SUV? Not Interested. New 911, where is it?

I hope to God that Porsche spends as much time "f-ing around" on a new 911, as it is doing on the SUV. <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

I don't know what you are talking about. I want to see the new SUV in the Paris-Dakar ralley.

The New Cayenne is a beautiful vehicle. I have seen it touched it and am thrilled at how it looks inside and out. I as many were anticipated it looking plain and boring but it is anything but that. The spy pictures do not do it justice at all. As for spending as much time on the 911 as they do on this SUV. Well how do they please everyone? Many feel they spent to much time changing the 911, and others not enough. What is the correct amount of change? As for racing, keep in mind that the Cayenne is the vehicle that will allow Porsche to survive and be able to keep building the sports cars we all seem to love. Without it you would see your beloved 911 become a Mercedes, Audi or maybe a BMW built car. Then what would the comments be?

Amen, Bill. Porsche is first and foremost a business. They have to do what they think is required to survive and profit. The market will decide whether the Cayenne is a good move or not, right? I'm excited to see it in person.

PORSCHE IS A COMPANY WHO NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY. HUMMM I DONT KNOW WHAT KINDA BUSINESS MODEL YOU BEEN LOOKING AT BUT PORSCHE THE BRAND NAME IS WORTH A LOT MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE. So selling SUV and distancing themselves from the loyal fan is a big mistake on a downturn. I personally wouldnt buy a Porsche SUV. Why bother, just say money at a JEEP.

Hi Bloke (From an earlier post, also in response to a roschpe thread) About brands. Porsche's brand equity was built with sports cars. The essence of it is performance. And like all brands, theirs has to be protected, maintained and kept healthy. But businesses are built -- grown -- by extending brand equity to new products. That's why Sony makes far more than the transistor radios they started with. Porsche's equity is in performance and competition. It can easily be extended to an SUV, for most of the people who are attracted to the brand. I recently received their mailing for the Cayenne. It looks like they are marketing it around their off road competition heritage. Like the Monte Carlo rally, and the 959. My guess is they will be racing the Cayenne in Paris-Dakar, Baja 1000 and other off road endurance racers, as soon as it is launched. It fits. High performance and competition, the brand character, now in an SUV. Porsche builds great cars that are a ball to drive. They haven't let us down yet. I think they can do exactly that with an SUV. They are already claiming the Turbo Cayenne will OUTPERFORM the current Carrera (Nov. Automobile). If that's true, they haven't hurt the brand. They have not even merely maintained it. They have enhanced it. I'm willing to give the factory the benefit of the doubt. I may be one of the more moderate about this issue, but I'm not going to condemn the Cayenne til I drive it. In addition to my Porsches, I also own a Jeep GC with 100,000 miles on it. It's a great vehicle, and as you point out, offers a lot of value. But would I consider an SUV that has all the fun and performance of a Porsche to replace it? You betcha. A financial healthy, less cyclical and independent company is the best scenario for PAG, and for those of us who love the cars, AND the brand. This is all just my opinion, of course, but it is a professional opinion. I have been in marketing and advertising for close to 30 years. (A free business lesson learned in those thirty years: Never let your personal feelings cloud your thinking.) Mike

Sorry Mike, but this string is not about the SUV. It is about the 911. I don't give a flying f, if Porsche decides to build lawnmowers, but don't "***** foot" 911 development. Porsche = Idiots if they blow another generation of 911s.

Mike, i dont think selling a high brand name like porsche is selling a $100 walkman. Lets me realistic about the customer base. The last time i check the customer profile and average income was 200k per year or better. So, your idea of great marketing is get into a market that is so saturated with Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover and whoever else and expect people to drive a $100k SUV. Also, I think the market share also suggest that the buyers of high end SUV isnt a male but rather a woman. So, let me see if i was a woman in my 30-50 with high income or lifestyle. I am not buying a porsche. Thanks for your professional opinion about marketing but like i said this isnt a $100 walkman. Plus, final note regarding the brand name. How long before people relize that porsche no longer competes in the F1, IRL, Cart or any other big profile series. Big deal we got bunch of GT3 running around. Lets see if we can get into the big circuit. I would like to run arond and show off the colors of porsche but at what event. NOT F1.

Roschpe [quote] Porsche = Idiots if they blow another generation of 911s <hr></blockquote> I wasn't aware they had blown one yet. which generation are you refering to? Bloke I too hate that PAG is not competing at the top level of the sport. Since they got BMW legislated out of GT, the class is basically an expensive Cupcar series. You're abolutely right that everybody has an SUV at this point. And maybe PAG IS too late in this. But all the high end makers are still selling every one they make. Mike

We have no brand name in SUV. Plus how many are they actually going to sell in germany.(GOOD LUCK). Well at this pt. why dont porsche just make a deal with VW and get bought and start selling 500hps VW golfs. Great i can wait to start buying VW porshce. Come get them at the dealer near you.

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Given the years spent developing the 911, perhaps it is best that Porsche's "new 911" not be named a 911 at all. The 911 concept as an engineering platform may be "beyond maturity". Yet the brand value is almost inestimable, confirmed by the emotional investment that these posts reveal. As to SONY, they have been very successful extending their brand & price-range w/o sacrificing product quality & image. Perhaps some aren't aware of their professional (& expensive!) products. Same w/ their TVs & monitors. Dolby is similar, Dolby's name is on $50 products, yet they supply very expensive & high end systems to the professional recording industry. Choose examples carefully, sometimes they prove the opposite of your point.

kevin, i think you are taking the sony comment out of context. yes even porsche has a high end like the new GT(whenever it comes out, GT2 and etc. But the only reason why they develop the new GT and a great example is 959 is to enhance the brand of porsche. The 959 was developed and sold at a lost so use regular driving 911 owner can feel good about their cars. But, if you are telling me developing an SUV is no way delutes the brand name of porsche then you and i have a difference of opinion in a major way. Also, regarding sony! you are telling me if you had 10k grand and want a new stereo you going to buy a sony product(PLEASE). mabye a cd player at best. Lets just say even Ford can make a kick *** car for a 100k but i wouldnt buy one for one reason. It doenst give me pride to drive it. The name of porsche should bring pride into their owners and that comes from hertiage and seeing a SUV with a porsche tag isnt going to cut it.

Bloke the point with the Sony analogy was not that their products equal porsches products, but that you can build and extend brand equity beyond a narrow portion of a given category. It happens in categories from inexpensive package goods all the way up to ultra-expensive, image-driven products. As long as it's performance based, and Porsche races it successfully, I think they can succeed at it. The 959 in Paris Dakkar, the Monte Carlo Rally victories are bridges, and I think that's why PAG is exploiting them. They have so much cash right now, they may be able to even survive a complete failure, but I'm thinking they will pull it off. I don't think Bill Hodges is blowing smoke at us, when he talks about how impressed he is with it. And if it really does outperform a Carrera, as the magazine reported, imagine! Mike

Since the 959 experience, I think Porsche has insisted that all it's products make "appropriate margin" - that's why the very high perf. niche (competition) cars are now priced so high. What I see about the SUV & the various pre-release reactions to it, is that it is a different aspect of the Porsche brand. I suppose everyone who comes to "personally own" the Porsche brand based upon a sports car-only view of Porsche's history sees the 4WD, Artillery & AFV designs by Dr. Ferdinand as a sideshow. I don't. I will judge the meaning & value of the Cayenne on its own merits as a machine, the same standard I used when I drove my first Porsche in 1968 (356B). If it is a good machine & a successful product, I expect it to "increase the size of the pie" for PAG, & therby meet Roschpe's demand for funds & staff resources to design & build a proper next 911. Really, who cares about Branding or the "meaning" of the Cayenne IF the outcome supports a better future 911-like product? $10K is on the borderline of truly "hi-end" audio these days (not even including Audio-Video Home Entertainment). One could select $10K worth of SONY product and get a system worthy of listening to and critcally comparing to other $10K sytems. Most of us have never seen these SONY products, they aren't distributed to the same channels as the consumer-grade (Best Buys) product. Much of it is kept in their home market, Americans just won't buy SONY products that don't fit their pre-conceived image. Kinda like how some Porsche owners will never buy a Cayenne, no matter what.

Mike, I guess at this pt a moot arguement. but, yes there is no way i am buying one much like any other SUV. so, i hope you are correct and they can use that fat cash pile to bring a great next generation of 911. I dont want to get another middle of the road car with an expensive tag. But, how does the daker rally with a suv enhance the image? not sure about that but hey better then a cheap cup racing i guess and yes, a 959 does make one wonder if i can take my 911 off road. but, i guess that is the difference. see you and everyone at the local track with a HOT SUV. oh man if i get smoked by an SUV that adds insult to injury.

Questions for you roschpe; 1) what line of business are you in? 2) what age group do you come in? 3) how many Porsches have you owned to date? 4) why did you purchase your current Porsche? 5) IF the Porsche brand was renamed tomorrow but the product stayed the same, would you buy? 6) what does the word �longevity� mean to you? � feel free to use a dictionary for this one! 7) are you always this aggressive when part-taking in an 'intelligent' discussion? 8) does swearing make your points of view seem more intelligent in your opinion? 9) aren�t you suppose to be doing school homework? Sorry for the many questions roschpe. I do expect FULL answers by close of school on Tuesday or detention would be served out! Now to real issues. Bloke, Bill H and Mike you are all obviously business aware in the 21st Century. Sentiments do not bring business success and, unfortunately, nor does customer loyalty. Business is always strictly business. You buy low and sell high! In an ideal world Porsche would have big BHP cars weighing less than 500kgs. Well, nothing wrong with dreaming but there is the responsibility aspect of the environment and cost constraints. As far as I am concerned, I am happy with a car that allows me the opportunity to enhance it to suit me. A Porsche does that as it can be easily tuned to any performance level. Yes there are other brand s that offers big BHP at less price however I am happy to stick to something that has served me well and been developed over 30 years. Big BHP alone won�t tempt me nor would better 0 � 62MPH figures others are able to produce. What I do know is, on the streets or on a racetrack I can pretty much drive HARD time and time again with a BIG on my face � the car just eager to be pushed even harder. another 2 cents worth � please don�t shoot the messenger!

Well said 996Cab, well said. K <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

As for who are the purists among us, I'm still not convinced the carrera 4 is a real 911...2WD for me!!! <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> sean

Sean <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> Hey, wait a minute, you may be on to something. Wasn't the first Porsche topless? So anything with a roof isn't a real Porsche. Let's bring in the IOC and ISU to settle this controversy

Mike, Double <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> on that last sentence !!! I think the first Porsche was a tank prototype...and I think it had a turret, but I could be wrong. I wonder if techart would make me a 911 turret ?? time for some more <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> sean

Attention 996 Cab. It is obvious that ALL Porsches are under powered. Whether you guys want to admit it or not - and whether or not you think that is important or not. I know the 3 dealers in my area VERY well and they all share the same concerns as me. So guys do me a favour, lets not pretend that the 911 is just right for its time, maybe it was is 1999. But its 2002 now and a 20HP increase is really just spit in the wind. And they have the effrontery to "offer" a 20hp increase for $20,000?...Oh thank you Porsche, you are too kind.... Come on give me a break If they continue to be behind the horsepower race in the next generation I won't buy one. What worries me is that there are people - buyers - out there who accept this. And yeah you are right Porsche doesn't have to do anything else as long as there are people out there willing to accept anything from Porsche.

roschpe, A dealer(s) tells you that the most powerful normally aspirated 911 to date is underpowered and you believe him?, hmmmm <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> . If Big BHP is your take then why not a TT or visit one of many reputable tuners � Gemballa, Techart, Roock or even RUF. The 996 is a great drivers car, you�ve just got to know how to drive it! It is not a car for boy racers or lads to drag race. For drag racing buy any V8, spend $$$ tuning it and cause more harm to the environment. If you are being out-dragged at traffic lights then perhaps, and unfortunately, you are being pre-judged as a boy racer by others. It is an ego thing, just do not get involved. Keep in mind roschpe, it is not the size that matters it is how you use it. Sorry!!!

What do you mean, "Do I believe him?".. There is nothing to believe, I own one, and so do they.

996cab, "It isnt the size but how you use it." Now is that what you been told all your life or was that just your last gf.(you did set yourself up for that one). As for the power issue, if you are happy then hey who am i to argue but really come on dont you want something extra? if you say no, then great but dont start comparing the rest of us who wants some more power with street racers. For, goodness sakes far as i know you got a tip in your car(prejudgement seems like prerequisite for you lads over pond.) SEE WHAT I MEAN. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

bloke, nothing personal but something tells me I have offended your boyfriend!!! - sorry if that is the case. No offence intentionally intended. Big BHP is ok - if that sort of thing turns you on. As previously pointed out, there are a wealth of tuners who can accommodate virtually everyone. Just a case of how deep your pocket (and ego) is or buy a TT. I have just purchased a 964RS lightweight. Weighs about 1220kgs, has 260bhp ONLY but boy does it go, stop and handle! A 996 is a refined GT. It would never be a racer - not at that weight. Buy an RS and you would agree with me that Big BHP is all but a small part in the overall picture of performance. If you don't know that already then I must excuse myself out of this tread. Only boy racers, kids, lads and nappy wearers look at a cars Big BHP numbers and drool over it. I hope you are not in the same club. hey....lets be friends bloke!

996, sure my boyfriend. i will let my wife know that i have decided to move on. mate, everything is in good fun. but, i am not going to drive an RS as my daily car but thanks for the advice. maybe next year i can swing in a old classic like yourself. laterz

bloke, don't be mad at me, I was only stating my point with vigour as I feel Porsche is at last taking steps to secure its future - don't take it personal, relax. You will get your Big BHP aspirated engine from Porsche, just be patient. They, Porsche, have always followed the same methodical improvement process called development. We in the UK pay the highest possible prices for cars. 12-months ago Porsche reduced its prices in the UK by up to 8%. That meant anyone purchasing a Porsche in the UK can spend more money where they feel it is worth spending � I can�t comment about US car pricing but I do know they are comparatively less than UK models. The USA, I understand, is by far Porsches� biggest market. However, I believe (I could be wrong) that strict emission controls have meant that the US misses out on cars like the GT3 � what a car! So they, Porsche, do make cars for all �drivers�. I am sure they, Porsche, are actively looking at ways of introducing what the market dictates when it dictates. The key thing for Porsche is racing, once they are back in Le Mans, Paris to Dakar etc then sparks would definitely fly and we, the public, would be given the opportunity to have wider choices in performance terms � that is if the current models do nothing for you. My 964RS is for track days mostly - not to be parked away for years on end etc.

996, mad no mate, that wouldnt be cool at all. everything is in good fun and all for our bloody car. i know that feeling about paying too much for cars in london, i worked there in 97 so i know that feeling of no parking etc etc and that high theft rate to top it off. well i hope so. that is all i can say regarding the next generation of 911. as for the states, mabye i should get a honda and that way i wont pay so many speeding tickets. Knock on wood, havent had one in awhile. As for your RS, the guy who sold me my car is doing the similar convension. He is taking a 73 or something close to that year and sticking in a 993 engine. Now that would be nice to see. drive well and always quick.

[quote]Originally posted by Kevin E Davis: <strong> If it is a good machine & a successful product, I expect it to "increase the size of the pie" for PAG, & therby meet Roschpe's demand for funds & staff resources to design & build a proper next 911. ... Kinda like how some Porsche owners will never buy a Cayenne, no matter what.</strong><hr></blockquote> I think you are right. I'm sure that the Cayenne sales will be incremental rather than displacing 911 sales and so the total revenue stream for Porsche should be increased. Sure, there are bound to be some owners who'll purchase the Cayenne instead of a 911/Boxster but I think they'll be those owners who are more interested in owning a 'Porsche' than the vehicle itself. I guess from Porsche's point of view that's fine too as it will be a new sale anyway. I could see myself swapping my Dinan'd BMW X5 4.4 sport if the Cayenne were good enough. There's definitely a market at the 300hp+ high performance on-road SUV level, as witnessed by the BMW X5 4.6is and AMG ML320. That said, I think they've got a lot to live up to against the BMW particularly. Fit, finish and performance are excellent. (I am a little biased). I always felt the Merc was 'cluttered' internally and the styling does nothing for me.