GT4 - PDK v Manual? - Page 2 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Wondered if many have tried both and what your thoughts were please? Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Wondered if people expect that to balance up over time or will PDKs always be worth a bit more given comparative rarity?

I think I've posted this on here before but I can't find the thread it's in, so I'll re-post it: Twinfan said: I have a 718 GT4 in manual and a friend has a 718 GT4 with PDK. His is completely standard and has had a geo setup but no parts added. My car is modified with a LWFW, sports exhaust silencer and some Motorsport parts to allow a more aggressive geo. I've driven my on track and I was a passenger on track in the PDK car, both running Michelin Cup2 tyres. So not quite a like for like comparison, but pretty close. I'm probably going to be stating the obvious here, but here goes anyway... For ease of use and consistent lap times the PDK box is clearly the way to go. The shifts are impeccable both up and down and it allows you to keep both hands on the wheel at all times. Every shift is identical to the last and perfect. The car is more settled with less weight transfer, smoother all round and very slick - effortless. Gearing isn't that much shorter than a manual and not enough to make a substantial difference in my view. I found that my manual car had more character with some more mechanical noise and interaction. PDK seemed too easy for my tastes, less raw feeling and less of a challenge to really nail a good series of bends, shifts and braking points. My car is much harder work to get right consistently but when you do it feels really, really good. I also think on the road it's a much more enjoyable option as it feels so rugged, mechanical and old-skool. Adding auto-blip on track really helps on the downshifts of course, but you still get that mechanical connection to the car via the use of the clutch and a manual shift. My take home view was that if you track a lot and you're chasing the absolute best times, or want an easier life on both road or track, then PDK is the way to go. Me, I'm completely satisfied with my manual 'box as I find it fabulous to use both on and off track and I enjoy the inconsistency of a manual gear change. The cars felt quite different to me and I think people will definitely prefer one over the other depending on what they want from a car. YMMV, other opinions are available etc etc. Both are superb options, there's no right or wrong choice! Regarding values I don't think there will be that much difference longer term between the choice of gearboxes. I wouldn't buy on the basis of resale, but on whichever you would prefer to use or best suits your needs.

Given that the ratios aren't dramatically different - its the age old PDK vs Manual debate really. Buy what's best for you/your intended use. PDK will be an advantage on track - bit more capacity for the driver not having to work about mis-shifting, and the ability to brake later and change gear at the same time and even mid corner. Manual might be more nostalgic for the back road blast - demand on the driver skill. As for pricing on 718 GT4/Spyder - this is just a case of limited supply for PDKs at the moment. Deliveries have been delayed. The major step for gearbox on the GT4 is the short ratio PDK in the GT4 RS... mega.

Buy what you want. I wanted PDK and waited for the PDK, I think it's amazing. Regarding future prices, well PDK has only been available this year so there will be less supply compared to the manual. If GT4 production stops as people on this forum have said, it's not available to order, then prices will remain high. If you want manual, buy manual. If you want PDK, buy PDK. Both are amazing.

Would echo what others have already said but would add that if the PDK in the GT4 was the lighter version PDK box from the GT3 it would perhaps make it the more compelling choice. As it is the manual box in the GT4 is such a perfect action gearbox and provides a far more interactive drive in what is after all a fairly focused drivers car. Your use of the car could well dictate which gearbox is preferable too. PDK GT4s currently at a premium to the manual primarily due to relative rarity but like the 991.2 GT3 and older but relatively modern Ferraris the manual will undoubtedly be the one to own in years to come even factoring PDK has aged relatively well for an auto box.

Now in my seventies I’ve done my time with the manual. Love the PDK, my car is going to be used almost exclusively on the road in all conditions with the very occasional visit to a track. Off to Parr on the 16th to have the Cargraphic 2 way exhaust controller fitted then have the geo sorted and that will probable be it for me.

av185 said: Would echo what others have already said but would add that if the PDK in the GT4 was the lighter version PDK box from the GT3 it would perhaps make it the more compelling choice. As it is the manual box in the GT4 is such a perfect action gearbox and provides a far more interactive drive in what is after all a fairly focused drivers car. Your use of the car could well dictate which gearbox is preferable too. PDK GT4s currently at a premium to the manual primarily due to relative rarity but like the 991.2 GT3 and older but relatively modern Ferraris the manual will undoubtedly be the one to own in years to come even factoring PDK has aged relatively well for an auto box. Spent a fair while deliberating over this. Decided to go for manual again, I think the PDK for me at least would water down the experience a bit. I think your right that for the next while PDK may be at a premium but long term the manual will be the more desireable car. Even more so as the world continues its relentless March towards Auto transmission and autonomous cars etc

I haven’t had both, but the car I had before my 981 GT4 had a PDK box. My other cars are full autos or a single clutch automated manual. I must be one of those rare types who prefers single clutch automated boxes to dual clutch. Enough driver engagement without being irksome. I think the manual box suits the GT4 well, personally. It’s a car that wants you to engage in it and not just sit there. The shift weight and throw length is just about perfect. And the noise of the linkages working just suits the overall noise profile of the car (though I admit a 718 may be a bit different in that department to a 981). Twinfan’s summary reads to me as pretty well spot on: PDK is the better route to consistency without effort, a manual needs you to work it and may be either more frustrating or more satisfying for it. Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 6th November 20:39

finmac said: Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Care to share the data, sources and calculation methods for how to come to this conclusion? From looking at ads the prices are on par with one another. I see no discernible evidence for your claim especially when factoring in adverts which are from chancers. Buy what you prefer and buy it for you .

julian987R said: finmac said: Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Care to share the data, sources and calculation methods for how to come to this conclusion? From looking at ads the prices are on par with one another. I see no discernible evidence for your claim especially when factoring in adverts which are from chancers. Buy what you prefer and buy it for you . A quick glance at auto trader, if you want to do a forensic examination - fill your boots as they say!

finmac said: julian987R said: finmac said: Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Care to share the data, sources and calculation methods for how to come to this conclusion? From looking at ads the prices are on par with one another. I see no discernible evidence for your claim especially when factoring in adverts which are from chancers. Buy what you prefer and buy it for you . A quick glance at auto trader, if you want to do a forensic examination - fill your boots as they say! Well I did look and see no discernible evidence that supports your claim. You'll have to do better than that as a return serve.

julian987R said: finmac said: julian987R said: finmac said: Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Care to share the data, sources and calculation methods for how to come to this conclusion? From looking at ads the prices are on par with one another. I see no discernible evidence for your claim especially when factoring in adverts which are from chancers. Buy what you prefer and buy it for you . A quick glance at auto trader, if you want to do a forensic examination - fill your boots as they say! Well I did look and see no discernible evidence that supports your claim. You'll have to do better than that as a return serve. “Return serve”, FFS, it’s a car forum! I come on here to relax and chill out. Not interested in returning any serve or getting into arguments.

finmac said: julian987R said: finmac said: julian987R said: finmac said: Value wise, the PDKs are a lot higher than manual box cars, is that just supply and demand (given only roughly 20% for sale are PDK)? Care to share the data, sources and calculation methods for how to come to this conclusion? From looking at ads the prices are on par with one another. I see no discernible evidence for your claim especially when factoring in adverts which are from chancers. Buy what you prefer and buy it for you . A quick glance at auto trader, if you want to do a forensic examination - fill your boots as they say! Well I did look and see no discernible evidence that supports your claim. You'll have to do better than that as a return serve. “Return serve”, FFS, it’s a car forum! I come on here to relax and chill out. Not interested in returning any serve or getting into arguments. well don't make unsubstantiated or false claims then. Its not difficult difficult lemon difficult

julian987R said: well don't make unsubstantiated or false claims then. Its not difficult difficult lemon difficult Pot/Kettle

carpah said: julian987R said: well don't make unsubstantiated or false claims then. Its not difficult difficult lemon difficult Pot/Kettle When i was building the specification for my gt4 order in Septemberthis year. I had a long talk with the Reading OPC as whilst i was intending to order manual, i didnt want to find that when i came back to trade it in, that i would find that manual is no longer in vogue. They told me that the uptake between manual and PDK was around 50/50 and that there was very little difference in values between the two. Make of that what you will but just advising what i was told.

I had similar thoughts when I first started seeing the PDKs hit the market at the much inflated prices. I immediately started thinking I should spec PDK. But as the months have gone by (and the hours wasted researching/configuring), the bottom line is those higher screen priced cars have not sold. The white one at Wolverhampton OPC, the black one at Gravelwood, the black one at Redline etc, they've all been for sale for ages. Porsche finance add £2k to a PDK residual, so they must see some value, but IMO certainly not the £10k+ differences in the market screen prices. So as the market matures through 2022 and more PDK cars hit the market, those gaps IMO will drop to near or just over the same prices as Manual. So once I'd got the stupid "will it be worth less" mentality out of my head, I started bringing myself back to the reality that I'm buying the car for my enjoyment, and I went back to my original want of manual. The gearbox is sublime and the auto-blip makes it oh so pleasurable and makes it involving, on the test-drive I had I was changing gears for the fun of it, not because I had to. The only reason I can see anyone choosing PDK is if you are a track warrior chasing times, else IMO you are diluting some of the mechanical/driving experience. Having said all that, I'll be testing the Manual v PDK at the Silverstone GT4 experienced, so I'll see if my gut feeling is right, which I suspect I am.

anonymous said: [redacted] Not at all tragic. I stuck with my original choice of manual.

anonymous said: [redacted] For your information i would not have bought the car with PDK. Had the OPC advised me that no one buys manual gt4's anymore i would have not proceeded. So i was not considering buying a PDK,

anonymous said: [redacted] For your information i would not have bought the car with PDK. Had the OPC advised me that no one buys manual gt4's anymore i would have not proceeded. So i was not considering buying a PDK,

anonymous said: [redacted] Lol. I am not trying to change anyones mind, i was only replying to an earlier post and the point was that the uptake of manual to PDK was around 50 /50 according to the OPC. You just jumped on the comment. I will wave the white flag if i ever see you in your 911.

I suspect the bottom line is either manual or PDK will be brilliant - I doubt you’d regret either choice. My spec (PNTYRLL3) locks down this week, my initial spec was manual, I did lots of head scratching but stuck with it. Yes the pdk prices are buoyant but I’m not that bothered TBH.

anonymous said: [redacted] I agree. Utterly bonkers.

julian987R said: anonymous said: [redacted] I agree. Utterly bonkers. I'm not saying this is the case in this example, but I do find where people are very focused on trade in values and residuals to the detriment of all else, they are probably stretching themselves financially to make it work. If a predicted residual can make the man maths work and lets you get into the car I say fair play and get it bought. However, undoubtedly, it is better not to be in denial about the possible loss of value- and then just spec it for yourself, as you see fit.

GRD_72 said: I suspect the bottom line is either manual or PDK will be brilliant They are, in their own different ways

Lexington59, I agree with your logic. I specced mine exactly how I wanted it. Not sure what's the obsession with future values. Future values never crossed my mind. I'm enjoying the ownership experience and not planning to sell mine for a long time.

julian987R said: well don't make unsubstantiated or false claims then. Its not difficult difficult lemon difficult Unless your looking with your ears on autotrader you can quite clearly see a 15-20k difference between a well spec'd Manual and a well spec'd PDK. My version of well spec'd will be different to some people but all opinion based but PDK, PCCB, Buckets, Clubsport pack ETC is Spec'd on mine.

jake1248 said: julian987R said: well don't make unsubstantiated or false claims then. Its not difficult difficult lemon difficult Unless your looking with your ears on autotrader you can quite clearly see a 15-20k difference between a well spec'd Manual and a well spec'd PDK. My version of well spec'd will be different to some people but all opinion based but PDK, PCCB, Buckets, Clubsport pack ETC is Spec'd on mine. Poppycock. If I compare spec and mileage between both transmissions there is complete parity between the two. 20K difference, ‘is he having a laugh?’ (to quote when the whistle blows)

julian987R said: Poppycock. If I compare spec and mileage between both transmissions there is complete parity between the two. 20K difference, ‘is he having a laugh?’ (to quote when the whistle blows) Your on your own on this one. Pretty simple really, there is 475 registered manuals to date and only 65 PDK's. If I wanted to buy the same spec car as mine in manual (low mileage) I can find one for £95,740 (Different Colour), Now if I wanted a PDK one similar to mine the lowest one i can find is £109,990 and it has almost 1000 miles more! Please see examples below no further responses from you needed! Manual car on 1650 miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110138... PDK car on 2500 Miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136...

DM101 said: I specced mine exactly how I wanted it. Not sure what's the obsession with future values. Future values never crossed my mind. I'm enjoying the ownership experience and not planning to sell mine for a long time. Playing devils advocate here, and a genuine question - what If you're on a budget and can't spec it "exactly how you want", how do you then approach the speccing exercise?

kmpowell said: DM101 said: I specced mine exactly how I wanted it. Not sure what's the obsession with future values. Future values never crossed my mind. I'm enjoying the ownership experience and not planning to sell mine for a long time. Playing devils advocate here, and a genuine question - what If you're on a budget and can't spec it "exactly how you want", how do you then approach the speccing exercise? You blow your budget, obvs As Henry Royce said "The quality will remain long after the price is forgotten".

jake1248 said: Your on your own on this one. Pretty simple really, there is 475 registered manuals to date and only 65 PDK's. If I wanted to buy the same spec car as mine in manual (low mileage) I can find one for £95,740 (Different Colour), Now if I wanted a PDK one similar to mine the lowest one i can find is £109,990 and it has almost 1000 miles more! Please see examples below no further responses from you needed! Manual car on 1650 miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110138... PDK car on 2500 Miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136... Tony at Gravelwoods car is his own personal one.....his collection day of it is on YT. He is chancing it at that price. It originally started at £115. Just because the sticker price says that doesn't mean it'll be achieved. Where is the data evidence on sold prices to substantiate the claim. I am still waiting on that. No further responses from you needed too unless you bring some facts to the party.

julian987R said: Tony at Gravelwoods car is his own personal one.....his collection day of it is on YT. He is chancing it at that price. It originally started at £115. Just because the sticker price says that doesn't mean it'll be achieved. Where is the data evidence on sold prices to substantiate the claim. I am still waiting on that. No further responses from you needed too unless you bring some facts to the party. You don't currently own either of these cars so not sure. 1 why your even on here arguing with people. 2 No one needs to prove anything to you, there are examples provided end of, you cannot get a PDK one for under 105k but you can get a Manual one for high 80s. How about you provide the ones that have sold for the same money as the manuals and this will back up your argument wont it. Your the opposer here so you prove it!

kmpowell said: Playing devils advocate here, and a genuine question - what If you're on a budget and can't spec it "exactly how you want", how do you then approach the speccing exercise? As said on here prior its all based on what you want, so go as crazy as you want. The car will be fantastic with no options, biggest one for me is the buckets because I use it on track but again all depends what you want it for.

jake1248 said: You don't currently own either of these cars so not sure. 1 why your even on here arguing with people. 2 No one needs to prove anything to you, there are examples provided end of, you cannot get a PDK one for under 105k but you can get a Manual one for high 80s. One thing to bear in mind is age. Manual cars have been available for 12-15 months longer than PDK cars so you need to look at similarly aged cars not just spec and mileage. I suspect most fairly new cars with either gearbox are priced slightly over list, older manual cars around list or just below.

jake1248 said: Your on your own on this one. Pretty simple really, there is 475 registered manuals to date and only 65 PDK's. If I wanted to buy the same spec car as mine in manual (low mileage) I can find one for £95,740 (Different Colour), Now if I wanted a PDK one similar to mine the lowest one i can find is £109,990 and it has almost 1000 miles more! Please see examples below no further responses from you needed! Manual car on 1650 miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110138... PDK car on 2500 Miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136... Apples and pears I'm afraid. The cheaper manual car is 2020 20 reg with 3 owners wheras the PDK car is 2021 reg and 1 owner even though it has 1k miles more but both fairly low mileage. Try comparing the same mileage spec owners and age cars otherwise there is invariably a large price differential with totally different carss as your comparisons prove and it is effectively a useless comparison.

Whoever is right/wrong one thing we know for sure is that when/if we sell our cars on at some future date we aren’t going to be losing much money by way of depreciation whichever gearbox we have.

jake1248 said: julian987R said: Your the opposer here so you prove it! Thats not how it works, otherwise anything can be claimed, hey after all Porsche is secretly owned by Rolex paid for from nazi gold (why not). If one is going to back up their statement then provide some hard evidence than some wishy washy response.

Budweiser said: Whoever is right/wrong one thing we know for sure is that when/if we sell our cars on at some future date we aren’t going to be losing much money by way of depreciation whichever gearbox we have. Well said. I will mention again what i asked two Opc in Reading and south London. This was, what is the difference in trade in value between manual and PDK and was told by both in September this year that there was no discernable difference between the two other than the option price of the gearbox. The last time i was attacked for daring to mention the subject. Lets see what happens this time.

kmpowell said: Playing devils advocate here, and a genuine question - what If you're on a budget and can't spec it "exactly how you want", how do you then approach the speccing exercise? You just prioritise what you want against your budget. PDK was a must have for me, it's only 2K on a 76.5K vehicle. I wanted and specced PCCB, but at 5.6K I can understand if you're on a budget why you wouldn't. I had the mindset that I specced my GT4 exactly how I wanted it. Trade in value was never a consideration. I assume like most people I spent hours looking at images of GT4's to choose my most optimum colour/spec. combination. I never asked the OPC about trade in values. This isn't my priority but like Budweiser has just said, GT4's aren't going to lose much money, regardless of transmission.