Mercedes

Now was i drunk when i read the review for the new Mercedes SL 55 AMG. This car will blow the regular 996 off the road and close to a turbo in terms of performance. Oh man, besides the Z06s running aroud now i am going to be afraid of a woman in a Mercedes at the stop light. Well all i can say is that i hope porsche sells lots of SUVs so we can get a sportscar that wont getted hammered by a 4600pound seden.

Bloke, a friend of mine has a 2000 996 and he was unhappy to report this his friends C class AMG was quicker. Something he's not happy about. Of course this is just acceleration, there is more to the Porsche experience than just that. K

Kas, I dont disagree with that comment there is more to a sports car then straight line. But really getting my doors blown off my a C Class. Now that hurts. HOW DO I SAY V8.

LOL yeah I agree, and was actually quite surprised until I looked at the HP numbers the AMG C puts out. On the other hand, stock 996TT's can get their *** handed to them by these worked Subaru WRX's running around here. K <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />

That is why Porsche must stop "f-ing" around with SUV's and put more into their "sports cars". While Porsche is "playing" with trucks their competitors are kicking their ***, and HARD!.

Actually - there are a number of "sedans" that are quicker (at least off the line) than a 996. BMW M5, BMW M3, Mercedes AMG (a few models) - and there are many sedans and much less expensive "sports cars" with higher horse power and higher torque. I still prefer my 996, on balance to all of them, for the "package" it delivers (that's why I bought it)- but I agree that I wish there was more "under the hood" for a car with its reputation and price point.

Go buy a '72 Chevy nova and put a big block engine and a nitrous kit in it. You'll hammer the SL, the Z06 and most anything else. It won't cost you nearly as much either. When you want to go round corners or drive in the rain, then you'll see why people buy Porsches.

I like to see the day when a sport tourer such as a MB SL 55 AMG, BMW M5, or MB C32 AMG beats a 996 in any track or in the streets! And I�m not talking about a drag race. I�m talking about handling, cornering, braking, etc. Thats why I buy a sport car for anywhay. I�ve raced an M5 on the highway just recently and it was childsplay, his extra 100HP wans�t good enough to make up for what he lost in braking and the cornering. I wouln�t get upset if another day he drives of a stoplight faster than me since thats not what I bought the car for. I�d really be pissed off if I buy an SL 55 AMG for racing in the streets and not for what it is, a luxurious hard top cab sport tourer with a massive engine and beautiful design, because any day, a 996 with just 300HP will show me his tailpipes before he disapears on the highway or a mountain road. They are really wonderful cars but cannot compete in the handling-sportiveness category with a 996 since they make a greater compromise in confort and versatility. The SL 55 AMG weights 4400lbs! but it can be very fast in a straight line, hell, it reaches 120mph before the 996 GT2! Carlos from Spain.

ALAN A. What you are missing in my comment is that Yes we are all proud owners of a great sports car. But lets me honest, I am not going to fuc k around with a guy in a Z06. If you think you are going to mess with a Z06 without a TT then you are nuts. Any equal skill drive in a Z06, will toast you anytime and anywhere and if you think driving in the wet is going to save your butt. (wishful thinking). Also, did someone mention that 911 arent exactly the most balance car. Hance Rear engine so what the fuc k are you talking about the wet stuff crap. Carlos from spain, great good for you that you think you are smoking a guy driving a Big seden. But, in a highway, i hope you got lots of slow *** turns. Because i am sure he will let you see the tailight also. So, dont act as if your hurley haywood or a great porsche driver. We are hacks at best and Yes some great local club driver. MY PT OF THIS TOPICS STATES THE LACK OF POWER FOR WHAT WE PAY. A CAR WHICH COST SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 70-100K DEPEND ON OPTIONS AND MODEL SHOULD AND DESERVE NO CHALLANGE FROM A BIG SEDEN AND ANY AMERICAN WHO COST 50K TOPS. So, Yes i love the 996 but sometimes, i get to wonder when are we going get the real deal. Sure we can pay 175-200+k for a GT2.

Sounds like a lot of have a love-hate relationship with Porsche

I didn't say I'd "mess" with a Z06. Although come to think of it it might be fun on a track. What I meant for you to 'get' is that I think a 996 is superior to a Mercedes in overall handling. If I wanted to drag race an SL55 - your comment exactly was - "Oh man, besides the Z06s running aroud now i am going to be afraid of a woman in a Mercedes at the stop light." - or for that matter a Z06, I would buy a hot rod. The cost of the dam' thing would be cheaper than a new engine and transmission, that's for sure. fyi: I also think a 2wd 996 911 WILL beat a regular Z06 anywhere in anything other than a short lap race or stoplight to stoplight. For one thing, the brakes will still work, and the engine won't cook off after the first 30 miles. Rear engine or not. My own 911 (a 996 C4S) is 4wd and I'm fairly certain in the right hands (not necessarily mine) it will cream either of the cars you mention on any track with corners, especially in the rain. I think you are angry because you lost a drag race last night to a souped up Civic, and now you want to try to blame the car rather than the driver. Watch out for those coffee can exhausts... On a more personal note, I'd like to use bigger words to illustrate my point, but based on the quality of the grammar in your reply I think you'd spend too long with the dictionary and lose the message. I hope you don't hurt anyone else the next time your doors get blown off by a C-class - and you say it like it sounds - "V8".

Alan, "fyi: I also think a 2wd 996 911 WILL beat a regular Z06 anywhere in anything other than a short lap race or stoplight to stoplight. For one thing, the brakes will still work, and the engine won't cook off after the first 30 miles. Rear engine or not." I think you are in your own planet when you state that the a Z06 will only beat a regular 996 on a short track and at the drag strip. If you are reading any car magazines other then your own. I believe they pull more G's and stop shorter. So, let me see the combo here, we got less power, less G's and less brakes(which is upto debate). What track are you planning this event(North Pole) or should i ask what planet. Finally, what makes you think the stock brakes on the porsche is that much better after 30mins. Have you ever tracked and beat your car for 30mins on a track?(you can answer where and when if you want). Another note, if i was driving a 993 and not a 996 plus a four wheel drive, you have no shot against a stock 996 so what makes you think you can take on a TIN CAN CIVIC. I think mabye you should step out of the dark ages of air cool(sorry 993 guys) and get into reality of the watercool oh then again you think we can smoke a Z06. Sorry forgot what planet you are on again? As for my comment regarding V8, I am not a tech or a engine guy. But, i believe a V8 would produce more power and has a lot less weight then a TT. (Someone can fill me in or tell me if i am wrong but i dont think that would be the case.) Less weight and more power is BAD, humm where are you again. So, finally, what big words are you planning to illustrate your pt. Instead of digging your nose in that Webster. Maybe you should spend quality time reading the real numbers on a car. Still waiting for you to give me the details of what your pt was. I know now, can wait for the nice and wet day so we can go hunting. Thanks

Well said Don Watson! I heard an honest assessment, IMHO, from a close friend recently. It went like this; �A boy racer wants a Mitsubishi Evo, any V8 powered motor, Nissan Skyline or Subaru STI when they grow up. When they do grow up however they buy an M3 because it is cheap and has lots more BHP - because they have been reading magazine articles for lads that says that more BHP makes a car handle better! When matured, they look up to a Porsche or Ferrari because well, you've just got to have one. They eventually settle on Porsche for its practicality, pedigree, superb handling, image, reliability and relative good value. When asked about their previous cars they always like to point out that a Porsche had always been their ultimate goal because it has pedigree by bucket loads!�� Funny that, those who have IT moan just because � super models and actors/actresses are best examples here. Those who don�t have bad mouth a good product and in most cases TRY to upstage it � sorry to all other super cars and their drivers! I have one, I am enjoying it, not worried about new kids on the blocks or old hats TRYING to stay young and vogue. I think others should adapt same attitude � you only live ONCE. In regards to Porsche diversifying into SUV, well that is nothing new at Porsche really. They have always diversified but for others � Audi (RS4), SEAT (IBIZA) and VW (Beatle) to name but a few. It really makes sense for them to go public with the SUV. IF we all want to enjoy the success of the brand, then we must accept that it needs to break into new market sectors in the 21st Century and beyond. Only the snubs amongst us would dispute that fact and they would rather see the brand die than be successful � hmmmm, I thought you ALL supported the brand wholeheartedly? Incidentally, keep in mind that an AMG car is not strictly a standard Mercs � a direct comparison would be something like a ROOCK, Gemballa, Techart or RUF tuned Porsche. just my little bit - don't shoot the messenger!

Bloke, you clearly missed my point. I was conmparing cars not drivers. I mentioned the race with the M5 as an example that occurred to me not long ago. BTW he took off from the toll and I floored right behind him... after watching what he was able to do for several miles (he was trying to leave me behind), I passed him comming out of a curve over 120mph, is that a fast turn for you?. The reason that a 300HP car can pass a 400HP car comming out of a turn is becacause with the 996 I could brake much later, carry a higher cornering speed and accelerate earlier out of the turn so that even with an extra 100HP he could do nothing. Its not a driver thing, the opposite would have happened if I was the one with the M5. I consider myself an average "Porsche" driver. Sure I would like more beef in the engine for the same money, but not to make it as fast as a sport tourer in a straight line. Rather to make it perform closer to a 996TT, F360M or Z06. Porsche should make an effort for example in making at least the engine upgrading kits much much cheaper for their customers. I think the extra 50HP kit for the 966TT is around $6,000 he in Spain. Carlos from Spain.

Carlos from Spain, I have no doubt you left that m5 behind but my pt of this topic is about the lack of ponies for a car which you and i paid a good money for. I think porsche makes a great margin on their cars(mabye the highest)because of a loyal base of customers (like yourself and i) and also the new ones who are lured into the porsche brand. Sorry to have come off that way(my bad) and noted. But, i mean how much more can a GT3 engine cost them to put under our hoods. That is all. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> I need a drink

I totally agree with you Bloke, the 996 is falling behind their "competitors" on horsepower, and the 320HP of the MY2002 model just doesn�t cut it. The 996 should have at least 340-350HP in my opinion for the same money. I guess my point was that the superior straight line acceleration of a C-class 32 AMG or a modified mustang for that matter doesn�t **** me off at all because the 996 even with only 300HP can still beat them in handling and performance. Though the 996 should come with more poney�s under the hood. or at least make the upgrade kit cheap. BTW the Twin Turbo version of the Cayenne (450HP)will beat the 996 on straight line acceleration, istn� that ironic... a legendary pure sportcar manufacturer will now make a SUV that will accel faster than their mythical 996... SAD <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Carlos from Spain. 996 C4 M030 18"�s Aero.

Porsche doesn't care if buyers get left behind in a drag race or other race to a Z06, C32, M5 etc. All Porsche cares about is if they themselves get left behind in the "sales race". As long as the Porsche factories are putting out product as fast as they can,and people are buying, there is no reason for Porsche to change. Of course things will change if sales decline....

Over Christmas I was driving a 2001 Lamborghini Diablo with 550hp...I came across a 360 Modena but did not race this car though I was informed I could probably leave him behind in a straight line. On the track it would be a different ballgame however as the 360 is infinitely better balanced that the Diablo VT. So what's my point? There is no way on this earth that Porsche or anyone else for that matter is going to build a car that's everything to everyone. It's just not going to happen. Well, McLaren made a car for everything and one with 300 mil in the bank. From what I've read so far the new SL500 is a car that will be able to toast a 996 in the twisties but not off the line. What will everyone make of that? How will they justify it? Will 996 drivers really care? There's always going to be some car somewhere that handles better or fits more people, or pulls better in a straight line, or corners better, or brakes harder...the list goes on and on. Buy what tickles your fancy, enjoy it and stop worrying about what the dog on the other side of the fence has. K <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

After reading the posts I have to say please mind the language as this is informative opionuons on what Porsche's path will go and to have the abusive language only lessens your point. Also i must add that it's hard to do comparison test on cars in which for example the c32 AMG vs 996-the c32 is supercharged the 996 is not. I think a fair comparison is compare the regular c320 vs 996-both normally aspirated engines. You can't compare apples with oranges especially both are different animals. A good example to compare is the e46m3 vs the 996 and I think in most people's minds they are very close in comparison. Yes it's true Porsche needs to get up there with the rest diplacementwise and hp wise so if your comparing a Porsche eight cylinder vs z06 eight cylinder that's a fair comparison. You can't compare forcefed vs NA engines because if that's the case I bet any modified nitrous/turbod/supercharged civic will beat most cars on a straight line_I've seen it happen ala modified mazda rx7. Another point as well Porsche has endured many years and served and delivered great cars on every line- from the 356/924/944/911/986 and so on and it's nice to see there's a group of faithful's for every Porsche model. It's a greatr heritage and I'm proud to be part of that. And besides if those so called c32/clk55/zo6 is killing the heck out of the 996's you can always trade for one of those faster cars and you won't have nemore regrets. Regards. Mike

Mike, Great point and that's exactly what I was trying to get at in my last post concerning all these comparisons. K <img src="graemlins/a_smil17.gif" border="0" alt="[blabla]" />

Mike, If i was the marketing guy in porsche. You are gods send dream and enfact a wet one. How can you say that a car with a turbo or supercharger cant be compare to a regular 996(a car is a car). Man, now i know why porsche has decided to make a SUV. If, my pt was that we could use a extra horses translates to GO and sell your car. Read it as your like. But, the reality is this. Porsche has lost it edge. So, if you want to be grateful and glad that you are driving a porsche based on a great heritage. Then can i sell you some ENRON stocks. I think there were a wet dream stock for a lot of investor before it went bust and to name a few others. So, if you are perfectly satisfy with it then hey good for you and you are a great true defender of porsche but please dont be navie also. Porsche has a great heritage because of performance which was second to none but paying 75-100k and not getting that second to none feeling then that doesnt work for me. That might work for some but hey not me. I like to know what i get for my money since i think all of us work hard for it. I think in my line of business it is called relative value. Good luck to you and all

To All, seems some get the point and others JUST DON'T GET IT!. It is this simple; Porsche makes, in comparison to other manufacturers, relatively small numbers in percentage terms yearly worldwide TO SPEC. None of their cars are actually just manufactured in the hope of selling it to an unsuspecting buyer � IT IS A MADE TO ORDER BUSINESS. What does that tell you all? I think that tells us all that customers are HAPPY with the product when they place their order(s). Business success is surely when your order books are FULL for any 12 months period time and time again! Thank God that the company is now profitable compared to the early 80s/90s when it was contemplating total closure. More importantly, thank God that I have a car that causes so much positive discussions amongst its owners and general public alike � does it oversteer?, does it understeer?, why an SUV?, a 996 looks to much like a Boxster, the 996TT is too slow!, when is V8s arriving?, why not a TT Cab?, how about a TT Boxster?, 996s are too heavy, others are quicker from 0 - 62, the interiors look cheap, parts are expensive, dealers are unhelpful, waiting list is too long, mine does not do a back flip nor does it get the kids from school or pays attention to me! etc etc etc. With this much interest/moans/discussions/observations, no wonder there is still a waiting list on all Porsche models. If I was Porsche, I would grateful for all the attentions � I am sure Porsche and their staffs are � and make sure we continue to make products that stir so much discussions for many years to come! Enjoy the success of a truly wonderful brand - PORSCHE.

oh, I forgot to mention! If any of you dissatisfied Porsche owners want to hand over your cars, I have access to many go-faster other cars you can have. The brand does not matter but it has LOTS of BHP - just what you are looking for. It comes ready with go faster strips. May not still be road worthy after 2 years but I guess that is OK as you are only interested in BIG BHP numbers! Form an orderly queue here sir(s). The multi-coloured paintwork over there would fit you in particular - gentleman in the smart suit!

Hi there and good day to all!! Just ahd a wonderful weekend of snowboarding and tracking at Thunderhill Race coarse. Bloke, you seem very passionate about cars as I am myself and from your basis that straightline performance seems the most important criteria in a car. I know that it is one of the elements in evaluating a car but you know as well as me almost anyone can design a car to accelarate fast from a starightline from pt A to pt B. You also have to evaluate the whole package itself will all that power also transfer well on the track. Porsche was never known for straight on accelaration as I have never heard any Porsche winning any Drag racing titles or participated in any suped up Japanese import car drags like you see on those "SportCompactCar" magazines. What you do have in a Porsche is the whole package decent power on accelaration with ungodly like effort on the track. It may seem that 300-320 hp is low compared with the high hp numbers of amg's but the question remains is that high hp on the amg's all usable on the track? With the Porsche you have all 300-320 hp fully utilized on the track and with its chassis/suspension/brake design it's the car I want . You have a credible argument that there is always a relative value in everything and it all depends on what you want to get from the car. Maybe the Porsche is not for you but I would invite you to take the opportunity to maybe take a HI performance racing coarse and know the car before you make the final judgment. When I first took out my 996 on the track and learning how to apex/brake/throttle the first two runs I was getting my buns killed by little cars like integra's and civics and said to myself did I spend 70-85k for this car. But having to work with a instructor had expertise with Porsche's he showed the true traits of a Porsche- all out usable power on the track. My instructor drove my car and I was the passenger and he took me thru the track and I was just amazed how agile and predictable the car was driving and I took that to heart on my next two runs(very short learning curve driving the 996 when the insructor drives your car and your the passenger)and from that day on I have no regrets buying the 996. Also I must add I fell in love with Porsche when I was younger but it wasn't actually the 911 that I liked but the 928. I don't know if you ever seen the movie "Risky Business" with Tom Cruise but when he said those words "there is no substitute" -it rang true. I know this is getting long but also with respect to AMG's great touring cars for what it is(great on the street) but there's alot of straightline fast cars out there. A Suped up Mazda rx7 twin turbo will destroy any AMG straightline even the z07. Read what's out there on "SportCompactCar" and you see and it'll cost less to modify an rx-7 then buying a brand new C32/clk55. Its all personal preference anyway. A good analogy would be comparing a ROLEX watch/Panerai/Patek Phillipe/Timex-they all tell time but which do you choose. Oh the choices. Regards. MIke

Interms of the Porsche plans to have that SUV made it maybe a sign that future 911's will have an eight cylinder and rest assured Porsche will answer to all that wanted larger hp and dominate the racing world both in the ALMS and the RallySport world with the Cayenne which Porsche has been dormant in the Rally division. And I can't think of anyone other then Porsche that can dominate both and hopefully if an 8 cylinder is destined for the 911 I'm hoping the tracking charateristics and the look are retained from years past with all 911's. It's great to see older 911's still out there and treated so meticulously well : ). Regards.Mike

996FLT6, Thanks for your insight into how to drive my car, but, let me assure you that i am capable with my car. But, hey few extra laps wouldnt hurt anyone will it. I dont disgree with you nor anyone else regarding the balance of the car. But, i wouldnt mind getting some extra under the hood. KNOW WHAT I MEAN. So, i feel as this is going around in circles, when i mention few extra horses would be great. you guys keep mentioning the balance. Sure, the great balance with an extra whomp. Now that would be better the that fat rolex on your wrist. Well far is the 997 or whatever it will be called. I think we are going to get the V8. So, then i will have to find something else to moan about. Drive safely and drive quick.

Good grief, it's not like there's a shortage of aftermarket companies out there getting more HP out of the 996 or 993 or any other Porsche platform for that matter, turbo or normally aspirated. If 320 isn't enough for you then send your car to a tuner and be done with it. I was talking to someone from the whole import scene the other day and he has a race prepared CRX Honda for the drag strip. The 4 cyl turbo car puts out 310hp at the front wheels (360 at the flywheel) and runs the quarter in 11.8. If you were to meet this car on the street and be hell bent on drag racing him you'd probably lose. However, that is what his car is set up for, nothing else, it's not a liveable car by any stretch of the imagination and the engine lasts 6 months between rebuilds. Speaking of a Z06 Vette, I went to look at one over the weekend and I didn't do much beyond sit in the car idling. It had 10,000 miles on it and was beautiful but my 928S4 engine with 118,000 miles was smoother. If it weren't for the rear muffler bypass on my car and the VERY occasional rocking motion you wouldn't know it was on. The Vette rocked this way and that and didn't sound particularly smooth. I had the urge to put more oil in the engine. Anyway pushrod technology at it's best huh? K <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Reading between the lines I think Bloke is asking if we don't feel ripped off for paying 75k - 100k and only getting 320hps (for '02 models anyways). Or he is just bemoaning what he feels are the shortcomings of the car? That's what I get from reading his post. My answer to feeling regrets is a resounding "NO". I could of bought a Z06 and saved 45k, beaten' most cars off the line but IMHO the vette feels cheap and doesn't come with the prestige that a Porsche does. Plus, overall handling is used by me more than burning rubber off the line. I don't know about you but I spend more time taking curves and doing short burst of speeds after I get rolling rather than drag racing. And besides, you'll never own the fastest car, or have the most money in the world or be the best looking. Just won't happen. Someone, somewhere at some point will out do you. I think Bloke, what most people are saying to you is they don't consider getting beaten by an AMG (or a Z06) to be reason to feel Porsche has failed in some aspect. Alot of us bought the Porsche knowing there were faster cars out there. The Porsche is great as is because, as many have already stated here, it IS the best balanced car you can get right now. I am content. I bought it because it looks awesome,drives awesome and manages to be faster than a good portion of the cars on the road today. If 0-60 is what you want then go to another brand. Because I don't think Porsche is going to ever be THE fastest from 0-60 For any length of time. Let's say they do come out with a V8. How long before Chevy (or any other automaker) drops more HPs in the vette (or whatever) and out does the Porsche. It's a never ending cycle. Quibbs *Looks like a pump, feels like a sneaker.

Actually Bloke I wear a Panerai. Makes up for my small pecker. Average watch diameter is about 37mm my Panerai is 44mm. I've gained approximately 7mm in size and thats without Viagra : ). It's great to hear all opinions. Feels like when I was a young high schooler in the debating team- pro or con? Regards. MIke