Cayman £10k or £20k what would you do - Page 3 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

In the market for a second sports/weekend fun car and I've pretty much narrowed it down to a Cayman. Budget is up to £20k, would you: 1. Follow the 'poverty pork' approach (great thread but I don't want a boxster) so look for one like, this: early 987.1 S, big miles, but seems to have fairly decent history: http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015... 2. Or max out my budget and squeeze into a Gen 2 http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... Views? Obviously on the Gen 1 I'm well aware of IMS, RMS, Bore Scoring etc - will most likely get a pre-purchase inspection and willing to take the risk at closer to £10k. thanks

is a Cayman really a "second sports/weekend fun car " ? why not get a boxster if it's for weekends ? night time driving roof off in the summer is one of those amazing things

Fair question. I'm generally not a massive fan of convertibles, I have owned one. And it'll be parked on an inner city street so security/vandalism issues, plus at around 10 years old the soft top will need quite a bit of maintenance or degrade. I've contemplated the 'poverty pork' 986 approach (for £5-6k) but I'm 6 foot 4 and find the cabin too small. If I'm going 987 boxster then it might as well be cayman...

Personally I'd go, and did, gen 2. I predominantly went gen 2 because of the issues you highlight. In addition to this though I think the subtle exterior updates make it look a lot fresher, the interior is also nicer too. The other option you have is to go 2.7 gen 1 save lots of money and negate (most) of the issues of the gen 1 3.4.

PorscheGT4 said: is a Cayman really a "second sports/weekend fun car " ? why not get a boxster if it's for weekends ? night time driving roof off in the summer is one of those amazing things Especially if it's somewhere like the Highlands in Scotland, the Cotswolds, the Tuscan hills or the Sierra Nevada mountains in Spain (or California for that matter).

As you can stretch to it, I would recommend a Gen 2 Cayman. I had one and it was fantastic. I also had Gen 1 Boxsters and they were fab too but I would still go Cayman.

As you can stretch to it, I would recommend a Gen 2 Cayman. I had one and it was fantastic. I also had Gen 1 Boxsters and they were fab too but I would still go Cayman.

Gen 2 Cayman would be my choice given your budget. I have owned a Gen 1 for the last five years and am very happy with it, but the fear of an engine rebuild is always in the back of your mind.

Gen 2 personally I'd choose a Boxster over the Cayman as even in London it's great to get the top down on a summer night.

I'm running a Gen1 3.4 with 70k on the clock, it uses no oil and is an all round amazing car for less than the cost of a new Ford boringbox. That said, if you are finding any Cayman down towards £10k (your link didn't work for the cheaper car ) I'm going to guess it's properly at the bottom of the heap and some of the reliability reputation has to be true............. Buy the best you can, you won't be disappointed.

OK, I exaggerate slightly. Last oil change was for the 60k service and I think I've topped it up once since then, for sure no more than once. The level is currently still showing full so I guess it's fair to say no more then 1ltr per 10k which I'd consider very low for a flat engine. I would be happy enough with the recommended 20k servicing but I'm doing less mileage at the moment so I'll probably give it a treat while I'm off over christmas as it'll have been two years since the last one at 60k.

Forget the scaremongering about gen 1 engine problems. Think about it, people only generally write about their problems on forums and out of say 40,000 987.1 Caymans built you'll read of a handful in the forums where bore scoring was a problem. There will only be a very tiny percentage of cars with an issue but they are the ones people write about. If you read some of the stuff in the BMW or VW forums for example you'd be terrified of buying one but we all know how generally reliable they are. Get your dream car. Make sure it has a full history. Take out a warranty and enjoy it.

Gen 1 3.4 will blow up. Mind did twice! first time under warranty second time it wasn't. It will cost £10k to fix and its really sad as it can blow up even if looked after very well like my motor was. Great cars but unless Hartech fix it I wont take the risk. TBH one of the main reasons I opted for a 981. I don't trust the Gen 2. Great cars however and even now have 'looks' that are current.

anonymous said: [redacted] I'm pretty sure some of it is. Trotmant said: Gen 1 3.4 will blow up. Mind did twice! first time under warranty second time it wasn't. It will cost £10k to fix and its really sad as it can blow up even if looked after very well like my motor was. I'm not in denial that the problems exist but lets not be silly about the overall risks because of individual experiences, "it WILL blow up" etc. Really?

To answer the original question: buy the best car that you can afford - in this case a £20k ish gen 2 car. I'd be very worried about a 10k high miles Gen 1 - it's going to be leggy at probably building up problems that could cost you more than the £10k difference fairly quickly.

PorscheGT4 said: is a Cayman really a "second sports/weekend fun car " ? why not get a boxster if it's for weekends ? night time driving roof off in the summer is one of those amazing things Can be, my Cayman is the weekend garage queen, the Boxster sits out side and used as the DD, parked in station every day....

Steve H said: anonymous said: [redacted] I'm pretty sure some of it is. Trotmant said: Gen 1 3.4 will blow up. Mind did twice! first time under warranty second time it wasn't. It will cost £10k to fix and its really sad as it can blow up even if looked after very well like my motor was. I'm not in denial that the problems exist but lets not be silly about the overall risks because of individual experiences, "it WILL blow up" etc. Really? Cmoose was personnaly affected and one of a small exclusive club, a biased opinion shall we say. There are other sources of less biased views on the topic, give the experts a call if you're worried about bore scoring. Aside from that, would agree that the gen 2 is the choice is make (had both by the way) and prefer the slightly more modern car, although miss the angry wail from the gen 1 engine.

Cmoose is a bit like one of those ex-smokers. He read all the advice to never buy a 2006 Cayman S due to high risk of bore scoring. Despite that, bought one and you know the rest. That doesn't make him biased, just highly motivated.

I've just put down a deposit on a 2.9 cayman. For me, I completely discounted the gen 1 3.4. It seems impossible to gauge how wide spread the engine problems are, and even if relatively rare I don't want the worry in the back of my mind. I want to enjoy the car. It was either a 2.7 for about £15k, or a gen 2 car. I've been unable to find a sensibly priced gen 2 S, so decided to go for a 2.9. £22k for a 18k mile car with sports seats and extended leather, with 2 year porsche warranty for worry free motoring, can't wait to collect!

I would still suspect that the great majority of 987.1 Cayman S engines have not blown up (yet). So I do agree that there is an element of scaremongering. The engine is a pretty lovely thing in terms of sound and power delivery, and its raucousness suits the car.

anonymous said: [redacted] I quote this from directly from an article on the Hartech website....regarding the M97 engine. 'So just how good are they? Very good indeed. Forget wide ranging Internet criticism about a very small number of failures – these engines have many features that top racing designers would like to see and tuners would usually modify standard engines to create (that the much revered older models did not incorporate) – resulting in superb performance for capacity, weight, fuel consumption and reduced emissions (necessary for modern manufacturers).' Everybody should be able to make an informed decision about their expensive purchase and I completely agree that some unfortunate individuals will have horror stories but it is the same for almost any car. The odds are very much in your favour that your Cayman 3.4S will be just fine if it has been maintained properly. If you take out a warranty, as you would with any expensive purchase, then you can sleep like a baby at night. I know I do with my own Cayman S.

anonymous said: [redacted] Read again. He started by saying it WILL blow up, and this CAN happen despite good maintenance. Saying it WILL blow up suggests a degree of certainty that I didn't agree with so I used the caps for emphasis.

anonymous said: [redacted] A lot of research has been done on this matter, and many of the UK's leading Porsche specialists have gone on record (including Barry at Hartech) to divulge their experiences with the M97 engine. The conclusion from this is not about numbers of failures as a hard figure with no benchmark, the important thing is to compare this number against the total of M97 engines made and seen in the workshops. The percentage of engines diagnosed in the UK runs at approximately 5% of total M97 engines seen in the workshops, which is actually quite low. I'd never suggest the issue isn't real, but it's important to put these numbers in to context, to avoid over-egging the issue.

Went through this dilemma myself back in the summer to replace my 2.5 986. £10k without finance for a 987 - looked at Boxster 2.7s and thought about stretching to a Cayman 2.7. The cars I looked at were nice enough, but had little niggles - holes in history, creaky front ends, tired interiors. Early 987s are coming on for 10 years old, though. Dismissed 3.4 Cayman/Boxster S entirely because of the engine lark. I can't afford it if it goes pop, I don't want the hassle, I'm not even interested in "throwing the dice" on my daily driver. Found a 2010 Cayman 2.9 near my girlfriend's. One owner, FPSH, 35k miles, Guards Red, sports seats, PDK, PCM3.0, Bose, 17 inch alloys - daily driver spec. Warranty, covered the gap with finance through the dealer. More resolved engine design and the warranty means I'm not worried about it. Short answer - I'd recommend you spend ~£20k for a 987.2.

delays said: Went through this dilemma myself back in the summer to replace my 2.5 986. £10k without finance for a 987 - looked at Boxster 2.7s and thought about stretching to a Cayman 2.7. The cars I looked at were nice enough, but had little niggles - holes in history, creaky front ends, tired interiors. Early 987s are coming on for 10 years old, though. Dismissed 3.4 Cayman/Boxster S entirely because of the engine lark. I can't afford it if it goes pop, I don't want the hassle, I'm not even interested in "throwing the dice" on my daily driver. Found a 2010 Cayman 2.9 near my girlfriend's. One owner, FPSH, 35k miles, Guards Red, sports seats, PDK, PCM3.0, Bose, 17 inch alloys - daily driver spec. Warranty, covered the gap with finance through the dealer. More resolved engine design and the warranty means I'm not worried about it. Short answer - I'd recommend you spend ~£20k for a 987.2. Which 17" alloys does yours have? I pick mine up at the weekend, but has the 19" Carrera classic alloys, which look ok but the ride isn't great. I tried one with the 18" Cayman S alloys which I really like the look of but ride was still on the firm side. Looks like my options are the standard 17" gen 2 wheels or the boxster wheels, which look slightly better in pictures at least.

anonymous said: [redacted] They do look excellent, how much did you pay if you don't mind me asking? I assume no impact to Porsche warranty in fitting them as they were available as an option on the cayman? I'd keep to N rated tyres, Michelin Pilot Sport 2's still the best?

Typing this reply from the iPhone, so apologies if the formatting is funky. My car has the basic Cayman wheel, as per this car: http://m.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C635833 A cruel observer would say they're rare for a reason, but I kind of like the chunky sidewall, especially at the rear. Nice smooth ride and easy to refurb (having endured the pain of getting a set of GT3 split rims property sorted, this really appealed). Winter tyres are a doddle as well. I agree with cmoose, in that the Boxster wheels are slightly nicer. Edited by delays on Monday 14th December 21:57

I like those 5 spoke wheels as well, fairly unexciting but simple and easy to clean no doubt! I do slightly prefer the Boxster ones but think I'd take either if a set came up at a good price.

anonymous said: [redacted] Not bad at all. Need to replace the coloured centre crests - the previous owner was obviously partial to some of those pretty vicious cleaning agents, which has affected the lacquer.

As lovely as the 981's are I think there are some beautiful lines on the 987's that the newer car is missing.

Thanks all. My second dilemma was some flavour of 911 (for added four seat practicalness) and pending a satisfactory inspection a deal is done....

I had a similar choice this year. Looked and looked at ads and decided upon a 2.7 Gen 1. I largely agree with most of the 978.1 S concerns although a chat with a helpful service manager at the local OPC helped relay most of my fears over any choice. Of particular interest was his comment that most of the IMS failures on Cayman's they've seen have come under slow acceleration which causes a low level vibration, so he told me to rev it well and all will be fine! The thing I do love about the 2.7 is it's need to be revved. It's not the fastest car I've owned by it's the most characterful and the noise even with standard exhaust is totally intoxicating. Here's mine, it's Guards red with the original 17's. When it was launched I never used to like these wheels but whilst looking I couldn't help but feel 987s with 19s or 20s look over shoe'd. If I was choosing now I'd shell out the extra for a 987.2 2.9, you'd have zero engine worries and much better interior tech. If you aren't buying a Porsche warranty you can upgrade the tech obviously, along with the much better Bosch battery.

No apology necessary, grinch-like cynicism is all we have we no actual data to pour over! He said they'd seen 3 failures ever. All S models and the first iteration of the 987 engine. I was there observing my car (not mine at the time) having a service. He said by the time the various revisions had made it to my 2008 there should be no issues. I did get the sense that he felt if he didn't take it seriously as a thought, it'd just fuel some even deeper concern of mine. So I appreciated his tone. Thanks, very happy with it in every way, although I just wonder if next spring will be a good time to get a 981 6cyl. Odd to think they'll only be made for a 3 1/2 year period in total. Should help residuals stay very solid. anonymous said: [redacted]

BTW, I think his comment re failures was the cars that had arrived having just broken. i.e., the moment of failure didn't happen at 6500rpm on a track but at a very sedate speed in daily driving. His general point seemed to be to do the engine having some inherent (if uber rare) design issue once some wearing has happened as opposed to it being incapable of revving well. anonymous said: [redacted]

anonymous said: [redacted] I took that as a reference to the M97 engine type as opposed to the earlier M96 on the initial run of 987.1 Cayman S's.

anonymous said: [redacted] You'd best change Wikipedia, the bible of information with the Owner's club and the official Porsche info published by them in 2005 then. If you do, can and are willing to publish the evidence proving that, please do. It'll be an interesting bit of info to read. As I said, I don't disagree with your cynical approach at all and I also wish that Porsche had published data, evidence and offered guidance and support to owners throughout the whole issue. But I suspect they don't have it, don't really feel that the time or money is worth it and have bigger concerns to worry about, which looking back probably involved stock market manipulation to attempt that botched VW take over. Oh well at least they are owned by VW these days so we shouldn't have any engine scandals to worry about...

anonymous said: [redacted] Seeing as you aren't interested... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Porsche_engi...

anonymous said: [redacted] There's endless threads on the M96/M97 question on a variety of forums concerning Caymans and 911s with many owners posting photos (as you've just done) to prove the truth that their car has a certain model engine and that means every other car must be the same at theirs. That would be fine but there are plenty of people posting the opposite truth to yours, i.e. 987 Cayman's and (to my mind even more bizarrely) 997s with M96 engine codes on the COA or stamped on the block. There's plenty online suggesting that COAs are all wrong and only a photo of the block will prove the truth! The only thing that does pique my interest here is whether a potential new owner is scared off by endless internet ranting which leads to a lack of clarity of the whole subject, something I fear this conversation is only adding to, so on that note, I'm off to drive my Cayman which I bought and would encourage others to do the same.

anonymous said: [redacted] Well I stand informed, one on your view of engine codes, the other on you as a human being and I'm confident this conversation has informed me well enough on the latter if not the former.

JackReacher said: anonymous said: [redacted] They do look excellent, how much did you pay if you don't mind me asking? I assume no impact to Porsche warranty in fitting them as they were available as an option on the cayman? I'd keep to N rated tyres, Michelin Pilot Sport 2's still the best? The car in the picture is actually mine (2011 Gen2 2.9). I bought the wheels off Pistonheads for £250 for the set of 4. It took 6 months to track down a set at that price and I keep my summer tyres on them. My winter tyres are on Cayman II 17" wheels. If you are lucky enough to get a gen2 with 19" wheels, then the resale value of those will easily pay for the 17" with new tyres and probably have change.

With 2.7s down around 15 grand its a lot of car for the money, certainly has had me thinking a few times, likewise low 20's for a later 2.9. The later is at the back of mind to buy in a couple of years when they drop a touch more as a bit to new at the moment for me (price/value I think becomes optimal around 7 to 10 years). Huge performance for the money and interesting that its the Porsche that has slipped right under the radar for several years, they made the same lap times when tested as the earlier S and that car put in pretty remarkable lap times itself.

anonymous said: [redacted] What are these like in real life, nice wheels? Tempted to get a set for my Gen 2 but can't find any good pictures

Why do Porsche official pictures always show the cars lowered?

Quick thought, they may not fit the gen 2 as the brakes for bigger on the 2.9, is that correct? If so I will have to hold out for the gen 2 boxster or Cayman alloys. And thanks for the photos! I like the look, but lack of any gen 2 pics supports maybe they don't fit Edited by JackReacher on Friday 22 January 20:02

anonymous said: [redacted] I thought the 2.9 had the same front discs, so presumably same width as the S. Although the 2.9 did come with 17'a as standard, very confusing. Maybe the gen 2 wheels can accommodate a wider brake

anonymous said: [redacted] Thanks, I understand what you are saying re the calipers being deeper, and potentially catching the wheel. What I'm stuggling to get my head around is if the 2.9 has the same sized discs and pads, why would the caliper be smaller than the S? I'm not that clued up on these things so it may well be that the S is bigger, I just don't understand why. I think I'll just find some gen 2 boxster or cayman wheels to be sure.