Must have options GTS - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

When prices soften on outgoing 4 cylinder GTS I will make a purchase. What are the must have options to protect value ? And which are nice to have ? Thank you. Previously owned a GT4 which was just a bit too hardcore for my daily use

A six cylinder engine.

cc3 said: When prices soften on outgoing 4 cylinder GTS T Boy oh boy are they going to soften, in fact soften isn't really a strong enough verb for whats going to happen to the 2.5 GTS once the 4.0ltr GTS hits the roads. It's a real kick in the nuts for anyone who has bought one at or near list recently and isn't really fair at all. It's going to be a real performance bargain though pretty soon, and if you don't mind the four pot noise then you are going to have a result.

GTS interior would be a must and I personally would would make sure the -20mm PASM was optioned plus PTV (if that wasn't standard on the F4T GTS) along with the 981-style fixed buckets. I'd avoid PCCBs for replacement cost reasons unless you're goinn to immediately switch them out for steel discs and matching pads. However, if you want something as daily or to cruise around in you may feel differently!

Budflicker said: cc3 said: When prices soften on outgoing 4 cylinder GTS T Boy oh boy are they going to soften, in fact soften isn't really a strong enough verb for whats going to happen to the 2.5 GTS once the 4.0ltr GTS hits the roads. It's a real kick in the nuts for anyone who has bought one at or near list recently and isn't really fair at all. It's going to be a real performance bargain though pretty soon, and if you don't mind the four pot noise then you are going to have a result. This. Values will drop like a stone. The four pot sounds pretty naff compared to the howling six..

Budflicker said: Boy oh boy are they going to soften Let's ignore the usual forum 'conjecture' for a minute as people salivate over hypothetical 718 GTS price falls. Per a couple of OPCs I spoke to today it seems they are only making the 4.0 in very small numbers indeed. A fire sale of 718 GTS's is not going to happen anytime soon. A shame, as I too would love to get my hands on one of these great cars on the cheap.

A1VDY said: This. Values will drop like a stone. The four pot sounds pretty naff compared to the howling six.. in my opinion FTFY

Having owned a 718 GTS, i would also say that the must have option is a 6 cylinder engine. In fact I sold it after a couple of thousand miles cos that engine is an abomination, and I've ordered another 718 GTS with the correct engine, the na flat six. Those flat 4 s will be cheap as chips soon on the used market. But no matter how cheap they get, the engine will still be sh!t and a disappointment, even when the cars are 15k.

Twinfan said: I'd avoid PCCBs for replacement cost reasons unless you're goinn to immediately switch them out for steel discs! I doubt many people would spec pccbs on a 4-cylinder 718, although they would be very desirable on the forthcoming 6-cylinder model. What I don’t understand is the comment about replacement costs. In road use, they should last well over 100k mls, with all the associated benefits, so at worst they are probably cost neutral.

I’m not sure why people slate the 718 S turbo engine SO much. I’ve lived with it for over 2 years and indeed it doesn’t sound anything like as lovely as a 981 GTS. BUT and it’s a big BUT, the engine is hugely effective. The torque and outright performance mated to the PDK is devastating on a twisty A road. Throttle response is also great for turbo engine as lag really isn’t there. Never have I wanted for more power in the car but I certainly have an attraction towards that 4.0 hence my order in for one. Everything else about the 718 is better over the previous car so on that basis I can’t see how the arse will fall out of values. They are fantastic sports cars still and that’s the reality.

Schmed said: Let's ignore the usual forum 'conjecture' for a minute as people salivate over hypothetical 718 GTS price falls. Per a couple of OPCs I spoke to today it seems they are only making the 4.0 in very small numbers indeed. A fire sale of 718 GTS's is not going to happen anytime soon. A shame, as I too would love to get my hands on one of these great cars on the cheap. Well you actually ignored the main part of my post whereby i suggested this was a kick for buyers of these cars at list and that a real performance bargain was going to be had by used buyers. but lets not let the facts get in the way of starting a row about 718's eh Schmed! The 718 GTS is open to anyone andf not limited at all, in fact several posters today have confirmed that they have abandoned waiting for a GT4/Spyder slot and placed orders for a 4ltr GTS today without any fuss at all so these will be in fairly mainstream numbers by Porsche standards. Edited by Budflicker on Tuesday 21st January 19:07

Values of all of these Porsche cars will plummet in around 10 years when ICE cars are banned from the road. It is inevitable as far as I can see. Sad but perhaps true Can any of honestly see us being allowed to drive ICE cars for much longer than that????

Yeah of course we will, we will just be taxed more on them. Man made climate change is a lie being told so often by so many, that people believe it to be the truth when repeating it. It's a control/taxation medium being employed by those that rule us that are ruled. It's the new religion as christianity declines in the western world. Goebbels would be proud of the effectiveness of the propaganda.

Budflicker said: Yeah of course we will, we will just be taxed more on them. Man made climate change is a lie being told so often by so many, that people believe it to be the truth when repeating it. It's a control/taxation medium being employed by those that rule us that are ruled. It's the new religion as christianity declines in the western world. Goebbels would be proud of the effectiveness of the propaganda. You're not far wrong. Amazing how gullible people can be. Bit like the diesel nonsense. Go buy diesel not petrol. It's the future. Go buy electric it's the future. b ks is it

Budflicker said: Yeah of course we will, we will just be taxed more on them. Man made climate change is a lie being told so often by so many, that people believe it to be the truth when repeating it. It's a control/taxation medium being employed by those that rule us that are ruled. It's the new religion as christianity declines in the western world. Goebbels would be proud of the effectiveness of the propaganda. And Trump is your prophet?

bcr5784 said: And Trump is your prophet? No Trumps a pratt. He was just a little bit less bad than the Opposition in the 2016 election. If the Democrat party can field a credible opponent in 2020 they could win. Its finding a credible candidate amongst them that is proving the tricky bit. Anyway this is going well off topic, sorry OP. GTS interior pack with deviated red stitching would be the must have option for me.

Budflicker said: No Trumps a pratt. He was just a little bit less bad than the Opposition in the 2016 election. If the Democrat party can field a credible opponent in 2020 they could win. Its finding a credible candidate amongst them that is proving the tricky bit. Anyway this is going well off topic, sorry OP. GTS interior pack with deviated red stitching would be the must have option for me. Unfortunately for the elites, the vast majority of Americans don't live in the uber liberal enclaves of the East and West Coast, but in the thousands of miles in between where Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren are as relevant as bacon sandwiches in a mosque. P.S. I'd go red stitch too

Koln-RS said: I doubt many people would spec pccbs on a 4-cylinder 718, although they would be very desirable on the forthcoming 6-cylinder model. What I don’t understand is the comment about replacement costs. In road use, they should last well over 100k mls, with all the associated benefits, so at worst they are probably cost neutral. Why would the engine change the desirability of PCCBs? I've said it before that replacement due to damage is my issue with PCCBs - chips, scrapes etc. Plus if you want to run an extended warranty you'll need to ensure they're in tip-top condition for the 111-point check. What about at trade-in time if Porsche say they need replacing too - will you get screwed over on your part-ex? Based on all the above I don't think they're worth having, but everyone has their own opinion

PASM 20 mm ok on speed humps ? Is that the same ride height as GT4?

cc3 said: PASM 20 mm ok on speed humps ? Is that the same ride height as GT4? GT4s are -30mm

Twinfan said: Koln-RS said: I doubt many people would spec pccbs on a 4-cylinder 718, although they would be very desirable on the forthcoming 6-cylinder model. What I don’t understand is the comment about replacement costs. In road use, they should last well over 100k mls, with all the associated benefits, so at worst they are probably cost neutral. Why would the engine change the desirability of PCCBs? I've said it before that replacement due to damage is my issue with PCCBs - chips, scrapes etc. Plus if you want to run an extended warranty you'll need to ensure they're in tip-top condition for the 111-point check. What about at trade-in time if Porsche say they need replacing too - will you get screwed over on your part-ex? Based on all the above I don't think they're worth having, but everyone has their own opinion My comment was based on the new 718/6 GTS being much more desirable and closer to the GT models, where buyers tend to specify Pccbs. As I said, they should not wear out in normal road use until way into six-figure mileages. In the unlikely event they get damaged you claim on your insurance, as with any other accidental damage. Edited by Koln-RS on Tuesday 21st January 21:16

Koln-RS said: My comment was based on the new 718/6 GTS being much more desirable and closer to the GT models, where buyers tend to specify Pccbs. As I said, they should not wear out in normal road use until way into six-figure mileages. In the unlikely event they get damaged you claim on your insurance, as with any other accidental damage. The GTS 4.0 is no closer to the GT4 than the 981 GTS or 718 GTS was, no GT chassis, aero or electronic set up. I'd like to see someone successfully claim off their insurance for both sides discs and pads replacement if one PCCB disc gets damaged given that they're consumables.

cc3 said: PASM 20 mm ok on speed humps ? Is that the same ride height as GT4? Depends where you are. When I had the 981 with X73, it was a gamble going over central London speed bumps. Parking face on to a kerb needed a bit of attention as well.

Twinfan said: The GTS 4.0 is no closer to the GT4 than the 981 GTS or 718 GTS was, no GT chassis, aero or electronic set up. Well, except the engine that is. Dunc.

dunc_sx said: Well, except the engine that is. Dunc. Of course, but the 981 GT4 basically had the 3.4 from the GTS in 3.8ltr form. The 718 engines are obviously very similar too, albeit the GTS has 20bhp and 200 revs less. I don't see that the 718 GTS 4.0 is substantially closer to a GT car, but I guess the journo reviews may say otherwise when they arrive

ClubsportStr said: The OPC are not going to devalue the gts 4 cylinders for 2 reasons . 1. If the devalue the gts the other 4’s will be devalued and they are still be trying to sell them. 2. Every Car will be returned at the end of the PCP deals and the OPC will take a hit on every car Just my option. Interesting point about end of CPC returns and the trickle down effect on the non GTS prices. In answer to the OP question, I'd be buying a bare bones one as cheap as possible, put loads of miles on it and just enjoy the drive. Looking at OPC lightly used prices, some are still listed at £75k??!? I know a New lightly specced 6 pot GTS will exceed that quickly but I can only assume they're waiting for a buyer that's been hiding under a stone the last few months and knows nothing about the 6 pot they can order...

Think I'd maybe save a bit on the interior and go for the sport tec interior, it gives grey stitching and is a good bit less than GTS interior. Apologies for bringing up stitching, l just think the coloured options have had their day, a bit like black wheels! Unlike other GTS badged cars, the usp of this car is the 4l engine. People buying it want the 6NA, not particularly a GTS. Hence I wouldn't get too hung up with historically essential GTS options - ie the expensive interior.

Andyoz said: Interesting point about end of CPC returns and the trickle down effect on the non GTS prices. In answer to the OP question, I'd be buying a bare bones one as cheap as possible, put loads of miles on it and just enjoy the drive. Looking at OPC lightly used prices, some are still listed at £75k??!? I know a New lightly specced 6 pot GTS will exceed that quickly but I can only assume they're waiting for a buyer that's been hiding under a stone the last few months and knows nothing about the 6 pot they can order... The 6 pot isn't the be all and end all to Porsche ownership, and this conversation is getting quite tedious. Ask Porsche for a finance quote and you'll be pleasantly surprised by what they'll offer back on a F4T Cayman GTS after 3 years. It's hilarious that now the F6NA engine is coming to the GTS that the journo's are finally acknowledging just how good the 718 chassis' are. All very laughable, IMHO.

Porsche have never sold more than 500 of either 981 or 718 guise, its not going to be a huge seller? Prices will be high for a while and people dont like waiting so they look elsewhere in the range for a possible bargain?

Fnumber1user said: Andyoz said: Interesting point about end of CPC returns and the trickle down effect on the non GTS prices. In answer to the OP question, I'd be buying a bare bones one as cheap as possible, put loads of miles on it and just enjoy the drive. Looking at OPC lightly used prices, some are still listed at £75k??!? I know a New lightly specced 6 pot GTS will exceed that quickly but I can only assume they're waiting for a buyer that's been hiding under a stone the last few months and knows nothing about the 6 pot they can order... The 6 pot isn't the be all and end all to Porsche ownership, and this conversation is getting quite tedious. Ask Porsche for a finance quote and you'll be pleasantly surprised by what they'll offer back on a F4T Cayman GTS after 3 years. It's hilarious that now the F6NA engine is coming to the GTS that the journo's are finally acknowledging just how good the 718 chassis' are. All very laughable, IMHO. I didn't say it was and in my posts in other threads I've acknowledged how good the 718 is. It's just that the 6 pot traits (sound as well as engine vibration balance) are what brought me over to Porsche ownership and losing that means Porsche lose alot of that differentiator from other brands. Others don't care and that's fine too.

ClubsportStr said: The OPC are not going to devalue the gts 4 cylinders for 2 reasons . 1. If the devalue the gts the other 4’s will be devalued and they are still be trying to sell them. 2. Every Car will be returned at the end of the PCP deals and the OPC will take a hit on every car Just my option. Its already devalued, though will have further to go. 2019 718 GTS demonstrators with 2,000 miles available now for 25% off list.

Nuttcase said: Its already devalued, though will have further to go. 2019 718 GTS demonstrators with 2,000 miles available now for 25% off list. Link please?

Fnumber1user said: Link please? https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/718-Boxster-GTS-109235 List around £74k.

Nuttcase said: Fnumber1user said: Link please? https://finder.porsche.com/gb/en_GB/718-Boxster-GTS-109235 List around £74k. It’s 10 month old . Not exactly new

Only 2k miles in those 10 months though and it's dropped £20k. Ouch.

Twinfan said: Of course, but the 981 GT4 basically had the 3.4 from the GTS in 3.8ltr form. The 718 engines are obviously very similar too, albeit the GTS has 20bhp and 200 revs less. I don't see that the 718 GTS 4.0 is substantially closer to a GT car, but I guess the journo reviews may say otherwise when they arrive 3.4 to 3.8 is a bit different from 4.0 to 4.0 ? I am waiting to see the cars also before buying or not, but lets hope if they are close there are not all sold out, my OPC keeps phoning me to buy one though. but I think I want older cars, not classic, just new cars are getting a bit dull and old cars feel so good and 1/2 the price. I may even buy another R lol

Twinfan said: Only 2k miles in those 10 months though and it's dropped £20k. Ouch. Over specced from new with options that don’t retain there value. Look they are not the latest cars and have been replaced with what deemed as a better engine. Even although no one driven one. !! I’m not saying GTS 4 values are not going to be affected . But the days of getting near list for 1-2 year old none GT products are gone. 981 GTS only retained there value as it was deemed that the 4 cylinder replacement was an inferior product. Lets see what happens to 981 GTS prices when the new 6 cylinder GTS are readily available?

The OPC are not going to devalue the gts 4 cylinders for 2 reasons . 1. If the devalue the gts the other 4’s will be devalued and they are still be trying to sell them. 2. Every Car will be returned at the end of the PCP deals and the OPC will take a hit on every car Just my opinion Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:06

ClubsportStr said: . Lets see what happens to 981 GTS prices when the new 6 cylinder GTS are readily available? at half the price not a lot imo, some one with £42k to spend don't have £80k there was a13k mile Boxster GTS with x73 for sale at £42k last week it sold in 1 day !!!

Fnumber1user said: Andyoz said: Interesting point about end of CPC returns and the trickle down effect on the non GTS prices. In answer to the OP question, I'd be buying a bare bones one as cheap as possible, put loads of miles on it and just enjoy the drive. Looking at OPC lightly used prices, some are still listed at £75k??!? I know a New lightly specced 6 pot GTS will exceed that quickly but I can only assume they're waiting for a buyer that's been hiding under a stone the last few months and knows nothing about the 6 pot they can order... The 6 pot isn't the be all and end all to Porsche ownership, and this conversation is getting quite tedious. Ask Porsche for a finance quote and you'll be pleasantly surprised by what they'll offer back on a F4T Cayman GTS after 3 years. It's hilarious that now the F6NA engine is coming to the GTS that the journo's are finally acknowledging just how good the 718 chassis' are. All very laughable, IMHO. Good point made

I think every journo have always said the 718's are better in every respect, bar one.

Porsche911R said: ClubsportStr said: . Lets see what happens to 981 GTS prices when the new 6 cylinder GTS are readily available? at half the price not a lot imo, some one with £42k to spend don't have £80k there was a13k mile Boxster GTS with x73 for sale at £42k last week it sold in 1 day !!! True new Gts specced circa £75k 1year old GTS 4 cylinder £55k looks the same as new model, is the engine worth £20k think not. Anyway as all Pistonheads know all cars find there value in the market and this can be affected by different factors . Let’s see what happens Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:17 Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:20

Porsche911R said: 3.4 to 3.8 is a bit different from 4.0 to 4.0 ? Only in CC numbers. The GT4 gets a bhp bump in both cases, and a bit more torque in 981 form. As you well know, the chassis, aero and electronics differences are the more significant differences between a GTS and a GT4 than a few more horses or torques. The new GTS 4.0 is closer to a 981 Spyder (albeit now with PASM) than it is to a 718 GT4 or Spyder IMHO.

ClubsportStr said: The OPC are not going to devalue the gts 4 cylinders for 2 reasons . 1. If the devalue the gts the other 4’s will be devalued and they are still be trying to sell them. 2. Every Car will be returned at the end of the PCP deals and the OPC will take a hit on every car Just my opinion Edited by ClubsportStr on Wednesday 22 January 09:06 The OPC doesnt take the hit its VWFS that takes the hit so the OPC doesnt care. On another thread a poster has won the PCP gamble as his diesel Cayenne is now worth substantially less than the GFV because of dieselgate. The reality is though even VWFS wont feel it because the buyer has loaned the money at 6% so will have covered the gap in GFV and actual value with their interest payments and the number of cars are insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

On the 981 GTS the only way to get -20mm suspension was to choose the X73 fixed dampers which is identical to the 981 Spyder's..The standard suspension was -10mm PASM as other 981s..The new 718 GTS has -20mm PASM as standard which i'm assuming is the same as the PASM on the new 718 Spyder/GT4..

Taffy66 said: On the 981 GTS the only way to get -20mm suspension was to choose the X73 fixed dampers which is identical to the 981 Spyder's..The standard suspension was -10mm PASM as other 981s..The new 718 GTS has -20mm PASM as standard which i'm assuming is the same as the PASM on the new 718 Spyder/GT4.. It isn't. The Spyder and GT4 have -30mm GT department PASM, as did the 981 GT4 (-30mm). The suspension is unique to those models in the Cayster range.

anonymous said: [redacted] You can lightly spec a 4.0 GTS (with say just parking sensors and cruise) to appeal to the ‘S’ must have F6 crowd for 65k. The days of 981 GTS’s changing hands for 50k plus are long gone, as they are no longer the last of the line.

Just before Christmas I bought a Cayman 718 GTS (2.5 turbo) and would be interested in the new 4.0 NA but for several factors: 1) The 4.0 is manual only at the moment. In common with the majority of buyers (outside PH) I am only interested in a PDK model, my days of driving a manual in heavy traffic (or pretty much any traffic) ended with my Boxster 987 in 2012. Whilst a manual only car it will remain a niche purchase (outside PH). 2) I got my Cayman 718 GTS pre-reg, 3 weeks old and with 15% off list price from an OPC. With 15 miles on the clock delivered to my door it was basically new to me. It was advertised on the Porsche AUC site at the price I paid for a few weeks before I decided to go for it. 3) It is just about my perfect spec, GTSM, GTS interior in crayon, LED PDLS Plus, Gloss black Sport Design with Metallic black wheels, BOSE and all the usual climate, auto dimming, etc. along with sport PASM (-20mm) and of course PDK! The car is gorgeous and handles even better than I remembered from my 981 Boxster S, even with the awful weather and road conditions at the moment. The engine noise, whilst unimpressive when cold at tick over, has grown on me. I have removed the soundaktor fuse to try the reduced cabin noise and the engine noise above tick over is deep and subtle, with a rather nice modulation when coming off the throttle. It doesn't scream like my V6 Audi, but I've yet to really rev it as still running it in. Having driven older 718 cars I think the 2020 GTS with the GPF has been tuned for a more subtle and smoother sound. Although clearly not the best engine it is hard to see how it can be described as the worst engine in any car ever, as in the recent video link in this topic. My brother just swapped his 718 Boxster S for a 718 Spyder, and although the noise is preferable, it is still a little more subdued than we expected. I presume this is due to recent regs and the GPF. He really wanted a PDK but copes better with a manual than me. Although I love the sound of a fantasy sports car as much as the next petrol head, in the real world they can be antisocial and are not always as well received by others as we might imagine. When a PDK version is available I may be tempted to switch (after a test drive to make sure the engine is worth making the change). However a similar spec 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK will be around £80K and we all know how much they lose as soon as you drive them out of the showroom. However much my GTS loses, it will be £12K less than if I had paid full price. A PDK GT4 may tempt me, but still not sure anyone will allow me to buy one and I think I would find the rear wing embarrassing at my age (58). If they had face lifted the car, especially the interior, I would have been more concerned about my car "aging" suddenly, but the currently manual only engine only change would have meant me waiting another summer for a PDK car and paying a lot more money for a different engine with similar real world performance. By the time this car is available, my car will be worth perhaps £50 something K and the new one will cost around £30K more, for a one year newer car that looks identical and performs much the same. I suspect the market for used cars like mine will not be devastated (or at least I hope so) by the new car and as ever, buying well is a big plus. Common sense says to stick with my brand new 718 GTS and enjoy the performance, handling and looks along with the reduced depreciation over a full price GTS 4.0. YMMV...

Budget for an expensive one, buy a cheap one and spend the difference modifying the cheap one to be faster than the expensive one. Tell your wife it was the cheapest car available (technically true) and tell your mates about your new torque curve and kerb weight and torsional rigidity and optimised geometry and gearset. Everyone’s a winner!

The 981 GTS will definitely come down in price especially once used 718 4.0 GTS come on the market. The 718 4.0 isn’t limited so I can see 981 GTS prices coming down to low 40’s high 30’s soon

ODRALLAG said: The 981 GTS will definitely come down in price especially once used 718 4.0 GTS come on the market. The 718 4.0 isn’t limited so I can see 981 GTS prices coming down to low 40’s high 30’s soon At £70k+ for a brand new GTS 4.0 with options, I personally can't see a low mile 981 GTS up for sale at an OPC for £39k, given that it's very similar except for its superior soundtrack. F4T GTSs may (will?) drop below 981s in value and prop them up too. It's all guesswork anyway, but as always the market will decide

Twinfan said: Porsche911R said: 3.4 to 3.8 is a bit different from 4.0 to 4.0 ? Only in CC numbers. The GT4 gets a bhp bump in both cases, and a bit more torque in 981 form. As you well know, the chassis, aero and electronics differences are the more significant differences between a GTS and a GT4 than a few more horses or torques. The new GTS 4.0 is closer to a 981 Spyder (albeit now with PASM) than it is to a 718 GT4 or Spyder IMHO. the new 4.0 is a bit restricted even more as the gearbox torque levels are low hence the on paper states for the 718 GT4 are poor. cayman R had 273 lbs/ft 981 GTS had a touch more at 280 lb-ft the 3.8 bought in a load more torque going from a 3.4 to a 3.8 at 308 lbs/ft but torque limited the 4.0 is also 308 torque limited !!!! so zero gain..... torque wins races and lap times, the new 4.0 means nothing now sadly as they did not put in a gearbox to be able to use it !!! a tuned 3.8 will wee wee all over a 4.0 oem car as they remove the torque limit and I think you get 334 lb/ft that's close to my 500PS gt3 at 339 lb/ft !!! All these new cars are not even matching a 997.2 from 2009 !!! a GTS had then 408 bhp and 310 lb/ft !!! very frustrating imo. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 January 15:49

I couldn't give a monkeys about the on-paper stats or how modified cars perform, and I'm sure plenty of GT4 or GTS 4.0 buyers don't either.

People aren't buying a GTS 4.0 for track work, nor do they want you trash talking their choice of new car.

Twinfan said: I couldn't give a monkeys about the on-paper stats or how modified cars perform, and I'm sure plenty of GT4 or GTS 4.0 buyers don't either. true but the cars has a headline grabbing 4.0l engine but the gearbox cannot use it, you get that don't you ? I know you don't track and buy on looks alone and wanted a halo car just to pose in, but a lot of these will get used on track, many people want a bit more for their money than a headline engine size figure to chat about down the pub !! , the 4.0l is pure sales nothing else sadly. as I said no better than a 911 from 11 years ago :-( I am hoping the RS PDK is NOT torque limited and they are working towards making something special over on paper crap to get sales after low 4 pot sales. Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 January 16:11

Twinfan said: People aren't buying a GTS 4.0 for track work, nor do they want you trash talking their choice of new car. I don't give a fo4k to be honest, they are only cars, people (you) need to get over it, I am ONLY STATING FACTS HERE ABOUTS ENGINES. This forum is rife for slagging off Macca's and Lotus. !!! you went ga ga for the GTS, I hope it's not going to be 4 years of GT4 love in every thread. AT least when I had my GT4 I was honest about it's flaws WHILE I OWNED IT !!! you dismiss any flaws !! and will fight to the death to say such on cars which have flaws.

Porsche911R said: I don't give a fo4k to be honest, they are only cars, people (you) need to get over it, I am ONLY STATING FACTS HERE ABOUTS ENGINES. This forum is rife for slagging off Macca's and Lotus. !!! you went ga ga for the GTS, I hope it's not going to be 4 years of GT4 love in every thread. AT least when I had my GT4 I was honest about it's flaws WHILE I OWNED IT !!! you dismiss any flaws !! and will fight to the death to say such on cars which have flaws. You really need to chill out. Why does it bother you so much what I do or don't do?

I think you boys should just make out and get it over with.

CaymanGTSM said: Just before Christmas I bought a Cayman 718 GTS (2.5 turbo) and would be interested in the new 4.0 NA but for several factors: 1) The 4.0 is manual only at the moment. In common with the majority of buyers (outside PH) I am only interested in a PDK model, my days of driving a manual in heavy traffic (or pretty much any traffic) ended with my Boxster 987 in 2012. Whilst a manual only car it will remain a niche purchase (outside PH). 2) I got my Cayman 718 GTS pre-reg, 3 weeks old and with 15% off list price from an OPC. With 15 miles on the clock delivered to my door it was basically new to me. It was advertised on the Porsche AUC site at the price I paid for a few weeks before I decided to go for it. 3) It is just about my perfect spec, GTSM, GTS interior in crayon, LED PDLS Plus, Gloss black Sport Design with Metallic black wheels, BOSE and all the usual climate, auto dimming, etc. along with sport PASM (-20mm) and of course PDK! The car is gorgeous and handles even better than I remembered from my 981 Boxster S, even with the awful weather and road conditions at the moment. The engine noise, whilst unimpressive when cold at tick over, has grown on me. I have removed the soundaktor fuse to try the reduced cabin noise and the engine noise above tick over is deep and subtle, with a rather nice modulation when coming off the throttle. It doesn't scream like my V6 Audi, but I've yet to really rev it as still running it in. Having driven older 718 cars I think the 2020 GTS with the GPF has been tuned for a more subtle and smoother sound. Although clearly not the best engine it is hard to see how it can be described as the worst engine in any car ever, as in the recent video link in this topic. My brother just swapped his 718 Boxster S for a 718 Spyder, and although the noise is preferable, it is still a little more subdued than we expected. I presume this is due to recent regs and the GPF. He really wanted a PDK but copes better with a manual than me. Although I love the sound of a fantasy sports car as much as the next petrol head, in the real world they can be antisocial and are not always as well received by others as we might imagine. When a PDK version is available I may be tempted to switch (after a test drive to make sure the engine is worth making the change). However a similar spec 718 Cayman GTS 4.0 PDK will be around £80K and we all know how much they lose as soon as you drive them out of the showroom. However much my GTS loses, it will be £12K less than if I had paid full price. A PDK GT4 may tempt me, but still not sure anyone will allow me to buy one and I think I would find the rear wing embarrassing at my age (58). If they had face lifted the car, especially the interior, I would have been more concerned about my car "aging" suddenly, but the currently manual only engine only change would have meant me waiting another summer for a PDK car and paying a lot more money for a different engine with similar real world performance. By the time this car is available, my car will be worth perhaps £50 something K and the new one will cost around £30K more, for a one year newer car that looks identical and performs much the same. I suspect the market for used cars like mine will not be devastated (or at least I hope so) by the new car and as ever, buying well is a big plus. Common sense says to stick with my brand new 718 GTS and enjoy the performance, handling and looks along with the reduced depreciation over a full price GTS 4.0. YMMV... Great car may I ask did you have to take dealer finance to get that price?

mr pg said: I think every journo have always said the 718's are better in every respect, bar one. Yes - it's what they have said about the 'bar one' that makes it difficult to see values holding up for the higher end F4T 718 such as the GTS. This month's Evo for example has Stuart Gallagher opining that the F4T in any guise 'is an abomination and an embarrassment to the internal combustion engine' and Adam Towler with 'laggy low down and pedantly {sic} linear above that, all you can really say about the 718's engine is that it gets the job done.' It is a slap in the teeth if you own a car that journalists slate, but whatever way you dress it up, buyers read reviews and these are not good I had a 981 GTS and would have a 718 4.0 GTS - I wouldn't have a 718 2.5 GTS. I'm only one bloke, but my position on this is not unique to me.

JayK12 said: I think you boys should just make out and get it over with. I don't think he's my type...

pete.g said: It is a slap in the teeth if you own a car that journalists slate, but whatever way you dress it up, buyers read reviews and these are not good I had a 981 GTS and would have a 718 4.0 GTS - I wouldn't have a 718 2.5 GTS. I'm only one bloke, but my position on this is not unique to me. It's a pincer movement. You have the journalists on the one hand and the 981 owners on the other - it's a powerful negative.

cc3 said: Great car may I ask did you have to take dealer finance to get that price? No, I paid cash. They gave me a PCP quote, but even with the largest deposit possible the interest was over £7K (6% APR) Final payment quoted was £40K after 3 years, so £24K lost in 3 years (5,000 miles per year). Hopefully that's a conservative value and I can do better! Geoff

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://thumbsnap.com/sc/4N8jKWsb.jpg

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] https://thumbsnap.com/sc/QsbCvcm7.jpg

Very nice looking car that is. I do lots of miles in a daily driver and quite fancy a 4 pot Cayman if the price looks right, how economical are they?

I think it depends how heavy your right foot is

Of course. How about a range of uses? I won’t hold you to it :-)

I think you'll need an F4T owner to reply

Frrair said: Very nice looking car that is. I do lots of miles in a daily driver and quite fancy a 4 pot Cayman if the price looks right, how economical are they? 40mpg is possible with a gentle right foot

Frrair said: Very nice looking car that is. I do lots of miles in a daily driver and quite fancy a 4 pot Cayman if the price looks right, how economical are they? I got 38mpg on a gentle run when running in. Now in sport mode I get 26 ish . You can get low 30s if you are taking your time!

Danpunch said: I’m not sure why people slate the 718 S turbo engine SO much. I’ve lived with it for over 2 years and indeed it doesn’t sound anything like as lovely as a 981 GTS. BUT and it’s a big BUT, the engine is hugely effective. The torque and outright performance mated to the PDK is devastating on a twisty A road. Throttle response is also great for turbo engine as lag really isn’t there. Never have I wanted for more power in the car but I certainly have an attraction towards that 4.0 hence my order in for one. Everything else about the 718 is better over the previous car so on that basis I can’t see how the arse will fall out of values. They are fantastic sports cars still and that’s the reality. Refreshing to hear this kind of review on the 2.5T engine. As a new-comer to Porsche ownership, this will likely be my entry engine as I slot myself into a 718 S. It may lack something aurally, but it's better than the 2.0T I'm coming from in my S3 - so it's all relative.

cc3 said: Great car may I ask did you have to take dealer finance to get that price? Did a similar deal today on a high spec GTS. I wanted PDK and can live with exhaust note etc. Discount more than makes up for any softening of value in 3 years time.

I'm another to champion the 2.0 F4. Evo et al hate it as worst engine ever. Rubbish. Its linear and shoves so well. You have to click a couple of gears or use sport mode and its fine. Sound is fine if not spine tingling. Package amazing.

shost said: I'm another to champion the 2.0 F4. Evo et al hate it as worst engine ever. Rubbish. Its linear and shoves so well. You have to click a couple of gears or use sport mode and its fine. Sound is fine if not spine tingling. Package amazing. I agree sounds ok to me . Not 6 cylinder noise . Think porsche only bringing new engine in gts to help recoup development money for GT4/Spyder. Don’t think new gts is worth the money over my existing gts. 20k for the engine as nothing else as changed apart from the colours.

‘That’ video.. 718 Cayman GTS vs 981 GT4 Real world comparison not track comparison.. https://youtu.be/k_yxJwXqwdY

Junkalus said: ‘That’ video.. 718 Cayman GTS vs 981 GT4 Real world comparison not track comparison.. https://youtu.be/k_yxJwXqwdY Great video....shows just how good the 2.5 GTS really is when driven properly. With the new 4.0 GTS costing at least £20k more and no chance of a PDK option this year the old 2.5 GTS looks like a bargain.

I’m another champion of the 718 Cayman GTS.. The ‘only’ bad thing that journo’s bash on about is the ‘sound’ of the engine..In ‘every’ other way it’s a better car than the 981,I should know,I’ve had both..And do you really think Porsche would bring out an inferior car to the out going model? If you don’t like the sound of the exhaust, change it / the downpipe cat..simples..Personally I don’t mind the sound and passengers seem to like it.. But a cat & downpipe change is in my plans.. As for real world mpg,mine is a daily and I can get anything from 27mpg-35mpg per tank..I’ve had the car since last September and it’s literally rained every day since I’ve had it :-( so I’ve only had a few chances to Hoon it properly thru the twisties, and my worse case scenario for that, wringing it’s neck out in every gear was about 19mpg I think..But no one wrings the neck out of the daily on every single turn of the key.. Turbo lag? Bullsh*t.. If you get turbo lag your in the wrong gear,simples..Mine’s pdk cos after years of manuals and getting stuck in 1 too many traffic jams on the M25 it is so much easier and so so intuitive of the way I drive.. Less involving than a manual you say? Have you driven 1 in anger in manual mode either thru the Black Forest or The Alps, The Stelvio or the Cairngorms chasing a McClaren 650s or a an M2 or a stripped out lightened Ferrari f430? Do that, and ‘then’ come tell me it’s less involving.. I average 55k miles a year in my cars and couldn’t give a toss about residuals when I come to part with it.. I actually bought my car to ‘drive it’ funnily enough and I’m pretty sure Ferdinande Porsche is turning in his grave with all these people that buy his cars just to make money.. If I wanted to make money I’d just go buy another house.. Cars are built to be driven... Another thing I like about mine (ex demo) is the Torque curve you get.. My 981 CS was tuned to 366bhp with 310 ft/lb of torque which was nice but I had to wring the revs out of it to reach that figure, with my 2.5 litre turbo’d 4 pot,the peak comes in so much earlier at 1900 rpm vs around 5,500 which means I’m getting that shove so much earlier for longer.. I’ll take that any day of the week.. There’s a video out there in YouTube land of the 718 CGTS vs a tuned 981 GT4, makes a good watch.. I’ll try n find the link.. Here is mine on pick up day from Porsche Sheffield https://video.citnow.com/vxc0p5Yw7Lb Edited by Junkalus on Saturday 1st February 15:59 Edited by Junkalus on Saturday 1st February 16:01 Edited by Junkalus on Saturday 1st February 16:07 Edited by Junkalus on Saturday 1st February 16:11

Junkalus said: ‘That’ video.. 718 Cayman GTS vs 981 GT4 Real world comparison not track comparison.. https://youtu.be/k_yxJwXqwdY guy puts his foot down in the GT4 and can't wipe the grin off his face. puts his foot down in the 718 and... not much really other than a bit more shove.

Had my GTS for a week and really impressed prefer it to the GT4 I sold 18 months ago. PDK a must have

I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’... ain’t that the truth! Be v interesting to see how many forum whingers actually go out and buy an £80k 4.0...

JasonSteel said: guy puts his foot down in the GT4 and can't wipe the grin off his face. puts his foot down in the 718 and... not much really other than a bit more shove. Did I mishear him say the GT4 had modded exhaust?

Fnumber1user said: Did I mishear him say the GT4 had modded exhaust? no, but it's the same grin you get revving out any 981 and the reason why the 718 was such a disappointment in that respect. that video says it all really. it's supposed to big up the 718 but the the guy's emotions tell you everything you need to know.

Schmed said: I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’ ahhh yes - nothing quite like a well researched statistic to tell a story. Edited by JasonSteel on Saturday 1st February 18:38

Schmed said: I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’... ain’t that the truth! Be v interesting to see how many forum whingers actually go out and buy an £80k 4.0... I've driven four 718s. Sounded terrible.

DJMC said: Schmed said: I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’... ain’t that the truth! Be v interesting to see how many forum whingers actually go out and buy an £80k 4.0... I've driven four 718s. Sounded terrible. Ah, but are you on the order books for the 4 litre? To be fair, no one I’ve ever met in real life who’s actually heard the 718 had anything but but praise for the engine. No harm no foul, but when people start getting screwed by their OPCs by selling their newly bought GTS’s back to them at what must be a fairly substantial loss* I do start to think the sound nonsense is getting slightly out of hand again... * anecdotal, of course Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 1st February 19:56

Schmed said: Ah, but are you on the order books for the 4 litre? To be fair, no one I’ve ever met in real life who’s actually heard the 718 had anything but but praise for the engine. No harm no foul, but when people start getting screwed by their OPCs by selling their newly bought GTS’s back to them at what must be a fairly substantial loss* I do start to think the sound nonsense is getting slightly out of hand again... * anecdotal, of course Edited by Schmed on Saturday 1st February 19:56 No, I'm happy with my 981. I went to the 718 launch at Solihull OPC and laughed out loud when they started one in the showroom. Then I was invited by Car magazine to test a press 718S on road and track. Here I found stiffer PASM, lag, poor soundtrack, and was relieved to step back into my base 981. Had others as courtesy cars since. Don't do it for me. As for 400bhp, why do I need that power on the road? For "thrills"? Had enough of that in my motorsport days. I can see the ego appeal though. 4 litres, 400bhp. 0-60 in half a second faster than my 981. I'll keep my £50,000 saving in my pension pot thanks.

Having sold a GT4 and now own a 718 GTS I know the PDK is a must have for road use. Just makes the car do much more enjoyable to drive. Having driven the GTS for a week also so pleased I have the GTS interior, LED PDLS package, BOSE and the 18 adaptive way sports seats with memory. Does the exhaust sound concern me ? No it’s fine

Schmed said: DJMC said: Schmed said: I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’... ain’t that the truth! Be v interesting to see how many forum whingers actually go out and buy an £80k 4.0... I've driven four 718s. Sounded terrible. Ah, but are you on the order books for the 4 litre? I've driven three 718s - two S models and a base. Hated the throttle response and sound of all of them. If I didn't have a 718 GT4 coming next month I'd have a GTS 4.0 for sure.

Schmed said: To be fair, no one I’ve ever met in real life who’s actually heard the 718 had anything but but praise for the engine. Edited by Schmed on Saturday 1st February 19:56 You need to get out more and talk to more people.Most people don't go around saying to car owners faces how awful their engines are. Me neither - but I'd make an exception to help you get a more balanced perspective. Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 1st February 20:51 Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 1st February 20:53

DJMC said: No, I'm happy with my 981. I went to the 718 launch at Solihull OPC and laughed out loud when they started one in the showroom. Subjective and personal sure. But I’ve started up a 718 and people are like “wow that sounds fantastic,such a sports car!”. I owned a 981, was an ok car. I also think the 4.0 will be epic, however I do think the hatred of the F4 is unjustified. It’s a great engine, superb torque, watch Ford vs Ferrari, a race car engine should sound like its spitting blood, the F4 has even been compared to a goblin: “This thing sounds like a goblin, all mechanical grumble and spitting overrun. “ Car and Driver 2018, and yet such unjustified hatred exists despite the obvious torque and tuning advantages. And then I think there’s snobbery. There is a certain “tune” certain F6 zealot gentleman requires. “ An F4T certainly just wouldn’t do...” Well, around a track at least, I certainly suspect it would...

Twinfan said: Schmed said: DJMC said: Schmed said: I did like the comment in the video: ‘90% of the people on the internet saying it sounds "terrible" have not heard or driven one in person’... ain’t that the truth! Be v interesting to see how many forum whingers actually go out and buy an £80k 4.0... I've driven four 718s. Sounded terrible. Ah, but are you on the order books for the 4 litre? I've driven three 718s - two S models and a base. Hated the throttle response and sound of all of them. If I didn't have a 718 GT4 coming next month I'd have a GTS 4.0 for sure. Fair dues TF, you’ve justified your decisions, fair play, and I think you’re getting a superb car. Btw what colour did you go for in the end?

Racing Yellow for me

Twinfan said: Racing Yellow for me Fizzbomb will soon be making you an offer...

bcr5784 said: You need to get out more and talk to more people.Most people don't go around saying to car owners faces how awful their engines are. Me neither - but I'd make an exception to help you get a more balanced perspective. Engine ain’t awful, thought at least you’d be endorsing the benefits of an F4T bcr? Still endorsing the Renault Meghan Parts Bin special...? There’s going to be some hard truths learnt in the real market next year for sure...

For road use the 718 GTS 4 pot is a better car to drive than my GT4. Manual cars are becoming a very niche market as I guess performance petrol cars will become once electric takes hold of the market. Have my first electric car arriving in April and really looking forward to it. Instant performance from electric is fabulous and no noise to argue over !

TimoMak said: Engine ain’t awful, thought at least you’d be endorsing the benefits of an F4T bcr? Still endorsing the Renault Meghan Parts Bin special...? There’s going to be some hard truths learnt in the real market next year for sure... Still flogging that dead horse are we? Some real market truths have already happened or hadn't you noticed?

If it was Signal Yellow I'd be in trouble! Edited by Twinfan on Sunday 2nd February 11:15

anonymous said: [redacted] We all have our own opinions...I have been driving and enjoying Porsche cars for over 30 years so have experienced many different engines. I actually love the new 4 cylinder turbo cars....they are certainly no worse than before...just different...in my opinion.

Koln-RS said: Twinfan said: I'd avoid PCCBs for replacement cost reasons unless you're goinn to immediately switch them out for steel discs! I doubt many people would spec pccbs on a 4-cylinder 718, although they would be very desirable on the forthcoming 6-cylinder model. What I don’t understand is the comment about replacement costs. In road use, they should last well over 100k mls, with all the associated benefits, so at worst they are probably cost neutral. I agree I have PCCB’s on our 981 GTS and at the major 4 years service last March there was no measurable wear on the discs (steels probably half way gone by then) and even pad wear is much less than they would be on iron discs. According to the OPC technicians anyway.

cc3 said: Had my GTS for a week and really impressed prefer it to the GT4 I sold 18 months ago. PDK a must have How have you, or anyone else, found the 2.5 GTS long term? I’m going to look at one tomorrow was hoping some of the current owners could comment on the 4 cylinder GTS. PDK is the biggest plus for me.