Looking for a 997 GTS, but with leather and studs. - Page 4 - 911/Carrera GT - PistonHeads UK

As per the title, I am going to buy a GTS as soon as I find the right one. However I want alcantara delete and the 5-stud Carrera Sport wheels instead of CLs. My preference is also for Guards red and PDK. Is this likely to be a wild goose chase, or will there be cars of that spec out there? If I cannot find what I want I'll have to compromise, possibly even to a Carrera S.

It could be a wild goose chase. I think you will have to compromise. I've only seen 2 or 3 with studs in the year or so i've been watching the market and one of those was a cab. Good luck in your search

Just after Christmas there was a 5 stud car, complete with buckets and in a PTS colour. It was sublime. As said, this is difficult task. For what it's worth, i see no sense in wanting leather; the alcantara is the link to the 'proper' GT models and makes the interior feel more special.

They do exist. I have alcantara delete, studs, PDK, but in White. However before you ask mine is not for sale. Since I bought in Sept 14 I've not seen another without centre-locks.

They're more hassle it's true, but surely centre locks are the way to go purely for how good they look. The 5 stud cars I've seen seem to hang around and be cheaper - or is that my imagination?

I think an enthusiast may take a view on the 5 stud as an advantage, but general public will certainly prefer CLs because they look cool. Personally, i'm a perfectionist and hate the offset of the wheels on the centre lock cars. I'd have to get either GT3 wheels or aftermarket to fill the arches.

Is the centre lock that much of an issue? Seems pretty straightforward once you have a bloody huge torque wrench. Mine's in the post

They seem to be few and far between. There's a guards red GTS in the OPC network but with the alcantera and the CLs. I get mine on Saturday, although happy with the CLs and found one with full leather.

hondansx said: I think an enthusiast may take a view on the 5 stud as an advantage, but general public will certainly prefer CLs because they look cool. Personally, i'm a perfectionist and hate the offset of the wheels on the centre lock cars. I'd have to get either GT3 wheels or aftermarket to fill the arches. The offset of the CLs is one of my major gripes. I saw the GTS video when it was first released and immediately spotted that the rear wheels were too inboard.

m33ufo said: Is the centre lock that much of an issue? Seems pretty straightforward once you have a bloody huge torque wrench. Mine's in the post Obviously we will assume no track use (then we have to open the replacement schedule can of worms)... If you get a flat tyre it is foam or a recovery truck and if you want anyone other than an OPC or specialist independent garage to change your tyres you will need to do the wheels yourself for the fitter. You also obviously need either a brake pedal depressor or an extra person to take the wheels off and refit. So a pain in the backside, but if you invest in the tools for it: not unworkable. The big deal is that you have a number of downsides and the single positive is aesthetic. Even replacement centre caps are daft money. And alternate wheels are of course limited choice, scarce and more expensive. But at the right price it shouldn't be a deal breaker : it and the turbo are the only cars that Porsche officially supports retrofits between CL and 5 bolt hubs (and vice versa). To be perfectly honest - the rarest and most desirable option on a GTS IMHO is the folding bucket seats. Those can also be retrofitted, but the cost is equally mind boggling.

Here's one sans CLs and alcantara: http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-2-gt... But being from an indie I couldn't get Porsche warranty and that steering wheel looks very shiny for a 26k miles car. I also think it was for sale, then vanished, and is now back again... and it's not red. But I could probably compromise on that.

wild goose chase. I have just purchased myself - it was hard to find all the requirements on one car - had to compromise somewhere personal taste but for me CLs are way better and more GTS

I agree. If I was in the market for a GTS I wouldn't buy a car without them.

Your spec is just a power kitted Carrea S, easy to find. Your taking out all the good bits that make it a GTS?

pete a said: Your spec is just a power kitted Carrea S, easy to find. Your taking out all the good bits that make it a GTS? Are they easy to find?

Well maybe the power kit bit might be a bit tricky

pete a said: Well maybe the power kit bit might be a bit tricky That's one of the main reasons I want a GTS. Though if an S came up with the right spec I'd consider it. All of which said there are as many GTSs in the OPC network as Carrera Ss at present.

Each of the 4 bits you want is easy enough to find, it's trying to tick all 4 in one go that is the problem. I would say popularity ranks as follows on GTS with most popular first - PDK - delete alcantara - red - studs Or otherwise red ahead of the leather. Either way both are more popular than studs. If it's really important to you to have studs then I think you'll need to be flexible on seat trim and colour.

pete a said: Your spec is just a power kitted Carrea S, easy to find. Your taking out all the good bits that make it a GTS? Just what I thought, the op's spec would be the last thing on earth I would want, no wonder it's rare no one speced any like that lol

I'm pretty sure this Guards Red GTS4 was up for sale at OPC Mid Sussex last month. http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-4-gt... Now seems to be at Paragon. It had the upgraded painted red seat backs, same miles and was 11 plate like this one. FWIW I think the red seat backs with red belts works great in Red and with Alcantara differentiates from bog std 997 interior I started off not wanting alcantara but in the end I got to rather like it.

I looked for my GTS for well over 12 months and in all that time I saw just one car come up for sale with 5 stud wheels - I found myself keep returning to the add as couldn't believe it was specced without CL's! It sat there for a good 6 months and was around £5k cheaper than all other GTS at the time. Personally a GTS would have to be CL's and Alcantara for me as along with the wide body they are the essence of the 997 GTS

chrisABP said: I looked for my GTS for well over 12 months and in all that time I saw just one car come up for sale with 5 stud wheels - I found myself keep returning to the add as couldn't believe it was specced without CL's! It sat there for a good 6 months and was around £5k cheaper than all other GTS at the time. Personally a GTS would have to be CL's and Alcantara for me as along with the wide body they are the essence of the 997 GTS What he said! CLs Partly define the uniqueness of the car for me. I have suffered one puncture in the last 10y of Porsche motoring and yes I could now be unlucky, but wouldn't let that define my ownership of a car just because a repair is a bit more costly and hassle. All modern prestige cars have some aspects that you can't pop to kwickfit to get repaired. If that worried me I would stick to a Ford Fiesta. As per the first post, if you don't like the main features of a GTS including alcantara, why not get a C2S and save a few £k. Edited by c4sman on Wednesday 25th March 07:52

c4sman said: chrisABP said: I looked for my GTS for well over 12 months and in all that time I saw just one car come up for sale with 5 stud wheels - I found myself keep returning to the add as couldn't believe it was specced without CL's! It sat there for a good 6 months and was around £5k cheaper than all other GTS at the time. Personally a GTS would have to be CL's and Alcantara for me as along with the wide body they are the essence of the 997 GTS What he said! CLs Partly define the uniqueness of the car for me. I have suffered one puncture in the last 10y of Porsche motoring and yes I could now be unlucky, but wouldn't let that define my ownership of a car just because a repair is a bit more costly and hassle. All modern prestige cars have some aspects that you can't pop to kwickfit to get repaired. If that worried me I would stick to a Ford Fiesta. As per the first post, if you don't like the main features of a GTS including alcantara, why not get a C2S and save a few £k. Edited by c4sman on Wednesday 25th March 07:52 Very true......the CLs are a major feature of the GTS and unless you are a hardcore trackie beard in reality there is too much bs talked about them. No punctures or problems with mine in over three years road use......if you are not in Porsche Assist big deal....join the AA for c £80 who will recover the car to OPC or garage of your choice in the event of a puncture.

Go leather btw........

av185 said: Very true......the CLs are a major feature of the GTS and unless you are a hardcore trackie beard in reality there is too much bs talked about them. No punctures or problems with mine in over three years road use......if you are not in Porsche Assist big deal....join the AA for c £80 who will recover the car to OPC or garage of your choice in the event of a puncture. Unfortunately my job, which is in some respects similar to yours, means that sometimes I am out in my own car (as opposed to my business car) and I need to visit places where there are lots of nails, screws and sharp things. I DO get a lot of punctures. I also don't want to have to replace a tyre every time I get a puncture, when it can be quite safely repaired. Unfortunately my OPC believes that Armageddon will result from a repair.

You could always buy a car with the CL's (which will be a lot easier to find, looks better and will resell easier) and invest in a Precision Instruments collapsible torque wrench kit which fits in the front boot. From memory I paid around £300-£350 for mine which allows the flexibility of anyone (with correct instructions and ability) to be able to remove etc. Once you've done it a few times it is actually a lot quicker than removing a 5-stud wheel.

Do I recall there was some issue about Porsche CLs and track use?

Eleven said: Do I recall there was some issue about Porsche CLs and track use? I think was GT3 CLs, which had to be recalled and inspected if I remember correctly. There haven't been any such issues with GTS CLs though.

av185 said: Go leather btw........ That pic is not just normal leather and includes extended leather on centre console with logo etc. Looks nice but most GTS' with leather will not look like that

crystalmethod said: Eleven said: Do I recall there was some issue about Porsche CLs and track use? I think was GT3 CLs, which had to be recalled and inspected if I remember correctly. There haven't been any such issues with GTS CLs though. Incorrect - the exact same components are on the GTS as the gen 2 GT3/RS/2RS/Turbo S (though if you mean that there have not yet been any actual catastrophic failures on the GTS this is probably right, but bear in mind that there haven't actually been many on anything else). All Porsche CLs are subject to a set of requirements including higher torque (600Nm), a special greasing regime with optimal paste and a very short component replacement lifecycle when used under track conditions. If you do not use the car on track then it doesn't matter, but if you do Porsche say that you should record exact track mileage and replace various elements of the corners to a schedule that starts at only every 4200 track miles for the rear hubs and bearings (which is expensive both in parts and labour costs). The intervals vary, but the affected components are the hub, nut, bearings and hub carriers and the labour alone for the jobs is up to 3 hours per corner. The schedule is different on centre lock 991s as that does use different components, but the hubs even on that are still lifed.

DiscoColin said: crystalmethod said: Eleven said: Do I recall there was some issue about Porsche CLs and track use? I think was GT3 CLs, which had to be recalled and inspected if I remember correctly. There haven't been any such issues with GTS CLs though. Incorrect - the exact same components are on the GTS as the gen 2 GT3/RS/2RS/Turbo S (though if you mean that there have not yet been any actual catastrophic failures on the GTS this is probably right, but bear in mind that there haven't actually been many on anything else). All Porsche CLs are subject to a set of requirements including higher torque (600Nm), a special greasing regime with optimal paste and a very short component replacement lifecycle when used under track conditions. If you do not use the car on track then it doesn't matter, but if you do Porsche say that you should record exact track mileage and replace various elements of the corners to a schedule that starts at only every 4200 track miles for the rear hubs and bearings (which is expensive both in parts and labour costs). The intervals vary, but the affected components are the hub, nut, bearings and hub carriers and the labour alone for the jobs is up to 3 hours per corner. The schedule is different on centre lock 991s as that does use different components, but the hubs even on that are still lifed. So, the odd track day is OK but regular track use will require a F1 type budget?

Eleven said: DiscoColin said: crystalmethod said: Eleven said: Do I recall there was some issue about Porsche CLs and track use? I think was GT3 CLs, which had to be recalled and inspected if I remember correctly. There haven't been any such issues with GTS CLs though. Incorrect - the exact same components are on the GTS as the gen 2 GT3/RS/2RS/Turbo S (though if you mean that there have not yet been any actual catastrophic failures on the GTS this is probably right, but bear in mind that there haven't actually been many on anything else). All Porsche CLs are subject to a set of requirements including higher torque (600Nm), a special greasing regime with optimal paste and a very short component replacement lifecycle when used under track conditions. If you do not use the car on track then it doesn't matter, but if you do Porsche say that you should record exact track mileage and replace various elements of the corners to a schedule that starts at only every 4200 track miles for the rear hubs and bearings (which is expensive both in parts and labour costs). The intervals vary, but the affected components are the hub, nut, bearings and hub carriers and the labour alone for the jobs is up to 3 hours per corner. The schedule is different on centre lock 991s as that does use different components, but the hubs even on that are still lifed. So, the odd track day is OK but regular track use will require a F1 type budget? I just read this, which just mentions GT3s: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=123... Then I checked with my OPC who said my GTS didn't need any attention. That said, you may well be correct Colin. I'm no expert... Edited by crystalmethod on Wednesday 25th March 18:50

c4sman said: av185 said: Go leather btw........ That pic is not just normal leather and includes extended leather on centre console with logo etc. Looks nice but most GTS' with leather will not look like that That's a pic of my car.....full leather including central console with GTS logo and leather adjoining gearlever. Both a strong requirement on the GTS imo as 997s look cheap and nasty with the placcy bits.....unless you have the basic placcy but weight saving dash to match.....

nigestar said: I'm pretty sure this Guards Red GTS4 was up for sale at OPC Mid Sussex last month. http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-4-gt... Now seems to be at Paragon. It had the upgraded painted red seat backs, same miles and was 11 plate like this one. FWIW I think the red seat backs with red belts works great in Red and with Alcantara differentiates from bog std 997 interior I started off not wanting alcantara but in the end I got to rather like it. That looks great, other than the aforementioned weedy wheel offset.

hondansx said: That looks great, other than the aforementioned weedy wheel offset. Better with the Carrera Sports? Difficult to compare at a different angle, but I think it is.

av185 said: That's a pic of my car.....full leather including central console with GTS logo and leather adjoining gearlever. Both a strong requirement on the GTS imo as 997s look cheap and nasty with the placcy bits.....unless you have the basic placcy but weight saving dash to match..... Your car interior looks great, no dispute there. But I also love my alcantara interior just because it is so different to the usual black leather everywhere of so many other normal cars, and it gives the car a unique sporty feel

c4sman said: av185 said: That's a pic of my car.....full leather including central console with GTS logo and leather adjoining gearlever. Both a strong requirement on the GTS imo as 997s look cheap and nasty with the placcy bits.....unless you have the basic placcy but weight saving dash to match..... Your car interior looks great, no dispute there. But I also love my alcantara interior just because it is so different to the usual black leather everywhere of so many other normal cars, and it gives the car a unique sporty feel It does look great. I opted for alcantara with additional leather on dash, door, centre etc.. Seems to be a nice combination. Alcantara wheel holding up surprisingly well after three years. Really didn't expect it to.

hondansx said: nigestar said: I'm pretty sure this Guards Red GTS4 was up for sale at OPC Mid Sussex last month. http://www.paragongb.com/cars/porsche-carrera-4-gt... Now seems to be at Paragon. It had the upgraded painted red seat backs, same miles and was 11 plate like this one. FWIW I think the red seat backs with red belts works great in Red and with Alcantara differentiates from bog std 997 interior I started off not wanting alcantara but in the end I got to rather like it. That looks great, other than the aforementioned weedy wheel offset. Lovely looking car & holding its money really well. Red with the black wheels looks awesome.

Eleven said: Better with the Carrera Sports? Difficult to compare at a different angle, but I think it is. Carrera Sports look good but are the heaviest 997 wheel which for me doesn't sit well with GTS ethos

av185 said: c4sman said: av185 said: Go leather btw........ That pic is not just normal leather and includes extended leather on centre console with logo etc. Looks nice but most GTS' with leather will not look like that That's a pic of my car.....full leather including central console with GTS logo and leather adjoining gearlever. Both a strong requirement on the GTS imo as 997s look cheap and nasty with the placcy bits.....unless you have the basic placcy but weight saving dash to match..... nice to get those leather extras you have though I couldnt find it in the right colour for me.. in my case you soon forget about it once you've found one!

c4sman said: Eleven said: Better with the Carrera Sports? Difficult to compare at a different angle, but I think it is. Carrera Sports look good but are the heaviest 997 wheel which for me doesn't sit well with GTS ethos personally I love guards red with the black CLs but in the end went for all black on GTS - less in your face look that doesn't stand out in the car park so much. Both these cars look great. If you cannot live with CLs then I guess the compromise is one like this black one @ paragon. You won't find that many for sale.

c4sman said: Carrera Sports look good but are the heaviest 997 wheel which for me doesn't sit well with GTS ethos How much does the GTS weigh compared to a C2S then?

Eleven said: hondansx said: That looks great, other than the aforementioned weedy wheel offset. Better with the Carrera Sports? Difficult to compare at a different angle, but I think it is. The advantage is that, with 5 studs, you can do something about it (Tequipment or aftermarket spacers), but with CLs you are stuck with what you've got! I'm just fussy because having changed the wheels (with a lower offset) on mine, whenever i see a standard car the difference is really noticeable!

I've sat in the black one mentioned here and the interior is a bit tatty. Just saying...

Ape50 said: I've sat in the black one mentioned here and the interior is a bit tatty. Just saying... That's interesting, thanks. What was tatty specifically?

The car has been well prepped but there's a limit to what you can do with an interior. Nothing major but too much 'wear and tear' for a car of that age - especially given the price(IMO)

Ape50 said: The car has been well prepped but there's a limit to what you can do with an interior. Nothing major but too much 'wear and tear' for a car of that age - especially given the price(IMO) Interesting. The steering wheel is a lot shiny for a 26k mile car. I am too far away from it to go see what is probably a waste of time. However a family member lives nearby and I may get him to call in. I've been to see another car today, at a dealership, that was blatantly a long way from its description. I am starting to wonder whether this is going to be more of a PITA than I can be bothered with.

CLs should not be a showstopper. You can always do a conversion to 5 lug. I did on my 997.2 GT3. Edited by mm450exc on Friday 27th March 16:38

How many miles did the black one have then? My Gen 2 C4S has done just over 50,000 miles and the leather looks new! Yet my Gen 1 GT3's leather looks a bit like a taxi that's done 200,000 miles (it's done 30,000).

hondansx said: How many miles did the black one have then? My Gen 2 C4S has done just over 50,000 miles and the leather looks new! Yet my Gen 1 GT3's leather looks a bit like a taxi that's done 200,000 miles (it's done 30,000). 26k on the black one.

Eleven said: So, the odd track day is OK but regular track use will require a F1 type budget? Not really an F1 budget, but essentially yes. If you are only doing a couple of days a year then it will take a very long time to be relevant and isn't really worth worrying about. If you are doing something more like a dozen a year then obviously you are going to have to give it some consideration.

hondansx said: The advantage is that, with 5 studs, you can do something about it (Tequipment or aftermarket spacers), but with CLs you are stuck with what you've got! Yes and no. You can use OE or aftermarket (OZ, BBS and quite a few others) 997.2 GT3RS wheels on a CL GTS (with slightly fruitier offsets and wider widths) if you like. Expensive compared with spacers, but some of the options do actually look gob-smackingly awesome.

DiscoColin said: hondansx said: The advantage is that, with 5 studs, you can do something about it (Tequipment or aftermarket spacers), but with CLs you are stuck with what you've got! Yes and no. You can use OE or aftermarket (OZ, BBS and quite a few others) 997.2 GT3RS wheels on a CL GTS (with slightly fruitier offsets and wider widths) if you like. Expensive compared with spacers, but some of the options do actually look gob-smackingly awesome. The ride height of my GTS (which has PASM) has always bothered me, and now you've made me see the need for spacers, except that I assume they don't exist for CLs. Are you saying there may be scope for an OPC solution? As I'd really like to sort both but keep the warranty. Apologies if this is a stupid question!

Well, PH wisdom has prevailed. Having considered the comments here, I agree that the CLs and alcantara are part of what the GTS is about and that probably outweighs my preference for studs and leather. I have therefore bought one with CLs and alcantara.

Eleven said: Well, PH wisdom has prevailed. Having considered the comments here, I agree that the CLs and alcantara are part of what the GTS is about and that probably outweighs my preference for studs and leather. I have therefore bought one with CLs and alcantara. Congratulations! Let's have a look at the pictures then.

crystalmethod said: Eleven said: Well, PH wisdom has prevailed. Having considered the comments here, I agree that the CLs and alcantara are part of what the GTS is about and that probably outweighs my preference for studs and leather. I have therefore bought one with CLs and alcantara. Congratulations! Let's have a look at the pictures then. You'll need to wait until it arrives. The dealer's snaps are awful.

Eleven said: Well, PH wisdom has prevailed. Having considered the comments here, I agree that the CLs and alcantara are part of what the GTS is about and that probably outweighs my preference for studs and leather. I have therefore bought one with CLs and alcantara. Hey Congratulations Eleven. What spec and colour did you get and when's pick up? Pics are required. - i hope you enjoy it as from my couple of hours in one they are awesome.

Shiverman said: Eleven said: Well, PH wisdom has prevailed. Having considered the comments here, I agree that the CLs and alcantara are part of what the GTS is about and that probably outweighs my preference for studs and leather. I have therefore bought one with CLs and alcantara. Hey Congratulations Eleven. What spec and colour did you get and when's pick up? Pics are required. - i hope you enjoy it as from my couple of hours in one they are awesome. Red one. Modest spec, but nothing missing that I really need nor anything that offends me. Should have it Wednesday I hope.

crystalmethod said: The ride height of my GTS (which has PASM) has always bothered me, and now you've made me see the need for spacers, except that I assume they don't exist for CLs. Are you saying there may be scope for an OPC solution? As I'd really like to sort both but keep the warranty. Apologies if this is a stupid question! You absolutely could not use spacers on centre locks (the nature of a nut precludes the option of longer bolts to permit an adequate amount of thread engagement if spacers were in play). However, my point was that you can use different wheels to push the wheels into the arches - 997.2 GT3RS wheels will look like they had about 7-8mm of spacers compared to the Spyder wheels due to the increased width and different offsets. OZ Ultraleggeras would provide a cheaper aftermarket alternative to achieve the aesthetic if you were happy to use non OE wheels (you would have to swap the original ones back on at warranty renewal time though).

Eleven said: Red one. Modest spec, but nothing missing that I really need nor anything that offends me. Should have it Wednesday I hope. Most excellent - congrats.

Congratulations. Red will look fab!

Thanks for your good wishes guys. I must confess I am quite excited, it's been some time since I've had a 997.

DiscoColin said: crystalmethod said: The ride height of my GTS (which has PASM) has always bothered me, and now you've made me see the need for spacers, except that I assume they don't exist for CLs. Are you saying there may be scope for an OPC solution? As I'd really like to sort both but keep the warranty. Apologies if this is a stupid question! You absolutely could not use spacers on centre locks (the nature of a nut precludes the option of longer bolts to permit an adequate amount of thread engagement if spacers were in play). However, my point was that you can use different wheels to push the wheels into the arches - 997.2 GT3RS wheels will look like they had about 7-8mm of spacers compared to the Spyder wheels due to the increased width and different offsets. OZ Ultraleggeras would provide a cheaper aftermarket alternative to achieve the aesthetic if you were happy to use non OE wheels (you would have to swap the original ones back on at warranty renewal time though). Ah. Many thanks. Something to think on...

crystalmethod said: DiscoColin said: crystalmethod said: The ride height of my GTS (which has PASM) has always bothered me, and now you've made me see the need for spacers, except that I assume they don't exist for CLs. Are you saying there may be scope for an OPC solution? As I'd really like to sort both but keep the warranty. Apologies if this is a stupid question! You absolutely could not use spacers on centre locks (the nature of a nut precludes the option of longer bolts to permit an adequate amount of thread engagement if spacers were in play). However, my point was that you can use different wheels to push the wheels into the arches - 997.2 GT3RS wheels will look like they had about 7-8mm of spacers compared to the Spyder wheels due to the increased width and different offsets. OZ Ultraleggeras would provide a cheaper aftermarket alternative to achieve the aesthetic if you were happy to use non OE wheels (you would have to swap the original ones back on at warranty renewal time though). Ah. Many thanks. Something to think on... GT3 wheels are expensive, but then they will always be worth big money second hand too. That's the Man Maths argument done for you. Glad the thread has ended well - look forward to seeing the photos!

Eleven said: Thanks for your good wishes guys. I must confess I am quite excited, it's been some time since I've had a 997. Congrats. Bought mine in Feb from OPC. It didnt have everything inside that I wanted but you soon forget that.

Congrats, red is a great choice and you will not regret buying a GTS!

Will also be in the market for a 997 GTS in the next few months. I placed a deposit a few weeks ago on a new CGTS - but now having second thoughts, a 12 month wait etc. I also regretted selling my last two 911's (a 993 & a 996 turbo). Also Porsche let me have a 997 GTS for the weekend when it was launched & I loved it; so I now leaning towards the 997 GTS. At least I won't have to wait 12 months for a CGTS & will also save a few quid.

Eleven said: Thanks for your good wishes guys. I must confess I am quite excited, it's been some time since I've had a 997. Had it got black mirrors and manual 'box?

Andrew911 said: Will also be in the market for a 997 GTS in the next few months. I placed a deposit a few weeks ago on a new CGTS - but now having second thoughts, a 12 month wait etc. I also regretted selling my last two 911's (a 993 & a 996 turbo). Also Porsche let me have a 997 GTS for the weekend when it was launched & I loved it; so I now leaning towards the 997 GTS. At least I won't have to wait 12 months for a CGTS & will also save a few quid. yes good point. 991GTS not far off twice the price but is it twice the car? It is amazing but I'm not sure it is. I was tempted all the same. 997GTS have floated around 60k for a while now. will be interesting to see if this remains the case and if 991GTS prices hold firm.

MrTickle said: Eleven said: Thanks for your good wishes guys. I must confess I am quite excited, it's been some time since I've had a 997. Had it got black mirrors and manual 'box? Yes, but also a black body. It was a Gen 1 Carrera 2S.

Eleven said: Yes, but also a black body. It was a Gen 1 Carrera 2S. LOL typo - i meant 'has it got' ie. the new one My old GTS was Guards with black mirrors - just wondering its whereabouts now

MrTickle said: LOL typo - i meant 'has it got' ie. the new one My old GTS was Guards with black mirrors - just wondering its whereabouts now You know what, it could be yours. This one's side mirrors look like they may have been re-painted (red). The reg starts NL11 - it's got a rear wiper (would you admit to that?), self-dimming mirrors, paddle shift and some other bits. Sound familiar?

Eleven said: You know what, it could be yours. This one's side mirrors look like they may have been re-painted (red). The reg starts NL11 - it's got a rear wiper (would you admit to that?), self-dimming mirrors, paddle shift and some other bits. Sound familiar? Nope, not mine then - I would never spec a rear wiper Mine was a manual too. I have no idea on the reg now, as I had it from new on my private plate, so it was issued a new one after my disposal.

Well, mine was delivered this afternoon. I've done a few miles in it and got the shiny paint all dirty. Children clambering in and out has done the same for the interior. It feels good to be back in a 997 again. After a long spell in 991s and then without a 911 of any sort, my first impressions are that the GTS reminds me of my 911s of old. Oddly, when the GTS was first launched I test drove one and didn't like it particularly. Perhaps at that time I'd spent too much time in 997s and familiarity does breed contempt. It will be interesting to see if I bond with it going forwards.