ECU tune a 718 2.0ltr? - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

https://youtu.be/igAHqPc3j4E With a ~20% increase in power and torque from a simple remap done by merely plugging a laptop into the OBD2 port it seems to me that you can turn a bass Cayman into something that has the performance of a 911Turbo from 15 years ago. That’s quite some progress, When 718s dip below £30k and are no longer warrantyable I might be interested in pursuing this avenue.

Would doing an ECU tune invalidate any warranties etc? Got a new base 718C and thinking of doing this after 6 months.

On a new car warranty Porsche would need to prove that your re-map caused an engine issue, if you had one. I don't think that would be too difficult for them, probably stating the engine was operating outside of their testing tolerances etc. You'd also put your car at risk of never being eligible for an extended Porsche warranty as an ECU check would show the current, or previous re-map. Resale would be affected if that's the case. I'd only do it on a car that was a keeper, or had some other reason why an extended warranty wasn't possible e.g. second hand car bought cheap with existing mods etc. Otherwise you're throwing money down the toilet for the sake of a few BHP.

Ok, not doing it thanks. Although I am handing it back as it’s a 3y PCP, but I don’t like to do anything outside the constraints of the warranty.

Nodding and improving your Porsche is a big part of the culture in many markets including Germany. The U.K. seems a bit anal in keeping everything standard and focusing on building the perfect spec and options combo. Given that a two seat sports car is a pure leisure item and not an investment vehicle I have no hesitation in customising and improving mine.

That's all fine, but you need to be aware of what it means to warranties and future values.

I never bother with warranties and as a source of fun/enjoyment I don’t particularly care about maxing the residuals. If I did then I’d leave the money invested rather than spend it on a two seat penis extension. I’m partially out of Porsche ownership in the U.K. because the scene seems to be full of types that don’t actually love driving but spend inordinate amounts of attention on the minutiae of spec, finish, polish, finance, residuals, trim and image. The numbers of Porsche buyers who actually want to beast the car and give it a damn good thrashing on a regular basis just for the fun of doing so seems small.

I'm not talking about maxing residuals, I'm talking about making your car worth substantially less than a standard one. You may even find dealers won't buy the car if they know the ECU has been messed with. You may not care about losing £000s, but others might.

Honeywell said: Nodding and improving your Porsche is a big part of the culture in many markets including Germany. The U.K. seems a bit anal in keeping everything standard and focusing on building the perfect spec and options combo. Given that a two seat sports car is a pure leisure item and not an investment vehicle I have no hesitation in customising and improving mine. Excellent outlook (genuinely not being saracstic) Respect.

So what that video doesn't tell you is a lot of things. They make it sound so simple - just flash the port, remote tuning and so on. It isn't. Firstly on the latest 991.2/718 platforms the ODB Port is blocked. You cannot plug a cable in. They mention 'unlock' in the video - what that means is that you can only use the ODB Port after the port is unlocked. To do that you have to remove the ECU, open it up, then run a special program to unlock the ODB. Then you can use a device such as my genius etc to read and write to the ECU. So why is that important? Because let's say you want to return to stock before a visit to OPC - well then it will be open and visible, or if it is done as we do, you create the base program copy before unlocking, but then it will need to be unlocked again after your visit. So not as simple as it suggests.

I wouldn’t be using an OPC or trying to conceal the remap. https://youtu.be/Rg8xFlURy_4 Nick Murray seemed to get the best part of a $70,000 more expensive Turbo out of his remap... Hell even Ford is running 17Psi turbocharges these days on their mass produced lumps.

Twinfan said: I'm not talking about maxing residuals, I'm talking about making your car worth substantially less than a standard one. You may even find dealers won't buy the car if they know the ECU has been messed with. You may not care about losing £000s, but others might. Couldn’t agree more Twinfan. Buy a £50k plus car and then throw away the warranty and residual value? Nuts - to me anyway. All this is telling me is this kind of meddling simply means the owner has bought the wrong car in the first place.

dreamcar said: Couldn’t agree more Twinfan. Buy a £50k plus car and then throw away the warranty and residual value? Nuts - to me anyway. All this is telling me is this kind of meddling simply means the owner has bought the wrong car in the first place. Am Anfang schaute ich mich um, konnte aber den Wagen, von dem ich träumte, nicht finden. Also beschloss ich, ihn mir selber zu bauen Quote: 'Ferry' Porsche

I’m an engineer - albeit not automotive - but i’ve witnessed many times what can happen when someone thinks they know better than the OEM - and it usually ends in tears.

dreamcar said: I’m an engineer - albeit not automotive - but i’ve witnessed many times what can happen when someone thinks they know better than the OEM - and it usually ends in tears. Frankly, that's rubbish - ECU tuning is a tried and tested method of safely increasing power these days.

dreamcar said: I’m an engineer - albeit not automotive - but i’ve witnessed many times what can happen when someone thinks they know better than the OEM - and it usually ends in tears. The OEM end of automotive industry is strangled by legislation to meet emission, noise... regs. Internally the finance dept limits much of the engineers potential. In the UK you may be correct in that much of the aftermarket world is completely unregulated and anything goes however most looking to modify, will know or will search for trusted respectable companies. In Germany and much of the EU, all tuning is stringently regulated, so if the parts are approved, they meet the same standards that the OEM manufacturer has to abide by. Go have a look at a RUF, Singer, Tuthill, 9E, RPM CSR conversion, you may find they know what they are doing and are more than a match for OEM. I'm not suggesting that OEM are not capable just that they are limited. The companies mentioned above remove those limits and produce what OEM should have done in the first place

A four year old 718 hasn’t got much of a warranty worth having anyway. It’s already depreciated by half. If you plan on keeping it for a decade/forever then it’s residual value is of Supreme indifference. If your own it you can do what you like with it including remapping it and it and redecorating it. The 718 is already something of a weapon compared to earlier incarnations. Boosting it a further ~20% starts to get you into auoercar territory for <£30k soon. That’s never been the case before and I find it interesting. Unlike something such as a hot Golf which has already been taken by the factory from standard to a high state of tune most of the components in a 718 are already engineered to the same standards as the 911 which is a 180mph car from the start.

gtsralph said: Am Anfang schaute ich mich um, konnte aber den Wagen, von dem ich träumte, nicht finden. Also beschloss ich, ihn mir selber zu bauen Quote: 'Ferry' Porsche Fantastic

homerdog said: dreamcar said: I’m an engineer - albeit not automotive - but i’ve witnessed many times what can happen when someone thinks they know better than the OEM - and it usually ends in tears. Frankly, that's rubbish - ECU tuning is a tried and tested method of safely increasing power these days. Well you feel free, tune your car and play Russian roulette with your money. Just don’t expect Porsche to pick up the bill over any issues!

dreamcar said: Well you feel free, tune your car and play Russian roulette with your money. Just don’t expect Porsche to pick up the bill over any issues! I have tuned many cars, it's a non issue, most cars have flat spots in them to pass noise and co2 regs, a remaps not always about peak power. my TTRS was flawless at 430BHP for 3 years and what a rocket that was, I also mapped my Exige and my Fiesta ST The only modern issue with maps is cars are made to a price and BHP level so if you tune too much you might need a better clutch. I would say a massive % of people owned mapped cars and don't know as too many people map VAG brands and BMW D. as for porkers, most lower models are detuned so you know you can tune it back to the the top models, it's just a map. BMW have 316,318,320 it's fake now days they are all the same engine size but with a map !!!

Is it really true that in the UK you can basically tune your car to whatever you like?? Over here in Switzerland they are much, much more strict regarding tuning. You need a type approval for every increase in power. This certificate can be obtained at vast costs. It is divided in 3 stages: 1. < 20% increase in output 2. 20-40 % increase in output 3. > 40% increase in output Even the first stage will cost you in excess of 5k £ and several months. Of course you have to meet all the emission regulations, etc. The >40% increase in power basically means a complete new type approval as if you'd built a car from scratch. Go figure what this will cost you! A Tuner only needs to do this once of course and sell the chip with the certificate. But it needs to be done for every car; engine; drivetrain; bodytype (not sure); configuration separately. You can't use the one from an Audi TT for your VW Golf, although they are the exact same engine and drivetrain, for example. This is why (chip-)tuning is horrendously expensive over here! You void your type approval and thus your insurance if you have an illegally tuned car! Imagine having an accident where the other party will need medical treatment for the rest of their life (touch wood). Your insurance will not pay out because your car is not road legal. You will be handing over every single penny you earn for the rest of your life to them, just because you wanted some more horses... Not worth it!! From a respectable tuner, yes, anytime!! So are there really no boundaries in the UK regarding tuning? I know you have to inform your insurer (some are more relaxed than others I hear) but regarding your type approval is it really no problem??

Filibuster said: Is it really true that in the UK you can basically tune your car to whatever you like?? ... So are there really no boundaries in the UK regarding tuning? I know you have to inform your insurer (some are more relaxed than others I hear) but regarding your type approval is it really no problem?? Correct. As long as the car passes an annual MOT test, you can do what you want.

Twinfan said: Correct. As long as the car passes an annual MOT test, you can do what you want. old cars don't even need an MOT now which is mental !!!!

Twinfan said: Filibuster said: Is it really true that in the UK you can basically tune your car to whatever you like?? ... So are there really no boundaries in the UK regarding tuning? I know you have to inform your insurer (some are more relaxed than others I hear) but regarding your type approval is it really no problem?? Correct. As long as the car passes an annual MOT test, you can do what you want. Wow! That is great!! And all your C02 taxing system basically doesn't matter? Because over here in Switzerland, theoretically you could be accused of tax fraud because your car emits more CO2 than you are paying taxes for. Another reason why road taxes should purely be based on the size (footprint) and weight of your car. Taxes based on CO2 should only be put on petrol and diesel, as this is the only accurate taxing on fuel consumption.

Only the car spec when it was new matters - after that, game on

Filibuster said: Wow! That is great!! And all your C02 taxing system basically doesn't matter? Because over here in Switzerland, theoretically you could be accused of tax fraud because your car emits more CO2 than you are paying taxes for. Another reason why road taxes should purely be based on the size (footprint) and weight of your car. Taxes based on CO2 should only be put on petrol and diesel, as this is the only accurate taxing on fuel consumption. I think the manufacturer already fake the co2 lol as for road TAX, it's an out dated system, add TAX to petrol, it's a simple solution ie you drive more you pay more TAX !!!! nothing fairer than that.

Porsche911R said: I think the manufacturer already fake the co2 lol as for road TAX, it's an out dated system, add TAX to petrol, it's a simple solution ie you drive more you pay more TAX !!!! nothing fairer than that. hmmm... is that a broad hint I'm wrongly using the plural of TAX when not necessary?? (much appreciated, I eager to improve my english all the time!) Oh, and I'm absolutely with you regarding road TAX!

Porsche911R said: I think the manufacturer already fake the co2 lol as for road TAX, it's an out dated system, add TAX to petrol, it's a simple solution ie you drive more you pay more TAX !!!! nothing fairer than that. For every winner there is a loser. In this case enthusiasts who drive their cars pay more than 'collectors' who sell a 200 mile 3 year old car for an untaxed profit. Paying for usage is OK in principle but should profit on such sales be untaxed?

The 400bhp Boxster is achievable for the price of the stereo upgrade plus 18 way Seats. http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/718-boxster/19188/tec... The 993 Turbo had 402bhp....

gtsralph said: For every winner there is a loser. In this case enthusiasts who drive their cars pay more than 'collectors' who sell a 200 mile 3 year old car for an untaxed profit. Paying for usage is OK in principle but should profit on such sales be untaxed? it's a small market, profit on private sales over road tax ! and not possible to put anything into place easy. Tax on fuel is easy and fair. Also a collector will be paying £2k 1st to tax a car and £540 a year there after so a 10 car collection nets £20k in tax and £5,400 year after year. lets not work out the VAT on that collection also paid ! As it's road tax only paying for road use is again fair. I did 200 miles in my 987 Spyder last year but paid the same tax on that car as a rep doing 45k miles in that BMW !!! I also have 5 cars so my road tax is mental PA these cars for cars to sit about unused. Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 18th May 11:04

Porsche911R said: it's a small market, profit on private sales over road tax ! and not possible to put anything into place easy. Tax on fuel is easy and fair. Also a collector will be paying £2k 1st to tax a car and £540 a year there after so a 10 car collection nets £20k in tax and £5,400 year after year. lets not work out the VAT on that collection also paid ! As it's road tax only paying for road use is again fair. I did 200 miles in my 987 Spyder last year but paid the same tax on that car as a rep doing 45k miles in that BMW !!! I also have 5 cars so my road tax is mental PA these cars for cars to sit about unused. Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 18th May 11:04 Valid perspective but with 5 cars you’d save and be a winner and with my 2 I’d lose.

gtsralph said: Valid perspective but with 5 cars you’d save and be a winner and with my 2 I’d lose. I am not looking at it from winners and losers. I am looking at it being fair use. not sure any one would loose really.

dreamcar said: Well you feel free, tune your car and play Russian roulette with your money. Just don’t expect Porsche to pick up the bill over any issues! I've owned plenty of tuned cars over the years and never had a problem with any of them, nor with the dealers who have had to fix faults that have nothing to do with the tuning. But thanks for the patronising lecture!

Filibuster said: Is it really true that in the UK you can basically tune your car to whatever you like?? Over here in Switzerland they are much, much more strict regarding tuning. You need a type approval for every increase in power. This certificate can be obtained at vast costs. It is divided in 3 stages: 1. < 20% increase in output 2. 20-40 % increase in output 3. > 40% increase in output Even the first stage will cost you in excess of 5k £ and several months. Of course you have to meet all the emission regulations, etc. The >40% increase in power basically means a complete new type approval as if you'd built a car from scratch. Go figure what this will cost you! A Tuner only needs to do this once of course and sell the chip with the certificate. But it needs to be done for every car; engine; drivetrain; bodytype (not sure); configuration separately. You can't use the one from an Audi TT for your VW Golf, although they are the exact same engine and drivetrain, for example. This is why (chip-)tuning is horrendously expensive over here! You void your type approval and thus your insurance if you have an illegally tuned car! Imagine having an accident where the other party will need medical treatment for the rest of their life (touch wood). Your insurance will not pay out because your car is not road legal. You will be handing over every single penny you earn for the rest of your life to them, just because you wanted some more horses... Not worth it!! From a respectable tuner, yes, anytime!! So are there really no boundaries in the UK regarding tuning? I know you have to inform your insurer (some are more relaxed than others I hear) but regarding your type approval is it really no problem?? How would anyone know ? With all the remote via email tuning that is available these days that come with a gadget to put it all back to stock I cant see how anyone would find out ?

Far Cough said: How would anyone know ? With all the remote via email tuning that is available these days that come with a gadget to put it all back to stock I cant see how anyone would find out ? In a severe accident, your vehicle gets taken by the police and inspected for road worthiness. Plugging in a laptop and checking for any fault/log data would be fairly standard procedure today, or so I would have thought. If using a tuning box, it is even more easy to spot. Granted these are all minimal chances, and you'd have to be extremely unlucky, but my point still stands. And of course they would make an example of you in order to scare off others. At the end of the day it simply comes down to being illegal.

dreamcar said: Well you feel free, tune your car and play Russian roulette with your money. Just don’t expect Porsche to pick up the bill over any issues! I had a Remap, intercooler and decat downpipes on my 2008 335i twin turbo version, ran a tune from 30k miles to 90k miles. Never had a problem and it ran strongly when i sold it. Maintainece plays a big part for the engine. So modern ECU tuning isn’t as dangerous as you might think.

homerdog said: dreamcar said: Well you feel free, tune your car and play Russian roulette with your money. Just don’t expect Porsche to pick up the bill over any issues! I've owned plenty of tuned cars over the years and never had a problem with any of them, nor with the dealers who have had to fix faults that have nothing to do with the tuning. But thanks for the patronising lecture! I’m not being patronising by disagreeing surely? Usual Pistonheads insults when someone disagrees! Regarding warranty claims, as an example the dynamic power train mounts have a history of failing in these cars, i’ve had one go and know several others that have. The cost of replacement by a Porsche dealer is around £1,200. You take your modded car into them for a warranty claim for this failure, they will check for any engine mods and if found - well Porsche won’t be paying.

dreamcar said: I’m not being patronising by disagreeing surely? Usual Pistonheads insults when someone disagrees! Regarding warranty claims, as an example the dynamic power train mounts have a history of failing in these cars, i’ve had one go and know several others that have. The cost of replacement by a Porsche dealer is around £1,200. You take your modded car into them for a warranty claim for this failure, they will check for any engine mods and if found - well Porsche won’t be paying. Surely those who mod wouldn’t expect warranty to pay for anything that is modifield. The term Pay to play comes to mind. There is always risk involved. The dynamic mounts failing, how much would take be cause by a 10% increase in engine power? Anyway I’ve been looking at Techart techtronic powerkit and it cost like 2.9k Euro and they take over the warranty for engine and drive train. Maybe that is worth it?

I’m never convinced the warranty is worth the money once the car is over 3 years old. It’s just an insurance product and it wouldn’t be offered unless on average more got paid out than got paid in... Little point in tuning a NA Porsche but the new fourand six cylinder turbos offer a big gain for not much pain. It seems like the abritish OPC network has the customer base tightly held on a short leash to the point where dealers tell customers what to option, only allow certain customers to buy certain cars and act with disdain to anything a few years old or modified. It’s not the most appealing aspect of the brand to be honest.

dreamcar said: I’m not being patronising by disagreeing surely? Your comment was the very definition of patronising! Which is fine, you can say what you like, but try not to get upset when I point it out!

Honeywell said: I never bother with warranties and as a source of fun/enjoyment I don’t particularly care about maxing the residuals. If I did then I’d leave the money invested rather than spend it on a two seat penis extension. I’m partially out of Porsche ownership in the U.K. because the scene seems to be full of types that don’t actually love driving but spend inordinate amounts of attention on the minutiae of spec, finish, polish, finance, residuals, trim and image. The numbers of Porsche buyers who actually want to beast the car and give it a damn good thrashing on a regular basis just for the fun of doing so seems small. Although I am a bit more 'live and let live' about it and less trying to categorise the whole of the Porsche ownership, I pretty much agree with the sentiment that too many people seem to be less bothered about the driving of these types of cars and more about retaining value and specification. Hell, I went from 7 years of Chimaera ownership to now nearly four years of Cayman ownership purely because of the driving experience. I may well go back to TVR as it is a different (more challenging) experience but no less fun. At the moment I just want to get out in the Cayman every day! JM

So... has anybody actually done this, or are you all cowering in the corner terrified of voiding warranties ? I notice 9e have a stage 1 tune which will take the base 2.0 up to 390ps. Would be interested in any feedback if anyone has actually tried one. https://www.nineexcellence.com/porsche-upgrades/po...

i noticed that the video in the first post did not mention max boost or anything for that matter about boost AFTER the tune. i would think i would want to know how much boost was being run to get those post-tune numbers. after all, engines are designed, especially those that will run with a turbocharger, and tested with limits as to how much boost they can safely tolerate. not only WRT performance but also for reliability and longevity.

Why wasn't the T versions given a little more BHP say 10 15 BHP if it's a simple safe remap Would make sense to have done this to the T versions as it's a little bit different it was done on previous different versions of Porsches.

I certainly wouldn't "just remap" a car without some serious engine work. Most of the big tuners out there also use uprated components inside the engine, rather than just changing the map... Here's a couple of recent ones who didn't: https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... Both remaps on engines that 'should' have been able to take it. I've mentioned the BMW N55 on other threads & forums. In standard form it makes 305 bhp in most applications. For the M2OG, BMW uprated it to 365 bhp. Their changes included a new crankshaft, new rods, different oiling, etc., etc., Yet some folks remap the standard engine to over 400bhp, without any mods. Despite BMW thinking it needed mods to take just 365.

Ok thanks. I'll take that as either no one admitting to; or no one actually having done it. Shame as the tunes seem quite popular in the US.

Lexington59 said: Ok thanks. I'll take that as either no one admitting to; or no one actually having done it. Shame as the tunes seem quite popular in the US. A recent check showed us that only 1 in 10 frequent Porsche forums ( sample set of 50 customers in a row ). I can assure you there are plenty of 2.0 and 2.5l cars that have had the upgrade you mentioned. Plus the knowledge that we did 7500 miles of track and hard testing including top speed runs to prove the concept and reliability. Our 9e 2.5l version beat the gt4 on track at Portamio set by WR. https://youtu.be/XomiEI4TX0Q Only a tune, no geo or anything. Stock brakes which were useless after 2 laps. Final version https://youtu.be/eU4bAdryLUU Hope that helps. Edited by Nineexcellence1 on Friday 15th October 15:53