manual or auto??? - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Guys, I'm in the market for an early generation 2 cayman and I was initially looking strictly at the s and pdk. However the more I look the more I could be swayed by the manual and the lesser non s model. I've driven many of the good dsg VW models an like them, plus the mk1 golf I drive is a Great buzz. What's the feeling of here? Is the pdk s model the ultimate, or is the manual s or standard model just as good, with the differences being the obvious, ie. a clutch and slower? Sorry for the obvious questions, but I'd appreciate the feedback from the current owners or those with a little more drive time in these cars? Thanks...

Very much a personal choice. You're better of trying both, rather than seeking opinions.

We were looking at 981 S's earlier this year. I've always had manual sport cars (was coming from a 996T), but said before we make the jump I'd try a pdk to see what they're like. We now have a 981 S pdk. Never looked back. Try both, but make sure you use the pdk in manual sport. I also recently had a day at Silverstone PEC, and driving manual and pdk 991's, I found the pdk noticeably quicker (and still enjoyable).

Like Mr pg I was a dyed in the wool manual man until I tried PDK - (I'd tried and I wasn't convinced by DSG). So you should as has been said definitely try both. Sport manual mode - too boy-racer for me (exaggerated blips on down changes) - however others are very keen so certainly worth trying. If you like it you might like the sports exhaust too. Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 4th December 09:04

Personally I'd go with a manual 'S', for a number of reasons. Firstly, the non-S is a good car, but it's not an S. It's a great drive at 10/10ths, but lacks the mid-range of the S, which for me is a key factor. I've found from personally experience in a number of areas, if I don't buy the one I really want, then sooner or later I'll end up upgrading anyway. Second, for me a Boxster / Cayman is my second car, so I want the involvement of a manual shift. I drive an auto as my daily, but that's a family bus so fun driving isn't on the menu. Finally, PDK is still relatively new. I'd like to know more about its long term reliability and cost of repair / replacement before I committed to purchasing one on the used market.

This question is like asking which is better chicken or fish? You need to try and decide for yourself. I prefer chicken, and the PDK.

Another PDK convert

DavidJG said: PDK is still relatively new. PDK will soon have been out eight years in the Carreras! With no major problems btw.

Guys, all excellent responses, it's giving me a real flavour for both modes. Issue is, I genuinely like both. I know I could live with either and as I flick through the PH ads, autotrader and eBay, the car is likely to be purchased with the gearbox being less of an issue. My wish list seems petty in comparison to am issue like gearbox choice. Ideally I'd like white, half leather (only seen one of these so far), 320bhp, sports seats, satnav, good wheels, white dials and the chrono is an excellent touch, but for me a gimmick. I'd still be glad to hear of more manual v pdk, as at present I'm probably swaying towards pdk, but it wouldn't prevent me buying the right car. Like most things, I set a budget of £15k, but my research has me seriously looking at those in the £28-30k range! I'd best stop looking soon :-0 There are a few that has my interest at present, some more my 'ideal' than others. The car is a second car, could b used for holidays and high days, plus the daily commute.for me, it's a near thirty year old boyhood aspiration that's about to become reality. I'll take recommended vendors of such vehicles too. Thanks again guys! I'm definitely chicken too.

£15k is not enough as you realise I remember getting a loan car from Porsche when my 993 was being serviced It's pdk they said. Oh not auto I said. Oh yes they said. Oh ok then I said Within 20 miles driving from London to Cambridge I was hooked Amazing But I love my manual 993 I love my 991 GT3 pdk No help at all !!!

DJMC said: I had a manual 981 Boxster loan car the other week whilst my PDK was in at my OPC. Within 20 miles driving from Sutton Coldfield to home my left leg fas fhooked! I am a fairly unfit middle aged chunky bloke, but how unfit are you if you cant press a pedal with your leg? Is this the future? No muscles and big thumbs from playing console games?

Bieldside said: £15k is not enough as you realise I remember getting a loan car from Porsche when my 993 was being serviced It's pdk they said. Oh not auto I said. Oh yes they said. Oh ok then I said Within 20 miles driving from London to Cambridge I was hooked Amazing But I love my manual 993 I love my 991 GT3 pdk No help at all !!! I had a manual 981 Boxster loan car the other week whilst my PDK was in at my OPC. Within 20 miles driving from Sutton Coldfield to home my left leg was fhooked! Edited by DJMC on Friday 4th December 23:27

mollytherocker said: I am a fairly unfit middle aged chunky bloke, but how unfit are you if you cant press a pedal with your leg? Is this the future? No muscles and big thumbs from playing console games? Ah, you see it was more of a little joke... but, if you insist... Well, actually I broke my knee and ankle, titanium pin into my knee cap, 5 operations, 46 stitches. Drunk driver knocked me off my motorbike when I was 17. Otherwise, I go to the gym three times a week, 6' 1", 14st, very fit for 55. But that clutch IS a little heavy, even in a base Cayman and for someone with a lovely left leg!

DJMC said: Ah, you see it was more of a little joke... but, if you insist... Well, actually I broke my knee and ankle, titanium pin into my knee cap, 5 operations, 46 stitches. Drunk driver knocked me off my motorbike when I was 17. Otherwise, I go to the gym three times a week, 6' 1", 14st, very fit for 55. But that clutch IS a little heavy, even in a base Cayman and for someone with a lovely left leg! I could tell you about my knee problems and the osgood schlatter disease I had for years and still now suffer from the consequences, but then it would descend into a pissing contest eh? I do 30k a year in my daily diesel and suffer horrendous motorway congestion that leaves me thinking seriously about an auto, but I wont do it. And in my weekend Porsche? Not until my left leg loses all function!

The manual v's PDK question is asked frequently on here and each time it usually causes an argument, best thing to do would be to drive both and see what suits you best, You won't be disappointed by either they are great cars, one might have a pedal missing and you'll wonder what to do with your left leg and the other will be a more involved drive. Happy hunting...

PDK if you tend to fall on the left side of voting, Manual if you tend to vote more blue. (not too far right though they are PDK owners also :-p )

Just another bit of grist to the mill on PDK reliability. While there don't seem to be any particular reliability problems to worry about, I was told by an Indy garage that repair costs were very high, and therefore I'd be better off going manual. Trawling around forums suggests that the only "repair" Porsche do is to replace the whole box. My personal concern is on cars which have spent a lot of time in heavy traffic. Unlike torque-converter autos, PDK clutches are subject wear which isn't helped by the artificially induced creep. In addition an unsympathetic driver could hold the car on a hill against the clutch for long periods, not appreciating that it would cause wear and which, in a manual car, would be regarded as abuse. I took no notice in the end and haven't regretted it (yet).

I glad I asked the question. Th whole auto/manual debate could truly be endless and for good reason. I have an 's tronic' auto box in my A6 tdi and would have anything else in that machine. I have have short ratio manual sports box in my mk1 2.0 16V, which I'd certainly never have anything else in that either. I've placed a deposit on a. Ar that

Oops, bloody smart phones!! I've placed a deposit on a car that meets 99% of my requirements, which is a lot higher than I thought I'd get. White cayman s, all the sport pack goodies, black wheels, chrono etc. And of course, PDK The feedback and responses above gave me the comfort I needed for a decision I had probably already made, but just didn't know. I collect Thursday. Flight from Glasgow to Gatwick and a sedate run North in the new machine. Happy Xmas to me!!! Thanks for the input guys. Trully appreciated.

Oh, original budget was pants. Mor than doubled it! Just wait until her indoors finds out!! :-)

I've had both a manual Cayman S and a manual Boxster S and also a 911 PDK. The PDK wins for ma all the time. However I have a Spyder on order - back to manual no choice. I will still love it though.

I'm in the dog house already, don't pick up until March. They just don't understand do they? I don't moan at her £100 haircut.........

CraigT007 said: Oh, original budget was pants. Mor than doubled it! Just wait until her indoors finds out!! :-) Know how you feel - I was in the doghouse for ages. Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 5th December 16:40

That was for just a cut wash and blow dry surely ? Full colour and style must be £180 ish !! Anyway just tell her you don't need an xmas pressie this year jobs a gooden lol enjoy

Even £180 wouldn't do her many favours. She still looks like Worzel Gummage after a force 8 gale.

wdpor said: I've had both a manual Cayman S and a manual Boxster S and also a 911 PDK. The PDK wins for ma all the time. However I have a Spyder on order - back to manual no choice. I will still love it though. If ever a car was conceived for a 'manuel' gearbox the 981 Spyder is it. PDK has its place, in the appropriate car for sure, but not in this one. You are right, you will love it.

av185 said: If ever a car was conceived for a 'manuel' gearbox the 981 Spyder is it. PDK has its place, in the appropriate car for sure, but not in this one. You are right, you will love it. Frankly don't see what makes the Spyder (or GT4 or GT3 911 for that matter) either specifically PDK or manual. There is a market for both variants of any of these cars. in the case of the GT4 and Spyder it's a case of Porsche trying to make a largely bogus sporting/hardcore "statement" to counteract criticism that they have gone "soft". In doing so they are denying many customers of what they might want.

bcr5784 said: av185 said: If ever a car was conceived for a 'manuel' gearbox the 981 Spyder is it. PDK has its place, in the appropriate car for sure, but not in this one. You are right, you will love it. Frankly don't see what makes the Spyder (or GT4 or GT3 911 for that matter) either specifically PDK or manual. There is a market for both variants of any of these cars. in the case of the GT4 and Spyder it's a case of Porsche trying to make a largely bogus sporting/hardcore "statement" to counteract criticism that they have gone "soft". In doing so they are denying many customers of what they might want. Whilst some, and probably a minority, may have opted for a 'manuel' box in the 991 GT3 if offered, as is the intention with the 911R, most understand that the PDK S is entirely suited to the car and more specifically its fantastic engine, and that is why as a package and at the money, many owners myself included consider it hard to beat. Similarly would a 'manuel' work in a 458. No, and for the same reason. Porsche are unquestionably expert marketeers, and if they thought for one minute the appeal 'bandwidth' therefore profit margins on either the Spyder or GT4 would be substantially enhanced by offering a PDK option, it would be made available. Yes, there would be a minority who want a PDK but as both these cars are niche and 'back to basics' relatively analogue (especially the Spyder) products, the offering of manual only therefore keeping the majority of customers happy has clearly been the right decision reflected in the popularity and premiums for both, not to mention the remarkable Ecoty win for the GT4.

Ha....we seem to have been here before. I am not saying the GT3 engine categorically WOULDN T work with a 'manuel' gearbox but that the ethos of the car and engine together as a package together with the cars increased usability and levels of grip makes it more suited to the PDK S, which, is unquestionably a remarkable gearbox and also betters the F1 gearbox in the 458 by some margin. Subjective, I know but I am a fan of BOTH types of gearboxes, PDK and 'manuel'......but only in the 'right' car and some are more suited to a type of gearbox than others. Just like the GT3 RS in 991 guise with its increased usability is entirely suited to the PDK S. The forthcoming 'manuel' 911R will to a degree hark back to the Carrera GTs analogue basics with smaller section tyres etc etc adding to to the ' involvement'......but this £250k severely limited (12 for the UK?) run 'toy' cannot really be seen as a car for real world driving and most will sadly doubtless end up in collections. Question remains, will Porsche see fit to do the 991.2 GT3 with a 'manuel' box? Somehow I doubt it and I for one wouldn' t be that bothered on the basis that the car suits the next PDK S box as much as the current one does.

Can you explain please exactly why the 991 GT3 specifically is 'suited to a PDK box?' I can make an argument for a Panamera diesel suiting one for its intended purpose, but not a car made for driving pleasure.

But surely most buyers of Panamera diesels drive them for pleasure.....don't they? If not then why not buy a Nissan whatever or Honda CRV. With the GT3, I find the PDK S box never detracts from the pleasure, interaction and overall enjoyment of the car and in many ways perhaps even compliments the overall experience. It is not as if you would necessarily WANT to be changing gear following the revs which climb so quickly. The car is so involving and demands your attention in other ways. Think of an F12 as an extreme case, and a 458 being akin to the GT3. Would a 'manuel' really work in these Ferraris, and would buyers want one....probably not. By way of contrast, a car like the 911 GTS (either 997 or 991) would suit either 'manuel' or PDK imo.

mollytherocker said: I do 30k a year in my daily diesel and suffer horrendous motorway congestion that leaves me thinking seriously about an auto, but I wont do it. Ooh, a diesel manual, and one that will sit in m'way stop start too... oooh... Is there any area where a derv manual is better than an auto? OT I know, but that is some suffering for the cause, if you don't mind me saying.

av185 said: Porsche are unquestionably expert marketeers, and if they thought for one minute the appeal 'bandwidth' therefore profit margins on either the Spyder or GT4 would be substantially enhanced by offering a PDK option, it would be made available. Yes, there would be a minority who want a PDK but as both these cars are niche and 'back to basics' relatively analogue (especially the Spyder) products, the offering of manual only therefore keeping the majority of customers happy has clearly been the right decision reflected in the popularity and premiums for both, not to mention the remarkable Ecoty win for the GT4. Porsche don't WANT to expand the market for those cars, they want to keep them very niche market. If they really did they'd have offered the GTS with the 3.8 engine. I have no doubt there would be large market for that (far larger than for the GT4 or Spyder) . They don't because that would hurt the 911. They want to maintain their street cred (for real sportscars) without hurting the 911. Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 6th December 15:29

Some would argue that the Carreras up to the GTS are now no longer 'sports cars' in the truest sense especially after the introduction of 'turbines' which may well have diluted what the 911s are essentially about from a drivers perspective.

anonymous said: [redacted] The 'analogue' GT4 and Spyder does this for you btw...... Back on the PDK and 991 GT3 I think it is quite telling that out of some 40 to 50 PHers who secured a car only a very small number, perhaps 3 (including Pistolp), did not gel with the gearbox......and a good number of these came from 997 GT3s and RS (clearly 'manuels') and also ran these cars alongside presumably to experience the benefits of both cars and gearboxes.

heebeegeetee said: mollytherocker said: I do 30k a year in my daily diesel and suffer horrendous motorway congestion that leaves me thinking seriously about an auto, but I wont do it. Ooh, a diesel manual, and one that will sit in m'way stop start too... oooh... Is there any area where a derv manual is better than an auto? OT I know, but that is some suffering for the cause, if you don't mind me saying. Its like automotive self harming. The pain releases pleasure.

Ordered the Spyder for a number of reasons, one of the main ones being the extra power of the 3.8 engine. I would have gone PDK if available. I don't think it looses anything in the driving experience for everyday use. Not to say there is anything gets wrong with the Manuel.

Surely if a semi-auto box with paddles is good enough for F1, the clutch and gear stick have long been superseded for "sporty" driving? Those who still hanker for the latter are just pandering to their muscle memory rather than moving with the times. Add in auto shifting for an easy life when you want it, and you have the perfect box in the PDK. Using it in manual today, with gear stick and paddles, it is way better than the equivalent manual imo. I never think, whilst driving the PDK, I wish I was in a manual car. But when driving my wife's manual I often think I'd rather have a PDK in it.

I had this same dilemma when finalising spec. I really love a manual box, I will find the change to PDK strange. At PEC it was really hard not to love the PDK, and I was lucky enough to drive both gearboxes on the day. There was nothing wrong with Manual at all, but PDK gave me so much more focus on steering and feeling the car. Granted, the PEC test tracks are built to show the benefit of PDK, short tight and twisty. Real life roads are nowhere near as engaging unless in the Alps somewhere. I am having my car for European holidays and spirited weekend drives, so PDK made sense to me. The manual did seem long gearing on the PEC test tracks, and I found myself looking for 1st on a lot of the corners. No sooner into second and off the gas and looking for 1st again. I'm not a bad driver, but I was getting a bit tired of it. After years of owning other sports cars, I never had to look for 1st into a tight bend. PDK was so smooth, and after 15 mins of spirited driving it was picking the right gear every time in sport. I had both hands on the wheel and was totally focused on my lines. As I have said on another thread, I may live to regret my PDK decision. No more thin sole shoes looking for the best feel for heal and toe. No more compliments from passenger as you master a perfect downshift. I have lumped a good sum of money up for this car, and fair chunk on finance too. Trust me I know how you are feeing, but the PDK is as good as any auto out there. I have not put my nuts on the line without doing the homework. If i hate it, then it's going to be a costly mistake, but I don't think that's going to happen. It's your call, and both options have their merits. I'm just chucking my 2p in.

Such a subjective choice. My personal view is that in terms of engagement, I would much prefer to drive a PDK car without invasive electronic driver aids that a manual vehicle loaded with them.

PDK with X73 and PTV in sport plus you are on your own anyway in a Cayman/Boxster.

Steve Rance said: Such a subjective choice. My personal view is that in terms of engagement, I would much prefer to drive a PDK car without invasive electronic driver aids that a manual vehicle loaded with them. An interesting thought experiment. I think I would still go for the manual tech-monster, but it would be closer. One point that people often miss in this debate is that a lot of manual boxes aren't worth having - no mechanical interaction, CDV, etc, making them no more fun than a decent automatic. I am not sure that I would choose a BMW manual over a ZF8, to be honest, and I hate the ZF! The point with Porsches is that they still offer pretty good manual boxes and clutches.

anonymous said: [redacted] Read the post below yours then trot off back to the jurassic age. No offence intended. PDK is more enjoyable for driving, manual for reminiscing. F1 drivers don't change gear with a stick and clutch as it takes up time and takes a hand off the wheel. More control, less faffing, equals more driving pleasure imo.

ORD said: The point with Porsches is that they still offer pretty good manual boxes and clutches. But they don't. Case in point....the 'recent' 991 Carrera has a relatively poor 'manuel' box. A clear case for opting for PDK then.

DJMC said: Read the post below yours then trot off back to the jurassic age. No offence intended. PDK is more enjoyable for driving, manual for reminiscing. F1 drivers don't change gear with a stick and clutch as it takes up time and takes a hand off the wheel. More control, less faffing, equals more driving pleasure imo. You must be a terrible driver if you cant spare a hand to change gear. Either that or you are driving at 2-3 times the NSL at all times! F1 drivers are racing. Racing is very different from driving for pleasure on our slow, congested roads.

DJMC said: F1 drivers don't change gear with a stick and clutch . F1 drivers don't drive for pleasure.

av185 said: ORD said: The point with Porsches is that they still offer pretty good manual boxes and clutches. But they don't. Case in point....the 'recent' 991 Carrera has a relatively poor 'manuel' box. A clear case for opting for PDK then. It's all relative. Try a manual box in pretty much any mainstream car. Terrible, even by comparison to the 991 box (which is decent but not great, in my view).

Steve Rance said: Such a subjective choice. My personal view is that in terms of engagement, I would much prefer to drive a PDK car without invasive electronic driver aids that a manual vehicle loaded with them. Fair point, but since electronic stability control has been an eu requirement since 2011, you'll be hard put to find one - certainly not on series production road cars.

ORD said: You must be a terrible driver if you cant spare a hand to change gear. Either that or you are driving at 2-3 times the NSL at all times! F1 drivers are racing. Racing is very different from driving for pleasure on our slow, congested roads. Congested roads = Auto box best = PDK

av185 said: F1 drivers don't drive for pleasure. Ooops, silly me... they're forced to do it aren't they. When I used to race, it was first and foremost for pleasure. F1 drivers are fortunate enough to turn what started as a hobby for most into a very pleasurable career. Pleasure in doing what they love. Pleasure from the competition, the accolades, the lifestyle...

anonymous said: [redacted] Yep. I don't want to be the fastest on the road. I want to be having the most fun possible. PDK actually stresses me out personally as it's just too easy for me to end up driving too fast without the level of awareness/engagement you get with a manual box. I borrowed a cayman R PDK and my overriding feeling was that the car would end me up in trouble. Also, have said it before but there will be plenty more years to "enjoy" a PDK box yet, but how many more of manual? It's no coincidence that the prices of the rare manuals of cars like the F430 are steadily increasing beyond the F1 boxes. If I had a Panamera/sports-barge then PDK would make sense - after all PDK is very good at what it does indeed, but when I want to be fully engaged in the driving experience and drive the car for more than just a means of transport a manual box just adds to that. The manual in the 981 Spyder is the best gear change I've ever experienced. I don't know why changing gear is so satisfying but it is. The refinement of the engineering of what may well be an old technology is just lovely. On a track, a PDK box would probably be better for me as well as it's one less thing to concentrate on while I improve my track driving, but over time I'm sure I'd again want the engagement of the manual and to learn heel/toeing etc. The F1 argument is ridiculous. Why do most of us like mechanical watches again?

anonymous said: [redacted] People have been using the same justification against stuff like fwd or diesel or whatever for decades. TB303 said: Why do most of us like mechanical watches again? Now that is a mystery, because you neither sit in a watch, not operate it as part of it's function, nor integrate with it in any way, so it's an analogy that doesn't work. The *only* reason for mechanical watches, beyond genuinely rare or historic individual pieces, is because snobbery imo.

bcr5784 said: Fair point, but since electronic stability control has been an eu requirement since 2011, you'll be hard put to find one - certainly not on series production road cars. I get that, but thankfully that legislation does not yet encompas torque vectoring, rear wheel steer, abd etc.. These systems do far more to keep the driver further away from engaging with the car than a PDK gearbox. It's a sad day for those who truly seek to engage with a vehicle when a car absolutely laiden with electronic aids is hailed as the second coming because it has a manual gearbox.

heebeegeetee said: Now that is a mystery, because you neither sit in a watch, not operate it as part of it's function, nor integrate with it in any way, so it's an analogy that doesn't work. The *only* reason for mechanical watches, beyond genuinely rare or historic individual pieces, is because snobbery imo. A mechanical watch that requires winding or has an automatic movement that is not only owned because it's historic or for snobbery. That is a matter of judgement on your part. There are many things we engage with in the world that could be made easier or done more efficiently/automatically. That is the basis for the analogy, not sitting in it! Well done for working out that you don't sit in a watch, though

anonymous said: [redacted] Fair point. I do tend to mince about a bit on the road - still like to feel what i'm driving under me though. Can tell an electronic warror a mile off. Prefer manual to PDK on road but not interested in the slighted with anything electronicly aided. most of my biggest moments on track were caused by electronic interference.

anonymous said: [redacted] I really don't see what having a clutch pedal has to do with "flow and balance"? If I choose to do some manual driving with PDK, I have the ability to change gear at the precise moment I wish to, the same as in a manual car (well, a little bit quicker and more cleanly) so what do you think the difference is? I dare say I can change up or down two gears more quickly than with a manual box and also keep my foot down whilst doing so. The minority of people (that must prove something? Yes, I know, PDK owners are all "lazy" or missng a trick) who buy manual Porsches these days are harking back to days of yore. I recall them too, I had manual cars for 36 years before seeing the light. I imagine most Porsche buyers today have a good many decades in manual cars too, but now prefer PDK. Are the masses likely to be so very wrong? Are they all uninformed morons who prefer a dreadful drive to a wonderful one? No, they, we, are taking advantage of one of the most driver focused and driver friendly innovations for the ultimate hands on (note: not "hand" on) experiences motoring can bring.

DJMC said: I really don't see what having a clutch pedal has to do with "flow and balance"? If I choose to do some manual driving with PDK, I have the ability to change gear at the precise moment I wish to, the same as in a manual car (well, a little bit quicker and more cleanly) so what do you think the difference is? I dare say I can change up or down two gears more quickly than with a manual box and also keep my foot down whilst doing so. The minority of people (that must prove something? Yes, I know, PDK owners are all "lazy" or missng a trick) who buy manual Porsches these days are harking back to days of yore. I recall them too, I had manual cars for 36 years before seeing the light. I imagine most Porsche buyers today have a good many decades in manual cars too, but now prefer PDK. Are the masses likely to be so very wrong? Are they all uninformed morons who prefer a dreadful drive to a wonderful one? No, they, we, are taking advantage of one of the most driver focused and driver friendly innovations for the ultimate hands on (note: not "hand" on) experiences motoring can bring. You really don't get it. It is not "hands on" - the car changes gear for you: it manages the revs and operates the clutches (timing and speed of engagement); it will even override your input if it disagrees with it, so you are suggesting a gear change rather than making one. By your reasoning, we should embrace self-steering cars because that would give us more time to focus on braking and accelerating.

anonymous said: [redacted] Exactly, well summed up!

I'll just leave this here http://petrolicious.com/films/7-minutes-of-pure-fe... It's 7 minutes long but it's over far too quickly....

Manual all the way for me. It doesn't matter how clever, quick or reliable an auto is, it misses one vital component of interaction, that being a left pedal. I love being able to judge the bite coming onto a roundabout for example, or a quick stir of the lever on a tight B road bend. I also much prefer the control when the weather turns crappy, eg dial in a tiny amount of bite in a high gear, feel what the rear is doing and dip the clutch if necessary to regain control. To summarise I'd feel I'd have to compromise by going auto whereas there is no compromise with a manual in my opinion. I know some refer to them being a pain in congested traffic, but not once have I ever thought I'd want to be in an auto, I just don't find it a chore, and actually enjoy, to move my left leg and hand during traffic. It's a personal choice and one which I imagine I won't be able to make for much longer as the shift, pardon the pun, does seem to be towards autos.