996.2 gt3 best b-road suspension - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi Team, Just wondered which suspension people would recommend for b-road blasting? I'm OK with sacrificing some track feedback as it'll spend more time on local bumpy b-roads Thanks

Tractive seems to be getting good reviews : http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=148042

Thanks Slippydiff for the suggestion, seems that its around £7k for the kit fitted Im hearing good things about the KW(?) 3 way kit but i guess i need to find owners and go out in them with it fitted

Had KWV3's on my CSR, put them on one of the E46 M3's and on another 996. Thought is was brilliant and well worth the money. Also put Bilstein B16's on the 130i track car. Quite a bit cheaper but ...the KWV3's are better and worth the extra £1500 or so over the Bilstein, No experience of tracktive but at £7k, I would need huge amounts of convincing

The OP asked for “the best”. KW V3’s are a decent upgrade, but they’re far from the best, that would be Ohlins TTX, ExeTC, Tractive, MCS etc etc. All of which will cost him between £5-7K depending on spec. Probably best if the OP stipulates his budget

No budget as such but then if KW3's at around £3500 will be ample for my needs as opposed to £7000 then happy days. Ive been out in a Exe-TC equipped 996 C2 (friend of a friend) in the past but didnt really notice much from the passengers side. Sadly i didnt get a drive so not sure if the driving experience would warrant that.

I’ve been out in a 996.1 C2 with Ohlins R+T (passenger), 996.2 GT3 KW Manthey (driven, though on the day the damping rate wasn’t set correctly), 996.2 GT3 Nitron (passenger), and I own a 996.2 GT3 with Moton dampers with eibach springs (rebuilt 17 months ago). I was impressed with both Ohlins and Nitron. I like my Moton too (well, from above 30mph anyway! I feel the spring rate is too hard but fine once above 30mph) but if I was to change mine I would go with Nitron. Not sure what the spring rate but they’re spot on. Not sure where you are but if you ever visit north west / north Wales, you’re welcome to try mine. The chap with Nitron is in Surrey I may be able to put you in touch with him. And I’m sure Nine Excellence can put you in touch with owners with Tractive (they fitted Tractive on at least two 996 GT3)

recently put tractives on a 997rs. So far, have to admit I'm quite impressed for usage on the road (especially running over pretty rubbish belgian backroads and on the m25 tarmac ripples) which I do think it's considerably more settled than previously on OEM dampers. only taken the car around the ring and haven't yet used it at Silverstone yet where I have a much better baseline to compare for track use but weather permitting, should be doing so in mid june.....

isaldiri said: recently put tractives on a 997rs. So far, have to admit I'm quite impressed for usage on the road (especially running over pretty rubbish belgian backroads and on the m25 tarmac ripples) which I do think it's considerably more settled than previously on OEM dampers. only taken the car around the ring and haven't yet used it at Silverstone yet where I have a much better baseline to compare for track use but weather permitting, should be doing so in mid june..... Will be very interested to read your review on these, as I did see when 9e posted that they had recently done this.

isaldiri said: recently put tractives on a 997rs. So far, have to admit I'm quite impressed for usage on the road (especially running over pretty rubbish belgian backroads and on the m25 tarmac ripples) which I do think it's considerably more settled than previously on OEM dampers. only taken the car around the ring and haven't yet used it at Silverstone yet where I have a much better baseline to compare for track use but weather permitting, should be doing so in mid june..... I’d you try the DSC box on the factory set up at all?

ttdan said: isaldiri said: recently put tractives on a 997rs. So far, have to admit I'm quite impressed for usage on the road (especially running over pretty rubbish belgian backroads and on the m25 tarmac ripples) which I do think it's considerably more settled than previously on OEM dampers. only taken the car around the ring and haven't yet used it at Silverstone yet where I have a much better baseline to compare for track use but weather permitting, should be doing so in mid june..... I’d you try the DSC box on the factory set up at all? Yes had the dsc installed um....quite a few years ago. Tbh didn't notice much if any difference on the road (I realise this might be somewhat of an outlier vs most others who did change to the dsv on the 7.2 who seem to get quite a bit of road improvement) which was a little surprising I have to admit as some of the rennlist feedback was suggesting quite a difference on the road.... . on track it was a bit more stable through quick transitions (say maggotts/becketts) and I think generally a bit better but I didn't quite get motivated enough to do a back to back timing comparison.

On road, the DSC seemed to work a treat on my 997.1 GT3, definitely more controlled and compliant too. On the 'sport' mode it's marginally better, but I feel (and this could just be setup and geometry) there are times where the dampers don;t keep up. It's a bit more vague on faster stuff (sketchy even, down through Fuchsrohre) and there's possibly more tendency to lock-up on big braking events. Tractives now ordered, so I will hopefully see the benefit of the full package. Certainly, good as they are, the OEM Bilsteins (like their PSM controller) were slower, older tech, so I would be surprised if there is no performance improvement.

Digga said: On road, the DSC seemed to work a treat on my 997.1 GT3, definitely more controlled and compliant too. On the 'sport' mode it's marginally better, but I feel (and this could just be setup and geometry) there are times where the dampers don;t keep up. It's a bit more vague on faster stuff (sketchy even, down through Fuchsrohre) and there's possibly more tendency to lock-up on big braking events. Tractives now ordered, so I will hopefully see the benefit of the full package. Certainly, good as they are, the OEM Bilsteins (like their PSM controller) were slower, older tech, so I would be surprised if there is no performance improvement. Cool. I've been looking at this on and off for a while with a view to upgrading when the need eventually arises. They seem to have a number of different products on the market, which did you go for, ACE, Touring or Road/Track? Have you been able to drive a car with your chosen setup fitted, or are you taking a punt on what you think would meet your needs best?

rrroro said: Digga said: On road, the DSC seemed to work a treat on my 997.1 GT3, definitely more controlled and compliant too. On the 'sport' mode it's marginally better, but I feel (and this could just be setup and geometry) there are times where the dampers don;t keep up. It's a bit more vague on faster stuff (sketchy even, down through Fuchsrohre) and there's possibly more tendency to lock-up on big braking events. Tractives now ordered, so I will hopefully see the benefit of the full package. Certainly, good as they are, the OEM Bilsteins (like their PSM controller) were slower, older tech, so I would be surprised if there is no performance improvement. Cool. I've been looking at this on and off for a while with a view to upgrading when the need eventually arises. They seem to have a number of different products on the market, which did you go for, ACE, Touring or Road/Track? Have you been able to drive a car with your chosen setup fitted, or are you taking a punt on what you think would meet your needs best? Touring, which I believe is what Isaldiri also has. The setup is highly recommended by 9e and Mike at Sports & Classic (who look after my car) had no axe to grind - Tractive, KW, Ohlins, Bilstein - but does collaborate with Ken at 9e. They are far enough apart to compliment one another, rather than compete. Ken has had excellent results with these. Isaldiri and me managed to get quite a few laps taking turns leading/following at the DN track day and it was interesting to see how well th Tractives coped.

rrroro said: Cool. I've been looking at this on and off for a while with a view to upgrading when the need eventually arises. They seem to have a number of different products on the market, which did you go for, ACE, Touring or Road/Track? Have you been able to drive a car with your chosen setup fitted, or are you taking a punt on what you think would meet your needs best? The main difference (as I understand things, perhaps one of the tractive suppliers on PH could comment if I got things wrong which might well be the case!) is that the tractive touring line is essentially determined (valving wise) for a certain spring rate which is 'preset' so to speak while the road/track option allows one to customise the spring rates you want so if different from the existing one used on the touring line, you can get the dampers more closely matched to optimise that spring rate. fwiw, I'd asked to match the existing OEM setup (on the 4.0 I am given to believe it's a linear rear spring vs progressive on the 7.1 and 7.2 gt3 and gt3rs although the net spring rate is iirc identical at 120nm) and the eibach springs tractive use are linear anyway so all good on that front....

EXE-TC. by a country mile. 7 WRC wins.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: EXE-TC. by a country mile. 7 WRC wins. Yes, for a passive damper set up, very possibly the best. Very expensive too.

Digga said: take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: EXE-TC. by a country mile. 7 WRC wins. Yes, for a passive damper set up, very possibly the best. Very expensive too. 4 to 5.5k... Is that expensive... Especially in the Porsche world.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: Digga said: take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: EXE-TC. by a country mile. 7 WRC wins. Yes, for a passive damper set up, very possibly the best. Very expensive too. 4 to 5.5k... Is that expensive... Especially in the Porsche world. Higher end, but no, not too bad really.

I'd be looking at Exe-TC or Ohlins TTX, as with a considered approach to spring rates and valving, I believe you can have the best of both worlds, that being compliance and perfect body control both on the road and on track. Granted, that for them to be optimal on track you'll most likely have to be prepared to adjust the dampers manually when you arrive (rather than via an app on your phone) but that would be compromise I'd willingly accept to keep things analogue and passive. But if anyone would like to demonstrate their Tractive 996 GT3 set up to me (on the road) I'm willing to travel to experience them ...

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: Digga said: take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: EXE-TC. by a country mile. 7 WRC wins. Yes, for a passive damper set up, very possibly the best. Very expensive too. 4 to 5.5k... Is that expensive... Especially in the Porsche world. Aren't they closer to 7k plus fitting? Which puts them in the same bracket as the tractives? I really should have put a question mark in the title header

Ducktales said: Aren't they closer to 7k plus fitting? Which puts them in the same bracket as the tractives? I really should have put a question mark in the title header I had a quick look on their site which said 5.5 for gt3. Even at 7k they'd be worth every penny. I have a set on my lancer. They really are very very good. Best way to describe it was it made the car feel a couple of hundred kilos lighter. They're beautifully supple down a b road. Similar to lotus in that softly sprung highly damped feel. I take the view that suspension (and associated geo) is the best mod you can do to a car.. But then I've got just under 3ks worth of suspension on a mountain bike so probably biased. Try a car fitted with one. They sell themselves.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: I take the view that suspension (and associated geo) is the best mod you can do to a car.. 100% agree.

Tractive will have a controller where you program how the dampers react. I think? They actually use the DSC controller, or can do. So if you’ve used DSC controller out of the box and liked it or not liked it you’ve possibly not programmed it to do what you’d like it to do. I’m led to understand that the Tractive damper will react faster to its electronic prompts from the controller than the factory dampers (stock or DDC) but again you need to set it for your requirements. In both scenarios there’s a LOT of adjustment available to get what you like.

TDT said: take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: I take the view that suspension (and associated geo) is the best mod you can do to a car.. 100% agree. Very much so but I guess the difference is that it typically needs a certain amount of skill to setup said suspension properly. I'm kind of the opinion most of the high end dampers are close enough (ttx is clearly the best though ) that it boils down much more to what's being done with them that translates down to the end user having a better experience. My hope is that being lazy, the tractives can do a 'good enough' job in a wide enough range of circumstances that even if less good than some others, the electronic optimisation is sufficient to make up for that than fiddling with clicks on 3 way adjustables etc......

isaldiri said: Very much so but I guess the difference is that it typically needs a certain amount of skill to setup said suspension properly. I'm kind of the opinion most of the high end dampers are close enough (ttx is clearly the best though ) that it boils down much more to what's being done with them that translates down to the end user having a better experience. My hope is that being lazy, the tractives can do a 'good enough' job in a wide enough range of circumstances that even if less good than some others, the electronic optimisation is sufficient to make up for that than fiddling with clicks on 3 way adjustables etc...... That's what I liked about EXE TC. Their setup is based on the car and not just a guess (why they sell for such a limited range of cars) . Mine came with a full geo suggestion + damping settings. It was right out of the box. Ex works WRC driver commented on how well the car went down a b road after driving it. Never tracked it mind so that I can't comment on.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: I take the view that suspension (and associated geo) is the best mod you can do to a car.. But then I've got just under 3ks worth of suspension on a mountain bike so probably biased. I wouldn’t say biased, just well informed. Here’s what I said on this very forum in 2020 : Slippydiff said: As I said previously, really good, high end (for which read expensive) dampers are all too often under appreciated, most choose to spend their money on increasing the power output of their cars, rather than spending it on suspension components that enable them to actually use the power ... and ... Sadly, really good quality dampers are unappreciated by most, but they can transform an adequate chassis into something truly superlative. I spent over an hour on the phone with EXE-TC a couple of months ago, it was a very illuminating conversation. Those that know the company will know a large part of their development background was in the WRC, accordingly their ethos from the perspective of spring rates, is the polar opposite of most (though not all) high end damper manufacturers, and as you’ve said, they don’t build a one size fits all damper for a specific car, rather they want to know what you use the car for, it’s weight etc etc, so that they can build you a set of dampers tailored specifically to your car and your use. I suspect you’d be pleasantly surprised just how good your road biased EXE-TC’s would be if you were to venture on track with them ... And it’s also noteworthy that Singer chose EXE-TC over their usual TTX’s specified dampers for the DLS : Suspension porn :

So we have been fitting these for a couple of years now but last 9 months we have pretty much a car in at all times having them fitted. We have covered all the main models, including recently 997 4L RS which was first in the world to have these. Some basic points - there is a Touring line version - don't let this put you off by the name because it is far from just Touring. Basically Julian at Tractive and Steve Bennett (UK distributer ) wanted to hit the market with a better price point. So these are one way adjustable with fixed spring rates. Price is approx £3500+Vat for the kit and then installation on top. - There is not a choice of spring rates for the Touring line - it is designed to be plug and play. - On the Touring line, the point is to use the stock top mounts, and regarding springs, these are not changed for the 991 GT3 range - we use the stock springs for those cars. The rest come with springs. - Since we were early adopters of this in the UK, as the kits have progressed, we have determined the appropriate spring rates along with tractive. So for example we run 40/110nm for the 997 turbos etc, we matched the 50/120 for the 997 RS 4L. - So generally speaking the Touring line has proper spring rates that allows for both road and track. The ace version is almost twice the price, 3 way adjustable, and you can chose the spring rates. Frankly unless you are racing the Touring line is the right choice. We don't really do these (ace) , but have done in exceptional circumstances. - The biggest advantage of the Tractive dampers is the valving - it is 10 times quicker than stock PASM - it also has a wider range of dampening from full soft to full hard - as an example stock PASM is around 1500ma to 500ma, where as Tractive ( with a DSC controller ) can use the full range of 2000ma to 200ma. It is quite hard to convince that a softer spring than stock springs will provide better performance - but it works because of the wider range and valving. Regarding DSC - you can in PASM cars use the PASM controller as standard and not DSC. You will still see a marked improvement in dampening However, imo the DSC when programmed for Tractive, makes a massive jump over PASM. Setting aside what DSC does as stock, although we don't sell stock DSC controllers - we modify them now with different config files as the standard config file does not take into account different variances - for example a 991.2 T has softer springs than say a 991.2 GTS. With pre PASM cars, DSC is not an option with Tractive. Instead Tractive has it own controller ( think of this as a DSC equal ) and a screen for the end user to have up to 5 preset settings for dampening, pitch and roll. The end user cannot change the Tractive controller, only the screen. So, how does it work compared to other options. Well direct comparison to Bilstein PASM options such as B16 Damptronics etc, Tractive is way ahead. We used to like Ohlins etc for passive, but again back to back on 997, 991 the Tractive is so much better. In fact, we with tractive we don't need to be so aggressive on camber to achieve the same results. As some have mentioned, we have done many 996 GT3s , 996 Turbos, 993RS and other non PASM cars. Installation time is approx another 6 hours on top of PASM cars to run the wiring and screen etc. The feedback has been amazing on both PASM and non PASM cars. I think the difference here is the ability to program the DSC in the PASM cars with Tractive. Just a simple example of customer with 991.2 Turbo S, modified running 800ps, who uses it on track, and complained as expected, that the car just washes out in the corners, not surprising given the weight of the car. I was able to tell him we could sort that with Tractive and DSC. We installed that and I wrote a custom file first for him to use on a european trip so that he could get use to the changes - I didn't give the full range of dampening at that stage. When he came back, I changed the config to use the full range of dampening and gave it back to him with comment watch the turn in as it is like GT3 now. It is exactly like that now and on track he loves it. Those changes are instantly noticeable. It is always hard to recommend without real world experience. Someone spending £5k-6k on upgraded dampers expects to see a noticeable difference. This is what Tractive does. Tractive imo gives the best of both worlds - you can have that level of comfort on the road, but then a great damper for the track. Ken

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: I take the view that suspension (and associated geo) is the best mod you can do to a car.. But then I've got just under 3ks worth of suspension on a mountain bike so probably biased. Agree regarding car suspension. As for mtb, both mine now run the superb Ohlins 36 air forks. Just sublime. Bothe have 4-way adjustable rear shocks, one Cane Creek, the other Ohlins TTX. You do the maths.

Digga said: Agree regarding car suspension. As for mtb, both mine now run the superb Ohlins 36 air forks. Just sublime. Bothe have 4-way adjustable rear shocks, one Cane Creek, the other Ohlins TTX. You do the maths. EXT for me... Funnily enough It was the WRC experience that sold me on them too. Never tried Ohlins bike stuff... It's good they're getting this feedback now. Their shaky start put me off if I'm honest. Their car stuff is great. ETA I'd like to try a car with some EXT dampers based on their bike stuff.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said: Digga said: Agree regarding car suspension. As for mtb, both mine now run the superb Ohlins 36 air forks. Just sublime. Bothe have 4-way adjustable rear shocks, one Cane Creek, the other Ohlins TTX. You do the maths. EXT for me... Funnily enough It was the WRC experience that sold me on them too. Never tried Ohlins bike stuff... It's good they're getting this feedback now. Their shaky start put me off if I'm honest. Their car stuff is great. ETA I'd like to try a car with some EXT dampers based on their bike stuff. Latest Ohlins air forks (last couple of years) have been excellent. As you say, some problems initially, but they are super supple but have an uncanny knack of giving you enough support to avoid diving other forks can get. Deal with big hits too. Only once ever bottomed mine out, on a very steep drop, poorly executed.

TDT said: Will be very interested to read your review on these, as I did see when 9e posted that they had recently done this. So..... T if you're at all interested given the above - at risk of indulging in some self justification obviously because one tends to want to validate splurging a reasonable chunk of cash.... but the tractives were I think bloody good at Silverstone today. Had thought at the ring in May that there was going to be plenty of grip available (which for various reasons I wasn going to try to explore in my first trackday there since 2018....) but much the same impression again today where I was a little happier to try to mess around.... Anyway to save on waffling and cut it short, thought the new damping made a significant difference I have to say and given the 'road' improvements I had already observed, it's actually quite a bit better over OEM on track as well. Much more settled and only when I (delibrately) provoked the car did it do anything funny (not withstanding a near final session red flag I caused by chucking the car into becketts on cold tyres and spinning but that was my own damned fault but did avoid the walk of shame as the car did restart after a few tries and the session even restarted 10 mins before 1700!). Can't say it's better than a friend's 997.1rs that I had tried years ago in germany on Ohlins TTX (which was absolutely mindblowingly good I might add) but it was almost a little reminiscient of that so am pretty happy with that. Will need to get Lasource a couple of laps in it to see what he thinks pronto as well but couldn't get things to work today as he's got more important things to do like ZV... .