The Manthey GT3 at 911V... - Page 5 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

...It's been around a while and I think well known on here http://www.911virgin.com/porscheforsale/1079/996GT... Is it any good or does the Manthey kit make it hopeless on the road? I've happily used a 996GT3RS as a road car, how does it compare? I presume it's not been crashed? Bert

Slippydiff's old stead, Slippy sold it in 2015 and it's done very little mileage since, the soundtrack is much improved with the Manthey conversion, coupled with a few more BHP. Noticeably quicker than my stock 996.1 GT3 CS

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember this is a comfort model that has been correctly converted to clubsport spec. Although it doesn't really make a bit of difference, the lack of 003 on the spec sheet will put some buyers off. This & the miles may explain why it's not moved on so far. As to the driving experience, there's a lot more induction noise than is found on any "normal" 996 GT3. The exhaust makes itself heard a bit more than standard, particularly at the top of the rev range, but not in a bad way & it will still pass the noise test at most tracks. The Manthey kit just sharpens up the engine response & takes absolutely nothing away from how well the car drives on the road, quite the opposite. The 6-pots & Alcons are a "must have" upgrade if you are doing any track work, but it seems those days are gone for many GT3s now, more's the pity It's on at reasonably strong money, particularly at this time of year, but that's not to say it's absolutely worth it to the right buyer.

I was wondering if the suspension changes with KWs might make it a bit of a bone shaker on the road?

Pretty sure those KWs are pretty good on the road (have a 'bypass valve' to deal with big bumps, I think?). https://www.kwsuspensions.net/technology/valve_tec...

BertBert said: I was wondering if the suspension changes with KWs might make it a bit of a bone shaker on the road? No worse than standard and maybe better. I know a couple of guys who’ve had these and all fine (in the context of it being a hardcore Car)

jimmyslr said: No worse than standard and maybe better. I know a couple of guys who’ve had these and all fine (in the context of it being a hardcore Car) Agree. Had them on my 996.2 GT3 - made for a much better car with minimal loss of ride comfort, if any. And you can easily soften them off. Chris Franklin fitted mine and set them up as per KW recommendations.

Good evening all. just been informed about this thread, and would like to contribute? I find the comments quite interesting. I am the current owner of this car. I have had quite a few Porsche cars, from, 3.2 Carrera, 930 turbo, 996 turbo S, 3.8 Gen 2 GT3, 997 GTS, to name but a few. I have to be honest there has always been something that doesn't cut it for me? That is until I drove this car. It really has everything going for it. It drives superbly on the roads and made me smile each time I went out in it. HOWEVER, when I bought this car I Part exchanged my 997 GTS in for it, which was a fantastic all round car, but just didn't give me the thrill that I was craving. When I did the deal I did so without consulting my wife! Lets say she loves the look of the car but just is not for her. She says: "its too raw for her". I do not agree with her and neither does my son, who was in on the deal. But after 30 years of marriage I have to compromise? (I know a few will disagree). The compromise is still Porsche perhaps a 997 turbo? time will tell?

the KW suspension will be far better than the OEM bilstein fixed rate coilovers so it will ride better on the UK roads and then harden up for track work. it looks like a great car and I bet it howls on full chat. go for it!!

“I have to be honest there has always been something that doesn't cut it for me? That is until I drove this car. It really has everything going for it. It drives superbly on the roads “ Out of all the Pork I’ve owned, this car stood out head and shoulders above all as THE best hooning tool for the road. More focused and visceral than a standard Mk 1or 2 996 GT3, both the induction and exhaust noise at full noise are to die for, discrete it is not ... but driven sensibly, (high gear, low speed) it’s unobtrusive enough. I liken the car to a modern day aircooled 964/993 RS but with at least 100hp more. The car isn’t tricky to drive, but it does have a certain character that’s lacking in the standard car. The KW’s are very user friendly, but they don’t provide anything like the body control the Ohlins 3 ways I had fitted to the car. The car has a genuine Clubsport rear cage and had a Clubsport lightweight flywheel assembly and clutch fitted less than 5k miles ago (mileage iirc) The car is an all original panel example and has the benefit of a Manthey billet gearshift, new Alcon discs, 6 pot Mk 2 front calipers, refurbished wheels, and re-Connolised seats.

I too had a Manthey K400 (mk1 996 GT3) and echo all of th above comments. I would also add that it made a fantastic track machine - especially at the Nurburgring. I miss that car and would really like another one day, but wrong time for me now, otherwise I’d have this one...

Thanks Slippy and Andy for the useful information. The car really takes my fancy. I had a 996 GT3 RS for a few years which I loved even though I only used it as a road car. I sold the RS when I stopped commuting and was home based for a while. It basically stood idle in the garage for a year, so I sold it to fund some more racing - really daft move in retrospect. I now do loads of road miles so am on the look out for a fun car to do some of those miles in. Best find some time to head over to 911Virgin-towers. Bert

I've lost count how many times I've looked at this advert! Reads like it's a bloody decent drive. Advert: Upgrade includes weight saving replacement exhaust system with more efficient manifold, high flow Cats and rear silencers in conjunction with MAF deletion, Cup air filter and ECU remap. Do we know the exhaust system used?

That looks awesome - I really want one of those .... they look great to me, aged really well. Have not driven one, so can‘t opine on that

BertBert said: Thanks Slippy and Andy for the useful information. The car really takes my fancy. I had a 996 GT3 RS for a few years which I loved even though I only used it as a road car. I sold the RS when I stopped commuting and was home based for a while. It basically stood idle in the garage for a year, so I sold it to fund some more racing - really daft move in retrospect. I now do loads of road miles so am on the look out for a fun car to do some of those miles in. Best find some time to head over to 911Virgin-towers. Bert I let go of my less than 16k miles 996 GT3 RS for the black Manthey Mk1 after driving them down this stretch of road back to back : https://goo.gl/maps/BEvGeBtzwMC2 I drove them both on a day not dissimilar to today, the roads wet/damp. the temp hovering just above freezing and with leaf mulch making the road slicker still under the trees. The Manthey car was on much heat cycled and old Cup 1's and looked at the tired tyres with some trepidation knowing full well the GT3 RS on PS's had been a handful on the route I'd just driven. I needn't have worried, once comfortable in the Manthey car, it all felt wonderfully familiar (I'd written off my Zanzibar Mk1 in Scotland 4 months previously, and broken a rib in the process) With my confidence after the accident already low, a couple of months in the GT3 RS had only sought to lower it further still, but five minutes behind the wheel of the Manthey car saw my mojo rapidly returning. Even on the tired Cup 1's and the KW's set to soft (though with hindsight probably BECAUSE the they were set to soft) the car just gripped and inspired confidence. I returned to Fearnsport half an hour later beaming from ear to ear, and knowing full well I'd be buying the car. A deal was done immediately and thus I took ownership of one of the best 911's I've owned. CocoUK said: I've lost count how many times I've looked at this advert! Reads like it's a bloody decent drive. Do we know the exhaust system used? Manthey initially used M & M manifolds combined with a Europipe system (cats, X pipe and silencers) before commissioning M & M to make the complete system and manifolds. IMO the early Europipe/M&M systems sound better (though noisier) than the complete M&M system. This is the early M&M/Europipe version : I'd buy the old girl back in a heartbeat, but I'm likely to be heading back to air-cooled pastures. Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 8th January 19:11

Slippydiff said: BertBert said: Thanks Slippy and Andy for the useful information. The car really takes my fancy. I had a 996 GT3 RS for a few years which I loved even though I only used it as a road car. I sold the RS when I stopped commuting and was home based for a while. It basically stood idle in the garage for a year, so I sold it to fund some more racing - really daft move in retrospect. I now do loads of road miles so am on the look out for a fun car to do some of those miles in. Best find some time to head over to 911Virgin-towers. Bert I let go of my less than 16k miles 996 GT3 RS for the black Manthey Mk1 after driving them down this stretch of road back to back : https://goo.gl/maps/BEvGeBtzwMC2 I drove them both on a day not dissimilar to today, the roads wet/damp. the temp hovering just above freezing and with leaf mulch making the road slicker still under the trees. The Manthey car was on much heat cycled and old Cup 1's and looked at the tired tyres with some trepidation knowing full well the GT3 RS on PS's had been a handful on the route I'd just driven. I needn't have worried, once comfortable in the Manthey car, it all felt wonderfully familiar (I'd written off my Zanzibar Mk1 in Scotland 4 months previously, and broken a rib in the process) With my confidence after the accident already low, a couple of months in the GT3 RS had only sought to lower it further still, but five minutes behind the wheel of the Manthey car saw my mojo rapidly returning. Even on the tired Cup 1's and the KW's set to soft (though with hindsight probably BECAUSE the they were set to soft) the car just gripped and inspired confidence. I returned to Fearnsport half an hour later beaming from ear to ear, and knowing full well I'd be buying the car. A deal was done immediately and thus I took ownership of one of the best 911's I've owned. CocoUK said: I've lost count how many times I've looked at this advert! Reads like it's a bloody decent drive. Do we know the exhaust system used? Manthey initially used M & M manifolds combined with a Europipe system (cats, X pipe and silencers) before commissioning M & M to make the complete system and manifolds. IMO the early Europipe/M&M systems sound better (though noisier) than the complete M&M system. This is the early M&M/Europipe version : Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 8th January 19:09 As an experience and just something nice to own is it worth £64k in your opinion? No-one better placed to opine Seems a bit dear to me but maybe I'm not giving the 996 enough credit as simply a nice piece of engineering and something special to own? Depends what sort of nick its in/type of use I suppose but in my experience 60 to100k miles is when these old war horses can become pretty expensive hobbies to keep in tip top condition.

Desert Dragon said: As an experience and just something nice to own is it worth £64k in your opinion? No-one better placed to opine Seems a bit dear to me but maybe I'm not giving the 996 enough credit as simply a nice piece of engineering and something special to own? Depends what sort of nick its in/type of use I suppose but in my experience 60 to100k miles is when these old war horses can become pretty expensive hobbies to keep in tip top condition. Prices are all over the place currently, so the market is difficult to call IMO. There's a genuine Mk1 Clubsport been on the market some months now, it's cheap, and it's cheap with good reason. But your right, once past 60k miles these can get prohibitively expensive to run, this one however has had the expensive bits attended to, brakes. tyres, clutch, flywheel, wheels all have been replaced or overhauled. Those Mk1 six pot calipers and new Alcon discs would cost the thick end of £4k, JZM discounted the K400 conversion heftily in latter years, but it'll still cost you £5k fitted (and maybe a tad more), new tyres and refurbed wheels would cost you £1250, the Manthey KW's another £4k I'd guess, the clutch and lightweight flywheel weren't cheap (a new release bearing, crossshaft bearings and release bearing tube were fitted at the same time) it all adds up.... As an experience to drive and something nice to own, yes, it's worth every penny IMO. It's a very tidy, original panel car that drives beautifully, and is sufficiently different from a standard Mk1 to make it "special". I ran it with some very expensive 3 way adjustable Ohlins remote reservoir dampers and Cup rear toe links, in that guise it drove more like a superbly (for which read properly) damped Gen 1 997 GT3 than a 996.... It was an amazing road car.

I'm guessing that unless something in the car/package is unappealing, the market thinks it's pricey otherwise it would have sold. There may be nervousness about the mileage and what a new owner might face in the next 10k-20k miles. Or whether it had done a lot of track miles. I wondered whether it was very hardcore, but sounds like it should be superb. My problem is that Mrs Bert has laid down the law. One in, one out... so one of the air cooled beauties would have to go. Not sure I'm ready for that.

BertBert said: I'm guessing that unless something in the car/package is unappealing, the market thinks it's pricey otherwise it would have sold. There may be nervousness about the mileage and what a new owner might face in the next 10k-20k miles. Or whether it had done a lot of track miles. I wondered whether it was very hardcore, but sounds like it should be superb. My problem is that Mrs Bert has laid down the law. One in, one out... so one of the air cooled beauties would have to go. Not sure I'm ready for that. The colour won't appeal to everyone, neither will the fact it's modified, add in it's wrong time of the year to be buying such "toys", and I wouldn't be surprised if it's stuck there until April. What air cooled loveliness do you have Berty ?

I saw it in the flesh when I viewed and then collected my matching black MK1 GT3, it's a very very tidy looking and well spec'd car. The guys at 911V have been excellent to deal with and I would not hesitate to recommend them, I suggest getting over viewing/driving it. It's a very relaxed environment there with no pressure to buy etc, I viewed mine twice before going ahead.

Slippy, I've got a slate grey 69T which is new to me. It's not super pure as it has a 2.0 E spec motor on carbs, some S front brakes and currently getting arbs added as the roll is entertaining, but quickly gets tedious! But it's an amazing drive, the lightest of light and the motor pulls like a train! Also got an 89 hot rod made in the IROC style, also inspired by the look of the first turbo prototype in 1976. Fresh build from scratch, 3.8 Redtek 'RSR' motor, turbo running gear and suspension, fresh G50 box with LSD. Designed to both tour and trackday. I was worried it might be poor at both, but Mrs Bert enjoyed the trip to the spa 6 hours weekend and I had a blast at Oulton last march. Bert

I’d say the car is good value at the asking price. What else can you get that entertains and rewards as much for the same money? I remember test driving a 997.2 GT3 when I owned my K400 - loved the look of them and assumed I would love the drive. But, couldn’t have been further from the truth.... It felt heavy, unresponsive and I hated the feeling of the dual mass flywheel. It made me love the K400 even more and I took the salesman out in my car afterwards and he totally understood what I meant. I miss my old car - whilst I’ve moved on a level or 2 in terms of performance (991RS and currently 991.2 GT3 manual), these cars don’t have the same “feel” as a K400 - indeed you would probably need to go 964RS to better it, but then you wouldn’t have the GT3’s Performance to all-round usability and on track it comes into its own. I had mine for 5.5 yrs - longest I’ve ever owned any car and it would probably take another one or a 6RS/ CGT in the future beat that.

BertBert said: I'm guessing that unless something in the car/package is unappealing, the market thinks it's pricey otherwise it would have sold. I think the market in general is pretty quiet - I've been looking at 996 GT3's for the past few months and it's the same old cars hanging around. I'm tempted by this car too but I'm waiting to get my 964 back with it's newly fitted ITB's before deciding if I really need another GT3 in my life. Hence I refuse to even go down to have a look as I'll probably end up buying it, someone needs to buy it to take the temptation away

I saw the car in passing and it looked very nice. I think a combination of colour, miles and mods make it a tough decision vs a similar condition / miles standard GT3 Clubsport (if you can find one). I am sure to drive it would be superb but the potential cost of ownership will, I am sure, sway some buyers. Slippydiff - you mentioned another 996 GT3 Clubsport for sale, do you have some details or a link please? Would make for an interesting comparison.

blackmamba said: I saw the car in passing and it looked very nice. I think a combination of colour, miles and mods make it a tough decision vs a similar condition / miles standard GT3 Clubsport (if you can find one). I am sure to drive it would be superb but the potential cost of ownership will, I am sure, sway some buyers. Slippydiff - you mentioned another 996 GT3 Clubsport for sale, do you have some details or a link please? Would make for an interesting comparison. https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-996/mk1-911-996-gt3/7856406

BertBert said: Slippy, I've got a slate grey 69T which is new to me. It's not super pure as it has a 2.0 E spec motor on carbs, some S front brakes and currently getting arbs added as the roll is entertaining, but quickly gets tedious! But it's an amazing drive, the lightest of light and the motor pulls like a train! Also got an 89 hot rod made in the IROC style, also inspired by the look of the first turbo prototype in 1976. Fresh build from scratch, 3.8 Redtek 'RSR' motor, turbo running gear and suspension, fresh G50 box with LSD. Designed to both tour and trackday. I was worried it might be poor at both, but Mrs Bert enjoyed the trip to the spa 6 hours weekend and I had a blast at Oulton last march. Bert They sound very nice - can you post a shot or two - need an AC fix

Slippydiff said: Desert Dragon said: As an experience and just something nice to own is it worth £64k in your opinion? No-one better placed to opine Seems a bit dear to me but maybe I'm not giving the 996 enough credit as simply a nice piece of engineering and something special to own? Depends what sort of nick its in/type of use I suppose but in my experience 60 to100k miles is when these old war horses can become pretty expensive hobbies to keep in tip top condition. Prices are all over the place currently, so the market is difficult to call IMO. There's a genuine Mk1 Clubsport been on the market some months now, it's cheap, and it's cheap with good reason. But your right, once past 60k miles these can get prohibitively expensive to run, this one however has had the expensive bits attended to, brakes. tyres, clutch, flywheel, wheels all have been replaced or overhauled. Those Mk1 six pot calipers and new Alcon discs would cost the thick end of £4k, JZM discounted the K400 conversion heftily in latter years, but it'll still cost you £5k fitted (and maybe a tad more), new tyres and refurbed wheels would cost you £1250, the Manthey KW's another £4k I'd guess, the clutch and lightweight flywheel weren't cheap (a new release bearing, crossshaft bearings and release bearing tube were fitted at the same time) it all adds up.... As an experience to drive and something nice to own, yes, it's worth every penny IMO. It's a very tidy, original panel car that drives beautifully, and is sufficiently different from a standard Mk1 to make it "special". I ran it with some very expensive 3 way adjustable Ohlins remote reservoir dampers and Cup rear toe links, in that guise it drove more like a superbly (for which read properly) damped Gen 1 997 GT3 than a 996.... It was an amazing road car. Thanks mate. I have had to quite a few of those bits on my 997 recently and have had a few expensive bills over last 18 months on a similar age car thats lived a much more pampered life than this lovely 996. I think my trepidation would be on if the gearbox or engine need an overhaul which is inevitable at some stage. Whether its tomorrow or in 100k miles only God knows. Thats when things start getting pretty expensive. If its for road use this car will be fine IMO. You put it in the hands of a track junkie for 12 months and 8-10 track days a year as Porsche intended and I think there would be a fair few bills looming. Not the end of the world as an excuse to build to an even better spec. 4.0 500bhp in a sublime chassis anyone? probably not an issue most buyers of these cars are tucking them away. I've seen the other black Dick Lovett 996 GT3, yellow GT3 (Jackals old car), Zanzibar GT3 (think yours too?) and this Manthey come up for sale many times over the last few years at slightly higher prices through 911V with virtually no more miles than they were advertised a few years ago. They're just sitting in peoples garages in the main.

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KRF_2089 by graham Ridgway , on Flickr

As a road car, and driven with a modicum of mechanical sympathy (and plenty weren’t) the engine and ‘box will keep on going for many, many miles if you keep chucking fresh oil at them (and service them properly) sure the Mk 1 engines suffer from “death rattles” from the cam chains/guides/tensioners on cold start up, but fitting a cut out switch to enable you to crank the engine to build up the oil pressure without the engine firing, will alleviate that issue. The main and big end shells do wear, and the valve guides/stems will do likewise, but a bit like the aircooled engines, they just keep on running and produce good power. The ‘boxes are strong, the only real weak point are the synchros on the Mk 1, but in my experience these only wear excessively if they’ve been abused, or had a SSK fitted by often inept individuals looking to improve their lap times by a nanosecond .... otherwise a 60,70,80,90K ‘box will shift beautifully. Very few of these near 20 year old cars are being tracked regularly now, there are a couple of exceptions, but both the cars I know of are so far from standard, there are few conclusions to be drawn from the costs involved in doing so. Buy one that’s been properly maintained and/or refurbished (such as this car) and you’ll have many miles and years of trouble free, fun and exhilarating road motoring with minimal expenditure. As plenty have said, the 996 GT cars nicely bridge the gap between the aircooled cars with their seemingly inherent corrosion issues, and the later 997/991 cars with their more anodyne, digital feel.

BertBert said: KRF_2089 by graham Ridgway , on Flickr Hi Berty, was just about to ask for some photos of the IROC look car. It looks stunning. Any interior/engine bay images ?

Slippydiff said: Prices are all over the place currently, so the market is difficult to call IMO. There's a genuine Mk1 Clubsport been on the market some months now, it's cheap, and it's cheap with good reason. That one caught my interest a while back too but even as a track hack I don't think it's quite cheap enough because of the cat D status.

I keep looking at this ad too. I just don't think I can bring myself to sell the M3 for it and this is far too hardcore to use as my daily, the Mrs would go berserk haha. I'd love to be able to drive a GT3 side by side on circuit with the M to see how it feels.

Anyone who buys a 996 GT3 with the intention of using it for touring with their Mrs needs their head checked. Or I am really a lot older in my head than my 40yrs... Anyone who buys this particular car for anything but track-days and hoons with like minded mates needs to be sectioned under the MHA. Yes, I do have the first K400 ever made - a original panel LHD 996.1 CS with 33k miles on the clock and even more goodies than the black car, so I can hardly be accused of being biased. And yes, every time the heretical thought of chopping it in for a AMG GT-C passes through my head I remember blasts in mid-Wales and realise that I would be adding an AMG, not replacing a GT3...

Will attach some more pics when I am home later. Slippydiff said: Hi Berty, was just about to ask for some photos of the IROC look car. It looks stunning. Any interior/engine bay images ?

BertBert said: KRF_2089 by graham Ridgway , on Flickr Both lovely - thanks

Slippy, I haven't got any pics I can find, but found a vid from when we did the first engine start in 2014. Gives the general idea! https://youtu.be/6KEu-a9vnF8 Bert

boxsey said: Slippydiff said: Prices are all over the place currently, so the market is difficult to call IMO. There's a genuine Mk1 Clubsport been on the market some months now, it's cheap, and it's cheap with good reason. That one caught my interest a while back too but even as a track hack I don't think it's quite cheap enough because of the cat D status. Has it been repaired badly?

rubystone said: boxsey said: Slippydiff said: Prices are all over the place currently, so the market is difficult to call IMO. There's a genuine Mk1 Clubsport been on the market some months now, it's cheap, and it's cheap with good reason. That one caught my interest a while back too but even as a track hack I don't think it's quite cheap enough because of the cat D status. Has it been repaired badly? There's a whole thread on it here on 911uk: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118405

Digga said: There's a whole thread on it here on 911uk: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118405 The car in the link posted is a silver mark 1 clubsport. So there are two cars out there that are for sale and Cat D?

rubystone said: The car in the link posted is a silver mark 1 clubsport. So there are two cars out there that are for sale and Cat D? Sorry, was thinking of t'other one!

Digga said: Sorry, was thinking of t'other one! Is the red car still for sale?!!

rubystone said: Digga said: Sorry, was thinking of t'other one! Is the red car still for sale?!! Hadn't heard TBF. I think, with all of these repaired cars, it's a very tricky thing to sell on. I can see how buying the wreck and then repairing it, yourself, to a standard you are satisfied with can work, but as soon as the car comes to be sold again, its history will always be brought up. The repaired cars aren't really cheap enough (out of necessity, because of the costs involved) to take a punt on for many.

This whole thing about repaired GT3s makes me laugh... My mate, who races with Schutz Motorsport in the German Carrera Cup was selling his front running 997.2 GT3 Cup car. You would not believe the amount of eejits asking whether it has been pranged and then walking away once were told that yes, it is a race car and yes, it has had a couple of minors necessitating bumpers and a front wing. This was the fastest 997.2 in the series, just had a new engine and gearbox and the asking was EUR80k... Anyway, the red Mk2 was a great car before the crash and credit to its owner, and if done properly - there was nothing serious there - would be a miles better car than most "never crashed/never tracked" other Mk2s for sale... Of course the stupidity of the seller was beyond belief, hence now this car forever would be wrongly (IMHO) dismissed out of hand as "not a good'un"...

Sadly for a 'road' car it's a self reinforcing thing. Write-offs carry a big negative premium. I bought a Cat D Caterham that had been rebuilt on a new chassis. It was 10 years old, but was like new with a full photo record of the rebuild. I paid about 12.5k for it when the price for a non-cat D version would have been about 13.5k. I was chuffed. But when I came to sell it 3 years later, what an utter pain in the arse, virtually impossible to sell. Went for about 9k in the end. And then I had to take it to the Autolign people to have it certified as condition inspected. They looked at me like I was mad. It was still like new! It wasn't a big financial loss in absolute terms but shows the point So you know that even if you are convinced the Cat D car is a beaut, you know it will be an absolute pain in the arse to sell, so has to be priced accordingly. Bert

BertBert said: Sadly for a 'road' car it's a self reinforcing thing. Write-offs carry a big negative premium. I bought a Cat D Caterham that had been rebuilt on a new chassis. It was 10 years old, but was like new with a full photo record of the rebuild. I paid about 12.5k for it when the price for a non-cat D version would have been about 13.5k. I was chuffed. But when I came to sell it 3 years later, what an utter pain in the arse, virtually impossible to sell. Went for about 9k in the end. And then I had to take it to the Autolign people to have it certified as condition inspected. They looked at me like I was mad. It was still like new! It wasn't a big financial loss in absolute terms but shows the point So you know that even if you are convinced the Cat D car is a beaut, you know it will be an absolute pain in the arse to sell, so has to be priced accordingly. Bert I hear you, and "unfortunately" agree with you... Much prefer the German market, where crashed cars don't carry a stigma. And often a lightly damaged car - let's say a wing or even original panels have been grazed etc would cost almost the same as a non-damaged car. Also, I like it how in Germany it is a criminal offense to describe cars as undamaged if they have had a prang (even not recorded) in the past. Anyway, back to the Black K400 - it is an absolute beauty and probably better for being driven regularly and of known provenance than a garage queen, which has never been tracked, but sports track rubber/big brakes/short shift and the harness for a lap timer...

BertBert said: Sadly for a 'road' car it's a self reinforcing thing. Write-offs carry a big negative premium. I bought a Cat D Caterham that had been rebuilt on a new chassis. It was 10 years old, but was like new with a full photo record of the rebuild. I paid about 12.5k for it when the price for a non-cat D version would have been about 13.5k. I was chuffed. But when I came to sell it 3 years later, what an utter pain in the arse, virtually impossible to sell. Went for about 9k in the end. And then I had to take it to the Autolign people to have it certified as condition inspected. They looked at me like I was mad. It was still like new! It wasn't a big financial loss in absolute terms but shows the point So you know that even if you are convinced the Cat D car is a beaut, you know it will be an absolute pain in the arse to sell, so has to be priced accordingly. Bert Was the Autolign process thorough? Also how much did it cost? Would you happily by an autolign car in terms of it being a straight chassis? Only asking because I've been offered an air-cooled which is a cat d. A good one would sell for £150,000. Not sure what a cat d should be marked down for as a percent of £150,000. Also wondering whether if its maybe worth to get it checked via autolign if you rate them.

Cheburator mk2 said: BertBert said: Sadly for a 'road' car it's a self reinforcing thing. Write-offs carry a big negative premium. I bought a Cat D Caterham that had been rebuilt on a new chassis. It was 10 years old, but was like new with a full photo record of the rebuild. I paid about 12.5k for it when the price for a non-cat D version would have been about 13.5k. I was chuffed. But when I came to sell it 3 years later, what an utter pain in the arse, virtually impossible to sell. Went for about 9k in the end. And then I had to take it to the Autolign people to have it certified as condition inspected. They looked at me like I was mad. It was still like new! It wasn't a big financial loss in absolute terms but shows the point So you know that even if you are convinced the Cat D car is a beaut, you know it will be an absolute pain in the arse to sell, so has to be priced accordingly. Bert I hear you, and "unfortunately" agree with you... Much prefer the German market, where crashed cars don't carry a stigma. And often a lightly damaged car - let's say a wing or even original panels have been grazed etc would cost almost the same as a non-damaged car. Also, I like it how in Germany it is a criminal offense to describe cars as undamaged if they have had a prang (even not recorded) in the past. Anyway, back to the Black K400 - it is an absolute beauty and probably better for being driven regularly and of known provenance than a garage queen, which has never been tracked, but sports track rubber/big brakes/short shift and the harness for a lap timer... In fairness that is why most dealers in Germany say “according to the previous owner the car has never been in a crash” which is a nice caveat to have .... somebody rear ended my car requiring a few repairs - I hope I never have to sell it as I suspect it will be a right pain to do so, even in Germany

I think the autolign process is ok. I think if I were really needing to find out if the car had been repaired properly, I'd want a proper marque specialist to look at it. So I might do both. Use autolign for an opinion and to get the car to condition inspected status and use a marque specialist to inspect as well. Someone used to bent Porsches with race experience.

MDL111 said: In fairness that is why most dealers in Germany say “according to the previous owner the car has never been in a crash” which is a nice caveat to have .... somebody rear ended my car requiring a few repairs - I hope I never have to sell it as I suspect it will be a right pain to do so, even in Germany Depends on the car... If it is a boggo 997, you may have to entertain a few timewasters... If it is special, I think you would be surprised... I remember 3yrs ago, a beautiful 964RS was advertised in Koln. I knew the car and I also knew that it hardly had original panels following 3 different shunts at the Ring. Anyway, it sold in a week for a very strong asking price. What helped was that the repairs were documented and performed by Manthey, so I guess the buyer looked beyond the usual bs t and internet expertise... This is not to say that all repaired cars are perfect. There are lots of cars, which on balance should not be back on the road at all. Hence people should go in with eyes wide open...

Cheburator mk2 said: MDL111 said: In fairness that is why most dealers in Germany say “according to the previous owner the car has never been in a crash” which is a nice caveat to have .... somebody rear ended my car requiring a few repairs - I hope I never have to sell it as I suspect it will be a right pain to do so, even in Germany Depends on the car... If it is a boggo 997, you may have to entertain a few timewasters... If it is special, I think you would be surprised... I remember 3yrs ago, a beautiful 964RS was advertised in Koln. I knew the car and I also knew that it hardly had original panels following 3 different shunts at the Ring. Anyway, it sold in a week for a very strong asking price. What helped was that the repairs were documented and performed by Manthey, so I guess the buyer looked beyond the usual bs t and internet expertise... This is not to say that all repaired cars are perfect. There are lots of cars, which on balance should not be back on the road at all. Hence people should go in with eyes wide open... Not a Porsche - FF - I suspect mine is unsellable anyway as I use it in winter on salt, as a dog carrier, put too many miles on it and it had that little rear shunt .... luckily I do not want to sell it, let’s hope I never am required to Agree generally Germans are a little more relaxed, also with regards to stuff like service history (annual service stamps seem to be treated as optional by many). The UK is by far the most fickle market with regards to history from my (admittedly limited) experience. Trying to sell my 355 privately in London was still one of the most tedious experiences ever - so much so that I just sold it back to the supplying dealer (who was great in every respect) after wasting colossal amounts of time - life just too short

Another Manthey GT3 for sale with higher mileage and lower price https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/84450/po...

gtsralph said: Another Manthey GT3 for sale with higher mileage and lower price https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/84450/po... I viewed it last year .......

What did you think? Slippydiff said: I viewed it last year .......

BertBert said: What did you think? Slippydiff said: I viewed it last year ....... Afternoon Graham, many thanks for sending the info/images through of your IROC replica, I'll be in touch over the weekend. What did I think of the LHD Manthey car ?? Well, let's put it this way, I didn't buy it ..... And I'd rather not say anymore than that .....

BertBert did come out topless !

That's worrying, but hopefully not me! Where was that?

BertBert said: That's worrying, but hopefully not me! Where was that? It’s on Racecardirect.com Always strange buying a lightweight car and needing a sports bra to drive it,

Indeed

BertBert said: ... hopefully ... You mean you have doubts?

Many!

Found this thread during my research on 996 GT3 Mantheys. This one has caught my eye and am currently checking it out - it's 3 hour drive away so just messaging/chats with owner so far. ..Seller doesn't have it on the open market but needs to clear space as has alot of Porsches included a few recently inherited. 75k miles and OPC, JZM, Manthey FSH. He's had it 8 years but has about a dozen cars so it's only had minimal use during that time (which is my biggest worry). I've only driven a few mates 991 GT3's but am chasing something older and more 'playful'. Air cooled prices are mental and 996 are a bit less mental...it's a near 20yo car and I know these drive trains are tough but even if well maintained I might still be walking into a maintenance nightmare... I'd have a war chest set aside if going into a car like this.

Andyoz said: Found this thread during my research on 996 GT3 Mantheys. This one has caught my eye and am currently checking it out - it's 3 hour drive away so just messaging/chats with owner so far. ..Seller doesn't have it on the open market but needs to clear space as has alot of Porsches included a few recently inherited. 75k miles and OPC, JZM, Manthey FSH. He's had it 8 years but has about a dozen cars so it's only had minimal use during that time (which is my biggest worry). I've only driven a few mates 991 GT3's but am chasing something older and more 'playful'. Air cooled prices are mental and 996 are a bit less mental...it's a near 20yo car and I know these drive trains are tough but even if well maintained I might still be walking into a maintenance nightmare... I'd have a war chest set aside if going into a car like this. I know of two Manthey K400 Mk 1’s that will most likely be coming to the market in next few months. One is my old black car.

Slippydiff said: I know of two Manthey K400 Mk 1’s that will most likely be coming to the market in next few months. One is my old black car. pm'd...

Andyoz said: pm'd... YHM

Slippydiff said: YHM Thanks!

Andyoz said: Found this thread during my research on 996 GT3 Mantheys. This one has caught my eye and am currently checking it out - it's 3 hour drive away so just messaging/chats with owner so far. ..Seller doesn't have it on the open market but needs to clear space as has alot of Porsches included a few recently inherited. 75k miles and OPC, JZM, Manthey FSH. He's had it 8 years but has about a dozen cars so it's only had minimal use during that time (which is my biggest worry). I've only driven a few mates 991 GT3's but am chasing something older and more 'playful'. Air cooled prices are mental and 996 are a bit less mental...it's a near 20yo car and I know these drive trains are tough but even if well maintained I might still be walking into a maintenance nightmare... I'd have a war chest set aside if going into a car like this. Hi Andy, I was the previous owner. I loved this car, I only sold it because I needed the funds for a house extension. I’m glad it’s still looking good! It’s done hardly any miles since I sold it! The conversion was carried out very early in the cars life by the first owner. It needed new cats when I sold it via JZM, hopefully this was done. I would guess by now some items are in need of a good refresh or at the very least a thorough check. On the plus side, the 2 owners before me are friends and are both good, mechanically sympathetic drivers like myself. It would be fair to say that all 3 of us used it as intended and the car knows it’s own way around the Nordschleife and Spa. I’ve got a 718 GT4 now, but it doesn’t match the raw attraction of this.

Thanks so much for replying. I have sent you a PM if you don't mind...

Yes no problem

Saw it...drove it...PPI'd it...bought it Clubsport + Manthey K400 Thanks to certain member here who put me in touch with seller.

And in a great colour ... Thanks for the pics

ChrisW. said: And in a great colour ... Thanks for the pics Yes, I'm a shallow b d so it had to be Speed Yellow...

That looks fab, glad it’s worked out for you.

That's not Dan's old car is it?

BertBert said: That's not Dan's old car is it? It is sir.... great car.

I should have mentioned I fell for the whole 996 GT3 'thing' within the first few minutes driving it. Lived up to it's air-cooled / water-cooled crossover description I had read alot about. Definitely a different era.... This puppy is going straight in for suspension refresh at Sports & Classic.

Dan911 said: BertBert said: That's not Dan's old car is it? It is sir.... great car. excellent and how are you doing? did you get the 911 you were after then?

BertBert said: excellent and how are you doing? did you get the 911 you were after then? I’m good thanks, hope all is well with you? Got the 911, hated it, sold it. Currently in a GT4 which I love, starting to get a 996 GT3 itch again… 996.2 I feel! We will see, no rush - a summer in a GT4 isn’t a hardship I guess.

Andyoz said: I should have mentioned I fell for the whole 996 GT3 'thing' within the first few minutes driving it. Lived up to it's air-cooled / water-cooled crossover description I had read alot about. Definitely a different era.... This puppy is going straight in for suspension refresh at Sports & Classic. Great choice there, and snap pretty much

Sandy59 said: Andyoz said: I should have mentioned I fell for the whole 996 GT3 'thing' within the first few minutes driving it. Lived up to it's air-cooled / water-cooled crossover description I had read alot about. Definitely a different era.... This puppy is going straight in for suspension refresh at Sports & Classic. Great choice there, and snap pretty much Oh, hi Sandy. I saw your Jayemm video and wondered how to get in touch

Andyoz said: Oh, hi Sandy. I saw your Jayemm video and wondered how to get in touch PM me any time if you like

Dan911 said: I’m good thanks, hope all is well with you? Got the 911, hated it, sold it. Currently in a GT4 which I love, starting to get a 996 GT3 itch again… 996.2 I feel! We will see, no rush - a summer in a GT4 isn’t a hardship I guess. Ah sorry you didn't like it, I didn't like mine either when I had it! All good here, 69T not running atm, but will be soon hopefully. Be interesting in hearing your GT4 experience at dinner point. Sorry for the thread drift all.

BertBert said: Dan911 said: I’m good thanks, hope all is well with you? Got the 911, hated it, sold it. Currently in a GT4 which I love, starting to get a 996 GT3 itch again… 996.2 I feel! We will see, no rush - a summer in a GT4 isn’t a hardship I guess. Ah sorry you didn't like it, I didn't like mine either when I had it! All good here, 69T not running atm, but will be soon hopefully. Be interesting in hearing your GT4 experience at dinner point. Sorry for the thread drift all. Does any one actually like the drive of these air cooled Turbos that fetch such big money. It's one of the biggest contradictions out there in the Porsche car world....a car alot of people crave that turns out to be a bit crap (unless you just look at it and not drive it

Sandy59 said: Andyoz said: Oh, hi Sandy. I saw your Jayemm video and wondered how to get in touch PM me any time if you like Pm'd

Andyoz said: Does any one actually like the drive of these air cooled Turbos that fetch such big money. It's one of the biggest contradictions out there in the Porsche car world....a car alot of people crave that turns out to be a bit crap (unless you just look at it and not drive it That's my view too. But I'm probably wrong!!

Andyoz said: I should have mentioned I fell for the whole 996 GT3 'thing' within the first few minutes driving it. Lived up to it's air-cooled / water-cooled crossover description I had read alot about. Definitely a different era.... This puppy is going straight in for suspension refresh at Sports & Classic. Wow! So Mike will be working on 2 of the only 3 SY 996.1 CS cars in the country! Mine (and Mikes) mate has one, based in Macclesfield. Small world! Hope you enjoy the car and hopefully see you around, if you are local to Mike. I live 2 mins from his workshop 👍

jackwood said: Hope you enjoy the car and hopefully see you around, if you are local to Mike. I live 2 mins from his workshop ?? He could be local to Mike, but only if he has a conversion similar to this one ...

lol!

jackwood said: Wow! So Mike will be working on 2 of the only 3 SY 996.1 CS cars in the country! Mine (and Mikes) mate has one, based in Macclesfield. Small world! Hope you enjoy the car and hopefully see you around, if you are local to Mike. I live 2 mins from his workshop ?? I think his was at Mikes a few years ago having an expensive engine rebuild at the same time my turbo was in having an engine rebuild.

simonsti said: jackwood said: Wow! So Mike will be working on 2 of the only 3 SY 996.1 CS cars in the country! Mine (and Mikes) mate has one, based in Macclesfield. Small world! Hope you enjoy the car and hopefully see you around, if you are local to Mike. I live 2 mins from his workshop ?? I think his was at Mikes a few years ago having an expensive engine rebuild at the same time my turbo was in having an engine rebuild. That will be the one!

jackwood said: Wow! So Mike will be working on 2 of the only 3 SY 996.1 CS cars in the country! Mine (and Mikes) mate has one, based in Macclesfield. Small world! Hope you enjoy the car and hopefully see you around, if you are local to Mike. I live 2 mins from his workshop ?? Wish I was as close to Sports & Classic as Macclesfield (cars going to Warrenpoint Nth Ireland BTW). Mike did mention that car when I first chatted. I did my first 5 day trip to Scottish highlands with 10 other Porsches last month and will be back next Spring if not earlier so may get a chance to meet Sandy. Also happy to meet other owner if he's keen at all. It would be interested what triggered the rebuild as that's on my 'war chest' list but I hope I don't trigger that one for while The car will get driven and not mothballed. I am noticing the sub 30k mile examples are selling quickly and I sense they are destined for that fate....I am not that sort of car guy but each to their own. Edited by Andyoz on Wednesday 11th May 13:46