PCCBs - Page 4 - Porsche General - PistonHeads UK

Hey, after 5 years of happy 987 Boxster Spyder ownership, have just sold her and put a deposit down on a yellow 987 GT4 just in at OPC Bolton. It comes with PCCBs which I’m looking forward to but not knowing too much about them (apart from eye watering £££ replacements) can anyone advise what checks I should make sure are done and documentation like proof of disc thickness I should ask for?

I think the best you can do is research the kind of life they’ve had and check the surface finish. The service history might tell you if the car has been tracked heavily. Eg how many miles per set of tyres and same for pads. Then check the surface finish inside and out for any damage and compare to web photos. Get them to remove the wheels so you can have a really good look. Then hopefully buy and enjoy!

I believe the wear of the rotor is determined by weighing it and comparing this to the weight of the new part. There will be a not below figure that when the rotor weighs less than this it will require replacing. Essentially this is measuring the thermal decomposition of the ceramic disc and unlike a steel disc the thickness does not disclose how much service life is left. As previously mentioned otherwise check for chips and gouges in the rim which can be caused by trapped stones due to reduced clearance between pccb and rim.

With PCCBs wear is probably less of an issue than damage at lower mileages and you may be able to claim on your insurance if they get chipped or scored, but I'm sceptical that a wear item would be covered and the opposite side surely wouldn't be as they should be replaced in pairs. I'm in the "avoid PCCBs" camp as you may have guessed, and by your own admission you don't know much about them, so I would suggest you do some research and come to your own conclusions if you're concerned about the cost of replacements.

Twinfan said: I'm in the "avoid PCCBs" camp as you may have guessed, and by your own admission you don't know much about them, so I would suggest you do some research and come to your own conclusions if you're concerned about the cost of replacements. Indeed and only you can make your mind up if you want them. I too, would be less worried about wear as I've seen cars on over 100k with less than 50% gone. It's the risk of chips/damage to the disks. That said you'll get no brake dust on the alloys. If I found two identical cars with the spec I wanted one had steel and the other PCCB then I'd probably go with the latter but not to the expense of compromising on other options I wanted.

I’ve had pccbs on a couple of past Porsches and really loved them - no problems and all the benefits - especially for road use. Wear was minimal and any reputable insurer should replace them, in the unlikely event they ever got damaged. Worst case scenario is they pay for the value of the remaining life. Sadly, my current Porsche doesn’t have them, and I do notice the difference.

Koln-RS said: any reputable insurer should replace them, in the unlikely event they ever got damaged. er how do you work that out?

They are not covered under Porsche warranty so I'd be amazed if they are covered by an insurer. http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?p=1566630

BertBert said: Koln-RS said: any reputable insurer should replace them, in the unlikely event they ever got damaged. er how do you work that out? Because a comprehensive policy covers the vehicle against accidental damage If a rock goes through the windscreen, paintwork, running gear, etc then one should be able to make a claim, unless an item is specifically excluded. Neighbour of mine hit a pothole in her Macan, seriously damaging the n/s wheel, tyre and upright components. Her insurers paid for all new parts, and some matching parts for the offside including both tyres and brake discs Although not pccbs, they would have been replaced if needed.

Koln-RS said: Neighbour of mine hit a pothole in her Macan, seriously damaging the n/s wheel, tyre and upright components. Her insurers paid for all new parts, and some matching parts for the offside including both tyres and brake discs Although not pccbs, they would have been replaced if needed. In the UK? Which insurer?

All reputable U.K. insurers should cover the whole car against accidental damage . The usual exclusion is tyres and normal wear and tear. Truth is, they are very strong and won’t suffer damage in normal use. They’ve been optional and standard fitment on most high performance cars for many years and any issues are very isolated. Most people who have them, or have had them, seem to love them, myself included.

Koln-RS said: All reputable U.K. insurers should cover the whole car against accidental damage . The usual exclusion is tyres and normal wear and tear. Truth is, they are very strong and won’t suffer damage in normal use. They’ve been optional and standard fitment on most high performance cars for many years and any issues are very isolated. Most people who have them, or have had them, seem to love them, myself included. Brakes are consumables so damage from stone chips while driving, scoring or chipping the disc, could be classed as wear and tear. I don't think it's as black and white as you're claiming. I'll ask again - your Macan example. Was that in the UK? If so, which insurer? It would be good to have more details for reference

Might be they paid out as there was likely a chance of reimbursement from the council if a pothole caused that much damage?

Armitage.Shanks said: Might be they paid out as there was likely a chance of reimbursement from the council if a pothole caused that much damage? I claimed for a wheel, tyre and suspension geometry alignment off the council some 30 years ago. It took them 6 weeks to respond to my initial claim letter, and only after nearly five months of further phonecalls and letters and ultimately the threat of legal action, did they finally agree to pay for a new wheel and tyre (but not the alignment). I imagine insurance companies are now far more aware of how slow/inefficient the council/highways departments are at dealing with claims for pothole damage, and thus are far more mercenary in their dealings with council's legal departments as a result.

Koln-RS said: All reputable U.K. insurers should cover the whole car against accidental damage . The usual exclusion is tyres and normal wear and tear. Truth is, they are very strong and won’t suffer damage in normal use. They’ve been optional and standard fitment on most high performance cars for many years and any issues are very isolated. Most people who have them, or have had them, seem to love them, myself included. Agreed, though they can be damaged on the road by errant stones getting jammed between the caliper and disc, it's a rare occurrence, it's more much likely the edge of the disc will get chipped when the wheels are removed during service work/repairs or more likely by your local tyre fitter during tyre replacement or a puncture repair. It's imperative the two guide studs provided with PCCB equipped cars are ALWAYS used when removing and refitting the wheels. If the guide studs aren't present in the toolkit, buy a pair. They're less than £20, and far, far cheaper than a new pair of discs ... Edit to add image showing guide stud part number. Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 8th November 10:17

Slippydiff said: Koln-RS said: All reputable U.K. insurers should cover the whole car against accidental damage . The usual exclusion is tyres and normal wear and tear. Truth is, they are very strong and won’t suffer damage in normal use. They’ve been optional and standard fitment on most high performance cars for many years and any issues are very isolated. Most people who have them, or have had them, seem to love them, myself included. Agreed, though they can be damaged on the road by errant stones getting jammed between the caliper and disc, it's a rare occurrence, it's more much likely the edge of the disc will get chipped when the wheels are removed during service work/repairs or more likely by your local tyre fitter during tyre replacement or a puncture repair. It's imperative the two guide studs provided with PCCB equipped cars are ALWAYS used when removing and refitting the wheels. If the guide studs aren't present in the toolkit, buy a pair. They're less than £20, and far, far cheaper than a new pair of discs ... Edit to add image showing guide stud part number. Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 8th November 10:17 The 996GT3 with PCCB's came with two guides .... the GT4 six years later did not. I had to buy them !

ChrisW. said: The 996GT3 with PCCB's came with two guides .... the GT4 six years later did not. I had to buy them ! There’s method in their madness Chris. It’s a great way to drum up some business for the spares dept !! What’s a pair of front PCCB’s for the GT4. ? £7K ?

How very cynical of you

Sorry ... 11 years later ... but of course the GT4 PCCB's were significantly cheaper as standard that the GT3 direct equivalents so ? 'Still a short cut for a cost of Euros10 ??

Budweiser said: How very cynical of you So true But my cynicism pales into insignificance when compared to that all too frequently displayed by the bean counters at VAG ...

Slippydiff said: Agreed, though they can be damaged on the road by errant stones getting jammed between the caliper and disc, it's a rare occurrence, it's more much likely the edge of the disc will get chipped when the wheels are removed during service work/repairs or more likely by your local tyre fitter during tyre replacement or a puncture repair. It's imperative the two guide studs provided with PCCB equipped cars are ALWAYS used when removing and refitting the wheels. If the guide studs aren't present in the toolkit, buy a pair. They're less than £20, and far, far cheaper than a new pair of discs ... Edit to add image showing guide stud part number. Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 8th November 10:17 First thing I did when I got my T with PCCBs was to order those. If discs get damaged during service or tyre change work, then the outfit concerned is liable for putting it right. They'll be calling on their insurers...

SpyderMatt said: Hey, after 5 years of happy 987 Boxster Spyder ownership, have just sold her and put a deposit down on a yellow 987 GT4 just in at OPC Bolton. It comes with PCCBs which I’m looking forward to but not knowing too much about them (apart from eye watering £££ replacements) can anyone advise what checks I should make sure are done and documentation like proof of disc thickness I should ask for? OPC will give you 1/2 years warranty with the car i'm assuming so all is covered. I've run PCCB's since 2016 on my last 2 911's. From a practical stand point the best benefit daily is the lack of brake dust. 1000 kilometre trip to the Ring and the wheels are still relatively clean. As a brake set up you'll love it. Steels start at optimum and reduce efficiency from then on. PCCB's get better the harder you work them.

Illya Kuryakin said: OPC will give you 1/2 years warranty with the car i'm assuming so all is covered. Not everything is covered, and brakes are classed as consumables...

Another huge advantage is no brake disc corrosion. My GT4 lives out 24/365.

Thanks all. I’m coming round to the idea here. Car is checking out well as it goes thru the 111 point check. No Rev ranges even in range 1 so not thrashed even sporadically, so I think if the car is passed by OPC and the disc thickness confirmed then we’ll go with the PCCBs and hopefully have no problems. Test drive on Saturday and all being well will seal the deal.

ChrisW. said: Another huge advantage is no brake disc corrosion. My GT4 lives out 24/365. My GT3 is garaged, but when it’s washed, I’ve got to take it up road and back to dry off the discs or they rust.

Been there ... the worst was a 3.2 Boxster where I could not stop the inner rear discs rusting ... whatever I did !

ChrisW. said: Been there ... the worst was a 3.2 Boxster where I could not stop the inner rear discs rusting ... whatever I did ! Must have been particularly bad on that model - had mine replaced without quibble under warranty at 9 months old (those were the days!) - PCCBs on my Spyder are great, thoroughly recommended.

Back to the original question about assessing PCCB life. From 981/991 generation cars on, measuring rotor thickness (very difficult) or weighing rotor mass (just as difficult to do to the required accuracy) is no longer the approved way to assess rotor life. And, of course, visual inspection of the rotor surfaces (other than for obvious cases of damage or edge chipping) provides no reliable indication of life remaining. Instead, each Porsche Centre has a test tool or meter that allows it to carry out a simple test to measure remaining carbon content at three points on each rotor (the carbon is oxidised during use, reducing carbon content in the matrix core and hence overall disc mass). The initlal (new) carbon content figures and the minimum allowed after use is laser etched at these three measurement points on the rotor bells and are easy to see. The tool or test meter is called Carboteq (known within OPCs as tool VAS6813) and is generally available only as a trade purchase for around £7000 - so out of reach of normal owners (unless we club together and share it around?!). Google it or use this link: https://www.screeningeagle.com/en/products/carbote... The test procedure is simplicity itself, though it needs to be carried our carefully to get accurate results. Ideally, rotors should be removed from the vehicle for testing as the presence of other metals nearby (including dust shields) can affect the outcome. Results are calculated and expressed as simple "% life used" / "% life remaining" figures. It's a very quick test to carry out. I have been quoted less than £100 by a local OPC to carry out the test on a complete set of four rotors on the assumption that I bring in the discs ready to test. More information on using the Carboteq tool is here: https://vimeo.com/170465302 Interesting to see how the world moves on! James Edited by short-shift on Friday 12th November 10:24

Think I'll stick to Alcon steels and my trusty wheel tapper.

SpyderMatt said: Thanks all. I’m coming round to the idea here. Car is checking out well as it goes thru the 111 point check. No Rev ranges even in range 1 so not thrashed even sporadically, so I think if the car is passed by OPC and the disc thickness confirmed then we’ll go with the PCCBs and hopefully have no problems. Test drive on Saturday and all being well will seal the deal. Just curious - did you go ahead? James

Hi People The disc below appears to have some etching/scoring marks but all apparently in spec and passed the 111 check. What are your thoughts?

MCPZ said: Hi People The disc below appears to have some etching/scoring marks but all apparently in spec and passed the 111 check. What are your thoughts? If you're in doubt, I'll swap you (with cash your way) for a set of steels with black calipers and less than 1000 miles on the clock... You might think I'm jesting but, really, I'm not! James

short-shift said: Just curious - did you go ahead? James I didn’t but not down to PCCBs that I kinda want now. On a daily lookout for the right GT4, and there’s pretty regular stock coming up so should be in something fairly soon, winter or not.

MCPZ said: Hi People The disc below appears to have some etching/scoring marks but all apparently in spec and passed the 111 check. What are your thoughts? Oh, you call that scoring ? Hold my beer …

135K mile reasonably spiritedly driven Cayenne V8 diesel. Original PCCBs, just fitted 4th set of front pads. I think on on the third set of rears too, which will need doing in the next 10K. Last weighed by the OPC at 100K miles and were 50g over the minimum. I wish I knew what they weighed when new! They've been cost neutral, if I was on steels, I'd be on at least my third set of discs, if not more. They're great brakes.

A Cayenne Diesel is the not where I'd expect to find PCCBs.

Zarco said: A Cayenne Diesel is the not where I'd expect to find PCCBs. They work well on a daily. If you’re clocking up a lot of miles, you get value out of the very low wear and there’s also a huge reduction in dust on wheels.

Just collected my 981 GTS and it has PCCBs on it. Alex at RPM Technik advised me that the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels and store the carbons for sale/track day/preference etc. Apparently is about £1500 for the switch, which given the cost associated with replacing a disk seems like a bargain. Will be booking mine in for this ASAP!

Swine Enthusiast said: Just collected my 981 GTS and it has PCCBs on it. Alex at RPM Technik advised me that the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels and store the carbons for sale/track day/preference etc. Apparently is about £1500 for the switch, which given the cost associated with replacing a disk seems like a bargain. Will be booking mine in for this ASAP! Saying that "the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels" is quite telling...

Are the calipers different other than the paint colour?

Twinfan said: Saying that "the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels" is quite telling... I suppose it is. Prudent if the car you really want has PCCBs but you don't want to risk taking out a small mortgage to replace them!

What is the point of speccing PCCBs in the first place, in that case?

Implus1 said: What is the point of speccing PCCBs in the first place, in that case? Resale, for the Cars and Coffee and Kensington High Street buyers

Implus1 said: What is the point of speccing PCCBs in the first place, in that case? I suppose if you want to track the vehicle?

Krikkit said: Are the calipers different other than the paint colour? You can switch the discs and pads and keep the yellow calipers so posing duties aren't hurt

Twinfan said: Swine Enthusiast said: Just collected my 981 GTS and it has PCCBs on it. Alex at RPM Technik advised me that the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels and store the carbons for sale/track day/preference etc. Apparently is about £1500 for the switch, which given the cost associated with replacing a disk seems like a bargain. Will be booking mine in for this ASAP! Saying that "the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels" is quite telling... wot a load of tosh !! I respect RPM but thats total garbage, I have PCCB on my car and go to loads of various Pork meets and have NEVER seen one converted ! not saying people dont do it but a majority ?? nope love mine, when I purchased I literally ended up viewing on the same day 2 exact spec cars apart from one had PCCB and it was putting me off in case I was ever unfortunate enough to need a new disc (or 4 ) my car is not known for its excess braking tolerance so being able to stop on a sixpence and no dust is great and if the worse ever happens you can get out of jail by swopping to steel and it's an instant big calliper kit, 4 years on no regrets Edited by Mogsmex on Tuesday 7th December 12:25

Mogsmex said: wot a load of tosh !! I respect RPM but thats total garbage, I have PCCB on my car and go to loads of various Pork meets and have NEVER seen one converted ! not saying people dont do it but a majority ?? nope love mine, when I purchased I literally ended up viewing on the same day 2 exact spec cars apart from one had PCCB and it was putting me off in case I was ever unfortunate enough to need a new disc (or 4 ) my car is not known for its excess braking tolerance so being able to stop on a sixpence and no dust is great and if the worse ever happens you can get out of jail by swopping to steel and it's an instant big calliper kit, 4 years on no regrets Edited by Mogsmex on Tuesday 7th December 12:25 You can keep the yellow calipers so unless you're up against the alloys, staring at the disc, how would you know?

Mogsmex said: wot a load of tosh !! I respect RPM but thats total garbage, I have PCCB on my car and go to loads of various Pork meets and have NEVER seen one converted ! not saying people dont do it but a majority ?? nope love mine, when I purchased I literally ended up viewing on the same day 2 exact spec cars apart from one had PCCB and it was putting me off in case I was ever unfortunate enough to need a new disc (or 4 ) my car is not known for its excess braking tolerance so being able to stop on a sixpence and no dust is great and if the worse ever happens you can get out of jail by swopping to steel and it's an instant big calliper kit, 4 years on no regrets Do you track your car? RPM do a lot of work with owners who use their cars hard so the majority of cars they see may well be PCCB converted. Swapping to steel is fine if you're not running the extended Porsche warranty, so as always it's horses for courses

Twinfan said: Mogsmex said: wot a load of tosh !! I respect RPM but thats total garbage, I have PCCB on my car and go to loads of various Pork meets and have NEVER seen one converted ! not saying people dont do it but a majority ?? nope love mine, when I purchased I literally ended up viewing on the same day 2 exact spec cars apart from one had PCCB and it was putting me off in case I was ever unfortunate enough to need a new disc (or 4 ) my car is not known for its excess braking tolerance so being able to stop on a sixpence and no dust is great and if the worse ever happens you can get out of jail by swopping to steel and it's an instant big calliper kit, 4 years on no regrets Do you track your car? RPM do a lot of work with owners who use their cars hard so the majority of cars they see may well be PCCB converted. Swapping to steel is fine if you're not running the extended Porsche warranty, so as always it's horses for courses Agree with Twinfan; go to track days, rather than meets (not to disparage meets - each to their own etc.) and you'd see a different mix of cars and ideas.

Swine Enthusiast said: Just collected my 981 GTS and it has PCCBs on it. Alex at RPM Technik advised me that the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels and store the carbons for sale/track day/preference etc. Apparently is about £1500 for the switch, which given the cost associated with replacing a disk seems like a bargain. Will be booking mine in for this ASAP! Ridiculously risk averse? Sounds like a rare even only posted on the internet by a handful of people vs thousands with no issues. TX.

Swine Enthusiast said: You can keep the yellow calipers so unless you're up against the alloys, staring at the disc, how would you know? I'm pretty nerdy and I look in detail at cars........... carbon discs are pretty obvious when you stand next to a car Twinfan said: Do you track your car? RPM do a lot of work with owners who use their cars hard so the majority of cars they see may well be PCCB converted. Swapping to steel is fine if you're not running the extended Porsche warranty, so as always it's horses for courses I dont track this car, but have done plenty of track days in other cars so it's not an Alien enviroment for me a good point as raised is maybe RPM do see more owners of a track persuasion ? I'm not saying it's not a thing with some people swopping to discs it must be or the kits wouldnt be out there and available. My issue was the statement that the majority of owners binning them off for steel I cant agree with or I feel I would have seen at least one if the majority are going that route........

Mogsmex said: Swine Enthusiast said: You can keep the yellow calipers so unless you're up against the alloys, staring at the disc, how would you know? I'm pretty nerdy and I look in detail at cars........... carbon discs are pretty obvious when you stand next to a car Twinfan said: Do you track your car? RPM do a lot of work with owners who use their cars hard so the majority of cars they see may well be PCCB converted. Swapping to steel is fine if you're not running the extended Porsche warranty, so as always it's horses for courses I dont track this car, but have done plenty of track days in other cars so it's not an Alien enviroment for me a good point as raised is maybe RPM do see more owners of a track persuasion ? I'm not saying it's not a thing with some people swopping to discs it must be or the kits wouldnt be out there and available. My issue was the statement that the majority of owners binning them off for steel I cant agree with or I feel I would have seen at least one if the majority are going that route........ Plenty of regular track-dayers with PCCB - swap out the OEM rotors for Surface Transform Carbon Rotors or Steel Aftermarket options like PFC, Alcon, GiroDisc or Essex Racing/AP

Swine Enthusiast said: Just collected my 981 GTS and it has PCCBs on it. Alex at RPM Technik advised me that the majority of PCCB owners switch to steels and store the carbons for sale/track day/preference etc. Apparently is about £1500 for the switch, which given the cost associated with replacing a disk seems like a bargain. Will be booking mine in for this ASAP! Are the GTS PCCB's the same size as the GT4 ? 410 and 380mm ?? Either way, I think you would need to do a lot of track days for this to become a problem and it would be a shame to lose the advantages of PCCB's if not likely to be a problem .... I assume that they are in good condition now ?

GTS PCCBs are smaller, Chris.

Twinfan said: GTS PCCBs are smaller, Chris. Thanks, I've just got the car so have zero clue on the exact brake specs.

Mogsmex said: I dont track this car, but have done plenty of track days in other cars so it's not an Alien enviroment for me a good point as raised is maybe RPM do see more owners of a track persuasion ? I'm not saying it's not a thing with some people swopping to discs it must be or the kits wouldnt be out there and available. My issue was the statement that the majority of owners binning them off for steel I cant agree with or I feel I would have seen at least one if the majority are going that route........ Sorry if I wasn't clear, Alex never said owners bin them off. Just that they take them off and store them until they wish to use them i.e. for track days or road trips etc. They keep the discs just swap out to save a nasty, expensive accident.

ChrisW. said: Are the GTS PCCB's the same size as the GT4 ? 410 and 380mm ?? Either way, I think you would need to do a lot of track days for this to become a problem and it would be a shame to lose the advantages of PCCB's if not likely to be a problem .... I assume that they are in good condition now ? They are in great condition, I think it's more I don't want to catch some bad luck via our pot holed roads and crack a disc or something. The brakes are wicked sharp and bitey, really good but I'll never need that power on the road!

Swine Enthusiast said: ChrisW. said: Are the GTS PCCB's the same size as the GT4 ? 410 and 380mm ?? Either way, I think you would need to do a lot of track days for this to become a problem and it would be a shame to lose the advantages of PCCB's if not likely to be a problem .... I assume that they are in good condition now ? They are in great condition, I think it's more I don't want to catch some bad luck via our pot holed roads and crack a disc or something. The brakes are wicked sharp and bitey, really good but I'll never need that power on the road! Might be talking it up, but I've done over 30k miles in 981 GTS's on PCCB's (only one trackday), had multiple tyre changes & sets of pads without any issue whatsoever. When I had a GT3 with steels I fitted ST Carbon discs and I've just bought a 7 year old GT3 with ceramics. I think the forums exaggerate the issues with PCCB's, in my experience they are superb on or off track. Ignore the tiny percentage who post and drive your car as it came. If you have any worry about any topic the internet is the place to fuel it perhaps?

I think the context was… whether or not it was true that people do take the OEM PCCB rotors off for extended track use. Many people do for a variety of reasons, also many don’t. As always down to the individual to make their own choice, wallet and risk appetite.

Swine Enthusiast said: You can keep the yellow calipers so unless you're up against the alloys, staring at the disc, how would you know? Are you saying you do not know the difference between carbon discs and steel?

Swine Enthusiast said: They are in great condition, I think it's more I don't want to catch some bad luck via our pot holed roads and crack a disc or something. The brakes are wicked sharp and bitey, really good but I'll never need that power on the road! Have had 6 sets of ceramics on different cars and never had a problem with chips or cracks on the road.Warm engine up and give them a couple of hard stops 70-30, and away you go. The ceramics also give you a better feel for the car, makes the steering more precise and gives you more confidence. Edited by Melvynr on Tuesday 7th December 20:06

Swine Enthusiast said: Twinfan said: GTS PCCBs are smaller, Chris. Thanks, I've just got the car so have zero clue on the exact brake specs. 991 GT3s and all GT4s have 410mm and 390mm discs in PCCB format, with six-pot calipers up front and 4-pots in the rear. 981 GTSs with PCCBs have 4-pot calipers all round and are 350mm front and rear.

robj4 said: Might be talking it up, but I've done over 30k miles in 981 GTS's on PCCB's (only one trackday), had multiple tyre changes & sets of pads without any issue whatsoever. When I had a GT3 with steels I fitted ST Carbon discs and I've just bought a 7 year old GT3 with ceramics. I think the forums exaggerate the issues with PCCB's, in my experience they are superb on or off track. Ignore the tiny percentage who post and drive your car as it came. If you have any worry about any topic the internet is the place to fuel it perhaps? Thanks, I appreciate your comments and I'm probably just being an absolute baby! I do also love the yellow calipers.

Melvynr said: Are you saying you do not know the difference between carbon discs and steel? I was being sarcastic. Hence the wink.

Swine Enthusiast said: I was being sarcastic. Hence the wink.

Thanks Twinfan I personally would keep them on the car ... less brake dust, better steering feel and handling, no disc corrosion ... and to my eye they look great ! Doing regular track days in my Cayman R they lasted over 30,000 miles before they were worn out ... and I worked them very hard. Regarding damage ... this is only really a "potential" during wheel changes, and the aluminium disc protector rods are the solution in this scenario. The only downside I found was that if the car was not used for some days and the discs were wet, they did seem to absorb a small amount of water which made them slow to work the first time ... hence I used to warm up the brakes as well as the engine !

ChrisW. said: Thanks Twinfan I personally would keep them on the car ... less brake dust, better steering feel and handling, no disc corrosion ... and to my eye they look great ! Doing regular track days in my Cayman R they lasted over 30,000 miles before they were worn out ... and I worked them very hard. Regarding damage ... this is only really a "potential" during wheel changes, and the aluminium disc protector rods are the solution in this scenario. The only downside I found was that if the car was not used for some days and the discs were wet, they did seem to absorb a small amount of water which made them slow to work the first time ... hence I used to warm up the brakes as well as the engine ! I’d suggest it was the pads that were hydroscopic, not the discs Chris.

I did find my PCCBs a bit recalcitrant until warm. Never considered the damp, but only kept them on the car for a few months. As for damage, I have heard of other people chipping discs when cars go into the gravel on track, but have no personal experience of that.

I had assumed it was the discs but of course it could be the pads Is hygroscopic pads a known issue ?

A brakepad absorbing water?Wow Wow Wow, you think you hear it all.

Bit of an random post to resurrect an old thread - does anyone have any idea how much in weight a fairly worn ceramic rotor would weigh compared to a brand new one? I can't imagine any ceramic rotor actually ends up wearing anything like as much as an iron rotor which clearly wears thinner over time and for the PCCBs the moment you lose the hardened coating the rotor is buggered anyway and I very much doubt the ceramic rotor is much thinner at the end of it's life. Just as a comparison as I've just weighed a new 380mm Surface Transform rotor vs a used 2006 spec PCCB of the same size albeit with a very slightly different hat and the ST rotor is about 5% heavier and I'm curious what differential in weight usage might have made.

Another contribution….

isaldiri said: Bit of an random post to resurrect an old thread - does anyone have any idea how much in weight a fairly worn ceramic rotor would weigh compared to a brand new one? The current generation PCCBs have original and minimum permitted mass figures etched onto the hats. From memory, the reduction in mass allowed for the front (410mm) discs is 85g and for a rear disc (390mm) is 60g. Of course, the recognised way to determine life used/remaining these days on PCCB rotors is to use the Carboteq tool which measures the amount of carbon remaining in the core matrix (the original levels reduce as the carbon is oxidised with use). Again, the original and minimum allowable figures are etched onto the top hats to allow accurte measurement at three points around the rotor periphery. James

short-shift said: The current generation PCCBs have original and minimum permitted mass figures etched onto the hats. From memory, the reduction in mass allowed for the front (410mm) discs is 85g and for a rear disc (390mm) is 60g. Of course, the recognised way to determine life used/remaining these days on PCCB rotors is to use the Carboteq tool which measures the amount of carbon remaining in the core matrix (the original levels reduce as the carbon is oxidised with use). Again, the original and minimum allowable figures are etched onto the top hats to allow accurte measurement at three points around the rotor periphery. James Ah very useful to know that. that's a very low amount of mass reduction actually then, much appreciated for that.

short-shift said: The current generation PCCBs have original and minimum permitted mass figures etched onto the hats. From memory, the reduction in mass allowed for the front (410mm) discs is 85g and for a rear disc (390mm) is 60g. Of course, the recognised way to determine life used/remaining these days on PCCB rotors is to use the Carboteq tool which measures the amount of carbon remaining in the core matrix (the original levels reduce as the carbon is oxidised with use). Again, the original and minimum allowable figures are etched onto the top hats to allow accurte measurement at three points around the rotor periphery. James That's interesting, as per my posts on page 2, my Cayenne front PCCBs were 50g over the minimum at 100k miles according to the OPC, but I didn't know what they started out at.