Which 911 suits?? - Page 2 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Probably a question you'll hear all to frequently. I'm currently an owner of an e9x M3 and a secondary dedicated "fun/weekend" drivers car (r26). At the end of summer I'm going to be seeking to sell both and buy my 911 (dream car for me). I'm, for a time, going to be down to a single car again. And whilst I don't commute as such. I do drive to meetings and do the school runs. So alas a GT3 is out of the question though it will always remain/be my halo car. I wonder then which 911 would be the best choice. There are so many derivatives it's hard to know all the differences. My initial want was black 997.2 c4s. Manual (though pdk could speak to daily uses) With PSE.. Black leather, cruise and xenon's.. Would this be driver focused enough or just too much traction to really enjoy that sublime chassis? I'm which case. What is the best drivers spec whilst remaining child (tween girls) friendly? Budget? Well that will be car specific. For ref i could by the GT3 if I could use it. So horses for courses. Right now I want to understand spec then I'll look at what that will cost me Thanks Steve

I would forget about 4 wheel drive on a 911 if you want driver interaction as broadly this numbs the steering feel increases overall weight road noise and fuel consumption.

I’d say a 2WD GTS. Personally, it would be the 991.1 as a complete package as an every day car, but a 997.2 would be even more involving.

I’d go 997.2 Carrera S or standard Carrera (but with PASM and PSE if you can find one). They’re modern enough but with an old school whiff about them & therefore just that bit more special than some of the newer stuff . The 991 series onwards have EPS which isn’t quite as involving, but they’re slightly larger inside and probably easier to use as a daily driver. Check underside condition on any car, a lot of parts corrode and even if you buy from a Porsche Dealer with their (decent) warranty, these items will not be covered. It can be a £2k - £3k bill of everything needs replacing, but about half that at an independent Porsche workshop. PDK is decent, but obviously the manual is again a bit more involving and gives another level of interaction with the car.

stevekoz said: My initial want was black 997.2 c4s. Manual (though pdk could speak to daily uses) With PSE.. Black leather, cruise and xenon's.. Would this be driver focused enough or just too much traction to really enjoy that sublime chassis? I'm which case. What is the best drivers spec whilst remaining child (tween girls) friendly? Budget? Well that will be car specific. For ref i could by the GT3 if I could use it. So horses for courses. Right now I want to understand spec then I'll look at what that will cost me Thanks Steve 4 wheel drive in a 997? Consider a 997.2 C2 GTS... such as... https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202205225... ...but know that that one was recently sold on Collecting Cars for 70k (plus commission), just sharing it as an example.

Can you not retro fit rear seats and seat belts in a 997.1 Gt3? I looked at doing this myself ( back when they were )55k ) I think that is the oldest model you can do it in (997.2 GT3 single skin rear floor plan so a no go?). As others have said 2 wheel drive preference. 997.2 with sorted suspension would make a nice focused drivers car IMO.

I would agree with some other posters here, I've owned a 997.2 C2 GTS for nearly two years and it's a superb car - perfect amount of power/economy, genuinely analogue, the ideal size for B-roads and the brakes and handling are sublime. (I have a 991.2 GT3 too - both are manual - and the GTS still impresses even up against its more bonkers stablemate.)

Royal Jelly said: I’d say a 2WD GTS. Personally, it would be the 991.1 as a complete package as an every day car, but a 997.2 would be even more involving. 991.1 GTS 2WD would be my pick without a doubt. Long money though, so not sure of OP's budget.

I would go for a C2 997.2 GTS, but would also be tempted by a 991.2 T, especially a litchfield one https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13257728

stevekoz said: Probably a question you'll hear all to frequently. I'm currently an owner of an e9x M3 and a secondary dedicated "fun/weekend" drivers car (r26). At the end of summer I'm going to be seeking to sell both and buy my 911 (dream car for me). I'm, for a time, going to be down to a single car again. And whilst I don't commute as such. I do drive to meetings and do the school runs. So alas a GT3 is out of the question though it will always remain/be my halo car. I wonder then which 911 would be the best choice. There are so many derivatives it's hard to know all the differences. My initial want was black 997.2 c4s. Manual (though pdk could speak to daily uses) With PSE.. Black leather, cruise and xenon's.. Would this be driver focused enough or just too much traction to really enjoy that sublime chassis? I'm which case. What is the best drivers spec whilst remaining child (tween girls) friendly? Budget? Well that will be car specific. For ref i could by the GT3 if I could use it. So horses for courses. Right now I want to understand spec then I'll look at what that will cost me Thanks Steve You don't want too focused like a GT3 but you worry about it not being focused enough. I have not driven a GT3 so I have no idea how focused one of these is. I'm currently driving a modified 2001 996 which is about as focused as you could make one of these. Stiff coilovers with low ride height and aero package which scrapes on most speed bumps. Fixed bucket seats with no back seats but that's easily changed. The main challenge is the lightweight flywheel and racey clutch which makes standing starts a bit tricky unless you're concentrating. So what's the point. Well I'm loving it. I drive it as often as possible. I will admit its not my only car but I'm sure I can imagine a world where it is my only car. So if you want focused why compromise. Get a focused car and just drive the thing. How hard can it be? I will also add that almost any 911 from 996 era through to today will have way too much grip to enjoy on roads without being a bit silly - unless you're a driving god. The benefit of choosing a simple 996 is that you can downsize the wheels and tyres to 17 inch with very skinny 205 front tyres. This makes a big difference from the default 18 inch size most people use. On a 997 most people run 19 inch which means at least a massive 295 rear tyre. The smaller skinny tyres on my car allow you to feel the car shifting around under you without achieving warp factor 9. But it still has way more grip than my brain can understand. Most people who know these cars well will tell you the early 996 is the most focused of all the water cooled cars. But you won't find a plentiful supply of C2 manual coupes for sale. When you look you will see you can buy a reasonably nice basic standard early 3.4 996 for about 20 grand. This is mine

GT6 Jonsey said: I would go for a C2 997.2 GTS, but would also be tempted by a 991.2 T, especially a litchfield one https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13257728 I’ve changed my mind…..buy this! Great find

MrVert said: GT6 Jonsey said: I would go for a C2 997.2 GTS, but would also be tempted by a 991.2 T, especially a litchfield one https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/13257728 I’ve changed my mind…..buy this! Great find it is ace but its got rear seat delete so no good for the search criteria....needs rear seats for their kids.

I have a e9x M3 as well as a 997.2 GTS and think you’ll find that a nice step up. 997.2 C2 or C2S would do the job also for less cash and easier to find.

Crazy prices for a 997 GTS particularly in manual (£85k) with very limited availability. Is it really worth the (not insubstantial!) premium over the C2S, especially as it is not a ‘GT’ car? Am I missing something? It’s an X51 power kit on a Carrera S motor, different suspension? Center locks? Couple of interior bits and that’s it?

I’d say when new it was a complete no brainier to get the GTS. At todays premiums, a C2S with a few tweaks would probably be the wiser choice. You’d hardly notice the extra power on the road. The GTS cars are brilliant packages but not sure if worth a £20k premium. Still, a manual C2 GTS is pretty much guaranteed future rarity and therefore a safe place for your money I suspect, if that’s important to you..

ATM said: You don't want too focused like a GT3 but you worry about it not being focused enough. I have not driven a GT3 so I have no idea how focused one of these is. I'm currently driving a modified 2001 996 which is about as focused as you could make one of these. Stiff coilovers with low ride height and aero package which scrapes on most speed bumps. Fixed bucket seats with no back seats but that's easily changed. The main challenge is the lightweight flywheel and racey clutch which makes standing starts a bit tricky unless you're concentrating. So what's the point. Well I'm loving it. I drive it as often as possible. I will admit its not my only car but I'm sure I can imagine a world where it is my only car. So if you want focused why compromise. Get a focused car and just drive the thing. How hard can it be? I will also add that almost any 911 from 996 era through to today will have way too much grip to enjoy on roads without being a bit silly - unless you're a driving god. The benefit of choosing a simple 996 is that you can downsize the wheels and tyres to 17 inch with very skinny 205 front tyres. This makes a big difference from the default 18 inch size most people use. On a 997 most people run 19 inch which means at least a massive 295 rear tyre. The smaller skinny tyres on my car allow you to feel the car shifting around under you without achieving warp factor 9. But it still has way more grip than my brain can understand. Most people who know these cars well will tell you the early 996 is the most focused of all the water cooled cars. But you won't find a plentiful supply of C2 manual coupes for sale. When you look you will see you can buy a reasonably nice basic standard early 3.4 996 for about 20 grand. This is mine Think i need to clarify my original post - i'd love a GT3 and could quite happily, ecstatically buy and love it - but then my kids would have to walk everywhere. As stated, it will be my only car for some time. I love a focussed drivers car, so being as i need a rear bench for the kids 3-5 days a week. Then i can't obvs use GT3 as much as i want one. So it was really an ask about what would be the best focussed car given i know it won't be as focussed as a GT3. So what is the best compromise between everyday and focus. Having not had a 911 before, in any guise, i wasn't sure if the car is compromised by the 4wd aspect in the c4s vs its "imagined" all year useability. Hence asking, what would be the best spec and it seems the consensus to be the GTS. Which is within budget, whilst mainly PDK cars for sale at the moment, i'm sure that wouldn't be a hardship.

stevekoz said: Think i need to clarify my original post - i'd love a GT3 and could quite happily, ecstatically buy and love it - but then my kids would have to walk everywhere. As stated, it will be my only car for some time. I love a focussed drivers car, so being as i need a rear bench for the kids 3-5 days a week. Then i can't obvs use GT3 as much as i want one. So it was really an ask about what would be the best focussed car given i know it won't be as focussed as a GT3. So what is the best compromise between everyday and focus. Having not had a 911 before, in any guise, i wasn't sure if the car is compromised by the 4wd aspect in the c4s vs its "imagined" all year useability. Hence asking, what would be the best spec and it seems the consensus to be the GTS. Which is within budget, whilst mainly PDK cars for sale at the moment, i'm sure that wouldn't be a hardship. You can add back seats to a GT3 if it doesn't already have them. Its the same body shell as a vanilla 911. So all seats etc are interchangeable. If you want all year round usability I would not bother with a 4wd. Just buy some winter tyres and you will be fine with a 2wd. As mentioned the 997 comes with 19 inch tyres in a minimum of 295 wide. So any amount of snow and it is game over. I would not drive a 911 in winter without winter tyres.

MrVert said: I’d say when new it was a complete no brainier to get the GTS. At todays premiums, a C2S with a few tweaks would probably be the wiser choice. You’d hardly notice the extra power on the road. The GTS cars are brilliant packages but not sure if worth a £20k premium. Still, a manual C2 GTS is pretty much guaranteed future rarity and therefore a safe place for your money I suspect, if that’s important to you.. Recently sold my Manual 997.2 GTS, owned it for six years. They're great road cars as witnessed in this thread....one of those Porsche's that are better than the sum of their parts. Powerkit changes the nature of the engine, combine that with the manual gearbox and you have a car that loves revs and rewards you for taking the engine to the red line in a way the standard car doesn't. Wider rear track and a slightly stiffer front suspension also give it a different feel to a Carrera S. On paper is it worth more than a Carrera S ? No. But the market speaks pretty loudly when it comes to the manual 997 GTS. When I bought mine the manual was actually cheaper than the PDK but as the PDK has aged and people have got the manual bug people now understand the car. Best water-cooled 911 this side of a GT3 to hustle down a country lane ? I think it probably is. Maybe the 991.2 GTS runs it close..but steering isn't as good and the gearbox isn't great...and it's a turbo. 991.1 the steering and gearbox are worse then the .2 but it is NASP.

I'll provide a contrarian view... don't discount 4wd. I'd suggest anyone ruling out "any 4wd 911" simply don't know what they're talking about. For one thing, there is a substantial difference within 911 generations and the system used, therefore generalisations shows lack of depth. While a 4wd 964 might be "questionable", in a 997 or 991 there is much less impact on the driving experience. Unless of course you're Lewis Hamilton or Chris Harris and will be able to tell the difference...

Nothing below in the 911 range comes close to the GT3…it’s all about THAT engine…do it! Thread below that looks at adding rear seats through JZM, picture extracted from thread. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

ATM said: I would not drive a 911 in winter without winter tyres. I did try it in 2005 and trust me it was awful.

ATM said: You can add back seats to a GT3 if it doesn't already have them. Its the same body shell as a vanilla 911. So all seats etc are interchangeable. If you want all year round usability I would not bother with a 4wd. Just buy some winter tyres and you will be fine with a 2wd. As mentioned the 997 comes with 19 inch tyres in a minimum of 295 wide. So any amount of snow and it is game over. I would not drive a 911 in winter without winter tyres. I had read that you "could" do it on the 997.1 but it wasn't a great idea due to the anchor points and on the 997.2 you really shouldn't as they don't have any mounting points at all. From my research, it does not seem to be the same body/floor plan as the rest of the 911 range. Plus, not sure i'd want to have a 3rd Party modify the floor plan of a gt3 to fit seats - i'd be worrying that seatbelt or seat mounts would fail and its not like you have any come back if they do - your money/your risk?? Maybe i'm just too cautious i don't know - i'll do some reading up on it beyond what i already have. The GTS seems to remain the car people would choose. I understand the need for good winter tyres - that goes for most cars. My quattro wasn't as good in snow as everyone used to assume it would be - the tyres make all the difference. Likewise on the m3 i have now - tyres make all the difference in anything other than dry. I think the next step is to go and drive both the 4s and GTS back to back to get an idea of what compromises i would be making, one to the other. I know my local dealer has a crayon grey GTS in stock not sure about a 4s.

Worth mentioning that even without rear seats the floor of a 996 or 997 is perfectly shaped as if for 2 seats. The seat base just velcros to the carpet. It's basically just a thin piece of leather. All you really need anchoring is the seat belt and the backrest. The back rest of the seat is only about 6 inches high. The rest of the seat is formed by the carpeted floor which like i say all these cars have. So even without the actual seats you have a pretty good seat already. Not suggesting you risk it without seats obviously. I assumed its simple to just bolt in the seats. I wasn't aware that the anchor points are not already attached to the car.

Having only driven a 996.2 C2, I can’t really say what car you would most enjoy. However, having been cramed in back of various water cooled 911s, I will say that your kids will find the back seats of a 996 or 997 miserable for most journeys, unless they have a high tolerance for discomfort and a love of sports cars. Getting a lift in the back of my uncle’s 991.1 GTS as a 13-year-old was pretty miserable, and while your kids may be younger or smaller than I was then, I don’t doubt that they’ll find it cramped and uncomfortable. Sorry to bring boring practicalities into it. On the fun front, I do think that you can tell a dynamic difference between a 997.2 C2S and C4S from the passenger seat, so transposing that to a drivers perspective I imagine a C2/S/GTS would be more engaging than their AWD counterparts.

Are you sure that you want to do the school run in a 911? In my experience a 2 door is a pita with more than one passenger on anything other than very occasional use.