911 - I've seen the light! - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

So I've never been a Porsche kind of guy. Don't know why, but apart from nearly buying my bosses 911 3.2 Supersport in the red braces era, I've never even thought about having one. I've got an EV coming in around 6-9 months, and like many people I imagine, during an idle moment in lockdown I constructed a 'bucket list' of cars to have before the petrol dies. I thought (and my friends nagged me) that I really should try a 911. My BMW 650i had been a fabulous daily driver but it was time to let it go after 8 years and 90,000 miles. So I did the only thing a true petrolhead could do and bought a manual 997.1 (arctic silver 61K miles, immaculate condition). I chose this very deliberately as I wanted a 911 that I could daily drive so that I got the most out of it in the 9 months or so I plan to have it, and that ruled out anything older for me. Likewise I didn't want or need the performance of anything newer so I judged that a 997.1 was probably the sweet spot. I did not drive it before buying, as I don't think that you can tell much from a test drive and usually I hate new cars because they just feel unfamiliar, but I did get it inspected. With the report I was able to negotiate into the asking price discs and pads and new tyres all round, a new tandem pump and fixing a few broken trim clips. Other than that it didn't need anything, The cam deviation data suggested that the IMS bearing was fine and no signs of bore scoring. I will get a low temp thermostat as a precaution at some point soon. I picked it up today. Why didn't anyone tell me! (Well actually they did, but I didn't listen.) This thing is fabulous. I've had and have some reasonably sporty cars (currently a BAC Mono and I've owned a gen 1 NSX for 15 years), but the 997 can absolutely hold it's head high. I've only had a couple of hours in it so far, but I can see already why people rate them so highly. Things it has in common with the NSX are a feeling of lightness and an utterly rigid body. Likewise the absence of any slack in the drivetrain. The 997 has more low down torque although the NSX encourages you to rev higher to get that VTec wail. Both feel very analogue and mechanical. The 997 feels tiny and so easy to place and in both the 997 and the NSX you see the humps at the edge of the bonnet which allow you to judge the position perfectly. The 997 has PAS unlike the NSX, and so is easier to park, but the steering feel is still excellent and on a par with the NSX. The interior quality in both is excellent and there isn't a single rattle or squeak. (I've Gliptoned the slight bit of wear on the drivers seat already.) I'm not sure it needs it but I've got it booked into Center Gravity for a full geo and corner weight setup in a few weeks as I went to make sure it is 100% right. It feels pretty good to me so far though. I'm going to enjoy driving some familiar B roads and comparing the two, but given how much an NSX costs these days the 997 seems an absolute bargain. I haven't driven a 991, but Porsche engineers must have had a few late nights wondering how to improve on this one.

Good man To be fair after 90,000 miles in a 6 series BMW the 997 is going to feel rather good Steering feel is a beautiful thing to have and much missed in all the newer stuff. Whenever I take my Cayman R out for a drive it’s always the same the first thing I notice before I am at the end of the drive is the bloody lovely steering. It’s never yet been bettered by anything modern in my fleet.

What a refreshing post, glad you found your light... Sounds like you're in for a long term treat

Great post and I love to read things like this. Enjoy your new car in good health Sir!

Welcome to the club

Well done but I think it may stay longer than 9 months as they get under your skin, unlike anything else I have driven and the engine hanging out the back makes it interesting.

Funny the same happened to me this week. Except i have seen the light… again.. this is going to be my 5th 911… after 997.1, a 991.1 a GT3 991.1 then a 991.1 for finally a 991.2 Touring.. after a few years.. i decided i needed something nice but sensible, drivable but not too old.. and got myself a 997.2 C2S in Arctic Silver like yours. I wanted some purity, some involvement, something compact enough. Reliable enough (…) and that would not break the bank as I don’t have much time to drive my cars anymore.. and i hate to know something nice is there sitting unused. Car is being prepped a bit like yours, very similar items that needed attention and dealer is getting it ready. 2009 manual car with 44k miles. Inspection gave it the green light. It needs a new exhaust as the 997.2 is just too quiet in standard form. A new steering wheel because the manuals until 2010 MY came with that godawful triangle one.. and then am thinking some bits and pieces but those are the 2 urgent ones. Am also thinking a place like centre gravity but maybe closer to London to make sure it’s in tip top shape.. the inspection did not highlight any needs in the suspension department but pretty sure a place like CG would..

How come CG get all the love and there is never any for https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/geometry-setups/ ...just curious. Are they no good at it? ..as they are much closer to me.

rosino said: Funny the same happened to me this week. Except i have seen the light… again.. this is going to be my 5th 911… after 997.1, a 991.1 a GT3 991.1 then a 991.1 for finally a 991.2 Touring.. after a few years.. i decided i needed something nice but sensible, drivable but not too old.. and got myself a 997.2 C2S in Arctic Silver like yours. I wanted some purity, some involvement, something compact enough. Reliable enough (…) and that would not break the bank as I don’t have much time to drive my cars anymore.. and i hate to know something nice is there sitting unused. Car is being prepped a bit like yours, very similar items that needed attention and dealer is getting it ready. 2009 manual car with 44k miles. Inspection gave it the green light. It needs a new exhaust as the 997.2 is just too quiet in standard form. A new steering wheel because the manuals until 2010 MY came with that godawful triangle one.. and then am thinking some bits and pieces but those are the 2 urgent ones. Am also thinking a place like centre gravity but maybe closer to London to make sure it’s in tip top shape.. the inspection did not highlight any needs in the suspension department but pretty sure a place like CG would.. Yes, likewise mine feels just fine, but I'm sure that CG will make absolutely sure it's in top spec. It's only a couple of hours from me so I will make it a day trip. I want to get the full fat 997 experience. BTW apparently it's 'center' not 'centre' because the temp got the spelling wrong when they were setting up and by the time anyone noticed too much promotional material had been created for them to want to change it Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 13th May 00:07

julian987R said: How come CG get all the love and there is never any for https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/geometry-setups/ ...just curious. Are they no good at it? ..as they are much closer to me. CG specialise in geo set up and alignment, it's all they do day in, day out, week in, week out month in mo ...., you get the picture. Put bluntly, RPMT don't. And if RPMT were to spend as much time as CG do on getting everything right prior to doing a set up, and then spend as much time actually carrying out the setup, RPMT's charges would be, how can I put this ? eye watering. None of which is saying "they're no good at it", just that CG are on another level.

Coming from an M2 Competition (and other M Cars) into a 997.2 was a revelation: so delicate, so poised, so beautiful - and THAT steering.

Billy_Whizzzz said: Coming from an M2 Competition (and other M Cars) into a 997.2 was a revelation: so delicate, so poised, so beautiful - and THAT steering. Completely. I remember back in 2009 I test drove the latest M3, C63 and RS4 over a couple of days. All great cars but they didn't quite do it for me. The wife then suggested I try a 911. The next day I test drove a two year old 997.1. Within five minutes I knew I absolutely had to have it. It just felt so good to drive.

Tobermory said: Edited by Tobermory on Friday 13th May 00:07 SNAP.............well mine is 08 with 54k but otherwise the same. Mine had Carnewal cross over pipes that do away with the mid box behind the bumper, I bought it with this done years earlier but its perfect. Its a bit too noisey on cold start mode for 30secs but after that its the way it should be from factory, I wouldn't want it quieter, I'd want louder still if anything.

Tobermory said: I picked it up today. Why didn't anyone tell me! (Well actually they did, but I didn't listen.) This thing is fabulous. I've had and have some reasonably sporty cars (currently a BAC Mono and I've owned a gen 1 NSX for 15 years), but the 997 can absolutely hold it's head high. I've only had a couple of hours in it so far, but I can see already why people rate them so highly. .... I'm not sure it needs it but I've got it booked into Center Gravity for a full geo and corner weight setup in a few weeks as I went to make sure it is 100% right. It feels pretty good to me so far though. I think that is exactly same as I felt after getting my 996 after 15years out of 911s and driving more modern stuff. What hits immediately is the driver involvement (perfect driving position for me), compactness and tactility of the experience irrespective of the speed or performance you are extracting. Once you get the geo done and a bit of time at the wheel, you'll experience another level of satisfaction. Nailing a tricky bend is a bit like middling a ball at cricket or making a perfect volley.

I have always liked 997s and they do seem to come from a simpler era -I was not always a Porsche fan and spent de decades with BMWs. I went in at the deep end in 2007 and got a new 997.1RS. I still have it. ‘Nuff said Glad you are enjoying your 997!

Slippydiff said: CG specialise in geo set up and alignment, it's all they do day in, day out, week in, week out month in mo ...., you get the picture. Put bluntly, RPMT don't. And if RPMT were to spend as much time as CG do on getting everything right prior to doing a set up, and then spend as much time actually carrying out the setup, RPMT's charges would be, how can I put this ? eye watering. None of which is saying "they're no good at it", just that CG are on another level. What are we typically getting done at CG for a road car...assume the road package? Chassis Tuning looks a bit more track focussed.

Boring Mediocre Wagon

julian987R said: Boring Mediocre Wagon I actually really liked my 650i, they’re great effortless cruisers and despite the comical lack of rear seat space, the boot is vast. The sound is a sort of muted Nascar rumble though they are definitely not the best handling cars, fast swapping corners would have you gripping the steering wheel nervously! Still a nice way to cover long distances but the 997 is on a different planet, engagement wise. My further thoughts on the 997, it’s so small and easy to place, and the drivetrain is so well engineered that it’s ridiculously fast in the real world. I did not expect that. I was also a little worried that going for a manual might be a mistake as my daily commute ends with 20 mins of crawling through 20mph zones but the 997 is so silky smooth that’s it’s no problem at all, and then when you hit the hood roads you’ve got the joy of the manual box. I’ve ordered some replacements for the sticky knobs and climate switches and also new floor mats, other than that there’s nothing more to do cosmetically. I’ll fit the Bluetooth module at the same time.

Tobermory said: julian987R said: Boring Mediocre Wagon I actually really liked my 650i, the boot is vast. Exactly, that is why they are perfect for travelling photocopier toner salesmen.

julian987R said: Tobermory said: julian987R said: Boring Mediocre Wagon I actually really liked my 650i, the boot is vast. Exactly, that is why they are perfect for travelling photocopier toner salesmen. Gosh Julian do you ever read any of your responses / posts back to yourself before pressing the Submit button?

Welcome aboard. I’ve no doubt the 911 is the best car in the world. I’m on my fifth…

LemonTart said: Gosh Julian do you ever read any of your responses / posts back to yourself before pressing the Submit button? Judging by some the gems he posts, I’d say rarely, if ever.

LemonTart said: Gosh Julian do you ever read any of your responses / posts back to yourself before pressing the Submit button? Well there was complete agreement with me then, so figured I'd mention it again in a different thread. but yep I have made that point before. won't mention it again. best regards

Words fail me…..if only you’d join in with that premise

Getting back to the topic, I’m impressed at how clever the packaging of the 911 is. There’s enough room for my luggage and passengers for 99% of occasions (now my kids are above school run age the times when I’ve had more than one passenger are very few) and if I ever have a particularly large consignment of toner to deliver I can always borrow my wife’s car

Tobermory said: Getting back to the topic, I’m impressed at how clever the packaging of the 911 is. There’s enough room for my luggage and passengers for 99% of occasions (now my kids are above school run age the times when I’ve had more than one passenger are very few) and if I ever have a particularly large consignment of toner to deliver I can always borrow my wife’s car I use mine to go to go over to my place in France and am always amazed what I can get in it.

First Sea Lord said: Completely. I remember back in 2009 I test drove the latest M3, C63 and RS4 over a couple of days. All great cars but they didn't quite do it for me. The wife then suggested I try a 911. The next day I test drove a two year old 997.1. Within five minutes I knew I absolutely had to have it. It just felt so good to drive. Would love to hear more on the comparisons vs E92 M3 & M2 if either of you had anything else to say on it? In a 997.1 just now and love the drive but always plotting a route forward as the children grow bigger!

A few more thoughts a week on. I fitted the Mr12Volt bluetooth adaptor at the weekend and also replaced the climate control switches that had the usual horrid sticky paint, I've ordered some more PCM knobs as well. Things I don't like so far: It would be nice to have a track forward/back button on the steering wheel. Why don't the steering wheel controls work when the ignition is off? I find it hard to tell if I have locked the car or not as there is only one door lock button on the remote and no visible indicator in the car. People in (probably leased at twice the price of the 997) SUV's won't let you in at junctions ;-) Things I like: The steering feel is amazing, I'm learning things about roads that I have driven for years. It's really confidence inspiring along side the ability to rotate the car on the throttle, really special and unlike any car I have driven before. That old cliche about the car 'talking to you' actually makes sense. Actually the only other cars I can think of that gives me this level of feed back are the Mono and a Caterham, and they are both much more compromised in other ways. How did Porsche do that? Why does no one go on about the gearbox? The quality of the gear shift, meaty with a hint of notchiness yet silky smooth, and the perfectly matched clutch action and lack of drivetrain shunt is as impressive as the steering. The sound of course, throaty yet not too much. Like your dog who will lick you playfully, yet you are aware that he could choose to bite your arm off if he wanted. It coped with a trip to B&Q to pick up 88kg of gravel at the weekend, so it's practical as well. I'm seriously considering cancelling my order for the EV6 GT, this might be a keeper.

997 is a great car. I had a manual .2, a base 3.6 but with 19s and PASM and a few other nice options. Sold it for a new 981 Cayman S PDK because I loved the looks and wanted a more modern interior. Great car though the Cayman was, it didn't sound as good and the electric sterring wasn't a patch on the 997's - sometimes it was nice just to hold the wheel with my fingertips and feel all that was going on. In theory, if I came across a very good one now it wold suit me very well, I think. But then I'm smitten with my 991T.

Tobermory said: I haven't driven a 991, but Porsche engineers must have had a few late nights wondering how to improve on this one. Not sure you need to bother. These have electric steering and it is nowhere near as good as the hydraulic systems. Some people think they are getting better but I'm not sure if that means better than a 997 or just better than rubbish.

Tobermory said: A few more thoughts a week on. I find it hard to tell if I have locked the car or not as there is only one door lock button on the remote and no visible indicator in the car. Irritating, isn't it?

Zumbruk said: Irritating, isn't it? Yup, I find myself walking back to check the handle which makes everyone around think I'm just being precious I had occasion to drive the Honda into London today which was a nice opportunity to compare the two. Both are very, very special cars. The Honda feels much more 'exotic', it's lower and you have that sensation of sitting at the tip of an arrow. The looks are more dramatic especially in the red/ black combination. The engine noise is closer behind you and has a mechanical whine which turns into a wail as you rev it and the VTEC kicks in. In short it feels like a 90's supercar. The 997 by contrast feels shorter and narrower (it isn't) and more 'normal' but also just 'right' in its balance. The power steering makes it much easier to park. The gear change in the Honda is much lighter and switch like, as is the clutch, but the 997 feels deliciously weighty and slick. There's no right or wrong they're just different and both equally effective. As I mentioned the 997 has more low down torque, but the Honda revs more freely. The biggest difference is the steering. Bearing in mind that I know the Honda much better (17 years!), I can see why road testers of the day complained that the NSX had numb steering. It doesn't but what it does have is a central area of reduced feel which means that when driving straight, or beginning a corner, you get very little feel. As you turn sharper and the steering weights up it begins to talk to you and then you can judge the cornering grip in a way that must have left Ferrari owners of the day scratching their heads. The NSX gives you feedback when you need it, otherwise it leaves you in peace. I took the NSX to a track recently and was astonished at how easy it was to drive quite hard. I don't think I would have been as brave in the 997. The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly. I suspect this was a deliberate decision by Honda, to filter out the feedback when you don't need it , and then then feed it in as you start to require the feel. that makes it a more relaxing and confidence inspiring drive. Porsche I think went for a different approach where the steering talks to you the whole time, like a chatty friend. I think you could jump in an NSX and drive it faster sooner, while the 997 would take longer to learn. I think that both engineering teams have looked at the same problem and come up with their own individual solutions, and have achieved exactly what they set out to. Both are deeply impressive and complimentary. I wouldn't say one was better than the other at all. As a daily driver the 997 wins hands down, certainly over the non PAS NSX, but the NSX is marginally more of an event to drive. And given the relative values the 997 is an absolute bargain. If I had to choose just one to keep as a daily driver it would probably be the Porsche.

Tobermory said: The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly. If you like steering feel then you should try a 996 running the factory 17 inch setup.

ATM said: Tobermory said: The 997 by contrast talks to you constantly. If you like steering feel then you should try a 996 running the factory 17 inch setup. This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way)

CG did my 997.2. Chris did a forensic inspection & found suspension & brake issues. As most of their work is Porsche they carry parts, so I had it done. Needless to say the car was transformed. You imagine the line you want to take through a corner & the car just follows it. Have recently PX'd her for a 991.2. First thing I did was book into CG as the waiting list is 2 months. So reassuring to know your suspension components, brakes and set up are as good as when new. Or maybe better?

Slippydiff said: This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way) I'm booked into CG in a couple of weeks. The car has new discs pads and tyres so a good starting point I hope. It feels pretty good already though.

Tobermory said: Slippydiff said: This ^ (though with the caveat that any air cooled car will be on another level altogether when compared to a 996) and by the same token, I wouldn't be drawing too many conclusions on the 997's steering/suspension at this early stage, because once CG have been through the car and fettled its suspension, it will quite possibly be an altogether different car (in a good way) I'm booked into CG in a couple of weeks. The car has new discs pads and tyres so a good starting point I hope. It feels pretty good already though. CG will work wonders on your car. They transformed my 997.2 Turbo. It will now be one of the first thing I always do when buying a new Porsche.

I really think the 997 was a high point in the life of the 911. A basic 997 is a sublime thing to drive and to me the 991 (in non GT trims) could never match it. If I didn't have my Cayman R, I'd be shopping for a 997. Great to hear how much the OP is enjoying his. Tobermory said: I'm seriously considering cancelling my order for the EV6 GT, this might be a keeper. As I see it, the 997 is peak 911 and EVs are in their (relative) infancy. I'd keep the 997 as I don't think we are too far from EVs making a giant leap forward and ICE cars becoming harder to justify (financially). Though it's all just speculation for now.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and especially the comparisons with the NSX. For me the Porsches of this era give a driving experience that feels natural or right in a way that virtually no other cars can match. By that I mean stuff like driving position, steering feel, weighting of pedals/steering/gearlever, sound, usability and weight as well as handling dynamics. As time passes it's interesting to see that 996/997 will be a peak* of the 911 story - as others have mentioned it's a sweet spot of the tactility of the older generations and the ergonomics and performance etc of the modern era. (* the other peak for me being around 70-73)

Will be picking up my 991.1 GT3 in a couple of weeks and I'm already certain that one of the first things I should do is pop over to CG and get them to check it over. The car's over 7 years old and had 3 owners, so I've no idea what sort of life it's had - I am sure CG could probably wash away any accumulated problems without a second thought. Oh and like the OP, I'd never ever thought about a Porsche as an option, but recently I've cycled through all sorts of things I might like to own - a 458, Vanquish, Vantage V12, 570GT..... as soon as I clapped eyes on the GT3 at the dealer I knew I wanted that above all the others.

Tobermory said: I'm booked into CG in a couple of weeks. The car has new discs pads and tyres so a good starting point I hope. It feels pretty good already though. Have you been yet ? Interested in your feedback as I’m booked in 1st August .

Regarding Centre Gravity - do they ask you what set up you want (ie "track day" or "fast road use"), or do they simply adjust everything to a set up they think is best for the make and model of car in question? Thanks.

Zumbruk said: Tobermory said: A few more thoughts a week on. I find it hard to tell if I have locked the car or not as there is only one door lock button on the remote and no visible indicator in the car. Irritating, isn't it? indicators flash once for open, twice for locked on mine.

Hereward said: Regarding Centre Gravity - do they ask you what set up you want (ie "track day" or "fast road use"), or do they simply adjust everything to a set up they think is best for the make and model of car in question? Thanks. Yes, CG set the car up to your specific needs with the suspension setup you have already (or are having installed by them) - obviously if you have standard parts, the spec is limited that they can work to although if you have adjustable coil-overs, they have a wider range including ride height changes. In my situation, I had already had fitted new uprated shocks & lowering springs, top mounts and coffin arms etc. following attending one of their winter clinics about 18 months prior as they had identified worn top mounts, coffin arms, bump stops etc. and I took the position that whilst it was all in pieces I may as well save the labour of going back in to have the shocks/springs replaced later. I had my car set-up by them to a fast-road spec and it drives so much better for what I need.

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MrC986 said: Hereward said: Regarding Centre Gravity - do they ask you what set up you want (ie "track day" or "fast road use"), or do they simply adjust everything to a set up they think is best for the make and model of car in question? Thanks. Yes, CG set the car up to your specific needs with the suspension setup you have already (or are having installed by them) - obviously if you have standard parts, the spec is limited that they can work to although if you have adjustable coil-overs, they have a wider range including ride height changes. In my situation, I had already had fitted new uprated shocks & lowering springs, top mounts and coffin arms etc. following attending one of their winter clinics about 18 months prior as they had identified worn top mounts, coffin arms, bump stops etc. and I took the position that whilst it was all in pieces I may as well save the labour of going back in to have the shocks/springs replaced later. I had my car set-up by them to a fast-road spec and it drives so much better for what I need. Many thanks for that. I hadn't realised they supply and fit components too.

Mick Dastardly said: Nice!

I honestly believe the 997 is the sweet spot of 911 sports cars. It’s compact with clean and pure lines and the hydraulic steering gives fantastic feedback, and I honestly wouldn’t swap mine for a newer 911. Mine’s a 17 year old bore score car, so although it’s done 107k the new engine is only on 35k, so barely run in. I’ve a BGTS on the way to replace my wife’s elderly Boxster so planned on getting rid of mine, but then realised there’s nothing I wanted to replace it with, so I bit the bullet and had it completely restored underneath: completely new suspension, Bilstein shocks, h&m lowering kit (-30mm, it’s firm but compliant), plus loads of other stuff while they were in there, and now it drives better than it did when it left the factory. The bodywork is a bit tatty but I quite like the fact it shows the patina of its years, so I plan to drive the arse off it for the foreseeable future. Edited by Mick Dastardly on Saturday 18th June 09:23

Marley71 said: indicators flash once for open, twice for locked on mine. Same here.

legzr1 said: Marley71 said: indicators flash once for open, twice for locked on mine. Same here. Thanks I’ll keep an eye out for that. The cars booked into CG the week after next Now the honeymoon period has worn off my thoughts have changed a bit. It’s even better than I first realised I got to use it in seats folded luggage carrying mode. I repeat it’s a very clever piece of packaging.

Tobermory said: So I've never been a Porsche kind of guy. Don't know why, but apart from nearly buying my bosses 911 3.2 Supersport in the red braces era, I've never even thought about having one. I've got an EV coming in around 6-9 months, and like many people I imagine, during an idle moment in lockdown I constructed a 'bucket list' of cars to have before the petrol dies. I thought (and my friends nagged me) that I really should try a 911. My BMW 650i had been a fabulous daily driver but it was time to let it go after 8 years and 90,000 miles. So I did the only thing a true petrolhead could do and bought a manual 997.1 (arctic silver 61K miles, immaculate condition). I chose this very deliberately as I wanted a 911 that I could daily drive so that I got the most out of it in the 9 months or so I plan to have it, and that ruled out anything older for me. Likewise I didn't want or need the performance of anything newer so I judged that a 997.1 was probably the sweet spot. I did not drive it before buying, as I don't think that you can tell much from a test drive and usually I hate new cars because they just feel unfamiliar, but I did get it inspected. With the report I was able to negotiate into the asking price discs and pads and new tyres all round, a new tandem pump and fixing a few broken trim clips. Other than that it didn't need anything, The cam deviation data suggested that the IMS bearing was fine and no signs of bore scoring. I will get a low temp thermostat as a precaution at some point soon. I picked it up today. Why didn't anyone tell me! (Well actually they did, but I didn't listen.) This thing is fabulous. I've had and have some reasonably sporty cars (currently a BAC Mono and I've owned a gen 1 NSX for 15 years), but the 997 can absolutely hold it's head high. I've only had a couple of hours in it so far, but I can see already why people rate them so highly. Things it has in common with the NSX are a feeling of lightness and an utterly rigid body. Likewise the absence of any slack in the drivetrain. The 997 has more low down torque although the NSX encourages you to rev higher to get that VTec wail. Both feel very analogue and mechanical. The 997 feels tiny and so easy to place and in both the 997 and the NSX you see the humps at the edge of the bonnet which allow you to judge the position perfectly. The 997 has PAS unlike the NSX, and so is easier to park, but the steering feel is still excellent and on a par with the NSX. The interior quality in both is excellent and there isn't a single rattle or squeak. (I've Gliptoned the slight bit of wear on the drivers seat already.) I'm not sure it needs it but I've got it booked into Center Gravity for a full geo and corner weight setup in a few weeks as I went to make sure it is 100% right. It feels pretty good to me so far though. I'm going to enjoy driving some familiar B roads and comparing the two, but given how much an NSX costs these days the 997 seems an absolute bargain. I haven't driven a 991, but Porsche engineers must have had a few late nights wondering how to improve on this one. If you really want to challenge your prejudices then do the same with an early (manual) 2.5 Boxster. Even better steer. I say that having owned many 911’s, Lotus, McLaren etc.

bennno said: If you really want to challenge your prejudices then do the same with an early (manual) 2.5 Boxster. Even better steer. I say that having owned many 911’s, Lotus, McLaren etc. Agreed. We’ve owned a 986.2 2.7 for the last 15 years and whilst it’s not the quickest thing, a spirited drive on the sweeping moorland roads near me is still immense fun, and always reminds me what nimble, beautifully balanced little cars early Boxsters are. So much so that when my BGTS arrives the old car is being SORNed in my eldest sons garage, for him and his brothers to enjoy as a fun classic car in the future.

Tobermory said: Thanks I’ll keep an eye out for that. . Leave the centre console open and you’ll get a beep when locking.

Very interesting thread… I was about to get a Taycan, but also thought to get a 911 before they go extinct in the fossil-fuel form. So I changed my order to 992 C2S and I took a Boxster 300PS with MT, off the floor for few months while I am waiting for the new 911. I absolutely love the Boxster, it is 2016 MY, I.e. the last one with anti-social exhaust system fitted as standard. All new models are progressively quieter and I guess more refined. It’s solid, no rattles (I am allergic to rattles) and it handles like a go-cart. No, better than go-cart! I have never had a 911 and I was tempted to get an older model, but then I thought that I will battle to convince myself to upgrade few months later. I have been waiting for new 911 for almost 12 months and now when it actually arrives, I am scheming to keep the Boxster for some time, until I get it out of my system. My better half will not be impressed, so eventually I will have to let it go, but if 911 is anything like Boxster, or better, it is worth the wait!

Mick Dastardly said: Agreed. We’ve owned a 986.2 2.7 for the last 15 years and whilst it’s not the quickest thing, a spirited drive on the sweeping moorland roads near me is still immense fun, and always reminds me what nimble, beautifully balanced little cars early Boxsters are. So much so that when my BGTS arrives the old car is being SORNed in my eldest sons garage, for him and his brothers to enjoy as a fun classic car in the future. PELP

Just got back from visiting Center Gravity. My what an experience that was! Chris is a thoroughly delightful guy and his knowledge of Porsche's and suspensions physics is encyclopaedic. He did a pre-geo test drive of the car, explaining how the route he uses has various road types and surfaces to allow different aspects to be tested. You could already see from the drive what might need looking at in terms of tracking, Next he did basically a full mechanical inspection of the whole suspicions and underbody components including all the notorious 997 coolant pipes (not what I had expected from a geo appointment). It revealed that my car had actually been really well looked after, which was good to know. He also replied grease to the various bushes etc to protect them Next he checked the geo, and surprise surprise it showed exactly what he had demonstrated in the test drive, how did he do that? Then a (very) detailed chat about me, and my experience, driving style and where I wanted to use the car before settling on a geo target. Once he had done that a further test drive and I could feel the difference at once, the car is more planted and stable, giving me more confidence (a slight high speed instability being my only concern before.) He wants to have feedback and will change anything within 3/12 if you want and you get a full report of course. More expensive (but not much) than at Quick Fit, but worth every penny. I'm looking forward to some country B road driving this weekend. It was a 2 hours drive each way but I'm very glad I made the effort.

Tobermory said: Just got back from visiting Center Gravity. My what an experience that was! Chris is a thoroughly delightful guy and his knowledge of Porsche's and suspensions physics is encyclopaedic. He did a pre-geo test drive of the car, explaining how the route he uses has various road types and surfaces to allow different aspects to be tested. You could already see from the drive what might need looking at in terms of tracking, Next he did basically a full mechanical inspection of the whole suspicions and underbody components including all the notorious 997 coolant pipes (not what I had expected from a geo appointment). It revealed that my car had actually been really well looked after, which was good to know. He also replied grease to the various bushes etc to protect them Next he checked the geo, and surprise surprise it showed exactly what he had demonstrated in the test drive, how did he do that? Then a (very) detailed chat about me, and my experience, driving style and where I wanted to use the car before settling on a geo target. Once he had done that a further test drive and I could feel the difference at once, the car is more planted and stable, giving me more confidence (a slight high speed instability being my only concern before.) He wants to have feedback and will change anything within 3/12 if you want and you get a full report of course. More expensive (but not much) than at Quick Fit, but worth every penny. I'm looking forward to some country B road driving this weekend. It was a 2 hours drive each way but I'm very glad I made the effort. Great to read this! Picked up my 991 GT3 yesterday and am booked into CG in early September, so I am hoping I have an equally uplifting experience.

Tobermory said: Just got back from visiting Center Gravity. My what an experience that was! Chris is a thoroughly delightful guy and his knowledge of Porsche's and suspensions physics is encyclopaedic. He did a pre-geo test drive of the car, explaining how the route he uses has various road types and surfaces to allow different aspects to be tested. You could already see from the drive what might need looking at in terms of tracking, Next he did basically a full mechanical inspection of the whole suspicions and underbody components including all the notorious 997 coolant pipes (not what I had expected from a geo appointment). It revealed that my car had actually been really well looked after, which was good to know. He also replied grease to the various bushes etc to protect them Next he checked the geo, and surprise surprise it showed exactly what he had demonstrated in the test drive, how did he do that? Then a (very) detailed chat about me, and my experience, driving style and where I wanted to use the car before settling on a geo target. Once he had done that a further test drive and I could feel the difference at once, the car is more planted and stable, giving me more confidence (a slight high speed instability being my only concern before.) He wants to have feedback and will change anything within 3/12 if you want and you get a full report of course. More expensive (but not much) than at Quick Fit, but worth every penny. I'm looking forward to some country B road driving this weekend. It was a 2 hours drive each way but I'm very glad I made the effort. I laughed after my visit to CG when Chris warned me to check my speedo often on the way home. He said that I’d be going faster than I had prior to getting the car sorted. He wasn’t wrong! When it felt like 70mph I’d check the speedo and I’d be doing 90! The car was so planted afterwards. The best way I can describe it is I was suddenly aware of all four wheels on the road on the way home. Before, it had just felt like a single unit of steel driving along. After they had worked their magic I could sense the feedback from each corner. It was such a weird sensation.

fear.the.raven said: Great to read this! Picked up my 991 GT3 yesterday and am booked into CG in early September, so I am hoping I have an equally uplifting experience. Worth checking tyres before your visit to CG. One of CG tricks is to look at dates on sidewalls. If the dates are out then you can have a difference in grip from one side to the other. CG will recommend changing tyres to get matching dates. Its easy to check the dates as they are printed or stamped onto the sidewalls. If you want to go further you can check the tread depth. That takes a little more effort. Swap out tyres if required. If you do this before your first visit you may get more from the appointment.

Another benefit is that it always takes me 6 months at least before I know and trust a new (old) car, you never know what’s lurking. A proper PPI plus a CG work over fast tracks that process. I feel I have a pretty good handle on this cars and what, if anything, it needs to keep it in good working order. Very reassuring.

I took my 997 GT3 for a health check over winter. I knew the rear tyres were old and due a change but also wanted to get the suspension and geo reviewed and understand what might be needed as I had a couple of track days booked plus road trip plans in my mind. Everything good on the health check and through discussion he said there’s a tyre company on the same bus estate. So I booked the car in, Chris dealt with the centre locks and dropped the wheels round and then once refitted it was set up. Great service and a really interesting guy, certainly knows his stuff.

ATM said: Worth checking tyres before your visit to CG. One of CG tricks is to look at dates on sidewalls. If the dates are out then you can have a difference in grip from one side to the other. CG will recommend changing tyres to get matching dates. Its easy to check the dates as they are printed or stamped onto the sidewalls. If you want to go further you can check the tread depth. That takes a little more effort. Swap out tyres if required. If you do this before your first visit you may get more from the appointment. Thanks, it's shod with Dunlop Sport Maxx 2's atm, they look like they've seen better days given the tread left on them so I'll look at getting them changed before heading over to CG.

Chris was taking about switching to Michelin PS4's next time instead of the P zero's I currently have on. Does any one have a view on this? (For a 997.1 C2S) Thank you

Tobermory said: Chris was taking about switching to Michelin PS4's next time instead of the P zero's I currently have on. Does any one have a view on this? (For a 997.1 C2S) Thank you If you have 19 inch then almost everyone says the PS4S is a great tyre. The PS4 is a different tyre. PS4S generally not available in sizes below 19 inch but PS4 available alongside PS4S in some sizes of 19. Don't get them confused as they are different.

ATM said: If you have 19 inch then almost everyone says the PS4S is a great tyre. The PS4 is a different tyre. PS4S generally not available in sizes below 19 inch but PS4 available alongside PS4S in some sizes of 19. Don't get them confused as they are different. Thank you. I'll probably try some PS4S next time.

Tobermory said: Chris was taking about switching to Michelin PS4's next time instead of the P zero's I currently have on. Does any one have a view on this? (For a 997.1 C2S) No brainer. Best upgrade you can make.