Car & Driver tests 2001 996TT versus 2002 Corvette Z06--- at roadcourse/dragstrip>

Car & Driver,(C&D), just tested many of the modified TUNER cars in the latest issue. As a sidebar C&D invited Porsche AG, Chevy, and Diamler Chrysler to send over a 996Twin Turbo, Corvette Z06 coupe, and a Viper. Chrysler didnt make the show......Porsche sent Hurley Haywood and Chevy sent over a driver/engineer. I couldnt believe the results that were in black and white......the corvette dominated and won EVERY single performance category EVEN the ones I thought the Turbo was invincible? What the HELL is going on......did the 996TT have an engine problem? Did Chevy stack the deck and send in a RINGER?......where is the GT2? I hope are German friends are burning more mid-night oil developing performance cars and new racing programs.....as they near the end of development on the SUV. The Vette won as it was 350lbs lighter and remember Lighter= faster!

What is the old saying about the emperor having no clothes???

I just cancelled my order for the 996TT after reading that article. I believe there was an article a few months back in another magazine that also showed that the Z06 was faster around a road course than the 996TT, and that was the 385hp version and not the 405hp version due out soon. That same article said that the 360 Modena was slightly faster than the Z06. I have driven the Z06, it is a great car. I always wanted a 911. I am going to buy a Z06 and a regular 2002 996. Why waste money on the turbo? The GT2 should be better than the Z06 - at that price that is not a big accomplishment.

The Germans should put the 996TT on a 300lb diet and they should have had the power set at 480-500hp from initial engineering goals. You are going to have 2 cars......heres an idea....you may end up with 3. 2002 Z06 , 2000 996, and a used M3 1995 ????????? None theless pehaps a used $60,000 Viper GTS and a used 993 or used 996 aerokit coupe

"Did Chevy stack the deck and send in a RINGER?......where is the GT2?" LOL! The Z06 STOMPS THE LIVING BEJESUS out of the 996 which without one option is 30% more than the Z06! So what do they do, but go up the Porsche food chain to a 140% premium over the Z06 to the TT to find competition. Once they square off with the TT and are found to be staunch competitors, we say "hey wait, we have a limited production (100 cars in US for 02 and 66 for 03) $180k GT2 which is 260% more than the Z06, but finally competes. Why not use this one?" LOL! Chevy is kicking our butts. Admit it and own it. The sooner Porsche does, the better off we'll all be.

I wanted to reply, but I'm just too sick to my stomach.

Somebody should figure out the fax number of the press department from porsche germany and should send this article to them. NO. We all should do that.

I know that I should have a greater love for my car than just a 0-60 time....I feel I do. But I'm getting tired of pulling up to redlights and seeing a Corvette and thinking..."this guys paid 50k for that car and it will blow the doors of my 95k car." I know there is much more to the car but deep down I'm screaming " screw SUV make my car faster!" JD 2000 C4

"I know that I should have a greater love for my car than just a 0-60 time...." Awe, and therein lies the rub. The Z06 does EVERYTHING better than the 996 (acceleration, braking, lateral Gs, etc). It does them as well as the TT. The Z06's dominance over the 996 non-TT is across the board - not just 0-60.

Yes, that was a disturbing article to read. True, the ZO6 has proven to be better around a track (other tracks may vary, of course) vs the 996TT. That's not to say a 996TT might be better on another track since certain tracks can benefit certain cars. I also noticed that the 996TT tested in this particular article was extremely slow (12.9 sec 1/4 mile ???). Was something wrong with their car? This is getting close to M3/C32 territory! Even the Tiptronic 996TT posted a 4.2sec 0-60 the last time it was tested. Well, the 996 is a funner car to drive. And the Porsche has way more class. But, at ~50K, the ZO6 is hard to beat. Yes, the 996TT could definitely go on a 300lb diet, just like other AWD cars like the Audi S4.

Guys I figured that out 3 years ago. I had a porsche motor and it sucked, so as the old saying goes if you can't beat them join them so I did. At least now I'm happy and I bleed bow-tie. SWAMP MONSTER

I am building a bigger garage at the workshop and keeping the 993RS that started life as plain-jane 1995 993 USA 6spd. BUT I am sending the local Chevy dealer a $500 deposit for a Z06 COUPE just so that when they GM offers the COUPE I am in line. I dont want the hardtop and give me Electron blue saddle interior 6spd and then MAYBE I ship it to John Lingenfelter for 427CI small block conversion of the Z06 (www.lingenfleter.com )and have 550HP or ship it to KATECH in Michigan and they can stroke it to a 7.0liter all aluminum monster. KATECH is superfamous for engine (www.katechengines.com) does the Corvette CR5 engines, Oldmobile Aurora IRL engines and won everything. STILL AFTER all this I wouldnt race Georges V8 swampmonster in a straightline because he be juiced and "spraying" for 900HP. I'd race him at a Road Course in warmed up 2003 427ci Z06.

Ben in li, read the article, it is a 996tt that the vette is beating. And if that car is lame who should get the blame for that? Chevrolet didn't select the Porsche, Porsche did. Something else to think about, accdoring to autothority, their car has 200 additionl hp and is only a couple of tenths quicker. Those numbers dont add up. I agree that the Porsche is a much sweeter car to drive but you should get something for the extra $65k. A more accurate comparison would be 996tt vs z06 vette & m5 bmw. Then it's dollar for dollar.

Personally...I'm very dissapointed by the 996TT's on paper performance. Porsche really needs to get it's butt in gear...Hopefully they will once the SUV is done with. BTW according to motor trend the 996TT does the 1/4 mile in 11.9 @ 116mph. The Z06 in 12.6 @ 112.4mph. That's more like it...but the 996TT wasn't built for the drag strip... I wonder how a 993TT would fare against the Z06...

My conclusion is that the 2002 Z06 is the performance bargain of the century and that the 996 Twin Turbo that they tested with was a very WEAK example and not reprsentative in terms of engine drivetrain performance. The 996TT should have been a flat 12 second car and 993TT are slower and both Twin Turbo make excellent dragracing starts. Dont think Porsche 911s cant drag they can. I have a 12.9 slip somewhere in the files from ATCO.

Oh I know they can drag...I just said that they weren't designed for it. I agree with you that this seems like a weak example...Handling wise as well. This article says that the 996TT pulls .93G's around the skidpad, .98G's for the Z06. Road and track puts the 996TT at .96 and the Z06 at 1.00. Motor trend doesn't list skidpad or slalom speeds...but I know they didn't get 1G for the Z06. There's no doubt about one thing though..in my mind anyway..the 996TT is a much better daily driver than the Z06. Every article I've read that mentioned the ride in either car mentioned that the Z06 was quite stiff & rough. Odly enough the Porsche is a better daily driver (IMO) than the Chevrolet...Quite interesting.... Anyhew...I'm glad I don't have to make the decision between the two cars (lack of funds). It was clear for me...('89 951 owner).

Yes, the Z06 is a great value for a performance car. That being said, the 911 is something special - its much more than its numbers. I know I can't outdrag a Z06 (or viper) in my C4 Coupe, but I LOVE the way my car looks, feels and handles and its pretty darn fast. If you're talking just "value" for the dollar, the boxter S probably delivers more performance for the dollar than the 911, but we all purchased 911s! (and we got 2 + 2 to boot). I don't intend to take anything away from the vette - its a cool car - its just a very different car than the porsche and I'd make the same purchase decision today if choosing between the Z06 and the 911 (notwithstanding the price differntial).

Why not wreap the benefits of both worlds-get a c2 996 and a corvette z06. I think it comes close to the price of one 996 tt. You get the prestige of a porsche and the performance of the z06 in one garage. thanks

I can't believe anyone would try to rationalize the results of the test. I know we all love Porsche, we don't seem to be listening. Porsche has told us over and over again they don't care about out-performing the best from Chevrolet, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Dodge, or any other performance car manufacturer. Their only baseline is the previous model year. They strive to provide better handling, better performance, and more luxury than the prior year. We see the very evidence of this in the C&D article, in the fact they show no interest in racing programs, and they place so much emphasis the American market (Yes, we Americans are to blame for the SUV). It's like not being able to see someone's faults because you are blinded by love. Let's take a cold shower and wake up to the reality. Until they see their market share dropping to the likes of the Corvette, Viper, or other performance cars, they'll keep on do what makes them the most money.

After reading the article with the reference to the corvette z66 and the porsche 996 tt- i never thought it was a fair comparison becuase both are two different animals. I mean how can you compare a 8 vs 6 cylinder engine. A better comparison is can any other company build a better 6 cylinder then porsche or can anyone build a better 8 cylinder then a corvette. I know there are no cars that can beat the 6 of a porsche but there maybe a few that can better the corvette 8 cylinder. And if porsche decides to build an 8 cylinder i'm pretty sure it may best the corvette z06. And from a price standpoint I'd say whatever you can afford because the price of the porsche and corvette will never come close. just my 2 cents worth. take care.

996FLT6, what about the M3-E46 3.3l 343HP 8000 RPM atmosferic L-6cil. engine and the Ferrari 360M 3.6l 400HP 8500RPM atmosferic V8? never say never Anyway, I wonder why C&D didn�t have a 911 GT2 in the test . Isn�t the Z06 a lighter more powerful version with upgraded suspensions of the C5, then with not call in the lighter, 2WD, more powerful version of the 911 (462HP and 3175lbs.)? I guess the other car makers incl. Chevy said "no fair ". Carlos from Spain 996 C4

To Carlos from Spain- I stand corrected. I imagine in time we'll see how both 6's do longterm. There both great engines. I love to get the new m3 as a daily driver-its a more practical package and a great value. take care.

"This article says that the 996TT pulls .93G's around the skidpad" FWIW, this is also what they got out of the Box S!!!!! "Isn�t the Z06 a lighter more powerful version with upgraded suspensions of the C5, then with not call in the lighter, 2WD, more powerful version of the 911 (462HP and 3175 lbs.)? I guess the other car makers incl. Chevy said "no fair". Carlos, aren't you the least bit embarassed that Chevy has to go up 300% in price (with gas and lux tax) from the Z06 in the Porcsche foodchain to finally find a car that blows it way? Even then, the GT2 doesn't exactly blow away the TT. No, I think Chevy would be laughing their ***** off (with lots of justification) if Porsche sent the $180k + lux, gas, and sales tax GT2 to fight it's battles rather than screaming "no fair". Given the paper numbers aren't that diff for the TT and GT2 for most of the stuff R&T tested in the Z06 vs. TT showdown, it would be a serious blow to Porsche to have a $50k vs. $180K+ showdown.

BTW, since TOTAL US production for the GT2 for the next TWO years is only 166, I'd think the Z06 should be shipped to Lingerwhatever for a 700 hp retrofit. It would probably be about as limited production as the GT2, kick it's **** decidely, and still cost well under 1/2 the GT2.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ben in lj: Carlos, aren't you the least bit embarassed that Chevy has to go up 300% in price (with gas and lux tax) from the Z06 in the Porcsche foodchain to finally find a car that blows it way? No, I think Chevy would be laughing their ***** off (with lots of justification) if Porsche sent the $180k + lux, gas, and sales tax GT2 to fight it's battles rather than screaming "no fair Well, if you make a luxury car comparison for example, would Lexus be laughing at Rolls Royce because Lexus is cheaper? I don�t think so. You can�t compare the 911 to a stripped down Vette in a global sense because the Vette is simply no match, just like Lexus is no match for Rolls Royce. You can only compare them in a very specific deparment which is accel. figures and price, and just about it!(and the performance of the 911TT smells fishy to me too.) You get MUCH more from the 911 globally and that costs $$. Why would Porsche want to make a cheap version of the 911 (or even Boxer will do) with just a couple of cheap turbos and no toys and refinement to compete in 0-60 figures in the "bargain" sportcar market? BTW you may only get 166 units of the GT2 in the U.S but do you know how many units of the Z06 will we get here in Europe? None! Carlos.

Man, you guys kill me. On one hand you say the reason a vette costing 42% of the cost of a 996tt smokes it, handling, stopping and yes the much malingned but most enjoyable ACCELERATION. Now you act like Porsche should have as a slogan, "best 6cyl sports car you can buy for $120k." That way the fact that the vette wore it out is neutralizied "'cause it's a V8." Then on the other hand after admitting the v8's inherent advantage, you're on other threads referring to v8's as big, heavy and slow revving. Whatever characteristics they have apparently include the ability to make superior power for a lot less money than whatever Porsche is currently doing. Now of course that is of no consequense to the "money is no object" purist types. But there are not enough of them around to keep Porsche in business (hence the SUV). GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND.

Ok, if you are confused,lets make it simpler then, Yes, the Z06�s LS6 engine is a powerful cheap engine but, so is the viper�s. Does that mean V10 is better than v8? No, V8 engines are a not always a superior configuration than a 6 cil. There is more to an engine than "most bang for the buck". Some cars need an 8cil some a 6cil. depending on what the whole package needs. Yes, there is more to a car than 0-60, C&D�s skidpad, and other figures, and that "more" is the expensive part. And if thats all you use to judge a car then you are missing a whole lot to sportcar enjoyment. Thats why I choose a 911 rather than a cheaper more powerful M3 for example(or ZO6). Conclusion, if you can afford it you can buy a 911TT or 911GT2 if not you can settle for a Z06 which is the closest thing with similar performance for $60k BTW, Carlos, did you read Andreas Gnutzmann�s post in the "911 in 2004" topic? Seems like you will finnally be getting your long awaited 8 cil Porsche (new 928 it seems) . Hope its true, now thats a project, not the ANTI-SPORTS CAR SUV which should be called vanilla and not cayenne. Sad day it will be when a SUV will wear Ferry�s crest on the hood Carlos from Spain

Well aparently a 911 needs a V8 if Porsche wants to run with BMW. Now if you think that having less power and charging more for it provides some kind of elitist snob apeal that I may not be capable of appreciating, you may be right. But if you think that there are not a lot of guys with 996tts that are extremely dissapointed to find out that a $50k vette out accelerates, out brakes and out handles their car, you are wrong. All of the bull**** about the 6cyl motor is escoteric. If more power is not desirable then why do so many people spend so much money in pursuit of it?

I obviously can�t be any clearer, but I don�t think its a problem in communication but rather I feel some resentment towards 911�s from you, Carlos. You seem happy that a the Z06 beat a fishy 911TT in a "C&D" test (I�d like to see a real test lapping Nurburgring for example, then we would make some conclusions about handling, the Z06 could not even beat the 6cil atmospheric 911GT3 and definately could not hold the track rithym for long compared to the Porsche... thats why after their durability tests Chevy is changing the clutch on the Z06 2002 now!and after 5 min of track use the oil temp is already to 250 degrees,but thats what you get for 40k) I�ve read posts in which you state comments like "my 14yr old 928 dusted the current wundercar (996)" "I handed his *** to him" ", I abused the **** out of whoever was driving the shiny blue 996" and so on. I�m not a pschoanalist but I�m sure getting the picture the more posts I read from you, all that resentemnt towards 911�s! do they make you feel inferior or violent? where you jealous of the "shinny blue 996"? Get over it. I drive a 996 C4 and don�t go bashing 911TT owners and if a street race comes up, then its a friendly competition with a fellow car enthusiast no matter how faster or better his car is. You are quick to point out the solution to the "ignorant" Porsche engineers, then you call people who choose the 911 "snobs" because you can�t comprehend anything more than winning in a dragrace, and nothing about power delivery, handling caracteristics, practicality, safety at to-the-limit driving, reliability, overall balance, poise at high speeds, interior build quality, etc, etc, etc. BTW why don�t you post that post on the 911TT forum and see how many of the 911TT owners prefer the Z06 Get over it, Carlos. Carlos from Spain

Just to be clear. . a Twin Turbo Porsche will destroy a new stock vette in a 1/4 mile. Versus a Z06, it will be close, but the Porsche SHOULD win that race with similar drivers. I'm just wondering where it will all end. . this is a great time to be into sports cars. The TT Porsche is a high 11/low 12 second car. . that's FAST, very fast. And people complain that it's not fast enough. lol When do you have ENOUGH horsepower? Hennessey has an 800TT Viper. . Lingenfelter has a 225mph vette. . both are barely over $100K, with warranty. Supra guys are putting on gigantic single turbos and getting around 1000rwhp. . it's madness. Anyway, I surf a few forums. . the guys with the cash that are true performance junkies all seem to go for heavily modded Vipers, Corvettes, and Supras b/c they're *relatively* inexpensive to get a whole lot of bang out of. At any rate, I'd take a Twin Turbo Porsche over a Z06 in a heartbeat, going on the track or not. But then, take a look at this package the Hennessey has for the Z06/Z600. .an upgrade to 600 horsepower, etc. Once it's all said and done, it's still under $80,000. http://www.hennesseymotorsports.com/cgi/store/commerce.cgi?page=26.html&cart_id=16 6186_18917 Anyway, don't put too much stock in magazine numbers. . A Twin Turbo porsche doesn't have to worry about a stock vette pulling up next to them. The Z06 came out last year with a new engine, etc. A few people had oil problems, and it gets blown out of proportion. I know Porsche has had it's problems as well. In ANY performance circle, the Twin Turbo Porsche is highly respected. That can't be said of any other car except certain Ferraris and Lamborghinis.

Chill CFS. Read the posts the 996 driver was the guy shouting and waving his arms around. And the comment about "whoever was driving the 996" was in response to guys like you making snippy little coments and cute insinuations. And so we are clear, I think the 911 is an amazing car. I don't think Porsche engineers are stupid. I think they're brilliant. They have gotten more out of a 45 year old design than anyone could have dreamed of. What I have a problem with is purist types who think that a Porsche can run faster, jump higher, dive deeper and come up dryer than any other car. And that anyone who disagrees is a cro magnon or worse. That's all.

Jeez, seems like most of you didn't read the article. The drag race times were slow because they had bad traction. They were at a road course, not a drag strip with a sticky launching pad. The Z06 is a track-tuned special, most people wouldn't want to live with it on a day to day basis. And the hardtop is goofy-looking (Chevy has said numerous times they won't ever offer Z06 in the coupe). Personally, I would never pay 50 grand for a plastic Chevy. I'm not sure I would want one at any price. I'll take a solid German-engineered M3 for the same money any day, that performs 90 to 95% as well.

PIGBILL: Unless you just landed from outer space my porsche 911 carrera has cheap plastic. It rides like a truck and I have the best money can buy porsche race parts on it so whats your point. I just made the best of both worlds chevrolet power porsche looks and some plastic interior with a german flare. SWAMP MONSTER

If you get an M series BMW driver to level with you they will tell you the ride is so stiff it will knock your fillings loose. And besides, a Z06 will drag any M like a skier.

To each their own. . if we all drove the same cars, the streets would be pretty boring. M3s are awesome cars. .I'd really love to have an M5 though. To keep the price down, you have to make a sacrifice somewhere. Personally, I love the layout of the vette's interior, except for the plastic that covers it. Ever sat in a new CL600? Suede interior all around. It's all relative. . I'd rather have the performance and a lesser interior. . some would rather have plush leather, etc, and sacrifice performance. (if you can't afford to spend 6 figures) You're correct on daily driving a Z06. . it would beat you to death, not a very smooth ride at all. But that's the difference between a touring car, and a sports car.

Quote from Carlos: "I think the 911 is an amazing car. I don't think Porsche engineers are stupid. I think they're brilliant. They have gotten more out of a 45 year old design than anyone could have dreamed of. What I have a problem with is purist types who think that a Porsche can run faster, jump higher, dive deeper and come up dryer than any other car. And that anyone who disagrees is a cro magnon or worse. That's all." I mostly agree with you on that one. BTW i owned a lowered down! E36-M3 and ride wasn�t bad. PIG4BILL quote: "Jeez, seems like most of you didn't read the article. The drag race times were slow because they had bad traction. They were at a road course, not a drag strip with a sticky launching pad. The Z06 is a track-tuned special, most people wouldn't want to live with it on a day to day basis. And the hardtop is goofy-looking (Chevy has said numerous times they won't ever offer Z06 in the coupe). Personally, I would never pay 50 grand for a plastic Chevy. I'm not sure I would want one at any price. I'll take a solid German-engineered M3 for the same money any day, that performs 90 to 95% as well." I agree 100%! GEORGE 911V-8 quote: "PIGBILL: Unless you just landed from outer space my porsche 911 carrera has cheap plastic. It rides like a truck and I have the best money can buy porsche race parts on it so whats your point." No comment, not ever worth it "rides like a truck" ...I�m still laughing. GEORGE 911V-8 again "I just made the best of both worlds chevrolet power porsche looks and some plastic interior with a german flare." Worder why Porsche hasn�t called you to hire you as ther chief engineer , that is the greatest invention since the wet-dinamite. And if anyone is questioning the 996GT2 handling, I just pickied this up from another post fron Erik Kasir and AutoCar: Ariel Atom 190 - 1m 21.48s Lamborghini Diablo - 1m 21.28s TVR Tuscan S - 1m 22.28s BMW M3 - 1m 24.40s Porsche 911 GT2 - 1m 19.58s (!!!) Ferrari 360 F1 - 1m 21.52s Mitsubishi EVO VII - 1m 24.23s Noble M12 - 1m 21.35s Lotus Elise - 1m 25.03s Its not the most powerfull or the fastes in 0-60 but how come it does the fastest lap? Some people here still don�t know the answer to that...sad Carlos from spain

The roads in Spain must be as smooth as a pool table. Here in America, 1000 miles in a lowered m anything and you'd need hemorhoid surgery. Muybe Lambo and those other mfrs just sent slugs to the test, like you guys said Porsche did in the vette comparison?

The E36 M3 I drove did not have a harsh ride at all. I haven't driven an E46 yet, but from what the car rags say, it is not even close to being as harsh as a Z06.

If anything the roads in the States are smoother than we have over here in Europe - I've done a fair bit of driving over there, ranging from NYC to The Carolinas etc. Roads in Spain / Portugal etc are far from smooth. Eric

Pigbill, it's not even close too as fast as a Z06 too! C&D will never say anything bad about any BMW. But I believed the owner of the z3m that I spoke to when he told me he wished he had bought the vette he test drove, 'cause his z3m was beating him to death.

Is speed EVERYTHING though.... My previous car was a seriously modified big BHP Twin Turbo Supra. The car went like stink, but at the end of the day it was just a Toyota, which is why I bought a 993. The 993 is considerably slower than the Supra (by a big margin), however I am much happier with the Porsche. It's all about how you feel about a car, whether you can get emotionally attached to it or not. And M cars are not harsh by a long shot! A friend of mine had the E36 M3 EVO and upgraded to the new M5 at the beginning of this year, I could not describe either car as harsh in any way. Eric

Roads are harsher here (Spain) than in the states but the highways are far smoother (175mph smooth ) here than in the states (autobahn type) and luckily you can get away with speeding (I know all the undercover radar cop cars and usual speedtrap locations by now). I got slaughtered by those laser speed traps in the states . My Euro-spec. E36-M3 with lowered suspensions was not to harsh (for my taste)but certainly a regular C5 vette is softer, but also can�t even compare in handling to an M3. Now I drive the 996 with the sport chasis (lower springs and harder suspensions) and while a bit more confortable than the M3 there is no drawback in handling, actually the 996C4 is superior in handling and balance, especially at high speeds (110mph and up) but maybe its because of superior aeodinamics due to the aerokit, the M3�s front end tended to float a bit at those speeds. Carlos from Spain.

I remember when Porsches were several hundred pounds lighter than Corvette's, sad to see the situation reversed. Ferry Porsche is turning over in his grave.

Have you seen the latest in Autoweek? They are talking about the SuperVette that possibly might hit the 100K range price wise, and offer a 750hp V12. Now that should burn a few flames at PAG.

OK, it's time to make everybody happy...with some lap times from a little track called the Nurburgring. Notice where the vette is (ok we don't know if it's a z06 or not..but still) Hell the S4 is right behind the vette....And am I the only one that finds it interesting that a 600hp 993TT couldn't beat a stock 996TT? Granted it could be driver differences...but it's still food for thought. I think Porsche knows what it's doing though. >> 7:46 - Porsche 996 GT2 >> 7:56 - Porsche 996 Turbo >> 7:57 - Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo (600 HP, racing suspension) >> 8:07 - Ferrari 550 >> 8:09 - Porsche 996 GT3 >> 8:09 - Lamborghini Diablo SV >> 8:09 - Ferrari 360 Modena >> 8:10 - Chrysler Viper GTS >> 8:12 - Porsche 993 Turbo (430 HP version) >> 8:15 - BMW Z8 400 HP >> 8:17 - Porsche 996 C2 >> 8:18 - Ferrari F355 >> 8:22 - BMW M Coupe 321 HP >> 8:25 - Audi RS4 375 HP >> 8:28 - Porsche 993 C2 >> 8:28 - BMW M5 400 HP >> 8:32 - Porsche Boxster S >> 8:35 - BMW M3 Coupe 321 HP >> 8:37 - Mercedes C32 AMG >> 8:38 - Honda NSX >> 8:39 - Honda S2000 >> 8:40 - Chevrolet Corvette >> 8:42 - Audi S4 265 HP >> 8:42 - Lotus Exige >> 8:49 - Jaguar XKR Coupe >> 8:52 - Mercedes CLK 430 >> Source

That's quite telling. Data from a track with all the best elements of twists and straights. Very cool post, thanks.

The depth of the data is impressive. Where's the v12 x5 BMW that ran below 8 seconds? If you think an S2000 can beat a Z06 at anything, go get one. The country's full of Z06 drivers that would love to take your money.

I posted this on alt.autos.porsche and someone gave me a link to a more complete listing of times. Here it is It includes a lot more cars than the previous website I looked at (like the X5 with the 700HP engine).

That may be the standard C5 Vette (for old folks in their mid-life crisis , just a joke, nobody take that personally now), but I bet you anything a Z06 would not rank above the 993TurboS in a real varied and long track like Nurburgring, Carlos. BTW don�t underestimate the S2000, we are talking about REAL handling here nor a drag race, the S2000 is very light, hard suspension setup, racey engine and very light. Let me give you an example, the 360HP 996GT3 lapped officially 7:46 (Walter Rohrl)in Nurburgring matching the 996TT and beating the F550 and tunned 600hp 993 turbo! guess why. Carlos from Spain.

If ya check out the link in my last post, it states that the vette tested is a '98 with 330 or something HP. So nope, it wasn't a Z06. But I dont think the same chasis with some engine/suspension mods will be able to take a minute off its time around a 8 min track...

Some of Car and Driver's numbers don't add up, and a couple of their comments don't make much sense. Hurley does a better job from the start, to the road course entry. He enters the course at 23.6 sec versus the Z06 at 24.4 sec. That's .8 sec faster, and includes the 0-60 and quarter mile timing listed. Hurley also has a 5.4 mph exit speed advantage out of turn 9, the last turn before the straight where they accelerate to 120 mph. Hurley is faster to the first turn, and is faster out of turn 9, but ends up 1.9 sec slower for the whole course. What happened in the other turns? Car, or driver differences? C&D states that the Z06's better Cd gave it the advantage accelerating at higher speeds down the last straight (to 120 mph) but both cars took 4.4 sec to go from 100-120 mph. No Cd impact there. From turn 9 exit speed to 100 mph, both cars were basically equal in acceleration in mph/sec. No Cd impact there either. In the 911 AuthoThority review, they say the 996TT was able to keep pace with the 911 in acceleration down the last straight because of the 15 mph headwind the 911 had to fight (it was a calm the day they tested the 996TT), but the 911 did 100-120 in 3.7 sec versus the 996TT in 4.4 sec. From turn 9 exit speed to 100 mph the 911 had no problem out accelerating the 996TT. I don't consider that "keeping pace".

Dock, you mean Z06 here, right, not 911? Just wanted to clarify. I agree that there's a lot that doesn't "add up". But then, despite reading this entire thread and closely watching for new posts, I think this the entire topic is pretty simple to figure out. I wouldn't buy a Vette if it out performed the McClaren F1 and sold for $30,000, except perhaps as a track car. I just love Porsche. I have a friend who's $21,000. BMW 2002 can spank both the Vette and the 996TT hands down at a small track like Willow Springs. But I wouldn't want to take a cruise up PCH to Santa Barbara in it as much as I would my 996. Vette - Good 996TT - Good Now, get the one you love and admire the facets you like of the other from a distance. They're both great cars, but their typical owners are very different. I like that Porsche raises the bar against it's own standards. I do believe they know their public...and it's probably a good bit different from Chevy's.

Josh, the C&D review of the AutoThority 911 has this to say; "...but as Webster pointed it's blocky bodywork into the 15-mph head wind and started climbing through its tall autobahn gearing, the race was over. (that wind probably explains why the stock 911 Turbo, tested on a calm day, kept pace with the AutoThority car after the road course.)" The comment about the race being over is aimed at the Lingenfelter Corvette, and the "keeping pace" applies to the 996TT. It looks like C&D made the comment about the 996TT keeping pace by looking at the ET from road course exit to 120 mph (the target speed for the 996TT/Z06(stock). The only thing I can figure out is C&D looked at the ET from turn 9 exit to 120 mph. The AutoThority 911's ET was 11.0 sec, and the 996TT was 11.2 sec. This doesn't take into account the different turn 9 exit speeds though. The AutoThority 911 accelerates from 56.3 mph (turn 9 exit speed)to 100 mph at an average of 7.71 mph/sec while the 996TT accelerates from 48.2 to 100 mph at 7.09 mph/sec. The tuned 911 was .7 sec faster from 100-120 mph. As far as the Z06 goes, I'm like you; wouldn't own one.

Ahhh, it was all a conspiracy. You guys sound like Hillary Clinton. Could it have possibly been that the 996 just got beat. Naah, that's impossible. Anybody with a s2000 that wants to race a z06 for money go to corvetteforum.com. There's lots of guys there willing to take your money. Hey Josh, one day when your buddy eats his wheaties, tell him to try Rod Simpson (911, Chevy v8) at Willow Springs, 1:18.

You think checking out numbers and commentary means someone thinks there's a "conspiracy" in the works? Taking at face value the numbers C&D provided, along with their opinion about the numbers, is more the "Hillary" approach: "Don't look at the details, just trust me." The AutoThority 911 SHOULD beat the 996TT in acceleration (headwind or not), and I think C&D's numbers show this to be true. They just don't think it's true. Do you think C&D's results show the Z06 out accelerating the 996TT at higher speeds down the last straight? I just don't think some of their comments are accurate. It would have also helped it C&D provided the same "Minimum corner speed, mph/ Maximum lateral grip, g" road course numbers for the stock cars, as they did for the tuners.

Wow Carlos, that's a sharp tongue you have. Imagine if I was actually trying to rattle you, you might have pissed yourself. So Rod runs 1:18 around Willow. I'm impressed. That's great. I watched Eric Messley run 1:17, 1:18 in a highly modified, 805 HP Viper, and again, that's a car I wouldn't have for my daily driver. Here's some statistics for you from the Willow Springs track records . Streetable, and obvioulsy this is a most subjective term (as is "good", "stylish", "the best", etc.), cars don't usually do 1:18 at Willow. Most drivers on this board don't have race cars. Further, a professional driver is not necessarily a good indication of what makes a car good for the majority of members on this board. Since my point seems to have eluded you I'll reiterate it here. I think hats-off to Chevy for making such a great performer. Great to have such powerful V8s too. I still like my 996 C2 more. And I like the 996TT more. I think they're both better (remember, this is a subjective word Carlos) cars than the Chevy. I prefer them in every way. Would I like a faster Porsche, sure. And I'll get one...the next one. Porsche measures its performance improvements based on its previous model, and they have always raised the bar accordingly. Therefore the next new Porsche will be better than the previous. I think you also missed the point about how a cheaper car (my friends BMW) can run circles around a Z06 or a 996TT at Willow. That car was built for doing such. The 996TT was built for a whole lot more, and that's the way I like it. And that's the way most unpretentious enthuasists like it, oh, and the way Porsche can stay in business selling cars. You can have your Vette, and maybe you should. I have the perfect car for my needs, both street and track. I too think that some "improvements" can be made to the stock Porsches, and I made a few to my own to better suit my needs. But the Porsches are, IMHO, the best - remember subjective - platform and all-round cars. Go back and read the statistics from Willow, see how race cars do on the track, in the hands of professionals , and then talk to me about eating wheaties.

Couldn�t have said it better myself, Josh. But I think your wasting your time with this one, I also tried getting those points across over and over without any success. Carlos from Spain

I certainly support everybody's right to drive what they choose. After all this is America. And the tt has some wonderful qualites. But you guys sound like someone talking about what a good "personality" the fat girl has. This was a performance test. Period. The C&D article is on my lap. Th Z06 beats the tt in every aspect of the test except deceleration from inital top speed to first turn entry speed and last turn exit speed. What about that don't you understand. The vette is faster 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile, thru the road course, acceleration after the road course to 100, 110, 120 and decelertation from 120 to 0. Sounds like a pretty complete victory to me but then again I don't posess the deep understaning of these things that your average purist does. In comparing the stock 911 to the autothority, all of the "cospiracy" boils down one thing, 1.2 sec. slower pass on the road course for the autothority car. EVERY other acceleration number is superior. But since you guys breought it up, I do think there are some highly inflated HP numbers out ther on Porsches. George beat a 700 HP Powerhaus car with about 465 (at that time). No spray. Different horses? you bet. He also shattered a transmission gear that works in (supposed) 700 or 800 HP applications. Can you say bull****?

I've owned both a 996TT, and a couple of Corvettes. I'll admit, none have been the Z06, but for my point that's really irrelevant. At the end of the day, these are two different cars focused at two different market segments. The Z06 may be faster in all aspects than Porsche, but there are compromises made to get there. For instance, both my Corvettes have been rather loud inside while driving at highway speeds. Since the Z06 has thinner glass and less insolation, I'd expect this to be worse than the coupe/convertible. The Z06 has some definite suspension upgrades that the coupe/convertible can't compete with...even with the Z51 upgrade. Since I don't track (yet) my cars, I was looking for a good daily driver that I could take on the road for extended trips. For me, the 996 is the right car. I'm selling my Corvette this week. I've driven several different cars, and the 996 just "speaks" to me. I don't find myself looking for those extra tenths of a second going back and forth to work, but I do like the added luxury the Porsche adds over the Corvette. That's all that's being said. Even if you take the numbers as definitive, which car is right for each driver is still subjective. And still, if there was one perfect car, wouldn't ALMS/F1/etc. be boring?

Hey Carlos, maybe you just didn't understand my post, but that's ok. Just interested, does the issue of C&D you have show the 996TT at 100 mph at 82.7 sec total ET, and at 120 mph at 87.1 sec total ET? Mine does, and that's 4.4 sec to accelerate from 100-120 mph. See if the Z06 is listed at 100 mph 82.4 sec into the run, and at 120 mph 86.8 sec ET? That's 4.4 sec too. While it's a testament to the Z06's performance to equal the 996TT in accelaration in that specific speed range, it doesn't show that the Z06 had an "edge" or out accelerated the 996TT. That's what C&D's conclusion was though and they identify Cd as the reason. I thought maybe C&D was talking about the Cd impact from exit speed to 100 mph, but the 996TT averages 7.0882 mph/sec and the Z06 averages 7.0526 mph/sec. Slight advantage to the 996TT, but equal in my mind. I don't see a Cd impact there either.

Great post Tex. You apparently have very good taste in automobiles. Dock, all advantages were slight. And it wouldnt be the first time their interpertation of the results were a little confusing. Be that as it may, the results are clear. Also I'm not knocking Porshe. I'm a fan. Always have been. It just pisses me off when people can't admit that any car, any where, can do any thing better than a Porsche. And the 911 guys are the worst st this.

Carlos, if you think I can't admit it when "any car can do anything better than than a Porsche", then you've missed by a country mile. BTW, I don't make car choices based on magazine articles. But I do read things and ask myself "does this make sense" and "do the conclusions seem valid" based on the data/evidence/logic.

Dock if what you say is true then what about the everyday track THE STREET. A Z06 kicks the a$$ of a 996 and 993 twin turbo hands down. The C & D could be a little wrong lets just say it is, then how do you explain the street? just some food for thought. SWAMP MONSTER

Of a 996 and a 993TT...ok good...Chevy can beat a 4 year old turbo and a recent non turbo, non top of the line car with their new top of the line car. Besides, just check out the lap times from the Nurburgring. check em out Do you really think a vette with 70 more HP and suspension mods would be able shave a full minute of it's near 9 minute time???? The Z06 is a great car...but I dont think its quicker around the Nurburgring than a 996TT.

That's easy. In street encounters (and on the track for that matter)it's who's behind the wheel that that counts, given similar cars. (i.e. n/a in a '80 Volvo versus a '01 Cobra). Probably 90% of acceleration "tests" done from a stand still is the launch, and not all drivers are created equal in this area. Reaction time also plays into the equation. In a rolling encounter, it's even more difficult to say it was a clean run. When is the "fight" really on? In a lead/trail situation there could be a second or two difference in flooring it; if you're not right on the guys bumper or his exhaust isn't loud enough to hear, you have to go on exhaust smoke or a visual indication that there' a run going. Being in the wrong gear, or having to take the time to downshift(driver again) can make all the difference in the world too. It's not hard to fumble away a couple of seconds on the "street". Just how much faster was one car versus the other to begin with? A few tenths, half a second? In the Boxster S for example, a driver will give up about 3 sec for every gear he's out of "optimum". For example, 80-100 mph in sixth is about 3 sec slower than fourth, which is about 3 sec slower than third. Also, it can be hard to tell when one of the drivers "stops" running, resulting in false conclusions. For me at least, a car that may "win" in a street encounter, or in a magazine test, doesn't mean that car is "better" than the other car.

So if I follow your line of reasoning, Porsche drivers are generally not as good as Corvette drivers?

Nope, you don't follow my line of reasoning.

I've been reading this thread with great interest, and I honestly do not understand why some of you are so defensive about the new Z06. GM has made a world class sports car at a very good price. It isn't 1978 anymore, and Corvettes have come a long long way, more so relatively then Porsche, I believe. The C and D test has the slowest times I've seen for a 996TT, but at 3115 pounds and 405 horsepower, the Z06 is a fast car. And, it has quite an array of luxury features as well. Drive one with an open mind and you will be impressed, maybe not enough to buy one, but at least enough to admit that it’s one heck of a car for under $50k. I don't know much about these Nurburgring tests, but why would I trust these statistics any more then some other magazines I could quote from? Spend some time driving at track days and you will see that Porsches are not the only fast cars. I truly understand that you have a preference for the combination of style, character, engineering, and performance embodied in the 911 series, especially the turbo cars, but there really are other fast and desirable cars out there in the world. Jim

well said Jim. I made the original post that started this thread. I hope Porsche AG management gets the message........I know they read this stuff. The GT3 should have been brought into the USA.....that would have made the Z06 comparisons perhaps moot. A lot of guys are car snobs.....wouldnt be seen in a domestic made sportscar which is 100% stupid....but nevertheless their choice. I would love to have a fllet of cars in my garage from Vipers to Vettes to Porcshe race & street cars to Ferraris. Given value and wanting speed a Corvette Z06 "Coupe" deposit has been made.....and I keep the 993 and other toys when it comes in "if it comes in"! There is talk of 450HP small block Z06s comeing out soon. How can anyone lose EXCEPT if it snows.....and no Porsche even C4$ are good on 18" tires in any snow/icy conditions!!!!! Too bad the SALEEN S7R isnt priced at $125,000.......i would be in a second......who else would drive a SALEEN S7 IF YOU COULD BUY 1 FOR $100K TO $125K.? Are you in or out?

Jim and Club, your posts were like a breath of fresh air. Well said.

FWIW. .Just the fact that a $50,000 car can run with a $140K+ car says A lot. I would love to have a TT Porsche. Comparing a Z06 to a car three times as expensive is not a fair comparison. . . a Lingenfelter Twin Turbo vs a Twin Turbo Porsche are similar, however. http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages...ng_stageII.htm I agree with Dock in that the driver is more important than the car 99% of the time, no matter what kind of race. Many people that buy Vipers get in wrecks w/in one mile of driving off the lot. . reason is, they have a beast of a car, but lack the skill to operate it on the street (much less on a track). A lot of people slam vettes that have never even driven them(C5s in particular), and the same goes for slamming Porsches. I've driven 911s and 928s and I love them. To each their own. I, however, get tired of all the talk and then when I see a Porsche on the street, it's a different story. Twisties ahead or not, they know what will happen unless they're in a Twin Turbo. If anyone in the OKC area would like to prove me wrong at Hallet, an autocross, or Thunder Valley, please do. There are some very knowledgable people on this board. . but there are also some bench racers that don't know what they're talking about. This is your board, no disrespect, just my opinion.

And I 100% agree with Club and Jim. There are people on the vette boards that are snobs about driving vettes and slam the "clown shoe" viper, "rustangs", "ricers", etc. All performance cars have some sort of stereotype that goes with them. I want a fleet of crazy sports cars too. . 959, Callaway Sledgehammer, F1, F60, and the 6 figure SALEEN, etc. But, I don't have that kind of money.

Too bad the Corvette beats out the 996TT in the performance category. But I've owned Corvettes and they're like big boats in the sense that the two happiest days are the day you buy it and the day you sell it. I learned to hate my Corvette. Yes, performance was good. I even liked it better than a friend's Ferrari (okay, so I was stupid). But the Corvette is like every other American manufactured car - made not to last. A year after I bought it, things started breaking. One right after another. Look at the percentage of Porsches ever made that are still on the road. Now look at the percentage of Corvettes ever made that are still on the road. When I sell my 996, someone else will have many years of happiness with it and when they sell it, someone else will enjoy the same. So, right now, Porsche lags behind Corvettes in the performance department, but five years from now my 996 will still be going strong. Where will the Corvette be? My money went for the Porsche - a smart move, IMO. Besides, other than autocross, how many 996s (nonGT) or Z06s are really going to be raced?

While some good points have been made, I feel a few clarifications are in order. If you read the comparision article closely, you will note that ALL cars, including the powerful TUNER cars, had slow times--it was the conditions, not the cars. Porsche had a top car and a top driver there. This is a dead issue. No ringers were involved. The article put an exclaimation point on a HUGE problem with Porsche. For years now, the Porsches have been under-powered and over-priced. No way to suger-coat this, just an objective fact. The interior on the car is just not that nice, and the door slam is not that different. (I owned a 911 before). The Porsche also has nowhere near the "curb-appeal" of Ferrari. The Z06 has an excellent ride on the track and the street. I use my car as a daily driver. Stock, the 2002 Z06 and the 996TT are a dead heat for all practical purposes--it will come down to the driver. By adding $25k to the base price of the Z06 ($53k out the door) ($78K total invested), I have enhanced braking, harness bar, Sparco 6-point, Nakamichi stereo, and a drivable, smogable 600hp car. Yes, it is a Chevy and will never be a Porsche, but so what? The driving pleasure is awesome and I can put luggage and 2 sets of golf clubs in the trunk. In my one-person opinion, Porsche has lost all sight of the performance market and has a great deal of catch-up to do. A base price of $180K+ for the GT2 is nothing short of obscene. I really do love Porsches and racing (I track my car) so I would love to see some resurgence of the Porsche Marque--especially in terms of value. At $85K the GT2 is a reasonable (not great) value; at $180K+ (more likely $230K) it is... well,you know. To further drive home my point, see the whopping 15hp (crank) increase in 2003 for the 996! At least Porsche is working on getting V8s into the car soon. Porsche owners have a right to expect more--for less!

Three points... 1. A Corvette is very "car centered" automobile whereas 911's are very "driver centered"...when you sit in a vette, you are completely engulphed by the car...when you sit in a 911, it has been engineered to produce the optimal driving position, ie., you feel one with the car which is then transfered to the road...I have never been able to get beyond this glaring engineering fault which has characterized post '65 Corvettes...I could go on and on in the same vane but I will spare everybody the verbage... 2. Those who compare the cost of the Corvette and the 911 are doing so incorrectly...there is "use value" and then there is "money value"...the money value of the car is mostly determined by supply and demand...if Chevy thought they could get 911 prices, that's what they would charge...the use value of this type of cars is the pleasure one derives from it...this is totally individual (and perhaps somewhat social)...use value and money value sometimes have little baring on one another...consider a 100K home in Podunk, AK...the same home would be worth at least ten times that amount in San Fransisco although they have the same exact use value... 3. You people are thinking way too much go out and enjoy your car

If you believe that last load of BS, here's s statement for you. From Lou Rothman, owner of JR cigars, the largest cigar dist. on earth. "They've been making cigars since before Columbus got here. But it took untill just recently to find a fool to pay over ten dollars for one." If my language is not exact on the quote I appologize to Mr. Rothman. But I believe it to be correct and completely correct in spirit.

Whats so hard to understand about the last post, particularly the difference between use value and money value. I find it quite informative and on the money. I live in Northern Califorinia in your average "affordable" tract-housing. Put my house anywhere else in the states and it would cost 1/3 what it costs here. Is it worth it? Depends what you want out of life and what the market will bear. I've personally decided that the climate, number of hi-tech companies in the area etc.. make it worth-while. Apparently many other people have decided too as well or else housing wouldn't be sky high. I also know some people that have decided the cost of housing is not worth it. Its the same with the 911. It costs what the market will bear. Some people decide its worth it (even though a Kia will get you from A to B during a commute in roughly the same amount of tim), other people decide its not worth it. Even though the "use value" is the same the "money value" is high enough for some people to go out and buy a porsche. Seems pretty straight-forward to me. My non-porsche purist tiptronic cabriolet is certainly worth both its use-cost and monetary-cost.

Oh no! Don't get us started on the tiptronic transmission!

So's the cigar to the guy that forks over the money.

"Use value," smuse value! While it is true that everyone is entitled to like what they want for any reason or no reason at all (which is what I believe you are trying to say), this is really not the point being stressed here. The one poster likes his tiptronic car and that is fine. However, the point really under discussion is why Porsche has strayed from its former quest or mission statement to build the best, highest performing production cars at some semblance in value. (See post above). As for "car-centered," etc., are you sure that is just incense you are burining in your NorCal pad? The Z06 is very comfortable and has an excellent driving position and cockpit. Perhaps your are thinking about a Viper. Why don't we meet at Willow Springs road course and see which car feels better on the track and on the road to lunch? All that said, it is fine for everyone to like what they like. I for one would just like to be able to admire Porsche for more than its solid build quality.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JBH: <STRONG>I can't believe anyone would try to rationalize the results of the test. I know we all love Porsche, we don't seem to be listening. Porsche has told us over and over again they don't care about out-performing the best from Chevrolet, Mercedes, Audi, Ferrari, Dodge, or any other performance car manufacturer. Their only baseline is the previous model year. They strive to provide better handling, better performance, and more luxury than the prior year. We see the very evidence of this in the C&D article, in the fact they show no interest in racing programs, and they place so much emphasis the American market (Yes, we Americans are to blame for the SUV). It's like not being able to see someone's faults because you are blinded by love. Let's take a cold shower and wake up to the reality. Until they see their market share dropping to the likes of the Corvette, Viper, or other performance cars, they'll keep on do what makes them the most money.</STRONG>[/ Spot on JBH. Porsches (& the whole compay) IMO are getting more and more away from a 'real sports car' and going towards 'luxury sporty car' (sorry about those category names, couldn't fine better descriptions, I hope you know what I mean). I don't like what I'm hearing/seeing. I've always assured my friend (who has Vette) that porsche is 'real' spots car & ex. Vette is 'luxury sporty car' type of vechile. We agreed on that. But it seems that tables are turnig I'm afraid

Well, here's my (OT) .02 regarding the M-cars, having spent time in each of them..the E36 BMW M3 is one of the roughest riding cars I've been in, especially the sedan. The E46 M3 is TOO soft, it feels springy, 'floaty' and disconnected, along with overboosted power steering. The M5 has gobs of torque, but it's a pig in a corner, it feels heavy and it IS heavy. These are only MHO! Thanks, David

Porsche can make fast(er) cars that offer ZO6 performance all day long. They choose not too doit currently for the USA. The GT3 can have 400HP and is lightweight...I would like one of these. May the new 911 will have a V8 with some big *****. All Porsches are refined just give me a "steel- fist in a lightweight velvet glove"! No excuses ...2nd place is 1st loser. The Nurburgring fastest laptimes really dont signify anything for many cars for these simple honest reasons. Many manufacturers dont bring professional racing drivers , a crew, and raceengineers over the the old ring to get these special times as they dont value that as "marketing data" or of relevance in the big scheme of things! I love Porcshe cars and always will have one.....but if General Motors or Diamler Chrysler brought in professional drivers and Corvette Z06/CR5 and Vipers GTSr/GT2R....and had their engineers there like the Germans do all the time in perfect weather and steup conditions dont you agree that Ron Fellows and Olvier Berretta/Karl Wendlinger could post some outrageously fast top-lap times. Damn right they would. The Cayenne is late to market vis a vis SUV sales/marketing and growth curves. I hope Porcshe sells a ton of them.....make solid profits and then gets back into racing for all out wins and sells V8 GT3 911s and other fast lightweight cool cars. I think it will happen and make us proud.......if the Cayenne doesnt sell they retrench even further back on racing and Volkswagen will absorb Porsche. Lastly, many Porcshe cars ride very poorly....dont just slam Vettes/BMWs without knowledge and everyones "fee" of ride quality is different. Torsion bar equiped 911s up to 1989 didnt ride good at all.......new C5 vettes ride great....GT2 Porsche rides "poorly" many automotive writers have stated.......thats garbage the new GT2 is a pussycat and is stock!

Also remember that everything is relative. Somebody like that's never driven a Porsche and only driven Vettes may say that a Z06 is comfy. To her/him it is. No somebody else who just took a Z06 out for a demo ride but has lived his/her life driving Porsches, the Z06 may feel raw and uncomfortable. Everybody is talking from their own experiences and opinions. So most of the stuff we read we need to take with a grain of salt. Some of it with a full shaker.

OK, I have read some but not all of the "comments" in this thread. Bottom line for me is they parked the 'vettes at LeMans so they could actually finish under their own power. The teams raced the Porsches to the end. There in lies the difference for me. Commitment to the highest quality, longest lasting as opposed to those who believe a win at any cost is still as sweet. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to drive and the reverse should also be true. Porsche has proven themselves time and again in racing. When Chevy has as many wins, come on in and talk.

The C5R beat every car in every class of the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona this year. Maybe that was just luck though.

Pigface1, But the C5 sat in the pits for the last couple hours as they were worried about their tranny (I think). The class winning Porsche GT3RS wasn't far behind. I think if the Corvette had continued running it would have been lights out, (which is why they did what they did). Personally I think they took the cheap way out,racing is about risks and especially in endurance racing you try to minimize them but by simply sitting in the pits because they are afraid is BS. The vette did win though, no matter what one thinks of their tactics, but how many years did it take for them to build a car that was capable of finishing? I'd bet both my 993's that if you took four or five 996's, 993's and Z06's and ran a 24 hour endurance race their won't be any corvettes that last the full race. Greg

I'm in.

Well, as an owner of both I have say that the ride quality of the Z06 is excellent and definitely comparable to my 2000 996 cab. The combination of power and weight distribution is extremely refined and results in the 'vette feeling more comparable in size to the Porsche. I love both of them - unreservedly. They are different in driving experience both aurally and in the seat of your pants. I've got the Porsche for day to day & weekend fun and the Z06 for track days and the rest of the time that the Porsche isn't in the shop. (The Z06 would also make an ideal daily driver too - very fast one too.) No religion here ... just fun cars!

I'll keep that in mind next time I try to take a stock vehicle out to the track to race 24 hours straight. It is amazing, though, that the vette was so far ahead that it had the luxury to sit back and relax for a while. lol Don't make excuses, just say, "Good race" and get on with it.

WOW, this was a great thread. I actually read through every post. I wonder why it stopped!

GREAT STATS I wonder what type of Vette that is,,,405 HP ZO6??? hmmm, perhaps not!

Hi All, Reading through all the posts, I can only but say that JBH has 'the most accurate' comments in relation to what Porsche want to be perceived as. Once upon a time it, Porsche, was a �TINY� other German company making sports cars for anyone wanting a racing machine just to win on the track circuits time after time. They succeeded there admirably. Their record wins in sports car racing stands head and shoulders above all manufacturers and would probably never be equalled. That was then � when all Porsche wanted to do was make racing machines that did one thing very well...WIN! Today, in the new global economy, to succeed requires more than a racing heritage. More importantly to succeed as an independent car manufacturer requires open minded business planners who HAVE to take the company into new diverse markets, be seen as responsible and have mass market appeal- that is the only way an independent �TINY� other German company making sports can survive in today�s economy. The other option is to do what Aston Martin � Owned by Ford, Lambo � owned by Audi and Ferrari � owned by FIAT have done. Which is get taken over by people who are just interested in the bottom line figures � therefore if more BHP sells, then that is what they would put out irresponsibly. Now members, tell me, which one of you have a need for 400bhp +? I guess it helps to get home quicker on a 70mph or 50mph speedway ah? Honestly, who cares about a faster car than a Porsche, who cares that another �sports� car pulls more �Gs� in a controlled test environment. Reallllllllllllllly! When Porsche was turbo-charging race engines and achieving reliable cars with 1000BHP engines and winning all races, the competition got upset and introduced a limit in BHPs hence the different classes in a typical motorsport race. Let the others enjoy being irresponsible in this modern era putting BIG bhp cars out there without any real purpose especially as there are as many gullible buyers who believe that lighter cars with BIG bhp numbers are better, safer, quicker, more efficient etc. Porsche has not gone soft, they have simply gone from boy racer (1000BHP cars) to responsible, caring big player who needs not seek unwanted attention further but who can still show �newcomers� a thing or two when necessary � 550RS Syder (James Dean had one!), 2.7RS, 2.8RSR, 930 Turbo, 965 Turbo S, 993 Turbo S, GT2 (993), GT1 (996), GT3, GT2 (996) and GT, to name but a few! Now how many other car manufacturers can roll out such fine lines of unique products time and time again? The journey, my friends, has only just begun! There really is no subtitue for substance, pedigree and quality. Buy one, drive it and let others admire you as they do. It is really nice at the top! 996 C2 Cab � arrive in style because they know the game is over.

Observations from having both a 996 cab and an '02 Z06 is that there is a huge difference in refinement between the cars - not so much in the engine but defintiely in the suspension set up. The more miles I put on the Z06, particularly fast ones, you realise just how crude the Chevy suspension is. If you ignore the fact that the Z06 has a killer engine and is a torque monster, you'll rapidly find that the suspension setup is very loose and subject to torque lift under power. It can get pretty squirly at high speed with full throttle. This is definitely a car that needs some dialing out of the lift at speed (ground effects needed!). In contrast, my 996 gets more stable as the speed increases and never has that loose, almost out of control feeling that the Z06 exhibits. You can certainly hustle the Z06 to obscene speeds very quickly, but it's a lot more work on the twisty's. Mine's off to get it's suspension balanced before I put it in a ditch somewhere. Even in stock form, the 996 standard setup (on a cab even) is far superior on the road. Graham

Hi Graham, thanks for keeping this thread alive. I have never been willing to drive our Z06 hard enough on a public road to determine how much of a loose, or oversteer, handling charactersitic it has. I always run out of courage before the car runs out of grip. I find the car to have quite good road feel and balance. It is only on rough secondary roads where I find the stiffness can compromise a feeling of finese. I have not spent time in a 996 so I do not have the experience you have with the two cars. The 996 sounds like a fine handling machine. I did own a 98 M3 for a couple of years before trading it in on a Viper GTS. I see that you live in Vancouver Wa. Do you make it out to PIR for Porsche club or other track days? I make it out there from time to time to drive my Viper and Z28. Jim

Err no, try again. The Z06 is not, by any defintion, harsh. It may be many things, but it isn't harsh. Graham

I'm planning on attending events this year. In fact, the rationale behind getting the Z06 was to take advantage of Chevy's free money and get a track day car that wouldn't break the bank and that I could safely play without any regard for it's daily usage. I was always too worried about breaking things with my Ferrari's plus time is normally the issue. The 996 cab/X5 are my daily drivers. Hope to see you this year! There's certainly a decent Porsche/Corvette and Ferrari crowd up here in the NW. Graham

Graham, where are you Vancouver? I am in Salmon Creek.

Old Evergreen Highway, down by the river. I probably have WA's least managed/cared for piece of road since they annexed this area and built SR-14 in the '60s. I don't think it's been fixed since then. Graham

I posted on this topic on 8/14. I just got my 2002 996 coupe a couple of weeks ago. My Z06 will be here at the end of the month. As I said I would do-I cancelled my 2002 996TT order. The Z06 is an absolute animal and worth every penny. This thread is a testament to how good the Z06 really is. I think the 996TT owners have a great car-If they have any money left over buy a Z06 also and move on with your lives.

You're going to have a blast.... welcome to the club! The more I drive my Z06 the more I love it. Things to watch out for are nasty tramlining on the freeway (it likes the ruts) and the tyres are definitely more suited to dry weather than rain. I put a K&N in too as my only mod so far - definitely a cheap performance improvement, as if you needed one. Oh, and come on over to the z06vette.com forum too - lot's of drag racing junk there but useful stuff too. Graham

What is that "bump steer"...possibly? If so- That's not good,,,not good at all, especially bump steer at high speed "nasty" is a flat out understatement!

Congratulations, that's awesome. For those that talk about being unstable at high speeds, for less than $110K, Lingenfelter can build you a car that will go 225mph+ without monsterous ground effects. Some people complain about Porsche's over-steer problem as well. To each their own.

Graham and Pigface1: I just got my Z06 two days ago. It's absolutely incredible. A car I'm actually intimidated by. Definitely as close to a race car as you can get for the street. I'm actually surprized by how comfortable it actually is. I have to get rid of the 1-4 skipshift though. I got the quicksilver with the black interior. Oh excuse me I forgot this is a Porsche forum.

[quote]Originally posted by Riz: <strong>Graham and Pigface1: I just got my Z06 two days ago. It's absolutely incredible. A car I'm actually intimidated by. Definitely as close to a race car as you can get for the street. I'm actually surprized by how comfortable it actually is. I have to get rid of the 1-4 skipshift though. I got the quicksilver with the black interior. Oh excuse me I forgot this is a Porsche forum. </strong><hr></blockquote> Excellent!!! The first upgrade I always have to get with C5's is the CAGS defeat to fix the 1-4 low rev shift - $15 and you're sorted! I also replace the filter with a K&N which makes a difference even with the Z06. There's definitely room for both a 996 and a Z06 in the enthusiast's garage!! I like having the choice ... Z06 when it's dry but not sunny, 996 cab when the sun's out and I have an X5 for those 'other' days. It snowed here today and I was caught out in the 996 cab - it was rock solid without any drama whatsoever - glad I wasn't out in the Z06 when it happened though. Graham

[quote]Originally posted by Riz: <strong>Graham and Pigface1: I just got my Z06 two days ago. It's absolutely incredible. A car I'm actually intimidated by. Definitely as close to a race car as you can get for the street. I'm actually surprized by how comfortable it actually is. I have to get rid of the 1-4 skipshift though. I got the quicksilver with the black interior. Oh excuse me I forgot this is a Porsche forum. </strong><hr></blockquote> I have a 6 speed coupe, but w/ headers and air intake right around 395bph, so I know what you mean! You'll get used to it and be looking to beef it up some more eventually. lol The 1-4 shift (CAGS! it's generally called) can be taken out pretty easy. . I just got used to taking first gear above 2,000 rpms and that does the trick. Congrats again, and be careful! ps: If you're considering a performance mod but don't want to get too crazy, look into the Vortex Rammer. .it's a bottom feeder ram air for about $250. Best bang for the buck mod there is and it will add a legit 20rwhp. And don't forget to get a Ripper shifter!!