Oilsafe kit (scavenge pump improvement) for 987 - 997

I fitted to my 987S boxster with 3.8 X51 engine, an oil safe kit, in order to cure oil starvation. The kit is develloped from TTP (ww.t-t-p.de), it costs 1100euro, net price. It consists of a hjeavy duty external sump which sends the oil to the other side of the engine when the car is cornering (especially left side corners). I asked him about manthey's oilsafe kit and he told me that his kit (TTP's kit) is the same but TTP uses bigger oil pumps so that he can acieve more oil pressure. It is the same kit used in the Nurburing 24hour race with a Boxster . I attach pictures of the installation.

Very nice. Thank you for sharing. Can you share a brief list of what the kit comes with?

An external pump, pipping, I do not know what else honetsly. Contact him if you wish, he can explain. I also fitted suncoast 's X51 oil pan, which is not astandard in e.8 X51 in europe and oil pan extencion.

I'm not seeing this product on the TTP website. Does anyone else have any additional or updated information on sourcing, product description, pricing, etc.? Thanks, Andy

Andy, there are more details here, that a friend in Germany obtain from TTP http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxs...yman-boxster-tech/30204-causes-m97-21-engine-failure-post341135.html#post341135

Thanks Gilles. I was a little confused, as the pictures show an external Pump, not an external Sump. This helps clarify. Perhaps the thread name could be edited to clarify?

I agree. I thought the same thing when I was reading this. I have changed the name.

Here is some information I just received from TTP (which included the same photo as posted above): Hi Andy, this pump is made for track use of a Boxster or Cayman . Enclosed picture gives you an idea what we deliver. The installation takes approx 5 hours. We can deliver from stock for EURO 1.450,00, shipping approx EURO 200,00. Our system consists a 2nd return oilpump which is driven by the original return oilpump in your cylinderhead. The problem of a Boxster/Cayman is, driving fast in left corners. The oil in the cylinderhead goes, because of zentifugal force to the front of the right cylinderhead. The original return pump cannot bring back the oil to the sump, because it sucks air. When there is not enough oil in the sump, the engine oilpump sucks air and your engine dies. Our oilreturn pump is connected to the front of the cylinderhead where the oil is, while cornering. So the oil can come back to the sump in this way, as our oilpump can catch the oil. Best regards Ferdinand Pietz ---TTP--- TTP Automotive GmbH Turbo Technik Pietz Pullach 4b 83059 Kolbermoor Geschäftsführer: Ferdinand Pietz Tel: +49-8061-3 66 66 Fax: +49-8061-3 66 55 Mail: [email removed] Web: TTP Automotive GmbH Turbo Technik Pietz Registergericht Traunstein HR-Nr.: HRB17794

I just received my Kit from TTP, will be installing it next week and then back to the track after a good breakin of the new engine. -Kevin

I have been using the kit from TTP and I am very p[leased. I have done up to now 4.000hard km and I have not broken any engine yet... . I have also fitted a gauge to check the oil pressure and I will be visiting the track at some point to see what is going on in extreme conditions, but I do believe everything is solved now as the oil pressure nvever drops less then 2bar, even in long tight corners

Install time of 5 hours? Total? Or is is 5 hours with an engine that is outside of the car? $2500 US for parts, and at least $500 for labor $3000 US better put in the MkII 320 HP CS cookie jar? Assuming the DFI engine has solved the problem. That is a much higher percentage of the overall cost of the vehicle in the US, so I suspect that it will get more use in other countries. Makes a lot of sense in Greece, for example, where the car is literally twice as expensive. Interesting stuff.

I shall report in this topic as well that I have used this system once with slick tires and twice with hoosier r6 and I havew had no problems at all, no drop in oil pressure and engine failure whatsoever. Furthermore, in this track I had my engine destroyed at the very first time I tried my on the track, before installing this system, so this is a huge improvement. Dane, I do not know ehther 987.II with slicks will work, despite the 5 oil pumps. The problem of the car is at the return pump in left corners, I trully do not know whether Gen II have solved this. Trial and error is the way I think... By the way you are right about the double price in Greece...but in any case I have paid to much money on my car by now, 3.8 X51 engine and everything fromt Tarrett, JIC Cross supencion, Quaife LSD , and muich much more, do not come standard even in GEN II ! SO I needed to solve the issue... I want to thank TTP for constructing this pump, my car was the first car who tried it and thank GOD I can at last use my car as hard as I wish!

Is it really just $3000 for the newer CS engine? If so, why would anyone consider even putting an oil system solution in place? Would the Gen 2 CS engine fit in my 987 boxster S ?

No he is saying you could put that money in a cookie jar and save it towards a newer engine/car, not that it only costs $3k.

Aha! I thought that maybe 'cookie jar' was a term of endearment for the Porsche engines.......as in they sometimes chuck their cookies out

Agree with you that this pump is the ticket for a 3.8 install or a turbo or any Gen 1 that has had a lot of money in mods added whose owner is desirous of running hard on a track. It's a lot of money, but so is a new engine...and it can and does happen a lot! This is an expensive ounce of prevention. I've got a deep sump with swirl pots, but I like this solution much better. I'm saving up. Two things: 1. The Gen II Cayman is the base for CaymanSpec racing. Those cars are really built up and the stock oiling system is used. They have had no oiling failures. 2. TPC promises to have a kit ready soon for a few less dollars. I'd love to see TCP or TTP do a group buy on these kits. Nothing more worthwhile for the Cayman enthusiast. The only problem with it is that, when you install it, the car runs the same. You don't "feel" like you've got anything for your money.

Our system is not like the one that TTP is delivering... TTP is an actual pump. Our system works as a collector for a failed VOS blow by. It is currently installed on 15+ cayman turbo cars. As of right now we dont plan on making a pump like system like TTP is selling(which is very nice btw).

This begs the question.... I've got an '06 with an extended oil sump with baffles, a Motorsport VOS, a front mounted power steering cooler and an underdrive pulley. Is this enough??? If I was putting a turbo system in it, would you recommend anything else??? I want to be able to track this car without concern for engine oiling problems. I've been waiting for your kit to come out because I thought it would be as reliable as TTP at a lower price point...and that it would WORK because I trust you guys. Thanks,

We dont recommend installing the X51 VOS as the 3.8L engine block is different from the 3.4L block... The X51 VOS is multi chambered and does a fantastic job in aiding with oil ingestion, however it does not assist in oil starvation(on a 3.4) as it makes the oil travel through different passages before returning to the sump. What we have created is an oil recovery system that is capable of catching the oil that has passed through the VOS and returns it, via suction, back to the sump of the engine. We have not created an OIL SAFE system. What we have done is cured oil ingestion while safely returning the oil back to the sump, so it will not starve the engine in high G turns... I assume you will all have many questions so feel free to comment.

Casey, I have a MY2008 Gen I with a 3.4L. Does installing your system eliminate the oil starvation issue? It almost sounds as if your system was developed to solve a different problem (oil blow-by, with smoke out the tailpipes) as opposed to specifically solving the left bank oil starvation problem. I know these problem are somewhat related but I worry that just resolving the blow-by issue might not be enough to ensure positive oil pressure at the forward left cylinder head. Any clarity you can provide me on this issue would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Mark

Of all of the caymans that we have ever worked on we have only installed 1 oil safe TTP kit. Bruce wanted it on his car as he had a failure. Bruce's car is the only car that we have ever experienced that has had a failure... Will we ever experience another one that will have a failure? Probably. If you are looking for me to say that our system will make the engine completely bullet proof and we will warranty your engine due to failure if it has our system on it... I cant, and we wont. From our experience and from our years of racing the m96 and m97 engines, we find that our fix for some of the oiling issues is a good one. Does it make your whole engine a dry sump and ready to lap LeMans for 24 hours? No... Will any add on parts do that for your car? No. Bruce's Car has both teh TTP kit on it and our Track Pack... So we will all keep a close eye on him as he pounds his car around the north east.

I don't think any of us are expecting that an add-on system will "bullet proof" our engines. There are so many things that can go wrong with an engine. However, we are focusing on one specific problem - the oiling starvation/ingestion issue , and I think it's fair to ask the question if the system solves the issue or is just a band-aid/hopeful idea. TTP claims (and openly uses the word) their system is a "solution" to the oil ingestion/starvation issue. In my mind, solution means solved. They ran the system in 24-hour Lemans and that would seem to be good data? I'm not particularly sold on TTP or any other supplier, but will ultimately gravitate to the one that makes the most compelling, fact-based solution. Either this issue is something that can be confidently resolved or it's not, yet so many 3rd party manufacturers dance around the question......it's hardly confidence inspiring. Either claim that it fixes the issue or don't sell the ' dreams and hopes enclosed part ' that may end up not working. .

What car was running a 3.4L that ran in Lemans? The 3.4 M97 is quite different from a 3.8L. We fixed one of the problems and we will continue to monitor it before we release an final product for the masses. Fwiw, the 3.8L cars in Grand AM are not running oiling assistance. The engine is different. Being that our system costs ~1/5 of what TTP is charging, it might be a good move for adoptors. We would not release a product that did not meet or exceed the expectations of the public. I am not arguing with you or "dancing" around anything. Many members can vouch for my and our company's credibility.

Casey Apologies if my email seemed curt. Since first learning of the oiling issue on my 2005 Boxster S I have been spending way too much time trying to find a solution. Not a band-aid, possibility, a 'maybe'.....a SOLUTION. I'm no engineer, but it seems that the problem is well understood, and thus should be solved. It's not rocket science by any stretch. I am trying to avoid following in the path of others, adding a part here and a part there, all for the same underlying problem, yet never really having confidence that it's completely resolved. I'd rather pay the $3K+ for parts that truly, unquestionably resolve the specific issue.....then get on with my life! I am hoping your product (when released - do you have an ETA??) allows folks to do that.....

It is currently being run on ~15 turbo cars across the world... All of those cars, except for 1 are running the standard VOS, which we recommend. All of the oil ingestion issues are fixed on those cars. They are all driven remarkably hard and now we are collecting data. As soon as it is available for public consumption we will make it well known.

Ok Casey.....this statement got me. I was just about to purchase the Mantis deep sump, but it sounds like your [soon to be released] system won't need the deep sump? Correct? If so, I will keep my boxster to street only fun until the part is available. Paranoia has got the better of me and I am running my all-seasons to avoid this oil issue - I drive hard, and the all-seasons are remarkably good (and suitable for the wacky Seattle summer we are having) - F1's Sean

If I understand Casey right, he's saying the VOS itself holds a lot of oil when hard cornering is going on and doesn't return that oil quickly to the engine. -It isnt the fact that it holds a lot of oil, it is the fact that the diaphragm inside of the VOS ruptures causing it to not function correctly. -The Motorsport VOS doesn't allow oil in the intake but it also doesn't return the oil directly to the sump where it can be used by the oiling system. I'm not sure where it actually goes from the VOS if not to the sump. Maybe it's just held inside the VOS? Maybe it's routed through the head before the sump? Casey? -The output on the bottom of the X51 VOS cause the oil to take more steps than necessary before getting to the bottom of the sump, not to mention that the inside of an X51 VOS has multiple chambers... once again causing the oil too much time to return back to the sump. The bigger capacity of the Motorsport VOS and the routing the return oil takes actually can make the oiling issue worse because more oil is trapped in it? (I think?) -Exactly. So now, TPC has this new kit in development that uses the standard VOS and returns the oil to the sump in a direct way so it can be used by the oiling system. Because it gets the oil out of the VOS quickly, the oil doesn't build up there and doesn't get sucked into the air intake. -Correct, you will get more details shortly. Does a deep sump help with the TPC system? It can't hurt. You still have oil collecting in the right side head during hard cornering and braking that's not getting down into the sump. You're still pulling major G's and sloshing what oil is in the sump sideways away from the collector. Having that extra quart of oil capacity can't hurt. -I havent done the research, but i will before we make the formal announcement of our system. Is there any advantage at all to using the Motorsport VOS with your kit? -No, for teh reasons that i have previously stated. Can it be used with your kit? -Sure but not effectively How much extra oil does the Motorsport VOS take out of the sump? Is this why you don't recommend it? -It is the fact that the Oil is retained for a longer period before being returned back into the sump. For the explaining that i have not done i will try to get mike to do a q/a with people that have questions, film it and put it up in the release thread... so if you have other questions, please advise. I apologize if i have made any incorrect statements as I am not the engineer behind this project, however when it is officially released I will make sure that all abilities of the product are clear and easily explained.

Only indirectly related to the oil starvation, air in the oil etc. issues, but does any part of these solutions involve looking at adding cooling capacity to the oil/water system? I'm running my Cayman at altitude (thin air) in, during the summer, pretty hot (100°F) ambient conditions, and under track driving, particularly if one isn't occasionally short shifting to get RPM's down, I've seen the temperature waring light go off. I sure wish for the $70K+ Porsche wants for one of these, they'd considered including an oil temperature and oil pressure gauge in the Cayman 's instrument package - especially now that I hear the car doesn't have a stand alone oil cooler, but rather a water/oil heat exchanger - Is that right?

No, that's not right. We're talking about the Air/Oil SEPARATOR. That's for the positive crankcase ventilation system. It allows air from the crankcase to get back into the intake system and keeps oil out...but because of the boxer configuration combined with high-g cornering, the stock separator can get overwhelmed and allow oil to get sucked into the intake system. Has nothing to do with overheating or cooling the engine. If your car is overheating on track: 1. Check the radiators in front for leaves and debris that collect in front of them and between the A/C condenser and the radiator. I added a set of grills to the front of the car to catch stuff flying in there. You need to clean this out to prevent corrosion as well as loss of cooling. If wet leaves sit in there, you get a nice atmosphere for corrosion. 2. Check coolant level. There is a lot of writing about coolant leakage on these pages. Use Porsche coolant in these cars. It's pink in color. Use it if for no other reason than to give the dealer confidence in your car should a problem ever come up. I'm a big fan of using the same color fluid as stock for this reason. That includes brake fluid, you Super Blue consumers! 3. Turn the A/C off while on track. It robs power from the engine and compromises engine cooling. 4. Verify that your electric cooling fans are all working correctly. 5. Check that your coolant sensor is working right and not grounding somewhere, turning on the light. 6. If you still have an issue, get an auxiliarly engine oil cooler. A known issue is that the power steering system can overheat. I put a power steering oil cooler on my car to prevent this. I have not had any engine overheating. My car has a software change as well as a competition plenum and SpeedArt exhaust . No problems with stock cooling system.

Casey, Any idea when the Kit will be available? I know there are a lot of CS owners (like me) that track their cars and want to try to protect them (as much as you can with a deficient design...I mean the oiling starvation part ). Thanks, rlt

Me too! Wow, I thought this was to be released several months ago Casey? What happened? Was there a change in the design?

I have 10,000 miles on my turbo engine including 19 track days. So far no smoking or oiling issues once the TPC track pack was installed. After toasting one engine that was equipped with a deep sump and motorsports VOS I didn't want to chance another failure so I went with the TTP oilsafe as I feel it addresses one of the root causes. much cheaper than another engine! I considered reinstalling the deep sump, changing rod bolts and swirl pots but Mike L advised me that it wasn't necessary. The car has a TPC 3+ suspension and I run semi slicks (BFG R1). The car pulls major G's in the corners. I can't say that I'll never have another failure but I have a much higher confidence in the engine oiling now.

Any updated about TPC solution ? When will it be in the market?

+1 I recall talking about this with TPC a year ago, and at that point they were "just about to release" the product. Did something go wrong, was the product not able to really fix the issue? Not being pessimistic, but there seems to be obvious demand for a fix, and if indeed the fix worked, then wouldn't it make good business sense to market and sell it to as many boxster/cayman owners with the issue?

Maybe that's a race advantage Better to have everyone else's car to blow up! Seriously though ....very well said! They are two very different parts that could easily be sold individually and help a bunch of people actually go to race events with less fear of engine disaster.

The TTp oil safe & TPC track pack address different issues. The track pack has little benefit for non turbo cars.

diverdog, I know you have firsthand knowledge of what TPC can do. Casey's comments have led me (and others in this thread) to hope that the TPC solution for managing oil in the VOS was one that could benefit our cars. Casey has mentioned several times that a product was going to be made available, we (the buying public) would like to see what the have to offer!

I don't want to speak for TPC, but I think at one time they where investigating a scavenging pump system similar to the TTp system. THe TPC track pack is designed to act as a secondary VOS that helps return oil passed by the standard VOS for turbo cars. Perhaps you can ask for clarification in the TPC forum where they will see it

I took the advice of a previous poster and asked the question in the TPC forum section. It was immediately deleted by Casey from TPC with the message "There is no product so no need for thread". So there we have it.....no option available from TPC unless you also turbo your car. TTP or Accusump are the only viable options for us who don't want to spend $13-15K (including labor) for a turbo upgrade!

I didnt immediately delete. I left the response up for a few hours and then deleted it. We dont distribute the product for all cars and we prefer to install them inhouse. Sorry if i offended you, just didnt want to get anyone's hopes up regarding a product that isnt available. If you have TPC related inquiries about products that arent listed on our site I recommend you call the shop. Casey

Sixisenuff- do you still have your 987.1 ? I am interested in the TTP dual scavenger pump, but its only available in Germany. No us company makes this pump including LN, which discontinued it last year. So, for basically $3000. to buy and have it installed in my right head, at least that issue is solved. I am also having a GT3 997 oil/water exchanger installed and a GT3 997 center radiator installed as well. I have a Porsche Motorsports 987.1 AOS and a LN 2 qt deep sump/windage tray. I believe that these modifications should see this car through its track days as long as I dont over rev in a missed downshift. Let me know your thoughts on the TTP product as I will have to order it. Hopefully someone at TTP/Germany can speak English. Cantrell Motor Sports will install it, but they will leave the sourcing to me. Thanks, Ken