GT3 Over revs - AGAIN! - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi all, I've already been emailing/talking to some of you, for which I'm grateful. I own GT08FUN - Cobalt Blue, 2008, 997.1 GT3 Club Sport (Carbon seats, ceramic brakes, half cage, harness etc etc), 23k. I've recently decided to sell, after 3300 miles and 15 months of ownership - all of which has been without issue or damage. The car is immaculate and still under Porsche warranty till December 2015. Problem.... it was over revved in range 1-4 over 600 hours ago (Approx 4/5 years ago) - as far as I'm concerned and as far as my Porsche main dealer is concerned and 2 of the leading independent dealers are concerned there is absolutely no issue with my car - it was compression tested in Nov 2013 with no fault (prior to last 2 year Porsche warranty being applied). I've been back to Porsche today for a general check up and to also check that I haven't over revved during my ownership, which they have confirmed that I haven't. The senior technician who checked the car over agreed with the sentiments above - he's had previous experience working on the super cup cars. Dilemma - I want to achieve top money for my car, but some of the super geeks think it's a nail, or at least their tone suggests it! Just to confirm - Porsche & the Independents have offered to buy the car from me at a 'reasonable' price. If anyone has some genuine advice, I'd be eternally grateful. Edited by BigO1977 on Wednesday 4th March 13:03

I remember that car. Was from Solihull with 40 ignitions in range 4. I did not like that and passed. As it was over 600 hours ago the car is fine. But not everybody is up for that. Did the dealer offer anything acceptable?

I would ignore the "super Geeks" as if its good enough for Porsche etc!!!! I'm interested in this Over rev "thing", exactly what has your engine been revved to? FYI I am not a buyer, out of my range, just interested, unless you want a strait swap for my 996 TT

BigO1977 said: Hi all, I've already been emailing/talking to some of you, for which I'm grateful. I own GT08FUN - Cobalt Blue, 2008, 997.1 GT3 Club Sport (Carbon seats, ceramic brakes, half cage, harness etc etc), 23k. I've recently decided to sell, after 3300 miles and 15 months of ownership - all of which has been without issue or damage. The car is immaculate and still under Porsche warranty till December 2015. Problem.... it was over revved in range 1-4 over 600 hours ago (Approx 4/5 years ago) - as far as I'm concerned and as far as my Porsche main dealer is concerned and 2 of the leading independent dealers are concerned there is absolutely no issue with my car - it was compression tested in Nov 2013 with no fault (prior to last 2 year Porsche warranty being applied). I've been back to Porsche today for a general check up and to also check that I haven't over revved during my ownership, which they have confirmed that I haven't. The senior technician who checked the car over agreed with the sentiments above - he's had previous experience working on the super cup cars. Dilemma - I want to achieve top money for my car, but some of the super geeks think it's a nail, or at least their tone suggests it! Just to confirm - Porsche & the Independents have offered to buy the car from me at a 'reasonable' price. If anyone has some genuine advice, I'd be eternally grateful. Edited by BigO1977 on Wednesday 4th March 13:03 Knowing the car had these issues what discount to a RR free car did you pay can I ask?

BigO1977 said: I've recently decided to sell after 15 months of ownership.......................... It was over revved in range 1-4 approx 4/5 years ago............... BUT Big01977 said: I want to achieve top money for my car................ You bought the car with the over-revs. I assume you paid less as a result. You will not get "top money" for this car. Having said that if it had a valid Porsche warranty then the discount should be small. But you paid less for it, right? Lots less.

Wow, less than a 1/10th of a second (at what 8500-9000rpm?) over 600 hours ago and people really think it matters? Imagine what the over-rev numbers could be like on many earlier cars (mis-shift on a 915 'box, anyone?) if they were available - no-one would buy anything. There are 6 rev ranges from the redline onwards. Sit there and click your fingers. The engine in this thread has been in range 4 for about 1/4 of the time clicking your fingers took. Anyone rejecting that car on those grounds alone is seriously missing the wood for the trees. Reality check time!

I know what you mean Goose but with him saying he wants top money I imagine people who buy that will want an ECU with pretty much a clean bill of health. The Gen2 white car at JZM has RR1's (which as far as I know is just bouncing off the limiter. Also RR4 on a 997 GT3 is 9600-10,000 fyi.

may be so it's all about ease of sale and moving it on though, Porsche put this in the way and now it affect every sale those are the facts. car may be a minter, But the next buyer will go "it had revs in range 4" then you have to jump though hoops with bore scope testes and info to back it all up, just not worth the hassle. one of today annoying Porsche buying selling issue on a plus point you get to buy a car as a buyer knowing it's not been monkey shifted last week and is about to blow up. so how ever bad people make this over revs out to be, it's nice buying private knowing its range is clean in 3 and above.

While the car was the Porsche warranty it is fine, but without it Porsche will wash their hands of it.

Quite a good summary of what it all means here: http://www.911virgin.com/porsche/rev-range-informa... Virgin says "our purchase policy prevents us from considering a car with engine over rev activity beyond the rev limiter within the last 50 operating hours." So yours would be fine then. There will be many knowledgeable buyers out there who will pay you good money. Good luck.

Soov535 said: You bought the car with the over-revs. I assume you paid less as a result. You will not get "top money" for this car. Having said that if it had a valid Porsche warranty then the discount should be small. But you paid less for it, right? Lots less. We are thinking along the same lines Soov535 be interesting to know what sort of discount he bought the car for if at all. Also agreed if it has a Porsche warranty then all well and good until the warranty expires or the car is to old to warranty

Scooty100 said: We are thinking along the same lines Soov535 be interesting to know what sort of discount he bought the car for if at all. Also agreed if it has a Porsche warranty then all well and good until the warranty expires or the car is to old to warranty Would Porsche honour the warranty if the engine expired? I am not suggesting it will of course, it wont.

Am I right in thinking that over-revs on the GT3 are a different kettle of fish to the standard cars and turbo/GT2 - the lower limit for RR1 is a few hundred RPM over redline isn't it?

mollytherocker said: Scooty100 said: We are thinking along the same lines Soov535 be interesting to know what sort of discount he bought the car for if at all. Also agreed if it has a Porsche warranty then all well and good until the warranty expires or the car is to old to warranty Would Porsche honour the warranty if the engine expired? I am not suggesting it will of course, it wont. Yes good point MTR..chap on here with his 997 Turbo he had rare occurrence of the Mezger blowing up they warrantied the car previously with over revs and then Porsche AG said no pay out. Luckily he persevered with it all and they eventually coughed up.

Porsche have offered to buy the car back (waiting buyer?!?) and have confirmed that they will renew the warranty. Just checked the paperwork and it's actually till April 2016, so plenty of time left on the existing warranty. I paid the market rate for a low miler CS spec 997.1 from the main dealer at the time - December 2013. I don't think I paid 'a lot less' as some are suggesting - I paid less that I want for it now, but isn't that the market?!? Thanks for everyone's responses - And I think most agree that a car with over revs more than 600 hours ago that has been compression tested by the main dealer and has a current warranty, in addition to being offered a buy back by the same dealer, shouldn't be impacted too much by the over revs from many many years ago. I can't even begin to imagine what my previous 993's & 964's have gone through on the over rev front, but I suppose that isn't a concern to the market. When I say I want 'top money', I'm not unreasonable, but I don't want to offload the car for less than it's current worth, that's all. That said, the market is still very strong and the colour/spec/miles combination is pretty unique.

BigO1977 said: I can't even begin to imagine what my previous 993's & 964's have gone through on the over rev front, but I suppose that isn't a concern to the market. Exactly. The reality is that your GT3 engine is probably in no different state to one with a clear bill of rev ranges. In around 2 years time no gen 1 997 GT3 will be able to have a warranty anyway so they'll all be judged on condition, which is what any sensible buyer should be doing anyway. If you were looking long term on this car the over revs should be irrelevant.

BigO1977 said: Porsche have offered to buy the car back (waiting buyer?!?) and have confirmed that they will renew the warranty. Just checked the paperwork and it's actually till April 2016, so plenty of time left on the existing warranty. I paid the market rate for a low miler CS spec 997.1 from the main dealer at the time - December 2013. I don't think I paid 'a lot less' as some are suggesting - I paid less that I want for it now, but isn't that the market?!? Thanks for everyone's responses - And I think most agree that a car with over revs more than 600 hours ago that has been compression tested by the main dealer and has a current warranty, in addition to being offered a buy back by the same dealer, shouldn't be impacted too much by the over revs from many many years ago. I can't even begin to imagine what my previous 993's & 964's have gone through on the over rev front, but I suppose that isn't a concern to the market. When I say I want 'top money', I'm not unreasonable, but I don't want to offload the car for less than it's current worth, that's all. That said, the market is still very strong and the colour/spec/miles combination is pretty unique. Out of interest, what do you think you will advertise it at? Just curious really as I have a 997.1 GT3 with fatty bum bum seats and PCCB's but with a little more mileage than yours (as a side note, my car has NO over revs in any rev range)

On a GT3 does bouncing off the rev limiter register over revs or not, or does the limiter do its job and prevent this?

It was over revved 20 to 30k miles ago, do people really think that's a problem?

Sorry totally dumb question - but wont the rev limit dictate the damage point? Guessing Porsche here have a rev limit that is to high? Dread to think if my mx5 track car was checked - I seem to miss 4th on the exit of Clearways every other lap! Good luck with the sale, and if I was looking I would buy yours. 4 "over revs" 600 hours ago would have no affect on my potential purchase.

pete a said: On a GT3 does bouncing off the rev limiter register over revs or not, or does the limiter do its job and prevent this? RR1 = ignitions at the limiter

V8KSN said: Out of interest, what do you think you will advertise it at? Just curious really as I have a 997.1 GT3 with fatty bum bum seats and PCCB's but with a little more mileage than yours (as a side note, my car has NO over revs in any rev range) Colour and Warranty? I could do with the fatty bum seats - my ass is way too big for the carbon buckets. No over revs is quite rare, I'm led to believe by the independents I've spoken to. I'll be advertising it this weekend, so wait and see! It will be more than I've been offered by Porsche and Indy's, that's for sure.

pete a said: On a GT3 does bouncing off the rev limiter register over revs or not, or does the limiter do its job and prevent this? Pete - I've been told by a very well respected independent - 'you could drive the GT3 round the track all day bouncing off the rev limited and it won't register any over revs'. However, if the driver changes from 5th to 2nd, it'll probably register an over rev. The limiter prevents over revs on the up change, not the down change. This is the way I understand it anyway.

pete a said: On a GT3 does bouncing off the rev limiter register over revs or not, or does the limiter do its job and prevent this? The rev limiter protects the engine and is not damaging, although it is not a good idea to habitually bounce off it. Over revving is much worse. It happens when you e.g. go screaming into a corner, miss a gear by mistake going from say 5th to 3rd and force the engine to rev above the normal safe revving parameter (as set out by Porsche for any given engine).

BigO1977 said: Colour and Warranty? I could do with the fatty bum seats - my ass is way too big for the carbon buckets. No over revs is quite rare, I'm led to believe by the independents I've spoken to. I'll be advertising it this weekend, so wait and see! It will be more than I've been offered by Porsche and Indy's, that's for sure. Colour is GT Silver (very vanilla but I like it) and the warranty ran out three weeks ago... I didn't renew it.

Scooty100 said: We are thinking along the same lines Soov535 be interesting to know what sort of discount he bought the car for if at all. Also agreed if it has a Porsche warranty then all well and good until the warranty expires or the car is to old to warranty What difference does it make how much I bought the car for 15 months ago? I bought it from a main dealer as a warranted, low mileage, rare coloured, club sport spec - I can tell you now that they weren't offering much in the way of discount! They did throw in a replacement front splitter and quite a few cups of coffee. They want to buy it back - doesn't that speak volumes, or am I being completely naive? I've bought a lot of sports cars from main dealers and independents - I can honestly say that Porsche have been by far and away the best of the bunch. When the warranty expires, you just pay to have another one put on it - isn't that the way everyone does it? I can't comment on how the car will be driven by the next owner, so if they over rev it then they need to heed the consequences - Porsche are unlikely to warrant a car that's been over revved in the last 100 hours - that's what the technician said to me this morning.

V8KSN said: Colour is GT Silver (very vanilla but I like it) and the warranty ran out three weeks ago... I didn't renew it. Really nice colour - I like. Why don't you get a warranty on it? If you don't mind me asking.

BigO1977 said: Really nice colour - I like. Why don't you get a warranty on it? If you don't mind me asking. only things which go wrong are not covered , engine is strong as an ox every thing else fails but most of it is classed as consumables

GoatRider said: The rev limiter protects the engine and is not damaging, although it is not a good idea to habitually bounce off it. Over revving is much worse. It happens when you e.g. go screaming into a corner, miss a gear by mistake going from say 5th to 3rd and force the engine to rev above the normal safe revving parameter (as set out by Porsche for any given engine). Not a good idea to habitually bounce off it, but nevertheless untraceable. Over revs are very common, but agree'd not ideal. If they've happened recently (last 50 hours) than if I was a buyer and not a seller I'd be asking for a compression test and would really want a porsche warranty (unless I could get the car for £50k!). Over rev 600 hours ago....... Please tell me you see the point I'm trying to make with this post - if the engine was going to go 'pop', it would have within 20/30 hours of the over rev. 600 hours on, and a compression test later, the car drives as if it only has 23,000 miles on the clock, which is exactly what it has on the clock.

PorscheGT4 said: only things which go wrong are not covered , engine is strong as an ox every thing else fails but most of it is classed as consumables My old 997 C2S had the baffle go on the sports exhaust - luckily, under warranty. £2000.

As food for thought ; How much would you expect the difference to be between a perfect example car and a car [like yours] showing a RR4 on the engine ? Lets just say it's £10k difference : How much would an OPC charge to rebuild the engine and clear the issue completely ? If there's an alpha difference, then surely this is the answer. Not only that, but a car with a recent Porsche Warranted rebuild is likely to fetch a better figure, no ? The car you have has grown in value massively over the last 18months or so, and as such, is attracting a broader spectrum of buyers as the higher values have put them into the radar of the speculator market as well as the geeky enthusiasts that have typically coveted GT3's and are likely to be more aware of RR issues Unfortunately, the RR issue has reduced in profile (on PH, certainly) recently, but threads like this only serve to perpetuate the problem How many manual sports cars over the years have been massively over revved, but it's gone unrecorded, and hence people buy unaware and unbothered by a history that might not cause any problems whatsoever down the line.

graeme4130 said: As food for thought ; How much would you expect the difference to be between a perfect example car and a car [like yours] showing a RR4 on the engine ? Lets just say it's £10k difference : How much would an OPC charge to rebuild the engine and clear the issue completely ? If there's an alpha difference, then surely this is the answer. Not only that, but a car with a recent Porsche Warranted rebuild is likely to fetch a better figure, no ? The car you have has grown in value massively over the last 18months or so, and as such, is attracting a broader spectrum of buyers as the higher values have put them into the radar of the speculator market as well as the geeky enthusiasts that have typically coveted GT3's and are likely to be more aware of RR issues Unfortunately, the RR issue has reduced in profile (on PH, certainly) recently, but threads like this only serve to perpetuate the problem How many manual sports cars over the years have been massively over revved, but it's gone unrecorded, and hence people buy unaware and unbothered by a history that might not cause any problems whatsoever down the line. From what I've learnt this week, I don't think that the difference in value between a 'holy grail' and mine is quite as much as £10k. The market is strong enough to absorb the whole over rev thing - my post only goes to highlight how many genuine enthusiasts actually listen to the advice of the main dealers and independents (who inevitably are ex-Porsche technicians) - car's that have been over revved a significant period of time ago aren't deemed as an issue. One of the guys at Solihull Porsche suggested that the issue is something that Porsche themselves highlighted following an individual case where an engine (warranted car) was over revved and then blew up - but hey, there are many marques out there that have been thrashed and then subsequently blown up, not just GT3's.

BigO1977 said: Really nice colour - I like. Why don't you get a warranty on it? If you don't mind me asking. IMO, It's not worth the money. I would rather put the cash aside and/or spend the cash on other things. Having said that though, the warranty it had when I bought it covered a new condenser for the air conditioning system (£unknown) and a new amplifier for the stereo (£700) and this was when the car was running the following: Michelin Super Sport tyres RSS Engine mounts Hayward and Scott bypass exhaust Techart front shock top mounts 997.2 RS rear brake cooling ducts BMC Air filter So in my experience, the warranty is not as 'restrictive' as some claim it to be and you can get warranty work done if you have made modifications. As a side note, I think the next steps for me with this car are the following: exe-tc single way suspension 997 GT3 rally car LSD RSS coffin arms and dog links and when funds allow.... 3.9l engine conversion

V8KSN said: IMO, It's not worth the money. I would rather put the cash aside and/or spend the cash on other things. Having said that though, the warranty it had when I bought it covered a new condenser for the air conditioning system (£unknown) and a new amplifier for the stereo (£700) and this was when the car was running the following: Michelin Super Sport tyres RSS Engine mounts Hayward and Scott bypass exhaust Techart front shock top mounts 997.2 RS rear brake cooling ducts BMC Air filter So in my experience, the warranty is not as 'restrictive' as some claim it to be and you can get warranty work done if you have made modifications. As a side note, I think the next steps for me with this car are the following: exe-tc single way suspension 997 GT3 rally car LSD RSS coffin arms and dog links and when funds allow.... 3.9l engine conversion Rally car LSD..... What's that all about then?

Here is is BTW.

BigO1977 said: What difference does it make how much I bought the car for 15 months ago? I bought it from a main dealer as a warranted, low mileage, rare coloured, club sport spec - I can tell you now that they weren't offering much in the way of discount! They did throw in a replacement front splitter and quite a few cups of coffee. They want to buy it back - doesn't that speak volumes, or am I being completely naive? I've bought a lot of sports cars from main dealers and independents - I can honestly say that Porsche have been by far and away the best of the bunch. When the warranty expires, you just pay to have another one put on it - isn't that the way everyone does it? I can't comment on how the car will be driven by the next owner, so if they over rev it then they need to heed the consequences - Porsche are unlikely to warrant a car that's been over revved in the last 100 hours - that's what the technician said to me this morning. OP if you read the question properly its asking IF you bought the car for a discount relative to others at the time and there was no mention of asking what you paid for it! YOu didn't offer that information in the original post so in order to understand a little more of the history and give you a realistic price comparison its not unrealistic to ask. Sounds like the car is a goodun anyhow as the OPC will buy it back and it has a current warranty. Wonder if they will give you more than you paid for it though? Others as you have highlighted have risen considerably in the last 15 months

Soov535 said: RR1 = ignitions at the limiter BigO1977 said: Pete - I've been told by a very well respected independent - 'you could drive the GT3 round the track all day bouncing off the rev limited and it won't register any over revs'. However, if the driver changes from 5th to 2nd, it'll probably register an over rev. And that is what confuses me, does anyone no for certain? I bought my car from JZM and it had 18 ignitions in RR1 and none in 2-5, so all ok in my opinion. in my ownership i have bounced it of the limiter when overtaking maybe two or three times, just curious as whether i've racked up more RR1's or not. i'll probably get them to do me a DME report when i have it serviced next, the results should be interesting as i have definitely not pissed up a downshift.

pete a said: And that is what confuses me, does anyone no for certain? I bought my car from JZM and it had 18 ignitions in RR1 and none in 2-5, so all ok in my opinion. in my ownership i have bounced it of the limiter when overtaking maybe two or three times, just curious as whether i've racked up more RR1's or not. i'll probably get them to do me a DME report when i have it serviced next, the results should be interesting as i have definitely not pissed up a downshift. Pete you buy the red gen 1 from jzm? think I remember it

Taken from the aforementioned article.

Looks lovely, kind of 996-retro too to my eyes. I can't believe anyone's suggesting the value should be lower.... 1) IT WAS UNDER 1/10th (ONE TENTH) OF A SECOND 2) THERE ARE 6 RANGES - IT ONLY GOT TO NUMBER 4 3) IT WAS 600 (SIX HUNDRED) HOURS AGO 4) IT WAS UNDER 1/10TH OF A SECOND 5) PORSCHE SOLD IT LIKE THAT, CLEAN BILL OF HEALTH 6) IT WAS UNDER 1/10TH OF A SECOND I'd venture to suggest that cars with no rev ranges whatsoever (i.e. even range 1, at/everso slightly over the limiter) are more of a risk as they show no evidence of having been exercised properly - would you want to take the risk on an engine that may never have been above 5,000 rpm?

RR1 in a 997 GT3 is classed as 9000-9200 I think. I read a while ago hitting the limiter does cause it to register an RR1. Its why some cars can have quite a few RR1's and then nothing from RR2-6. A bit of spirited driving as opposed to doing a bad mis shift. Porsche don't care about RR1 or RR2 a while ago even 3 was passed easily but now some ask for a compression test.

Scooty100 said: OP if you read the question properly its asking IF you bought the car for a discount relative to others at the time and there was no mention of asking what you paid for it! YOu didn't offer that information in the original post so in order to understand a little more of the history and give you a realistic price comparison its not unrealistic to ask. Sounds like the car is a goodun anyhow as the OPC will buy it back and it has a current warranty. Wonder if they will give you more than you paid for it though? Others as you have highlighted have risen considerably in the last 15 months They've offered a lot more than I paid for it. Part of me wants to sell it to them so they pay more for a car they previously sold, the other part of me just wants as much as I can get. Obviously. Let's just say - I wish I'd bought all of the GT3's on sale at the time (they were all similar money). I'd be sitting on a nice little car lot.... over revs or not!

Scooty100 said: Pete you buy the red gen 1 from jzm? think I remember it Sure did, there are not many red 997.1's about so i jumped on it pretty quick when they got it. Strangely as much as i love the car i have some insane urge to get an RS, would love Green but they are not about, so maybe orange???? its an addiction of sorts i'm sure.

GoatRider said: Taken from the aforementioned article. I get that chart but the rev limit on a 997 GT3 is 8400, RR1 on that chart is some way over that????

berty37 said: RR1 in a 997 GT3 is classed as 9000-9200 I think. I read a while ago hitting the limiter does cause it to register an RR1. Its why some cars can have quite a few RR1's and then nothing from RR2-6. A bit of spirited driving as opposed to doing a bad mis shift. Porsche don't care about RR1 or RR2 a while ago even 3 was passed easily but now some ask for a compression test. Apparently, the Turbo's are very susceptible to over rev in R1 due to the speed catching owners out. We've all suffered a miss shift at one time or another - I remember having real problems with a Maserati 222 with a dog leg box a few years back.... which doesn't suggest that the car has been thrashed, just a little user error. The fact is that the Germans work to pretty significant tolerances on their engines - the GT3, as mentioned in an earlier response, has a bullet proof engine and gearbox. Just look at what they're built for..

thegoose said: I'd venture to suggest that cars with no rev ranges whatsoever (i.e. even range 1, at/everso slightly over the limiter) are more of a risk as they show no evidence of having been exercised properly - would you want to take the risk on an engine that may never have been above 5,000 rpm? I'd venture to suggest that cars with no rev ranges whatsoever (i.e. even range 1, at/everso slightly over the limiter) have been driven sympathetically by people who don't miss shifts! Mine gets spanked!

pete a said: Sure did, there are not many red 997.1's about so i jumped on it pretty quick when they got it. Strangely as much as i love the car i have some insane urge to get an RS, would love Green but they are not about, so maybe orange???? its an addiction of sorts i'm sure. A very healthy addiction.

pete a said: Sure did, there are not many red 997.1's about so i jumped on it pretty quick when they got it. Strangely as much as i love the car i have some insane urge to get an RS, would love Green but they are not about, so maybe orange???? its an addiction of sorts i'm sure. There u go remember it well and yes Red is v rare. As most on here say there is too little difference in the gen 1 RS over the regular car. Ive been down this road pete

V8KSN said: I'd venture to suggest that cars with no rev ranges whatsoever (i.e. even range 1, at/everso slightly over the limiter) have been driven sympathetically by people who don't miss shifts! Mine gets spanked! But spanked doesn't mean you miss shifts and over rev..... surely?

Obviously makes fekk all difference. And unless there is another car that is identical in all areas it won't affect your price. And you could probably get the counter reset to whatever value you wish, at least on the 996 I know of tuners who have cracked it.

BigO1977 said: But spanked doesn't mean you miss shifts and over rev..... surely? By spanked I mean driven as it SHOULD be driven, change up at the right time and change down without causing an over rev.

pete a said: Sure did, there are not many red 997.1's about so i jumped on it pretty quick when they got it. Strangely as much as i love the car i have some insane urge to get an RS, would love Green but they are not about, so maybe orange???? its an addiction of sorts i'm sure. There are some green ones still around

pete a said: And that is what confuses me, does anyone no for certain? I bought my car from JZM and it had 18 ignitions in RR1 and none in 2-5, so all ok in my opinion. in my ownership i have bounced it of the limiter when overtaking maybe two or three times, just curious as whether i've racked up more RR1's or not. i'll probably get them to do me a DME report when i have it serviced next, the results should be interesting as i have definitely not pissed up a downshift. Bouncing off the rev limited is fine - you won't see any difference from the original RR1 over revs.

Too much hysteria relating to rev range incidents in Mezger engines. It is a racing unit that will take 12000 rpm buzzes and hold together. I buzed a 996 Cup to nearly 12k when i missed a downshift at Castle coombe. We fitted a new clutch after quali and it ran for the races - which it won - and for another 50 hours until the end of the season. All the internals were checked during the refresh and were absolutely fine with no sign of any wear or damage. These engine get abused all of the time in racing environments and regularly record 11-12000RPM on thier motec loggers. I dont know of any engine that failed as a result or - more tellingly - of any team that thought it appropriate to consider an immediate rebuild/refresh. They are a £40k unit to replace so if there was a hint of the need for a rebuilt, it would get done and they take a huge ammount more abuse in a racing environment compared to the road Your car will be absolutely fine with the miniscule number of ingitions in the rev range incident. If there would have been any damage (which there wouldnt), it would have happened within a few hours of the incident. I spent a long time looking for a good 997.1 Clubbie and would not have been put off in the slightest by the rev ranges that your car has recorded. The engine has been developed to withstand that and a whole lot more.

Alpinestars said: There are some green ones still around That's gorgeous! Are they RS98 wheels?

BigO1977 said: Apparently, the Turbo's are very susceptible to over rev in R1 due to the speed catching owners out. We've all suffered a miss shift at one time or another - I remember having real problems with a Maserati 222 with a dog leg box a few years back.... which doesn't suggest that the car has been thrashed, just a little user error. The fact is that the Germans work to pretty significant tolerances on their engines - the GT3, as mentioned in an earlier response, has a bullet proof engine and gearbox. Just look at what they're built for.. The Mezger engine in the Turbo traces its routes back to the old GT1 block I think and that is one of the most bullet proof engines Porsche has ever made along with its NA counterpart in the GT3. The rev ranges on the Turbo are set less and to be honest it makes sense..after the Turbo has spooled up pretty daft to continue to push it further.

Steve Rance said: Too much hysteria relating to rev range incidents in Mezger engines. It is a racing unit that will take 12000 rpm buzzes and hold together. I buzed a 996 Cup to nearly 12k when i missed a downshift at Castle coombe. We fitted a new clutch after quali and it ran for the races - which it won - and for another 50 hours until the end of the season. All the internals were checked during the refresh and were absolutely fine with no sign of any wear or damage. These engine get abused all of the time in racing environments and regularly record 11-12000RPM on thier motec loggers. I dont know of any engine that failed as a result or - more tellingly - of any team that thought it appropriate to consider an immediate rebuild/refresh. They are a £40k unit to replace so if there was a hint of the need for a rebuilt, it would get done and they take a huge ammount more abuse in a racing environment compared to the road Your car will be absolutely fine with the miniscule number of ingitions in the rev range incident. If there would have been any damage (which there wouldnt), it would have happened within a few hours of the incident. I spent a long time looking for a good 997.1 Clubbie and would not have been put off in the slightest by the rev ranges that your car has recorded. The engine has been developed to withstand that and a whole lot more. Appreciate your comments - Castle Coombe is my old stomping ground when I lived in Bristol. Great track - takes no prisoners.

Yes. A chap and his testicles become somewhat closer at that circuit

OP - Why you selling anyway? Very nice car!

Alpinestars said: There are some green ones still around Arrrrggggghhhhhh You dont want a red one and a pile of cash do you? Thats so nice. Edited by pete a on Wednesday 4th March 20:55

m33ufo said: Unfortunately for me (at the time), I was categorically advised that you couldn't get into either of the two rev ranges on a 996 by just accelerating into the limiter. Whilst I was getting used to my 997 GT2 I hit the limiter in 2nd gear a few times, this added a few hundred RR1 ignitions - I was surprised by that as I thought it would only add 10 or 20. I've since worked out a technique to shift without doing this and the RRs have stayed the same for the last few years (apart from when Porsche had the car!) I think it's a different thing with GT3s as the RR1 hits are only logged a few hundred RPM over limiter - so GT3 over-revs generally mean proper over-revs I guess, rather than rev limiter bouncing.

ArcticGT said: M33ufo your "guru" is most definitely wrong, or you've interpreted what they've said wrongly. Re the 996. Unfortunately for me (at the time), I was categorically advised that you couldn't get into either of the two rev ranges on a 996 by just accelerating into the limiter. Back to the OP's car. Porsche will only renew warrantly on a 997 (without further investigation), if there are no hits beyond range 2. My problem with that car would be having to jump through costly hoops at every warranty renewal. And come resale, having to endure the same questioning over RR hits and likely offer a price reduction to compensate. Edited by m33ufo on Thursday 5th March 15:25

m33ufo said: Re the 996. Unfortunately for me (at the time), I was categorically advised that you couldn't get into either of the two rev ranges on a 996 by just accelerating into the limiter. Sorry, but you were told wrong (as another poster has already pointed out). My 996 (Carrera) has no range 2's, on a down-shift I've never got the wrong gear nor changed down too early (which is how RR2's occur), and last time I read the ECU data it did show a recent RR1, which was commensurate with me having recently hit the limiter before up-shifting.

996GT2 said: Whilst I was getting used to my 997 GT2 I hit the limiter in 2nd gear a few times, this added a few hundred RR1 ignitions - I was surprised by that as I thought it would only add 10 or 20. As per the example that started this thread, 40 ignitions is under 1/10th second so a few hundred sounds about right based on what you've written.

m33ufo said: Re the 996. Unfortunately for me (at the time), I was categorically advised that you couldn't get into either of the two rev ranges on a 996 by just accelerating into the limiter. Back to the OP's car. Porsche will only renew warrantly on a 997 (without further investigation), if there are no hits beyond range 2. My problem with that car would be having to jump through costly hoops at every warranty renewal. And come resale, having to endure the same questioning over RR hits and likely offer a price reduction to compensate. Edited by m33ufo on Thursday 5th March 15:25 Incorrect I'm afraid - I spoke to the Main dealer yesterday about renewal of the warranty - they wouldn't need to investigate any more than on any other vehicle. No hoops to jump through at renewal time. The car was over revved over 600 hours ago - that's nearly 20,000 miles ago. The technician said that they don't even second glance a car that has over revs over 500 hours ago. However, within 0-100 hours is a different matter..... 4+ RR and they'll compression test the engine before Germany sanctions the warranty - a hoop, yes, but hardly a long and painstaking process. This is what Porsche said yesterday, so I'd favour their advice over anyone else - they're the ones that warrant the cars at the end of the day....... Not Dave down the road that used to have a Covin 911 replica with a fiesta engine. If we can't trust what the main dealer says, there's no hope for anyone buying a second hand GT3.

The advice is clearly different at different OPCs then as my car was compression tested with RR3 events from 600 hours ago - as I mentioned above they sold me the car with these already on it 2 years earlier. They told me that it didn't matter how long ago it was if it had a RR3+ logged it would need a compression test before a warranty would be applied. I don't think there's clear guidance from Porsche on this as different OPCs treat it differently, it's all just a load of horses t they use as and when to book more hours in the workshop.

996GT2 said: The advice is clearly different at different OPCs then as my car was compression tested with RR3 events from 600 hours ago - as I mentioned above they sold me the car with these already on it 2 years earlier. They told me that it didn't matter how long ago it was if it had a RR3+ logged it would need a compression test before a warranty would be applied. I don't think there's clear guidance from Porsche on this as different OPCs treat it differently, it's all just a load of horses t they use as and when to book more hours in the workshop. I can only comment on my local Porsche garage in Sollihul TBH - and I know they need to take their pound of flesh from every transaction! I tried to leverage a preferential order on the new RS - unfortunately, they've been taking orders for 5 years and they have 20 orders for every 3 cars that will be made available to the dealers. It seems you can't even buy your way in these days! Maybe my transition to the i8 couldn't come at a better time!

BigO1977 said: ro51ter said: Be shocked if any op offered you anymore than 55 to 60k for that car. Great how people try and talk up values! The Gt3 world is now full of greed and not about car enjoyment. Market strength and value has nothing to do with greed - if you were selling a GT3, you'd want the best money you could possibly achieve. To confirm, I've enjoyed every second of ownership and every mile of driving in the GT3 - it's an awesome car and not many others run it close - I'm also going to enjoy spending the significant amount of money I've made through 15 months of ownership. £55 - £60 k - that's less than I bought it for. You're completely out of touch with the market. Edited by BigO1977 on Thursday 5th March 06:09 I'm aware of the both the current and previous Porsche GT market. I'm also realistic in what an opc would need to make out of a car like this one to stay in business. We can all try and drive our car prices up, didn't this happen in the late 80s early 90s

ro51ter said: I'm aware of the both the current and previous Porsche GT market. I'm also realistic in what an opc would need to make out of a car like this one to stay in business. We can all try and drive our car prices up, didn't this happen in the late 80s early 90s I think it's happened much more recently than that with the old 'last of the air cooled' promotion. Look at 993's and much more recently 964 prices, not to mention the RS and homolgation specials. The older classic 911's are increasing in value exponentially. The 911 world has gone crazy - the 991 GT3 is attracting a £40k + premium even though it's supposedly lost the 997 GT3's 'feel'. All a load of b******s if you ask me - they're all great machines in their own different way. I can't even begin to imagine what the RS is going to be advertised for when the first deliveries come through this year. Out of my price range i'd imagine! I'll end up wishing I hadn't sold my GT3. What can we do........ Find another marque? Not likely.

If someone offers you over 75k rip there arm off! Then wait two years until it all comes crashing down due to greed! Failing that if you have true passion for a Porsche gt brand just keep driving it and enjoying it These cars are made to be enjoyed, not bought as a possible quick money maker...... You are a long time dead!

BigO1977 said: ro51ter said: I'm aware of the both the current and previous Porsche GT market. I'm also realistic in what an opc would need to make out of a car like this one to stay in business. We can all try and drive our car prices up, didn't this happen in the late 80s early 90s I think it's happened much more recently than that with the old 'last of the air cooled' promotion. Look at 993's and much more recently 964 prices, not to mention the RS and homolgation specials. The older classic 911's are increasing in value exponentially. The 911 world has gone crazy - the 991 GT3 is attracting a £40k + premium even though it's supposedly lost the 997 GT3's 'feel'. All a load of b******s if you ask me - they're all great machines in their own different way. I can't even begin to imagine what the RS is going to be advertised for when the first deliveries come through this year. Out of my price range i'd imagine! I'll end up wishing I hadn't sold my GT3. What can we do........ Find another marque? Not likely. You know what thinking about it if prices are up at £80-85k in your shoes I'd hold on to your car. There can't be many good crash free original panel cars out there. The RR 1-4 is irrelevant IMO. I think the GT3 may even follow in the footsteps of the 964 RS if it isn't already. Also nice to look under both a GT3 and a 964 RS and see virtually identical crankcases....

BigO1977 said: m33ufo said: Re the 996. Unfortunately for me (at the time), I was categorically advised that you couldn't get into either of the two rev ranges on a 996 by just accelerating into the limiter. Back to the OP's car. Porsche will only renew warrantly on a 997 (without further investigation), if there are no hits beyond range 2. My problem with that car would be having to jump through costly hoops at every warranty renewal. And come resale, having to endure the same questioning over RR hits and likely offer a price reduction to compensate. Edited by m33ufo on Thursday 5th March 15:25 Incorrect I'm afraid - I spoke to the Main dealer yesterday about renewal of the warranty - they wouldn't need to investigate any more than on any other vehicle. No hoops to jump through at renewal time. The car was over revved over 600 hours ago - that's nearly 20,000 miles ago. The technician said that they don't even second glance a car that has over revs over 500 hours ago. However, within 0-100 hours is a different matter..... 4+ RR and they'll compression test the engine before Germany sanctions the warranty - a hoop, yes, but hardly a long and painstaking process. This is what Porsche said yesterday, so I'd favour their advice over anyone else - they're the ones that warrant the cars at the end of the day....... Not Dave down the road that used to have a Covin 911 replica with a fiesta engine. If we can't trust what the main dealer says, there's no hope for anyone buying a second hand GT3. Unfortunately, it doesn't even matter what your OPC says. It's all down to Porsche themselves and in my experience they'll be asking for further investigation prior to renewal of warranty. Ultimately, it's all hassle, and we could all do without that.

IMIA said: You know what thinking about it if prices are up at £80-85k in your shoes I'd hold on to your car. There can't be many good crash free original panel cars out there. The RR 1-4 is irrelevant IMO. I think the GT3 may even follow in the footsteps of the 964 RS if it isn't already. Also nice to look under both a GT3 and a 964 RS and see virtually identical crankcases.... If I had the room, this thread wouldn't even exist. I bought the car to keep and enjoy - I've enjoyed and have no room to keep. I suppose due to my expensive hobby, I've neglected to invest in a 3 car garage. I've only got a single garage and it's full of crap.

Steve Rance said: Too much hysteria relating to rev range incidents in Mezger engines. It is a racing unit that will take 12000 rpm buzzes and hold together. I buzed a 996 Cup to nearly 12k when i missed a downshift at Castle coombe. We fitted a new clutch after quali and it ran for the races - which it won - and for another 50 hours until the end of the season. All the internals were checked during the refresh and were absolutely fine with no sign of any wear or damage. These engine get abused all of the time in racing environments and regularly record 11-12000RPM on thier motec loggers. I dont know of any engine that failed as a result or - more tellingly - of any team that thought it appropriate to consider an immediate rebuild/refresh. They are a £40k unit to replace so if there was a hint of the need for a rebuilt, it would get done and they take a huge ammount more abuse in a racing environment compared to the road Steve, Be wary drawing comparisons in that way. The street engines are not the race engines when it comes to high rpms. The extra stuff that's added and/or changed on to the street engines reduces the headroom and very much forms weak points. Motorsport reckon anything over 10k rpm should be opened and looked over to make sure but the reality is that they tend to be robust; and the clutch pressure plates break first saving the engine in practice (on the 996 anyways). The rivets pop on the restraining straps. The variocam stuff very specifically alters the landscape with the street units (though is not the only factor or component change). These parts cannot take the over-revs in the way the race units can. Sadly there is not the data from street units to properly quantify precisely where limits are, and the variocam in particular responds in a complex way to dynamic events. Since not all over-revs are created equal its very difficult to set guidelines on what's ok and what's not. I suspect this is some of the reason for the rev limit quagmire in the first place; and the shifting sand responses from Porsche over the years when it comes to the road cars is a response to a situation in which they know there's potential for problems but its impossible to neatly quantify it. Don't get me wrong. I hate the over-rev situation and how messy it is. It's also disappointing that every mention of it turns into a blockbuster thread when stuff about cars withers quickly.

fioran0 said: Steve, Be wary drawing comparisons in that way. The street engines are not the race engines when it comes to high rpms. The extra stuff that's added and/or changed on to the street engines reduces the headroom and very much forms weak points. Motorsport reckon anything over 10k rpm should be opened and looked over to make sure but the reality is that they tend to be robust; and the clutch pressure plates break first saving the engine in practice (on the 996 anyways). The rivets pop on the restraining straps. The variocam stuff very specifically alters the landscape with the street units (though is not the only factor or component change). These parts cannot take the over-revs in the way the race units can. Sadly there is not the data from street units to properly quantify precisely where limits are, and the variocam in particular responds in a complex way to dynamic events. Since not all over-revs are created equal its very difficult to set guidelines on what's ok and what's not. I suspect this is some of the reason for the rev limit quagmire in the first place; and the shifting sand responses from Porsche over the years when it comes to the road cars is a response to a situation in which they know there's potential for problems but its impossible to neatly quantify it. Don't get me wrong. I hate the over-rev situation and how messy it is. It's also disappointing that every mention of it turns into a blockbuster thread when stuff about cars withers quickly. The point of the thread was not to discuss the generic GT3 over rev situation but to specifically question why an engine with an over Rev in range 4 over 600 hours ago (approx 20,000 miles), that has received a compression test and been given a clean bill of health, by way of a main dealer warranty, would be considered a 'risk'? OR is this just another lamination of a subject that will continue to do the rounds on the forums until something more interesting comes along....... Like how the new RS has lost some of the 'poise and precision' of past RS's and should be avoided at all cost (approx £50k over list)

Did that ship not sail around page 1? Better swim faster if you wanna catch it. My post was replying to Steve's. How one views that in the wider discussion is up to individuals I guess.

fioran0 said: Did that ship not sail around page 1? Better swim faster if you wanna catch it. My post was replying to Steve's. How one views that in the wider discussion is up to individuals I guess. Best get my flippers on then.

I think this constant increasing in prices doesn't help anyone-those with these cars or dealers.

My 997.1 RS had about 100-200 ignitions in Stage 1 (at 100 hours) and about 27 in Stage 2 (at 50 hours). Came with Porsche Approved, so didn't hesitate for a second. I did some research at the time and found the following interesting (especially that stage 1 is logged as from 8400 RPM): Up until 3 Porsche will maintain warranty and allow to extend it - as from 4 only after a thorough check-up. One doesn't need a moneyshift to log Stage 1's. It happens in hurried upshifts. As one transitions between WOT and clutch down, letting out the clutch too early will "unload" the engine and allow it to spin ever-so-slightly above the rev limiter. Nothing serious as we all know, but that's how the occasional Range 1 shows up even for cars properly driven. It is very possible to cause a range 1-3 over-rev situation without ever having done anything wrong. When you run WOT (wide open throttle) up to the rev limiter and the ECU cuts you off, then you dump the clutch to pick the next gear, there's so much intertia within the engine that the revs continue to climb. That's why you'll see just about every used Porsche that people are looking at come back with Range 1-3 over-revs, but often for very short periods. For example, you might see just 30 "ignitions" at Range 3, meaning just 10 Revolutions. That's not caused by somebody missing a shift because a 5-2 money shift is going to record much more. Rev ranges - 997 GT3: Create the VAL before deleting the fault memory. Overspeed events are documented as follows in the VAL: Rev range 1: 8,400 -1 ... to 9,200 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible. Rev range 2: 9,200 -1 ... to 9,400 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible. Rev range 3: 9,400 -1 ... to 9,600 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed exceeded; engine damage possible. Rev range 4: 9,600 -1 ... to 10,000 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed clearly exceeded; engine damage probable. Rev range 5: 10,000 -1 ... to 11,000 -1 ⇒ Maximum permitted engine speed very clearly exceeded; engine damage very probable. Rev range 6: over 11,000 -1 ⇒ Engine damage has generally occurred. Hope this helps.

The Wolf said: Up until 3 Porsche will maintain warranty and allow to extend it - as from 4 only after a thorough check-up. I'm guessing this info is quite old? You've needed further investigation for range 3 hits for a few years.

When buying mine from OPC I was stupid enough not to look at the RR report and took verbal statement that it was clear in all ranges. Once I came back down to earth from the euthoria of buying my dream car I started to chase my report from OPC Reading. It took a while but eventually got an email with part of a screen print showing all RR clear. Being the synic that I am I'm thinking it could have been from any car, how easy is it to get the report and what does it look like? Should I maybe go to an indy and get a report from them? On another matter Steve Rance if you read this how did you get on with your diff and any update on your braking and suspension matters. Maybe an update on your thread?

Rev range 6 would take some doing!

ro51ter said: Rev range 6 would take some doing! Easy as pie. 5th to 2nd instead of 4th should do it?

When buying mine from OPC I was stupid enough not to look at the RR report and took verbal statement that it was clear in all ranges. Once I came back down to earth from the euthoria of buying my dream car I started to chase my report from OPC Reading. It took a while but eventually got an email with part of a screen print showing all RR clear. Being the synic that I am I'm thinking it could have been from any car, how easy is it to get the report and what does it look like? Should I maybe go to an indy and get a report from them? On another matter Steve Rance if you read this how did you get on with your diff and any update on your braking and suspension matters. Maybe an update on your thread?

5th to 2nd at some speed would definitely do it!

mollytherocker said: ro51ter said: Rev range 6 would take some doing! Easy as pie. 5th to 2nd instead of 4th should do it? It would, but it's not that easy of a mistake to make in pretty much any water cooled 911. People will do it, but it's not easy. The way I buzzed (to use the racing term) the engine in my first race car (911 SC) was by accelerating flat out in third and then hitting 2nd instead of 4th i.e. I mis-shifted on the up shift. I think doing so when you've just red-lined it is likely to be far more damaging than when on a downshift, when you're probably braking anyway (hence bringing the road speed closer to what's appropriate for the gear you've mistakenly selected).

m33ufo said: I'm guessing this info is quite old? You've needed further investigation for range 3 hits for a few years. Yes correct. Their attitude towards the over revs has changed a few times over the years.

The Wolf said: m33ufo said: I'm guessing this info is quite old? You've needed further investigation for range 3 hits for a few years. Yes correct. Their attitude towards the over revs has changed a few times over the years. Also which figures are correct the ones you posted or the table on page 2 of this thread? As per page 2 I believe a RR1 in a 997 starts at 9000rpm and not 8400rpm. This is the fundamental difference between a 996 and 997 when it comes to logging RR1s, the 997 doesn't log anything until you exceed the limited by 600rpm while the 996 logs RR1s as sone as you hit the limiter, which explains why cars like mine show no RRs recorded although it lives on track.

Rev range 6 would take some doing!

mollytherocker said: It certainly can be reset. But that cannot be hidden. Sure? I got advice conflicting to this (but I was asking about 996 specifically, mind) Only if you can find earlier readouts will you you learn the truth, and I don't think you can go in to any OPC and they will magic up every read out, so you would have to do a fair bit of detective work. Certainly I wouldn't just look at the latest readout and think "Great! no over revs!", but you would want to see periodic readouts over the cars life. If you care more of number on a piece of paper over what you can actually see in front of you that is....

fredt said: mollytherocker said: It certainly can be reset. But that cannot be hidden. Sure? I got advice conflicting to this (but I was asking about 996 specifically, mind) Only if you can find earlier readouts will you you learn the truth, and I don't think you can go in to any OPC and they will magic up every read out, so you would have to do a fair bit of detective work. Certainly I wouldn't just look at the latest readout and think "Great! no over revs!", but you would want to see periodic readouts over the cars life. If you care more of number on a piece of paper over what you can actually see in front of you that is.... Pretty sure MTR is right there Fred. Its the same as people who try to chip or flash the car's ECU and then return it to factory settings before the OPC see it. Ken at 9e told me that when you tamper with things like this it creates a count on the car's brain that cannot be erased.

fioran0 said: Steve, Be wary drawing comparisons in that way. The street engines are not the race engines when it comes to high rpms. The extra stuff that's added and/or changed on to the street engines reduces the headroom and very much forms weak points. Motorsport reckon anything over 10k rpm should be opened and looked over to make sure but the reality is that they tend to be robust; and the clutch pressure plates break first saving the engine in practice (on the 996 anyways). The rivets pop on the restraining straps. The variocam stuff very specifically alters the landscape with the street units (though is not the only factor or component change). These parts cannot take the over-revs in the way the race units can. Sadly there is not the data from street units to properly quantify precisely where limits are, and the variocam in particular responds in a complex way to dynamic events. Since not all over-revs are created equal its very difficult to set guidelines on what's ok and what's not. I suspect this is some of the reason for the rev limit quagmire in the first place; and the shifting sand responses from Porsche over the years when it comes to the road cars is a response to a situation in which they know there's potential for problems but its impossible to neatly quantify it. Don't get me wrong. I hate the over-rev situation and how messy it is. It's also disappointing that every mention of it turns into a blockbuster thread when stuff about cars withers quickly. Interesting stuff. I wasn't aware the difference between the two was quite so great. Appreciating a sample size of one is statistically worthless, my road-engined car raced for 2.5 seasons (and for many years before that in sprints) before requiring a rebuild. In retrospect, it should probably have been opened up at the end of each season, but time will tell. I will update this thread in 5 years time to let you know how it's doing...

berty37 said: Pretty sure MTR is right there Fred. Its the same as people who try to chip or flash the car's ECU and then return it to factory settings before the OPC see it. Ken at 9e told me that when you tamper with things like this it creates a count on the car's brain that cannot be erased. I was told by a tuner that he could make rr's go away on my car (996 GT2), invisibly. Makes sense to me as its just a chip with noughts and ones on them, and if you access the right areas of the coding I don't understand why you couldn't put whatever values you wanted? (I have no idea how these things work ) If a cars rr's have been tampered with, would this be immediately obvious on a read out?

I don't know for definite fred only what this chap at 9e told me and maybe the 996 is different but they have tuned tons of cars. I would say knowing Porsche, it isn't as simple as just erasing over revs by decoding I would hazard a guess at you try to do that it leaves a digital hand print somewhere else. People must chip and flash the car's ECU and think when the car goes in for service or potential warranty work they can just switch it back and its all done. I would doubt that personally.

Cunno said: Also which figures are correct the ones you posted or the table on page 2 of this thread? As per page 2 I believe a RR1 in a 997 starts at 9000rpm and not 8400rpm. This is the fundamental difference between a 996 and 997 when it comes to logging RR1s, the 997 doesn't log anything until you exceed the limited by 600rpm while the 996 logs RR1s as sone as you hit the limiter, which explains why cars like mine show no RRs recorded although it lives on track. The info I got comes from 2 independent sources, though I still won't vouch for it. I'd say it is somewhat contradictory that a stage 1 occurs often whilst I find 600rpm above already a quite serious overrev?

Hitting the limiter is not a problem and that is why it is not logged on a 997 GT3. Clearly Porsche thought an over rev was worthy of note!

This is how the Yanks deal with RRs You lot need to hold your heads in shame;) http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/86289...

Cunno said: This is how the Yanks deal with RRs You lot need to hold your heads in shame;) http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/86289... 3 Clutches

Impressive rodgering of an engine. Those are skid marks that will never wash out. I must confess to the walk of shame back to the pits after blowing the odd 996 cup clutch ( gearbox Rodgering ) but my hat goes off to anyone feckless enough to blow 3 chaps on a road car. See me after class Stupid Boy.

That's some doing on the clutches. My grandma only managed 2 in 10k miles and she used to use about 6,000 rpm before finding the bite point. Regarding the over Rev I assume these are from engine breaking ie slowing down or missing gears. An dynamics engineer once told me that over reving going down the box does not put as much load on the engine as pushing it hard near to the red line under load in say 3 rs gear. These engines and cars are designed for hard work from time to time hence why we buy them. Look on YouTube on engine testing some are ram for hours well above the Rev range we could achieve for a few seconds. If it sounds right offers the correct pressures and tenperatures it would not stop me buying a car that was revved hard 4 years prior.

You'd have to be a true Neanderthal to blow three clutches in 10,000 miles. We estimated around 100 full blown standing starts on the same clutch and it only got replaced because everything was taken apart for a routine check.

7.2 RS though. To be fair to our heavy footed, rev limit is more of a guide, American cousin the original clutch used in the 3.8 before the "recall that was never a recall" wasn't exactly up to the job when given repeated beans. Maybe this was the issue