Cayman R numbers and spec breakdown - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

I think this was posted in the owners/buyers/mods thread but I can't find it. Someone posted a breakdown of the specs of each type of car. Interested to know how the PDK cars were generally specced.

Taken from the survey done on Planet9:- Ok, Data summary 9 / 19/15: Background: It is believed that there were 1421 total Cayman R's produced in the transition from the 987 to the 981. There is no 2013 Cayman model year. All Cayamn R's in North America were considered a 2012 model year. Cars for the rest of the world are sometimes designated (in advertising)as either model year 2011 or 2012. I believe Porsche considered all Cayman R's model year 2012. It is documented that there were 563 Cayman R's exported to the US market and 61 to the Canadian market. That leaves 797 cars for the rest of the world. It was believed that the production serial numbers ranged from 792065-793487, and we know that cars were produced and assembled in Finland as well as Germany. It is believed the early production cars were built in Finland under contract with Valmet Automotive and later cars were built at Porsches factory in Germany. You can identify the location of your cars build by the letters proceeding the last 6 digits of the Vin number. CS stands for Cayman's built in Germany and CU are Caymans built in Finland. As we know,the Cayman R came well equipped and is a car that is very comfortable on the track as well as the street. The Cayman R was available in 11 Standard/ metallic colors and in general 4 interior packages. It has been postulated that most cars were ordered by the dealers and consumers in the tradition popular Porsche colors. Guards Red, Carrera White, Black and Platinum Silver. All of Porsche's advertising used a new special color formulated for the R called Peridot Metallic. This was a non-tradition color and it was estimated that only 10% of the cars produced were in this color. Of course special order cars were always welcome. Among other things, it came standard with a 6 speed manual transmission, and either sport leather seats or carbon fiber (GT3)race seats. When i was doing my research on the Cayman R it was clear that the details around it's production cycle was spotty at best. Yet this is truly a limited production very special car. It had been 40 years since that last time Porsche Management had approved the R designation for a model, and clearly the first time it was ever assigned to a Cayman. So enough of history and what we thought we knew. Current data summary: I started this Registry to try to fine tune our basic knowledge of what the actual numbers for some key measurables might be. Mix of U vs S produced cars, manufacture date, manual vs PDK, sport leather seats vs Carbon fiber bucket seats, color, and current location of the cars. The response to the registry has been great. I first posted it on this site and since then the post has been linked to at least 4 other sites that address the world wide market. I was able to clean up some inconsistencies in the prior data report. Here is what i have found so far in the data from the first 132 cars registered. The last data update we had 94 cars. So great job in getting registered.... I have included only cars with complete data...except I have included cars that have all data except the actual build date as many folks didnt know or register that information. We have 19 people that have registered with cars from out side the US. We believe we have 2 of the 3 Cayman R's that are believed to have been delivered to New Zealand, one from South Africa, two from Germany, one from France, 11 from the UK, and one from Canada. All the rest are US cars. We have vin numbers ranging from 790085-793544 a range of 3459? It seems true that early cars(early Vin number and manufacturing dates) are manufactured in Finland...but not all! The earliest U (Finland) car is 790085 and the last U car registered is 793103. Interestingly enough we have 3 sets of cars, where one is manufactured in Finland and one in Germany with the same numerical Vin number. One having a CU prefix and the other an CS prefix? I am not sure yet how that plays out?We also have 2 sets of US cars that are different in color but have registered with the same Vin. number. These are probably typo's but are still unresolved. The range of manufacturing dates on the cars registered range from 2/11 to 3/12. Unfortunately, not everyone registered has entered the build date. The % of the cars registered by color are as follows; Peridot Metallic 32 cars 23.4%, Carrera White 30 cars 22.7%, Black 29 cars 21.9%, Platinum Silver 13 cars 9.8%, Aqua Blue Metallic 10 cars 7.5%, Guards Red 9 cars 6.8%, Meteor Gray Metallic 5 cars 3.7%, Speed Yellow 2 cars 1.5%, Vesuvio (special order) 1%, 1 car 1% in Ruby Red Metallic, The split between manual and PDK is , 57% manual and 43% PDK. Percent with sport carbon fiber seats is 40% the majority of the cars have leather sport seats. Only 15% have PDK and Carbon fiber seats, 25.7% have manual transmission and carbon fiber seats. It looks like the change over time frame for German only manufactured cars may be around 6/11. But, up until that date we have cars produced at both factories? It is still early and the data base is clearly biased by US cars, but I am hopeful that as we gather more data we will get a clearer picture of what occurred and how accepted the original estimates were. We are working off of some big assumptions, one of which is that all Cayman R's Vin numbers were unique and sequential. I am not sure that Cayman R serial numbers are unique. I looks like they may have fallen into the regular build sequence for the Cayman. You do see a series of serial numbers in sequence that are R builds so maybe the factory pooled R orders at times and that accounts for the pooling as well as the break and range in serial numbers. If we new exactly how many Caymans(all Models) were built in the time frame that the R's were built we could solve some of the mystery. I will continue summarize the date as we get more.

I think you will find that some 3500 cars were made for north America and over 1600 rest of world

That number sounds a bit high for the R? thanks ajondyh for the info

fridaypassion said: That number sounds a bit high for the R? Not really when you look at the proof chassis numbers in North america have exceeded 3500 and for ROW one car in the UK had a chassis number ending 1636 near end of build! Equates to in excess of 5000 total build! The UK received some 250 cars from the ROW allocation! The 987.2 spyder which had much a lower demand/build was circa 2000 cars!

The info above indicates the vin numbers might have been mixed in with the general Cayman production though? 5000 sounds a lot for a niche model like the R?

It was not a niche model it was a normal production model like the current 981 Gts. There was no limit in production numbers and the car was a big hit in the USA where most cars sold! If250 cars sold in the UK ,and then if the same for Germany France, Spain ,Italy and the rest of Europe then some circa 1250were most likely sold in Europe alone!

Try and buy one in a good spec

The info above indicates the vin numbers might have been mixed in with the general Cayman production though? 5000 sounds a lot for a niche model like the R?

ajondyh said: Try and buy one in a good spec That is true but it can also be said for the 987 spyder , a 997.2 Gts which over 500 came to the UK or even a manual 997.2S or non S The CR in manual form is at great car but a niche low volume model it is not!

250 in the UK would determine it is pretty low volume

Itsy is spot on. Cr was popular in the u.s Porsche built as many as could be sold. You will find that the spyder is a rarer car

itsybitsy said: It was not a niche model it was a normal production model like the current 981 Gts. There was no limit in production numbers and the car was a big hit in the USA where most cars sold! If250 cars sold in the UK ,and then if the same for Germany France, Spain ,Italy and the rest of Europe then some circa 1250were most likely sold in Europe alone! But all the rest are left hand drive!

gsewell said: But all the rest are left hand drive! Yes a right hand manual CR is a rare car but so is a manual 997.2 as most were Pdk! But don't forget the Far East is right hand drive and a big market !

HokumPokum said: You will find that the spyder is a rarer car That's where my money would be on as a future classic but not the CR as imo it's caymanS runoff special although a very good runout special unlike previous boxster/Cayman runout models.

Cayman R - 228 in UK. 115 PDK, 3 on SORN 106 manual, 4 on SORN Assuming reg. documentation is correct. 294 Cayman GTS 114 Boxster spyder manual 69 boxster spyder PDK with 11 on SORN 194

106 Man box CRs in the UK is not a lot even less with bucket seats no doubt Pretty rare I would say.

HokumPokum said: Itsy is spot on. Cr was popular in the u.s Porsche built as many as could be sold. You will find that the spyder is a rarer car Erm... Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a Spyder with the "tent" more of a USA type vehicle given the fact we only have 1 week of the year when it's sunny

Rs in the correct spec are rare I've been trying to buy one for a few months now. Hopefully resolved this week.

itsybitsy said: It was not a niche model it was a normal production model like the current 981 Gts. There was no limit in production numbers and the car was a big hit in the USA where most cars sold! If250 cars sold in the UK ,and then if the same for Germany France, Spain ,Italy and the rest of Europe then some circa 1250were most likely sold in Europe alone! As a matter of interest, where did you get your facts/figures from and where did you research your info? I'm not saying you're wrong but I know the researcher from Planet9 spent a lot of time and did a lot of research over a long period. You can't both be right

ajondyh said: As a matter of interest, where did you get your facts/figures from and where did you research your info? I'm not saying you're wrong but I know the researcher from Planet9 spent a lot of time and did a lot of research over a long period. You can't both be right 3 years ago I was off work for 3 months and spent a lot of time on the internet and the info on numbers produced above from planet9 is wrong ! 797 cars for ROW when 250 cars alone were built for the UK and most likely more for Germany which is a bigger market and then add in the other bigger European countries plus Asia,Australia and chassis numbers exceeding 1600 build split with different build numbers after the model code for manual and pdk equates to more than 797!so the numbers fall down! North America is a big market and the CR sold well so if we take planet9 chassis numbers range of 2000 to 3500 that is still 1500 cars for NA! so the Planet9 numbers don't add up Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 21:38 Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 21:47

itsybitsy said: 3 years ago I was off work for 3 months and spent a lot of time on the internet and the info on numbers produced above from planet9 is wrong ! 797 cars for ROW when 250 cars alone were built for the UK and most likely more for Germany which is a bigger market and then add in the other bigger European countries plus Asia,Australia and chassis numbers exceeding 1600 build split with different build numbers after the model code for manual and pdk equates to more than 797!so the numbers fall down! North America is a big market and the CR sold well so if we take planet9 chassis numbers range of 2000 to 3500 that is still 1500 cars for NA! so the Planet9 numbers don't add up Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 21:38 Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 21:47 Hmmm, not so sure. Unless you have better evidence of total sales in Europe and USA you're guessing, and your figures don't even add up for your quote "it was a normal production model like the current 981 Gts" as there have been over 370 Cayman GTS registered in uk already and they're still selling!! So way out there

remember the economy was slower in 2011 -2012 so sales were slower compared to 2015! the CR like the 987 spyder were normal production models! I am not going to waist hours looking again in to the different chassis numbers for different markets and different gearboxs but in 2012 there was enough cars for sale around the world on opc sites to build up a picture,also in march 2012 on planet9 owners were posting about receiving their cars and chassis numbers which were last to leave the factory! there is also much confirmation of less than 2000 spyders which sold in a lot less numbers!so to say less than 1500 CRs built is b~ll~cks! its fact that ROW numbers ranged from 0001 to 1600+ and NA from 0001 to 3500+ split between pdk and manual which have different numbers before build number and after the country code and model number! Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 22:27 Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 22:30

Cmoose your first press release is for 2012 very few Cayman/ boxster were built/ delivered as only CR Cayman built that year up to end of February 2012 and no 981 caymans as these started in 2013 and the 981 boxster had just been introduced! If you look at 2011 the 987 boxster was only built to June 2011 where it finished at Stuttgart and the boxster/ Cayman production finished in Finland in May 2011.Cayman production continued at Stuttgart from May 2011 until February 2012 when the majority of cars built were CR! I do concede that the production numbers for ROW and NA could be mixed but it's. A long time ago that I looked into it but that still equates to 3500 cars plus and not less than 1500.

itsybitsy said: there is also much confirmation of less than 2000 spyders which sold in a lot less numbers! Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 22:27 Edited by itsybitsy on Monday 28th December 22:30 "Much undocumented confirmation" Me thinks you're just trying to big up the Spyders' because you have one, and 'rubbish' everything else. All you are quoting is your own undocumented speculation with no back up other than "Maybe's and IMO's"

ajondyh said: "Much undocumented confirmation" Me thinks you're just trying to big up the Spyders' because you have one, and 'rubbish' everything else. All you are quoting is your own undocumented speculation with no back up other than "Maybe's and IMO's" Firstly I have no spyder so ino nterest in "big up the spyders " unlike yourself who has a CR! secondly a few years ago someone on rennlist wrote to Porsche for spyder numbers and got a reply of circa 1890 I cannot remember exact number and subsequently further posts have been of less than 2000 cars on other forums which is backed up by the chassis numbers i.e. 2011MY up to 0- 999 and 2012MY 0-200 for ROW and less in 2011MY for NA but similar for 2012MY Thirdly where have I rubbished every thing else? All I have said is the CR is not a niche model and that a lot more than 1500 have been made and more like 3500-5000 I am going by memory for the figures and cannot be bothered to trawl through pages of pistonheads from 3 years ago and pull up the 4 sets of chassis numbers! Give me the production/sales figures for Boxster/Cayman 2011 with attention to 3rd and 4th quarters when the majority of cars to leave Stuttgart were CR and 1st quarter 2012 as no boxsters and only a handful of 2.9,3.4 and Black Edition left the factory! As i cannot be bothered to trawl through previous Porsche press releases. Are you mrD in disguise! Edited by itsybitsy on Tuesday 29th December 13:52 Edited by itsybitsy on Tuesday 29th December 14:03

Just quickly found an official porsche production and sales figures 2011 and some 12000 boxster/caymans were built but remember boxster production finished in June and majority of cars built after were CR a bit like current production of gt4/Gts has been increased as 981 production comes to a close !

anonymous said: [redacted] The boxster finished production June 2011 and I had one of the last boxsters a spyder to roll off the production line that had a rare 2012 model year vin! Here is the first quarter 2012 figures of which would have all been caymans mostly CR

anonymous said: [redacted] The boxster 987.2 finished production which is end june 2011 and the 981 was launched March 2012 ! Cayman 987.2 production ceased around end february into early March 2012 with the 981 Cayman not even launched until a year late!FACT Now do me a favour go and check this out then replyi! Oh and I did concede early on that CR could be lower numbers of 3500 plus instead of 5000 but it is a fact that there are 2 sets of vins one ending up to 3500+ for North America Markets and one ending 1600+ for Rest of World markets both split in to different model numbers to allow for Pdk and manual!

I don't have any Cayman R figures to hand, but fairly reliable numbers have been on piston head forum thread previously. The 987 Spyder numbers I have are; 1883 worldwide (235 of those UK) The figures I recall for Cayman R did without a doubt put it at a higher worldwide production figure. But I don't think it was drastically more. Somewhere between 2500-3000 I seem to recall.

I got one of the last production Cayman R. It was in March 2012 I think it was in rennlist where it was mentioned that cr production for N.A alone accounted for 3000+ cars and spyders accounted for less than 2,000 in the U.S. Not strange since the tent was always going to be an issue. CR was always more popular in the US, but dun kid yourself, the Cayman S Sport was even rarer at 700 worldwide..... so what!

the 987.2 Black Edition was only about 500 cars so even rarer still and only a handful came to the UK and it had the CR engine and spyder wheels!just shame no passive suspension and only came in flat black and no basalt black like the 997.2 B E!

itsybitsy said: the 987.2 Black Edition was only about 500 cars so even rarer still and only a handful came to the UK and it had the CR engine and spyder wheels!just shame no passive suspension and only came in flat black and no basalt black like the 997.2 B E! 987.2 Black Edition did come in Basalt Black too.

anonymous said: [redacted] That is correct - DME mapped

anonymous said: [redacted] Yes the CR was a caymanS engine with a remap and the 55mm manifold instead of a 48 mm one to give 330hp just like the black edition

Essential said: 987.2 Black Edition did come in Basalt Black too. Not sure it did I asked opc and it was not on the configurator back in 2011 and was told only flat black same for 987.2 boxster b e. I also have never seen one but I don't mind being proved wrong

itsybitsy said: Firstly I have no spyder so ino nterest in "big up the spyders " unlike yourself who has a CR! secondly a few years ago someone on rennlist wrote to Porsche for spyder numbers and got a reply of circa 1890 I cannot remember exact number and subsequently further posts have been of less than 2000 cars on other forums which is backed up by the chassis numbers i.e. 2011MY up to 0- 999 and 2012MY 0-200 for ROW and less in 2011MY for NA but similar for 2012MY Thirdly where have I rubbished every thing else? All I have said is the CR is not a niche model and that a lot more than 1500 have been made and more like 3500-5000 I am going by memory for the figures and cannot be bothered to trawl through pages of pistonheads from 3 years ago and pull up the 4 sets of chassis numbers! Give me the production/sales figures for Boxster/Cayman 2011 with attention to 3rd and 4th quarters when the majority of cars to leave Stuttgart were CR and 1st quarter 2012 as no boxsters and only a handful of 2.9,3.4 and Black Edition left the factory! As i cannot be bothered to trawl through previous Porsche press releases. Are you mrD in disguise! Edited by itsybitsy on Tuesday 29th December 13:52 Edited by itsybitsy on Tuesday 29th December 14:03 I was wondering if you were MrD in disguise tbh!! You are still working on assumptions and here-say and in your profile in your garage is listed a Spyder, maybe you sold it? But in any case I prefer to believe the Planet9 researcher

Yes I did sell my spyder in the summer but have not updated my garage until I pick up my GT4 on Saturday which Incedently some 4000 are being built !it does seem a lot for a niche model and as cmoose says that caymans don't sell so well!I I stand by the planet9 numbers are wrong and will await for your apologies when I am proved right by someone else's input ! And if( a very big if) I am wrong I will eat humble pie! Edited by itsybitsy on Tuesday 29th December 19:46

I've just emailed Porsche to see if they will provide any numbers. Should be interesting either way! I'll post up if they are forthcoming with the numbers.

Good luck with that one although Stuttgart have been a bit better lately at replying to letters as my nephew who is 14 sent them a letter about working for them in the future and they did get back to him with a little gift!

S anonymous said: [redacted] I agree with what you are saying there but as I mentioned before the black edition is a luxury CR on PASM with only a handful of right hand drive cars built! Imo the CR was just a runout special but as you say more effort was made on the spyder to distant it from a BS so the spyder is more of a model in its own right . But the CR was a big disappointment on launch but if they had done what they did to the gt4 then I would have bought one and kept it forever!

S anonymous said: [redacted] I agree with what you are saying there but as I mentioned before the black edition is a luxury CR on PASM with only a handful of right hand drive cars built! Imo the CR was just a runout special but as you say more effort was made on the spyder to distant it from a BS so the spyder is more of a model in its own right . But the CR was a big disappointment on launch but if they had done what they did to the gt4 then I would have bought one and kept it forever!

can't say I agree with that. The Gt4 is special not just because it has a 3.8 lump but it helps differentiate itself from the regular 981 brethren. The Gt3 front suspension, the Gt3 brakes, bespoke rear suspension, clubsport pack availability and bespoke styling all help make it special as the most focused mid engine porsche currently available with a manual gearbox. At an entry price of £64k, it is an unbelievable bargain. no matter that most cars are upwards of 70k when spec.ed To the common porsche fan, it simply means the incorporation of loads of GT parts (with the exception of the Gt3 engine) in a mid engine car at a price which is tens of thousands less than the Gt3. If you thinking about the price porsche will be asking (and the limited supply) for the manual 911 R, then the "bargain" factor will be even greater. Of course, if we start going through the back catalogue of porsche's greatest hits then you can find lots of gems but they aren't available new and even easily sourced (or even available at "bargain" prices currently). On saying that I do find the cayman R a particularly satisfying car to drive and given I've sold mine, I do miss it. Would I have one over a stock CSL? I honestly don't know since I have never driven a stock CSL. Would love someone to do a CR/CSL comparo, as well as a Gt4/ 997.2 Gt3 one.

anonymous said: [redacted] I frequently think about getting a 2006-2008 CS on the cheap, drop in a 3.8L engine, put some intrax coilovers, RSS monoball tarmac series suspension components, recaro spg, CAE shifter, harnesses, cup steering wheel, stoptech/ap 6-pot brakes, lithium battery, lightweight hatch and away we go............. but that's a story for another day. It wouldn't be factory original and would only be my own special edition....... would it be better for me as a toy? If one ignores resale , most definitely.

I thought about a GT4 but wasn't completely sold so I didn't put in a LOT. To buy one now I would need to put at least 50k on top of my CR.... In which case I would rather buy a leggy CR and spent 15-20k on it as a track car and have two

ajondyh said: I thought about a GT4 but wasn't completely sold so I didn't put in a LOT. To buy one now I would need to put at least 50k on top of my CR.... In which case I would rather buy a leggy CR and spent 15-20k on it as a track car and have two better yet start with a sub 20k cayman S and then spend 20k on it......it will be quick I assure you (in the right hands)

HokumPokum said: better yet start with a sub 20k cayman S and then spend 20k on it......it will be quick I assure you (in the right hands) There's that option too, but there is a lot of difficult to get stuff already on the R. The standard car is quick enough on track days even against far more exotic stuff

Got an email back from Porsche UK saying they dont have any information on how many cars they have sold!

fridaypassion said: Got an email back from Porsche UK saying they dont have any information on how many cars they have sold! not surprised!you need to write to Germany as Porsche UK would not have an idea on production numbers!For UK numbers the DVLA provides "cars registered new for the first time "

anonymous said: [redacted] Didn't we have a thread on this? Imo only get a cr if you plan on keeping it original. Otherwise for driving pleasure, get a cs or even a plain c and let the mod heaven begin. I fancy either a 996 gt3 or a modded Cayman or an Elise cup if they offer the new exige 350 gear shift.

The new lotus gearshift is a marketing update! There's nothing wrong with the Toyota Lotus shifters they actually compare pretty well to Porsche which isnt exactly the last work in snickety really is it?

just doesn't feel precise. gates are vague in the ones i have tried. regardless of marketing update, it looks brilliant.

itsybitsy said: fridaypassion said: Got an email back from Porsche UK saying they dont have any information on how many cars they have sold! not surprised!you need to write to Germany as Porsche UK would not have an idea on production numbers!For UK numbers the DVLA provides "cars registered new for the first time " I too contacted Porsche UK to ask the question. Their response to me was that The production numbers of cars of a specific specification (I had asked about CR numbers) is 'unavailable from Porsche Germany'. So either they don't know (surely impossible) or they won't say. Needless to say the CR is a great and unbelievably rare car that is clearly worth lots of money and comes with a cast iron guarantee of profit for it's owner. Maybe

fridaypassion said: Rs in the correct spec are rare I've been trying to buy one for a few months now. Hopefully resolved this week. So did you buy it?

Masher964 said: ....clearly worth lots of money and comes with a cast iron guarantee of profit for it's owner. Maybe There ya go!

Dan911 said: So did you buy it? Yeah sure did

fridaypassion said: Dan911 said: So did you buy it? Yeah sure did So c'mon, what your thoughts on the R then? ...I know you've been wanting to drive one for a while,

n17ves said: fridaypassion said: Dan911 said: So did you buy it? Yeah sure did So c'mon, what your thoughts on the R then? ...I know you've been wanting to drive one for a while,

Can I defer answering until it's sold? It's a great car but other than the obvious exclusivity and almost guaranteed lack of depreciation erm....give me a PASM with some spec. I think they R is a bit too firm for the road to be honest. I wouldn't be rushing out to swap the none PASM kit either frankly. There's no magic going on with the steering or chassis that's not there on a boggo car. In short it's a bit better than an already superb car. Me personally I think having the option to switch the dampers edges it and for the roads I drive on the PASM works better. I'm more than happy to keep this car if I don't have any biters but if it does go I'll be looking extra hard for a good S and getting a quaife diff. There are probably other things I'd do with an S that would be sacrilege on an R such as pulling some of the interior and soundproofing out/after market wheels etc. I have first dibs on Bubbles' old S and when I do get it back it will never be sold!

fridaypassion said: Can I defer answering until it's sold? It's a great car but other than the obvious exclusivity and almost guaranteed lack of depreciation erm....give me a PASM with some spec. I think they R is a bit too firm for the road to be honest. I wouldn't be rushing out to swap the none PASM kit either frankly. There's no magic going on with the steering or chassis that's not there on a boggo car. In short it's a bit better than an already superb car. Me personally I think having the option to switch the dampers edges it and for the roads I drive on the PASM works better. I'm more than happy to keep this car if I don't have any biters but if it does go I'll be looking extra hard for a good S and getting a quaife diff. There are probably other things I'd do with an S that would be sacrilege on an R such as pulling some of the interior and soundproofing out/after market wheels etc. I have first dibs on Bubbles' old S and when I do get it back it will never be sold! I think the passive dampers on the R are extremely well-judged. Yes it's a bit firmer than a PASM car but it's also that much sharper as a consequence and much more interesting on track as a result.

It's not as firm as PASM on stiff setting though I think Porsche missed a trick with the R they should have kept PASM but had multiple settings on the dampers with the lower springs and different geometry. I've nailed what the issue is on the road for me. At speed the R suspension irons out all the imperfections in the road surface but it does it to the point that the car is devoid of feel. The PASM in soft mode leaves some of the bumps and cambers so you still feel what's going on. It's still a great car but I dispute it's appeal lies in how much better it drives than a regular S.

fridaypassion said: It's not as firm as PASM on stiff setting though I think Porsche missed a trick with the R they should have kept PASM but had multiple settings on the dampers with the lower springs and different geometry. I've nailed what the issue is on the road for me. At speed the R suspension irons out all the imperfections in the road surface but it does it to the point that the car is devoid of feel. The PASM in soft mode leaves some of the bumps and cambers so you still feel what's going on. It's still a great car but I dispute it's appeal lies in how much better it drives than a regular S. You need a Panamera!

I don't think anyone needs a Panablllreeeeeera! Those are my thoughts anyway. I've got a decent amount of experience with all three suspension options now. How many of you R owners have owned or driven a PASM equipped Cayman? Obviously it's the law of the tinternet to defend your corner but I have no axe to grind here. As I say the R is a great car but it's appeal lies in its limited numbers and good looks not in how drastically different it drives to a stock car.

Was the r suspension bespoke for the car or Spyder suspension bolted on? Presume the suspension was developed first for the Spyder?

I have driven and owned a Cayman s sport Ltd edition with pasm and now a CR I can tell you the CR is the best Porsche I have driven and I have owned around 10 Porsches including two GT3s which are horrible road cars they are like a wild mustang to control on our UK roads the CR can be driven without feeling exhausted everytime you get out. The CR is on another level road holding is superb never hard crashy but firm for awesome road holding. Although the Cayman sport is a good car its just not as good. I think some might be missing the point of the CR its supposed to be light but people want to load it up with options which is fine we all seek different things from a car. My personal preference is my car Manuel gearbox buckets seats PSE chrono it does have Radio and A/C alcantara interior light Spyder wheels. Perfect in my opinion for me. Only CR weak spot if being critical are the brakes which can be upgraded another 20 or 30 bhp would be nice but not essential plenty fast enough for today's roads and occasionally track. I hear people complain about Porsches with firm suspension a lot are mature drivers or have bad backs or expect sports car performance with a limo smooth ride its a sports car.If you expect a smooth ride buy a car that will waft over bumps not a harder core sports car. The new breed of Porsche such as the 981 Boxster as we have one is more road complaint and soaks up our uk road surface very well pretty amazing really, yes the steering has less feel but you soon get used to it not an issue for us. Final CR assessment in my opion is its a great drivers car for road and occasionally track and fun great call rounder mines used for road trips and just love driving it always brings a smile which is what a sports car is supposed to do. Edited by tracydeedance on Thursday 7th January 08:45 Edited by tracydeedance on Thursday 7th January 08:47 Edited by tracydeedance on Thursday 7th January 08:51

fridaypassion said: It's a great car but other than the obvious exclusivity and almost guaranteed lack of depreciation erm....give me a PASM with some spec. I think they R is a bit too firm for the road to be honest. I wouldn't be rushing out to swap the none PASM kit either frankly. There's no magic going on with the steering or chassis that's not there on a boggo car. In short it's a bit better than an already superb car. Me personally I think having the option to switch the dampers edges it and for the roads I drive on the PASM works better. I had very similar thoughts to yours when I test drove the R back in 2011. My S with PASM is firm but not harsh, the R felt just the wrong side of harsh in normal road driving. I also agree that it really comes together at speed, and that the steering feel is a shade or two worse than a 987.1S. The new GT4 rides better than the R does, in my opinion. Just the right side of harsh in normal driving. I'm a fan of PASM. Each to their own!

tracydeedance said: omplain about Porsches with firm suspension a lot are mature drivers or have bad backs or expect sports car performance with a limo smooth ride its a sports car.If you expect a smooth ride buy a car that will waft over bumps not a harder core sports car. The new breed of Porsche such as the 981 Boxster as we have one is more road complaint and soaks up our uk road surface very well pretty amazing really, yes the steering has less feel but you soon get used to it not an issue for us. Final CR assessment in my opion is its a great drivers car for road and occasionally track. Edited by tracydeedance on Thursday 7th January 08:45 Edited by tracydeedance on Thursday 7th January 08:47 50+ years ago Colin Chapman demonstrated pretty convincingly that you don't need brick hard suspension on a ROAD car for outstandingly brilliant, fluid handling. I took that view when I bought my first Lotus and have driven nothing to change my mind since. The 981 demonstrates that very well. I'd still say the steering is it's weakest point - which I'll never be entirely happy with as long as I drive Loti and Caterhams to remind me of its deficiencies. That said, it does seem to improve with miles - perhaps the friction in the system reduces with use. For a car that is going to be regularly tracked it's a different matter - tracks are very smooth - but British roads are anything but.

Indeed - and that's the beauty of PASM on a road car that will occasionally be used on track. I keep PASM in Normal at Oulton, and in Sport everywhere else I've been so far. On the road it's almost always in Normal!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yes I agree. I'm not precious about "defending" my car. I drove PASM equipped Caymans on many occasions but IMHO, they are not as good as they passive suspension in the R. It's definitely not too harsh for the road, if you chaps believe that, try a GTR some time! The R is a great blend of good road car and occasional track car. The brakes are a bit naff (which is why I've upgraded mine) and it's much better now. I think it should have had more power at outset but it's hardly slow as standard. However, with buckets, lightweight alloys and PSE, it makes for a fantastic motor and I think the driving experience is far better than the standard car. Having said that, it could have been even better but then it would surely have trampled all over some pretty tasty 911s. Still not sure that I like it as much as I did my GTS as an ownership experience but there's no doubt in my mind that the CR is more than the sum of its parts.

tracydeedance said: I have driven and owned a Cayman s sport Ltd edition with pasm and now a CR I can tell you the CR is the best Porsche I have driven and I have owned around 10 Porsches including two GT3s which are horrible road cars they are like a wild mustang to control on our UK roads the CR can be driven without feeling exhausted everytime you get out. The CR is on another level road holding is superb never hard crashy but firm for awesome road holding. Although the Cayman sport is a good car its just not as good. I think some might be missing the point of the CR its supposed to be light but people want to load it up with options which is fine we all seek different things from a car. My personal preference is my car Manuel gearbox buckets seats PSE chrono it does have Radio and A/C alcantara interior light Spyder wheels. Perfect in my opinion for me. Only CR weak spot if being critical are the brakes which can be upgraded another 20 or 30 bhp would be nice but not essential plenty fast enough for today's roads and occasionally track. I hear people complain about Porsches with firm suspension a lot are mature drivers or have bad backs or expect sports car performance with a limo smooth ride its a sports car.If you expect a smooth ride buy a car that will waft over bumps not a harder core sports car. The new breed of Porsche such as the 981 Boxster as we have one is more road complaint and soaks up our uk road surface very well pretty amazing really, yes the steering has less feel but you soon get used to it not an issue for us. Final CR assessment in my opion is its a great drivers car for road and occasionally track and fun great call rounder mines used for road trips and just love driving it always brings a smile which is what a sports car is supposed to do. I agree with this other than to say that the GT3RS 4.0 is the best Porsche that I have driven. That's an awesome bit of kit!

anonymous said: [redacted] Yes I completely agree, then it would be utterly incredible and probably the best modern Porsche.

Gearing is an interesting one I guess there are lots off little bits that they could have done with the R but I think ultimately its more of a marketing department car than an engineering department car. The weight loss thing is a total red herring really because who has a car without a radio and AC in reality? So you are left with ally doors and some token red door pulls. I still would maintain that the passive dampers are a mistake if they could have used some kind of developed PASM system although I guess this would have been something outside the Porsche model range and if you cant have it on the 911....etc etc. The suspension is very far from being the best thing about the car IMHO. It is too firm for the road but then again the normal PASM setting is too soft and the active PASM mode is too hard so I would concede that in a way the R suspension is a bit of a compromise. I would say its 20% away from the hard PASM setting. I have this car for sale (its the day job) but all my observations considered theres still nothing really I'd rather have as a daily so if it stays it stays. There may come a point at which I decide to pull the ads and register it personally and keep it but I have to say the main driver for this will be the likely timescale to get BubblesNWs old S back. That particular car (S with PCCBs/buckets/nac etc etc) is amongst the best road cars I've ever driven. One day I will learn which ones to hang onto! OPC warranty is due for renewal quite soon so if I fork out for that I think I'll just do a Magnus Walker and get out and drive it (whilst keeping several low mileage pristine cars in my loft apartment) Bubbles had a great geo setting on the S which I think I'll try an get done on the R to see if we can wake the steering and turn in up a bit.

anonymous said: [redacted] Agree with Moose 100% here. In general active dampers are a bit annoying, they're never quite right. Porsche should have spent more cash on some trick dampers and I don't understand the comments about the R being firm. I know that ride firmness is subjective and one man's "firm", is another's "sled". But I just drove to Derbyshire and back in it today and it was perfectly comfortable. I think it could be firmer still but more supple and then it would be incredible.

fridaypassion said: It's not as firm as PASM on stiff setting though I think Porsche missed a trick with the R they should have kept PASM but had multiple settings on the dampers with the lower springs and different geometry. I've nailed what the issue is on the road for me. At speed the R suspension irons out all the imperfections in the road surface but it does it to the point that the car is devoid of feel. The PASM in soft mode leaves some of the bumps and cambers so you still feel what's going on. It's still a great car but I dispute it's appeal lies in how much better it drives than a regular S. I have to ask - what did you mean by the comment I've put in bold? Feel in my view has nothing to do with bumps, it's about being able to judge the amount of grip from the road surface. The R is brilliant at this like most of the 987 /997 Porsches. The R actually has more feel than the std car, not tons more but enough to notice. This is almost certainly down to the lowered suspension and sports dampers and can almost certainly be further enhanced with better tyres. But feedback from the steering wheel and chassis is absolutely fantastic on the R in my opinion. An Exige has more feel but it's also far less refined. When I drove mine back to back with the Exige, I felt the R was the better road compromise and my car does mostly road miles with occasional track use.

Why do some people want their sports cars to ride like saloons! I am in the passive damper camp I am not a fan of PASM and I rather the gt4 didn't have it! My spyder which was most likely as firm as a CR and had buckets was a most comfortable car to drive over distance! Also my CS gen 1 before that had passive and 18" wheels and was excellent far better than a 19" wheel PASM version! And to add when I drove a CR back to back with my CS there was not a lot of difference between the two although the CR was more focused and a little bit quicker but not a lot! Hence why I do not rate the CR over a CS gen2 on passive dampers and 18" wheels and imo the CS gen2 is a better buy £ for £ as long as it has the passive and 18s! Edited by GT4P on Friday 8th January 16:50

GT4P said: Why do some people want their sports cars to ride like saloons! I am in the passive damper camp I am not a fan of PASM and I rather the gt4 didn't have it! My spyder which was most likely as firm as a CR and had buckets was a most comfortable car to drive over distance! Also my CS gen 1 before that had passive and 18" wheels and was excellent far better than a 19" wheel PASM version! And to add when I drove a CR back to back with my CS there was not a lot of difference between the two although the CR was more focused and a little bit quicker but not a lot! Hence why I do not rate the CR over a CS gen2 on passive dampers and 18" wheels and imo the CS gen2 is a better buy £ for £ as long as it has the passive and 18s! Edited by GT4P on Friday 8th January 16:50 Agreed the difference isn't night and day but that's true of any number of Porkers. GT3RS vs GT3 especially 997 gen 1 for example. The CR is noticeably better than a CS. And I've no idea why you'd want your sports car to ride like a saloon?

GT4P said: Why do some people want their sports cars to ride like saloons! I am in the passive damper camp I am not a fan of PASM and I rather the gt4 didn't have it! My spyder which was most likely as firm as a CR and had buckets was a most comfortable car to drive over distance! Also my CS gen 1 before that had passive and 18" wheels and was excellent far better than a 19" wheel PASM version! And to add when I drove a CR back to back with my CS there was not a lot of difference between the two although the CR was more focused and a little bit quicker but not a lot! Hence why I do not rate the CR over a CS gen2 on passive dampers and 18" wheels and imo the CS gen2 is a better buy £ for £ as long as it has the passive and 18s! Edited by GT4P on Friday 8th January 16:50 Some of us don't believe that hair shirts are necessary or desirable! Basing your judgements on 987s (where PASM has come in for a fair bit of criticism) rather than 981 is simply unfair. Not all systems are as a good as each other - not all passive suspensions, manual gearboxes, engines etc etc. It's not sensible to suggest that just because one PASM system isn't designed that well that it applies to them all.

GT4P said: Why do some people want their sports cars to ride like saloons! I am in the passive damper camp I am not a fan of PASM and I rather the gt4 didn't have it! My spyder which was most likely as firm as a CR and had buckets was a most comfortable car to drive over distance! Also my CS gen 1 before that had passive and 18" wheels and was excellent far better than a 19" wheel PASM version! And to add when I drove a CR back to back with my CS there was not a lot of difference between the two although the CR was more focused and a little bit quicker but not a lot! Hence why I do not rate the CR over a CS gen2 on passive dampers and 18" wheels and imo the CS gen2 is a better buy £ for £ as long as it has the passive and 18s! Edited by GT4P on Friday 8th January 16:50 Agreed the difference isn't night and day but that's true of any number of Porkers. GT3RS vs GT3 especially 997 gen 1 for example. The CR is noticeably better than a CS. And I've no idea why you'd want your sports car to ride like a saloon?

My observations on the suspension come from a reasonable breadth of experience with a lot of different cars but as I say the R just to me irons out too much of a road surface. As speeds increase its normal for most modern relatively heavy cars to start accessing the more compliant section of the damping. The R does this but it becomes more numb as it does so. There's good front end grip and the limits are easy to feel as they are in a 2.7 that's just the chassis. To me the PASM just gives better detail whilst still ironing out the surface and both setups are devastatingly quick. It's all open to personal preference and interpretation of course. I have a very critical approach to any car owning a couple of cars that I think are the pinnacle of how good it's possible to feel going down a typical B road (Stock vx220 and track spec Elise) I've been more critical of other cars and it's not very often any +1000kg car would get more than a month of attention from me. Testament to the platform but for me the R is not the ultimate exploitation of the chassis. To say I'm looking for a different kind of car is just not the case. I'm looking for the ultimate in ride,handling, steering feel, compliance and exploitability. The R is good but there's a lot of room for improvement.

fridaypassion said: The R is good but there's a lot of room for improvement. Maybe your R needs a £10k suspension re-fresh?

I just love the way anything "modern" gets a bashing! I don't have PDK, PASM, Sports Chrono and the other toys because I don't need them. But I wouldn't for one moment suggest that my car is "better" for not having them.

I think there are just two camps of drivers here - those who like their sportscars to breathe with the road, and those who like their sportscars to fidget along the road. Like fridaypassion and bcr5784, I'm in the breathe camp. Perhaps someone's individual preference is partly linked to their driving style? I suspect that if you like to be neat, precise, smooth and quick you might prefer sportscars that breathe, whereas if you like to hustle the car and be busy in the cockpit you might prefer the fidgety ones? I like the fidgety cars as well, but I prefer the ones that breathe and have chosen accordingly (in the last 12 years being a VX Turbo followed by 987.1 Cayman S on 18"s and with PASM). Given my preference, I see PASM as the best of both worlds and it certainly adapts (albeit reactively rather than predictively) to how the car's being driven and the surface underneath. Anyway I pick up my new GT4 in 2 hours' time and am properly excited!

Stunters said: I think there are just two camps of drivers here - those who like their sportscars to breathe with the road, and those who like their sportscars to fidget along the road. Like fridaypassion and bcr5784, I'm in the breathe camp. Perhaps someone's individual preference is partly linked to their driving style? I suspect that if you like to be neat, precise, smooth and quick you might prefer sportscars that breathe, whereas if you like to hustle the car and be busy in the cockpit you might prefer the fidgety ones? Spot on!

Stunters said: 987.1 Cayman S on 18"s and with PASM. I think you would have enjoyed that car as much as I did without the PASM Anyway I pick up my new GT4 in 2 hours' time and am properly excited! Anyway congratulations I think you will enjoy this one a whole lot more imo the gt4 is what the R should have been in the first place but passive dampers;)

anonymous said: [redacted] OK so the first part of the damping at slow speed is too firm. Not much can really be done without using some actual serious dampers like Ohlins etc. As you speed up in the R the suspension works and in a way becomes more supple which again is normal for a relatively heavy car. On the PASM setup at this point the car maintains some degree of movement over the terrain wheras the R kind of just feels level no matter what you are doing with it. I can see how this would be perceived as good as the car is dancing over the road surface and you are going fast without having to do anything. The PASM and even to a lesser extent regular suspension gives more feel. You can attain good feelsome damping (as Stunters says with a car like the VX220 Turbo these are cars you need to drive to appreciate whats possible) but its normally achieved by loosing weight from the car and running softer springs. The heavier and stiffer sprung the car the worse it will be. A bit of body roll and the perceived softness of the regular PASM mode overlooks the fact that its actually feeding twice as much detail of the road surface up through the chassis. Thats the crux of what I was getting at.

So the R dampers are serious or just different spec made to a budget by an OEM?

They look pretty budget to me. Just different valving specs internally i guess. There is a pic on the carnewal site I think. They offer the Spyder / R dampers and springs as an upgrade.

Bring back the guy with the red one that swapped it all