A bit of 996 buying advice please. - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

Hi all I'm currently driving myself mad trying to find a 996. Budget is about £14k so there's plenty of choice it's just finding the right car. It's very tempting to push for a 3.6 as there are a few leggy ish examples in budget. A few questions: Am I better to try and get a 3.6 over a 3.4? From what I've read the 3.4 seems to be a slightly safer bet on the scored bores front. Am I wrong in thinking this? The 3.6 I looked at yesterday worried me slightly. Upon startup there was some (not a lot) of blue smoke from the near side exhaust. There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The car has been stationary for a while. Do I need to worry about it or is it something that should clear after a decent run? The car has excellent dealer history so you'd hope that would help prevent the dreaded scored bores. The 3.4 I'm looking at today has the GT3 aero kit on it. Looks nice although I'd quite like to remove the rear wing in favour of a standard item. Is this a big job assuming I can acquire the parts?? Any recommendations of any cars out there? I'll happily travel a good way for the right car. Cheers Matt

I suggest you speak to Baz/Grant at Hartech as one of the reputable engine rebuild specialists...the ticking noise is something my BIL had on his 997 & it was a costly bill. As for removing the aero kit wing, you will need a complete replacement engine cover though you might be able to find a painted replacement that can be bolted on without too much cost. I'd strongly recommend that although you don't like the wing, that you dont sell it separately as there is a following for aero kit equipped cars & given many buyers are looking for originalility (mine was one of the exceptions) they might expect that all the original main "kit" is still on the car unless it is a replacement for wear and tear purposes...I had one and one of the reasons the PHer bought it from me was the Hartech engine and the aero kit (mine had the engine done before I got it BTW. The alternative, if you don't like the big wing, might be to go for a ducktail replacement instead? Good luck with your search, there are plenty of cars out there & as the sun comes out, more will come to the market

Trev450 said: The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the n/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. I thought it was the offside bank and the nearside exhaust. Either way, blue smoke from only one bank suggests problems. I would try to fine another that doesn't smoke.

JM1962 said: Trev450 said: The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the n/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. I thought it was the offside bank and the nearside exhaust. Either way, blue smoke from only one bank suggests problems. I would try to fine another that doesn't smoke. My bad - senior moment!! Yes it's the O/S bank that is the most prone which is the one the op mentions is ticking.

Dixie said: There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the o/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 8th March 13:30

The 996 exhaust crosses over so it would be the n/s exhaust for the o/s bank.

Wouldn't even bother with a boroscope, just find another one which doesn't have blue smoke, there's plenty of options out there. And either get one with a factory aerokit or without, mixing bits and pieces is a bit frowned upon as most people aim for originality.

Hmmm. Such a shame as the car is pretty much a perfect fit. I did get a feeling that the dealer just wanted rid of the car. I'm guessing we're talking £5k plus to resolve it properly? Drove a 99v plate c4 today. On paper it looked very good but was far tattier than its mileage and receipts suggested it should be. It had the sports seats fitted but the heated function didn't work. Nor did the memory function. Boot/bonnet release trim came off in my hand. The accelerator had a lateral wobble. And there was a strong smell of hot rubber when we returned from the test ride. Oh and the aero kit just didn't seem right. The rear wing was gt2 ish. All looked a little after market. I'm all for keeping it as it left the factory. http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... If only I'd bought the first car I drove. It ticked all the boxes but annoyingly got sold whilst I was away on holiday. Fingers crossed for the next one. Which to be fair sounds spot on.

You get used to the hot rubber smell.

Dixie said: Am I better to try and get a 3.6 over a 3.4? From what I've read the 3.4 seems to be a slightly safer bet on the scored bores front. Am I wrong in thinking this? The 3.6 I looked at yesterday worried me slightly. Upon startup there was some (not a lot) of blue smoke from the near side exhaust. There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The car has been stationary for a while. Do I need to worry about it or is it something that should clear after a decent run? The car has excellent dealer history so you'd hope that would help prevent the dreaded scored bores. You should have answered your own question. You should have subjected the car to a decent run, within reason. You should had the seller take you on a test drive then a test ride. The route should be 15 miles in length and give the driver a chance to demo the car in a variety of driving scenarios. You want to experience the car like you intend to use it. After the test ride back at the starting point -- never shutting off the engine -- then you take the car out as the driver and cover the same route, drive the car the same way. If there had been any issues the odds are they would have made themselves known during this test ride/drive. And you would know if the slight ticking would have cleared after a decent run. Even if you had decided to not buy the car you would have gained some experience in how to check out a used Porsche.

anonymous said: [redacted] There are certainly plenty of scruffy ones out there but, personally, I think the advantages of a 3.4 (reputedly a lower IMS failure rate, no bore-scoring) outweigh the hassles of trying to find a good one. It took me a while, and I saw lots of dogs, but I found a very tidy 3.4 in the end and I'm extremely happy with it. Haven't had my first bill yet though...

Dixie said: It had the sports seats fitted but the heated function didn't work. Nor did the memory function. Sports seats don't/can't have the memory function, and that looks like a Misha rear wing , definitely not a genuine Porsche item. The Factory rear wings looked like this (996.1 only) or (996.1 & 996.2) (I have one of these for sale if interested)

jimbobs said: There are certainly plenty of scruffy ones out there but, personally, I think the advantages of a 3.4 (reputedly a lower IMS failure rate, no bore-scoring) outweigh the hassles of trying to find a good one. It took me a while, and I saw lots of dogs, but I found a very tidy 3.4 in the end and I'm extremely happy with it. Haven't had my first bill yet though... It would seem that the earlier 996s are the least likely to keep me awake at night. It seems like whatever I buy I'm going to need to set up a Hartech savings account up just in case the apparent inevitable happens. Any owners out there that have enjoyed 1000s of happy problem free motoring in a 996 feel free to chip in and tell me everything is going to be OK!! There are some right???? Whats the reasoning behind the rubber smell? Is it a case of they all do that?

Dixie said: It would seem that the earlier 996s are the least likely to keep me awake at night. It seems like whatever I buy I'm going to need to set up a Hartech savings account up just in case the apparent inevitable happens. Any owners out there that have enjoyed 1000s of happy problem free motoring in a 996 feel free to chip in and tell me everything is going to be OK!! There are some right???? Whats the reasoning behind the rubber smell? Is it a case of they all do that? Had my 3.4 for 5.5yrs, now on approx 89k mls & no problems so far... That rubber/hot oil smell panics you to start with doesn't it! Yes, they all do that Sir (as far as I know anyway).

monthefish said: Sports seats don't/can't have the memory function, and that looks like a Misha rear wing , definitely not a genuine Porsche item. The Factory rear wings looked like this (996.1 only) or (996.1 & 996.2) (I have one of these for sale if interested) I wasn't convinced the wing was a standard item. The skirts looked a little non oem too upon closer inspection. There were a lot of question marks around that car actually. The instrument cluster cover was clearly a tan coloured item that had been attempted to be recoloured black. The seats also just weren't right (Why would Porsche fit heated seat and memory buttons when the seats don't have those features. It really felt very tired for it's 70k miles. Definitely crossed off the list. monthefish, please send me some details of what you've got. I'm a fair way from you but i can travel if it's the right car. Dear god you really are a long way away!!

Dixie said: Whats the reasoning behind the rubber smell? Is it a case of they all do that? Hot exhausts right behind the tyres.

Do it! I was looking for a 996 for 6 months did loads of research read loads on the ims fail, but you must remember people only whine if somthing is broken so think about the thousands of others than haven't. I went for a 3.4 as reading up them seem more reliable and after driving the one I bought it had a fabspeed exhaust so the noise was amazing and I was hooked. Keep some of your budget aside for any unforeseeable problems. After a month of having mine the rack started leaking and I was left with a hefty bill. If you don't like the aero boot you could sell this on or px for standard they are worth good money

Do it! I was looking for a 996 for 6 months did loads of research read loads on the ims fail, but you must remember people only whine if somthing is broken so think about the thousands of others than haven't. I went for a 3.4 as reading up them seem more reliable and after driving the one I bought it had a fabspeed exhaust so the noise was amazing and I was hooked. Keep some of your budget aside for any unforeseeable problems. After a month of having mine the rack started leaking and I was left with a hefty bill. If you don't like the aero boot you could sell this on or px for standard they are worth good money

Dixie said: Any owners out there that have enjoyed 1000s of happy problem free motoring in a 996 feel free to chip in and tell me everything is going to be OK!! There are some right???? Quite often do a couple of thousand miles a week in mine. Well over 200K miles now, all still working perfectly well, original engine and box (neither have ever been opened). Gets a few track days a year too. Needs some top mounts and is coming up to it's second clutch replacement soon but it just keeps going. Engine is starting to show a little wear as it has 10 seconds or so of rattle from a cold start but has managed over 20K miles since this started without any further problems and oil consumption is still very, very low (250ml per thousand miles or so) and makes a hair over standard power on the dyno..... I put that down to experience It's the most reliable thing (not just car but anything) I have ever owned and I don't even look after it that well!

poppopbangbang said: Quite often do a couple of thousand miles a week in mine. Well over 200K miles now, ...... It's the most reliable thing (not just car but anything) I have ever owned and I don't even look after it that well! Is yours a GT3 or Carrera(/C4)?

anonymous said: [redacted] I really like that. Although it kind of goes against buying a clean original example. It's an awful lot of red inside but i think i can get used to that. It's a hell of a trek away but it's definitely one to consider. If I can sell the other car privately I'll make some inquires. Nice to here the happy stories of trouble free ownership. It's so easy to only read the negative tales and get a bit deflated.

anonymous said: [redacted] Great looking car. GT3 rear spoiler, painted tunnel and Black steering wheel. Job done.

Dixie said: anonymous said: [redacted] I really like that. Although it kind of goes against buying a clean original example. It's an awful lot of red inside but i think i can get used to that. It's a hell of a trek away but it's definitely one to consider. If I can sell the other car privately I'll make some inquires. Nice to here the happy stories of trouble free ownership. It's so easy to only read the negative tales and get a bit deflated. That looks a nice car and personally I like the colour combo. Good cars eventually will start to go up in value on the early cars

Trev450 said: Dixie said: There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the o/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 8th March 13:30 Can someone explain the correlation between scored bores and a ticking noise?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Thoughts on this?? Very tempted (wife really want a cab). They'll ship the car up to Notts if i place a £500 refundable deposit. Has anyone had any dealing with these guys?

monthefish said: Trev450 said: Dixie said: There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the o/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 8th March 13:30 Can someone explain the correlation between scored bores and a ticking noise? Essentially, it is the piston tilting and the top tapping against the cylinder head as it passes over TDC.

monthefish said: Can someone explain the correlation between scored bores and a ticking noise? From what I understand the scoring occurs when the piston skirt has enough lateral movement to be able to contact the cylinder wall. This is made possible by the coating on the cylinder lining being eroded away. This starts out as a ticking and I imagine progresses into a thumping great mess of a nightmare that causes you to wake up in a cold sweat at night. Either that or a noisy tappet...

anonymous said: [redacted] I don't want a Boxster. I get that the cabs are less of a drivers car and all that but in reality I'll be driving to work and back or dropping the kids or at school (another reason for a 911). As much as I'd love to track it it's highly unlikely I'll be using it to it's absolute limits. And since the wife wants a 335i over a 911 it's a compromise I'm willing to take.

Trev450 said: monthefish said: Trev450 said: Dixie said: There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the o/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 8th March 13:30 Can someone explain the correlation between scored bores and a ticking noise? Essentially, it is the piston tilting and the top tapping against the cylinder head as it passes over TDC. Surely it'd have to be one helluva score to allow the piston to tilt enough to contact the cylinder head? Ovaling of cylinder I could understand.

monthefish said: Trev450 said: monthefish said: Trev450 said: Dixie said: There was also a slight ticking from the off side bank. The ticking can be a symptom of borescoring and the o/s is the bank that is most prone. As cmoose says, have it boroscoped or walk away. Edited by Trev450 on Sunday 8th March 13:30 Can someone explain the correlation between scored bores and a ticking noise? Essentially, it is the piston tilting and the top tapping against the cylinder head as it passes over TDC. Surely it'd have to be one helluva score to allow the piston to tilt enough to contact the cylinder head? Ovaling of cylinder I could understand. This is the explanation that Baz at Hartech gives and far be it from me to contradict the sage of bore scoring!

Dixie said: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Thoughts on this?? Very tempted (wife really want a cab). They'll ship the car up to Notts if i place a £500 refundable deposit. Has anyone had any dealing with these guys? A 996 of the age in question should really have been serviced every year, unless there is a very good reason why not? - The ad mentions 10 services (I think) & it's a 15 yr old car. It's worth looking at the history with the car & the Online MOT history to see whether the car was laid up or did very few miles over a period of yrs, which might explain the number of services as some are only used as summer cars (SORN paperwork might give a clue if it's available). Also see what big ticket repair items gave been done in the last 3 yrs I.e full brakes; A/c replacement; coffin arms (they squeak when needing replacement) & also have a good look underneath at the exhaust boxes & see if they are rotting on the joins? A replacement aftermarket pair of boxes will cost at least £600 plus fitting & replacement clamps. Just because the sun is now showing a more regular appearance, don't get overexcited when viewing....if necessary take an impartial friend who can look at the car without emotion! A quick question....have you thought about a Targa instead which offers much of the open air practicality without the loss of rear seat space? - Targas are an acquired taste though a friend has had one for approaching 4 yrs & it's a great car.

anonymous said: [redacted] But it doesn't have rear seats. It's not that I don't like them I just don't wnt one. . And a 335 is not the car I want either. Plus all the other reasons I want a 911 over a 335 (hardly a safe bet either). I haven't just stumbled into this decision. When I sold my elise it was with a view to replace it with a 911. Maybe I'm just scratching an itch. But a 911 is something I've wanted for a very long time.

MrC986 said: A 996 of the age in question should really have been serviced every year, unless there is a very good reason why not? - The ad mentions 10 services (I think) & it's a 15 yr old car. It's worth looking at the history with the car & the Online MOT history to see whether the car was laid up or did very few miles over a period of yrs, which might explain the number of services as some are only used as summer cars (SORN paperwork might give a clue if it's available). Also see what big ticket repair items gave been done in the last 3 yrs I.e full brakes; A/c replacement; coffin arms (they squeak when needing replacement) & also have a good look underneath at the exhaust boxes & see if they are rotting on the joins? A replacement aftermarket pair of boxes will cost at least £600 plus fitting & replacement clamps. Just because the sun is now showing a more regular appearance, don't get overexcited when viewing....if necessary take an impartial friend who can look at the car without emotion! A quick question....have you thought about a Targa instead which offers much of the open air practicality without the loss of rear seat space? - Targas are an acquired taste though a friend has had one for approaching 4 yrs & it's a great car. The history is something I'll be able to see when I view the car. I'm hoping they'll be a huge stack of reciipts with the car as there has been with the others ive seen. I think I'll be more comfortable driving the extra 40 miles to Peterborough rather than having to fork out £500 and them having an ability to keep me hanging on if the car isnt right. I do like the targas and would be more than happy with one if the right car came up. The first car we viewed was a cab and the Mrs was quite taken. I'm happy with any shape (coupe would be my preference) but it's not just my car. I am quite partial to a cabriolet as well mind. I'll add the points you raised to the ever increasing list. Not heard off he coffin arms. I'll google that now. What os usually replaced on the ac? Edited by Dixie on Tuesday 10th March 20:30

I bought a 90k 996 3.4 Carrera 6 months ago. Cost £10k. Sports exhaust, LSD, M030 suspension. It's been nothing but a pleasure to own and drive. I did a few things: 1) Waited (and passed on a number of appealing cars) until i found one that had been looked after by someone who (i could tell) loved the car, and had really looked after it. Absolutely had to have a Full Service History 2) Ignored everything i'd read on the internet 3) Bought it with my eyes open 4) Realised that the very, very, very VERY worst case scenario, i'd become one of the minute %'age of owners who have to spend another £10k to get a 3.9 litre upgrade from Autofarm, meaning for £20,000 i get one of the greatest cars ever made. And no, i don't care abut the headlights... And trust me, your well cared for 996 will be worth more than £20,000 in the future My advice: Buy right, and you'll never use this forum again - you'll be too busy driving the arse off of your new 911. Good luck! Dan

Dixie - at worst the AC condenser & rads can need replacing - the rads collect crap where they are situated at the front of the car & unless they are cleaned regularly, they will rot/leak, ditto the condenser. The coffin arm bushes hardened/shrink & cause movement & noise, as well as affecting the suspension setup. You are right to read up, down load one of the buyers' guides & if necessary get a specialist to check it over. A good car will be gently warmed up before being given the "full beans" as well.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...

Cmoose - You may be right - it certainly used to be near to £10K! Either way, rebuilds are possible, and will result in a future proof car. I just love the 996. I've owned various other 911's and it's easily the best all-rounder - especially for the money. I'd hate for internet forums to stop people taking the plunge!

Ive bought a 996 3.4 R reg 1998 with aero kit I ignored most of the horror stories, I've had 2 people offer to buy it if I get bored with it. There are some great ones out there. Hopefully this weekend ill be retrofitting the OBC :-) If you get one enjoy it, I also get a burning rubber smell.....

thegoose said: Is yours a GT3 or Carrera(/C4)? C4 3.4.

528Sport said: Ive bought a 996 3.4 R reg 1998 with aero kit Hopefully this weekend ill be retrofitting the OBC :-) Ah yes, i need to get this done on mine as well, is it reasonably straightforward?

528Sport said: Ive bought a 996 3.4 R reg 1998 with aero kit I ignored most of the horror stories, I've had 2 people offer to buy it if I get bored with it. There are some great ones out there. Hopefully this weekend ill be retrofitting the OBC :-) If you get one enjoy it, I also get a burning rubber smell..... Looks great. Enjoy.

Gulp. Bought one. 99 c4 coupe. 60k with perfect service history. 2 owners. Silver with black leather. It's by far the best one I've driven. Roll on next Saturday.

[Image-only or quote-only post; no author-written text.] http://thumbsnap.com/sc/fFpdhTAS.jpg

There's a set of gt3 wheels I'm looking at on eBay. Although I don't mind the standard ones.

Dixie said: There's a set of gt3 wheels I'm looking at on eBay. Although I don't mind the standard ones. Nightmare to clean, but look fantastic

monthefish said: Dixie said: There's a set of gt3 wheels I'm looking at on eBay. Although I don't mind the standard ones. Nightmare to clean, but look fantastic

anonymous said: [redacted] I had a lovely very late 3.6 996. Owned it for 2 years and in that time spent a fair few quid on it. It was always a second car, used in the summer at weekends. It was an enjoyable ownership experience being my first Porsche. Previously i had always had cabs and started looking at 996 cabs. Late last year i borrowed a Boxster for the weekend, wasn't expecting much. Cutting a long story short the 996 has now been sold and i have a late low mileage 986s Boxster in my garage. It is a very high spec and cost just under half what i got for the 996. I find it overall a much better car as a weekend toy and for what i require is also a much more 'fun' driving experience. The 996 was a wonderful car and i am glad i ticked that box but for me i had to really drive it hard to get any sort of 'fun' from it which sooner or later was going to cost me my license! I have completed 2 hard track days in the Boxster and it has performed faultless. So i would also say anyone wanting a cab, as long as you can live with the snobbery don't dismiss a Boxster, they are brilliant cars and fantastic value for money.

M3333 said: anonymous said: [redacted] I had a lovely very late 3.6 996. Owned it for 2 years and in that time spent a fair few quid on it. It was always a second car, used in the summer at weekends. It was an enjoyable ownership experience being my first Porsche. Previously i had always had cabs and started looking at 996 cabs. Late last year i borrowed a Boxster for the weekend, wasn't expecting much. Cutting a long story short the 996 has now been sold and i have a late low mileage 986s Boxster in my garage. It is a very high spec and cost just under half what i got for the 996. I find it overall a much better car as a weekend toy and for what i require is also a much more 'fun' driving experience. The 996 was a wonderful car and i am glad i ticked that box but for me i had to really drive it hard to get any sort of 'fun' from it which sooner or later was going to cost me my license! I have completed 2 hard track days in the Boxster and it has performed faultless. So i would also say anyone wanting a cab, as long as you can live with the snobbery don't dismiss a Boxster, they are brilliant cars and fantastic value for money. Definitely. Easier to park outside your hair salon also. ( )

monthefish said: Looks great. Enjoy. thanks

pat_y said: 528Sport said: Ive bought a 996 3.4 R reg 1998 with aero kit Hopefully this weekend ill be retrofitting the OBC :-) Ah yes, i need to get this done on mine as well, is it reasonably straightforward? drop me a pm and i'll walk you thru the process. Dave

Ticking - does it sound like piston slap? Could be a very worn bore. Also get an inspection done and always a borescope.

monthefish said: Definitely. Easier to park outside your hair salon also. ( ) You bastid Nice car OP, enjoy