996 GT3 Upgrades - Page 3 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

As I'm just about to pull the trigger on a buying a 996.2 GT3 which will be used 80/20 road/track, i'm after some pointers on some upgrades i'll like to make: 1) RS/Cup Front cutouts/rad tilting - Are there any kits for this or idiot proof instructions and shopping lists? 2) Rear Cup bumper - Where's the best place to get one from? I quite like the centre exit and assume it makes the exhaust pipe work less convoluted? 3) Exhaust systems - How easy is it to match a cup silencer with 200cell cats to make a road legal system? Failing that, which system provides proven power, is robust, sounds nice and would be track noise police friendly, even if turn downs are needed? 4) Brakes - Are Alcon replacement rotors still the 'go-to' or are there better/more easily obtainable options? 5) Cup rear spoiler - Where's the best place to get one from? 6) 8:32 final drive - Any feedback from people who've had this done would be welcome 7) Suspension - I've found that the higher end systems cope better with road and track use due to their greater damping control - Any recommendations on manufacturers & setups would be welcome I'm all ears

Take it to Center Gravity for suspension work....you will not get better impartial advice or service anywhere. I’ve taken two cars to them this year having seen lots of recommendations over the years....made a huge improvement to both cars.

I don’t have much to add other than - wow! If most of that plays out will be quite something. Any thoughts on wheel/tyres and cabin tweaks?

northerner said: As I'm just about to pull the trigger on a buying a 996.2 GT3 which will be used 80/20 road/track, i'm after some pointers on some upgrades i'll like to make: 1) RS/Cup Front cutouts/rad tilting - Are there any kits for this or idiot proof instructions and shopping lists? The roadgoing RS bumper duct wasn't functional (the radiator remained upright) For road use in the UK, it's of limited (for which read zero) benefit. northerner said: 2) Rear Cup bumper - Where's the best place to get one from? I quite like the centre exit and assume it makes the exhaust pipe work less convoluted? http://gettydesign.com/996tailbases/996-cup-gt3-rs-and-2004-rsr/ northerner said: 3) Exhaust systems - How easy is it to match a cup silencer with 200cell cats to make a road legal system? A genuine 996 Cup silencer has no guts to it : it's just a sodding great big resonance chamber, it'll sound wonderful at full chat, but otherwise will be the most awful, boomy, droning exhaust you can fit. northerner said: Failing that, which system provides proven power, is robust, sounds nice and would be track noise police friendly, even if turn downs are needed? M&M : https://m-m-germany.de/ and they'll even make you a Cup look a like silencer. northerner said: 4) Brakes - Are Alcon replacement rotors still the 'go-to' or are there better/more easily obtainable options? They're about as good as it gets in terms of durability and being silent on the road. northerner said: 5) Cup rear spoiler - Where's the best place to get one from? http://gettydesign.com/996tailbases/996-cup-gt3-rs-and-2004-rsr/ The genuine Cup spoiler uses a different (carbon fibre) engine cover which enables the use of a more efficient air filter assembly : Something like this will probably require many hours of work to fit and adapt to the roadgoing air filter housing : https://www.f-s-h.com/Rear-Spoiler-996-GT3-Cup or try Getty again : http://gettydesign.com/996tailbases/996-cup-gt3-rs... northerner said: 6) 8:32 final drive - Any feedback from people who've had this done would be welcome. For a car used on the road 80% of the time, it'll merely make things noisier when cruising, along with being less economical. Would it be high up on my list of modifications to carry out on a roadgoing 996 GT3 ? Absolutely not. northerner said: (7) Suspension - I've found that the higher end systems cope better with road and track use due to their greater damping control - Any recommendations on manufacturers & setups would be welcome. Ohlins, MCS, Moton, ExeTC along with all the other suspects. By and large you get what you pay for, though beyond a certain point the benefits won't be obvious without using rose/heim joints/spherical bearings on all the suspension components. I'm all ears

Alcon brakes (front discs and pads - rears as factory are fine but you could upgrade pads. PFC good too - and cheaper I think Cup diff plates Check all bushings and get a good geo (eg Chris Franklin) If budget allows consider change to KWv3 etc Cups or Toyos etc (but not so good in the wet on the road, and Toyos noisy). Enjoy!

For the brakes - is there really any need for Alcons for a car that is mostly on the road, when standard discs are so cheap these days? FVD in Germany sell front discs for only eur 166 each, so let's say worst case scenario maybe £200 each once they get through customs etc. Actually £200 is maybe around the UK price anyway. https://www.fvd.net/de-en/99735140990EQ/brake-disc... For people doing 10+ track days a year Alcons make sense. A decade ago the Alcon option wasn't much more expensive than the factory option so it was a no-brainer. But now you are paying maybe triple the factory cost for Alcon discs.

I’d leave everything else alone and spend your money on suspension, brakes, final drive and tyres. If you’ve got any money left over, buy a momo cup steering wheel. £ for £ they will be the best upgrades and all you need. Personally I’d fit kw Clubsport or a higher end damper. Also take the car to a specialist tuner - reputable proven Carrera cup winning race team or c of g etc. Don’t bother with bodywork or exhaust. Waste of money and restricts track day options

Surface Transforms now do a ceramic rotor option. Not tried them myself due to eyewatering expense. Of late, I've used Performance Friction front discs and pads, although quite noisy I've been happy with them and crucially they are durable. The stock exhaust is problematic enough for UK track days these days - just my experience! Suspension - I have had a good experience with KW v3s a few years ago on my old 996.2 CSR. Have you considered a lightweight clutch and flywheel combo rather than final drive? Likewise, my experience has been that this is very effective at making the car feel much more urgent in 1st, 2nd, 3rd although noting the CSR was a non-Mezger engine but I expect the impact to be similar for the GT3. I find the 996.2 GT3 very sensitive to set-up so look to work with someone that can get to something that suits your preferences and driving style. You need to be aware that setting the car up for your use case will create compromises elsewhere - for example, in my case a track focused set up makes for quite a lively drive on bumpy B roads in Cup 2s in the wet. You probably know all this but worth reiterating

braddo said: For the brakes - is there really any need for Alcons for a car that is mostly on the road, when standard discs are so cheap these days ? None whatsoever. Ditto the Cup 'esque exhaust, Cup wing, Cup rear bumper, Cup radiator mod and CWP. Personally I'd chuck the best dampers I could at the car and then leave it at CG for a couple of days (and I'd probably fit an RPMT CSR carbon ducktail) but that's not what the OP is craving ... and far be it from anyone else to tell him what he should or shouldn't do with his pride and joy.

Thanks all for some great feedback & guidance @Slippydiif - I did think about toning the car down and going for the ducktail but must admit was reticent airing what could be viewed as heresy. The car i'm looking at, already has Alcons fitted which need renewing. On the topic of replacement rotors for the Alcons, who supplies these? I've contacted RPM who reached out to Alcon who then pointed me towards Uber9s. Uber9s have since confirmed that they no longer supply Alcon brakes

PM headed your way.

Great pics !!

I am a little confused about your question, to be honest. In my experience the 996.2 GT3 is a track-ready car. Might need a few upgrades in case you want to use it as a track-only tool but with the 80/20 profile, why do you want to modify it at all? Keep it stock.

Nice to have choice… some people like to sharpened for a specific purpose…

vilfredo said: I am a little confused about your question, to be honest. In my experience the 996.2 GT3 is a track-ready car. Might need a few upgrades in case you want to use it as a track-only tool but with the 80/20 profile, why do you want to modify it at all? Keep it stock. So the car i'm going to collect tomorrow already has a few upgrades fitted (Alcons, Cup2's Half cage, Ohlins R&T, cup diff & steering wheel) but I wanted feedback from people who have ran a 996 GT3 also performed upgrades, to understand what works, doesn't work, etc as some of these items need refreshing. My questions have led to some great responses on this thread which have helped me shape the direction I'm looking to take the car. So for me, its been very useful. Edited by northerner on Friday 21st May 22:28

Enjoy in good health

northerner said: So the car i'm going to collect tomorrow already has a few upgrades fitted (Alcons, Cup2's Half cage, Ohlins R&T, cup diff & steering wheel) but I wanted feedback from people who have ran a 996 GT3 also performed upgrades, to understand what works, doesn't work, etc as some of these items need refreshing. My questions have led to some great responses on this thread which have helped me shape the direction I'm looking to take the car. So for me, its been very useful. Alcons + RS29 work really well and seem to last forever. I’m also on similar usage, 80/20 road/track, about 5000 miles pa. I’m having a hard time deciding whether to go for shorter final drive. I’ve read all there is to read and currently leaning towards keeping it standard. Answer on a postcard please! Are you keeping the Ohlins or replacing them? I had less than satisfactory experience when having my ‘high end’ dampers rebuilt; so choose a brand with good UK support. If I was to do it all over again then I would go with Nitron. My car’s geo is quite mild (1.6 / 2.3 camber) but works well for my use. Great fun on Scottish B-roads / single track, where it could be driven like a tarmac rally car, and only fingertips control is required. Have fun in your new car! 996.2 are superb, standard or otherwise.

Slippydiff said: northerner said: As I'm just about to pull the trigger on a buying a 996.2 GT3 which will be used 80/20 road/track, i'm after some pointers on some upgrades i'll like to make: 1) RS/Cup Front cutouts/rad tilting - Are there any kits for this or idiot proof instructions and shopping lists? The roadgoing RS bumper duct wasn't functional (the radiator remained upright) For road use in the UK, it's of limited (for which read zero) benefit. What Slippy has missed out though is tilting the front radiator completes this modification. It should then balance the rear Cup spoiler by creating more downforce at the front. northerner said: The car i'm looking at, already has Alcons fitted which need renewing. On the topic of replacement rotors for the Alcons, who supplies these? I've contacted RPM who reached out to Alcon who then pointed me towards Uber9s. Uber9s have since confirmed that they no longer supply Alcon brakes I looked into the Alcons solution albeit a little late in the game. It seems that you can still get them if you buy a few sets. Six pairs (min purchase) seem to ring a bell although they may have just been making it sound unattractive as they couldn't bothered. Nick at Uber9 seems to have come up with another supplier of two piece discs. Pip

Steve Rance said: I’d leave everything else alone and spend your money on suspension, brakes, final drive and tyres. If you’ve got any money left over, buy a momo cup steering wheel. £ for £ they will be the best upgrades and all you need. Personally I’d fit kw Clubsport or a higher end damper. Also take the car to a specialist tuner - reputable proven Carrera cup winning race team or c of g etc. Don’t bother with bodywork or exhaust. Waste of money and restricts track day options This 100% potentially do the exhaust to save some weight, you can without compromising track day levels.

Collected the GT3 on Saturday and managed to get a grand total of 3 laps in around Donington on Monday before the alternator went. One thing I did notice, is the high level of corner exit understeer when applying the power. The rear felt it was squatting a lot under power which may well be down to suspension setup but any feedback on how these cars are supposed to handle on track - e.g. is this typical behaviour for a 996, would be welcome? For full disclosure - The cup 2 tyres are of a 2013 vintage and its running Ohlins R&T's for which I couldnt find the rear adjuster and the front adjuster is seized. The joy of old cars

Yes old cars not run on track for a while are always a surprise .... Buy an old race car and it is multiplied

northerner said: Collected the GT3 on Saturday and managed to get a grand total of 3 laps in around Donington on Monday before the alternator went. One thing I did notice, is the high level of corner exit understeer when applying the power. The rear felt it was squatting a lot under power which may well be down to suspension setup but any feedback on how these cars are supposed to handle on track - e.g. is this typical behaviour for a 996, would be welcome? For full disclosure - The cup 2 tyres are of a 2013 vintage and its running Ohlins R&T's for which I couldnt find the rear adjuster and the front adjuster is seized. The joy of old cars Bad luck on the alternator! For the corner exit have a look at the anti-roll bar settings. Softening the front (and checking rear is full stiff) will help. Although from memory for ultimate pace like Mr Rance the settings would be different to that.

Take the car into C of G and just let them do the set up first , Camber , Toe in , etc . Then newer tyres and another go .

braddo said: northerner said: Collected the GT3 on Saturday and managed to get a grand total of 3 laps in around Donington on Monday before the alternator went. One thing I did notice, is the high level of corner exit understeer when applying the power. The rear felt it was squatting a lot under power which may well be down to suspension setup but any feedback on how these cars are supposed to handle on track - e.g. is this typical behaviour for a 996, would be welcome? For full disclosure - The cup 2 tyres are of a 2013 vintage and its running Ohlins R&T's for which I couldnt find the rear adjuster and the front adjuster is seized. The joy of old cars Bad luck on the alternator! For the corner exit have a look at the anti-roll bar settings. Softening the front (and checking rear is full stiff) will help. Although from memory for ultimate pace like Mr Rance the settings would be different to that. Before you can make a correct judgement,bin the 8 yr old cups,and then see what its like,not surprised it undeersteers with just 3 laps and old cups.

hunter 66 said: Take the car into C of G and just let them do the set up first , Camber , Toe in , etc . Then newer tyres and another go . 2013 Cup 2's ?? they'll have about as much grip as a bar of soap in the bath ... Fit new Cup 2's AND take the old front tyres to CG with you, they'll provide them with a mine of information. Other obvious things to check : Front ARB setting, front camber, front toe and diff preload (or more accurately if the diff's been built right ...)

Even with old tyres you shouldn’t be getting understeer at all on exit. You should only get it on entry in a 911 from the apex the car should be fully rotated and the rears do all the work from then on. You will probably find that the understeer is starting a lot earlier in the corner and you are trying to drive the car all the way through the corner on the throttle which is just making things worse. I’d get yourself a new set of tyres, a decent set up and some instruction from a good 911 specialist before you started modifying your car. In an analogue 911 the driver is the biggest element in the extraction of pace.

Yellow491 said: Before you can make a correct judgement,bin the 8 yr old cups,and then see what its like,not surprised it undeersteers with just 3 laps and old cups. This. When I got my 997 GT3 it was on older fronts which had probably done a good few track days and it understeered horribly. In the cold it was like driving on ice. New set of Cup 2’s were night and day different.

If I remember correctly the front passenger shock was soft when I had the inspection done. That could add to the understear. New tyres are a must I would say.

Evoras said: If I remember correctly the front passenger shock was soft when I had the inspection done. That could add to the understear. New tyres are a must I would say. Interesting. Out of curiosity, who did the inspection and how long ago?

The inspection was carried out around a year ago. This was done at David Philips Porsche specialist Edinburgh.

Ok - I'll have a look as it wasn't picked up in the inspection or MOT. In other news, a full set of Cup2 Connects have been ordered from Tyre Guru. Not used this outfit before so let's se if they turn up Edited by northerner on Saturday 29th May 18:05

Interesting thread, thanks OP. I just bought a 996.2 GT3 as well, and I have in mind a very similar road/track split - although the fact I live 20 mins away from Jarama means I might end up increasing a bit the track side. I still have to truly drive the car, in fact I am receiving the reg plates next week, and I an eager to get to know "her" (veeery slowly) and progressively tailor the setup. It is not 100% stock, in fact it has just been fitted with an 8:32 final drive plus GT3RS lightweight flywheel (5 months / 500 km ago along with a gearbox rebuild), and it features Ohlins R/T (1.5 years old, roughly 5k miles on them) and brand new Cup2s. Oh, and full cage too (but that's "given" being it a CS). The suggestions shared until now are extremely interesting (as usual on PH), I will keep monitoring this thread! Cheers, Corrado

Q - Is there any value in upgrading the anti roll bars? Mine are badly rusted where it meets the drop links and with the other works i'm doing on the car, I was going to take them off, get them powder coated and refitted with poly bushes. But....whilst i'm thinking of doing this, is there a better set of ARB's out there which will bolt in?

northerner said: Q - Is there any value in upgrading the anti roll bars? Mine are badly rusted where it meets the drop links and with the other works i'm doing on the car, I was going to take them off, get them powder coated and refitted with poly bushes. But....whilst i'm thinking of doing this, is there a better set of ARB's out there which will bolt in? Powder coat alone is only good for garden furniture. Dip, light blast to add a key, e-coat then powder coat. Otherwise they'll be rusty again almost straight away. I also did the thin cross braces in the ARB area whilst I was under there. You can upgrade the drop links to adjustable rose jointed items using bits from McGill Motorsport - here's the parts list to make 2x for the front: 2x M10 Turnbuckle Link + Nuts | Adjustment: 170-210mm Linkage 10mm Size: 120mmRod Ends: None TURNKIT_M10_N120 £5.6300 £11.26 £13.51 2x M10 x 1.5mm Right Hand Male (XMRM10) Ultra High Performance Rod End XMRM10x1.5mm £8.3700 £16.74 £20.09 2x M10 x 1.5mm Left Hand Male (XMLM10) Ultra High Performance Rod End XMLM10x1.5mm £8.7800 £17.56 £21.07 4x RODOBAL Rose Joint Rubber Dust Protection Sealing Boot | M10 Quantity: 1 PackSize: Medium SEAB2 £3.1900 £12.76 £15.31 1x M10 Rod End Misalignment Spacers 10mm (Pack of 8) SPCRM10(QTY:8) £6.5000 £6.50 £7.80 Subtotal £63.98 VAT @ 20% £12.79 Total £76.77 OEM drop links are £2-300 each! And fancy "GT3 specific" rosejointed ugrade aftermarket bits similar. These are less than £40 each! I've done about 12000 road miles in all weathers on these and no knocks or wear yet. I had to cut the boots down to ensure good fit. Edited by alfapork on Friday 11th June 00:11 Edited by alfapork on Friday 11th June 00:13

Suspension wise - Has anyone had experience of 3 way Manthey KW Clubsports, Nitron NTR R3 or 2 way Moton Clubsports? Are they worth the @ £2k delta between the KW V3, Nitron NTR R1 or AST 5100?

northerner said: Suspension wise - Has anyone had experience of 3 way Manthey KW Clubsports, Nitron NTR R3 or 2 way Moton Clubsports? Are they worth the @ £2k delta between the KW V3, Nitron NTR R1 or AST 5100? My understanding is, yes, they do offer benefits. Just to add more confusion, I'd say Ohlins are worthy of consideration too. The extra modes of adjustment enable a far more detailed setup. The setup/fitting is probably as important as the shock though. Others here have more experience with this though, so over to them....

The ARBs are adjustable aren't they? Unlikely to be worth upgrading unless the full-stiff setting is deemed too soft (which is surely heading towards being too stiff for pleasurable road use).

I woudl disagree - I have the old Manthey KW3s - 2 way - on my car. When I bought her back in 2014 I tested her at Brands, found it good. It was originally set-up by Manthey and thus I left it well alone. And I haven't touched it since. Not once... I have played with the alignment and ARBs, but all this malarky of 3-way, 4-way adjustability, unless you are hellbent on winningh the track day trophy is almost useless. Especially on a road going car. Also, the fancier and the "racier" the shock is, the harder it will be to set-up and also far likelier to require frequent rebuilds... Especially on a road car... P.S. My car is an ex-Olaf Manthey personal 996.1 CS, which he did regularity rallies in - he put rose jointed Porsche motorsport suspension bits everywhere, but left the standard ARBs, while adding adjustable drop=links. If they were good enough for him... Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Friday 18th June 12:30

Cheburator mk2 said: It was originally set-up by Manthey and thus I left it well alone. And I haven't touched it since. Not once... I have played with the alignment and ARBs, but all this malarky of 3-way, 4-way adjustability, unless you are hellbent on winningh the track day trophy is almost useless. Especially on a road going car. If a shock only has single compression, rather than both low and high speed, there is one mode of adjustment, rather than 2. The best tuner and setup in the world cannot get around that. I would agree you do not necessarily need to be faffing and altering settings (either on road or track) but the adjustment parameters are not for nothing.

braddo said: The ARBs are adjustable aren't they? Unlikely to be worth upgrading unless the full-stiff setting is deemed too soft (which is surely heading towards being too stiff for pleasurable road use). They are indeed fully adjustable front and rear. The full stiff setting is only to be used with slicks as per the Factory manual, so you are bang on that too...

Digga said: If a shock only has single compression, rather than both low and high speed, there is one mode of adjustment, rather than 2. The best tuner and setup in the world cannot get around that. I would agree you do not necessarily need to be faffing and altering settings (either on road or track) but the adjustment parameters are not for nothing. I know how shocks work - my MTB has a 3-way shock and fork But a good set-up like the Manthey 3-way or the old 2-way or the Ohlins RT is more then enough. God, the OEM set-up if fresh is plenty good. The original poster stated 80/20 road/track use... A fancy set-up with 4-way adjustabilty is totally wasted for his intended use. Unless he is Kevin Estre and is taking the mickey out of us...

Cheburator mk2 said: Digga said: If a shock only has single compression, rather than both low and high speed, there is one mode of adjustment, rather than 2. The best tuner and setup in the world cannot get around that. I would agree you do not necessarily need to be faffing and altering settings (either on road or track) but the adjustment parameters are not for nothing. I know how shocks work - my MTB has a 3-way shock and fork But a good set-up like the Manthey 3-way or the old 2-way or the Ohlins RT is more then enough. God, the OEM set-up if fresh is plenty good. The original poster stated 80/20 road/track use... A fancy set-up with 4-way adjustabilty is totally wasted for his intended use. Unless he is Kevin Estre and is taking the mickey out of us... Only 3-way? Mine's got 2-way adjustment for compression, rebound and also spring rate.

Digga said: Only 3-way? Mine's got 2-way adjustment for compression, rebound and also spring rate. I love the new tech on the bikes - stopped riding in 2004 - got back into it 2018 on a seriously slack and playful hardtail... Just bought a new enduro bike... Will be taking junior to the local trails tomorrow... after a ride in the agri GT3...

Cheburator mk2 said: Unless he is Kevin Estre and is taking the mickey out of us... I nearly spat my tea out laughing at this In my limited experience, I've found that the higher end dampers were actually more comfortable on the road as you could take spring rate out and rely on the damper to work its magic. However, there are levels which unfortunately, have price tags to match. Hence, looking to the PH masses for their experience on the 996 GT3 platform.

northerner said: I nearly spat my tea out laughing at this In my limited experience, I've found that the higher end dampers were actually more comfortable on the road as you could take spring rate out and rely on the damper to work its magic. However, there are levels which unfortunately, have price tags to match. Hence, looking to the PH masses for their experience on the 996 GT3 platform. Absolutely spot on. Ohlins is your friend Forget most of the other stuff, a set of custom sprung/valved high end 3 or 4 ways is a gamechanger for the 996 chassis (these were ex-996 GT3 RSR racecar items which were eye-wateringly expensive when new) My trials and tribulations with getting them specced as I wanted them, then built, can be read here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=10...

northerner said: I nearly spat my tea out laughing at this In my limited experience, I've found that the higher end dampers were actually more comfortable on the road as you could take spring rate out and rely on the damper to work its magic. However, there are levels which unfortunately, have price tags to match. Hence, looking to the PH masses for their experience on the 996 GT3 platform. What you say is true... But it's all very individual and tailored... I have a modern high performance SUV, which coveres family duties, I also have a classic GT car, a bone stock following a suspension refresh E46 M3, and the GT3, which has been turned up to 11... I can give you a list of the mods, which Manthey did, but I doubt it will be usefu for your purposes... It has made the car wonderful on A/B-roads/Wales/Scotland/Nring/any track but terrible on the way there. It's like a hound chomping at the bit, constantly demanding to be grabbed by the scruff of the neck and driven at 10/10. When there, it's absolutely amazing - visceral and focused, pure, entirely under MY control. But you cannot stay in that zone all the time - it's either jail or knackering - both physically and emotionally. The KWs works really well, even in their ancient 2-way iteration - they control the car extremely well, but you cannot have both - body control and suppleness at the same time. The 996 is a stiff car, but it's still light years behind the modern stuff. It's' livelier, but again - you need to decide what you want from the platform. I had all other bases covered, so went with a car which had been made extremely focused. You say you want 80/20 r/t split - perhaps start with a standard car?

Cheburator mk2 said: What you say is true... But it's all very individual and tailored... I have a modern high performance SUV, which coveres family duties, I also have a classic GT car, a bone stock following a suspension refresh E46 M3, and the GT3, which has been turned up to 11... I can give you a list of the mods, which Manthey did, but I doubt it will be usefu for your purposes... It has made the car wonderful on A/B-roads/Wales/Scotland/Nring/any track but terrible on the way there. It's like a hound chomping at the bit, constantly demanding to be grabbed by the scruff of the neck and driven at 10/10. When there, it's absolutely amazing - visceral and focused, pure, entirely under MY control. But you cannot stay in that zone all the time - it's either jail or knackering - both physically and emotionally. The KWs works really well, even in their ancient 2-way iteration - they control the car extremely well, but you cannot have both - body control and suppleness at the same time. The 996 is a stiff car, but it's still light years behind the modern stuff. It's' livelier, but again - you need to decide what you want from the platform. I had all other bases covered, so went with a car which had been made extremely focused. You say you want 80/20 r/t split - perhaps start with a standard car? My black Manthey K400 converted car came with Manthey KW's, and whilst they were a decent upgrade over the stock Bilsteins (especially tired, leaking ones) they were hardly the last word in damping. Having spent some time in the car with the Manthey KW's I decided that the Ohlins set up that had seen duty on my GT2, would need to be dusted off once again. Whilst they'd transformed the GT2's chassis, the spring rates were still slightly too stiff. So I went out and bought a set of new OE Mk1 front and rear springs and presented them to my damper guy and aked him to dyno them as best he could. He came back to me with figures that were pretty close to what Porsche quoted, at which point I told him they were the rates we'd be using on the Ohlins. To say he wasn't impressed would be an understatement ... his major concern being that the rear of the car would end up on the bumpstops under heavy compressions. However I was adamant that those were the spring rates we'd be using, and he finally conceded, but his parting words were : "If it doesn't work, you'll be paying me to rebuild them with the correct spring rates and valving" "Fine" I said. Several weeks later they were on the car and ready to go. I requested my damper guy join me along my chosen stretch of road to benchmark them, and tweak them as required. We did a couple of runs and concurred the rear high speed compression a bit excessive, likewise the fronts. My damper guy was loath to wind HS compression out of the rears for the reasons given previously, but as the car was running sensible, roadgoing ride heights, he checked the available damper stroke and then wound some off both the front and rear of the car. The difference was immediately noticeable, and after a couple more runs, he said he thought no further tweaking was necessary. With the car back at the workshop, I asked him what he thought of the set up. "I can't believe how good it is, especially running those soft spring rates ..." I maintain you CAN have your cake (cast iron chassis control) and eat it (compliance) but you won't get it without using expensive dampers. In my experience they allow you to use soft spring rates (the fronts on the Ohlins were within 2 N/mm of the stock 35N/mm 200lbs/in items, and the rears were spot on the stock 65N/mm 370 lbs/in) I passengered in a car (a 3.9 engined Mk1with the Ohlins fitted ) around Oulton some years ago, with a very handy driver at the wheel. The way the car rode the kerbs was quite frankly mind boggling, and the only place the spring rates showed themselves to be soft, was when the rear end got minutely squirrely at the same point every lap, under maximum power out of Cascades. I said to the driver we should add a couple of clicks of low speed compression, but he was adamant that he liked how the car handled and that he was on top of the car through Cascades. I stepped out of the car at the end of session awestruck that a car running what were effectively stock spring rates could be so composed around the likes of Oulton. On the road it was slightly harsh and crashy until the dampers had warmed through. which normally equated to 30-45 minutes of driving from cold depending on the roads and the speed you drove at (which is exactly what I experienced with the ExeTC's on a mate's 996 GT2) but once they were warmed up, they provided the oft discussed magic carpet ride, and at big speeds, they were pretty much other-wordly in their ability to deal with bumps, crests and our increasingly poorly maintained roads. Whilst the K400 kit addressed the Mk1's power unit "shortcomings ", those Ohlins took the 996 chassis to a different level altogether.

Going back to the mtb analogy for Cheburator, I borrowed a mate's eMtb (electric pedal assist) over the May Bank Holiday weekend. Aside from the benefits of an electric motor (and the up and downsides of the extra weight) the standout thing was the fork - a new Ohlins. My own bike has a factory spec (i.e. not cheap OEM fit) Fox 36 fork, with 3-way adjustment, which is regularly service and fettled. Following the ride, it inspired me to change the fork oil and re-setup. It could not get anywhere near the Ohlins. The fork just did not dive, but neither did it ever 'pogo' on roots or rocks and the ability to absorb the high speed chatter meant hands and wrists were much less fatigued. IMHO you really can have your cake and eat it.

Digga said: Going back to the mtb analogy for Cheburator, I borrowed a mate's eMtb (electric pedal assist) over the May Bank Holiday weekend. Aside from the benefits of an electric motor (and the up and downsides of the extra weight) the standout thing was the fork - a new Ohlins. My own bike has a factory spec (i.e. not cheap OEM fit) Fox 36 fork, with 3-way adjustment, which is regularly service and fettled. Following the ride, it inspired me to change the fork oil and re-setup. It could not get anywhere near the Ohlins. The fork just did not dive, but neither did it ever 'pogo' on roots or rocks and the ability to absorb the high speed chatter meant hands and wrists were much less fatigued. IMHO you really can have your cake and eat it. I agree with the Diggerman as well as with Slippy - my hardtail has a Manitou Mezzer Fork - 3.5 way adjustable with a hydraulic bottom out on top... But I think guys you are missing my main point - all this fancy stuff is almost totally pointless on a 80/20 road car. A 996GT3 while a brilliant platform is old school stuff. It will never provide a magic carpet ride overall - cheap materials in the cabin provide for enough NVH... If you are trying to extract every last second out of the car, of corse a set of EX-TC is worth it. Or just grow up and source the 4-way adjustable Sachs factory dampers. But on a road car, I'd rather "bag" the £2.5k delta and get the 8:32 Cup drive for example...

Cheburator mk2 said: I agree with the Diggerman as well as with Slippy - my hardtail has a Manitou Mezzer Fork - 3.5 way adjustable with a hydraulic bottom out on top... But I think guys you are missing my main point - all this fancy stuff is almost totally pointless on a 80/20 road car. A 996GT3 while a brilliant platform is old school stuff. It will never provide a magic carpet ride overall - cheap materials in the cabin provide for enough NVH... If you are trying to extract every last second out of the car, of corse a set of EX-TC is worth it. Or just grow up and source the 4-way adjustable Sachs factory dampers. But on a road car, I'd rather "bag" the £2.5k delta and get the 8:32 Cup drive for example... Granted, it'll never be the most refined car in the world, but that wasn't my objective. Whilst I like the 996's chassis dynamics, the OE Bilsteins, even when in rude health, have their limitations, and it was those limitations I sought to exorcise with the fitment of the Ohlins. The OE Bilsteins could be found wanting over fast cresty roads (especially the front end) and the whilst the usual nodding 911 front end imbued the car with some additional character, it was merely "noise" rather than a byproduct of the front suspension and its dampers doing something amazing. I drove my benchmarking road in two cars, the first a Speed Yellow Mk 1 Comfort (which a good friend now owns) and on which 9M had recently carried out a full and thorough restoration of the underside (new dampers, new springs, new bushes etc etc) I think it safe to say it was in very rude health. The other my Manthey K400 car with the custom sprung/valved Ohlins. A mate accompanied me in both cars, and after we'd returned from traversing the road at unprintable speeds in the Manthey car, he commented on how smooth the ride had been, I'd like to think my driving was the reason for that, but I've no doubt it was Ohlins that should take the credit !! We then headed out along the same section of road again in the freshly restored Speed Yellow car. On the return leg, we traversed a crest in the road at a speed considerably lower than that we'd just done in the Manthey car, yet the outcome was VERY different. The front and rear suspension of the car seemed to be out of phase, and whilst the resultant moment wasn't a tank slapper in the classic sense of the phrase, it upset the car to a degree I really hadn't expected. The Manthey car had traversed the same section of road some 30mph faster, yet hadn't flinched over the section of road. Now I grant you some of that may have been down to the difference in tyres : Cup 1's Vs PS2's, but I'm equally sure a large proportion of it was down to the better damping and chassis control. The Manthey car was THE best 911 I owned, others were faster GT2, and others 964 RS were more engaging and tactile (none of them were refined !!) but for sheer driving pleasure the Manthey car had them all licked, it's pace, the noise (both induction and exhaust) you'll be all too familiar with, the perfect balance between an old school aircooled intimate cabin and contemporary watercooled chassis dynamics and power, allied to some kind of modernity : AC, a wonderful gearbox (especially with Olaf's quick shift) etc etc made it perfect for my needs. The Ohlins may well have been gilding the lily, but for me they were a game changer.

Apologies for the hijack! Can anyone let me have part numbers for the OEM front and rear springs for a 996.2 GT3. Not looking to upgrade, merely replace the tired springs. Thanks.

hi team, Just looking for some opinions as cant decide on what to do as I think the cats are on the way out and looking to get them replaced and has got me thinking on the following; 1. Go down the Manthey k410 route 2. Go down the custom route using either bitsa or going with the Top Gear manifold + 200 Cell cats + Fitting a pse style bypass pipe as id like to keep the original custom exhaust on as i think it sounds nice*. Then have it independently mapped for 2 settings pending on if the bypass is open or not (id imagine this is possible but not looked into it). Is the k410 really worth the money or are you just paying for the name as such and is now 'old tech'? And ive been reading up on the pro's/con's of the X-Pipe vs Straight and probably more inclined to go with straight pipe (though i imagine mapping would resolve the lack of low down torque with the X) thanks obviously this sound will change once the manifold/cats are replaced, unless i dont do the manifold