Why so much negativity on here about the 981? - Page 5 - Boxster/Cayman - PistonHeads UK

Can I just point out in your option 3, you yourself are running down the 718.

Not really my perception at all, got any recent examples?

It seems to me that there are some on this particular forum who seem to have nothing better to do than run down anything 981 related, regardless as to whether the car is at fault or not. Don't get it, genuine question, why? Option one, they have a 981 so want to lower the value of their own car when they come to sell it (not overly bright) Option two, they sold their 981 before the prices went up and wish they hadn't bailed out on the cheap (bitter) Option three, they are 718 owners happy they moved on (why bother) Option four, they are Porsche owners who takes pleasure in damaging the brand they own through loose talk (short sighted) Option five, don't have and never have owned a Porsche but do it because they have nothing better to do (get a life) Which is the most likely here? Edited by 981Boxess on Friday 11th June 12:34

jonny996 said: Can I just point out in your option 3, you yourself are running down the 718. Point taken, wasn't intended, now edited

I don't understand why people get butt hurt about what other people think. Who cares, really. If you do, take a long hard look at yourself and get over it. Not driven a 981, be happy to, be happy to own one and am sure it would be bloody good fun. I have a lowly 718 F4T, us owners are looked down upon in the same way as 996 owners (I'm joking BTW, actually love 996's - especially the widebodies). At the end of the day it's the internets and people behave quite differently to how they would in person. If anything I'd say there's way more 981 fanboys on here than 718 owners claiming their cars are better/berating the 981. YMMV. More politics than Parliament, no thick skin required, its all banter and if you feel otherwise, don't sweat it - enjoy your car and life, there's more to worry about than strangers on the www.

Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective.

Varelco said: Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective. Have often heard this view. Perhaps Rowan Atkinson was thinking along similar lines when he said, "They’re wonderful cars – I don’t go around saying Porsches are a pile of dung – but I know I could never live with one. Somehow the typical Porsche people – and I wish them no ill – are not, I feel, my kind of people."

Varelco said: Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective. There are a few tetchy individuals willing to square up at the merest hint of disagreement, there are also know-it-alls, obsessives and people who seem to have some sort of online ASD. Some threads are very helpful and others very entertaining, but we're always just a post away from a spat.

pete.g said: There are a few tetchy individuals willing to square up at the merest hint of disagreement, there are also know-it-alls, obsessives and people who seem to have some sort of online ASD. Some threads are very helpful and others very entertaining, but we're always just a post away from a spat. No we're not

Fantastic cars. Nuff.

Always a few unsavory characters spurred on by anonymous posting, that said there's also some good knowledge and helpful posters on here too. As for the war between different owner 'tribes', either the brand attracts certain personalities OR perhaps car talk is one of the few safe subjects left these days where people can let loose and vent their thoughts without the risk of being pounced on by the 'woke' police... 987 is the best version anyway, who cares about 981s and 718s..

Lexington59 said: Always a few unsavory characters spurred on by anonymous posting, that said there's also some good knowledge and helpful posters on here too. As for the war between different owner 'tribes', either the brand attracts certain personalities OR perhaps car talk is one of the few safe subjects left these days where people can let loose and vent their thoughts without the risk of being pounced on by the 'woke' police... 987 is the best version anyway, who cares about 981s and 718s.. that’s rich...

I think there's a bit of psychology going on with this particular subject. First, whatever car you own you want to know you made a good decision when you bought it. No one wants to hear that the car they've just spent their hard earned on is a nail, everyone hates it and they made a bad decision. So when someone asks a question about the 981 or 982 (718) it sparks a need to sing the virtues of their car over the others. Second, there are things the 981 does better than the 982 and vice versa. the two camps spend an inordinate amount of time arguing about this and the outcome is always the same, no one wins because no one can win, you like what you like, you bought what you bought and the differences are mostly irrelevant to the rest of us who either get bored of listening to the same old arguments and leave or try to take the middle ground and point out the good in both. Third, there were (are ) some people who posted views on many of these debates that were so polarised and sometimes quite offensive it took away the pleasure of debate and frankly made the subject of comparing the 2 models and the previous 987/986 quite toxic. I've owned 987/981/982 and have posted my thoughts on the merits of all of them on PH in the past and the 981 is in my humble opinion still a quite brilliant car to own and enjoy as is the 982 and 987. Try them all and buy the one you like.

Don’t you be coming round ‘ere with all your sensible talk…..

It's all just b ks anyway. Years ago the magazines used to slag of the 964RS and you could them up for pence. Probably everyone kept spouting the same guff, now look at them. When those funny kettle came along ( ) a lot of air cooled folk got very shouty, even worse when the 4x4 came along. At the end of the day they are all great cars, even the tips, and there is really very little between them.

I sometimes feel there is a slightly unhealthy obsession as to what the cars are worth. Makes me think some have overstretched themselves or have bought as an investment..... Happy motoring all and enjoy the impending glorious weather. X

You would expect the later car to be an improvement which should in no way reflect badly on the 981. I owned a 981 Boxter S for a while and have since been through a 991.2 C2S and now have a 992 C4S. Much as I respect and admire the 911s, I look back on my time with the 981 with great fondness and have not had more fun in a car. I recently drove the 718 GTS 4.0 which was stunning but the only real world difference I could detect between it and my 981 was the additional grunt of the engine. You would have to drive them back to back to detect any handling differences - even the interiors are hardly any different.

Not having driven my 981 since February which is my fun car for track and Peak District blastsdue to it being in the shop, seeing Instagram posts of the work quite regularly. Not driving my company car due to customers not accepting visitors where I used to do 20k+ business miles per year all over the UK and now just using my wife’s Golf convertible for running around the village I think any Porsche is just brilliant. I’m not bitter, honest…

Honestly? I think it sits in a strange place whereby some with 987s will feel the need to justify to themselves that that is the better car, and then some 911 owners will look down on the caysters because it’s ‘not a real Porsche’. People in those groups are in the minority of true enthusiasts but their posts will crop up. I think the 981 is fab, steering is nothing like the Lotus I had before it but it’s incredibly precise, the chassis is lovely, interior well ahead of the 987 and the engine, particularly with PSE or aftermarket equivalent will be remembered as a special one. Anyway, I don’t think there is such thing as a bad 2 door water cooled Porsche, they’re all different in their own ways.

Whatevs The 981 Boxster S (PDK) is the only Porker I’ve driven. 6 months of ownership later, I’m really warming to it. Perhaps I was always gonna give it a hard time as I really enjoyed the V8 Vantage S before it (shifted for a motorhome... idiot that I am). That car had masses of personality, also in non-manual. But... but... after two days of longer drives with the roof down, it’s proven to be an absolute blast down B-roads. Tackling corners is its party piece. Ride quality, even on the larger alloys without adaptive suspension, is to be really admired. Engine is good for pootling around in, but when you get the chance to stretch it, it really grabs your attention. Biggest surprise is how much I have it in paddle mode. I love switching between standard, Sport and Sport + to suit the road and mood. Could easily live in an example without the S+ mode, but the rifle bolt gear changes are fun. Wish the paddles rotated with the wheel, but it’s actually interactive and fun. And gearing is spot-on in a PDK. Never driven a manual, so no comment either way there. Sound isn’t it’s strong point. Always find Porsche boxer engines sound like a bag of spanners until spinning faster. Still think that personally, but that’s just me. Not going to start playing with exhausts as it’s not a detractor for me when on the move. Just still miss the amazing burble of a great V8. Is it better than the Boxsters or Caymans before or after? Don’t know. Don’t care. It suits me. Hope others enjoy their cars regardless what model. Just drive the thing.

nickv8 said: Wish the paddles rotated with the wheel, ............. They do on at least two of the wheel paddle/button options

Varelco said: Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective. I thought the same thing when I started looking in the porsche section (7-8 years ago).

The thing is All mid-engined Porsches are simply great cars. Without exception.

981Boxess said: hey do on at least two of the wheel paddle/button options Is there? Genuine full-sized paddles and not buttons?

Wollemi said: The thing is All mid-engined Porsches are simply great cars. Without exception. Too right! (Although I admit to thinking about getting a 914 in the 90’s, but lumped for a succession of X1/9’s as I know quality when I see it...)

webstercivet said: Varelco said: Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective. Have often heard this view. Perhaps Rowan Atkinson was thinking along similar lines when he said, "They’re wonderful cars – I don’t go around saying Porsches are a pile of dung – but I know I could never live with one. Somehow the typical Porsche people – and I wish them no ill – are not, I feel, my kind of people." I had a 981 Boxster Black Edition, didn't enjoy the ownership experience at all, car was only average IMHO to drive, engineering and quality vastly over hyped, dealers and other Porsche owners pretty terrible too....couldn't even fit Zunsport grills or have a tyre repaired without the Porsche warranty boys on the case....just waiting for the engine mounts to fail...... As an all round package I'd put a 981 Boxster below the following cars I've owned the last 20 years...S3 Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, R172 Mercedes SLK55 (x2), Mercedes W205 C63 and finally my new Toyota GR Yaris CP. (Might even put it below my Mk2 Escort 1600 Sport).

Holgate86 said: webstercivet said: Varelco said: Having recently shown an interest in Porsches and spend more time reading and looking around forums I've notice you lot are a hostile bunch to each other. Find it odd from an outsiders perspective. Have often heard this view. Perhaps Rowan Atkinson was thinking along similar lines when he said, "They’re wonderful cars – I don’t go around saying Porsches are a pile of dung – but I know I could never live with one. Somehow the typical Porsche people – and I wish them no ill – are not, I feel, my kind of people." I had a 981 Boxster Black Edition, didn't enjoy the ownership experience at all, car was only average IMHO to drive, engineering and quality vastly over hyped, dealers and other Porsche owners pretty terrible too....couldn't even fit Zunsport grills or have a tyre repaired without the Porsche warranty boys on the case....just waiting for the engine mounts to fail...... As an all round package I'd put a 981 Boxster below the following cars I've owned the last 20 years...S3 Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, R172 Mercedes SLK55 (x2), Mercedes W205 C63 and finally my new Toyota GR Yaris CP. (Might even put it below my Mk2 Escort 1600 Sport). Just goes to prove the subjectivity in judging cars. Putting a Lotus ahead of anything on quality is a reach - we gave up that marque after the second fire . . .

Porsche changed so much between 9x7 and 9x1 that it’s nearly difficult to see how you can like both. For me Porsches lost a lot of their appeal in that transition but I’m sure for others it’s the other way around and he/she who spends their money gets to decide so not sure why anyone would really care about what others think. The way things are at the moment I’d say you’d be making money while enjoying them too so how bad.

Holgate86 said: I had a 981 Boxster Black Edition, didn't enjoy the ownership experience at all, car was only average IMHO to drive, engineering and quality vastly over hyped, dealers and other Porsche owners pretty terrible too....couldn't even fit Zunsport grills or have a tyre repaired without the Porsche warranty boys on the case....just waiting for the engine mounts to fail...... As an all round package I'd put a 981 Boxster below the following cars I've owned the last 20 years...S3 Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, R172 Mercedes SLK55 (x2), Mercedes W205 C63 and finally my new Toyota GR Yaris CP. (Might even put it below my Mk2 Escort 1600 Sport). I'd trust my old Lotus more than the 981 that preceded it. And it was more fun (by a long way). Porsche ownership is strange and not something I'm in a hurry to return to.

nickv8 said: 981Boxess said: hey do on at least two of the wheel paddle/button options Is there? Genuine full-sized paddles and not buttons? I have two wheels, one has the buttons, one has the full sized paddles, both turn with the wheel.

981Boxess said: I have two wheels, one has the buttons, one has the full sized paddles, both turn with the wheel. Interested! Was this another option? I have the sports wheel(?) which, pleasingly, is very plain and devoid of other controls. But the metal paddles are fixed to the column. I’m aware of the wheel with buttons (standard). Please can you post an image of your wheel with paddles, please?

Used to own a Sapphire Blue 981 C GTS, PDK, PCCB, just best spec. As much as I loved the car, the interior, the exterior, the throttle response, the engine so free running like there was no resistance at all, the insane brakes, the PDK even more insane. It was just awesome. But all these supurb things couldn't live up the fact me how bad the steering was, the initials response too slow and vague, too much self centering force to it, no feeling what so ever. The sh.tty steering was the reason and the only reason I sold that car. |https://thumbsnap.com/qqnsJgvc[/url] Edited by Romo on Sunday 13th June 10:12

Having jumped back and forth between a 981 and 987.2 over a 1000 miles of road tripping, I could not settle for the 981 steering after experiencing the 987. Unfortunately the 981 steering was closer in feel to a BMW than a Porsche. Never driven a 718 but would be interested to see how things have progressed after the regression of feel from 987 to 981.

Well, I have a 718 GT4 PDK PCCB top spec now, the steering is much much better, although initial steering reaction n is not as quick as my M2CS Out overal there is no comparison steering 981 GTS a d 718 GT4

nickv8 said: 981Boxess said: I have two wheels, one has the buttons, one has the full sized paddles, both turn with the wheel. Interested! Was this another option? I have the sports wheel(?) which, pleasingly, is very plain and devoid of other controls. But the metal paddles are fixed to the column. I’m aware of the wheel with buttons (standard). Please can you post an image of your wheel with paddles, please? I could but this is it here: https://content3.eu.porsche.com/prod/pag/tequipmen...

anonymous said: [redacted] I only speak for my self. I only act for my self I only buy a car for myself. Of course some people like the 981 steering, I'm perfectly allright with that, I respect every other opinion on the steering, but I do respect my own opinion i.c. feeling the most :-) and I didn't like the steering nor the feel of it. No offense. Enjoy driving and sty save ! Edited by Romo on Sunday 13th June 16:53

We agree :-) Just enjoy ICE as long as possible !

In my view, the thing about the 981 is that the 718 is better. F4, F6, whatever. Far better, much improved, better steering, handling etc, and that comment seems to rub the sensitive 981 owners up the wrong way sometimes, feeling defensive about having their ‘p&j’ (in their minds) insulted. Now all well and good and fair enough you say. Or not. But please bear with me, some of these same 981 owners (not cossers afaik) had no such problems bashing the 718 at every opportunity when it came out a couple of years back or so and no compunction at all insulting others’ ‘p&js’. Pot, kettle...? Personally I think the same thing seems to happen each time Porsche change something, the move to water cooling for example. Bottom line is everybody wants to talk up their cars and are often unable to take criticism. As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, they are thoroughly invested. I suppose these forums are ultimately just excellent ongoing examples of ‘Choice-supportive bias’, (if you study psychology.) So all fairly pointless really. However I think where owners have owned different cars and can also explain their rationale for changing, including the negative feedback, then this can be useful info. So is not really negativity at all, just progress. Looking forward to the ICE vs EV debates then. Ymmv of course, etc.

I think every car has a drawback of some variety... My 458's steering rack slightly too quick, throttle response very sensitive in town, exhaust note a bit blary (all blah or not a lot)...etc etc etc..but they're still brilliant cars. GT3 long geared, probably too capable for the UK roads to get any real enjoyment for its' purpose as intended... How much importance you put on one thing will differ from person to person, but at the end of the day, for me, it's how everything adds up to an overall package that matters. My 981 GTS has X73 suspension, how much that makes a difference to steering feel is questionable, however it turns in brilliantly, is great fun to drive through the lanes and makes me laugh with the drive and sound it offers. Compared to previous 'R' yes it loses steering feel, but other ingredients of the 981 GTS add up to something I think is brilliant. It's a proper Porsche. Edited by MrVert on Sunday 13th June 21:36

Schmed said: In my view, the thing about the 981 is that the 718 is better. F4, F6, whatever. Far better, much improved, better steering, handling etc, and that comment seems to rub the sensitive 981 owners up the wrong way sometimes, feeling defensive about having their ‘p&j’ (in their minds) insulted. Now all well and good and fair enough you say. Or not. But please bear with me, some of these same 981 owners (not cossers afaik) had no such problems bashing the 718 at every opportunity when it came out a couple of years back or so and no compunction at all insulting others’ ‘p&js’. Pot, kettle...? Personally I think the same thing seems to happen each time Porsche change something, the move to water cooling for example. Bottom line is everybody wants to talk up their cars and are often unable to take criticism. As somebody pointed out earlier in this thread, they are thoroughly invested. I suppose these forums are ultimately just excellent ongoing examples of ‘Choice-supportive bias’, (if you study psychology.) So all fairly pointless really. However I think where owners have owned different cars and can also explain their rationale for changing, including the negative feedback, then this can be useful info. So is not really negativity at all, just progress. Looking forward to the ICE vs EV debates then. Ymmv of course, etc. I was very fortunate to find myself standing in a OPC earlier this year with a choice of two cars to buy, for exactly the same money. One was a Boxter S 981, the other a Boxster 718, I could have bought either, it was my choice. The 718 was the obvious choice, newer, should be better next evolution etc etc. The 981 was older, had an extra owner so on paper not the one to have. I drove both cars and chose the 981 for reasons I have no intentions of having to arguing out on here. I don’t study psychology but I believe it is generally known as putting your money where your mouth is. Was I caught like some rabbit in the headlights with all that shiny metal/glass around me and made a terrible mistake, unlikely, I spent decades in the motor trade and have driven a few cars in my time. I checked my medication, it was all up to date and in order so it wasn’t that either. I chose what I preferred to drive, I wish I could make it more complicated than that. Do I think I am right and you are wrong, no, because you spent your money on what you wanted and I am glad to hear you are enjoying it. Would I run down any car someone else has bought and owns, no, why would I (genuine question?). IMO the right way to look at this is that the Boxster does the strictly two seater convertible thing better than any other car, whatever incarnation suits you best is what you should buy. There is no such thing as a bad version, there are just different ones.

I don’t think there is much negativity about the 981. There certainly wasn’t when it was the current model. There is no debate that it has been a very highly regarded & critically acclaimed car since launch - it proved it’s point. The apparent negativity comes from the fact that we’re comparing it to a new model, which is obviously an improvement across the board (like any new Porsche model), but because it’s been given that rough F4 engine, folks are in the uncommon position of debating whether they’d prefer the newer model to its predecessor. That doesn’t happen very often - and that’s why it causes the consternation it does. YMMV, but to many, the engine is the soul of a performance car. The 9A1 is a peach, opinions on the F4 vary. I think it’s great as a daily driver engine, but it falls far short of giving my what I want. As an aside I drove a GTS 4.0 yesterday, and there’s absolutely no doubt that that car is a master stroke (except the vents!). Edited by Royal Jelly on Monday 14th June 08:14

Holgate86 said: I had a 981 Boxster Black Edition, didn't enjoy the ownership experience at all, car was only average IMHO to drive, engineering and quality vastly over hyped, dealers and other Porsche owners pretty terrible too....couldn't even fit Zunsport grills or have a tyre repaired without the Porsche warranty boys on the case....just waiting for the engine mounts to fail...... As an all round package I'd put a 981 Boxster below the following cars I've owned the last 20 years...S3 Lotus Elise, Honda S2000, R172 Mercedes SLK55 (x2), Mercedes W205 C63 and finally my new Toyota GR Yaris CP. (Might even put it below my Mk2 Escort 1600 Sport). Can't comment on your ownership/dealer experience as a lot of that will have been determined by you as a customer, as someone who has spent decades on the other side of the fence let me assure you there are always two sides to that story. No offence, but as someone who owned 4 x RS2000s if you genuinely think a Mk2 Escort is better car than a 981 Boxster in any way then I will have to respond with this

981Boxess said: an't comment on your ownership/dealer experience as a lot of that will have been determined by you as a customer, as someone who has spent decades on the other side of the fence let me assure you there are always two sides to that story. No offence, but as someone who owned 4 x RS2000s if you genuinely think a Mk2 Escort is better car than a 981 Boxster in any way then I will have to respond with this Well - It's narrower, easier to see out of, can carry more than two passengers, probably has better steering feel, and is probably easier and more enjoyable to drift...

Stunters said: Well - It's narrower, easier to see out of, can carry more than two passengers, probably has better steering feel, and is probably easier and more enjoyable to drift... If it’s ‘narrower’ it must be better.

supersport said: It's all just b ks anyway. Years ago the magazines used to slag of the 964RS and you could them up for pence. Probably everyone kept spouting the same guff, now look at them. When those funny kettle came along ( ) a lot of air cooled folk got very shouty, even worse when the 4x4 came along. At the end of the day they are all great cars, even the tips, and there is really very little between them. Read all about it “Man talks sense on a Pistonheads thread shocker.”

Stunters said: 981Boxess said: Can't comment on your ownership/dealer experience as a lot of that will have been determined by you as a customer, as someone who has spent decades on the other side of the fence let me assure you there are always two sides to that story. No offence, but as someone who owned 4 x RS2000s if you genuinely think a Mk2 Escort is better car than a 981 Boxster in any way then I will have to respond with this Well - It's narrower, easier to see out of, can carry more than two passengers, probably has better steering feel, and is probably easier and more enjoyable to drift... If you want to go down that road you could probably say the same about a Tuk Tuk, but I wouldn't have said that was better than a 981 either, no doubt some clueless individual will I have never driven a car that didn't have something going for it, a Mk2 is simple to repair, other than that I am struggling. That said if someone wants to pay what they sell for today good luck to them, enjoy, but I am unlikely to be taking any advice on what car to buy from them.

Anyone who really slates the 981 basically hasn't driven one or if they have it must of had serious problems to be rated badly. Sure there are better cars out there, but its a real 9-10 car in all reality. What is not to like?! Look at the reviews, pretty much consistently 5 out of 5. There may be parts that don't appeal to a small group but that's life and you cant keep everyone happy. I cant take anyone seriously who tells me its crap, it just isn't by any stretch of the imagination.

nickv8 said: Interested! Was this another option? I have the sports wheel(?) which, pleasingly, is very plain and devoid of other controls. But the metal paddles are fixed to the column. I’m aware of the wheel with buttons (standard). Please can you post an image of your wheel with paddles, please? Sport design wheel comes with paddles attached to wheel. Porsche don't have a wheel with paddles on the column.

mr pg said: nickv8 said: ................. I have the sports wheel(?) which, pleasingly, is very plain and devoid of other controls. But the metal paddles are fixed to the column. ...................... ...............Porsche don't have a wheel with paddles on the column.

I waited 54 years to buy my dream car and couldn’t give a what other people think

Four Litre said: Anyone who really slates the 981 basically hasn't driven one or if they have it must of had serious problems to be rated badly. Sure there are better cars out there, but its a real 9-10 car in all reality. What is not to like?! Look at the reviews, pretty much consistently 5 out of 5. There may be parts that don't appeal to a small group but that's life and you cant keep everyone happy. I cant take anyone seriously who tells me its crap, it just isn't by any stretch of the imagination. I owned one from new so assume it didn't have any issues. I didn't rate it due to gearing, lack of steering feel, tyre roar, lack of overall engagement, fiddly switchgear. It's biggest asset is practicality and usability but exciting, not for me.

Did you own the 2.7 or the 3.4? The only reason I ask is I think the PDK is pretty clever and seems to holds the gears for me if I am pushing on through some corners. I am not sure if it is different between the S and the non S. What cars are you comparing it to? If you are coming from some more exotic things then I’m sure it doesn’t compare but as a practical two seater it is pretty impressive to me!

mr pg said: nickv8 said: Interested! Was this another option? I have the sports wheel(?) which, pleasingly, is very plain and devoid of other controls. But the metal paddles are fixed to the column. I’m aware of the wheel with buttons (standard). Please can you post an image of your wheel with paddles, please? Sport design wheel comes with paddles attached to wheel. Porsche don't have a wheel with paddles on the column. My head in back in reality. Old age = confusion on my part. The paddles on mine are glued to the wheel, not the column, as I previously wrote above. What I wanted was the opposite; paddles glued to the column. In the country lanes around here, it’s crossing the wheel is common in all the tight bends. So trying to find the right paddle is a pain. Very occasionally I’ve used the stick, but doesn’t feel as natural (bizarrely, as I only drive manuals otherwise). But this is a manufacturer-specific thing and Porsche are not alone in their decision. Nothing 981-related as a criticism.

Chris722 said: If you are coming from some more exotic things then I’m sure it doesn’t compare but as a practical two seater it is pretty impressive to me! Real world use is where I think all Boxsters score well above the competition, if they actually have any. Having a car that goes round the Nurburgring 0.005168 sec quicker means nothing to me if I cannot go on a Eurohoon in it because you cannot get a fag packet in the boot. Having no engine anywhere to be seen did at first seem a little weird but once you get past that the extra luggage space that provides makes the whole package work. If your thing is track days, buy a track day car and do it properly, no road car will every drive well on a track and vice versa. So what you end up with here is a quick, well designed, well put together, comfortable, reliable car which is a joy to drive and doesn't cost a fortune to run, whats not to like.

nickv8 said: . Very occasionally I’ve used the stick, but doesn’t feel as natural (bizarrely, as I only drive manuals otherwise). . Of course it doesn't help on the 981 that the stick change is also the wrong way around, i.e. push forward to change up ! Thankfully they fixed it on the 718.

Lexington59 said: Of course it doesn't help on the 981 that the stick change is also the wrong way around, i.e. push forward to change up ! Thankfully they fixed it on the 718. Shouldn't be buying a PDK in a 'Sports Car' in the first place

Lexington59 said: Of course it doesn't help on the 981 that the stick change is also the wrong way around, i.e. push forward to change up ! Thankfully they fixed it on the 718. One of my pet hates of DSG/PDK is the wrong way round change. Luckily for the 981 COBB offer 5/6 different PDK tunes and one of them "extreme" has it the correct way. Loved it on my 981.

anonymous said: [redacted] I bet that wouldn't be very hard to reverse The problem is you would be the only one swinging the wrong way

anonymous said: [redacted] That's jus the sub £60k fleet, the real stuff I keep quiet about!

Lexington59 said: Of course it doesn't help on the 981 that the stick change is also the wrong way around, i.e. push forward to change up ! Thankfully they fixed it on the 718. Haven't found that bit strange, I must admit. I haven't had a car previously with a similar option, so muscle memory to confuse. It just doesn't seem to work for me, after using the paddle for the majority and then having to remember there's a stick to also use half way around a tight bend.

Andyoz said: Shouldn't be buying a PDK in a 'Sports Car' in the first place Should I ... or 90+% of all modern Porsche owners (who we shall just refer to the "correct" ones, in this case) rise to the bait?

anonymous said: [redacted] YES! Now that I 100% agree with. Taken me 6 months to mentally think it's the inconvenient motion to get on your way for all modern H&S reasons

I didn't realise people spoke negatively about the 981, I thought that was just me. I've owned mine since 2016, so I speak from authority

I think some of it is that they (Porsche) have gone away from the classic shape of the 986 and 987. The 981/718 styling is aimed more at a younger market but younger people don't have £50k+ for a two-seater sports car so I think it riles people. M2/M240i has four seats so they can squeeze kids in and the servicing is cheaper...

Most of the negativity with regards to the 981, and specifically its steering, came from one individual, who clearly had an axe to grind (for whatever reason that may have been) In isolation the 981 steering is just fine, it's only when driven back to back with the 987 that the later car's relative lack of weight and ultimate feel/feedback through the wheel, is exposed. But as I've said before, us humans, are more often than not very good at adapting to changes in all walks of life, and in the automotive field that translates into an ability to swap from one car to another and in the process adapt to changes of all kinds, such as control surface weights, brake moderation, old, worn clutches, tired suspension, poor geometry adjustment etc etc Some individuals are better than others at doing this, though I suspect the 981's steering's biggest detractor on PH wasn't, and because he wasn't, he became overly fixated on it, and whilst most just "get on with it" and learn to adapt and in the process bond with the car and enjoy ownership of it, our erstwhile and most vociferous 981 steering critic got increasingly hung up on it. He did the same with all the iterations of the 996 GT3, the 981 Spyder, the Gen 1 997 GT3's PASM suspension etc etc etc ... And those that didn't concur with his views were subsequently labelled "polishers and poseurs" as opposed to "drivers". Several years ago I drove a beautifully specified 981 with the Power Steering Plus option, I grant you it didn't do the steering feel any favours, but it wouldn't have stopped me from buying the car and enjoying it if it had been a car I wanted to own. I subsequently also drove the RPM Technik CSR 981 S, and found that with the various tweaks RPMT had made to the suspension and steering, its feel and feedback was excellent. I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ?? Not many I'd wager.

981 presumably had the first gen EPAS, I think they continued to tweak it over time and in later versions such as in the 718. Wonder what the feedback will be like on the hydraulic Emira vs Porsche's EPAS when driven back to back... 911R along with a good few other accounts, all appear have been shut down (/banned) recently.

Good points made by Slippy. I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you. I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in.

Schmed said: 911R along with a good few other accounts, all appear have been shut down (/banned) recently. He is still providing top comedy value on PCGB

JayK12 said: Good points made by Slippy. I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you. I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in. I dont think there is either I had one and was more than happy with it , that being said that was followed by a 718 and in my opinion the steering is much better

Slippydiff said: I subsequently also drove the RPM Technik CSR 981 S, and found that with the various tweaks RPMT had made to the suspension and steering, its feel and feedback was excellent. I've no doubt a hydraulic PAS rack could be retrofitted to the 981, and it would address any weight/feedback issues, but how many would be willing to pay the £2000 (or probably more) for the privilege ?? Not many I'd wager. looks like it's on Michelins? no doubt all the other changes have made a big difference but the Michelins completely change the 981 handling and feel for the better.

JasonSteel said: looks like it's on Michelins? no doubt all the other changes have made a big difference but the Michelins completely change the 981 handling and feel for the better. Yep, it was on Cup 2's when I drove it. Cracking (if expensive) Cayman.

Charlie_1 said: JayK12 said: Good points made by Slippy. I think you either like the 981 or you don't, A car is a package and if a key component of that package isn't for you then maybe the car isn't for you. I don't think there is much negativity around the 981, I had one and got on with it just fine, would of preferred more steering feel (which the 718 had) but as a package it was my preference, the steering didn't stop me enjoying the car. However my current car, the chassis, the driving position are things I cannot deal with and after 2 months its going, another 981 coming in. I dont think there is either I had one and was more than happy with it , that being said that was followed by a 718 and in my opinion the steering is much better I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K.

JayK12 said: I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K. The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car. The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure.

I was worried the steering would be rubbish based on forum conjecture, especially coming from a 993. But I really have no problem with it whatsoever. Think one of the issues is the spread of variables on modern Porsche due to all the different options (+ tyre choices)...I haven't drive a Cayman with e.g. power steering plus, pasm, pirelli tyres...but imagine the steering feel may be pretty different Vs no power steering plus, x73 suspension, mich pilot sport 4s (which is my spec). If someone says 'the steering on a 997 carrera s' is rubbish/great, you at least know broadly that everyone has a similar spec.

Twinfan said: JayK12 said: I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K. The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car. The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure. Not sure if you know, but I have brought another 981 CGTS Manual X73 as a daily, arrives tomorrow.

Yeah I saw, the carmine red one - looks lovely, enjoy!!

JayK12 said: Not sure if you know, but I have brought another 981 CGTS Manual X73 as a daily, arrives tomorrow. Yeah, saw that - enjoy!

Twinfan said: JayK12 said: I agree the steering is much better, but the package as a whole I prefer the 981 due to my engine preference. The 718 4.0 is probably the one but still a years wait and an extra 20+K. The 3.4 in the GTS is a superb engine, and if you're after a road car saving the £20k would always get my vote if you can find the right spec 981 GTS for you. Cranking up the camber via geo changes and using the Sport setting of PASM (if you have it rather than X73) really help the feel of the car. The 4.0 will never give the aural delight that the 3.4 does, which is a big part of the 981s appeal. The 981 GTS is a modern classic for sure. The 3.4 engine revs so free, I`ve never ever experienced an enige like that, just amazing, like there`s no internal restistance at all. The GT4 is not reving like that IMHO, maybe due to particle filters?

Romo said: The 3.4 engine revs so free, I`ve never ever experienced an enige like that, just amazing, like there`s no internal restistance at all. The GT4 is not reving like that IMHO, maybe due to particle filters? I've kind of fixed it on my 718 GT4 with a replacement silencer and a LWFW, so it now revs and responds much more like the 3.4 does. I think the exhaust on the 4.0 is a major cork in the bottle. I'd love to open up mine even more but it would make the car no longer road legal. I said it at the time and I still belivee it - as they came from the factory the 3.4 in the GTS is a much better engine than the strangled 3.8 in the 981 GT4. The 3.8 in the 981 Spyder was mapped better and feels GTS+.

Interesting thread I'm a big fan I even make YouTube videos dedicated to driving and enhancing it, but even I will admit the steering is the weakest link. Certainly not a deal breaker but when everything else is so good you do notice it when switching between cars. The 718 does steer a bit better without a doubt, but did you know it uses the same rack, so it's a either a combination of the little tweaks or just change in software. One thing I always notice straight away when driving the newer models is that the size of the steering wheel is reduced so that helps, they also stiffened the 718 at the rear so it feels more pointy. Another suggestion is to look at upgrading the roll bars to the x73 items, the stiffness provides more communication front and rear, it's how it should have come. Moving the struts inward to increase camber at the front is also good, when cornering the steering becomes more communicative.

Cheers Twin & N12. Looking forward to being back where I belong lol. I agree on the 3.4 engine being a peach, not driven a GT4 long enough recently to really remember, but do remember the 3.4 revving really well. As my daily car I really don't want to be making changes etc, just something out of the box I can have fun with. As you mention testdrive the X73 kit for me made the car respond really well, and the damping was great for something pretty stiff. In my previous 981 GTS Manual I did fit a GT4/Spyder steering wheel which made a big difference to how it felt in your hands, the GTS steering wheel is pretty chunky and feels huge. I think its something I will do again. Also as Twin mentioned when the Pzero's die, MPS4S and camber adjustment to make it more responsive (even Centre of Gravity recommended this). I did speak to Jens in germany about fitting a 981 Spyder steering rack to my previous GTS as thats out of the 911 Turbo, but he said it was not possible.

JasonSteel said: no doubt all the other changes have made a big difference but the Michelins completely change the 981 handling and feel for the better. Look forward to seeing how that pans out. Still on Pirelli P Zeros (the fronts are still the originals from 2015!) and waiting for the PS4S' to arrive at the tyre place. Now that I've had the 981 Boxster S PDK for 6+ months and driven it in much better conditions than the depths of winter, I am more and more amazed at the quality of the chassis. Plus the steering feel. All works together brilliantly as one package. The engine is nice enough, but I don't think the 3.4 is the best bit of the car. In reality, it's a faster car than is ever needed in the real world, but it does lack torque, if being critical. However, the PDK overcomes that pretty well thanks to the quick shifts and number of gears to keep it on the boil. It sounds good enough, even "spine tingling" sometimes over 5k RPM, but there are more "emotional" engines out there. Does that mean I want to jump ship? Don't think so. It's built for the B roads around these parts and I'm enjoying that

JayK12 said: Cheers Twin & N12. Looking forward to being back where I belong lol. I agree on the 3.4 engine being a peach, not driven a GT4 long enough recently to really remember, but do remember the 3.4 revving really well. As my daily car I really don't want to be making changes etc, just something out of the box I can have fun with. As you mention testdrive the X73 kit for me made the car respond really well, and the damping was great for something pretty stiff. In my previous 981 GTS Manual I did fit a GT4/Spyder steering wheel which made a big difference to how it felt in your hands, the GTS steering wheel is pretty chunky and feels huge. I think its something I will do again. Also as Twin mentioned when the Pzero's die, MPS4S and camber adjustment to make it more responsive (even Centre of Gravity recommended this). I did speak to Jens in germany about fitting a 981 Spyder steering rack to my previous GTS as thats out of the 911 Turbo, but he said it was not possible. Would really like to hear the technical reason for this, did Jens give you any insights as to why it can't be done ?

The rack on the 718 has the same part number so to hazard a guess it will be software related and compatibility between the modules.

Is the 3.4 in the GTS really that different from the 981 S engine or just a remap and different exhaust?

Slippydiff said: JayK12 said: Cheers Twin & N12. Looking forward to being back where I belong lol. I agree on the 3.4 engine being a peach, not driven a GT4 long enough recently to really remember, but do remember the 3.4 revving really well. As my daily car I really don't want to be making changes etc, just something out of the box I can have fun with. As you mention testdrive the X73 kit for me made the car respond really well, and the damping was great for something pretty stiff. In my previous 981 GTS Manual I did fit a GT4/Spyder steering wheel which made a big difference to how it felt in your hands, the GTS steering wheel is pretty chunky and feels huge. I think its something I will do again. Also as Twin mentioned when the Pzero's die, MPS4S and camber adjustment to make it more responsive (even Centre of Gravity recommended this). I did speak to Jens in germany about fitting a 981 Spyder steering rack to my previous GTS as thats out of the 911 Turbo, but he said it was not possible. Would really like to hear the technical reason for this, did Jens give you any insights as to why it can't be done ? I just looked through my emails of 2018, I specifically asked if a 718 steering rack would work looking at it, he said "We can't change the behaviour of the steering itself, I suggest starting with a kind of track day oriented alignment. This helps a lot and gives you more driving pleasure" Edited by JayK12 on Wednesday 28th July 14:08

Rocket. said: Is the 3.4 in the GTS really that different from the 981 S engine or just a remap and different exhaust? Depends in what way when you say really that different. Overall as a package some might say yes, some might say no. It really is preference. I was looking at an S again now but the spec I wanted its just easier with a GTS and I think its just that bit more special. Its subjective if its worth the extra which in the current market doesn't seem that much. Power wise I think its just a different engine map, exhaust is a PSE as standard but you can option that on the S. I don't think you'd notice any difference in power etc.

JayK12 said: Power wise I think its just a different engine map, exhaust is a PSE as standard but you can option that on the S. I don't think you'd notice any difference in power etc. The GTS remap is a slight power bump and I believe more pops and crackles when PSE is turned on. The S is still great, the GTS is it turned up to 11.

Just took my manual 981B 2.7 out at lunch, country roads, roof down and it was fantastic. The engine note is glorious, particularly as it has PSE, and the gearbox is a peach. I’ve never really struggled with the gearing, doesn’t factor in and I’m always changing gear. Coming from a Lotus I gain much more than I lose with the Porsche. Would love a 981 Spyder, but will wait for the covid pricing to simmer down.

Rocket. said: Is the 3.4 in the GTS really that different from the 981 S engine or just a remap and different exhaust? No but depends on the spec of the S in question. It's an S with PSE and sports chrono and advertised to be mapped slightly differently to provide 15bhp more at the top end. The only hardware difference is a sound symposer tube piped into the cabin which I've also retrofitted. In my experience they sound and pop just the same. I've compared my Boxster S with SC/PSE etc to a 981 Cayman GTS which is advertised to have a 25bhp uplfit, zero difference side by side. Make of that what you will.

I had a very high spec S, had Cobb Stage 2 on it so I gained the "GTS power + more"

AJB88 said: I had a very high spec S, had Cobb Stage 2 on it so I gained the "GTS power + more" You gained Carrera power !

testdrive said: AJB88 said: I had a very high spec S, had Cobb Stage 2 on it so I gained the "GTS power + more" You gained Carrera power ! Do elaborate! As I’m out of warranty next summer, I’ll be doing a couple of modifications; the X73 roll bars will be first, but I’d be interested to hear what you can achieve with a map and intake and if anyone can point me to a reputable tuner… Ps - did I hear correctly that the X73 rear bar needing to be a different part number for a PTV car? PS. Like TD said, the engine in my 981S with SC & PSE seemed pretty much identical to a GTS side by side… but if I can eek out a few more horses without too much effort then why not! Edited by Royal Jelly on Thursday 29th July 01:59

Royal Jelly said: Do elaborate! As I’m out of warranty next summer, I’ll be doing a couple of modifications; the X73 roll bars will be first, but I’d be interested to hear what you can achieve with a map and intake and if anyone can point me to a reputable tuner… Ps - did I hear correctly that the X73 rear bar needing to be a different part number for a PTV car? PS. Like TD said, the engine in my 981S with SC & PSE seemed pretty much identical to a GTS side by side… but if I can eek out a few more horses without too much effort then why not! Edited by Royal Jelly on Thursday 29th July 01:59 My video on the x73 bars is on YouTube and covers everything you need to know, testdrivescotland is the channel. You can order the 14 or 15 bar. The x73 Cayman uses the 15 and the Boxster the 14. If you intend on just doing the rear then the 14 is probably best and you don't need to get new bushing mounts as it's the same diameter just solid. Cars that are not x73 with PTV already have a slightly stiffer bar but not as stiff as the x73 one. I don't hear anything good about changing the intake plenum a reputable tune would be all that's needed but I have no direct experience.

Royal Jelly said: Do elaborate! As I’m out of warranty next summer, I’ll be doing a couple of modifications; the X73 roll bars will be first, but I’d be interested to hear what you can achieve with a map and intake and if anyone can point me to a reputable tuner… Ps - did I hear correctly that the X73 rear bar needing to be a different part number for a PTV car? PS. Like TD said, the engine in my 981S with SC & PSE seemed pretty much identical to a GTS side by side… but if I can eek out a few more horses without too much effort then why not! Edited by Royal Jelly on Thursday 29th July 01:59 I did mine while in warranty still. I managed to pick up a COBB device for around £550 2nd hand. You plug it into a Windows based machine (had to borrow one of these) update it and then download the correct files from COBB website and flash them, I had race headers so I ran the Stage 2 file and "aggressive" PDK map which also switched the change direction, so down was forward, up backwards. Car was a dream to drive. The COBB when I got it also had some custom files on it from Unicorn Developments but they were locked to the old owners Boxster. Anybody who is a COBB tuner can load you custom files onto the device. When you want to put it back to stock just simply uninstall it from car.

testdrive said: My video on the x73 bars is on YouTube and covers everything you need to know, testdrivescotland is the channel. You can order the 14 or 15 bar. The x73 Cayman uses the 15 and the Boxster the 14. If you intend on just doing the rear then the 14 is probably best and you don't need to get new bushing mounts as it's the same diameter just solid. Cars that are not x73 with PTV already have a slightly stiffer bar but not as stiff as the x73 one. I don't hear anything good about changing the intake plenum a reputable tune would be all that's needed but I have no direct experience. Watched your video on 981 v 987 Spyder recently, good stuff....and resulted in me buying a Spyder...! You swine! Edited by MrVert on Thursday 29th July 12:41

MrVert said: Watched your video on 981 v 987 Spyder recently, good stuff....and resulted in me buying a Spyder...! You swine! Edited by MrVert on Thursday 29th July 12:41 I would apologise but it's a cracking car and probably quite a clever usable investment.

anonymous said: [redacted] Thanks very kind of you, it's much easier when you enjoy the subject!

MrVert said: testdrive said: My video on the x73 bars is on YouTube and covers everything you need to know, testdrivescotland is the channel. You can order the 14 or 15 bar. The x73 Cayman uses the 15 and the Boxster the 14. If you intend on just doing the rear then the 14 is probably best and you don't need to get new bushing mounts as it's the same diameter just solid. Cars that are not x73 with PTV already have a slightly stiffer bar but not as stiff as the x73 one. I don't hear anything good about changing the intake plenum a reputable tune would be all that's needed but I have no direct experience. Watched your video on 981 v 987 Spyder recently, good stuff....and resulted in me buying a Spyder...! You swine! Edited by MrVert on Thursday 29th July 12:41 I watched that video too when I was considering a Spyder. YouTube's an amazing resource now with the 'non press' unbiased reviews/comparisons like yours... Ashgoods Red 987 Spyder still not sold. A mate was there today having a general look around at their stuff.

They’ve sold my yellow GTS today by the look of it..

I think in hindsight one of my favourite bits of the 987 spyder was a usable and reasonably geared manual box. It makes such a difference.