996 Moly Oils to Postpone Bore Scoring - Which One?

Although I have had multiple Porsches over the years, from 912s to 911s (air and water cooled), to 914s, a 916(!), 928s, and Boxsters. Now, I have acquired a 1999 996, and I love this car. It is 25 years old at this point, and I want to drive it indefinitely. I have taken care of the IMS issue by replacing the factory bearing with the LN Retrofit, but knowing the design of this engine, especially with the Lokasil cylinder walls, I worry about the inevitable arrival of bore scoring. The goal is to delay this as long as practicable. IF you replace the fuel injectors with new factory units, use only TopTier fuels, and keep the induction areas nice and tight, fuel dilution should be minimal – which you monitor by oil analysis. The final – and critical question is, “WHAT OIL SHOULD I USE?” To quote Lake Speed Jr, one needs: The right OIL, in The right AMOUNT, in The right PLACE, at The right TIME The M96 engine has some very specific needs for oil that cannot be met by typical A40 or C40 lubricants. Along with the more conventional needs of any engine, the pistons, rings, and cylinders are in a very special environment and need very special protection. Specifically: RINGS: These are ferrous metals, and benefit from the inclusion of ZDDP that forms polar bonds with those metals to reduce wear. CYLINDERS: The Lokasil cylinder is a metallurgic wonder that infuses silicon into the part of the casting that is immediately adjacent to the cylinder wall. The result is a surface that is “rough enough” to hold on to a very thin lubricant film, but not so rough that it causes excess wear of the rings. PISTONS: These are aluminum, but have an iron (ferrous) coating on the skirt, where it may contact the Lokasil cylinder walls. So the ZDDP is certainly important to the iron coating, but what happens if the piston aluminum contacts the aluminum cylinder wall? ALUMINUM + ALUMINUM = WELDING! Imagine a piston that is experiencing inevitable wear, and the iron coating on the skirt is getting thinner and thinner until the bare aluminum shows through. We now risk the brief contact between the piston skirt and cylinder wall and welding/release/re-welding with each stroke. Soon the scoring appears, and eventually the cylinder becomes oval-shaped and destroys itself with the fatal D-chunk. Designing an oil to address all of these issues……without having to consider political/regulatory concerns of CAF� and emissions: The ideal M96 oil would: 1, Have significant (>400 PPM) of molybdenum – a non-polar molecule that clings to non-ferrous metals, such as aluminum. Forms and re-forms protective plates that reduce wear. 2. Have significant ZDDP content for ferrous surface protection. 3. Have high-temperature/high-shear viscosity for the area of operation. 4. Be properly formulated and balanced 5. Made by a reputable and experienced firm. 6. NOT an untested mixture of store-bought additives mixed with another oil. This is not a science experiment! - (LS,Jr.) After doing a lot of reading and, admittedly, watching a LOT of PCA/LN/Lake Speed Jr videos, I have come to a decision for myself – This is not a recommendation, as your goals and situation may vary. But I think it will suit my needs. Both Driven DT40 (5W-40) and Liqui Moly MoS2 Anti Friction (10W-40) fit the above requirements. Here are a few comparative numbers, (in PPM) DT40 va. LIQUI MOLY MoS2 Molybdenum 517 500 Phosphorus 1099 1064 Zinc 1179 1228 Magnesium 9 1250 Calcium 1777 1165 Boron 186 86 The similarities between these oils is striking: significant (and similar) Zinc, Phosphorus, and Molybdenum levels, A few differences in some of the other elements, (likely to properly balance the additive package?) One item of note: DT40 is a fully synthetic oil, while Liqui Moly is a synthetic blend. CONCLUSION: I operate in a hot desert environment, and the engine never sees starts below 60 degrees, but often sees temperatures in the triple digits. I change my oil every 3,000 miles and twice annually. Cost is a factor as well. The DT40 from LN runs about $16/quart; the Liqui Moly runs $8.00/quart from FCP Euro. I like both the higher viscosity (desert, remember?) of the 10W-40 as well as the affordability. Liqui Moly holds the original patent on molybdenum disulfide and is perhaps the premier automotive oil producer in Germany. I would trust them as much as I would trust Lake – both professionals. So unless my upcoming oil analysis shows anything to the contrary, I will be trusting the Liqui Moly to help keep the bore scoring away for a long time to come. Please comment....... (As if my Porsche brethren need permission?)

Why not use 5w-50 with those ambient temperatures? edit: Driven FR50 Am I interpreting this correctly?: It sounds like you�re only accumulating around 6,000 miles per year (two oil changes annually?). Also, I would focus on improving the cooling system as much as possible. The oil cooler is cooled via coolant, so it�d help to manage the coolant temp too. I would do the following to the cooling system: -LN low temp thermostat -clean debris from bumper & between AC condenser / side radiators -add 3rd (center) radiator -replace both side radiators with CSF all-aluminum units -mod the radiator fans to activate via a manually-controlled switch. Bonus if you wire the both low- and high-speeds so you can selectively activate them for the proper occasion.

Consider adding the UAOS with track drain . Why ? It allows 2 additional quarts of oil to be run . I agree on adding the center radiator if you don't have one .

You can also buy MOS2 as a separate additive (about 25cl per oil change I think), which you can use in conjunction with whatever A40 oil you want.

Why not buy your oil from FCP and do the return/exchange deal it will save you money after the 2nd change

I posted this the other day on your other oil thread. If you haven't read thru the thread and haven't watched the video, you should. If you like what Lake has to say then you want to take a look at the Driven DI40 and DI50 oils for the M96. He is recommending DI over DT in our engines for all of the reasons you state. But no question, it's more expensive than DT, so many will not make the change based in price. But you know the routine, run the best oil as possible in our engines, upgrade your AOS so you can run more oil quantity, change your oil frequently, make sure your fuel injectors and oxy sensors are functioning properly, get your oil temps good and hot to burn off moisture, etc. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...pca-video.html

@ Munkustrap there is a ton of information circulating on the interwebs regarding the M96 engines and their potential problems. I would suggest researching multiple points of view from experienced techs and come to your own conclusions for an oil choice that suits your ownership needs. My first alarm bell with your original post is someone using the term "Alusil" incorrectly when referring to M96 engines.

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Mind sharing a picture of the car? btw... the M96 5-chain engine in your car is not Alusil, it's Lokasil.

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I haven�t heard of this� I DO buy my oil from FCP�. Couldn�t find anything on their website about return/exchange�. Please describe?

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Wow, didn't know a company could patent a naturally found mineral compound. Please elaborate. I'm moving to the front row in this class.

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@Munkustrap Maybe the long original description in the thread could have been summed up in one sentence: "Liqui Moly is as good or better than Driven DT40 in the fight to mitigate the chances of bore scoring in the Porsche M96 engine, change my mind. "

Yeah, the OPs original question of which Moly oil to use to postpone bore scoring is not the right question to ask. Because the cause if bore scoring is multifaceted. Plenty of great oils out there that we can argue about with varying qualities that will help the cause.

Like your thinking, Herr Zeus!!! Brilliant.

Yes, I totally agree that the bore scoring issue is hugely multifactorial. Although there are MANY factors, I think the largest controllable factors are: 1, Reducing or eliminating malfunctions in injectors that produce oil dilution and washing of cylinder bores 2. Ensuring proper fuel mixtures by maintaining induction systems and fuel metering systems. 3. Investing in strategies that appropriately reduce heat loads on the engine. (T-stats, additional coolers, etc) 4. Using a TopTier fuel to keep injectors clean. 5. Using the most appropriate oil and changing/analyzing it frequently. My post is limited to the choice in oil...... I think a moly-based oil (NOT just pouring in an aftermarket additive) is critical to protecting the potential aluminum/aluminum interface in the cylinder itself.

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This may help.... Herr Henle's patent was for a stable oil additive based on molybdenum disulfide (MoS2). Of course, the additive can certainly receive patent protection, however the molecule of MoS2 certainly could not. https://www.liqui-moly.com/en/us/com...y-history.html Thanks for keeping me honest here!

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Herr Zeus, You are of course, correct about Lokasil...I think I was posting past my Labrador's bedtime and got my "sils" mixed up. Here is a pic of my 996:

Ah, yeah. That reminds me. About point number 4 It�s also recommended to use an in-tank injector cleaner additive, like Driven Injector Defender, to promote more cleaning.

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Don't forget 1. Cold start and oil warm up procedures 2. Get more oil quantity in the engine safely with better parts and procedures. 3. Once warm, drive it like you mean it procedures At the end of the day, its pretty easy to take care of the 996. Everyone of these items and procedures we all listed are common sense and should be applied to all cars. But most don't because a car is considered transportation with a 3-7 year life until its replaced. Not a 911. It's something that most will keep for awhile and they want to take better care of it than their DD Honda Accord.

Remember that the oil gets thinner with more heat, and the Bank 2 thrust side of the cylinders gets the most heat ( which is where bore scoring occurs) so a higher viscosity oil (HTHS) would protect better on a larger scale ( moly protects on a micro-scale) ......and the manufacture who makes the failing cylinders/pistons recommend a 40 weight ( A40) , but I recommend a 50 weight ( with Moly) ...

Ptech3 are you running a 5w50 oil in your 996 on the street ? I am in Georgia so similar weather conditions as you have in Bama . What brand/s have you had success with ?

I like a 5w-50 for the street and for very cold weather like less than 14F (That rarely every happens in Bama , I just wait it out for a few days)...but mostly a 15w-50 or even a 20w-50 or 10W-60 for the Track in high temps.. I don't like to name brand names because I think they all have a lot more testing and information than they give us ( like head-to-head testing ).....and there is only 3 companies that make the base oils and 4 companies that make the additives .But I do like the group 4 and group 5 oils ( PAO and Esters) due to the high temp resistance and that they resist aeration the best, and of course ZDDP and Moly in healthy doses...( I read a lot of SAE white papers and research papers ) .....yes I not a Trobologist and don't know the exact mixtures of the additives , but I listen to the experts on the subject also just like everyone else, but I listen with my own filter from my own personal experiences..( I have always loved failure analysis on engines ) and nothing I say will contradict the experts... But just to throw out some names I was impressed with Motul 300V Competition 15w-50 ( and yes I even use this on the street in Bama, but change it often) and I believe Driven Xp6 , Amsoil Dominator , Millers CFS all meet my preference of group 4&5 , PAO/Esters, available in a 50 weight, has high doses of ZDDP and Moly...there are probably others also I would think ..they change up quite a lot on the additives..

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What�s the lowest ambient temperature you would use with 15w-50?

Here is the SAE min specs that oil has to meet as of 2015 SAE J300 , it says 15W-X is ok down to -20C ( -4F) , but I like to be a bit more conservative in cold weather and consider under 14F as too cold to run the Porsche...( in Bama ) .

10W-60! I used that molasses in my Z4MC with the S54. Takes a loonnngggg time to get up to temp, north of the Mason-Dixon line where I live.

Yea, but that 10W-60 will get "just right" in July on the Track in 100F ambient temps when the oil temps get above 275F !! PS : and I know 10W-60 will cost a few mpg and a couple of hp , but I don't sweat the small stuff !!