996 GT3.2 discs and pads - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I need new discs and pads. I have OEM discs and pagids currently, a combination that I have found very effective. I am therefore not particularly derirous to upgrade to Alcons and my car remains OEM in every way except geo. I am however interested in any up to date views on other pads; PF etc - else I shall stick to what I know and like. Did I read somewhere that OEM discs can be bought direct from a manufacturer cheaper than the stock shelf at an OPC? Thankyou!

stick with what you like imo. oem with RS29 :-)

exactement.

How much do you want to spend and what do you want to do is probably a better question for people to answer.

I've got PF discs and - I think - pagid pads at the front. Will need replacing this year as well. No problems with that set up although as I've not tried anything else yet I don't have much to compare it to!

lemmingjames said: How much do you want to spend and what do you want to do is probably a better question for people to answer. +1 For road use OEMs are fine. I use GiroDiscs and RS29s for track and find them superb for bite, feel, and consistency. Others are equally keen on Alcon and RS29s

I've been using Zimmerman discs with RS29 front and RS14 rear pads for the past 2.5 years. Discs are rediculously cheap from FVD in Germany and seem no different to genuine Porsche or Sebro discs. http://www.fvd.de/de/en/Porsche-0/996_GT3-140-28/-... However have now swapped to PF08 pads all round and quite impressed so far.

Thanks Jack. I also see that design 911 sell some OEM manufacturer discs - which I assume come from the same factory without Porsche stamped on them. And those too are priced so much like a consumable as to make alcons / PF / even Giro seem expensive for what may be marginal improvements. Re budget. There isn't one, my only consideration being value for money and as I think several of us are finding the OEM / Pagid type setup, at these prices, is a very effective combination, including for track work.

If you have no intention of tracking the car more than the odd jaunt then OEM are fine. If you want to do more track work then Alcons/brembos are a must. I get 2-3 track days out of a set of OEM fronts and over 15 out of a set of Brembos or Alcons.

Steve Rance said: If you want to do more track work then Alcons/brembos are a must. I get 2-3 track days out of a set of OEM fronts and over 15 out of a set of Brembos or Alcons. squirejo said: And those too are priced so much like a consumable as to make alcons / PF / even Giro seem expensive for what may be marginal improvements. I think it fair to say that's more than a "marginal" improvement. With brakes, as indeed with everything in life, you get what you pay for. But for the first few years of the car's life, there were limited aftermarket options, hence you paid crazy main dealer prices for OE discs which lasted 2-3 TD's or you went with the more expensive Alcons, Brembo's PFC's and got 5 times the life. Now OE discs are available cheaply and the likes of Girodisc exist, one's options are greater.

I`d add to the last 2 posts and say if it does do trackwork , steer clear of drilled discs. Look at grooved or dimpled instead.

Far Cough said: I`d add to the last 2 posts and say if it does do trackwork , steer clear of drilled discs. Look at grooved or dimpled instead. +1

when you are working out in price there seems not much in it, Alcon are 4x the price and last 4x longer. I have seen others state 4x oem disks will out last 1 set brembo's/ALcon's So it's not set in stone it seems regarding life.

Do Alcon users tend to have them all round or just on the front?

braddo said: Do Alcon users tend to have them all round or just on the front? All round. The larger diameter / effective radius front and rear increases brake torque, reduces temps, and pad life is improved as a result too.

PorscheGT4 said: when you are working out in price there seems not much in it, Alcon are 4x the price and last 4x longer. I have seen others state 4x oem disks will out last 1 set brembo's/ALcon's So it's not set in stone it seems regarding life. If the Alcons are the same as the Brembo's, the initial purchase will include the mounting bells which are a considerable element of the cost. From then on only the discs themselves will need replacing. From my experience, if you are tracking the car regularly, the costs are almost half compared to running oem's

braddo said: Do Alcon users tend to have them all round or just on the front? Either is fine. I always ran OEM rears as the bias on the 996 is a lot more forward than on subsequent GT3's and wear was never an issue. I also prefered to further increase the front bias which I personally prefer

jfp said: braddo said: Do Alcon users tend to have them all round or just on the front? All round. The larger diameter / effective radius front and rear increases brake torque, reduces temps, and pad life is improved as a result too. +1 brilliant discs that last !

Steve Rance said: If the Alcons are the same as the Brembo's, the initial purchase will include the mounting bells which are a considerable element of the cost. From then on only the discs themselves will need replacing. From my experience, if you are tracking the car regularly, the costs are almost half compared to running oem's you still should only use the bell say 3 times, so after 2 new disks it's normally regarded best to buy new bells again. not saying it's not the way to go, but when you work out costs for the normal punter who may do 2 track days a year say 70 miles on track x2 that sort or use does not warrant Alcons/Brembo's, unless you want the best and also it looks cool :-) there is also the Porsche warranty to worry about if doing this to a 997 GT3/ GTS etc. And as we all know a lot of people do want the warranty it seems. A CUP car uses a CUP disk and they throw it away after a race. And again you can buy CUP disks if one so wishes but yes even buying new BElls every 3 sets running Alcons does seem cheaper and of course better performance. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Friday 23 January 14:18

PorscheGT4 said: you still should only use the bell say 3 times, so after 2 new disks it's normally regarded best to buy new bells again. not saying it's not the way to go, but when you work out costs for the normal punter who may do 2 track days a year say 70 miles on track x2 that sort or use does not warrant Alcons/Brembo's, unless you want the best and also it looks cool :-) there is also the Porsche warranty to worry about if doing this to a 997 GT3/ GTS etc. And as we all know a lot of people do want the warranty it seems. A CUP car uses a CUP disk and they throw it away after a race. And again you can buy CUP disks if one so wishes but yes even buying new BElls every 3 sets running Alcons does seem cheaper and of course better performance. Edited by PorscheGT4 on Friday 23 January 14:18 Yep agreed. Only needed if your regularly tracking

Steve Rance said: If the Alcons are the same as the Brembo's, the initial purchase will include the mounting bells which are a considerable element of the cost. From then on only the discs themselves will need replacing. From my experience, if you are tracking the car regularly, the costs are almost half compared to running oem's Agreed! IF.... You are paying OEM prices for OEM discs... Have you looked at the price of the Zimmermans I listed above? Don't forget Alcon/Brembo-style hubs and hardware don't last forever. They are prone to wear and ovalling of the mounting holes. They don't last forever. Jack

And that's really what I was getting at. Consumable vs less consumable and it seems Jack and I have no problem with the braking performance on these oem type discs with more aggressive pads for track use. I think I will try these- if they work for Jack am sure they will work for me. Thanks everyone for thoughts and links.

What kills he OEM discs in 2-3 trackdays ? Cracking ?? Is there not an alternative slotted available or even a plain disc from the Cayenne ???

I get more than 2-3 days out of a set of Zimmermans. But then I'm not a race driver... But yes, it is normally cracking around the holes that signals the death knell for the discs rather than wear. But still, if you use them right up to the Porsche recommended safe limit, they will do a lot more than 2-3 days being driven as hard as a "non racer" can achieve. Jack

See, I would've thought the opposite and expected a novice to put more heat in them through poor technique ??

Possibly. But most novices don't get close to approaching the limits of the car both in terms of outright speed or under brakes, do they? Surely that in itself would contribute towards lower brake temps? I honestly don't know. My assumption had always been the better your Laptimes, the more braking effort being used. I.E. Arriving at braking zones faster, braking later and harder = more heat generated.

I wonder if I could get some help on this. I had Parr fit their floating disc setup on my Mk1 GT3 around 6 years ago. I've probably done 15000 miles on them, mostly road miles. I'm not the heaviest user but the brakes are brilliant. I've done a fair few road trips to the Alps and the brakes are fade free. The pads are still fine. However the rattle from the discs has got a lot worse over time to what is now I think too loud. What can be done about this - or do I need new discs/bells? I've heard that the replacement ones are quieter but don't understand what needs replacing nor approximate cost. Would appreciate any pointers. Cheers

Singh911 said: I wonder if I could get some help on this. I had Parr fit their floating disc setup on my Mk1 GT3 around 6 years ago. I've probably done 15000 miles on them, mostly road miles. I'm not the heaviest user but the brakes are brilliant. I've done a fair few road trips to the Alps and the brakes are fade free. The pads are still fine. However the rattle from the discs has got a lot worse over time to what is now I think too loud. What can be done about this - or do I need new discs/bells? I've heard that the replacement ones are quieter but don't understand what needs replacing nor approximate cost. Would appreciate any pointers. Cheers The slots on the periphery of the bells wear, as do the bobbins that run in them (the two parts slide together to allow the discs to expand and contract independantly of the bell), they'll need removing stripping and measuring to establish if they've reached their wear limits. On the basis of the mileage and age you've mentioned, it's quite likely the bobbins and bells may need replacing. Depending on the materials they're manufactured from, one component out the two maybe sacrificial, you'd hope it would be the bobbins ....... ! I suspect you've got the Brembo discs/bells ? They were the intrinsically race parts which were modified for road/trackday use, and as such were known to be a noisy. The likes of Alcon and PFC went to greater lengths to ensure the disc mounting hardware operated more silently. Edit to add image (open it in Thumbsnap to view a larger image) : 1 is the bell 2 is the disc 3 is the bobbin (not the mounting bolt in the middle) 4 is the mounting bolt. The bobbin (3) bolted to the disc (2) is free to move independently of the bell (1), it slides in a slot machined into the periphery of the bell (deliniated by the two parallel yellow lines) where these two parts touch (the sides of the slot and the faces of the bobbin) wear will occur, and when it does you get the rattle/noise you describe. Edited by Slippydiff on Sunday 25th January 10:47

Thanks for that i understand the whole thing a lot better now. I will take the wheels off and take a closer look. Cheers

To add - thanks to Jack's German supplier link I have just ordered new F&R discs and Pagid RS29 / 19 pad combo for £1000 delivered inc taxes. Which seems jolly good value to me. I will update the thread once fitted and in service as to wear / effectiveness. Thank you to all for advice and ideas.

Glad to be of help. Probably worth getting fluid done at same time for full effect. Make sure you get the garage to bleed the inner nipple on each calliper, not just the easy to get at outer one. You'd be surprised how many garages don't bother. Makes a big difference.

And to finalise. New discs indistinguishable from OEM in look and use. Saved a small fortune on the uk rrp on discs and pads. Fitted by GT one. Highly recommended for anyone needing similar n the future.

Glad they worked out for you. Like you say, a relative bargain. And from my extensive experience, just as good as OEM. If you are going to track it I can recommend the 996 GT2 rear disc cooling ducts and the 997 Turbo caliper ducts.

good info gents and thanks. I think I am due some new discs and pads later this year. Jackwood, do you have a link to those cooling ducts? do FVD sell them?

jackwood said: If you are going to track it I can recommend the 996 GT2 rear disc cooling ducts and the 997 Turbo caliper ducts. Personally I do not recommend spending much on cooling ducts unless money is no object. Existing cooling on 996 GT3.2 is adequate under race conditions.

Harris_I said: Personally I do not recommend spending much on cooling ducts unless money is no object. Existing cooling on 996 GT3.2 is adequate under race conditions. On the front I never had a problem. But the rears have no cooling ducting at all as standard. My car used to get really grumbly at the back on track and pick up a lot of vibration. This may be due to the RS14 pads, I'm not sure, but regardless, since fitting the ducts I have had zero issues. The 996 TT caliper ducts are pennies. The 996 GT2 disc ducts are about £60+vat per side. Hardly a fortune in the GT3 scheme of things. Here are the part numbers for the 996 GT2 ducts. I'm sure you can get them from FVD. Mike at Sports and Classic got mine for me. Jack

Jackwood do you have the details for the TT ducts as well? I have read the 996 gt3 mk2 has bigger ducts than mk1 but rs ones are huge. Are the front brake ducts from the 997 gt3 any better for the 996? Thanks nick

Hi Nick, 997 TT caliper ducts 997 GT3 front ducts And what I have at the front on mine. I didn't bother upgrading the fronts on mine to the 997 GT3 items as the ones that are on there seem bigger. But I'm not sure if they are original standard items or if Hunter66 (first owner) upgraded them. Hope that helps. Jack PS the rear 997 TT caliper ducts so need to be trimmed very slightly (I used a craft knife) where they come up against the tyre. Otherwise they rub the tyre and make a noise. I put the wheel on, drove it 5 yards, took the wheel off and trimmed away where the contact was. Really easy.

Double post Edited by jackwood on Tuesday 10th March 07:46