Taycan outsells 911 in 2021 - Page 5 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

From: https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/industry-ne... Macan 88,362 Cayenne 83,071 Taycan 41,296 911 38,464 Panamera 30,220 718 Boxster/Cayman 20,502 Interestingly Porsche posted and 11% increase in sales to just over 300,000, so effectively only about 10,000 of the 41K Taycan sales were "robbed" from other Porsche models.

I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t have sold as many Taycan if it wasn’t for the massive tax efficiency they bring. I had one for 4 months and that was very tax efficient, but the charging network was atrocious and the car was dull to drive beyond straight line speed. Hides the weight well, but not that well.

DMC2 said: I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t have sold as many Taycan if it wasn’t for the massive tax efficiency they bring. I had one for 4 months and that was very tax efficient, but the charging network was atrocious and the car was dull to drive beyond straight line speed. Hides the weight well, but not that well. Completely agree that the UK reasons are almost entirely tax driven. I presume other countries are similar but the figures are impressive nevertheless.

The real story is not that the Taycan outsells the 911 it’s that Porsche posted record sales numbers while the UK has something like 20% new Porsche’s allocated than it did pre Pandemic. I think it’s Porsche scaling back UK new car sales (perhaps Brexit related) rather than chip shortages that is the issue. The US set a sales record this year so chip shortage not causing them any issues….

The cheapest model is also the slowest seller surprisingly

matrignano said: The cheapest model is also the slowest seller surprisingly And very good too - I drove base model on standard springs and was impressed. Not sure I would need more (with some nice options).

DMC2 said: I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t have sold as many Taycan if it wasn’t for the massive tax efficiency they bring. I had one for 4 months and that was very tax efficient, but the charging network was atrocious and the car was dull to drive beyond straight line speed. Hides the weight well, but not that well. Dull - really ?

DMC2 said: I think it’s safe to say they wouldn’t have sold as many Taycan if it wasn’t for the massive tax efficiency they bring. I had one for 4 months and that was very tax efficient, but the charging network was atrocious and the car was dull to drive beyond straight line speed. Hides the weight well, but not that well. Dull? I’ve had a 4S CT for a few months now and it’s anything but dull. The way it corners is incredible. And that acceleration never gets old. Granted, if you overload it, there’s no disguising the weight. But it’s a lot more fun than the RS4 I had last Winter, and better at the day to day too.

911 is the sports car though so I'd expect it to sell less than the SUV's etc. TX.

matrignano said: The cheapest model is also the slowest seller surprisingly Back in 2009 I had a 2.9 boxster and it has been my favourite car to date and I’ve had a 997.2 s and 991.2 4s, plus a number of Macans and Cayenne and two M3s since oh and a little golf r. Pound for pound the entry level boxster is a great fun road car for the average driver for uk roads in my opinion. You can really drive the socks of it. It’s actually one of the cars I wish I kept!

Terminator X said: 911 is the sports car though so I'd expect it to sell less than the SUV's etc. TX. SUVs and electric family cars are taking over sadly!

What happens when a Porsche newbie such as myself walks in to a OPD and asks to place an order for a new Taycan?

You place a deposit and the car appears ( probably 12 months later )

That’s good to know. If you read other threads on here it comes across like you need to be a Porsche owner already for them to even talk to you.

Mark V GTD said: That’s good to know. If you read other threads on here it comes across like you need to be a Porsche owner already for them to even talk to you. Only for the special editions I think , gt3 etc

matrignano said: The cheapest model is also the slowest seller surprisingly Least profitable,,,,Porsche is in the happy position of being able to sell every car it makes. Base 718’s don’t sell very well…but for Porsche it’s a key model as those people who buy one as their first Porsche are the Turbo S buyers of the future.

Cheib said: matrignano said: The cheapest model is also the slowest seller surprisingly Least profitable,,,,Porsche is in the happy position of being able to sell every car it makes. Base 718’s don’t sell very well…but for Porsche it’s a key model as those people who buy one as their first Porsche are the Turbo S buyers of the future. Very true

As I die hard 911 fan, I think I’ve had 20 ish, I drove the taycan under protest (long story) and bought one the same day ! Seriously impressive cars and certainly still had Porsche DNA which I didn’t believe was possible Phil

GT4RS said: SUVs and electric family cars are taking over sadly! But they aren't. They're selling in addition to.

phib said: As I die hard 911 fan, I think I’ve had 20 ish, I drove the taycan under protest (long story) and bought one the same day ! Seriously impressive cars and certainly still had Porsche DNA which I didn’t believe was possible Same here, I've got 4 911's and bought my Taycan the day after a reluctant test drive...

White goods family saloon which also benefits significantly from tax incentives outsells sports car. Is this surprising?

Xfe said: White goods family saloon which also benefits significantly from tax incentives outsells sports car. Is this surprising? I wonder for how many potential 911 buyers tax incentives make a difference?

That's a lot of Panameras... Harldy ever see one either.

Their value is very strong on the used market, despite the loss of the 1st year WDA tax break for buyers. It’s a great daily and was my preference over a panny.

Xfe said: White goods family saloon which also benefits significantly from tax incentives outsells sports car. Is this surprising? White goods ? I take it you haven't driven one or watched any of the many road tests ? Indeed the Taycan 4s bettered the time of a 911 around Anglesey and Plato was raving about it ( it was a bit wet mind)

So Porsche has become a SUV brand

Curledge said: So Porsche has become a SUV brand Well presumably the profits from all those family wagons pay for the sweeter stuff.

Marshy said: I wonder for how many potential 911 buyers tax incentives make a difference? Very few I'd imagine. Not many people are cross-shopping an ICE 911 with a Taycan.

1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it?

anthonysjb said: 1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it? Surprising isn’t it. And the rest of the tax payers plug the gap on the chancellor’s spreadsheet.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/unofficial-pors... I like the render of the taycan front on the 911 body shape

ttdan said: anthonysjb said: 1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it? Surprising isn’t it. And the rest of the tax payers plug the gap on the chancellor’s spreadsheet. You guys realise these are global figures not UK right? Most Porsche buyers couldn't care less about UK tax.

ttdan said: anthonysjb said: 1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it? Surprising isn’t it. And the rest of the tax payers plug the gap on the chancellor’s spreadsheet. The chancellor has incentivised electric cars to encourage people to have them ... you need to get with the program rather than whinging about it ....

ds666 said: The chancellor has incentivised electric cars to encourage people to have them ... you need to get with the program rather than whinging about it .... get with the program ... why electric cars are s te

Charlie_1 said: get with the program ... why electric cars are s te How many electric cars have you owned/driven?

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: Charlie_1 said: get with the program ... why electric cars are s te How many electric cars have you owned/driven? None by the sound of it . Oh how I laughed

ds666 said: ttdan said: anthonysjb said: 1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it? Surprising isn’t it. And the rest of the tax payers plug the gap on the chancellor’s spreadsheet. The chancellor has incentivised electric cars to encourage people to have them ... you need to get with the program rather than whinging about it .... He’s encouraged those can afford it to save a lot of money. Meanwhile the rest pick up the slack. So, tax payers are making Porsche plenty of money with this. Tesla too. How many Taycan “owners” would be in one without the tax break I wonder.

ttdan said: He’s encouraged those can afford it to save a lot of money. Meanwhile the rest pick up the slack. So, tax payers are making Porsche plenty of money with this. Tesla too. How many Taycan “owners” would be in one without the tax break I wonder. You seem to have quite a bee in your bonnet about it. Fortunately every Taycan owner I know has plenty of ICE cars to "pick up the slack" of any precious tax lost. Waaaaah it's not fair!

ttdan said: ds666 said: ttdan said: anthonysjb said: 1% BIK company car outsells £2000 per month sports car. Who'd a thunk it? Surprising isn’t it. And the rest of the tax payers plug the gap on the chancellor’s spreadsheet. The chancellor has incentivised electric cars to encourage people to have them ... you need to get with the program rather than whinging about it .... He’s encouraged those can afford it to save a lot of money. Meanwhile the rest pick up the slack. So, tax payers are making Porsche plenty of money with this. Tesla too. How many Taycan “owners” would be in one without the tax break I wonder. He is encouraging anyone who has a company car to move to EV . Simple . Oh , don't forget the cars aren't free . "The rest of us pick up the slack" - don't make me laugh .... I'll have a pie to go with the massive chips on your shoulders.

Xfe said: White goods family saloon which also benefits significantly from tax incentives outsells sports car. Is this surprising? thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true

julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews.

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews. but an opinion owned by the masses of owners, not the shill journalists. Come on man, you cant tell me a Taycan has soul.

julian987R said: but an opinion owned by the masses of owners, not the shill journalists. Come on man, you cant tell me a Taycan has soul. Which owners? Everything I’ve read suggests that the Taycan is undoubtedly a Porsche, just not an ICE one. How long did you own yours for?

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: Everything I’ve read suggests that the Taycan is undoubtedly a Porsche, just not an ICE one. true but it can't have soul, no way can it.

+1 , Philb , spot on.

+2 I love mine,

julian987R said: Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: Everything I’ve read suggests that the Taycan is undoubtedly a Porsche, just not an ICE one. true but it can't have soul, no way can it. I think you have to define "soul" Does it feel like a 1970's 911 ? No it doesnt Does a 992 feel like a 1970's 911? no it doesnt. Infact what mass market car has soul these days. You have to think of it more like 991 or 992 Turbo which still has soul and Porsche DNA I really didnt think it was posible either ..... right until the point I actually drove one and spent time with one. It certainly demands and rewards driver input and concentration, think four wheel drifts, pin point handling (certainly in sports +) You even have a 911 ish view out the front with the wings and no bonnet view. As I have said before, its so good since I have had mine (Turbo one) I have driven my 911 once and my 355 once Phib Edited by phib on Saturday 22 January 09:27

Another owner here and love mine. It doesn't replace any of my older 911's but it's still a brilliant car in it's own right and far more fun to drive and much faster than the vast majority of ICE cars for sale.

julian987R said: true but it can't have soul, no way can it. How long did you own yours for?

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: How long did you own yours for? sidicks ?

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews. Lol. Journalists who are too scared to say a bad word about a brand incase you don't get to go on the next jolly. Any journalist or driver with extensive experience of cars will know the limitations of the weight VERY quickly. The Taycan is a great electric GT car, but in no way a sports car.

DMC2 said: Lol. Journalists who are too scared to say a bad word about a brand incase you don't get to go on the next jolly. Any journalist or driver with extensive experience of cars will know the limitations of the weight VERY quickly. The Taycan is a great electric GT car, but in no way a sports car. Agreed it’s not a sports car, I do have to laugh when people say they are too heavy to go round corners. We took ours to goodwood and the only Porsche faster than us was a 992 turbo that was 2 tenths faster over a flying lap. 991 turbo we went with didn’t stand a chance and normal 911’s just got killed on the back straight. There were a lot of pissed off people at the day !! Phib

Watch fifth gear recharged ( or whatever it is called ) . Taycan 4s v992 . Guess which was quicker round the track ? I know Plato doesn’t know how to drive or what’s important about cars so that the fact that he loves the Taycan doesn’t mean much …. Course it isn’t a sports car . It is ,however , far from dull ..

My 4S CT arrives in a week or so. I had zero interest in EV's until I drove a Taycan. We ordered two the day we test drove them. It's replacing an Audi S6 Avant and felt better built, faster and more advanced in almost every respect. It should be it costs twice as much as my S6 did new (before tax breaks of course). I will add though, I have zero interest in any other Porsche product. My business partner lusts after a 992 Turbo S and all things being equal would have had one of those over a Taycan - but all things Tax aren't equal.

4s isn’t a quick one though. All I can tell you is our finding from Goodwood, the 4s isn’t a quick one though A turbo taycan that will do 0-100 in 5.9 is never going to get caught by a 992 that does 0-100 in 8.4 down any of the straights at goodwood or the whole lap for that matter. Phib Edited by phib on Saturday 22 January 16:06

DMC2 said: Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews. Lol. Journalists who are too scared to say a bad word about a brand incase you don't get to go on the next jolly. Any journalist or driver with extensive experience of cars will know the limitations of the weight VERY quickly. The Taycan is a great electric GT car, but in no way a sports car. No one said it was a sports car. That said, it'll still pull most 'sports cars' pants down. There's really not much to compare it to except maybe an M5. I don't remember the panamera getting everyone's knickers in such a twist except for being ugly.

phib said: 4s isn’t a quick one though. All I can tell you is our finding from Goodwood, the 4s isn’t a quick one though A turbo taycan that will do 0-100 in 5.9 is never going to get caught by a 992 that does 0-100 in 8.4 down any of the straights at goodwood or the whole lap for that matter. Phib Edited by phib on Saturday 22 January 16:06 A lot of people on here saying the 4s is fast enough. Probably some truth , but I’ve gone turbo too as I wanted something quicker than my I pace , and the 4s didn’t feel enough .

pheonix478 said: DMC2 said: Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews. Lol. Journalists who are too scared to say a bad word about a brand incase you don't get to go on the next jolly. Any journalist or driver with extensive experience of cars will know the limitations of the weight VERY quickly. The Taycan is a great electric GT car, but in no way a sports car. No one said it was a sports car. That said, it'll still pull most 'sports cars' pants down. There's really not much to compare it to except maybe an M5. I don't remember the panamera getting everyone's knickers in such a twist except for being ugly. Yes, but they are fast in a dull point and squirt way.

DMC2 said: pheonix478 said: DMC2 said: Sport_Turismo_GTS said: julian987R said: thats true, the Taycan is like a White good.... like a dishwasher, washing machine, totally soulless. Very true An opinion not shared by the vast majority of journalist’s reviews. Lol. Journalists who are too scared to say a bad word about a brand incase you don't get to go on the next jolly. Any journalist or driver with extensive experience of cars will know the limitations of the weight VERY quickly. The Taycan is a great electric GT car, but in no way a sports car. No one said it was a sports car. That said, it'll still pull most 'sports cars' pants down. There's really not much to compare it to except maybe an M5. I don't remember the panamera getting everyone's knickers in such a twist except for being ugly. Yes, but they are fast in a dull point and squirt way. I had a hoot driving one at the Porsche experience . Really well balanced car . Watch fifth gear , see what they think . Read the mags . Or even drive one yourself ? They are not dull or point and squirt . You are just wrong .

DMC2 said: Yes, but they are fast in a dull point and squirt way. I disagree. Firstly the 4s isn't that fast in a straight line. Secondly if you drive it like that then I guess, like any car you drive like that, it would be dull but you'd be missing out on the best bit. Like all the best Porsche it dances on the limit. Friendly four wheel drift tighten or drift wide on the throttle. Brilliant if relatively idiot proof fun. Tactile, scalpel accurate steering and damped to perfection none of which it really has any right to do. Honestly I can only assume you didn't spend much time at all in yours because it sounds like you barely had more than a 5 minute test drive. Each to their own I guess.

Weight is a killer in any car. The Taycan is so heavy no matter how fast it is in a straight line it will never be nimble and pointy like a sports car should be. Its good for an EV but thats it. Each to their own and call me a dinosaur 🦕 but as a true petrol head you will not see me in an EV

Curledge said: Weight is a killer in any car. The Taycan is so heavy no matter how fast it is in a straight line it will never be nimble and pointy like a sports car should be. Its good for an EV but thats it. Each to their own and call me a dinosaur ?? but as a true petrol head you will not see me in an EV No one ever claimed it was a sports car . You are a dinosaur !

Curledge said: Weight is a killer in any car. The Taycan is so heavy no matter how fast it is in a straight line it will never be nimble and pointy like a sports car should be. Its good for an EV but thats it. Each to their own and call me a dinosaur ?? but as a true petrol head you will not see me in an EV A "true petrol head" would understand the effect of weight vs polar moment of inertia and cog on "nimble and pointy"!

I appreciate the aero realities and the marketing realities but it’s a shame the Taycan doesn’t look more like a 992 which is probably Porsche’s most attractive car ever. I’m personally more inclined to buy a Taycan than a 992 as I want a proper boot, at least four seats and quiet motorway cruising in my daily s tter so I get the sales numbers which are obviously helped by tax incentives the world over as well. And if I wanted a sports car, I’m not sure it would be a 992. Porsche has gone too far in the commuter direction for my liking and I don’t particularly like fake sounding turbo-charged cars either with their flat torque curve and easy access to power everywhere. A fake sounding EV is no major downside in comparison and the power delivery is similar enough. In a car like this for me, the ultimate in handling doesn’t matter. That said, I am intrigued by the Taycan GTS and the Sport Turismo body would suit me in fairness.

Its a dull horrid looking thing,about as green as a nuclear power station, batteries are not the future are they? the distance per charge is hideous.Long distance driving on our roads can be stressful enough as it is with out worrying about the next charge point, or future depreciation. The one good thing on porsche behalf is that they have managed to sell so many.

Not for you then … Strangely , not everyone likes the same thing ….

Ev's are destined to be the new Betamax videos. They are not the long term answer no matter how hard the govt forces it through. Wait for another dielselgate U turn and these things will be worthless

Some EVs are good. Some EVs are bad. Some of the smugness is because they are zero emissions out the back, kind of like "if I can't see the mess, it's not happening" I'm not sure evs are the solution but they have become the political easy option. Would be more efficient for many people running a decent petrol car. But that doesn't drive car sales, the economy or win votes. On the taycan it just looks too big for me. Every time I see one in person it kind of surprises me how big it is. Feels like the cls or a7. Lovely looking but it's a barge. For plenty that's great as that's what they want. I've not driven either but on looks I'd actually go the etron gt

Curledge said: Ev's are destined to be the new Betamax videos. They are not the long term answer no matter how hard the govt forces it through. Wait for another dielselgate U turn and these things will be worthless I hope you're right. In the mean time...

Curledge said: Ev's are destined to be the new Betamax videos. They are not the long term answer no matter how hard the govt forces it through. Wait for another dielselgate U turn and these things will be worthless If porn choose hydrogen EVs will be dead

21ATS said: My 4S CT arrives in a week or so. I had zero interest in EV's until I drove a Taycan. We ordered two the day we test drove them. Please do post pics of the interior & exterior - i remembered you are going for the mamba green with offroad option; mine with same locks in Feb.

londonlaw said: 21ATS said: My 4S CT arrives in a week or so. I had zero interest in EV's until I drove a Taycan. We ordered two the day we test drove them. Please do post pics of the interior & exterior - i remembered you are going for the mamba green with offroad option; mine with same locks in Feb. I went with Oak Green Metallic over chalk beige in the end as they opened up PTS options before my spec needed to be locked. I didn't go with the off road pack though.

Curledge said: Ev's are destined to be the new Betamax videos. They are not the long term answer no matter how hard the govt forces it through. Wait for another dielselgate U turn and these things will be worthless The EV bubble will burst probably around the same time the ROLEX one pops, oh and house prices crash. Been on the cards for three decades - still waiting. In the meantime Taycans are trading over list as the demand/wait list is so long.

21ATS said: In the meantime Taycans are trading over list as the demand/wait list is so long. .taycans, 911's and most luxury cars. That isn't reserved to ev cars.

a_dreamer said: On the taycan it just looks too big for me. Every time I see one in person it kind of surprises me how big it is. Feels like the cls or a7. Lovely looking but it's a barge. It’s a function of battery size. If you need a 90+ kWh battery then you get a big [heavy] car. I don’t know if I would call it too big but it’s at least low. Of course in order to make it low it needs to be wide, another common trait of EVs with big batteries.

a_dreamer said: Some EVs are good. Some EVs are bad. Some of the smugness is because they are zero emissions out the back, kind of like "if I can't see the mess, it's not happening" I'm not sure evs are the solution but they have become the political easy option. Would be more efficient for many people running a decent petrol car. But that doesn't drive car sales, the economy or win votes. On the taycan it just looks too big for me. Every time I see one in person it kind of surprises me how big it is. Feels like the cls or a7. Lovely looking but it's a barge. For plenty that's great as that's what they want. I've not driven either but on looks I'd actually go the etron gt May be nothing coming out of the back because its supply is going out of big chimney stacks and cooling towers

Yellow491 said: May be nothing coming out of the back because its supply is going out of big chimney stacks and cooling towers That's my point. Out of sight, out of mind. Like when plastic was deemed environmentally better than glass bottles (and more convenient than recycling) etc etc DMZ said: It’s a function of battery size. If you need a 90+ kWh battery then you get a big [heavy] car. I don’t know if I would call it too big but it’s at least low. Of course in order to make it low it needs to be wide, another common trait of EVs with big batteries. Yeah I think front flaring below the lights makes it look so very wide. I get it, it's the way the world is going and if I had my way Aston and Porsche would only make the nice sports cars but the world is changing. That said, in the showroom I was in they had generations of 911's next to the new one. You could see the evolution in size of the car. The old ones were not much bigger than the plastic ride on ones they try to sell your kids Edited by a_dreamer on Sunday 23 January 17:54

21ATS said: I went with Oak Green Metallic over chalk beige in the end as they opened up PTS options before my spec needed to be locked. I didn't go with the off road pack though. Mamba green too 'loud' in the flesh? Seen couple in summer daylight, but not over winter nor overcast days.

Curledge said: So Porsche has become a SUV brand They have been for a decade or so

cowboyengineer said: Curledge said: So Porsche has become a SUV brand They have been for a decade or so Best not buy one then

londonlaw said: 21ATS said: I went with Oak Green Metallic over chalk beige in the end as they opened up PTS options before my spec needed to be locked. I didn't go with the off road pack though. Mamba green too 'loud' in the flesh? Seen couple in summer daylight, but not over winter nor overcast days. I just wanted the Oak Green, my previous car I'd painted Orange but it was close between that and Green. So when PTS opened up I deceded to go with that. I'll be keeping the car a while so I didn't mind paying for it. Colours are important to me, to some it's options and more performance, but paint colour and combinations is number 1 on my list. I looked at the Mamba on a Macan, I didn't dislike it at all, I just prefered the Oak Green on this particular car.

BAHN-STORMA said: phib said: 4s isn’t a quick one though. All I can tell you is our finding from Goodwood, the 4s isn’t a quick one though A turbo taycan that will do 0-100 in 5.9 is never going to get caught by a 992 that does 0-100 in 8.4 down any of the straights at goodwood or the whole lap for that matter. Phib Edited by phib on Saturday 22 January 16:06 I saw this and didn’t realise it was the ‘slow’ one!! By the way, it beat the 992... around the track! Kind of depressing and impressive!!! It will get caught by the 992 when it stops to recharge. :-)

Fair point . I forgot , petrol cars never need to fill up ….

ds666 said: Fair point . I forgot , petrol cars never need to fill up …. Only takes 5 mins though unless you need a pee also!

This all begs the question about the point of the 991 several years down the line? I've got one on order but the world is changing (charging?) so fast I am not sure how relevant it will be a few years after I get it. Everyone talks about how petrolheads will want one or two nice ICE cars in the garage but there is a large back catalogue to choose from to the extent that I don't see many 'volume' ICE cars such as vanilla 911s holding much value. Future generations have different views, technology always seems to accelerate once changes begin to get established and clean air zones easily destroy the appeal of a car you cannot use as you might wish even for the odd summer jaunt that involves going into a conurbation. Sounds like I am talking myself out of my 992 order (I don't want to) but the Taycan has more space for passengers and stuff. The 992 looks better but is that enough for the future? Edited by EC2 on Monday 24th January 12:29

I think plenty of Taycan owners will have other cars to drive, so are not considering a 911 and a Taycan as interchangeable. What does seem to be fairly clear is that if you want/need an electric car for whatever reason, the Taycan is the best of the bunch for keen drivers, albeit expensive (as is any Porsche). However, that's not to say that the Taycan is better than Porsche's ICE cars or is the best 'sports' car available.

I just took delivery of my second Taycan, a CT 4S with RWS and it is a brilliant car from a driving POV. It really defies the laws of physics in the way its chassis dynamics disguises its 2T+ weight. I also have other NA ICE super/sports cars in the garage for track and weekend fun. At this time of year with temps hovering about 5-6c neither of my ICE cars will keep up with the 4WD CT.

Taffy66 said: I just took delivery of my second Taycan, a CT 4S with RWS and it is a brilliant car from a driving POV. It really defies the laws of physics in the way its chassis dynamics disguises its 2T+ weight. I also have other NA ICE super/sports cars in the garage for track and weekend fun. At this time of year with temps hovering about 5-6c neither of my ICE cars will keep up with the 4WD CT. From memory, you have a very impressive current and previous range of cars, so are well-judged to compare the abilities of the Taycan!

EC2 said: This all begs the question about the point of the 991 several years down the line? I've got one on order but the world is changing (charging?) so fast I am not sure how relevant it will be a few years after I get it. Everyone talks about how petrolheads will want one or two nice ICE cars in the garage but there is a large back catalogue to choose from to the extent that I don't see many 'volume' ICE cars such as vanilla 911s holding much value. Future generations have different views, technology always seems to accelerate once changes begin to get established and clean air zones easily destroy the appeal of a car you cannot use as you might wish even for the odd summer jaunt that involves going into a conurbation. Sounds like I am talking myself out of my 992 order (I don't want to) but the Taycan has more space for passengers and stuff. The 992 looks better but is that enough for the future? Edited by EC2 on Monday 24th January 12:29 A tricky one, but I’d keep your 992 order. I’m not sure about which is better looking, but I’d sell my Taycan before the 911. I’d still have to think about though.

EC2 said: This all begs the question about the point of the 991 several years down the line? I've got one on order but the world is changing (charging?) so fast I am not sure how relevant it will be a few years after I get it. Everyone talks about how petrolheads will want one or two nice ICE cars in the garage but there is a large back catalogue to choose from to the extent that I don't see many 'volume' ICE cars such as vanilla 911s holding much value. Future generations have different views, technology always seems to accelerate once changes begin to get established and clean air zones easily destroy the appeal of a car you cannot use as you might wish even for the odd summer jaunt that involves going into a conurbation. Sounds like I am talking myself out of my 992 order (I don't want to) but the Taycan has more space for passengers and stuff. The 992 looks better but is that enough for the future? They're different cars intended for different purposes IMO. The 911 was always the lighter weight, two seat (plus a bit) sportscar. Compact, great tactility, decent noise (with the right exhaust) etc. And it looked great. The Taycan's a bigger car, intended to be able to be used more as a family car (IMO). The challenge with the 992 (IMO) is that they have grown (relatively small amounts on paper make a difference), the engines aren't what they were (in efforts to make them more green) and whilst still a decent GT, they've grown away from being sportscars (in vanilla flavour). Personally I wouldn't be buying any new ICE "sportscars" now (be it 911, F8, Huracan, V8 Vantage....or down to things like M3, C63 or RS4). That ship's sailed and, as you note, there are so many ICE sportscars from the ICE back catalogue to choose from that I no longer see the point in the new ones now (never, ever, thought I'd find myself saying that openly ). I have yet to try a Taycan - ticking that off on Friday. But my current thinking, if they are as good as people note, is that it will replace my 911 and RS4. I can't imagine me never having an ICE car in the garage, and with so any unbelievable cars to choose from there'll hopefully be time to sample a good number (I've been thinking for some time that sports/fast cars generally are losing their way. Seeming focus on top speed and acceleration beyond sensible limits, plus factors like safety and comfort "requirements" have meant they've grown massively (dimensions and weight....the latter, and width being the key ones IMO). Much of my driving is on b-roads, so these things are a challenge. Yes, I know how big and heavy the Taycan is But it's not really a sportscar and has family duties too...if it were narrower and lighter I'd be doubly happy ).

Murph7355 said: They're different cars intended for different purposes IMO. The 911 was always the lighter weight, two seat (plus a bit) sportscar. Compact, great tactility, decent noise (with the right exhaust) etc. And it looked great. The Taycan's a bigger car, intended to be able to be used more as a family car (IMO). The challenge with the 992 (IMO) is that they have grown (relatively small amounts on paper make a difference), the engines aren't what they were (in efforts to make them more green) and whilst still a decent GT, they've grown away from being sportscars (in vanilla flavour). Personally I wouldn't be buying any new ICE "sportscars" now (be it 911, F8, Huracan, V8 Vantage....or down to things like M3, C63 or RS4). That ship's sailed and, as you note, there are so many ICE sportscars from the ICE back catalogue to choose from that I no longer see the point in the new ones now (never, ever, thought I'd find myself saying that openly ). I have yet to try a Taycan - ticking that off on Friday. But my current thinking, if they are as good as people note, is that it will replace my 911 and RS4. I can't imagine me never having an ICE car in the garage, and with so any unbelievable cars to choose from there'll hopefully be time to sample a good number (I've been thinking for some time that sports/fast cars generally are losing their way. Seeming focus on top speed and acceleration beyond sensible limits, plus factors like safety and comfort "requirements" have meant they've grown massively (dimensions and weight....the latter, and width being the key ones IMO). Much of my driving is on b-roads, so these things are a challenge. Yes, I know how big and heavy the Taycan is But it's not really a sportscar and has family duties too...if it were narrower and lighter I'd be doubly happy ). Funnily enough I went to buy a Cayman 4.0 and was unimpressed by the engine note, mind I'm coming from a Maserati 4.7 n/a V8 so most things sound dull. I then drove a 911 and really enjoyed it and realised that the depreciation to GFV over four years was about the same base 911 to 4.0 718 Cayman. Perhaps not the best way to choose but I want(ed) a last ICE, however, it is hard to find anything that interesting anymore with GPFs. I have a petrol XC90 for family duties which is perfect so might rethink how to piece these two cars together. Edited by EC2 on Monday 24th January 15:20

EC2 said: Funnily enough I went to buy a Cayman 4.0 and was unimpressed by the engine note, mind I'm coming from a Maserati 4.7 n/a V8 so most things sound dull. I then drove a 911 and really enjoyed it and realised that the depreciation to GFV over four years was about the same base 911 to 4.0 718 Cayman. Perhaps not the best way to choose but I want(ed) a last ICE, however, it is hard to find anything that interesting anymore with GPFs. I have a petrol XC90 for family duties which is perfect so might rethink how to piece these two cars together. Depends if you need more than the XC90 to cover family duties.... For "interesting" ICE I'd be going older personally. If it doesn't have to carry more than two people there's so much out there that won't depreciate that much now.... Including older 911s.

Murph7355 said: Depends if you need more than the XC90 to cover family duties.... For "interesting" ICE I'd be going older personally. If it doesn't have to carry more than two people there's so much out there that won't depreciate that much now.... Including older 911s. Volvo needs to stay really for holidays and university runs. I also rather like it as it threatens no one. New car wise the F Type has always appealed and the new Supra offers passing interest but you might be right in that going older makes more sense for styling, noise and value reasons.

Murph7355 said: Depends if you need more than the XC90 to cover family duties.... For "interesting" ICE I'd be going older personally. If it doesn't have to carry more than two people there's so much out there that won't depreciate that much now.... Including older 911s. Older cars have increased so much recently, but I am keeping an eye on CollectingCars for a 1973 911!

I've no intention of buying a Taycan but IMO its success illustrates what can be achieved when a manufacturer gets its product "right" for the market.

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: Murph7355 said: Depends if you need more than the XC90 to cover family duties.... For "interesting" ICE I'd be going older personally. If it doesn't have to carry more than two people there's so much out there that won't depreciate that much now.... Including older 911s. Older cars have increased so much recently, but I am keeping an eye on CollectingCars for a 1973 911! How about this one ? Strictly it’s a 71 … well the body and chassis are but the reg is 73 !

phib said: How about this one ? Strictly it’s a 71 … well the body and chassis are but the reg is 73 ! Yours? Tell me about it!

phib said: Sport_Turismo_GTS said: Murph7355 said: Depends if you need more than the XC90 to cover family duties.... For "interesting" ICE I'd be going older personally. If it doesn't have to carry more than two people there's so much out there that won't depreciate that much now.... Including older 911s. Older cars have increased so much recently, but I am keeping an eye on CollectingCars for a 1973 911! How about this one ? Strictly it’s a 71 … well the body and chassis are but the reg is 73 ! Philb Why not do a thread on the 911 in readers cars ?

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: Yours? Tell me about it! Yes mine, it’s a bitsa ! Started life as a 1971 2.2 ‘s’ and then ended up in the USA having a 3.0sc engine fitted and being forwarded dated. Then Came to the uk and was owned by a classic car restorer who part backdated her, added 18 inch wheels (soon to be gone and 15’s going on ) and added a fully working 964 electric rear spoiler ! It also at some point had all steel wide arches fitted and was resprayed grey. It’s a big of a work in progress but now got a taycan and haven’t driven it very much. It may go in collecting cars when I finally get it how I want it however it’s got an mot with no advisories !! Phib

phib said: Yes mine, it’s a bitsa ! Started life as a 1971 2.2 ‘s’ and then ended up in the USA having a 3.0sc engine fitted and being forwarded dated. Then Came to the uk and was owned by a classic car restorer who part backdated her, added 18 inch wheels (soon to be gone and 15’s going on ) and added a fully working 964 electric rear spoiler ! It also at some point had all steel wide arches fitted and was resprayed grey. It’s a big of a work in progress but now got a taycan and haven’t driven it very much. It may go in collecting cars when I finally get it how I want it however it’s got an mot with no advisories !! Phib Sounds like it deserves a separate thread!

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: phib said: Yes mine, it’s a bitsa ! Started life as a 1971 2.2 ‘s’ and then ended up in the USA having a 3.0sc engine fitted and being forwarded dated. Then Came to the uk and was owned by a classic car restorer who part backdated her, added 18 inch wheels (soon to be gone and 15’s going on ) and added a fully working 964 electric rear spoiler ! It also at some point had all steel wide arches fitted and was resprayed grey. It’s a big of a work in progress but now got a taycan and haven’t driven it very much. It may go in collecting cars when I finally get it how I want it however it’s got an mot with no advisories !! Phib Sounds like it deserves a separate thread! Wow what a thing to do to a 2.2S !! Guess the original work was done a long time ago ?

Cheib said: Wow what a thing to do to a 2.2S !! Guess the original work was done a long time ago ? Yes work must have been done in the early 90's I have pictures when it looked like a turbo when a 2.2 was probably worth £10k. Phib

Sport_Turismo_GTS said: phib said: Yes mine, it’s a bitsa ! Started life as a 1971 2.2 ‘s’ and then ended up in the USA having a 3.0sc engine fitted and being forwarded dated. Then Came to the uk and was owned by a classic car restorer who part backdated her, added 18 inch wheels (soon to be gone and 15’s going on ) and added a fully working 964 electric rear spoiler ! It also at some point had all steel wide arches fitted and was resprayed grey. It’s a big of a work in progress but now got a taycan and haven’t driven it very much. It may go in collecting cars when I finally get it how I want it however it’s got an mot with no advisories !! Phib Sounds like it deserves a separate thread! Wow what a thing to do to a 2.2S !! Guess the original work was done a long time ago ?