What series preceded the Carerra Cup? - Page 3 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

The current Carrera Cup GB started in 2003. Does anyone know what series preceded it? I ask because I recently bought an old race car for use as a track day car that apparently won the 'Porsche Cup' in 1993. I can't find any record of it or the driver Ian Harrison. If indeed it did win something back in the day I'd love to find some pics of the colours it ran in but I can't even find the correct name of the championship to search for it! Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 18th January 17:28

The series before the uk Carrera cup was the Porsche Cup. I believe this was the series immediately before the Carrera Cup was launched in the Uk ( using the purpose built 996 Cup car ). These were 993C2's modified by racing teams to strict rules laid down by Porsche. It was a popular series that attracted a very good standard of drivers as did the Carrera cup series that followed it. Most original 993 'cup' cars were subsequently raced in different championships like the Porsche Open series, Britcar etc... There are a few cars still about in the uk and some residing in Ireland I think. If you have an original car it will be worth tracing its provenance. With the increase in popularity of aircooled 911's and the 993 not far from the grasp of historic championships it may well be a decent car to hang onto.

Steve Rance said: The series before the uk Carrera cup was the Porsche Cup. I believe this was the series immediately before the Carrera Cup was launched in the Uk ( using the purpose built 996 Cup car ). These were 993C2's modified by racing teams to strict rules laid down by Porsche. It was a popular series that attracted a very good standard of drivers as did the Carrera cup series that followed it. Most original 993 'cup' cars were subsequently raced in different championships like the Porsche Open series, Britcar etc... There are a few cars still about in the uk and some residing in Ireland I think. If you have an original car it will be worth tracing its provenance. With the increase in popularity of aircooled 911's and the 993 not far from the grasp of historic championships it may well be a decent car to hang onto. Thanks Steve very helpful. It's actually a 964 and apparently won the championship (or maybe its class, no idea) in either 92 or 93. The car is worth what I paid for it in it's own right regardless IMO but I'd love to get more info and some pics of it in action back in the day if there are any. I've been trying to trace the driver...sadly its not the boss of triple eight (BTCC) who was kind enough to reply to what must have been an odd email from me from his perspective... Oddly I can't find any info at all about either season anywhere online. I suppose given the date it's not entirely unsurprising I'm just so used to finding information so easily these days.

Probably one of these eh?

mollytherocker said: Probably one of these eh? That looks like ze German one to me but yes that's exactly what I'm looking for! Upside down flying backwards over the safety fence.

Before the carrera cup was the Porsche cup. It was a pretty high profile series, you could race pretty much any porsche you liked, none of which were factory built race cars. There was 2.7rs, 928, 968, 3.2 carrera, carrera 2, 930, 944 turbo, 944s2. There were even some high profile drivers, Mike Jordan, Tiff Needel, Jonny Mowlem, Tony Dron, etc etc. I also have a 964 from the Porsche cup era, looking at the build and the quality its built to a higher level than the cars that raced in the porsche club championship, it has a much more extensive cage, fully seam welded and mono balled all around.

Porsche Cup 1996 is the year you are looking for. Johnny Mowlem won the championship in the AFN sponsored 993. I was second in a 964 C2. Phil Hindley from memory came third in the car you own now. Call Phil at Tech9. I'm sure he would like to chat Edited by graemel on Tuesday 19th January 08:07

Before the Porsche Cup series, Porsche ran the Turbo Cup, making the 944 Turbo the original Cup car...

wildman0609 said: ...much more extensive cage, fully seam welded and mono balled all around. Yep that sounds like mine. graemel said: Porsche Cup 1996 is the year you are looking for. Johnny Mowlem won the championship in the AFN sponsored 993. I was second in a 964 C2. Phil Hindley from memory came third in the car you own now. Call Phil at Tech9. I'm sure he would like to chat Thanks Greame, been a while, hope you are well. I love how you know more about a car I bought last week than I do, have you been speaking to Matt? It's the blue car in your photo! I emailed Phil at Tech 9 who very kindly dug out this photo of the old girl back in the day... Apparently the car was also raced in the 92/93 seasons by a chap called Ian Harrison although I can find nothing about this online and Phil is no longer in contact. Ever heard of him? It's white now in kind of fake brumos colours but they are coming off as we speak. (As are the RS stickers, cos it ain't) Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 19th January 15:41

GC8 said: Before the Porsche Cup series, Porsche ran the Turbo Cup, making the 944 Turbo the original Cup car... The best car of the lot!

FBLM. The series in 1992 was called the UK Porsche Supercup. I have the championship winning car from that year here with me. Driven by Craig Simmos, and is a genuine 964 RS UK RHD car. I think the series in 1993 was the Porsche Club Pirelli Championship, heavily supported by Porsch GB. I'm sure Ian Harrison is still around to ask about his car.

Hey FBLM I had a sneaking suspicion it was you. All good with me and I hope all is well with you. Called into see Matt back in August with the missus. He took my Hellcat for a spin. Quite impressed. All went for lunch, great day. The origins of Porsche club racing I believe began with the Giroflex Porsche Production Championship back in the 80's. I think for a while it then morphed into the BFGoodrich PPC. Back in 1993 / 1994 it was called the Pirelli Porsche Production Championship. In 1994 saw some 968CS's and 944 turbo's arrive. A good mix of 911's from 3.2, 2.7RS to 2.4T's. 1995 came the split of the Porsche Cup and the Porsche Classic Championships. Pete Chambers came out in a fresh 964C2. The Jones brothers with their fresh and truly awesome 928GTS. Prepared beautifully by Mike Jordan that thing had titanium door handles and a titanium pedal box. Made my old SSE look like a Beetle. A few 944 Turbo's. The Classic Championship was basically for 911SC and older. In 1996 the 3.2 became a Class 2 Car. Protech built my 964 Carrera 2 and Phil built the car you own now to compete in the 1996 Championship. They were cracking races with some very good drivers. Phil Hindley, Mark Sumpter, Johnny Mowlem, The Jones Brothers, Bob Berridge, Stephen Ratcliffe, Des Winks, Mark Hales, Pete Chambers and a few I have probably forgotten. We were all a lot younger and all had such a laugh. Crazy stunts and hijinks. Happy days

gt2-r said: FBLM. The series in 1992 was called the UK Porsche Supercup. I have the championship winning car from that year here with me. Driven by Craig Simmos, and is a genuine 964 RS UK RHD car. I think the series in 1993 was the Porsche Club Pirelli Championship, heavily supported by Porsch GB. I'm sure Ian Harrison is still around to ask about his car. Hi Paul, I can't afford a real RS! Mines a poverty spec c2, that's what the v5 says anyway Thanks very much for the info, I'm trying to track him down. It appears to have all been just pre-internet so information is really hard to track down. Francis ps I'm completely smitten by the red RSR but the Mrs said no! Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 19th January 21:48

graemel said: Hey FBLM I had a sneaking suspicion it was you.

GC8 said: Before the Porsche Cup series, Porsche ran the Turbo Cup, making the 944 Turbo the original Cup car... Only in Europe, not the UK

The York liveried car was raced by Steven Radcliffe, who I assume then sold it to Ian Harrison, he was a body building fireman ! He raced it in production and modified series, but I don't recall it being near the front. Edited by ted 191 on Tuesday 19th January 23:31

Chris. Steve ran the 993 liveried York car Phil had the 964. Previously Steve raced the 968CS with Mellors Motorsport alongside Dessie Winks. Phil ran a 944S2 prior to his 964. You remember ?. Buy the way FBLM Ted191 was also one of the top chargers. 2.7RS then a 944 turbo. Always hard but fair Edited by graemel on Tuesday 19th January 23:51

Graeme. Do you know where we can access the race results for the championship? I've also been trying to trace the history of my 993 race car but like the OP finding it difficult to get the info.

Steve Rance said: Graeme. Do you know where we can access the race results for the championship? I've also been trying to trace the history of my 993 race car but like the OP finding it difficult to get the info. They used to be on the porsche club web site, but I think they've now been removed. Who raced your car ?

I think that various people raced it, including Graeme but it was mainly raced (and was origionally comissioned) by Paul fuller. Built by Protech and run by a few teams including Mike Pickup's team.

suspect Steve Winter Jaz will have been in Mike Pickups 'team ' ........very much around these days for info ..............

ted 191 said: Steve Rance said: Graeme. Do you know where we can access the race results for the championship? I've also been trying to trace the history of my 993 race car but like the OP finding it difficult to get the info. They used to be on the porsche club web site, but I think they've now been removed. Who raced your car ? I just emailed the webmaster of the pcgb motorsport website to see if he can resurrect the results for us or point us in the right direction... will let you knwo

Great news

Steve Rance said: I think that various people raced it, including Graeme but it was mainly raced (and was origionally comissioned) by Paul fuller. Built by Protech and run by a few teams including Mike Pickup's team. I know the car, if Paul had it built then sold on and run by Mike, it must have been one of the Jersey lads that raced it, Paul Doran or Richard can't remember his second name.

ted 191 said: I know the car, if Paul had it built then sold on and run by Mike, it must have been one of the Jersey lads that raced it, Paul Doran or Richard can't remember his second name. Richard True

Hi Steve. I am pretty certain that we built Paul's 993 for him to race in the 1999 championship. Paul went to Mike Pickup to race a 996GT3R and I do not know who raced the car after Paul. Ted is probably right that Richard True might have bought it as the Jersey boys ran with Mike Pickup. Forget Steve at JAZ. Not sure when JAZ started up but it was Steve and Jonas back in 1993.

I heard back from PCGB. I think they have the information but were a little wary as to what we wanted it for. I explained it's not commercial and have requested all the results for the 92 to 99 seasons. Will let you all know what they come back with.

gt2-r said: FBLM. The series in 1992 was called the UK Porsche Supercup. I have the championship winning car from that year here with me. Driven by Craig Simmos, and is a genuine 964 RS UK RHD car. Hi, I used to help David Lees out when he was racing this one, I'd be very interested to hear what your plans are with it and see the 'restoration'. Don't suppose you will have a rebuild thread on it?!! It was definitely in need of some TLC but a great car none the less. I tried to find out history of it before but had the same issues as OP, in that it was pre Internet explosion. It's funny how we just take it for granted now, when researching anything. I bet there are loads of enthusiasts with some great photos locked away with all the old race programmes as well somewhere.

stroller said: Hi, I used to help David Lees out when he was racing this one, I'd be very interested to hear what your plans are with it and see the 'restoration'. Don't suppose you will have a rebuild thread on it?!! It was definitely in need of some TLC but a great car none the less. I tried to find out history of it before but had the same issues as OP, in that it was pre Internet explosion. It's funny how we just take it for granted now, when researching anything. I bet there are loads of enthusiasts with some great photos locked away with all the old race programmes as well somewhere. If it's the ex Craig Simmis car, it was built by Steve Holgate that was exclusively nine in Nantwich, at some time it think it was painted ruby stone..

Stroller it is now in the hands of the finest Porsche restorer and ex- BGT GT2 R wheelman , so a great home...... I feel he would like information on it and old photos .

I think that as the stock of aircooled 911's continues to rise there will be an increased interest in contempoary racing in the 1990's

While we wait for pcgb to get back to us I did find the 1999 Pirelli Porsche Cup results on the wayback archive http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030407214046/http... Maybe your car is here Steve? Too late for mine. Mace must have been pretty handy to get a 944 up there! 1999 Pirelli Porsche Cup # Class Name Points Model 5 1 P CHAMBERS 444 996 Carrera 22 1 D JONES 392 996 Carrera 64 3 P MACE 389 944 42 2 P MASARATI 388 968 CS 48 2 M SALMON 385 968 CS 23 1 G JONES 377 993 Carrera 62 3 A SWEETENHAM 359 924 S 63 3 T MCHUGH 351 944 10 1 A SIMMONS 314 993 Carrera 2 1 M SUMPTER 307 996 Carrera 41 2 R.BABIKAN 289 911 Carrera 2 60 3 S SCOTT 289 944 43 2 D FREEMAN 279 968 CS 6 1 C HEELEY 249 944 Turbo 3 1 R TRUE 238 993 Carrera 61 3 P MARTIN 225 944 1 1 A GRIEVES 219 911 Carrera 2 4 1 P DORAN 211 993 Carrera 7 1 J WILEY 199 993 Carrera 11 1 D BENNETT 178 993 Carrera 16 1 A LITTLEJOHN 147 944 Turbo 51 2 A EDWARDS 145 911 Carrera 3.2 45 2 S TRANTER 133 968 CS 71 3 S HELLON 127 924 S 77 3 P BARNES 126 944 12 1 M SARGENT 125 928 GTS 53 2 N.ADAMS 73 968 CS 52 2 C.BAILEY 66 944 S2 44 2 D ELLIS 54 968 CS 53 2 A EVERITT 49 968 CS 56 2 C HEELEY 43 944 S2 15 1 R BUSST 36 944 Turbo 55 2 A.OLIVER 33 911 Carrera 54 2 N.SQUIRE 33 944 S2 47 2 B ROBINSON 21 944 S2 47 2 A MCKENNA 17 944 S2 7 1 C HEELEY 36 993 Carrera 9 1 A.MIDDLETON 30 993 Carrera 60 3 A GRIEVES 20 944 Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 21st January 15:19

fblm I saw that new 964 of yours on a track day at Oulton Park last year. Presumably there with the previous owner and I recall a Tech9 van being there supporting him on the day. Car looked good on track but I think it got pulled over for noise once or twice.

boxsey said: fblm I saw that new 964 of yours on a track day at Oulton Park last year. Presumably there with the previous owner and I recall a Tech9 van being there supporting him on the day. Car looked good on track but I think it got pulled over for noise once or twice. Thanks. I haven't even seen it yet!

ted 191 said: Only in Europe, not the UK I am more than familiar with the Porsche Cup's history.

fblm said: While we wait for pcgb to get back to us I did find the 1999 Pirelli Porsche Cup results on the wayback archive http://wayback.archive.org/web/20030407214046/http... Maybe your car is here Steve? Too late for mine. Mace must have been pretty handy to get a 944 up there! 1999 Pirelli Porsche Cup # Class Name Points Model 5 1 P CHAMBERS 444 996 Carrera 22 1 D JONES 392 996 Carrera 64 3 P MACE 389 944 42 2 P MASARATI 388 968 CS 48 2 M SALMON 385 968 CS 23 1 G JONES 377 993 Carrera 62 3 A SWEETENHAM 359 924 S 63 3 T MCHUGH 351 944 10 1 A SIMMONS 314 993 Carrera 2 1 M SUMPTER 307 996 Carrera 41 2 R.BABIKAN 289 911 Carrera 2 60 3 S SCOTT 289 944 43 2 D FREEMAN 279 968 CS 6 1 C HEELEY 249 944 Turbo 3 1 R TRUE 238 993 Carrera 61 3 P MARTIN 225 944 1 1 A GRIEVES 219 911 Carrera 2 4 1 P DORAN 211 993 Carrera 7 1 J WILEY 199 993 Carrera 11 1 D BENNETT 178 993 Carrera 16 1 A LITTLEJOHN 147 944 Turbo 51 2 A EDWARDS 145 911 Carrera 3.2 45 2 S TRANTER 133 968 CS 71 3 S HELLON 127 924 S 77 3 P BARNES 126 944 12 1 M SARGENT 125 928 GTS 53 2 N.ADAMS 73 968 CS 52 2 C.BAILEY 66 944 S2 44 2 D ELLIS 54 968 CS 53 2 A EVERITT 49 968 CS 56 2 C HEELEY 43 944 S2 15 1 R BUSST 36 944 Turbo 55 2 A.OLIVER 33 911 Carrera 54 2 N.SQUIRE 33 944 S2 47 2 B ROBINSON 21 944 S2 47 2 A MCKENNA 17 944 S2 7 1 C HEELEY 36 993 Carrera 9 1 A.MIDDLETON 30 993 Carrera 60 3 A GRIEVES 20 944 Edited by fblm on Thursday 21st January 15:19 I totalled my car halfway through that season........Paul Mace was in class 3 !

GC8 said: I am more than familiar with the Porsche Cup's history. Very good....how many seasons did you do ?

Fascinating stuff. Clearly some long term addicts in there looking at that listing and one I believe whose son raced later in the Club Championship? Maserati? It gets under your skin for sure, haven't raced for 2 years but renewed the license before Christmas.

ted 191 said: GC8 said: I am more than familiar with the Porsche Cup's history. Very good....how many seasons did you do ? My point is that the OP asked what preceded the Carrera Cup. The answer is the Turbo Cup. The question was not 'what Porsche championships were available in the UK before the Carrera Cup?'. For an inexplicable reason you appear to have jumped on my correct and on-point answer, and ignored all of the people mistakenly listing PCGB championships.

GC8 said: My point is that the OP asked what preceded the Carrera Cup. The answer is the Turbo Cup. The question was not 'what Porsche championships were available in the UK before the Carrera Cup?'. For an inexplicable reason you appear to have jumped on my correct and on-point answer, and ignored all of the people mistakenly listing PCGB championships. Your wrong, deal with it, OP was asking for Series run in GB.....read it again.

ted 191 said: I totalled my car halfway through that season........Paul Mace was in class 3 ! Yep it probably was. Like the OP, would love to get more information my car's provenance. I did intend to race it in the Fututre Classics championship and hopefully pick up some decent results but I'll wait until I can race it in some propper Historic series. As an aside. I raced in the same series as Paul Mace for a season. We were both in 996 Cups. Never shared the same track space so I cant tell you how good a racer he is but he had decent pace I remember.

ted 191 said: GC8 said: My point is that the OP asked what preceded the Carrera Cup. The answer is the Turbo Cup. The question was not 'what Porsche championships were available in the UK before the Carrera Cup?'. For an inexplicable reason you appear to have jumped on my correct and on-point answer, and ignored all of the people mistakenly listing PCGB championships. Your wrong, deal with it, OP was asking for Series run in GB.....read it again. You really do have a winning personality, dont you?

Steve Rance said: Yep it probably was. Like the OP, would love to get more information my car's provenance. I did intend to race it in the Fututre Classics championship and hopefully pick up some decent results but I'll wait until I can race it in some propper Historic series. As an aside. I raced in the same series as Paul Mace for a season. We were both in 996 Cups. Never shared the same track space so I cant tell you how good a racer he is but he had decent pace I remember. Come and have a go at the AMOC Intermarque, I am racing a 964 from the old Porsche cup championship in it. We have several 968s, a load of DB4's, V8 vantages, and a bunch of 355 Ferrari's. I'm the Porsche team captain, so drop me a pm if you're interested.

Steve Rance said: Yep it probably was. Like the OP, would love to get more information my car's provenance. I did intend to race it in the Fututre Classics championship and hopefully pick up some decent results but I'll wait until I can race it in some propper Historic series. As an aside. I raced in the same series as Paul Mace for a season. We were both in 996 Cups. Never shared the same track space so I cant tell you how good a racer he is but he had decent pace I remember. A lot of the races were televised, but I've no idea where you could get copies.

Porsche Club GB may have something. Will make a few calls

Steve Rance said: Porsche Club GB may have something. Will make a few calls Good idea. I dropped the webmaster there another email today but no reply. I don't want to harass the guy but if you know someone there you might have more luck Steve. I'm not even a pcgb member... Cheers Francis I seem to recal a PHer call Mel who had a 964 cup car and was something to do with Pcgb??? Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 January 19:22

FBLM you and Wildman0609 should get together. You in Phil's old C2 and Wildman in mine. Be just like old times

Is there a list of entrants for 1989? I'm trying to remember who took me around Castle Coombe in 1989 in Number 7.

Hang on I can look that up for you. That is me in the blue 924 Turbo right in the middle Car number 7 was Chris Banks in a 944 Turbo. So not in the Porsche Championship then.

WindyM said: Is there a list of entrants for 1989? I'm trying to remember who took me around Castle Coombe in 1989 in Number 7. could it have Tony Dron ?

bigmowley said: Hang on I can look that up for you. That is me in the blue 924 Turbo right in the middle Car number 7 was Chris Banks in a 944 Turbo. So not in the Porsche Championship then. Still see Chris usually a couple of times a year

SRT Hellcat said: WindyM said: Is there a list of entrants for 1989? I'm trying to remember who took me around Castle Coombe in 1989 in Number 7. could it have Tony Dron ? His recent passing is what prompted the question- I think it was. This event was put on by Car magazine. I was runner up in their competition to win a Lotus Elan M100. My consolation prize was a day at Castle Coombe having passenger laps in the three race cars and other cars on the road. Did Tony have a Lotus Cortina Mk I at that time? Whoever it was, he drove himself to the circuit in it. We did one warm-up lap, then a second at pace. When we got to the apex of Tower, the engine died and the driver caught lift-off oversteer before tapping a gauge on the dashboard. We came straight into the pits and he remonstrated with his pit crew for sending him out with so little fuel. I realised he was showing me the reason for the stall by tapping on the fuel gauge rather than an attempt in vain to feed more fuel to the engine!

bigmowley said: Hang on I can look that up for you. That is me in the blue 924 Turbo right in the middle Car number 7 was Chris Banks in a 944 Turbo. So not in the Porsche Championship then. Thank you. Car magazine had a brand new road-going 964 C2 on A911 plate, so could it have been 1990? It's also RHD with flag door mirrors unlike this one which is RHD and has cup mirrors: https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1990-porsche-9... Edited by WindyM on Thursday 20th January 19:59

My RS was raced in the Porsche Club GB Championship in the late 80’s by a guy called Keith Russell. He was one of the leading cars having secured Pirelli sponsorship who were the series sponsor at the time. Would love to find more photos or video of it. The car was previously used as a rally car in the Manx and a few of the Irish Rallies in the mid 70’s. So it’s been used properly !

Can't really help with the historical info - apart from running the ex-Piers Masarati 968CS with Richard Burnett in class 2 of the Pirelli Porsche Cup in 99-2000 and subsequently some GT3 Cup cars when the tyre sponsor changed to Michelin for a few years thereafter. The names in the '99 series bring back some memories...... The '44 turbo's gave the few M96 996's a run for their money in that first season; before the GT3 cars came in - but even then there were some close results..... Ian Harrison ran a speed yellow 964 from memory - or was that Adrian Grieves?! Maybe Harrison ran a blue one?? Didn't he also have a supercharged 964 road car? - I had a motorcycle accident late '01 that wiped out a lot of random memories (and seemingly replaced a few with erroneous ones!! Happy to be corrected!) Steve Kevlin was the series co-ordinator; helping with running the cars at PCGB on the dyno (when it was there - sadly no longer) and dishing out the pot luck engine ECU's in an effort to keep a level playing field with those punchy 44's...... I was too late to know the above photo - but the Bill Taylor memorial night-race at Silverstone I do remember being eventful (and now I can put a person to the event name; thanks!) Edited by Pope on Saturday 22 January 20:01

Steve,best to contact steve kevlin who has retired from pcgb motorsport,he will have access to most things Still. If you struggle for a contact of him let me know.

Yellow491 said: Steve,best to contact steve kevlin who has retired from pcgb motorsport,he will have access to most things Still. If you struggle for a contact of him let me know. or John Farren if he is still around

SRT Hellcat said: Yellow491 said: Steve,best to contact steve kevlin who has retired from pcgb motorsport,he will have access to most things Still. If you struggle for a contact of him let me know. or John Farren if he is still around Not heard anything about John for years,dont know/

SRT Hellcat said: or John Farren if he is still around John always looked ill on his best day.