Jumping ship from American V8's, depending on maintenance

Hello gentlemen. Thanks for the forum, and it's good to see that some guys take these cars apart and dig into them and put them back together, fixed. I have always gone American, with Camaros and Corvettes but am considering a Cayman 987. It's an awesome enough of a car to make me possibly immigrate for the first time in my life, as long as self maintenance is possible without killing my bank account, or my psyche. I have rebuilt Chevy small blocks and replaced transmissions, rebuilt rear ends, etc., so I can do the work, as long as it's possible to do; which gets to my question. I want a car for daily driving that won't give me too much trouble, but I am willing to fix what needs it. But I want to be ABLE to fix whatever is needed without a nightmare of cost or trouble. Is this likely or possible with a Porsche Cayman? ---What on the 987 cannot be done yourself? ---How hard is a clutch replacement, for example? ---How hard is a basic engine rebuild (bearings, rings, seals)? For a Chevy, a good crank, rods, piston can be bought for $2500. A clutch for $500 maybe. Head gaskets for $150. Timing chain for $100. Anything you need, you can buy, and do yourself, other than work on the block like an align bore, or putting cylinder sleeves in. ---How is all this kind of thing on a 987? Are the parts costs extremely high, or just Corvette-level high? Thanks.

There are two things I would caution you on. 1) Internal engine parts cost for a 987 will be 5x your Chevy estimates. However, this engine will go well over 150K miles. The clutch cost may be the same but the labor is more. I believe Porsche drops the entire engine/transmission assembly to do the job. Which brings me to caution 2) and that is access. Mid engine cars typically have very poor engine access and the Cayman is no exception. Maintenance you can do and many on this forum do there own. But when it comes to engine work it is difficult to say the least. As I said, I believe Porsche drops the engine/trans for almost any repair work they do. Since they have all the tools and lifts necessary to do this quickly and efficiently that is what works for them. You can read on the forum how much people struggle with simple tasks such as water pump replacement or changing out headers. You don't have to go American to get a sports car that is easy to work on. But the Cayman and Boxster are not that.

On point 1, not only are engine parts pricey, but certain items are also not available from factory or even aftermarket vendors should you need them like valves, valve guides, valve seats etc. The base 2.7 engine is apparently more reliable than the larger 3.4 unit which can suffer from cylinder bore scoring due to poor choice made by Porsche to use Lokasil liners over Nikasil to cut down on mfg cost. There is also oiling issues if the car is to be used on track. Good news is that IMS failure is very low but should you be unfortunate enough to suffer from it, it will be an expensive repair since the crankcase has to be opened. I changed my clutch at around 50k miles and it was 90% worn out. Had to change the flywheel as well which is a dual mass kind that also acts as a harmonic damper for the rotating assembly. The clutch is not expensive but the flywheel is and its lifespan is roughly the same as the clutch. And yes the engine has to be dropped for a clutch change. Good news is that oil change is relatively easy/simple and things like water pump, belt, plugs are also doable on your own. Lots of guides here and on Youtube to help.

Thanks guys. Doesn't sound too good. That's the cost of a highly engineered precise machine I guess. The flywheel having to be replaced is especially bad tho, and maybe a good example of performance above cost or maintenance. It makes sense to integrate the rubber into the flywheel to save weight and space I guess. But, man, that's bad. So I'm guessing about $3000 to replace the clutch and flywheel, and two or more full Saturdays of work. The Corvette Z06 427ci can be had for $30k now. And it could pull your face off your head with its acceleration. But I kind of wanted to try a different driving experience. The Cayman looks just great and, from all I've read, it can suit as a daily driver, and many people have called the boxster their favorite car they've ever driven. Road and Track writers have said that. I take that to be something I should try. Maybe I'll still do it.

Quick question but any reason why you are not considering the 'newer' 981 series of cars? They seem to have none of the issues of the 987s as far as I can tell.

Gents, the engine does NOT have to be removed to change the clutch. I have done the job myself in my own garage. It is not an easy job, but doable by an experienced home mechanic. Of course the transmission needs to come out, but after that it's just like any other clutch job.

Lots of good insight here. Just had my clutch, PP, DMFW replaced with the shifter cables at just under $4k which is actually a fair price. General maintenance can be done reasonably but these are much lower volume cars than you are used to so everything is more expensive. Another large point is the complex nature of a flat six engine. Look through Youtube for the assembly videos and you will see how difficult these engines are. Plus everything requires $1000 worth of specialized Por$che tools and fixtures. Still love my car and very happy to have it.

I'm looking at the older Cayman just because of cost. I've already burned quite a bit of money over the years on fast car stuff, and a whole lot of very unenjoyable time working on cars on jackstands, so I'm looking to avoid a repeat of both of those. Highly modified cars, at least with forced induction, can be just killers. There's always something you have to work on. So I'm now looking for either the whole brute 120mph quarter mile package in a stock vehicle that was worked out by a whole team of factory engineers, or for a whole different fun driving car, like the Cayman. What concerns me with the Cayman is a potential nightmare of cost and weekends spent cursing my decisions as I turn wrenches and figure out awful troubleshooting riddles and crawl from back and forth under the car.

I am an accountant by day, and I do all my own repairs and maintenance on my 987.1 CS. It is just nuts and bolts, and with your experience and knowledge I would think you will find the Cayman fairly easy to work on.

Just my personal opinion - I think the 987 series cars are going to be desirable in the coming future. To me they are the last of the "analog" cars - hydraulic steering, not too PSC is not too intrusive, especially with Sport Chrono, seems to be just the right size and weight. The M96/97 engines are not the greatest but if the necessary modifications are made they are long lasting and reliable. Those modifications can cost $$$ however. The 9A1 engines solve almost all the issues and I have yet to hear substantiated claims of issues with those engines. To the OP - if you can find a 987.2 Cayman S or Boxster S for a decent price, jump on it. A 987.1 is ok. Just be aware that there are gremlins lurking. PPI with leakdown should show any weaknesses up front. I think I would spring for a bore scope as well if its a 987.1 just to be sure (would have saved me $$$).

Try a 914! Easy to work on, and handling as good as the Boxster. 2100 pounds, air cooled, manual everything. No creature comforts. Raw. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I haven’t found basic maintenance on my 2006 to be difficult at all. I’ve done the water pump, and it was quite simple. Easier than my Miata and no harder than an XJ Jeep Cherokee, except that you do it from below. I used to work on my C5 Corvette and the Cayman is no worse. Parts are a bit more expensive. The engine is in the middle but there are panels that come off to give access where needed. Brake pads are easy like putting bread in a toaster. Nothing requires dropping the engine short of a rebuild.

Thanks for the input. If a Cayman is no worse than a Corvette C5 it may be a go for me. The Chevys were good in part because you don't have to worry that much about stuff breaking. If it breaks you just fix it. Like Jay Leno said, you can fix a Chevy with a hammer. Pushrod engine. One timing chain. One simple cam. 16 valves. But the slow car fast thing is kind of true. To push limits on a serious Corvette you have to be a slight maniac. I'm looking at either a base 987.2 or a 987.1 S. Just for price. But maybe will part with the cash to get the 3.4L since I have one concern about being used to cars that just have major pull and being let down by low relative power. I have yet to drive a 987. Easier said than done since I don't want to waste a seller's time if I don't intend to buy.

Is there any worked out, standard swap to another engine such as a Toyota V6? I read Fingers thread about an LS3 swap but it was highly, highly custom and prototype. If I got a 987 and the engine blew, I would be interested in saying a big "bite me" to the whole Porsche engine issues/cost/rebuild-impossibility and putting in something basic and cheap with more proven durability.

Maybe buy a warranty and not worry the big stuff ??I bought my '08 S 3 years ago at 60k miles. Only failure was a water pump at 80k. Did that myself in a couple hours.

No, that would be awful! Really, these cars are pretty reliable if you take care of them.

Ha. It would seem awful. But it was the best move Lotus could have made to put a proven and reliable Toyota engine in their cars. Do what you do best, and get someone else to do what they do best. I'm not getting an Elise or Exige, but a tuned up Toyota Camry engine being in them would be a huge selling point for me if I was. It won't break. But if it does, get a new one for $4000 or rebuild the whole thing for $2000.

If you want a car that can do 120 in QM then your best bet is a Corvette and as you already know it is easy to work on. In spite of those brave souls that do their own maintenance and repairs on Caymans/Boxsters, I say it is not an easy car to work on and in no way compares to the ease of repair in a front engined car. You want fun in the corners on a low cost fun to drive drive car that is incredibly reliable and cheap to maintain and repair do what I did buy a late model Honda S2000.

you can do the clutch at an independent for about $1500 using oem parts or do it yourself for 600-700 bucks. cayman is the best overall sports car in the world. drive one in anger and you'll understand

I made the same move 9+ years ago. No regrets. Did clutch water pump etc myself not too hard. Got an electrical gremlin right now. Think it is a wet immobilizer. At beach right now, but will pull seat and check this week. WHOLE new world, and you will feel like a bad a$$. So far not overly expensive to fix.. I would do it again, and really should have done it sooner. 987.1 S FWIW If u r near Charlotte NC u can come drive it. I drive it like i stole it everyday. 120k miles

I'm back, looking through all of this again, and finally test drove a couple Boxsters. The clutch was shot on the first one--an old 2002--and I was unimpressed. But after driving the 2008 I saw what they're supposed to be like; and they are great. You can tell where everything is on the car. In the 2015 Corvette that I drove on the same day, I felt a little closed in, and remote from the boundaries of the vehicle. "I wonder what's going on out there?" Like controlling a machine from an electronic driver's cockpit located remotely. That is a little exaggerated, but it is the feeling. As I remember my 2000 Corvette felt more connected and compact. Of course, there was also the issue of trying not to crash a $40,000 car with a manual and about 450 rwhp. Thanks for all the replies. After reading more stuff and going through everything, I was on the fence. And then I read about the lack of any limited slip differential in any of the 986/987's. And that when they did finally kind of put one in there, it was apparently junk. There is an aftermarket part from Guard...for $3000. This, on top of all the engine problems with this car. And that's about the last straw for me. If you can't do a somewhat proper burnout, or even hook the back wheels around pulling out of a drive, I'm sorry, but in my mind you don't have a sports car or a muscle car. The appearance and driving of the car is outstanding, and pretty much like nothing I've ever driven. But Porsche is abusive. Like a beautiful woman who's an awful abusive b----. I want one of the cars, but I will only take so much until I call it ridiculous and I'm leaving.

The Porsche is not the car for you, for sure. I drove Corvettes from 1980 to 2015 and thats what I think you should look at. They can take a beating. My Cayman could never take the abuse my Corvettes did posi or no posi.

Was always a Ford muscle guy (I respect the Chevy LSx platform however) but honestly jumped from my 1000hp Mustang for this 300hp+ Cayman S and wonder why I waited so long. The Cayman S is a whole another level, let alone the way the car is assembled and designed. No squeaks, no rattles, great weight to hp ratio and handles like a go-cart on steroids to me. I may miss the raw acceleration on that V8, but honestly this Porsche makes me smile a helluva lot more. Have to pay to play with parts but I think that goes with any car you drive, I dumped $2000 in the rear in my Mustang and never thought twice, and it only went straight...lol Some of the engine problems are a little exaggerated as far as frequency, but they do have some issues that can be helped with some modifications. For all the money I put in the Mustang a GT3RS could be in the garage.

I have an 06 Boxster S(987.1) 6 Speed with 141000 Kilometres .Have had it 7 years. Drive it hard but never go over 6 grand. No Track Time. Im somewhat mechanical but have never taken auto shop or any courses. I have done pretty much all maintenance thats been needed since I got the car. Water pump, belts ,motor mounts,brakes, all front end steering parts ,cleaned maf,,changed AOS, Plugs, coolant,oil, changed shifter and rear tranny shifter bushings, lowered seat, down loaded Softronic upgrade, removed doors to fix all the issues and there are many, u will become a Porsche door expert and if not u will need deep pockets!! This car without a doubt has needed the most maintenance in any car I have ever owned with prematurely broken and worn parts (these cars are FRAGILE) BUT when everything works rite its the most fun car ive ever driven ,Period. I didn't say its the fastest so dont get confused ,there are minivans now with more HP. Its the overall experience of power,handling,and style, cant explain. My brother in law has a newer Corvette witH 450 HP and its nice but no comparison.I drive rings around him and have more fun doing it.Vettes are big cumbersome cars (American Muscle) go fast in a strait line. Way to much weight in the front end to really call it a sports car.Its a muscle car. I will probably get chewed out for saying this but with many its all about the HP numbers, and with them its never enough .If u have 400hp u want 500 hp and then on and on it goes. Porsche has never been about that. Most of there cars have had 4 and eventually 6 cylinders. If u feel u need the bragging rites with your buddies then stick with the Vette.

Thanks again for the replies. I am finally realizing the same thing about American cars vs European. We want drag races here, and we want to be able to win them for a low price. So America can make a reliable, simple, powerful engine. But for the driving experience, when that experience isn't limited only to being thrown back in the seat, we have a long way to go. I've driven a couple BMW Z4M's now, and another '06 Boxster S, and they're different. I just wish they made a more simple and durable engine. Ford and Chevy see a crossroads in design and think "extra complexity, higher cost, lower reliability, for 15hp....NO. Bore it out to another .2 liters instead for 30hp." Porsche and BMW and the others overseas get to that same crossroads and say yes to the higher cost, complexity, and lower reliability for the sake of 15hp; or 5 hp for that matter. I'm with you Rick. I dumped my supercharged '96 Camaro a couple years back and I also thought nothing of spending $2k on a hardened transmission, etc. What I may not be willing to give up, though, is a limited slip. To me that is a disgrace in any performance car not to have it. A dog of an old gen 4 Camaro had a LSD. You didn't even have to ask or wonder about it. But the $50k Boxster doesn't?! You must be kidding me. Doing one-wheel-peels in a 2006 and later car? It's fun to spin the back end around and lay a little rubber; and if someone who's into fast cars has never done that, you're missing about 1/3 of the fun. And this fact right there might drive me to the Z4M, even though I liked the regular driving of the Boxster better. Warren, I think you might have had a little worse luck than most owners if the Boxster is the highest maintenance car you've ever had by far. From the other posts I've read (and there have been a whole lot of them as I lurk around the internet) unless the owner had his engine blow up, the typical ownership experience for these cars is actually pretty good reliability and little trouble.

Not sure where you get this. Corvettes have had near 50/50 weight distribution since the mid 60s. And yes, I sold my Vette after I bought my Cayman. Does not mean I will not have another.

I've had my 981 Cayman base for over 2 years now and so far - knocking furiously on wood - no issues other than maintenance and tires. Being retired I don't drive it the miles some do, but I try to get in a little spirited joy riding when I do. I think it is a well balanced car, and in sport plus mode is very responsive. I could not believe how it handled in the mountains, most fun I've had driving there since my early days of ripping around on a bike. I much prefer the 981 styling changes, great looking car that will make you smile. Just for points of reference and fun - or not - why don't you try a 981 S or even - gasp - 718 base or S. I am very happy with my base, I went slightly over my budget in getting mine over the prior generation, but at the time it also had a warranty which helped allay engine explosion fears or other gremlins. I did have Mustangs on my early retirement car list, the only domestic that interested me (thanks to Bullett!). I think - and no disrespect/slight intended - the Porsche is pure sports car while all the domestics are muscle cars first (in varying degrees) with the "sports car" moniker mostly a marketing myth. Not that anyone cares. lol Good luck in the hunt, it is part of the fun for sure.