowered compared to the other 3 cars that the brakes are fitted on so the thermal absorption that the brakes are put under is going to be far less compared to the other cars in theory the brakes are designed to be able to cope with. Personally I'd definitely not have ceramics on a car as you have far better range of rotor/pad choices with iron brakes and I'm not hugely bothered by brake dust but that's just me. It's always easy to find a reason to justify something like that with all manner of reasons whether accurate or not. OP if the cost is not much of an issue and you like the things, go for it. I'd agree. If you are tracking the car frequently, it would make sense to be on steels, then you can upgrade to better rotors and better pads for more consistent feel and even better bite that some PCCB owners like. I do think that the reasoning of huge gen 3 rotors on a (relatively) low HP., lightweight car could stress the car even less. I mean front rotors are 16.1 inches..... steels are a worry free, low cost per disc option which you can afford to screw up. Either way, as a predominant track car, i would stay away from PCCB unless you can live with the uncertain longevity. Either way, I don't think you lose much at all with steels. but, for me, the lightweight & hi-tech brakes just edge it for me + i already have a dedicated track car.

mdianuk said: kenny_smith81 said: Gutted can't get the LWB seats. What reason did they give and can't you defer the build until available? Making me feel a little better about pulling my deposit. No LWB seats would have been a deal breaker for me.

I have ceramics on my GT3 Why ? Because my life is worth the cost I am fairly sure they saved me one time out in my Turbo S when they really really stopped me - since then its the first box I tick In a performance car its a must have in my opinion

I went for PCCBs

Bieldside said: I have ceramics on my GT3 Why ? Because my life is worth the cost I am fairly sure they saved me one time out in my Turbo S when they really really stopped me - since then its the first box I tick In a performance car its a must have in my opinion An odd view :-) I don't think people really realise that the GT4 has 6 pot 380MM brake set up, and it's not like any other Cayman/Boxster before it or even a 991 regarding the brake set up.

indeed. it is number 1 reason NOT to get PCCB. It is over - braked as it is. even the 991 RS comes with the same steels as standard.

I have gone with PCCBs - as it's my car and I want them...

TheDeadPrussian said: I have gone with PCCBs - as it's my car and I want them... Good answer. If you want them - brilliant, tick the box. If you don't want them - then don't tick the box. Easy.

Ceramic brakes are great ,and normally I would spec them,but this as has been said is well overbraked anyway . Its ridiculous to criticize someone for either speccing them or not speccing them though.

Agreed. However, I suspect most people who specify pccbs, don't do so for extra braking performance, it's usually the other benefits.

I've gone for steels..just can't warrant the extra cash, and I don't like yellow calipers!

Gents Slightly off topic but related.... I have a 991 Turbo S with PCCBs, 11,000 miles, for the last 3000 miles the brakes have started to make a louder and louder sound when applied which I can only describe as a 'shhhh' noise. It is really quite loud, the car is driven hard at times, braking really hard etc. No noise at all under braking before the last 3000 miles. No visible signs of wear on the discs and the pads look like they have more than 50% of the meat still remaining. Anyone else had this? If so what should I do if anything. Thanks in advance

I disagree that steels are better on track. The pads often chosen to make the best of steels on track make a dreadful noise on the road. The PCCB's cool far better in long track sessions than steel, but do therefore need properly cooling down before coming in. And although I will do a lot of track days, most of my mileage is still on the road ... So if I don't destroy my PCCB's on track, don't I have the best of all worlds ??

ChrisW. said: I disagree that steels are better on track. The pads often chosen to make the best of steels on track make a dreadful noise on the road. The PCCB's cool far better in long track sessions than steel, but do therefore need properly cooling down before coming in. And although I will do a lot of track days, most of my mileage is still on the road ... So if I don't destroy my PCCB's on track, don't I have the best of all worlds ?? Perhaps the ceramic preference is going to be quite car dependent as well. I know the ceramics held up really well on your cayman R but that's I think partially as the brakes are required to do relatively less compared to say on the 12C being a car with relatively much less engine power. If you still have the 12c and track it a bit more I would be quite interested to see how those ceramics discs hold up on track as a good friend who had a ceramic shod 12c went through his brakes at a frightening rate.

Randy rated the PCCB's quite highly. Monster disc on a light(ish) car. In the end I went steels - too scared of damaging a disc (been there before - stone stuck in pad and scored disc (steel) deep on my 997GTS).

Thanks for all the replies guys. Think I am just going to stick to the steel ones. See the Clubsport package appears to be unavailable now also. Wont complain too much, still one of the lucky ones to get a build slot.

Fair decision, made with broad information ---and therefore the right decision ! The best part of being able to specify YOUR new car

Chris My understanding is its not the cool down or lack of that accelerates wear but rather the high temps. Therefore by managing session time, u prolong disc longevity. Cooling down helps by bring temps down quicker but ultimately it is sustained high temps from prolong usage that wears them out. Ie the fade resistance is what kills the disc.

Bieldside said: I have ceramics on my GT3 Why ? Because my life is worth the cost I am fairly sure they saved me one time out in my Turbo S when they really really stopped me - since then its the first box I tick In a performance car its a must have in my opinion Your tyres saved you, not the brakes.

I would say pressing the brake pedal saved him :-)

ChrisW. said: Fair decision, made with broad information ---and therefore the right decision ! The best part of being able to specify YOUR new car +1

HokumPokum said: Chris My understanding is its not the cool down or lack of that accelerates wear but rather the high temps. Therefore by managing session time, u prolong disc longevity. Cooling down helps by bring temps down quicker but ultimately it is sustained high temps from prolong usage that wears them out. Ie the fade resistance is what kills the disc. Thats an interesting take. My understanding is that uneven cooling is what wrecks the discs. i.e. come straight into the pitts with hot discs and let the car sit there. Do we have anyone that knows the facts? And do we have anyone that has replaced PCCB discs?

Bieldside said: I have ceramics on my GT3 Why ? Because my life is worth the cost I am fairly sure they saved me one time out in my Turbo S when they really really stopped me - since then its the first box I tick In a performance car its a must have in my opinion I drove a 430 challenge on track with steel disks. Braking performance was superb. Or is that not performance enough?

R1nur said: HokumPokum said: Chris My understanding is its not the cool down or lack of that accelerates wear but rather the high temps. Therefore by managing session time, u prolong disc longevity. Cooling down helps by bring temps down quicker but ultimately it is sustained high temps from prolong usage that wears them out. Ie the fade resistance is what kills the disc. Thats an interesting take. My understanding is that uneven cooling is what wrecks the discs. i.e. come straight into the pitts with hot discs and let the car sit there. Do we have anyone that knows the facts? And do we have anyone that has replaced PCCB discs? I'm no expert but this is what i have been advised steel discs are affected by heat cycling as it leads to cracks. Simply stated you heat them up and cool them down rapidly but I believe this is more due to rapidly heating them up rather than cooling them down. Could be entirely wrong but a proper cool down lap just allows you to be ready for the next session in a shorter time.... I go through a set of steels every 5 or 6 track days. PCCB are only affected by high temp oxidation which reduces the CCB weight hence you need to replace them when they get to a minimum weight. Of course this doesn't cover the chips or disc scoring that could also happen. I am hoping the gen 3 PCCB will be thermally more resistant and that the massive size will control temps somewhat but imo the best way to manage this is to keep your sessions to a manageable 15 min per session before the cooldown lap and coming back out again in 20/30 min.

I have PCCB on my 997 GT3, I didn't order them, I bought the car secondhand. For those of you with PCCB brakes on your GT4....... 1) After washing the car, give a quick dab on the brakes as they don't work straightaway 2) Check them regularly for signs of chips, cracks and de-lamination 3) Make sure you use the provided long bolts (when removing the wheels from your car) that ensure the wheel will not drop or touch the carbon discs 4) Check the rear brake pads often and replace at 50% worn (the rear brakes are used as a s tty replacement for a decent LSD) 5) If tracking the car, turn off traction control as it will overheat the discs (see point 4 above) 6) Look into getting some rear brake cooling ducts to mitigate points 4 and 5 (I have the cooling ducts from the GT3 RS on mine) This is MY experience with PCCB brakes on a GT3, you guys may encounter different issues

V8KSN said: I have PCCB on my 997 GT3, I didn't order them, I bought the car secondhand. For those of you with PCCB brakes on your GT4....... 1) After washing the car, give a quick dab on the brakes as they don't work straightaway 2) Check them regularly for signs of chips, cracks and de-lamination 3) Make sure you use the provided long bolts (when removing the wheels from your car) that ensure the wheel will not drop or touch the carbon discs 4) Check the rear brake pads often and replace at 50% worn (the rear brakes are used as a s tty replacement for a decent LSD) 5) If tracking the car, turn off traction control as it will overheat the discs (see point 4 above) 6) Look into getting some rear brake cooling ducts to mitigate points 4 and 5 (I have the cooling ducts from the GT3 RS on mine) This is MY experience with PCCB brakes on a GT3, you guys may encounter different issues spot on. this means all off: SC+TC off and change pads at 5mm But, I think if you are neat, leaving the aids on is ok in sport mode. This will need some experimentation. although I am not sure that turns off PTV. I'm sure we can all expect Chris to report back on how his rear discs are wearing.

Do we have anyone that knows the facts? And do we have anyone that has replaced PCCB discs? [/quote] http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

So the steels are not 2 piece? That's a bit pap. 🙁

eggy41 said: Do we have anyone that knows the facts? And do we have anyone that has replaced PCCB discs? http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=0&memberId=134283&t=1502023&f=48&mid=214951 http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Yes. I have both. Replaced the PCCB's at 34,000 miles on my Cayman R --- with SICOM discs --- you'll see some pics on the topic above. This was why I re-specified PCCB's on the GT4. The replacement SICOM discs cost me less than I reckon I would have spent on steels in the time, and apparently they were fab at the Croft track day just before the Porsche Club Championship weekend --- I took delivery of my GT4 that week ! Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 29th October 20:48 Edited by ChrisW. on Thursday 29th October 20:51

I am thinking of getting a used gt4 that have pccb fitted. But i am little worried about that because of the high cost and if they will be worn fast on track because i am planning to use it most of the time on track. Do you think i shall look for another car wirh steel discs? How much does it cost to replace ceramic discs? Do they wear more on track, i mean the pccb discs? Or must i change steel discs more often so the maths will do almost the same. The car i looking at has only 3500 km on the clock.

My understanding is that the PCCBs are fine for mixed road and track use, and you'll just go through pads more quickly whether you have ceramics or steels. However, if you are doing a lot of track driving they you would probably be best replacing them with one of the aftermarket upgrades - Alcons or whatever.

PCCBs are very durable for track use - the latest generation are at least as they have a special coating applied - someone will give the finer detail. I know some people that have done 30+ trackdays on the original discs and still have plenty of life left in them. I wouldn't be put off by PCCBs - indeed I've just bought a GT4 with them too and they are fantastic

This gen of ceramics seem to be very resilient as far as rotors are concerned. Which is just as well given the replacement costs of discs are astronomical but so far hardly anyone on the 991 gen I know has had to replace them whether rs, gt3 or 4. The gt4 has the same size rotors as the gt3/rs and indeed the 918 despite being very underpowered compared to the other cars running the same brakes. Given that, I wouldn't be concerned as long as the rotors check out as ok on pre purchase inspection.

isaldiri said: This gen of ceramics seem to be very resilient as far as rotors are concerned. Which is just as well given the replacement costs of discs are astronomical but so far hardly anyone on the 991 gen I know has had to replace them whether rs, gt3 or 4. The gt4 has the same size rotors as the gt3/rs and indeed the 918 despite being very underpowered compared to the other cars running the same brakes. Given that, I wouldn't be concerned as long as the rotors check out as ok on pre purchase inspection. +1

30K on my 991 GT3 - Discs are still in great condition

I did two track days in my 991 GT3 with PCCBs. One was in the wet, so braking not an issue, but at Brands hatch in the dry i overheated the brakes within a few laps and had brake fluid pissing everywhere. I had to manage the overheating throughout the day. So based on that experience, i would never spec PCCB again because i know an aftermarket setup would be much better. If a second hand car is otherwise the ideal spec, i would box up the PCCBs and put some Alcons, and spec my own pads, brake fluid etc. If it's just a weekend car, then go for PCCBs. They have great feel and look amazing on the car. You'll wear them very slowly and now you have an option with SICOM.

hondansx said: I did two track days in my 991 GT3 with PCCBs. One was in the wet, so braking not an issue, but at Brands hatch in the dry i overheated the brakes within a few laps and had brake fluid pissing everywhere. I had to manage the overheating throughout the day. So based on that experience, i would never spec PCCB again because i know an aftermarket setup would be much better. If a second hand car is otherwise the ideal spec, i would box up the PCCBs and put some Alcons, and spec my own pads, brake fluid etc. If it's just a weekend car, then go for PCCBs. They have great feel and look amazing on the car. You'll wear them very slowly and now you have an option with SICOM. Doesn't that sound more that your brake fluid was a bit iffy and ended up boiling? You would have got that issue whether with steels or ceramics. Enough people have tracked the ceramics on the 991rs/gt3/gt4 to suggest that longevity on track isn't a problem. Ok there is obviously the risk of buggering the rotor if you spin into the gravel but has anyone here actually had to replace the current gen of ceramic rotors due to wear?

hondansx said: ...They have great feel... ^ This ^ Its the single biggest reason to buy a GT car with PCCB if you ask me - a lot of people make the assumption that its for improved braking performance, but as said earlier the steels are more than good enough for this, more so than ever on the GT4. You just don't get the same feel/handling out of the steels, and once you have had them it's hard to go back. I can't see what that isn't REALLY important to most people who buy GT cars, but accept the point about potential costs if abused/damaged/tracked really hard.

I would absolutely go for PCCB. I have these on my 987 and have owned and driven many cars without PCCB. Its the unsprung weight saving that rewards best bringing more feel to the steering in the process. Realistically if you can afford a Cayman GT4 you can afford to replace a disc or set of pads so go for it. Certainly on the 987 the difference is completely transformative.

fridaypassion said: Realistically if you can afford a Cayman GT4 you can afford to replace a disc or set of pads so go for it. I'm not so sure. Disks need to be replaced in pairs I think and are around £8k? 10% of the cost of the car for a consumable replacement part - I don't think all GT4 owners will be in a position to pay that.

AdamV12V said: hondansx said: ...They have great feel... ^ This ^ Its the single biggest reason to buy a GT car with PCCB if you ask me - a lot of people make the assumption that its for improved braking performance, but as said earlier the steels are more than good enough for this, more so than ever on the GT4. You just don't get the same feel/handling out of the steels, and once you have had them it's hard to go back. I can't see what that isn't REALLY important to most people who buy GT cars, but accept the point about potential costs if abused/damaged/tracked really hard. Single biggest reason NOT to have PCCB on the GT4 was feel for me, they were rubbish!! Complete void of any feel whatsoever, and the braking performance inferior unless you got some serious temps in them. If your serious about trackdays - go Steel. If you enjoy weekend blasts - go steels If you do less that 100 miles per years and prefer to to admire the size of the discs whilst parked up in the garage - go PCCB

fridaypassion said: Certainly on the 987 the difference is completely transformative. In fairness the 987 is under braked as standard. In this instance, the larger ceramics are probably a worth while upgrade.

must be something different between GT3 & GT4 then; only time I have an issue with mine is if I've just washed the car and they are wet - then it's interesting trying to stop first time ! (I do usually remember !) from a feel POV, they seem just fine. can't compare them to steels on a 991 GT3, as I've not driven one, but I've driven plenty of 99x GT3s with steels, from factory fit , through Alcon, PF etc

n17ves said: In fairness the 987 is under braked as standard. In this instance, the larger ceramics are probably a worth while upgrade. They certainly have a lot more feel the Porsche brakes are always a bit aloof. I'll have a sample of the GT4 ones some time. Might swap you the SC for a weekend when its done?

n17ves said: AdamV12V said: hondansx said: ...They have great feel... ^ This ^ Its the single biggest reason to buy a GT car with PCCB if you ask me - a lot of people make the assumption that its for improved braking performance, but as said earlier the steels are more than good enough for this, more so than ever on the GT4. You just don't get the same feel/handling out of the steels, and once you have had them it's hard to go back. I can't see what that isn't REALLY important to most people who buy GT cars, but accept the point about potential costs if abused/damaged/tracked really hard. Single biggest reason NOT to have PCCB on the GT4 was feel for me, they were rubbish!! Complete void of any feel whatsoever, and the braking performance inferior unless you got some serious temps in them. If your serious about trackdays - go Steel. If you enjoy weekend blasts - go steels If you do less that 100 miles per years and prefer to to admire the size of the discs whilst parked up in the garage - go PCCB yes they are the same 918spyder brakes.. as well as an upgrade on the 991.1 RS. Pretty sure they are not rubbish but there are always outliers caused by particular setups/usage or driving habits. Not questioning the standard setup isn't excellent, but I like my brakes almost as much as I like HP, given that they are standard on the million pound supercar, it was a no brainer for me at 5k.

I am very happy with mine. Maybe those who have passengered with me would like to comment on the brake feel ... Late, on the ABS and pulling around 1.4g in the dry on PS Cup2's If I do stuff them, I will either resurface them with SICOM (if this is still an option) or fit Surface Transform which are a solid carbon disc which is skimmable up to three times if chipped ... But they are holding very well at the moment.

I've had pccbs on my last five 'sports' Porsches, over 12 years and six figure mileages, road and track, with all the benefits and no issues whatsoever. For me they're a given. Granted, on a track only car, I'd probably box the pccbs and go for a specialist steel set up. But for normal road and light track use they are a very nice option and the price is very good value compared with all the other prestige supercar manufacturers. One point I sometimes hear mentioned is the risk (and cost) of 'damage'. It think it's a very remote likelihood, but like most damage, it should be covered under the vehicle's insurance.

Hello, One question regarding the PCCB, pls. One can read a lot of different views on the ceramic brakes; some people stating that track use is to be avoided, while others are more nuanced and have been on track with their car. If you have some experience or heard feedback from users, I’ll be interested to hear your views. Would a moderate use (no prolonged use, session from max. 20’ without driving to the absolute limit and shooting hard into the brakes, followed by ad hoc cooling) be detrimental to the PCCB ? Many thanks for your inputs.

I’m sure I’ve answered before, but IMO PCCBs really elevate a car, especially GT models. All the benefits are enjoyed in road use and occasional track use. My only reservation, if replacement cost is a concern, would be extensive regular track use, where they become a consumable. Although the yellow 981 GT4 at PEC retained them for ages, despite an everyday life on their circuit.

Most recent discussion was here https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Page 20 for a few posts.

For your described intended use I would say that they should work very well. On track I would suggest two cooling down laps trying not to use the brakes and changing the disc pads at half worn ... and so long as in good condition when you buy the car I can see only upsides. As you will see I did go for Surface Transforms on my car and am seeing significantly better disc pad life and disc cooling ... but my car is mainly used on the track and the original PCCB's are boxed up with around 9,500 miles on them. The car has now done 28,000 ish miles.

Very interesting. Thx for your feedback.