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YOUR RESEARCHBest place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
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Check ims and said leave it alone
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Mechanic at that time checked the ims and said leave it alone.
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
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Further, there's never been a single report of an LN Engineering IMS product (of any variety) "barfing" when it was installed by a Certified Installer.
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
Install eps ims bearing
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When I had my 996 and had to open the engine because the chain rail went I installed the EPS ims bearing .
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
Install on mine and never even considered another option
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LN was installed on mine and never even considered another option after doing research.
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
Install within a couple of weeks
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Yes, I bought my car and the Solution was installed within a couple of weeks.
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
Install by a certified installer
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Further, there's never been a single report of an LN Engineering IMS product (of any variety) "barfing" when it was installed by a Certified Installer.
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
Recommend solution
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Suggestion
On the opposite side of the spectrum is the Solution, I would recommend the Solution because IF failure occurs, it is the ONLY ONE that will not be dramatic, all the others fail in a spectacular fashion when they have a come-apart..
Best place to buy an ims? LN vs EPS vs pelican bearing
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Planning on opening up my 911 next week for some maintenance. Figure ill do the ims while the trannys dropped.
Seems like everyone goes with either
LN retrofit
LN Solution ( Too $$ for me and even though i like the design and idea of lifetime it doesn't make sense with my planned limited use )
EPS - roller bearing
MB motorsports - roller bearing
or the stock replacement one from pelican. PEL-IMS-1
is the LN really worth 4 times the price? I don't plan on keeping this car for more than 3 or 4 years.
which is the best place to buy? Im located in canada.
which is the best place to buy? Im in canada and noticed some sites dont ship to canada.
Have you done any research? This is a pretty crazy question. If you are doing it yourself, buy the
LN Solution
and install. Your resale value when you sell will more than cover the cost.
Thanks for the headache 🙃
LN is the bearing of choice and its also sponsors this forum.
EPS also seems good.
Pelican bearing works well too but maybe not as long as others.
Back to where i started.
The Pelican bearing is also an LN design for them specifically as a frugal alternative.
On the opposite side of the spectrum is the Solution, I would recommend the Solution because IF failure occurs, it is the ONLY ONE that will not be dramatic, all the others fail in a spectacular fashion when they have a come-apart..
i asked about the solution at a local shop.. quoted me 4500! Ouch ill pass.
Interesting that the pelican bearing is a LN design. Cant find much info on it.
If you love the car, the IMS Solution is the only product that put these cars on the level of the Mezgers. The other bearings can and will fail. The plain oil-fed bearing will outlast all of them and to date, LN has never a report of a failed IMS Solution. It's worth every penny IMHO.
The engine will need a rebuild long before any other non DOF bearings fails.
my car has 80 k miles and has the orginal bearikg still chugging away. No metal flakes in the filter.
They recommend 75kmiles for LN and and 40k miles on the Pelican bearing.
if i do max 7k miles a year on the car for the next 4 years. Keep up with frequent oil changes, i dont see the need for the DOF. Why not just put new bearing now(either ln or pelican) and worry about replacing it when my clutch is due in multiple years.
This is what you asked for "is the LN really worth 4 times the price? I dont plan on keeping this car for more than 3 or 4 years." Folks have given you an opinion on what's the best option weighing worth/resale value. I agree with the consensus. Install the solution and be done with it. It can be re-used during the rebuild process, it doesn't wear out or have a change interval.
When I had my 996 and had to open the engine because the chain rail went I installed the EPS ims bearing . Great price, worked great, and fantastic support from them. Go with EPS!!
If you understand the difference between "The Solution" and the rest of the bearings, the big difference is NOT "DOF"... In fact, go back and figure out the difference between "DOF" and the oil feed on "The Solution" and maybe you'll notice another difference... Reading comprehension is the key here
They're all popular, which is why you've listed them. Who they are popular to is subjective and you'll get people telling you one is better than the other no matter what.
I would say that the LN is the most popular for both the Solution and Retrofit. LN was installed on mine and never even considered another option after doing research.
If needed
, replace the bearing for the updated
OEM
reference bearing. That would be my approach
If you want additional security net, feed it with the Direct Oil Feed (DOF) from
@TuneRS
and that's it
If I read the description of your system correctly, the oil feed come from a cylinder head. Where on the cylinder head does the oil feed come from? One of the scavenger pumps?
updated oem ref bearing as in the pelican bearing? I wasnt able to find other updated oem bearings.
If needed as in.. its leaking frok the bearing? There is play? It appears most people that go aheas and remove the existing bearing replace it with something. Rarely is it put back in. Which makes sense.
This is the new reference for the IMS bearing since 2018 (for the single row) 996.105.085.80
Quite expensive though
https://parts.porscheofannapolis.com...ft-99610508580
Totally a personal opinion, but I don't like "inventions" in such a critical component. There are soooo many workshops out there claiming that their bearing is the best option, that I rather prefer to go with the one used by Porsche.
If you like, you can spray it with fresh oil (with the DOF solution) and that will add an extra level of security.
But this is an "old time" discussion and you will see that almost each individual has his/her different opinion. This is just mine.
First and more import question is, has the motor been prequallified for an IMSB retrofit?
You can pay now or pay later...The LN Solution will repay you come resale, the others will have to be done again at some point down the road and a smart buyer will negotiate the price for it..
I'd go with the third choice the EPS bearing direct from them.
http://www.imsbearingsolution.com/ims-bearing-upgrade
1997-2004 (M96 ENGINE)
Part No:
99610590102EPS
Price:
$579.00
Your L&N barfed, so that mean you had or DIY rebuild the engine, and you were going to tell why your L&N barfed on your motor, or did something else failed, maybe share with us why few engine builders told you why not to use L&N and use the EPS instead.? We all like to hear the reason.
LN offers several different IMS products. They also manufacture the bearing used in the Pelican kit, as well as the RND Engines cylindrical roller bearing.
Identifying something as the "LN Bearing" is too broad. Never confuse the LN IMS Solution product with anything else, there's been ZERO experiences of these "barfing". I'd know if they had.
Further, there's never been a single report of an LN Engineering IMS product (of any variety) "barfing" when it was installed by a Certified Installer. This is because the program mandates pre- qualification, to ensure the engine is healthy, and has not suffered a prior bearing failure; resulting in debris laden oil.
With thousands of shops worldwide (the majority of which have no training) installing these bearings as quickly as possible, its a wonder that more failure reports do not occur. When I stepped away from the IMS world, I did so because I was unwilling to just allow anyone to do the work. My mandate was that ONLY trained, Certified Installers that had something to lose if they made a mistake would be allowed access to these components. As the Inventor of the technology, and procedures it mattered to me more than anyone else.
I don't make a good team player, so I left. I am glad that I did.
The moral of the story is to seek out a Certified Installer, and if you are going to do the job, use a genuine IMS Solution. Remove the ball bearing, and remove the problem.
Thanks Jake!
Im Torn between the pelican PEL-IMS-1 (made by LN) or the LN retrofit.
Im looking at about 800$CAN difference in price. Was quoted $300 for Pelican vs. 1100 for LN Retrofit.
Considering I don't plan on driving more that 5-7000km a year. and id never go past 5000-6000km on oilchanges.
Either one will likely outlast my ownership. and to add my clutch only has about 15000km on it so I have multiple years before i need to Drop the tranny again.
Found this article very helpful.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...ft_Bearing.htm
I picked up the LN Pro retrofit dual row on EBay for ~$611. It was "new" but open box from LN directly. Only thing is that they won't rent you their tools when buying at the discounted rate.But it is still guaranteed.
CARiD.com
has some good prices listed for LN Engineering kits
LN Dual Row Solution/ Oil Feed Kit $1,297.62
Single Row Solution/Oil Feed Kit $1,437
IMS Retrofit Bearing Kit Dual Row $672.38
IMS Retrofit Bearing Kit Single Row Pro $671.38
$7.50 Shipping
CARiD Web Site
I hope prices are allowed, if not I'll remove them.
The problem with buying from these sorts of places is you may receive a kit that has been returned. It would not have been returned due to a problem, but it could have been robbed of parts before it was returned, or someone pulled. fast one, and stuck a used bearing back in the box before returning it. This is usually because someone bought the wrong kit, (single row, when the car needed a dual row, or etc) but there are cases where shops have been busted buying from these types of discount places, just so they could pull a fast one.
The major outlets that sell the LN products (that are not just drop shippers) are required to send any returned IMS products to LN to be inspected, before they will issue a credit for the return. This is to ensure that someone didn't rob pieces, or put old parts, or damaged parts due to a botched IMS Retrofit job back into the box, for unsuspecting people to buy. When these places receive a return, they have no idea what it is supposed to look like, because they are just parts sellers, and that's why you get the dirt cheap pricing.
All the LN products are in sealed boxes. If you buy a product that has the seal broken, do not use it, and call the supplier immediately, after you document the instance with video.
Nothing against a good deal, just realize that you will get what you pay for, when it comes to tool rental, tech support, and the possibility of getting something that was returned, without knowing it.
Read from post #492 and some 10-20 forward:
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...his-first.html
In short: Nothing is as reliable and proven as the original bearing. Replace with same type. There are several posts here on the forum of failed aftermarket bearings, search.
^^this dissregarding resale value, just looking at reliable and proven. Maybe at some point people will realise this also...
So basically you're advising the OP to put a factory IMS ball bearing back in the car because of what? You feel the factory had it right all along?
Then, based on your logic would it be wise to put the factory IMS plain bearing that is found in the 996 Turbo and GT2/3 back in these cars, correct? I have yet to hear of IMS bearing failure from those guys.
I would only buy from LN Engineering, or Charles' eBay account.
But I own the tools, so I don't need to rent them.
I would only install The IMS Soluton.
Anything else is too much of a compromise.
I agree the original Porsche IMS bearing is the most proven...to FAIL!
The IMS Solution is the most reliable!
I won't install anything else but The IMS Solution.
Anything else is a risky compromise.(Even IMS Retrofits from LN)
Fix it once, fix it right...never worry again!
I am trying to figure out why not always do the Solution. It is $1000 more than the other LN bearings. If you keep the car forever, then you never have to change it. If you sell the car, there is never a doubt if it is actually installed because you can see it right underneath the car.
Labour is very close to the same Solution or an LN bearing. It all has to come apart. Couple of hours more for the Solution if that. So, in the end, is a 996 with the Solution worth $2000 more, everything being equal?
Just my opinion. Yes, I bought my car and the Solution was installed within a couple of weeks. Wasn't cheap. Did the clutch, flywheel, RMS, AOS, water pump at the same time. Factored it into the price of the car. Car had 45000 miles at the time.
The explanation to my opinion is in the thread I linked above, read it.
TexSquirrle: When we talk reliability I guess we talk about something which is very unlikely to break. So, how do we know that the IMS solution doesn't break or damage other parts of the engine? I haven't read about anyone put any serious miles on one. It's marketing in my eyes. Doesn't mean it's bad, not at all, just that it's not proven...and very expensive. The original bearing is less than 20 USD. That's the price of a good bearing, you don't get more by paying more. The probable cause why the original fails I've written in the IMS thread and why it's wise to just inspect and maybe replace it with the same type.
My IMS Solution has 50K miles on it.
But just wait, I plan to put lots and lots of more miles on it.
I'd bet that someone has 100K+++ miles on one.
Maybe they will chime in.
I know that Jake Raby torture tested several versions before deciding on the final design.
If Jake can't break it, I'm going to have a heck of a time breaking it.
The solution concept came from the Mezger engine used in the GT2 GT3 and TT P-car, and they use a intermediate shaft to drive the camshafts, never heard an issue with those car on the IMS bearing. I heard Jake even say while researching the solution and trying to kill the engine they remove the oil feed line and it still continue to perform like it suppose to.
I have the IMS Solution in two of my 996's.
I will be putting it in my third 996 I just picked up.
Why? Because the cost of the IMS Solution is trivial compared to the cost of a trashed engine. Sure, there may be other modes of failure. But, if I can permanently eliminate one failure (the most probable failure that can occur) then why wouldn't I?
Correct. Only with retail purchases directly from the LN website are tool rentals offered for a small fee for Retrofit kits and at no charge for the IMS Solution.
The Pelican kit is not an LN design however it is true that we do manufacture it for Pelican Parts exclusively and have for many years. Design and install process as outlined in Wayne's project book was of his own creation that we assisted with. His recommended service interval for the bearing was three years of 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Pelican kit is a very low cost option that requires minimal tools and intended for use by the DIY enthusiast. The kit requires you to clean and reuse the original IMS flange during the installation and includes the equivalent to the factory 6204 bearing that we source directly from Japan. Center stud has been upgraded and a provision for sealing the flange has been added as the o-ring for the center stud is no longer part of that piece, for obvious strength reasons. Hope this post clears that up. More information can be found in the aforementioned Boxster and 996 books put out by Wayne many years ago, some portions of which you can read on the Pelican website.
thanks for the feedback.
Strange how they dont mention 36k or 3 years in the description. In some of the reviews i see 40 k miles change interval.
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELIMS1.htm?pn=PEL-IMS-1&bt=Y&fs=0&SVSVSI=905
Since its been in production for years. Have you had any reported issues? Failures? Or aslong as its maintained as recommended it does the job.
I have not heard of any failures or received any calls, however as it's not our product and we do not provide the support or warranty for it, that would be a question best suited for someone at Pelican Parts.
good to know!
the article does mention the following. 30 to 45 during clutch changes. Thing is alot of people wait a lot longer for clutches. Or until the rms leaks
This is just an opinion, but if the car needs a clutch at 30k somebody is driving it wrong or way too much time on a race track! Holy crap...uh I mean Wow!
my thoughts exactly. Mine was done at 110 000km by previous owner.and it was still fine.
Mechanic at that time checked the ims and said leave it alone. Wish they just did it so I wouldn't have to!
We see most clutch in these cars at, or very near the end of their life at 30-35K. By this point the pressure plate is usually packed with wear debris, and is much stiffer than it should be, as a result. This tends to make people release the clutch faster than they should.
Just to clarify since we do get calls about this regularly, the Pelican kit was a collaboration between Pelican Parts and LN that uses the original factory sealed single row IMS bearing. We just source the bearing and manufacture the components that go into the Pelican kit to their specification. It's supported and warrantied by Pelican Parts, not LN Engineering.
Back to the original poster's question, for DIY guys, LN does offer free tool rental along with the rear main seal tool, which is something that you should factor into the overall cost of a replacement
Porsche ims bearing kit
.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
