Bad experience with Porsche OPC, what should I do? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Having only had the car 4 months and it being an ‘approved’ car can you not return it to OPC Cardiff and ask them to have a look at the problems that have been brought to your attention by another OPC? What mileage have you done in those 4 months?

Tbh it doesn’t sound like the OPC did anything. It’s an inspection not a strip and rebuild. Think it’s just bad luck. I’d go back to the OPC you got the car from and bring up the issues

Could you get this 'bolt' slide over to one side, then get a tiny camera c/w light down the back of the dashboard to have a look ?? Would imagine they would have a borescope camera or similar ??

Tite003 said: I did not say "many bolts" The noise seem to be ONE bolt. The sound is obvious that me or the person who tested the car would have noticed. I agree with you the corroded bolt should be claimed to the previous OPC, not this one. Edited by Tite003 on Friday 4th March 18:43 When I said many I meant as in they wouldn’t have undone many bolts or any at all on what is most probably a visual inspection Sorry you’re now in this position and I hope it works out for you, but I see little evidence that the OPC deserves a bad mouthing in this case.

I´m not saying they were sabotaging or dropping a bolt on purpose. I did say that almost certainly someone accidentally dropped something during inspection. This possibility was admitted by the guy who was working on the car. I´m not bad mouthing, I have first spoken this with them openly and I´m free to post my experience on here to ask for advice, am I not?

Tite003 said: I´m not saying they were sabotaging or dropping a bolt on purpose. I did say that almost certainly someone accidentally dropped something during inspection. This possibility was admitted by the guy who was working on the car. I´m not bad mouthing, I have first spoken this with them openly and I´m free to post my experience on here to ask for advice, am I not? I based my comment on you bad mouthing the OPC based on what you called the thread.

Tite003 said: I´m not saying they were sabotaging or dropping a bolt on purpose. I did say that almost certainly someone accidentally dropped something during inspection. This possibility was admitted by the guy who was working on the car. I´m not bad mouthing, I have first spoken this with them openly and I´m free to post my experience on here to ask for advice, am I not? As someone who put their Panamera in for a minor service at an OPC and found a socket wrench on the back seat when I got the car home, I am certainly open to the suggestion that “accidents” happen in unexpected places at OPCs.

911wise said: I based my comment on you bad mouthing the OPC based on what you called the thread. Well, I´m having a bad experience with them, I believe the title of the thread to be quite precise!

For the first time in my life I see myself sadly in the situation of having to sell a car that I bought just 4 months ago. The main reason is that I have to unexpectedly move to a different address, but I´m also not getting along with the car. The car is a beautiful 2018 991.2 Carrera 4 GTS that I bought from Porsche Cardiff back in October. Knowing that I´m about to take a considerable financial hit, I contacted several Porsche dealers to sell the car on SOR basis to try to loose as little as possible. From all the ones I talked to, I chose Porsche because the agent seemed like a nice person. He told me I should only have to leave the car there for a 111 checkpoint (paid by myself) and then they would advertise the car, but that I had nothing to worry because since I had bought it as an “approved” car from another dealer just 4 months ago, the car would most likely be in perfect condition. So I drove there and left the car. He inspected it thoroughly and took it for a drive. All was good. I left the car there and they did the 111 checkpoint. A few days after they sent the report among picky things like “smeary wiper blades”, the report came back with 2 issues not covered by warranty: 1- They detected “corroded fixings but secure” in the exhaust mounts. Apparently the underbody of the car has now become rusty during these 4 months in my possession and they now want over £500 pounds to fix this in order to advertise the car… They say this issue should have been spotted and fixed by the other Porsche centre before they sold the car to me and asked me to call them to see if they can do something as a “goodwill”… I´m not happy with this, but I was willing to accept it, the problem came with the next issue they detected: 2- The detected a “rattle” behind the dashboard. I was so shocked when I read this, that I went there on the same day and asked them to test drive the car to see what they were talking about. They let me the keys and, in fact, there is now a huge, very obvious rattle. It sounds like a loose bolt or something running around the back of the dashboard and making a huge noise when you take a corner, going from one side of the car to the other. I told them the car DID NOT have this problem when I left it there and I reminded them that the person in charge of checking the car when I left it here went for a drive and he has confirmed he did not detect any noise then. They are asking over £900 to dismantle the dashboard and get this loose part. I have tried to reason with them, telling them the car did not have this issue when I left it and even one of them test drove the car and did not detect any rattle which confirms my theory (the rattle is very, very obvious and you can hear this loose part rolling around when you take a corner). Unfortunately they are not listening and ask me to pay to pay both bills if I want to leave my care there for sale. Any suggestions on what should I do? I would gladly take the car back and try to sell it via other dealer or independent, but now I have a car with an obvious rattle that they won´t fix just because almost certainly they stuff accidentally dropped a bolt inside the car. Mod edit. No name and shame please

It’s hard to imagine a scenario that many bolts are undone during an inspection. Let alone them dropping one into an inaccessible area. My guess is that something has just come loose or you just didn’t notice it. The corroded bolts aren’t their fault either, so I would vent your anger at Cardiff OPC who sold it to you that way. Why should/would pick up the bill?

981SPYGANG said: Having only had the car 4 months and it being an ‘approved’ car can you not return it to OPC Cardiff and ask them to have a look at the problems that have been brought to your attention by another OPC? What mileage have you done in those 4 months? The car did not have any problems during my ownership. I contacted several centres for the SOR, the previous OPC did not reply back. The rattle noise happened for the first time while the car was in their possession. As as said, not me or the guy who test drove the car when I left it there could hear anything at all. I have done 3,000 miles, basically a road trip to Spain, which is going to be very costly by the looks of it! 911wise said: It’s hard to imagine a scenario that many bolts are undone during an inspection. Let alone them dropping one into an inaccessible area. My guess is that something has just come loose or you just didn’t notice it. The corroded bolts aren’t their fault either, so I would vent your anger at Cardiff OPC who sold it to you that way. Why should/would pick up the bill? I did not say "many bolts" The noise seem to be ONE bolt. The sound is obvious that me or the person who tested the car would have noticed. I agree with you the corroded bolt should be claimed to the previous OPC, not this one. Edited by Tite003 on Friday 4th March 18:43

I have a lot of time for Porsche I sold my GT3 to them. I have also had dealings with Porsche Cardiff.

CloudStuff said: I have a lot of time for Porsche I sold my GT3 to them. I have also had dealings with Porsche Cardiff. Glad you had a good experience.

Sorry to hear of your troubles but I have dealt with for best part of 30, years and have had nothing but exemplary service from them - even resolving ( at zero cost to me) a brake issue I had with a 996 Turbo which I had bought from another OPC and which they couldn’t/wouldn’t resolve. As stated by previous posters the 111 check does not involve any dismantling and I would say your claim is against OPC Cardiff

WG said: Sorry to hear of your troubles but I have dealt with for best part of 30, years and have had nothing but exemplary service from them - even resolving ( at zero cost to me) a brake issue I had with a 996 Turbo which I had bought from another OPC and which they couldn’t/wouldn’t resolve. As stated by previous posters the 111 check does not involve any dismantling and I would say your claim is against OPC Cardiff I know they have a good reputation, it was the main reason for me the leave the car there. It´s a shame things are going this way. I had the chance to speak to the guy who worked on my car the other day, he admitted someone might have dropped something and told me they were going to try to use some sort of cameras to see what was loose exactly. But today I spoke to someone else and she was inflexible, she told me they would not investigate and if I wanted that fixed I would have to pay for it...

I’d be driving it back to OPC Cardiff and asking why bolts didn’t flag up in their 111 which I believe cars have in order to get ‘approved’ status. Buying from an OPC should enable you to have both problems looked at. Kinda why you paid 5-10% more than buying privately. As said earlier I think you need to be speaking to Cardiff and not

There are not many bolts holding a dash in or together, I would drive it and throw it about a bit and see what falls out. A lady at my daughters school was crying in the car park, her daughter had dropped a £1 coin in through the air vent and Landrover had looked that morning and quoted £1200 to take the dash out. It took me 10-15 mins and lost some skin off my knuckles but I got it out without any specialist tools.

BlackWidow13 said: As someone who put their Panamera in for a minor service at an OPC and found a socket wrench on the back seat when I got the car home, I am certainly open to the suggestion that “accidents” happen in unexpected places at OPCs. Yes, I know these things can happen accidentally, that´s why I´m asking them to at least investigate.

Just walk dude , take it on the chin and chalk it down to experience . Today OPC hold the cards unless you are super famous super rich eg by a car every year brand new , ..be really good looking is icing I guess . Truthfully best to just deal with one OPC build a relationship with a salesman/woman or two , meet the mechanic and say hi to the dealer principal and send a genuine Christmas card every year —you know stuff like that Best you will get good will worst they will remember you as a decent bloke/woman etc . Good luck with the repair , pay the money ( its peaceful ) drive your car and smile in Europe alps , Autobahn , M6 to Scotland —its really beautiful .

Take it back to where you bought it from 4mths ago and tell them you have a rattle in the dashboard. Presumably your car will have a 2yr warranty on it. As for the rusted bolts...probably just do as advised - talk to the OPC you bought from and ask if it had been checked (maybe say a mate had been looking over your car and noticed it. Or simply note you're looking to sell it - they may need stock ). Problem is, the last 4mths is over winter, just when you'll pick up road grime that could cause issues.

PS Did you try the place you bought it from to sell it? And did you really go with the other OPC because the sales chap was nice, or because they proposed the highest return...?

Murph7355 said: PS Did you try the place you bought it from to sell it? And did you really go with the other OPC because the sales chap was nice, or because they proposed the highest return...? I went with the other OPC because the OPC in which I bought originally never replied my last email enquiring about SOR or buy back. Only had some other quotes from a couple of specialists, which were, actually, cheaper than this OPC

Some experiences and outcomes at https://rennlist.com/forums/991/823363-991-rattlin...

The rattle sounds like bad luck to me. It's conceivable they've dropped something down there but unlikely and once they've denied it you've nowhere to go on that front. However, does anyone seriously believe a bolt on a <4 year old Porsche can have significant rust? I don't. Some superficial cosmetic rust certainly, but if it's on an exhaust bolt who's going to see it and who cares? In terms of ways forward for the OP, I'd get the car back and find someone else (not an OPC) to look for the loose item behind the dash. Get them to put the car up on a ramp and show you the rusty bolt(s) and you can then decide if anything needs doing. If they do need replacing get an indie to do it. It's still a seller's market, sell the car some other way. Although Porsche charge top whack for their used cars, their margin is huge and my experience has been that it's easy enough to get the same return elsewhere. SOR is always a risk, you're always at the mercy of the dealer.

What has WBAC offered?

The OPC that was going to sell the car for you did it’s checks and wants those problems fixed before it sells the car. Perfectly reasonable as they would have to honour any defects to a potential buyer. It’s a used car, has niggles and wear, perfectly normal you have no case. I would even go further and say you have no case with Cardiff either. You have done 3000 miles on a trip to Spain, you may have been sympathetic to the car or not, who knows? You may have even tracked the car for all we know. It’s irrelevant. Sell it to WBAC or Cazoo probably similar offer or better than OPC. Failing that… private sale. It’s unfortunate you having to sell the car but sometimes there are people that buy a car to then flip it shortly after for a small profit. Not saying it’s you but it’s known to happen. Good luck with the sale. Like you said nice car should be easy to sell really.

“ I had the chance to speak to the guy who worked on my car the other day, he admitted someone might have dropped something and told me they were going to try to use some sort of cameras to see what was loose exactly. “ Mechanic admits they probably dropped something and it’s the OP’s fault ? So many car dealer fanboys on here lol.

Suggesting a different approach. There's surprisingly little 'behind' the dash in terms of areas where a bolt, or whatever, can get trapped and rattle around other than into the heating/air ducts. If you get your head into the footwells and look upwards (with a torch to assist visibility) you'll see that there's a lot of space and most areas are accessible. I'd focus on trying to work out where the rattle is coming from and take it from there. If you're not competent or confident enough to investigate and retrieve the offending item yourself, I'm sure a indy dealer would deal with this at minimum cost. I'd be most surprised if the dash needed removal. Worst case, as I suggested, would be that the bolt has fallen into the heating/air ducting but even a lot of that is fairly accessible. James Edited to say: I don't know where you are located but I'm Midlands based; I'd be happy to see if we could locate and remove the source if the logistics made any sense. Edited by short-shift on Saturday 5th March 08:20

And another thought. I'm struggling to see why a 111-Point Inspection could result in anything getting into the 'behind dash' area. Much more likely is that something has been dropped into the front bulkhead area, the zone forward of the windscreen and behind the frunk rear bulkhead. The large black plastic covering panel here would have been removed during the inspection, and something dropped into that area would also account for the 'rolling from side to side' noises. So, I'd remove the panel that covers the battery, brake servo and other gubbins and have a really good furtle-around in there. Taking out the battery will give you good visibility all around. Much more likely that there's an errant tool or similar rolling around in that area than 'behind' the dash. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 5th March 09:38

Trooned out said: “ I had the chance to speak to the guy who worked on my car the other day, he admitted someone might have dropped something and told me they were going to try to use some sort of cameras to see what was loose exactly. “ Mechanic admits they probably dropped something and it’s the OP’s fault ? So many car dealer fanboys on here lol. Doesn´t make sense, right? I have noticed that the ad they had for my car on autotrader mysteriously disappeared last night shortly after I started this thread, which means someone at the OPC or someone close is monitoring this thread. Not sure why they have done this... I would not be surprised if some of the comments on here are just what is nowadays called "online reputation management"! I posted the same thread on a facebook Porsche Onwers group and 100% of the comments were from friendly people trying to offer genuine advise, some of them very helpful. I guess since on facebook you normally show your face and real name is not so easy to try to "influence" the opinion! To anyone in the OPC, if you´re reading this. The best reputation management is decent customer support!

short-shift said: And another thought. I'm struggling to see why a 111-Point Inspection could result in anything getting into the 'behind dash' area. Much more likely is that something has been dropped into the front bulkhead area, the zone forward of the windscreen and behind the frunk rear bulkhead. The large black plastic covering panel here would have been removed during the inspection, and something dropped into that area would also account for the 'rolling from side to side' noises. So, I'd remove the panel that covers the battery, brake servo and other gubbins and have a really good furtle-around in there. Taking out the battery will give you good visibility all around. Much more likely that there's an errant tool or similar rolling around in that area than 'behind' the dash. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 5th March 09:38 Yes, sorry I did not make this clear. You can hear something behind the dash, but I´m sure if they were to drop something accidentally, it must have been in the front area, where the battery is. That is what I said to the mechanic and he admitted as a possibility.

Collecting Cars.

Just take it back to the original dealer and get them to fix it? Then you can sell it however you choose, seems pretty simple, I appreciate it must be annoying however.

Why the fixation on SOR, why not just sell it back to the original dealer? Edited by Swampy1982 on Saturday 5th March 11:05

Tite003 said: Yes, sorry I did not make this clear. You can hear something behind the dash, but I´m sure if they were to drop something accidentally, it must have been in the front area, where the battery is. That is what I said to the mechanic and he admitted as a possibility. Well then, it's a simple job to lift and remove the cover and have a good look around! If something (a bolt, or a socket head or other tool?) has been dropped in there but is free to roll around, it will almost certainly be easy to spot and retrieve. And if it's a tool you pull-out, you can take great delight in showing it to the OPC... James

Tite003 said: Doesn´t make sense, right? I have noticed that the ad they had for my car on autotrader mysteriously disappeared last night shortly after I started this thread, which means someone at the OPC or someone close is monitoring this thread. Not sure why they have done this... I would not be surprised if some of the comments on here are just what is nowadays called "online reputation management"! I posted the same thread on a facebook Porsche Onwers group and 100% of the comments were from friendly people trying to offer genuine advise, some of them very helpful. I guess since on facebook you normally show your face and real name is not so easy to try to "influence" the opinion! To anyone in the OPC, if you´re reading this. The best reputation management is decent customer support! Which facebook group did you post this thread. I must say some comments you have received here are quite harsh but equally some PHers are genuinely trying to help you..

Yes, of course! There have been many helpful comments on here! Some of them not so much, that’s why I’m joking about the “reputation management”. Porsche Owners UK. Good some really good advice from 911UK aswell.

Tite003 said: Doesn´t make sense, right? I have noticed that the ad they had for my car on autotrader mysteriously disappeared last night shortly after I started this thread, which means someone at the OPC or someone close is monitoring this thread. Not sure why they have done this... I would not be surprised if some of the comments on here are just what is nowadays called "online reputation management"! I posted the same thread on a facebook Porsche Onwers group and 100% of the comments were from friendly people trying to offer genuine advise, some of them very helpful. I guess since on facebook you normally show your face and real name is not so easy to try to "influence" the opinion! To anyone in the OPC, if you´re reading this. The best reputation management is decent customer support! The outcomes of other people’s experience on the link I shared above for you all ended up being in the frunk, despite it sounding like right behind the dash.

Try selling on Motorway.com. I sold a car via them and the process was really easy and I got strong offers from the trade and better than WBAC.

Tite003 said: Yes, of course! There have been many helpful comments on here! Some of them not so much, that’s why I’m joking about the “reputation management”. Porsche Owners UK. Good some really good advice from 911UK aswell. Sorry all the answers weren’t to your liking in a discussion forum. I for one am certainly no OPC fanboy and generally I’m quite critical of most. Anyway like I said before good luck and hope you reach a good outcome.

Oh, no need to apologise, I do enjoy a good debate!

Tite003 said: Oh, no need to apologise, I do enjoy a good debate! Glad to hear it. As it looks like you’ll be having one on Monday morning when you phone up to see why your car advert has been taken down!

911wise said: Tite003 said: Oh, no need to apologise, I do enjoy a good debate! Glad to hear it. As it looks like you’ll be having one on Monday morning when you phone up to see why your car advert has been taken down! They are free to take my car to advertise it or not. If they reject it now because I’m exposing my experience in a forum, up to them. But I would like my car to be returned in the same condition I left it! Edited by Tite003 on Saturday 5th March 16:03

Tite003 said: 911wise said: Tite003 said: Oh, no need to apologise, I do enjoy a good debate! Glad to hear it. As it looks like you’ll be having one on Monday morning when you phone up to see why your car advert has been taken down! They are free to take my car to advertise it or not. If they reject it now because I’m exposing my experience in a forum, up to them. But I would like my car to be returned in the same condition I left it! Edited by Tite003 on Saturday 5th March 16:03 Regardless of who’s to blame for what. The car only has a couple of minor issues. Would have thought you’d still be able to sell a car like that without problem anyway.

BobM said: However, does anyone seriously believe a bolt on a <4 year old Porsche can have significant rust? I don't. Some superficial cosmetic rust certainly, but if it's on an exhaust bolt who's going to see it and who cares? Bolts on exhausts can rust in no time, especially in winter with salt on the road etc, let alone years. Getting back to the OP, I would have sold the car through your supplying OPC, if you counted them out only because they did not reply to an email you have probably shot yourself in the foot needlessly. They could hardly have come back to you with the rusty bolt issue having supplied you the car, you would always have had the that is how you sold it to me defence. If you are unable to retrieve whatever is making the noise yourself then you always have the option of taking it to a garage, give them the job on the agreement that they give you a written report on what caused the noise. If it turns out to be a Snap On 10mm spanner, you take the SOR OPC to the small claims court for the bill you paid. If it turns out to be something that fell off, depending on what it is you may still be able to do the same, if not chalk it up to experience. I would check under the front luggage compartment area before you start taking the dash out, it can still sound like it is coming from the dash if it is on the other side of the bulkhead.

981Boxess said: BobM said: However, does anyone seriously believe a bolt on a <4 year old Porsche can have significant rust? I don't. Some superficial cosmetic rust certainly, but if it's on an exhaust bolt who's going to see it and who cares? If it turns out to be a Snap On 10mm spanner, Not a chance of it been a Snap On item. If a tech thought there was even a small chance he’d dropped one of his prize spanner’s in there he’d have ripped it apart to get it back!

Tite003 said: short-shift said: And another thought. I'm struggling to see why a 111-Point Inspection could result in anything getting into the 'behind dash' area. Much more likely is that something has been dropped into the front bulkhead area, the zone forward of the windscreen and behind the frunk rear bulkhead. The large black plastic covering panel here would have been removed during the inspection, and something dropped into that area would also account for the 'rolling from side to side' noises. So, I'd remove the panel that covers the battery, brake servo and other gubbins and have a really good furtle-around in there. Taking out the battery will give you good visibility all around. Much more likely that there's an errant tool or similar rolling around in that area than 'behind' the dash. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 5th March 09:38 Yes, sorry I did not make this clear. You can hear something behind the dash, but I´m sure if they were to drop something accidentally, it must have been in the front area, where the battery is. That is what I said to the mechanic and he admitted as a possibility. Good point and "best practise" is to disconnect the battery when working on a car so they could have dropped a 13mm nut?

Caddyshack said: Tite003 said: short-shift said: And another thought. I'm struggling to see why a 111-Point Inspection could result in anything getting into the 'behind dash' area. Much more likely is that something has been dropped into the front bulkhead area, the zone forward of the windscreen and behind the frunk rear bulkhead. The large black plastic covering panel here would have been removed during the inspection, and something dropped into that area would also account for the 'rolling from side to side' noises. So, I'd remove the panel that covers the battery, brake servo and other gubbins and have a really good furtle-around in there. Taking out the battery will give you good visibility all around. Much more likely that there's an errant tool or similar rolling around in that area than 'behind' the dash. James Edited by short-shift on Saturday 5th March 09:38 Yes, sorry I did not make this clear. You can hear something behind the dash, but I´m sure if they were to drop something accidentally, it must have been in the front area, where the battery is. That is what I said to the mechanic and he admitted as a possibility. Good point and "best practise" is to disconnect the battery when working on a car so they could have dropped a 13mm nut? This. The noise will be due to something being dropped when the battery was being disconnected. The sound will reverberate into the cabin. There’s zero chance something’s loose behind the dash as they won’t have been behind there. It should be relatively easy to spot once the battery cover is off. Just get in there with a small torch.

So whats the outcome after all that - any updates?

Well, after a bit of fighting and carbon copying the centre´s manager on a very long email explaining my points one by one, the after sales manager of the centre replied to my email saying he understood my frustrations and they would go ahead to investigate the rattle without me having to pay. All looks good so far, but will update again as soon as they finish the job! On that email I explained some of the points offered by some of you on this and other posts, which I think it helped a lot. So thank you very much!

1) I would never leave any car or motorbike of mine to any dealer on SOR, far too risky, 2) Try Cazoo You might get a pleasant surprise.

911wise said: Not a chance of it been a Snap On item. If a tech thought there was even a small chance he’d dropped one of his prize spanner’s in there he’d have ripped it apart to get it back! The Snap On screwdriver I’ve got in my toolbox came from the engine bay of an Audi I owned after it had been in for service years ago.

Hope you get it sorted OP; sounds a bit of a nightmare. Some of the weirdest noises I have heard in the cars I have worked on have had quite innocent and or random causes. A 993 with a polo ball under the seat; a Boxster with dog biscuits in the pollen filter housing; a Cayenne with a stone lodged between its' sump and subframe that made occupants sick from the vibrations imparted through the car; there was one Panamera with a persistent but random rattle that seemed to move around between drives, it ended up being a large snail....... now that was a fun one to get anyone to pay for!! I would second the opinions from previous replies and start by checking under the battery cover; but be aware, it's not as enclosed as earlier models and has direct access to the ground - something could have come in from outside while driving. Did you manage to create a video of the noise before you put the car in for repair?