Towing a 911 on a trailer to the South of France - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

I'm currently in the process of buying a holiday home in the South of France. I'll likely be going for periods of 3-4 weeks at a time, several times a year between April and November. I also have a new 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet on order, as to when it will arrive, god only knows!! So, I'm thinking about the best way to get it down there. I'm not comfortable leaving the car in France all year round, just in case it gets stolen. Plus my insurers won't allow that. So I was considering buying a Brian James Trailer and taking it down, towing it with a Range Rover at time of each visit. I've a few questions, and would be very grateful if anyone out there can help with these: 1. If I proceed with this plan. I'm going to go on a trailer course with all the caravaners!! (can't wait), so will hopefully gain some knowledge from that, but is towing a Porsche quite straightforward, or a tricky business? 2. Is towing a vehicle for private use generally accepted by most insurers, and will the Porsche be covered if I'm towing it on a trailer and an incident occurs? 3. Has anyone else towed a trailer to France, and if so, did you take the Eurotunnel, and did towing another car create problems, for example, double charge, as double length (although I can live with that), or perhaps questions like "where are you going with that Porsche"! I would just drive it down each time, but we have two large dogs, so that's not going to work. Any advice or alternative suggestions / ideas would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Why not buy a left hand drive S/H 911 down there and leave it. A 997 or 991.1 cab would do the job nicely and not cost the Earth. Trailering a car down might be fun the first time.

This ^^^ Seems a really slow way to get to The South of France dragging a shed each time. And thirsty Surely there is a way to source and keep a car in a lock up or similar for large parts of the year with a dash back to the UKnonce or twice to keep insurers happy ? Hell probably even cheaper / easier to go in Convoy - RR and 911 that dragging it there ?? (Plus a crapload more fun)

I’ve towed our trailer (boat not 911) behind a Defender all the way to Greece via France, Switzerland and Italy so same principle. I was relatively nervous re regs before I set off - had all the 90 stickers etc and stuck to all limits. In reality was super easy and actually quite fun. No issues with eurotunnel or anything else except customs get a little interested so more hassle post Brexit and needed to see boat paperwork and inspect. I left the boat at our place there so didn’t come back through customs with it. Wouldn’t have thought you’d have any issues at all. Would be more fun to drive the 911 tho’! This year I’m driving the Spyder down. BTW I keep a tax & MOT exempt classic out there as I want something to keep there if I fly out at short notice and don’t want the hassle of having to bring it back to MOT it etc. Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 07:44

It might be worth speaking to a vehicle transport logistics company to see if this is a service you could pay someone to do for you? I'm just thinking that once you've done the trailer test, bought a trailer, insurance, thought about where to store the trailer when not in use etc. it is likely to of absorbed alot of your time and paying someone to transport the vehicle for you would actually be good value.

An interesting idea.... I drive down to the Med most years in a classic car. It's a long way, but the drive is part of the holiday, I enjoy it. No way would I do it with a trailer! What I used to do in days of yore, was to drive down over 3 days and my wife and kids would fly down and I'd meet them at the other end. Might that work for you? When you take your longest holiday in France, drive there and drive back in the 911 - otherwise leave at home for the shorter breaks to the new house.

Thank you Billy Whizzzz, David W. and PushedDover, these are exactly the kind of comments and ideas I'm wanting to hear. Firstly, Billy Whizzzzz, it's reassuring to hear that you got all the way to Greece without any problems. I've done that exact route before down to Brindisi (or was it Bari) then across to Corfu, albeit without a trailer. I don't know if you remember it, but that final day's driving through Italy to the Ferry was one of the most boring pieces of road I've ever driven, just long, straight and dull, it seemed to go on forever...... Overall though, that adventure from UK to Greece, and ferry over to Corfu was one of the most memorable journeys of my life. Would definitely do it again. David W. - A really good point and one I'm seriously considering, possibly even an older RHD. The issue I've got, is that the house is in quite a rural location, there's a barn with no doors but no garage, so the car will be left exposed. I'm hoping to get planning permission for a garage, or restore the barn, but either will likely take time. If you were going for a cheaper 911 (must be cabriolet), I'm thinking probably £40k mark, what would be the general consensus for what to buy? Also, is security quite good on these older cars? PushDover - I agree. it's a bit of a pain having to drag it backwards and forwards, but the problem I have, is my wife won't drive long distances over there, so we can't travel in convoy and we have two large dogs, so I'd have to drive down with them and then fly back to get the car. As we're planning to come and go for probably 3-4 weeks at a time, I think it would be too much backwards and forwards. So, I know where you're coming from, but because of the trip frequency, I'm not sure it would work. In terms of insurers, I know it's a bit naughty, but I thought if the car's there for extended periods, as long as I can show an outbound Ferry ticket, that kind of backs up its arrival day in France, and will save me going backwards and forwards with the car (I think 90 days is the limit). Can anyone see why not? As mentioned above, would love to hear suggestions on the best 911 cab, something low to mid mileage, circa £40-£50k, but still a pleasure to drive? Thanks to all for your advice on this

Thanks also to kel176506 and NDA, These are all very good points, but the problem I have, is that I'm the sort of person who gets bored easily. So, the plan with this house, is that we'll go for a few weeks, tire of the routine and heat in France (which you do), then we'll come home, quickly tire of the rain and grey skies and go back. Hopefully this will give us good variety and balance between April and late October. We do love life here in the UK, but the summer's here can be so depressing, likewise though, being in the sun for extended periods can also become tiresome. So because of this trip frequency, sourcing out transportation, or travelling separately when we've also got the dogs to take with us, unfortunately wouldn't work. Thanks both for the suggestions though.

Mulsanne-Speed said: So because of this trip frequency, sourcing out transportation, or travelling separately when we've also got the dogs to take with us, unfortunately wouldn't work. Thanks both for the suggestions though. Rock and a hard place.... If you're travelling frequently to France at short (ish) notice, when the mood takes you.... then leaving a car there makes much more sense than trailering it down every time. Is there a secure garage you could rent or buy? There must be a solution to the security issue.

Personally I did not particularly enjoy towing my BJ RT6, it is an awesome trailer, but getting somewhere takes a very long time - even if you can do 100 kph. I sold it recently as I did not have storage for it (they take up a lot of space) anymore and then decided to get rid of track car and trailer as even going to my favourite track c. 220km distance was grating after a while. Generally speaking towing a car is very easy, my trailer had lift function and a winch, so I could load and unload on my own without any issues. I would not hesitate to recommend the trailer. But if I were you, I would buy a LHD 911 and leave it there - saves you travel time, probably money (in the long run) and you don't have to worry about possibly having to argue with your UK insurance in case of a claim.

just to add re having a car transported - I had one transported on a covered trailer from SE England to Munich and it cost c. GBP 3k

Just a thought. Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend the money you plan to spend on trailer, trailering, ferries etc on making the barn secure? BTW, I have a 365/365 Green Card but the insurer stipulates that I must be with or near the car at all times, so I’m not covered if I leave it at my holiday home and come back to the UK.

There are UK-based car transport firms going there the whole time, sometimes with empty trailers either way. And storage in UK. Give Chris Day a call. https://www.macklogistics.co.uk/ website is slow but he is 100% reliable and recommended. +44(0)1252 543 555 It is a bloody long way towing and you will get fed up with it. Great roads and fun stops notwithstanding.

Mulsanne-Speed said: Thank you Billy Whizzzz, David W. and PushedDover, these are exactly the kind of comments and ideas I'm wanting to hear. Firstly, Billy Whizzzzz, it's reassuring to hear that you got all the way to Greece without any problems. I've done that exact route before down to Brindisi (or was it Bari) then across to Corfu, albeit without a trailer. I don't know if you remember it, but that final day's driving through Italy to the Ferry was one of the most boring pieces of road I've ever driven, just long, straight and dull, it seemed to go on forever...... Overall though, that adventure from UK to Greece, and ferry over to Corfu was one of the most memorable journeys of my life. Would definitely do it again. Ha yes took the trailer to Bari and you’re right about that stretch - I now go from Ancona on the super fast to Corfu - MUCH better!!!

Thank you all for your comments. I think MDL111 is maybe right, the answer probably is going to be, securing the barn and leaving a car there. The problem with that, is that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with leaving circa £150k 911 C4S there all the time, so what do I do with the car I have on order. I guess I could take it down in April, bringing it back in October. Or maybe see if there's a professional storage company in or around Toulouse, which is not far away for the winter months. I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications. Alternatively, I could save some money and go for an older 911 cab - My questions are: Is the 997 now considered a bit dated to drive (I'm not bothered about tech, just the car feeling "together")? With prices so strong at present, is the 991 considered too much money, when you can pick up a 992 for not a lot more? Would love to know your thoughts on this alternative option. Many thanks again.

From experience leaving a car at a holiday home is a ball ache. And keeping a 911 in rural France where there will be no local specialist to look after it seems especially troublesome to me. The car won't like being left unattended for long periods, the battery will go flat, rodents will nest in the engine bay, etc etc. Then there is road tax, insurance, it's an asset and probably subject to some sort of wealth tax in France, i think it will be far more hassle than any enjoyment can offset. As for towing the car down there, no thanks. And i used to tow a race car all over the UK, but down to the south of France and having to deal with border control each way, errrr nah. Just buy an old French car and keep that on site. Like a 2CV or a R4. Perfect.

^^^ Left field but likeable. Or a Mini Mike type fun car? You'll have the RR there for proper journeys, so a 'rural rustic' convertible may have it's place? As for leaving a 911 there - if nothing else, this day an age with trackers, online web cams / security and even car monitoring, its probably never been safer to leave a car somewhere (with respect to the thieves.) Rodents etc? A Cat or other countermeasures may work ..

Mulsanne-Speed said: Thank you all for your comments. I think MDL111 is maybe right, the answer probably is going to be, securing the barn and leaving a car there. The problem with that, is that I'm not sure I'm comfortable with leaving circa 150k 911 C4S there all the time, so what do I do with the car I have on order. I guess I could take it down in April, bringing it back in October. Or maybe see if there's a professional storage company in or around Toulouse, which is not far away for the winter months. I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications. Alternatively, I could save some money and go for an older 911 cab - My questions are: Is the 997 now considered a bit dated to drive (I'm not bothered about tech, just the car feeling "together")? With prices so strong at present, is the 991 considered too much money, when you can pick up a 992 for not a lot more? Would love to know your thoughts on this alternative option. Many thanks again. There’s a huge range of 997s - avoid 997.1 but a good 997.2 is v useable. I have solved by keeping an old soft top series 2 Land Rover out there that I bumble around in without door tops so n and canvas rolled up, which means if I just turn up at short notice there’s something there that’s fun, low maintenance, doesn’t mind being left and I can tow boat around and go to beach. But if I go for longer planned stretches I drive the Spyder down. So best of both worlds.

Mulsanne-Speed said: I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications. You need to be resident in France to register a car there, I’m afraid.

psi310398 said: Mulsanne-Speed said: I suppose, I could register and insure it in France, but following Brexit, I'm not sure that will be straightforward, or if there will be any tax implications. You need to be resident in France to register a car there, I’m afraid. In Germany you can register via a local person that accepts your mail for you. All my cars are registered that way - possibly a similar option exists in France (of course that requires you knowing somebody who is happy to do that for you). Car and insurance are in your name but the address on file is the third-party (so they can send you your tickets etc.)

Thank you all, you've given me a lot to think about..... But these are all exactly the kind of points I wanted raising to help me make a decision, so all comments and all angles are greatly appreciated. I certainly don't want to become a resident in France, as that has all kinds of tax implications. The reality of trailering this car seems like it's going to be too much of a headache, so I think I' m going to have to scrap that idea. Instead, I think I'll do as someone suggested, and instead spend the trailer money on restoring the barn. I know a comment was made about a lack of specialists, so maybe the new car under warranty may be the better choice, as it will only be there for the summer months. One concern about that though, is if the new car has a Tracker, and is out of the UK for more than 90 days, if the insurers could obtain this information in the event of a theft, it could invalidate my policy - Could be a dear do!! Alternatively, I may consider something older, like a 997 gen 2 as MDL111 suggested, or perhaps, something completely different. There is a lot to be said for old cars that don't cost much and you don't have to worry about, so I may seriously consider some other kind of old convertible. I note a comment was made about Porsche's not liking being left standing, although this shouldn't be for more than 3-4 weeks at any time. If left on a C-TEK charger for this period, should it be OK? Thanks once again for all your comments - I do feel like I'm beginning to reach a conclusion

Most of my cars are not moved for months on end (eg usually from October to March/April), so I think that should be fine (sure it would be better to drive them regularly but that is not always possible) Good luck - shopping for a car certainly more exciting than for a trailer

I'm a lazy sod, so I would consider refurbishing the barn too much of an effort, and probably too costly to boot. You'd have to hire some locals, supervise their work, curse at them in French, etc. Bo-ring. I would try to find a respectable car storage place in the Toulouse area. A brief google search for "Porsche" and "storage / gardiennage" turned up some candidates, some clearly more promising than others. https://www.autoclassic.fr/ https://garagedayraut.com/ Warning, alpha male ahead: https://www.exclusivescars.com/gardiennage-exclusi... Or just ask the Porsche Club Toulose / Gascogne: https://www.toulouse-gascogne-porscheclub.fr/Porsc... Edited by Fink-Nottle on Tuesday 24th May 13:48

Mulsanne-Speed said: Thanks also to kel176506 and NDA, These are all very good points, but the problem I have, is that I'm the sort of person who gets bored easily. So, the plan with this house, is that we'll go for a few weeks, tire of the routine and heat in France (which you do), then we'll come home, quickly tire of the rain and grey skies and go back. Hopefully this will give us good variety and balance between April and late October. We do love life here in the UK, but the summer's here can be so depressing, likewise though, being in the sun for extended periods can also become tiresome. So because of this trip frequency, sourcing out transportation, or travelling separately when we've also got the dogs to take with us, unfortunately wouldn't work. Thanks both for the suggestions though. Hi Where are you buying in France? We are currently in Aurignac, having been here for five weeks. On Sunday the temperature was 34’c, today the high is 15’c so it’s not consistent heat. March and November can also be really nice t shirt weather and more day light than the UK. For four years I would drive my 911 down, with my wife in tow carrying the dog and all the bags, twice a year. I considered a trailer, but I came to the concussion it would be a pain. Having the two cars gave us a lot of freedom when choosing hotels. We also varied the route each time so as to enjoy more French roads. It was really good fun.

I have a house in the South of France and a 911. I just drive there! 800 miles in a day no problems. You will be fine as long as you haven't got a silly version with zero suspension. Sometimes I go a bit further where we have a flat in Barcelona. It is easy too at 1,250 miles on the excellent roads. Avoid red and black days though. I love the drive. The 911 goes 400 miles on a tank, I have a Sanif Tag for the tolls, it is great. Eat off the motorway at an excellent Les Routiers, pull off at mid day. First time Mr Macron got elected, I got 5 speeding tickets in one day. I was really impressed with myself as they turned up at my UK home address over the next 6 weeks. Bet we dont issue them in return!. He turned the timer down on the average speed cameras and it cost me 45 euros a go. Wasn't going that quick either. They are REALLY on it. So watch that one. I also have tried every option of leaving a car at the house and flying. Forget it. Flat batteries, mice, servicing, insurance, MOTs all the rest. Try registering a car in France with their bureaucracy! It is not like lovely old England where you fill out a form and send it off. You need a Gateway number, proof of residence, 3 copies on the sales receipt etc, etc, etc. I have left the simplest and the Frenchest cars I could think of over the last 30 years in the garage over there, a 59 2CV, a Renault 4 TL, an Citroen LNA, Citroen DS, Citroen Ami. All a disaster. Battery tenders the whole lot. Cars hate being left unattended even in a dry garage. I swear they sulk. They just will give you stress when you wake them up. By the time I have parked the car at the airport, waited, flown, disembarked, got a hire car etc, I wish I had just driven anyway. Driving in France is lovely, the Autoroutes are superb, the N roads are great too.

Two large dogs complicate things somewhat. Maybe alternate the trips with RR and dogs, then 911 sans chiens. Or get a dog wagon that will be a bit more fun to drive when you're down there?

Could you obtain an old shipping container and put that in the barn and store 911 in that. Gets round rodent damage as well.

politeperson said: Eat off the motorway at an excellent Les Routiers, pull off at mid day. I've been driving yearly through France for the past 20yrs but not sure I'm aware of this. Do tell more! politeperson said: Driving in France is lovely, the Autoroutes are superb, the N roads are great too. Agreed! For me it all falls down once you arrive at the Eurotunnel terminal!

What experience do you have of towing a large trailer? I have towed large boats for many years and it’s not as easy as it may seem. Every year I see new boat owners struggling with their trailers, especially with reversing. I realise you may have your heart set on a 911, but in your shoes I’d be looking at a Panamera Sport or just use your RR - drive there with your wife and dogs, then drive home. If you want a convertible to drive while you’re there, get a 987.2 LHD Boxster and keep it inside a Carcoon, on a trickle charger inside the barn. Spend some money on securing the barn, getting it connected to mains electricity, etc. It’s not a bad problem to have!

Could you join a car club of some sort and rent something fun for the time that you are at the place in France? Means you could (depending on the size of the club, if of course such things exist in France) have something different if that took your fancy, and you don't need to worry about looking after it, taking it with you, securing it, or paying VAT and import on it etc etc.

Firstly, sorry, I've been away for a couple of days. MDL111, Thank you, and yes, I think I've decided to completely scrap the trailer idea. Fink-Nottle - Thank you for your suggestions, and also for taking the time to investigate this and share your findings. Claret M - Thank you also for sharing your first-hand experience of what I will be going in to. As you point out, the weather will not be consistent, but what we're looking forward to is being able to pick and choose. If the weather's poor in the UK and better in France, we'll go there. Likewise, if France gets too hot in the summer, we'll return to England. I think the trailer idea is now well and truly shelved, so will look at the best way to travel down with my wife, dogs and multiple cars, initially at least, then perhaps consider France storage options. Thanks again. Polite person - Thank you also for sharing your experiences - 800 - 1,250 miles in a day!!!! That's really going some, especially when you don't even look old enough to drive in that photo!!!! ???? Joking aside, we drove from East Sussex to Bordeaux in a day in our 5.0 Range Rover, and that was as much as I could manage (6am to 6pm), so you must have been mainlining coffee to do that. It was good to read you comments though. We need to get a Tag on the next journey, my wife's getting really hacked off with the Tolls. Last visit was worse, as we took the dogs in the Range Rover and fitted a roof box. We quickly learned, that if you go through the toll with a roof box, the sensors think you're a truck, so the machine dispenses the ticket about 7ft off the ground, not easy for my wife having to climb out and up through the passenger window. No speeding tickets yet Polite Person, but only been back 5 days following our most recent visit, so some may follow. Registering a car in France sounds like a headache, and one I'd rather avoid, thanks for the heads up on that. I hope to spend more time on the N roads when we get the new house and are in less of a hurry. We used the Autoroutes for the most part on the last couple of trips - From what I've experienced so far, virtually all French roads are an absolute joy to drive on, a complete world away from the UK, and a great place for cars like 911's, where you can enjoy and appreciate the firmer suspension set ups, without being shaken to death!! Braddo - You are right - Dogs do complicate matters, and based on your knowing comment, I suspect you're probably a dog owner yourself. We have two Pyrenean Mountain Dogs, one is 80kg, the other 60kg, so these are not easy creatures to travel with. I'm sure we'll come up with something, but as you suggest, it may be a case of alternating the cars. Johnmaddox - Good point, my brother uses shipping containers for storing excess stock for his business, from what I understand, they're extremely secure things - Maybe a thought. RiccardoG - Completely agree regarding returning to the EuroTunnel Terminal Pete.g - Thank you for your advice earlier, some good and sensible points you make. I did think about an older Boxster, but I've got this 911 Cab on order, if I don't use it in France, I wont use it here. That said, I'll see how it all goes, if it becomes too much trouble, I may do as you suggest with a cheaper option, which I won't worry about and sell the 911 later. Dammit - Thank you, good point. It might be worth looking into this - That said, because the house is in quite a rural location, get a car backwards and forwards could prove problematic. Finally, thank you to all for your comments. They're all greatly appreciated. On a slightly different note....... I think I'm going to change my 911 order from a Carrera 4S Cabriolet to a 911 Turbo Cabriolet. I know the Turbo S is supposed to be the one to buy, but I prefer the squarer exhaust at the rear on the standard Turbo, (plus it's about 20k cheaper). Does anyone think that a standard Turbo will be a mistake, in terms of future values and desirability, with the Turbo S being held in such high regard? Edited by Mulsanne-Speed on Thursday 26th May 22:06

If you want it transported, that's what I do https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=13... If you want advice on trailers or strapping etc just ask, happy to help, knocking on for 2 million miles at it. Just be aware even with your own car on your own trailer the French customs have been issuing fines, Brexit eh! The gift that keeps on giving

As an example

FWIW, I find driving long distances with a car trailer quite relaxing. Set the cruise for 60ish, plod along in the slow lane and watch the world go by. If you know you're not in a hurry you can just settle in and enjoy the journey.

seiben said: FWIW, I find driving long distances with a car trailer quite relaxing. Set the cruise for 60ish, plod along in the slow lane and watch the world go by. If you know you're not in a hurry you can just settle in and enjoy the journey. Yes - bearing in mind it’s 60 mph limit on multi lane and 50 mph on single carriage.

Thanks iguana, seiben and pete.g - On reflection, I think I'm going to scrap the idea of trailering, and probably look at storage, or 3-6. month intervals in France, before a trip back to the UK. Thanks again for all the comments though

As someone who loves Porsches / 911s I’m going to go out on a limb and say a Turbo cab wouldn’t be my first choice for a holiday car that you weren’t going to drive there. They excel at covering huge distances very quickly, but as you’re trailering it there, and want something (I presume) that feels a real event for popping to the beach or into town or for spirited drives in the hills, I’d be looking at a brightly coloured Italian exotic!

Mulsanne-Speed said: Thanks iguana, seiben and pete.g - On reflection, I think I'm going to scrap the idea of trailering, and probably look at storage, or 3-6. month intervals in France, before a trip back to the UK. Thanks again for all the comments though I'd suggest looking into how that can be done, legally, as customs may treat such a temporary import as a permanent import, and that would be VAT+duty+fee on the total value of the vehicle. There may very well be a grace period - but how do you prove that to the customs officers would be the question I'd be asking myself.

Dammit said: I'd suggest looking into how that can be done, legally, as customs may treat such a temporary import as a permanent import, and that would be VAT+duty+fee on the total value of the vehicle. There may very well be a grace period - but how do you prove that to the customs officers would be the question I'd be asking myself. 6 months for temporary import, the channel crossing ticket & your passport stamp as proof, or that visa thing coming in next Yr. I'd need to double check but I think you could get 12 months on a carnet.

What was different for your chaps with the rally car that they needed a carnet rather than ticket+passport stamps?

I did consider Ferrari Billy_whizzz, but decided reliability and larger dealer network would be better with Porsche. You make good points Dammit and iguana, all things to consider and I'm glad you raised it, the last thing I want is a bill like that. As we're buying a house in France, we'll be on a VLS-TS (Long Stay Visa / Residents Permit), this allows us to stay in the country for up to 12 months, I suspect the same would apply to the cars, but a valid point and one I'll certainly check in to. Edited by Mulsanne-Speed on Sunday 29th May 11:27

I think I would rent a 911 in France. Google “Porsche Drive” if you’re not familiar with it. Everything else sounds like a pain.

Apologies if this had been suggested but why not just but a LHD French registered one and keep it there? I often leave my cars on battery tenders and they’re generally always fine. Even the old stuff I leave at our holiday place and use sporadically. The advantage of having something there all the time is you can look at the weather forecast and jump on a plane with little ore planning. As I just did… (not quite a turbo S but better for the roads here… when I come off the ferry in something fast and low I can’t use it and also in the series I don’t worry about sand and sun cream).

I have done maybe 75,000km towing trailers with cars on them. I cannot provide useful information about the regulations from the UK to France, but here are a couple of things to consider. I think a practical issue to to install a proper trailer controller in the tow vehicle so you can set the brake bias on the trailer. We have a routine: make sure the car is balanced on the trailer so the tongue weight on the towbar is right. Check lights; drive for a km, stop and recheck that tiedowns are good. Text braking to make sure bias is right. ( I once had a situation in Utah, was passing an 18 wheeler when a car made an fast illegal run across the median and stopped in my lane. I could not turn into the other lane as the truck was there so full on emergency braking, felt as if it would not stop, but brakes were properly set so no jack knifing). A couple of my cars below:

Billy_Whizzzz said: I’ve towed our trailer (boat not 911) behind a Defender all the way to Greece via France, Switzerland and Italy so same principle. Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Tuesday 24th May 07:44 Hey Billy, I would be very interested in knowing about driving to Greece. I am about to move out there and plan to move my Turbo and R8 out there back at least once a year. Might tow them or ship them? I note the route you gave wasn’t the shortest and others has said travel via Italy. Is that because of safety? Many thanks, Tom

Thanks for sharing RDMcg - To be honest, I think I've scrapped the idea of towing the trailer after all. Sounds like you've got a good procedure in place for safe towing, but as I'm not really a practical person, it just goes further to reinforce that it's probably not going to work for me. Billy_Whizzzz, an older vehicle is still very much on the cards, and a strong possibility. Last Sunday we returned from a return trip to Tuscany with the dogs in our 15 year old Range Rover, which is still going strong. I'm not bothered what I drive as long as it gives me some kind of pleasure. I'm going to proceed with my 911 order, upgrading it to a Turbo S, but whether or not that will be the car that's right for the house in France, remains to be seen. This post has been really useful though, and given me a lot to think about. To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need.

findtomdotcom said: Hey Billy, I would be very interested in knowing about driving to Greece. I am about to move out there and plan to move my Turbo and R8 out there back at least once a year. Might tow them or ship them? I note the route you gave wasn’t the shortest and others has said travel via Italy. Is that because of safety? Many thanks, Tom Safety and driving in Italy are two words that don't go together Tom, I returned last Sunday and it's absolutely mental!! You'll get through it alright, but it's not what I'd call relaxing. I too, like Billy drove from England to Corfu a few years ago. You can get the ferry from Bari (or Brindisi I think), although I think Billy said he was getting a boat from further up now. I'm sure he'll come back to advise.

Mulsanne-Speed said: findtomdotcom said: Hey Billy, I would be very interested in knowing about driving to Greece. I am about to move out there and plan to move my Turbo and R8 out there back at least once a year. Might tow them or ship them? I note the route you gave wasn’t the shortest and others has said travel via Italy. Is that because of safety? Many thanks, Tom Safety and driving in Italy are two words that don't go together Tom, I returned last Sunday and it's absolutely mental!! You'll get through it alright, but it's not what I'd call relaxing. I too, like Billy drove from England to Corfu a few years ago. You can get the ferry from Bari (or Brindisi I think), although I think Billy said he was getting a boat from further up now. I'm sure he'll come back to advise. Sorry yes only just seen this. We have a place in Corfu so quickest way is via Italy. I love the drive and generally do it for 6 weeks in the summer and fly the other times. A good car is useless there, so keep the old Landy there, but when I drive generally go in something nicer! The ferry to Corfu goes on to Igoumenitsa on mainland Greece. Italy is mental but fun. I used to do ferry drom Bari but now Ancona as cuts out the last boring leg to Bari. But the overnight stays in Italy are wonderful (and Switzerland). I have had quotes to ship cars - not massively expensive but never have - my mechanic has driven a couple of them out for me and my neighbour bright my wife’s car back once. I like the drive - actually look forward to it! Edited by Billy_Whizzzz on Sunday 29th May 21:28

Have done Athens a couple of times for work, via Ancona ferry, absolutely not interested in driving overland with an expensive car on board.

Not wising to hijack the thread and this is not a criticism but with the 911 on the trailer should it not be the other way around i.e. engine on or ahead of the trailer wheels if that makes sense ? I have followed your posts for years and you clearly know what your doing towing. I ask as I hate putting mine on backwards onto a tilt trailer !! Phib A couple of my cars below:

The engine of the car on the trailer should definitely be nearest the towing vehicle, as that reduces the effect of the mass on any pendulum movements. For normal cars that's drive on forwards, for 911s it's reverse it on. It makes a real difference to stability.

If you can afford to keep a car permanently in France that’s probably the best idea. And I would opt for a LHD car that you can MOT once a year in Britain. Don’t forget visibility on mountain and sweeping roads is much better when you sitting on the “right” side of the car. As for transport. There’s plenty of companies that do it. I tend to always use Menabue/Menabetz these days to and from Italy. All the others seem to be massively more expensive. They are top notch. And cheaper (but not cheap). Sometimes others can do deals to south of France when filling a truck but rare. I really did consider the trailer myself. And have not ruled it out completely. It would be amortised in one round trip. How bad can it be, take it easy, steady does it. Dutch people trailer their monstrosities across Europe every single summer.. If you have space to park the trailer when idle and have the right vehicle to tow I think you should not get discouraged. If you ready to pay, call Menabue and book a transfer.

phib said: Not wising to hijack the thread and this is not a criticism but with the 911 on the trailer should it not be the other way around i.e. engine on or ahead of the trailer wheels if that makes sense ? I have followed your posts for years and you clearly know what your doing towing. I ask as I hate putting mine on backwards onto a tilt trailer !! Phib A couple of my cars below: We have ,measurement on the trailer for various cars and we balance them at a commercial weighbridge so that we has see the tongue weight which should be neutral. The 011s are usually a bar forward to balance the trailer and are not that heavy anyway. Might be different in Europe but over here they are inevitably facing forward. Easier to load and unload too.

RDMcG said: We have ,measurement on the trailer for various cars and we balance them at a commercial weighbridge so that we has see the tongue weight which should be neutral. The 011s are usually a bar forward to balance the trailer and are not that heavy anyway. Might be different in Europe but over here they are inevitably facing forward. Easier to load and unload too. What do you mean by 'neutral' ? I'd have thought you'd want as much tongue / nose weight as possible ? Things can get out of hand very quickly with too little & at zero, I'd expect a very laggy tail......

I don’t know if it’s been offered before but me and/ or my son would happily drop it down for you at the start of the season and bring it back at the end for petrol and tolls.

Mulsanne-Speed said: To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need. That gives you quite a lot of scope - anything from a resto-mod MG, a Citroen DS Decapotable, a Mercedes SL (R109), Jaguar E Type, XK to a simple MX5. LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS.

pete.g said: Mulsanne-Speed said: To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need. That gives you quite a lot of scope - anything from a resto-mod MG, a Citroen DS Decapotable, a Mercedes SL (R109), Jaguar E Type, XK to a simple MX5. LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS. I was going to suggest a well sorted Mk1 MX5 too

Carbon Sasquatch said: What do you mean by 'neutral' ? I'd have thought you'd want as much tongue / nose weight as possible ? Things can get out of hand very quickly with too little & at zero, I'd expect a very laggy tail...... I should have been clear, 5-600 lbs is fine typically, but you need to know the tongue weight capacity of the tow vehicle. Typically a loaded trailer for me is about 5500lbs, Cayenne V8 tow capacity is 7700lbs so this is comfortable. I measure the tow vehicle and loaded trailer on the commercial weighbrige so I can see the load in each axle..

For anyone that hasn’t towed a trailer this is interesting. https://youtu.be/6mW_gzdh6to

pete.g said: Mulsanne-Speed said: To be honest, as long as the roof comes off and I can drive 10 minutes each way to the nearest village for some pastries in the morning, then that's really all I need. That gives you quite a lot of scope - anything from a resto-mod MG, a Citroen DS Decapotable, a Mercedes SL (R109), Jaguar E Type, XK to a simple MX5. LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS. Indeed. A Citroen DS Decapotable would be wonderful and / or a electric conversion of something like a 2CV like Blibs Fiat 500.... Fab ! just look at it ! https://www.carscoops.com/2020/07/is-there-anythin... far more graceful for the boulangerie run than a new Pork Turbo

Can't add too much to the discussion that hasn't already been said but towing it there and back a few times a year does seem like a lot of hassle for relatively little gain. Towing itself is fine, you get used to it quickly, used to tow 3.5t trailers for work. If you're reversing just remember to steer into the mirror that is showing more of the trailer and you'll go straight(ish) I like the idea of leaving a tax and MOT exempt car there, that would cut down the hassle significantly and any classic car should enjoy the climate down there more than in the UK. Not sure what you could get that's a sports car, pre 73 (or whenever the cut-off date is) and preferably LHD, back to a 911, no doubt.

ChocolateFrog said: Can't add too much to the discussion that hasn't already been said but towing it there and back a few times a year does seem like a lot of hassle for relatively little gain. Towing itself is fine, you get used to it quickly, used to tow 3.5t trailers for work. If you're reversing just remember to steer into the mirror that is showing more of the trailer and you'll go straight(ish) I like the idea of leaving a tax and MOT exempt car there, that would cut down the hassle significantly and any classic car should enjoy the climate down there more than in the UK. Not sure what you could get that's a sports car, pre 73 (or whenever the cut-off date is) and preferably LHD, back to a 911, no doubt. That’s exactly why I have the Landy out here. Perfect for this which is my view now: But as it is a bit slow I’m also bringing this tax exempt old bus out. Still slow, but moderately quicker than the Landy. But neither previous or valuable.

How did the Landy get there and how will the B get there?

braddo said: How did the Landy get there and how will the B get there? My classic Landy specialist’s son spent a couple of months preparing it and drove it 1800 mims out without missing a beat. The B had 6 months of fettling and mods last year and has had a shakedown this spring so will be driven out same way.

Both are utterly fantastic Billy. And that view….

Billy_Whizzzz said: My classic Landy specialist’s son spent a couple of months preparing it and drove it 1800 mims out without missing a beat. The B had 6 months of fettling and mods last year and has had a shakedown this spring so will be driven out same way. Amazing! Did he use autoroutes or a leisurely A/N road route?

politeperson said: I have a house in the South of France and a 911. I just drive there! 800 miles in a day no problems. You will be fine as long as you haven't got a silly version with zero suspension. Sometimes I go a bit further where we have a flat in Barcelona. It is easy too at 1,250 miles on the excellent roads. Avoid red and black days though. I love the drive. The 911 goes 400 miles on a tank, I have a Sanif Tag for the tolls, it is great. Eat off the motorway at an excellent Les Routiers, pull off at mid day. First time Mr Macron got elected, I got 5 speeding tickets in one day. I was really impressed with myself as they turned up at my UK home address over the next 6 weeks. Bet we dont issue them in return!. He turned the timer down on the average speed cameras and it cost me 45 euros a go. Wasn't going that quick either. They are REALLY on it. So watch that one. I also have tried every option of leaving a car at the house and flying. Forget it. Flat batteries, mice, servicing, insurance, MOTs all the rest. Try registering a car in France with their bureaucracy! It is not like lovely old England where you fill out a form and send it off. You need a Gateway number, proof of residence, 3 copies on the sales receipt etc, etc, etc. I have left the simplest and the Frenchest cars I could think of over the last 30 years in the garage over there, a 59 2CV, a Renault 4 TL, an Citroen LNA, Citroen DS, Citroen Ami. All a disaster. Battery tenders the whole lot. Cars hate being left unattended even in a dry garage. I swear they sulk. They just will give you stress when you wake them up. By the time I have parked the car at the airport, waited, flown, disembarked, got a hire car etc, I wish I had just driven anyway. Driving in France is lovely, the Autoroutes are superb, the N roads are great too. Here speaks the voice of experience - fully agree!

braddo said: Billy_Whizzzz said: My classic Landy specialist’s son spent a couple of months preparing it and drove it 1800 mims out without missing a beat. The B had 6 months of fettling and mods last year and has had a shakedown this spring so will be driven out same way. Amazing! Did he use autoroutes or a leisurely A/N road route? A/N in France - not sure about Switzerland then in Italy a combination as you’re pretty limited for choose at times - he drove all way to Bari in the heel before getting ferry to Greece.

pete.g said: That gives you quite a lot of scope - anything from a resto-mod MG, a Citroen DS Decapotable, a Mercedes SL (R109), Jaguar E Type, XK to a simple MX5. LHD Boxster would be the default, but I’d love to see two PMD’s on the back seat of the Citroen as you wafted along, preferably wearing a Panama hat. Le Francais adorent la DS. Pete, the dogs would love an open top car, as it is they love been on the move with their heads out the window - Would certainly look the part in a Citroen DS I have thought about something older - The Citroen DS Decapatable is a stunning car and I'm sure it would make me popular with the locals. I've also love the 80's SL500, or perhaps a 964 Cab, but I worry about reliability issues with something old. I suppose such a car would be less of a concern in terms of theft, but then what do I do with the 911 Cab I've ordered, we all know the sun never shines in the UK! (although apparently there's going to be a heatwave tomorrow...... For one day!!). Thank you also to Lemon Tart for the offer of driving the car down. It's very kind, but I don't even let the garage collect my cars for servicing, I'm just a bit funny like that. Finally, thank you to all for your comments, they've been a big help, I love the Landy on the beach photo Billy_whizzzz. I've spent over a year of my life in Corfu and do love it. I miss the boat to Agni Bay on an evening and all the other beautiful coves with Tavernas along the coast, but I was quite ill a few years ago and there health care system is not the best...... Have they finished building that hospital yet between Gouvia and Corfu Town? I think I'm actually going to do as Politeperson suggests and drive the 911 down on my own, probably in 2 x 90 day stints, between April and October, retuning halfway in order to remain insurance compliant. Although I've decided against towing, hopefully this thread will be of some interest to others considering similar in the future.

Contradicting everything I have said about not leaving a car over there, if I was going to do it, it would have to be an English registered LHD Renault 4 GTL with low miles, a mint body and a galvanised chassis. A full length folding sunroof would be a must too. One of the few cars modern enough to do 70 all day but still old enough to contain zero micro-chips and an engine that can run on stale fuel. Of course I am completely biased, as I have one in the shed! I took a picture of her this morning covered in dust. Leave it or take it? I should have learnt me lessons by now. I already have a dead 1971 Citroen Ami over there.

Just looking at the condition of the wheels alone, I can see that's a tidy example - You want to get it moved out there Politeperson